Patriots being investigated after Colts game (6 Viewers)

[Run It Up]

So Bill Nye (alleged science guy but confirmed Seahawks fan) posted a video attempting to refute Belichick's explanation of the Deflategate hypothesis.

Unfortunately for Nye he makes two glaring mistakes that accidentally end up proving both Belichick AND tom Brady's points!

First, he says "imagine you are in a sweaty lockeroom that is 80dF and you inflate the footballs...then you move them to a field at 51dF" He then states that this change of approximately 30dF would result in "about a 6% change" [in psi] and that ZING "you'd be off by a factor of 2.5!" Here the 2.5 factor refers to a 2psi change being a 15% difference (6% x 2.5=15%). The problem is that he is making the same miscalculation that Neil deGrasse Tyson made (and recently retracted/corrected) of using gauge pressure instead of absolute pressure. Interestingly, when you use the correct pressure calcs, the 2 psi diff is actually a 7% diff and thus pretty close to the stated 6% diff that he can explain with the30dF temperature drop. Furthermore, it is VERY VERY far away from the "off by a factor of 2.5"...which is again is undoubtedly is the incorrect 15% that Tyson was first using.

Second, at the end of the video the timer goes off and he says "we just got this ball out of the fridge" at 51dF. He squeezes the ball and declares that it is "pretty much the same!!!" But since we know the ideal gas law has reduced the pressure in that ball by about 1.5psi we now have a debunker who is declaring that Tom Brady is correct in being unable to tell the impact that a small drop in psi has on a football.

Here is the video for any who care to watch Nye disprove everything he thought he was proving.

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2015/1/27/7921727/bill-nye-explains-deflategate-video

More than Nye says the Patriots science is way off:http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24997479/neil-degrasse-tyson-science-from-belichick-patriots-doesnt-add-up

Welcome to yesterday, today NDT admitted he was wrong.

Right! He corrected to say the temperature needed to be greater than a mere 90 degrees!So, to summarize, Patriots fans' latest theory is that the balls were inflated at Brady's grandmas house where she has the heat turned up to 95.

No, they were heated using friction, which the Pats openly admitted to, on Friday, last week.

Exactly, 1 psi is attributable to the weather (assume a 70dF locker room and 50dF field). The other psi (assuming mort is right and there is another psi) belichick attributes to the friction from the ball prep process which Tango rightly notes would need to raise the internal temp close to 90dF. Can a machine rubbing the exterior of the ball raise the internal temp to 90dF? No idea, but IMO THAT is the experiment that the NFL needs to run to prove/disprove this.Alternately, it appears that smart labs is making a case that a wet ball will expand and thus the psi will decrease in the process so there is that possibility as well, but BB clearly stated that their ball prep process raised the psi by 1 so that is where I would start if I were the nfl. But then gain, I probably would have contacted brady so wtf do I know (sarcasm alert)!

Here's the problem of the 1 psi rubbing theory: it assumes the pats rubbed their balls immediately before delivering to the refs at precicely 2:15 before kickoff. Does that make sense to anyone? If you were the equipment manager for the Pats, in charge of delivering game balls for the biggest game of the season, would you wait until the exact last minute?I wouldn't. I'd have it done a few days early to give Mr. Brady a chance to feel my balls in advance, just to make sure they were to his liking. That's just me though.

If the balls were rubbed more than an hour prior to ball inspection, they likely would have acclimated to room temp, which means that 1 psi is still unaccounted for.

They were instructed to inflate them to 12.5 psi. If they did that before the balls had reached equilibrium they would be underinflated before even touching the field. Which combined with the 1.8-1.9 psi drop attributed to the elements more than accounts for this.

 

[mbuehner]

None of the rubbing matters- the latest sources say all the balls not handled by the Colts were closer to 1psi, the temperature and rain can for up to 1.5 without question.

And there is no competing science- when gauge pressure is accounted for the final internal pressure is directly dependent on the final temperature. Nobody disputes that. Except idiots.

 

[KarmaPolice]

THEY DID IT. What on earth is so hard to figure out about this?

If I were on a jury, I've seen/heard enough to vote "guilty". Brady was pretty obviously lying. Kraft's bravado seemed completely disingenuous. The fact is the balls were good at game time and not at halftime. Period.

You all bringing all this science bullcrap into this remind me of OJ's attorneys when they went out of their way to confuse the jury with nonsensical arguments about DNA and it's validity and they threw off the jury from looking at the most logical outcome - that he did in fact kill his ex wife. For real. The whole gas laws, blah blah blah reminds me exactly of the strategy his attorneys used.

But like then, I suspect it will work again when the most logical answer is that they did it, just like OJ did. I certainly am not comparing this to a murder, just the strategy.

sweet jesus, i hope if i am ever on trial for something you are not in the jury then. No need for science when you have a built in lie detector!

When the science can be argued many ways, such as is the case here, and was the case with the DNA in the OJ case, I tend to throw it all out and go back to what my common sense tells me. I've read this thread up one side and down the other

THEY DID IT. What on earth is so hard to figure out about this?

If I were on a jury, I've seen/heard enough to vote "guilty". Brady was pretty obviously lying. Kraft's bravado seemed completely disingenuous. The fact is the balls were good at game time and not at halftime. Period.

You all bringing all this science bullcrap into this remind me of OJ's attorneys when they went out of their way to confuse the jury with nonsensical arguments about DNA and it's validity and they threw off the jury from looking at the most logical outcome - that he did in fact kill his ex wife. For real. The whole gas laws, blah blah blah reminds me exactly of the strategy his attorneys used.

But like then, I suspect it will work again when the most logical answer is that they did it, just like OJ did. I certainly am not comparing this to a murder, just the strategy.

sweet jesus, i hope if i am ever on trial for something you are not in the jury then. No need for science when you have a built in lie detector!

I hear you. I do. But there does not appear to be any real consensus that the balls can be scientifically explained to have lost the psi. If there were, then this whole issue would be over. The fact that isn't tells me that science is being bandied about as theories which brings me back to the logical explanation that the air was taken out deliberately. I got the sense Brady was lying the first time I heard him talk on the matter and again in his press conference. The Pats have a history. Too much is adding up to my sense of common sense to be coincidence. What I believe to be true is my default when I am not convinced otherwise and the only thing I've seen with the science so far is speculation.

well then imo your logic needs some adjustments since:

- the ballboy purposely taking the air out of the balls on the way to the field in a couple makes little sense.

- the patriots have no more of s history than the other 31 teams in the league of wrongdoing

- you called it "science bullcrap"

 

[the moops]

But there does not appear to be any real consensus that the balls can be scientifically explained to have lost the psi.

jesus ####### Christ dude

 

[mbuehner]

THEY DID IT. What on earth is so hard to figure out about this?

If I were on a jury, I've seen/heard enough to vote "guilty". Brady was pretty obviously lying. Kraft's bravado seemed completely disingenuous. The fact is the balls were good at game time and not at halftime. Period.

You all bringing all this science bullcrap into this remind me of OJ's attorneys when they went out of their way to confuse the jury with nonsensical arguments about DNA and it's validity and they threw off the jury from looking at the most logical outcome - that he did in fact kill his ex wife. For real. The whole gas laws, blah blah blah reminds me exactly of the strategy his attorneys used.

But like then, I suspect it will work again when the most logical answer is that they did it, just like OJ did. I certainly am not comparing this to a murder, just the strategy.

sweet jesus, i hope if i am ever on trial for something you are not in the jury then. No need for science when you have a built in lie detector!

He doesn't need facts or the truth. They just get in the way of his gut feelings.

THEY DID IT. What on earth is so hard to figure out about this?

If I were on a jury, I've seen/heard enough to vote "guilty". Brady was pretty obviously lying. Kraft's bravado seemed completely disingenuous. The fact is the balls were good at game time and not at halftime. Period.

You all bringing all this science bullcrap into this remind me of OJ's attorneys when they went out of their way to confuse the jury with nonsensical arguments about DNA and it's validity and they threw off the jury from looking at the most logical outcome - that he did in fact kill his ex wife. For real. The whole gas laws, blah blah blah reminds me exactly of the strategy his attorneys used.

But like then, I suspect it will work again when the most logical answer is that they did it, just like OJ did. I certainly am not comparing this to a murder, just the strategy.

Now imagine that all the information you had to base your decision on was whispered to you by a random guy on the street rather than testimony in the trial.

Huh? Not sure I follow.

That cant be an usual sensation for you.

Actually it is. You may think my opinion is idiotic and that's ok. I think the same of yours. We good?

Not really. I have equations, you have your gut. Got any lucky numbers for this week?

 

[shader]

When you guys start acting smart and running your own calculations, I hope you realize how meaningless it is. If any of you think the refs accurately measure these balls down to the tenths of a decimal point....

 

[GoBirds]

Why are we still talking about this? I thought it was over when BB dropped the mic on Saturday.

Dead issue according to some of the threads all stars.

This will be good comedy looking back on these science excuses I have a feeling.

 

[espnespn]

So Bill Nye (alleged science guy but confirmed Seahawks fan) posted a video attempting to refute Belichick's explanation of the Deflategate hypothesis.

Unfortunately for Nye he makes two glaring mistakes that accidentally end up proving both Belichick AND tom Brady's points!

First, he says "imagine you are in a sweaty lockeroom that is 80dF and you inflate the footballs...then you move them to a field at 51dF" He then states that this change of approximately 30dF would result in "about a 6% change" [in psi] and that ZING "you'd be off by a factor of 2.5!" Here the 2.5 factor refers to a 2psi change being a 15% difference (6% x 2.5=15%). The problem is that he is making the same miscalculation that Neil deGrasse Tyson made (and recently retracted/corrected) of using gauge pressure instead of absolute pressure. Interestingly, when you use the correct pressure calcs, the 2 psi diff is actually a 7% diff and thus pretty close to the stated 6% diff that he can explain with the30dF temperature drop. Furthermore, it is VERY VERY far away from the "off by a factor of 2.5"...which is again is undoubtedly is the incorrect 15% that Tyson was first using.

Second, at the end of the video the timer goes off and he says "we just got this ball out of the fridge" at 51dF. He squeezes the ball and declares that it is "pretty much the same!!!" But since we know the ideal gas law has reduced the pressure in that ball by about 1.5psi we now have a debunker who is declaring that Tom Brady is correct in being unable to tell the impact that a small drop in psi has on a football.

Here is the video for any who care to watch Nye disprove everything he thought he was proving.

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2015/1/27/7921727/bill-nye-explains-deflategate-video

More than Nye says the Patriots science is way off:http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24997479/neil-degrasse-tyson-science-from-belichick-patriots-doesnt-add-up

It's like a never-ending flood of scientific ignorance.

Please google Ideal Gas Law, plug in the numbers for the calculation, and you can see for yourself that Bill Nye and Neil Tyson screwed up basic math. This is stuff you should have learned in high school! SMH.

Right, greater than 90 degrees. All this does is bury the Pats further.Even the corrections prove the Pats wrong.

Did you even bother to do the calculation yourself? It is not 90 degrees, sorry.

Ha, 90 degrees is in the correction that you referred to. The best article I can find to defer the Patriots is in the Globe where, if you read the article start to finish and ignore out of context comments like "Belichick was exactly right"... You find that they merely agree directionally that deflation may occur around half a pound to a pound and a half.....in the worst case.

Not exactly a ringing endorsement.

The OJ logic being brought into this isn't that silly: most will think they cheated for good (not great) reason, but the question of whether they elude justice due to Marcia Clark's (ie RG's) team running a flawed sting operation is yet to be seen.

Uh no, that was someone else who referred you to the correction. Bill Nye's "correction" is going off the original rumor that all the Patriots balls lost 2 PSI, when the revised rumors say they only lost 1 PSI.

Here's a 2 minute video experiment proving how footballs can lose about 1.8 PSI going from 75 to 50 degrees.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxsXFX3tDpg

 

[General Tso]

Hey, anyone know what the temperature inside the ball boys' bag was? Anyone know how much warmth the hand warmers they can put in the bag add? Were there hand warmers inside the bags at Gillette? Do the balls naturally stay somewhat warmer than air temp by being handled and dried?

What exactly is 'the process' the Pats use that results in the balls being heated before the game? How long does it take? How long do the balls give a temporarily higher reading afterward?

Of course we don't the Pats process. But if you think the Pats are the only team with elaborate ball prep processes, you are grossly mistaken. Google the video showing the process Eli Manning uses. It literally goes on for several weeks and is extremely extensive and costly. Like his brother, he is a fanatic.My guess is that the Pats probably use a process that involves mechanical buffing, but I'm just guessing. I used to shine shoes back in college and ran a buffing machine. Those things can literally burn a shoe if you are not careful. I know because I did it once.

The NFL, and the haters, are going to keep moving the goalposts on this issue. There is nothing in the rules about ball prep procedures. The rule is that the team submits balls for review and the officials are the ones responsible for approving them. Once again, be careful going down this road. You might just bring down Aaron Rodgers, both Mannings, and other QB's as well.

 

[T J]

THEY DID IT. What on earth is so hard to figure out about this?

If I were on a jury, I've seen/heard enough to vote "guilty". Brady was pretty obviously lying. Kraft's bravado seemed completely disingenuous. The fact is the balls were good at game time and not at halftime. Period.

You all bringing all this science bullcrap into this remind me of OJ's attorneys when they went out of their way to confuse the jury with nonsensical arguments about DNA and it's validity and they threw off the jury from looking at the most logical outcome - that he did in fact kill his ex wife. For real. The whole gas laws, blah blah blah reminds me exactly of the strategy his attorneys used.

But like then, I suspect it will work again when the most logical answer is that they did it, just like OJ did. I certainly am not comparing this to a murder, just the strategy.

Now imagine that all the information you had to base your decision on was whispered to you by a random guy on the street rather than testimony in the trial.

Huh? Not sure I follow.

None of the facts in this case so far can be verified, and in fact there are constantly conflicting reports. If you have made your mind up on what has happened already, you are either a Patriots fan who wants this story to be false or a Patriots hater who wants it to be true.A good method of self reflection is, if you are a Patriots fan, to imagine that the Giants were in this exact position (accused of underinflating footballs, possibly for years) and how you would act in this thread. And if you are someone who is convinced the Patriots did this, imagine how you would be acting in this thread if your favorite team were in this position.

If you can do that, you should be able to sympathize with the people you disagree with in this thread and maybe have a little bit less trolling.

I don't intend to troll. I'm not a hater, but definitely not a fan either. I think they did it for sure and I think all these people brining science into it are nuts. I wouldn't think that if the science were consistent, but people on both sides are finding science that supports their opinion. So I go back to what seems the most logical. The Pats deflated the balls. It just cracks me up to see Pats fans go out of their way to try to grasp onto science when it just seems to me they're doing just that - grasping. At least it feels that way when there's a bunch of science going the other way also.

 

[shader]

Why are we still talking about this? I thought it was over when BB dropped the mic on Saturday.

Dead issue according to some of the threads all stars. This will be good comedy looking back on these science excuses I have a feeling.

It is over. There was good debate on here last week.

This week the anti-pats people have been pretty pathetic in their posts, primarily because they no longer have anything to argue, except for back-of-the-napkin calculations by media scientists, and, of course, WHAT ABOUT THE COLTS FOOTBALLS!!!

 

[Morton Muffley]

So Bill Nye (alleged science guy but confirmed Seahawks fan) posted a video attempting to refute Belichick's explanation of the Deflategate hypothesis.

Unfortunately for Nye he makes two glaring mistakes that accidentally end up proving both Belichick AND tom Brady's points!

First, he says "imagine you are in a sweaty lockeroom that is 80dF and you inflate the footballs...then you move them to a field at 51dF" He then states that this change of approximately 30dF would result in "about a 6% change" [in psi] and that ZING "you'd be off by a factor of 2.5!" Here the 2.5 factor refers to a 2psi change being a 15% difference (6% x 2.5=15%). The problem is that he is making the same miscalculation that Neil deGrasse Tyson made (and recently retracted/corrected) of using gauge pressure instead of absolute pressure. Interestingly, when you use the correct pressure calcs, the 2 psi diff is actually a 7% diff and thus pretty close to the stated 6% diff that he can explain with the30dF temperature drop. Furthermore, it is VERY VERY far away from the "off by a factor of 2.5"...which is again is undoubtedly is the incorrect 15% that Tyson was first using.

Second, at the end of the video the timer goes off and he says "we just got this ball out of the fridge" at 51dF. He squeezes the ball and declares that it is "pretty much the same!!!" But since we know the ideal gas law has reduced the pressure in that ball by about 1.5psi we now have a debunker who is declaring that Tom Brady is correct in being unable to tell the impact that a small drop in psi has on a football.

Here is the video for any who care to watch Nye disprove everything he thought he was proving.

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2015/1/27/7921727/bill-nye-explains-deflategate-video

More than Nye says the Patriots science is way off:http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24997479/neil-degrasse-tyson-science-from-belichick-patriots-doesnt-add-up

Welcome to yesterday, today NDT admitted he was wrong.

Right! He corrected to say the temperature needed to be greater than a mere 90 degrees!So, to summarize, Patriots fans' latest theory is that the balls were inflated at Brady's grandmas house where she has the heat turned up to 95.

No, they were heated using friction, which the Pats openly admitted to, on Friday, last week.

Exactly, 1 psi is attributable to the weather (assume a 70dF locker room and 50dF field). The other psi (assuming mort is right and there is another psi) belichick attributes to the friction from the ball prep process which Tango rightly notes would need to raise the internal temp close to 90dF. Can a machine rubbing the exterior of the ball raise the internal temp to 90dF? No idea, but IMO THAT is the experiment that the NFL needs to run to prove/disprove this.Alternately, it appears that smart labs is making a case that a wet ball will expand and thus the psi will decrease in the process so there is that possibility as well, but BB clearly stated that their ball prep process raised the psi by 1 so that is where I would start if I were the nfl. But then gain, I probably would have contacted brady so wtf do I know (sarcasm alert)!

Here's the problem of the 1 psi rubbing theory: it assumes the pats rubbed their balls immediately before delivering to the refs at precicely 2:15 before kickoff. Does that make sense to anyone? If you were the equipment manager for the Pats, in charge of delivering game balls for the biggest game of the season, would you wait until the exact last minute?I wouldn't. I'd have it done a few days early to give Mr. Brady a chance to feel my balls in advance, just to make sure they were to his liking. That's just me though.

If the balls were rubbed more than an hour prior to ball inspection, they likely would have acclimated to room temp, which means that 1 psi is still unaccounted for.

Moleculo

Here's what I think happened and if you listen to belichick's Saturday morning pressed you will hear him setting this up:

If the patriots rub the balls down and then immediately set the psi to 12.5...unknowing that the internal air temp is now around 90dF then the balls will sit and come to equilibrium at an assumed 70dF room temp. Thus the balls will now be at 11.5 psi. But the patriots already finished their process so there is no reason for them to check the psi again. So in all likelihood I think the patriots were submitting balls with something close to an 11.5psi because I think (as you seem to imply) that they would somewhat quickly fall back to room temp.

This is why belichick made a point of saying "we ask the refs to set them at 12.5" because he is likely knows that the patriots process caused them (intentionally for the haters; unintentionally for the fanboys) to submit balls below 12.5 psi. The nfl rule book states that the refs are the sole arbiters of what constitutes of legal ball so TECHNICALLY the patriots could have submitted wholly uninflected balls and if the refs passed them then they would be considered "legal". If I am correct then suspect the NFL's findings will largely focus on intent to deceive.

 

[T J]

But there does not appear to be any real consensus that the balls can be scientifically explained to have lost the psi.

jesus ####### Christ dude

Really? Then why is even still an issue? Why isn't the case closed? Real question.

 

[AB in DC]

If I were on a jury, I've seen/heard enough to vote "guilty".

If you were on a jury, nothing you've seen or heard would be admissible in court. Hearsay and all that.

 

[shader]

So Bill Nye (alleged science guy but confirmed Seahawks fan) posted a video attempting to refute Belichick's explanation of the Deflategate hypothesis.

Unfortunately for Nye he makes two glaring mistakes that accidentally end up proving both Belichick AND tom Brady's points!

First, he says "imagine you are in a sweaty lockeroom that is 80dF and you inflate the footballs...then you move them to a field at 51dF" He then states that this change of approximately 30dF would result in "about a 6% change" [in psi] and that ZING "you'd be off by a factor of 2.5!" Here the 2.5 factor refers to a 2psi change being a 15% difference (6% x 2.5=15%). The problem is that he is making the same miscalculation that Neil deGrasse Tyson made (and recently retracted/corrected) of using gauge pressure instead of absolute pressure. Interestingly, when you use the correct pressure calcs, the 2 psi diff is actually a 7% diff and thus pretty close to the stated 6% diff that he can explain with the30dF temperature drop. Furthermore, it is VERY VERY far away from the "off by a factor of 2.5"...which is again is undoubtedly is the incorrect 15% that Tyson was first using.

Second, at the end of the video the timer goes off and he says "we just got this ball out of the fridge" at 51dF. He squeezes the ball and declares that it is "pretty much the same!!!" But since we know the ideal gas law has reduced the pressure in that ball by about 1.5psi we now have a debunker who is declaring that Tom Brady is correct in being unable to tell the impact that a small drop in psi has on a football.

Here is the video for any who care to watch Nye disprove everything he thought he was proving.

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2015/1/27/7921727/bill-nye-explains-deflategate-video

More than Nye says the Patriots science is way off:http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24997479/neil-degrasse-tyson-science-from-belichick-patriots-doesnt-add-up

It's like a never-ending flood of scientific ignorance.

Please google Ideal Gas Law, plug in the numbers for the calculation, and you can see for yourself that Bill Nye and Neil Tyson screwed up basic math. This is stuff you should have learned in high school! SMH.

Right, greater than 90 degrees. All this does is bury the Pats further.Even the corrections prove the Pats wrong.

Did you even bother to do the calculation yourself? It is not 90 degrees, sorry.

Ha, 90 degrees is in the correction that you referred to. The best article I can find to defer the Patriots is in the Globe where, if you read the article start to finish and ignore out of context comments like "Belichick was exactly right"... You find that they merely agree directionally that deflation may occur around half a pound to a pound and a half.....in the worst case.Not exactly a ringing endorsement.

The OJ logic being brought into this isn't that silly: most will think they cheated for good (not great) reason, but the question of whether they elude justice due to Marcia Clark's (ie RG's) team running a flawed sting operation is yet to be seen.

Uh no, that was someone else who referred you to the correction. Bill Nye's "correction" is going off the original rumor that all the Patriots balls lost 2 PSI, when the revised rumors say they only lost 1 PSI.

Here's a 2 minute video experiment proving how footballs can lose about 1.8 PSI going from 75 to 50 degrees.

No one is interested in actual science experiments anymore. We want mathematical equations that fit our preconceived notions.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

THEY DID IT. What on earth is so hard to figure out about this?

If I were on a jury, I've seen/heard enough to vote "guilty". Brady was pretty obviously lying. Kraft's bravado seemed completely disingenuous. The fact is the balls were good at game time and not at halftime. Period.

You all bringing all this science bullcrap into this remind me of OJ's attorneys when they went out of their way to confuse the jury with nonsensical arguments about DNA and it's validity and they threw off the jury from looking at the most logical outcome - that he did in fact kill his ex wife. For real. The whole gas laws, blah blah blah reminds me exactly of the strategy his attorneys used.

But like then, I suspect it will work again when the most logical answer is that they did it, just like OJ did. I certainly am not comparing this to a murder, just the strategy.

Just when i didnt think this thread could get any stranger , along comes T J

 

[moleculo]

So Bill Nye (alleged science guy but confirmed Seahawks fan) posted a video attempting to refute Belichick's explanation of the Deflategate hypothesis.

Unfortunately for Nye he makes two glaring mistakes that accidentally end up proving both Belichick AND tom Brady's points!

First, he says "imagine you are in a sweaty lockeroom that is 80dF and you inflate the footballs...then you move them to a field at 51dF" He then states that this change of approximately 30dF would result in "about a 6% change" [in psi] and that ZING "you'd be off by a factor of 2.5!" Here the 2.5 factor refers to a 2psi change being a 15% difference (6% x 2.5=15%). The problem is that he is making the same miscalculation that Neil deGrasse Tyson made (and recently retracted/corrected) of using gauge pressure instead of absolute pressure. Interestingly, when you use the correct pressure calcs, the 2 psi diff is actually a 7% diff and thus pretty close to the stated 6% diff that he can explain with the30dF temperature drop. Furthermore, it is VERY VERY far away from the "off by a factor of 2.5"...which is again is undoubtedly is the incorrect 15% that Tyson was first using.

Second, at the end of the video the timer goes off and he says "we just got this ball out of the fridge" at 51dF. He squeezes the ball and declares that it is "pretty much the same!!!" But since we know the ideal gas law has reduced the pressure in that ball by about 1.5psi we now have a debunker who is declaring that Tom Brady is correct in being unable to tell the impact that a small drop in psi has on a football.

Here is the video for any who care to watch Nye disprove everything he thought he was proving.

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2015/1/27/7921727/bill-nye-explains-deflategate-video

More than Nye says the Patriots science is way off:http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24997479/neil-degrasse-tyson-science-from-belichick-patriots-doesnt-add-up

Welcome to yesterday, today NDT admitted he was wrong.

Right! He corrected to say the temperature needed to be greater than a mere 90 degrees!So, to summarize, Patriots fans' latest theory is that the balls were inflated at Brady's grandmas house where she has the heat turned up to 95.

No, they were heated using friction, which the Pats openly admitted to, on Friday, last week.

Exactly, 1 psi is attributable to the weather (assume a 70dF locker room and 50dF field). The other psi (assuming mort is right and there is another psi) belichick attributes to the friction from the ball prep process which Tango rightly notes would need to raise the internal temp close to 90dF. Can a machine rubbing the exterior of the ball raise the internal temp to 90dF? No idea, but IMO THAT is the experiment that the NFL needs to run to prove/disprove this.Alternately, it appears that smart labs is making a case that a wet ball will expand and thus the psi will decrease in the process so there is that possibility as well, but BB clearly stated that their ball prep process raised the psi by 1 so that is where I would start if I were the nfl. But then gain, I probably would have contacted brady so wtf do I know (sarcasm alert)!

Here's the problem of the 1 psi rubbing theory: it assumes the pats rubbed their balls immediately before delivering to the refs at precicely 2:15 before kickoff. Does that make sense to anyone? If you were the equipment manager for the Pats, in charge of delivering game balls for the biggest game of the season, would you wait until the exact last minute?I wouldn't. I'd have it done a few days early to give Mr. Brady a chance to feel my balls in advance, just to make sure they were to his liking. That's just me though.

If the balls were rubbed more than an hour prior to ball inspection, they likely would have acclimated to room temp, which means that 1 psi is still unaccounted for.

They were instructed to inflate them to 12.5 psi. If they did that before the balls had reached equilibrium they would be underinflated before even touching the field. Which combined with the 1.8-1.9 psi drop attributed to the elements more than accounts for this.

Exactly. Does it stand to reason that the balls had not yet reached equilibrium? I don't think it does.

 

[T J]

THEY DID IT. What on earth is so hard to figure out about this?

If I were on a jury, I've seen/heard enough to vote "guilty". Brady was pretty obviously lying. Kraft's bravado seemed completely disingenuous. The fact is the balls were good at game time and not at halftime. Period.

You all bringing all this science bullcrap into this remind me of OJ's attorneys when they went out of their way to confuse the jury with nonsensical arguments about DNA and it's validity and they threw off the jury from looking at the most logical outcome - that he did in fact kill his ex wife. For real. The whole gas laws, blah blah blah reminds me exactly of the strategy his attorneys used.

But like then, I suspect it will work again when the most logical answer is that they did it, just like OJ did. I certainly am not comparing this to a murder, just the strategy.

sweet jesus, i hope if i am ever on trial for something you are not in the jury then. No need for science when you have a built in lie detector!

He doesn't need facts or the truth. They just get in the way of his gut feelings.

THEY DID IT. What on earth is so hard to figure out about this?

If I were on a jury, I've seen/heard enough to vote "guilty". Brady was pretty obviously lying. Kraft's bravado seemed completely disingenuous. The fact is the balls were good at game time and not at halftime. Period.

You all bringing all this science bullcrap into this remind me of OJ's attorneys when they went out of their way to confuse the jury with nonsensical arguments about DNA and it's validity and they threw off the jury from looking at the most logical outcome - that he did in fact kill his ex wife. For real. The whole gas laws, blah blah blah reminds me exactly of the strategy his attorneys used.

But like then, I suspect it will work again when the most logical answer is that they did it, just like OJ did. I certainly am not comparing this to a murder, just the strategy.

Now imagine that all the information you had to base your decision on was whispered to you by a random guy on the street rather than testimony in the trial.

Huh? Not sure I follow.

That cant be an usual sensation for you.

Actually it is. You may think my opinion is idiotic and that's ok. I think the same of yours. We good?

Not really. I have equations, you have your gut. Got any lucky numbers for this week?

Your equations haven't convinced me. I'm still much more comfortable with my gut. What numbers do your equations say to play? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[espnespn]

THEY DID IT. What on earth is so hard to figure out about this?

If I were on a jury, I've seen/heard enough to vote "guilty". Brady was pretty obviously lying. Kraft's bravado seemed completely disingenuous. The fact is the balls were good at game time and not at halftime. Period.

You all bringing all this science bullcrap into this remind me of OJ's attorneys when they went out of their way to confuse the jury with nonsensical arguments about DNA and it's validity and they threw off the jury from looking at the most logical outcome - that he did in fact kill his ex wife. For real. The whole gas laws, blah blah blah reminds me exactly of the strategy his attorneys used.

But like then, I suspect it will work again when the most logical answer is that they did it, just like OJ did. I certainly am not comparing this to a murder, just the strategy.

Now imagine that all the information you had to base your decision on was whispered to you by a random guy on the street rather than testimony in the trial.

Huh? Not sure I follow.

None of the facts in this case so far can be verified, and in fact there are constantly conflicting reports. If you have made your mind up on what has happened already, you are either a Patriots fan who wants this story to be false or a Patriots hater who wants it to be true.A good method of self reflection is, if you are a Patriots fan, to imagine that the Giants were in this exact position (accused of underinflating footballs, possibly for years) and how you would act in this thread. And if you are someone who is convinced the Patriots did this, imagine how you would be acting in this thread if your favorite team were in this position.

If you can do that, you should be able to sympathize with the people you disagree with in this thread and maybe have a little bit less trolling.

I don't intend to troll. I'm not a hater, but definitely not a fan either. I think they did it for sure and I think all these people brining science into it are nuts. I wouldn't think that if the science were consistent, but people on both sides are finding science that supports their opinion. So I go back to what seems the most logical. The Pats deflated the balls. It just cracks me up to see Pats fans go out of their way to try to grasp onto science when it just seems to me they're doing just that - grasping. At least it feels that way when there's a bunch of science going the other way also.

There's a bunch of other science videos that disprove this HeadSmart study? Please feel free to share them with us.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxsXFX3tDpg

 

[Morton Muffley]

So Bill Nye (alleged science guy but confirmed Seahawks fan) posted a video attempting to refute Belichick's explanation of the Deflategate hypothesis.

Unfortunately for Nye he makes two glaring mistakes that accidentally end up proving both Belichick AND tom Brady's points!

First, he says "imagine you are in a sweaty lockeroom that is 80dF and you inflate the footballs...then you move them to a field at 51dF" He then states that this change of approximately 30dF would result in "about a 6% change" [in psi] and that ZING "you'd be off by a factor of 2.5!" Here the 2.5 factor refers to a 2psi change being a 15% difference (6% x 2.5=15%). The problem is that he is making the same miscalculation that Neil deGrasse Tyson made (and recently retracted/corrected) of using gauge pressure instead of absolute pressure. Interestingly, when you use the correct pressure calcs, the 2 psi diff is actually a 7% diff and thus pretty close to the stated 6% diff that he can explain with the30dF temperature drop. Furthermore, it is VERY VERY far away from the "off by a factor of 2.5"...which is again is undoubtedly is the incorrect 15% that Tyson was first using.

Second, at the end of the video the timer goes off and he says "we just got this ball out of the fridge" at 51dF. He squeezes the ball and declares that it is "pretty much the same!!!" But since we know the ideal gas law has reduced the pressure in that ball by about 1.5psi we now have a debunker who is declaring that Tom Brady is correct in being unable to tell the impact that a small drop in psi has on a football.

Here is the video for any who care to watch Nye disprove everything he thought he was proving.

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2015/1/27/7921727/bill-nye-explains-deflategate-video

More than Nye says the Patriots science is way off:http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24997479/neil-degrasse-tyson-science-from-belichick-patriots-doesnt-add-up

It's like a never-ending flood of scientific ignorance.

Please google Ideal Gas Law, plug in the numbers for the calculation, and you can see for yourself that Bill Nye and Neil Tyson screwed up basic math. This is stuff you should have learned in high school! SMH.

Right, greater than 90 degrees. All this does is bury the Pats further. Even the corrections prove the Pats wrong.

Not at all. Just the opposite. You are welcome to show your work disproving that a football inflated indoors at 12.5 will drop well below that threshold when brought outdoors in 50 degree temperatures. Mufflly can provide the exact number.And that doesn't take into account any additional internal temperatures generated from the friction created by the ball prep process. A guy on another forum just did an experiment showing that rubbing the ball for 4 minutes with only his hands increased the psi by .3. And it took 10 minutes for the psi to come back down .3.

It also doesn't take into account any psi reductions as a result of the balls being wet, which we know happens as well.

1 psi for every 20dF temp change...simple as that...except it could be more if rain really did impact the structure of the ball as the smart lab experiment seems to indicate

 

[mbuehner]

So Bill Nye (alleged science guy but confirmed Seahawks fan) posted a video attempting to refute Belichick's explanation of the Deflategate hypothesis.

Unfortunately for Nye he makes two glaring mistakes that accidentally end up proving both Belichick AND tom Brady's points!

First, he says "imagine you are in a sweaty lockeroom that is 80dF and you inflate the footballs...then you move them to a field at 51dF" He then states that this change of approximately 30dF would result in "about a 6% change" [in psi] and that ZING "you'd be off by a factor of 2.5!" Here the 2.5 factor refers to a 2psi change being a 15% difference (6% x 2.5=15%). The problem is that he is making the same miscalculation that Neil deGrasse Tyson made (and recently retracted/corrected) of using gauge pressure instead of absolute pressure. Interestingly, when you use the correct pressure calcs, the 2 psi diff is actually a 7% diff and thus pretty close to the stated 6% diff that he can explain with the30dF temperature drop. Furthermore, it is VERY VERY far away from the "off by a factor of 2.5"...which is again is undoubtedly is the incorrect 15% that Tyson was first using.

Second, at the end of the video the timer goes off and he says "we just got this ball out of the fridge" at 51dF. He squeezes the ball and declares that it is "pretty much the same!!!" But since we know the ideal gas law has reduced the pressure in that ball by about 1.5psi we now have a debunker who is declaring that Tom Brady is correct in being unable to tell the impact that a small drop in psi has on a football.

Here is the video for any who care to watch Nye disprove everything he thought he was proving.

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2015/1/27/7921727/bill-nye-explains-deflategate-video

More than Nye says the Patriots science is way off:http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24997479/neil-degrasse-tyson-science-from-belichick-patriots-doesnt-add-up

It's like a never-ending flood of scientific ignorance.

Please google Ideal Gas Law, plug in the numbers for the calculation, and you can see for yourself that Bill Nye and Neil Tyson screwed up basic math. This is stuff you should have learned in high school! SMH.

Right, greater than 90 degrees. All this does is bury the Pats further.Even the corrections prove the Pats wrong.

Did you even bother to do the calculation yourself? It is not 90 degrees, sorry.

Ha, 90 degrees is in the correction that you referred to. The best article I can find to defer the Patriots is in the Globe where, if you read the article start to finish and ignore out of context comments like "Belichick was exactly right"... You find that they merely agree directionally that deflation may occur around half a pound to a pound and a half.....in the worst case.Not exactly a ringing endorsement.

The OJ logic being brought into this isn't that silly: most will think they cheated for good (not great) reason, but the question of whether they elude justice due to Marcia Clark's (ie RG's) team running a flawed sting operation is yet to be seen.

Uh no, that was someone else who referred you to the correction. Bill Nye's "correction" is going off the original rumor that all the Patriots balls lost 2 PSI, when the revised rumors say they only lost 1 PSI.

Here's a 2 minute video experiment proving how footballs can lose about 1.8 PSI going from 75 to 50 degrees.

But the equations arent even in dispute- they apply to 2 different circumstances, which NDT apologized for mistaking today.

 

[Road Warriors]

So Bill Nye (alleged science guy but confirmed Seahawks fan) posted a video attempting to refute Belichick's explanation of the Deflategate hypothesis.

Unfortunately for Nye he makes two glaring mistakes that accidentally end up proving both Belichick AND tom Brady's points!

First, he says "imagine you are in a sweaty lockeroom that is 80dF and you inflate the footballs...then you move them to a field at 51dF" He then states that this change of approximately 30dF would result in "about a 6% change" [in psi] and that ZING "you'd be off by a factor of 2.5!" Here the 2.5 factor refers to a 2psi change being a 15% difference (6% x 2.5=15%). The problem is that he is making the same miscalculation that Neil deGrasse Tyson made (and recently retracted/corrected) of using gauge pressure instead of absolute pressure. Interestingly, when you use the correct pressure calcs, the 2 psi diff is actually a 7% diff and thus pretty close to the stated 6% diff that he can explain with the30dF temperature drop. Furthermore, it is VERY VERY far away from the "off by a factor of 2.5"...which is again is undoubtedly is the incorrect 15% that Tyson was first using.

Second, at the end of the video the timer goes off and he says "we just got this ball out of the fridge" at 51dF. He squeezes the ball and declares that it is "pretty much the same!!!" But since we know the ideal gas law has reduced the pressure in that ball by about 1.5psi we now have a debunker who is declaring that Tom Brady is correct in being unable to tell the impact that a small drop in psi has on a football.

Here is the video for any who care to watch Nye disprove everything he thought he was proving.

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2015/1/27/7921727/bill-nye-explains-deflategate-video

More than Nye says the Patriots science is way off:http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24997479/neil-degrasse-tyson-science-from-belichick-patriots-doesnt-add-up

Welcome to yesterday, today NDT admitted he was wrong.

Right! He corrected to say the temperature needed to be greater than a mere 90 degrees!So, to summarize, Patriots fans' latest theory is that the balls were inflated at Brady's grandmas house where she has the heat turned up to 95.

No, they were heated using friction, which the Pats openly admitted to, on Friday, last week.

Exactly, 1 psi is attributable to the weather (assume a 70dF locker room and 50dF field). The other psi (assuming mort is right and there is another psi) belichick attributes to the friction from the ball prep process which Tango rightly notes would need to raise the internal temp close to 90dF. Can a machine rubbing the exterior of the ball raise the internal temp to 90dF? No idea, but IMO THAT is the experiment that the NFL needs to run to prove/disprove this.Alternately, it appears that smart labs is making a case that a wet ball will expand and thus the psi will decrease in the process so there is that possibility as well, but BB clearly stated that their ball prep process raised the psi by 1 so that is where I would start if I were the nfl. But then gain, I probably would have contacted brady so wtf do I know (sarcasm alert)!

Here's the problem of the 1 psi rubbing theory: it assumes the pats rubbed their balls immediately before delivering to the refs at precicely 2:15 before kickoff. Does that make sense to anyone? If you were the equipment manager for the Pats, in charge of delivering game balls for the biggest game of the season, would you wait until the exact last minute?I wouldn't. I'd have it done a few days early to give Mr. Brady a chance to feel my balls in advance, just to make sure they were to his liking. That's just me though.

If the balls were rubbed more than an hour prior to ball inspection, they likely would have acclimated to room temp, which means that 1 psi is still unaccounted for.

They were instructed to inflate them to 12.5 psi. If they did that before the balls had reached equilibrium they would be underinflated before even touching the field. Which combined with the 1.8-1.9 psi drop attributed to the elements more than accounts for this.

Exactly. Does it stand to reason that the balls had not yet reached equilibrium? I don't think it does.

Its only unaccounted for if the balls are 2 psi underinflated. If the Florio source is correct, and the ball was closer to 1 psi under, the science holds pretty well, even with the ball prep coming to equilibrium.

 

[Morton Muffley]

Why are we still talking about this? I thought it was over when BB dropped the mic on Saturday.

It was until the flat earth crowd came at us with pitchforks demanding that the earth placed back at the center of the universe

 

[mbuehner]

THEY DID IT. What on earth is so hard to figure out about this?

If I were on a jury, I've seen/heard enough to vote "guilty". Brady was pretty obviously lying. Kraft's bravado seemed completely disingenuous. The fact is the balls were good at game time and not at halftime. Period.

You all bringing all this science bullcrap into this remind me of OJ's attorneys when they went out of their way to confuse the jury with nonsensical arguments about DNA and it's validity and they threw off the jury from looking at the most logical outcome - that he did in fact kill his ex wife. For real. The whole gas laws, blah blah blah reminds me exactly of the strategy his attorneys used.

But like then, I suspect it will work again when the most logical answer is that they did it, just like OJ did. I certainly am not comparing this to a murder, just the strategy.

sweet jesus, i hope if i am ever on trial for something you are not in the jury then. No need for science when you have a built in lie detector!

He doesn't need facts or the truth. They just get in the way of his gut feelings.

THEY DID IT. What on earth is so hard to figure out about this?

If I were on a jury, I've seen/heard enough to vote "guilty". Brady was pretty obviously lying. Kraft's bravado seemed completely disingenuous. The fact is the balls were good at game time and not at halftime. Period.

You all bringing all this science bullcrap into this remind me of OJ's attorneys when they went out of their way to confuse the jury with nonsensical arguments about DNA and it's validity and they threw off the jury from looking at the most logical outcome - that he did in fact kill his ex wife. For real. The whole gas laws, blah blah blah reminds me exactly of the strategy his attorneys used.

But like then, I suspect it will work again when the most logical answer is that they did it, just like OJ did. I certainly am not comparing this to a murder, just the strategy.

Now imagine that all the information you had to base your decision on was whispered to you by a random guy on the street rather than testimony in the trial.

Huh? Not sure I follow.

That cant be an usual sensation for you.

Actually it is. You may think my opinion is idiotic and that's ok. I think the same of yours. We good?

Not really. I have equations, you have your gut. Got any lucky numbers for this week?

Your equations haven't convinced me. I'm still much more comfortable with my gut. What numbers do your equations say to play? Inquiring minds want to know.

Youre a treasure my friend, a treasure.

 

[T J]

THEY DID IT. What on earth is so hard to figure out about this?

If I were on a jury, I've seen/heard enough to vote "guilty". Brady was pretty obviously lying. Kraft's bravado seemed completely disingenuous. The fact is the balls were good at game time and not at halftime. Period.

You all bringing all this science bullcrap into this remind me of OJ's attorneys when they went out of their way to confuse the jury with nonsensical arguments about DNA and it's validity and they threw off the jury from looking at the most logical outcome - that he did in fact kill his ex wife. For real. The whole gas laws, blah blah blah reminds me exactly of the strategy his attorneys used.

But like then, I suspect it will work again when the most logical answer is that they did it, just like OJ did. I certainly am not comparing this to a murder, just the strategy.

Just when i didnt think this thread could get any stranger , along comes T J

I've been wanting to chime in for a while. Was holding off hoping the situation would resolve itself and instead it devolved into a scientific debate with no clear answers.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

THEY DID IT. What on earth is so hard to figure out about this?

If I were on a jury, I've seen/heard enough to vote "guilty". Brady was pretty obviously lying. Kraft's bravado seemed completely disingenuous. The fact is the balls were good at game time and not at halftime. Period.

You all bringing all this science bullcrap into this remind me of OJ's attorneys when they went out of their way to confuse the jury with nonsensical arguments about DNA and it's validity and they threw off the jury from looking at the most logical outcome - that he did in fact kill his ex wife. For real. The whole gas laws, blah blah blah reminds me exactly of the strategy his attorneys used.

But like then, I suspect it will work again when the most logical answer is that they did it, just like OJ did. I certainly am not comparing this to a murder, just the strategy.

sweet jesus, i hope if i am ever on trial for something you are not in the jury then. No need for science when you have a built in lie detector!

He doesn't need facts or the truth. They just get in the way of his gut feelings.

THEY DID IT. What on earth is so hard to figure out about this?

If I were on a jury, I've seen/heard enough to vote "guilty". Brady was pretty obviously lying. Kraft's bravado seemed completely disingenuous. The fact is the balls were good at game time and not at halftime. Period.

You all bringing all this science bullcrap into this remind me of OJ's attorneys when they went out of their way to confuse the jury with nonsensical arguments about DNA and it's validity and they threw off the jury from looking at the most logical outcome - that he did in fact kill his ex wife. For real. The whole gas laws, blah blah blah reminds me exactly of the strategy his attorneys used.

But like then, I suspect it will work again when the most logical answer is that they did it, just like OJ did. I certainly am not comparing this to a murder, just the strategy.

Now imagine that all the information you had to base your decision on was whispered to you by a random guy on the street rather than testimony in the trial.

Huh? Not sure I follow.

That cant be an usual sensation for you.

Actually it is. You may think my opinion is idiotic and that's ok. I think the same of yours. We good?

Not really. I have equations, you have your gut. Got any lucky numbers for this week?

Your equations haven't convinced me. I'm still much more comfortable with my gut. What numbers do your equations say to play? Inquiring minds want to know.

i bet your gut told you that our government blew up the twin towers ...you come off like one of those crazy conspiracy guys lmao...throw out any reasoning and just run with your gut

 

[General Tso]

THEY DID IT. What on earth is so hard to figure out about this?

If I were on a jury, I've seen/heard enough to vote "guilty". Brady was pretty obviously lying. Kraft's bravado seemed completely disingenuous. The fact is the balls were good at game time and not at halftime. Period.

You all bringing all this science bullcrap into this remind me of OJ's attorneys when they went out of their way to confuse the jury with nonsensical arguments about DNA and it's validity and they threw off the jury from looking at the most logical outcome - that he did in fact kill his ex wife. For real. The whole gas laws, blah blah blah reminds me exactly of the strategy his attorneys used.

But like then, I suspect it will work again when the most logical answer is that they did it, just like OJ did. I certainly am not comparing this to a murder, just the strategy.

Now imagine that all the information you had to base your decision on was whispered to you by a random guy on the street rather than testimony in the trial.

Huh? Not sure I follow.

None of the facts in this case so far can be verified, and in fact there are constantly conflicting reports. If you have made your mind up on what has happened already, you are either a Patriots fan who wants this story to be false or a Patriots hater who wants it to be true.A good method of self reflection is, if you are a Patriots fan, to imagine that the Giants were in this exact position (accused of underinflating footballs, possibly for years) and how you would act in this thread. And if you are someone who is convinced the Patriots did this, imagine how you would be acting in this thread if your favorite team were in this position.

If you can do that, you should be able to sympathize with the people you disagree with in this thread and maybe have a little bit less trolling.

I don't intend to troll. I'm not a hater, but definitely not a fan either. I think they did it for sure and I think all these people brining science into it are nuts. I wouldn't think that if the science were consistent, but people on both sides are finding science that supports their opinion. So I go back to what seems the most logical. The Pats deflated the balls. It just cracks me up to see Pats fans go out of their way to try to grasp onto science when it just seems to me they're doing just that - grasping. At least it feels that way when there's a bunch of science going the other way also.

I weep for the future.

 

[Tango]

So Bill Nye (alleged science guy but confirmed Seahawks fan) posted a video attempting to refute Belichick's explanation of the Deflategate hypothesis.

Unfortunately for Nye he makes two glaring mistakes that accidentally end up proving both Belichick AND tom Brady's points!

First, he says "imagine you are in a sweaty lockeroom that is 80dF and you inflate the footballs...then you move them to a field at 51dF" He then states that this change of approximately 30dF would result in "about a 6% change" [in psi] and that ZING "you'd be off by a factor of 2.5!" Here the 2.5 factor refers to a 2psi change being a 15% difference (6% x 2.5=15%). The problem is that he is making the same miscalculation that Neil deGrasse Tyson made (and recently retracted/corrected) of using gauge pressure instead of absolute pressure. Interestingly, when you use the correct pressure calcs, the 2 psi diff is actually a 7% diff and thus pretty close to the stated 6% diff that he can explain with the30dF temperature drop. Furthermore, it is VERY VERY far away from the "off by a factor of 2.5"...which is again is undoubtedly is the incorrect 15% that Tyson was first using.

Second, at the end of the video the timer goes off and he says "we just got this ball out of the fridge" at 51dF. He squeezes the ball and declares that it is "pretty much the same!!!" But since we know the ideal gas law has reduced the pressure in that ball by about 1.5psi we now have a debunker who is declaring that Tom Brady is correct in being unable to tell the impact that a small drop in psi has on a football.

Here is the video for any who care to watch Nye disprove everything he thought he was proving.

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2015/1/27/7921727/bill-nye-explains-deflategate-video

More than Nye says the Patriots science is way off:http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24997479/neil-degrasse-tyson-science-from-belichick-patriots-doesnt-add-up

It's like a never-ending flood of scientific ignorance.

Please google Ideal Gas Law, plug in the numbers for the calculation, and you can see for yourself that Bill Nye and Neil Tyson screwed up basic math. This is stuff you should have learned in high school! SMH.

Right, greater than 90 degrees. All this does is bury the Pats further.Even the corrections prove the Pats wrong.

Did you even bother to do the calculation yourself? It is not 90 degrees, sorry.

Ha, 90 degrees is in the correction that you referred to. The best article I can find to defer the Patriots is in the Globe where, if you read the article start to finish and ignore out of context comments like "Belichick was exactly right"... You find that they merely agree directionally that deflation may occur around half a pound to a pound and a half.....in the worst case.Not exactly a ringing endorsement.

The OJ logic being brought into this isn't that silly: most will think they cheated for good (not great) reason, but the question of whether they elude justice due to Marcia Clark's (ie RG's) team running a flawed sting operation is yet to be seen.

Uh no, that was someone else who referred you to the correction. Bill Nye's "correction" is going off the original rumor that all the Patriots balls lost 2 PSI, when the revised rumors say they only lost 1 PSI.

Here's a 2 minute video experiment proving how footballs can lose about 1.8 PSI going from 75 to 50 degrees.

The 90 comes straight from the correction, not from me.

The video is helpful, thanks, perhaps the only helpful piece for that Pats that I have seen...but flys in the face of the corrected science reports and the Globe's scientist that support the Pats directionally.

The science side of this will probably come down to the precision of the sting operation. If, as reported, the Colts balls showed little deterioration and the Pats fell out of range despite being exposed to similar conditions...then under a preponderance of evidence standard the Pats will be toast.

 

[espnespn]

THEY DID IT. What on earth is so hard to figure out about this?

If I were on a jury, I've seen/heard enough to vote "guilty". Brady was pretty obviously lying. Kraft's bravado seemed completely disingenuous. The fact is the balls were good at game time and not at halftime. Period.

You all bringing all this science bullcrap into this remind me of OJ's attorneys when they went out of their way to confuse the jury with nonsensical arguments about DNA and it's validity and they threw off the jury from looking at the most logical outcome - that he did in fact kill his ex wife. For real. The whole gas laws, blah blah blah reminds me exactly of the strategy his attorneys used.

But like then, I suspect it will work again when the most logical answer is that they did it, just like OJ did. I certainly am not comparing this to a murder, just the strategy.

Just when i didnt think this thread could get any stranger , along comes T J

I've been wanting to chime in for a while. Was holding off hoping the situation would resolve itself and instead it devolved into a scientific debate with no clear answers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxsXFX3tDpg

Do you believe what your eyes see in this HeadSmart video? Or do you think it is a magic trick?

 

[Morton Muffley]

When you guys start acting smart and running your own calculations, I hope you realize how meaningless it is. If any of you think the refs accurately measure these balls down to the tenths of a decimal point....

Agreed, I have been arguing for days that there is no way the reefs were adequately measuring psi or any of the other required specs (length, weight, long circumference, short circumference, etc) for 24 footballs...ain't happening

 

[Green and Gold]

THEY DID IT. What on earth is so hard to figure out about this?

If I were on a jury, I've seen/heard enough to vote "guilty". Brady was pretty obviously lying. Kraft's bravado seemed completely disingenuous. The fact is the balls were good at game time and not at halftime. Period.

You all bringing all this science bullcrap into this remind me of OJ's attorneys when they went out of their way to confuse the jury with nonsensical arguments about DNA and it's validity and they threw off the jury from looking at the most logical outcome - that he did in fact kill his ex wife. For real. The whole gas laws, blah blah blah reminds me exactly of the strategy his attorneys used.

But like then, I suspect it will work again when the most logical answer is that they did it, just like OJ did. I certainly am not comparing this to a murder, just the strategy.

Now imagine that all the information you had to base your decision on was whispered to you by a random guy on the street rather than testimony in the trial.

Huh? Not sure I follow.

None of the facts in this case so far can be verified, and in fact there are constantly conflicting reports. If you have made your mind up on what has happened already, you are either a Patriots fan who wants this story to be false or a Patriots hater who wants it to be true.A good method of self reflection is, if you are a Patriots fan, to imagine that the Giants were in this exact position (accused of underinflating footballs, possibly for years) and how you would act in this thread. And if you are someone who is convinced the Patriots did this, imagine how you would be acting in this thread if your favorite team were in this position.

If you can do that, you should be able to sympathize with the people you disagree with in this thread and maybe have a little bit less trolling.

I don't intend to troll. I'm not a hater, but definitely not a fan either. I think they did it for sure and I think all these people brining science into it are nuts. I wouldn't think that if the science were consistent, but people on both sides are finding science that supports their opinion. So I go back to what seems the most logical. The Pats deflated the balls. It just cracks me up to see Pats fans go out of their way to try to grasp onto science when it just seems to me they're doing just that - grasping. At least it feels that way when there's a bunch of science going the other way also.

If thr NFL comes out and says that the Patriots did nothing wrong, and that x y and z factors contributed to 1 lost psi, will you change your mind or remain convinced the Patriots cheated?

 

[moleculo]

So Bill Nye (alleged science guy but confirmed Seahawks fan) posted a video attempting to refute Belichick's explanation of the Deflategate hypothesis.

Unfortunately for Nye he makes two glaring mistakes that accidentally end up proving both Belichick AND tom Brady's points!

First, he says "imagine you are in a sweaty lockeroom that is 80dF and you inflate the footballs...then you move them to a field at 51dF" He then states that this change of approximately 30dF would result in "about a 6% change" [in psi] and that ZING "you'd be off by a factor of 2.5!" Here the 2.5 factor refers to a 2psi change being a 15% difference (6% x 2.5=15%). The problem is that he is making the same miscalculation that Neil deGrasse Tyson made (and recently retracted/corrected) of using gauge pressure instead of absolute pressure. Interestingly, when you use the correct pressure calcs, the 2 psi diff is actually a 7% diff and thus pretty close to the stated 6% diff that he can explain with the30dF temperature drop. Furthermore, it is VERY VERY far away from the "off by a factor of 2.5"...which is again is undoubtedly is the incorrect 15% that Tyson was first using.

Second, at the end of the video the timer goes off and he says "we just got this ball out of the fridge" at 51dF. He squeezes the ball and declares that it is "pretty much the same!!!" But since we know the ideal gas law has reduced the pressure in that ball by about 1.5psi we now have a debunker who is declaring that Tom Brady is correct in being unable to tell the impact that a small drop in psi has on a football.

Here is the video for any who care to watch Nye disprove everything he thought he was proving.

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2015/1/27/7921727/bill-nye-explains-deflategate-video

More than Nye says the Patriots science is way off:http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24997479/neil-degrasse-tyson-science-from-belichick-patriots-doesnt-add-up

Welcome to yesterday, today NDT admitted he was wrong.

Right! He corrected to say the temperature needed to be greater than a mere 90 degrees!So, to summarize, Patriots fans' latest theory is that the balls were inflated at Brady's grandmas house where she has the heat turned up to 95.

No, they were heated using friction, which the Pats openly admitted to, on Friday, last week.

Exactly, 1 psi is attributable to the weather (assume a 70dF locker room and 50dF field). The other psi (assuming mort is right and there is another psi) belichick attributes to the friction from the ball prep process which Tango rightly notes would need to raise the internal temp close to 90dF. Can a machine rubbing the exterior of the ball raise the internal temp to 90dF? No idea, but IMO THAT is the experiment that the NFL needs to run to prove/disprove this.Alternately, it appears that smart labs is making a case that a wet ball will expand and thus the psi will decrease in the process so there is that possibility as well, but BB clearly stated that their ball prep process raised the psi by 1 so that is where I would start if I were the nfl. But then gain, I probably would have contacted brady so wtf do I know (sarcasm alert)!

Here's the problem of the 1 psi rubbing theory: it assumes the pats rubbed their balls immediately before delivering to the refs at precicely 2:15 before kickoff. Does that make sense to anyone? If you were the equipment manager for the Pats, in charge of delivering game balls for the biggest game of the season, would you wait until the exact last minute?I wouldn't. I'd have it done a few days early to give Mr. Brady a chance to feel my balls in advance, just to make sure they were to his liking. That's just me though.

If the balls were rubbed more than an hour prior to ball inspection, they likely would have acclimated to room temp, which means that 1 psi is still unaccounted for.

They were instructed to inflate them to 12.5 psi. If they did that before the balls had reached equilibrium they would be underinflated before even touching the field. Which combined with the 1.8-1.9 psi drop attributed to the elements more than accounts for this.

Exactly. Does it stand to reason that the balls had not yet reached equilibrium? I don't think it does.

Its only unaccounted for if the balls are 2 psi underinflated. If the Florio source is correct, and the ball was closer to 1 psi under, the science holds pretty well, even with the ball prep coming to equilibrium.

The science holds, regardless. No amount of ball-handling can beat the laws of nature. Don't look at Florio's article as the primary Evidence that some science you like supports, look at the science first and find the narrative to support that.

 

[Run It Up]

So Bill Nye (alleged science guy but confirmed Seahawks fan) posted a video attempting to refute Belichick's explanation of the Deflategate hypothesis.

Unfortunately for Nye he makes two glaring mistakes that accidentally end up proving both Belichick AND tom Brady's points!

First, he says "imagine you are in a sweaty lockeroom that is 80dF and you inflate the footballs...then you move them to a field at 51dF" He then states that this change of approximately 30dF would result in "about a 6% change" [in psi] and that ZING "you'd be off by a factor of 2.5!" Here the 2.5 factor refers to a 2psi change being a 15% difference (6% x 2.5=15%). The problem is that he is making the same miscalculation that Neil deGrasse Tyson made (and recently retracted/corrected) of using gauge pressure instead of absolute pressure. Interestingly, when you use the correct pressure calcs, the 2 psi diff is actually a 7% diff and thus pretty close to the stated 6% diff that he can explain with the30dF temperature drop. Furthermore, it is VERY VERY far away from the "off by a factor of 2.5"...which is again is undoubtedly is the incorrect 15% that Tyson was first using.

Second, at the end of the video the timer goes off and he says "we just got this ball out of the fridge" at 51dF. He squeezes the ball and declares that it is "pretty much the same!!!" But since we know the ideal gas law has reduced the pressure in that ball by about 1.5psi we now have a debunker who is declaring that Tom Brady is correct in being unable to tell the impact that a small drop in psi has on a football.

Here is the video for any who care to watch Nye disprove everything he thought he was proving.

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2015/1/27/7921727/bill-nye-explains-deflategate-video

More than Nye says the Patriots science is way off:http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24997479/neil-degrasse-tyson-science-from-belichick-patriots-doesnt-add-up

Welcome to yesterday, today NDT admitted he was wrong.

Right! He corrected to say the temperature needed to be greater than a mere 90 degrees!So, to summarize, Patriots fans' latest theory is that the balls were inflated at Brady's grandmas house where she has the heat turned up to 95.

No, they were heated using friction, which the Pats openly admitted to, on Friday, last week.

Exactly, 1 psi is attributable to the weather (assume a 70dF locker room and 50dF field). The other psi (assuming mort is right and there is another psi) belichick attributes to the friction from the ball prep process which Tango rightly notes would need to raise the internal temp close to 90dF. Can a machine rubbing the exterior of the ball raise the internal temp to 90dF? No idea, but IMO THAT is the experiment that the NFL needs to run to prove/disprove this.Alternately, it appears that smart labs is making a case that a wet ball will expand and thus the psi will decrease in the process so there is that possibility as well, but BB clearly stated that their ball prep process raised the psi by 1 so that is where I would start if I were the nfl. But then gain, I probably would have contacted brady so wtf do I know (sarcasm alert)!

Here's the problem of the 1 psi rubbing theory: it assumes the pats rubbed their balls immediately before delivering to the refs at precicely 2:15 before kickoff. Does that make sense to anyone? If you were the equipment manager for the Pats, in charge of delivering game balls for the biggest game of the season, would you wait until the exact last minute?I wouldn't. I'd have it done a few days early to give Mr. Brady a chance to feel my balls in advance, just to make sure they were to his liking. That's just me though.

If the balls were rubbed more than an hour prior to ball inspection, they likely would have acclimated to room temp, which means that 1 psi is still unaccounted for.

They were instructed to inflate them to 12.5 psi. If they did that before the balls had reached equilibrium they would be underinflated before even touching the field. Which combined with the 1.8-1.9 psi drop attributed to the elements more than accounts for this.

Exactly. Does it stand to reason that the balls had not yet reached equilibrium? I don't think it does.

It depends on when it happened, as you said.

I've heard several scientists chime in on the radio that have said it would take approximately an hour for it to reach equilibrium in most circumstances, but in wet conditions that speeds up a great deal.

I also don't see any reason for them to not wait till the last minute, that tackiness of the ball wears off over time - I'd assume you'd want to minimize that.

 

[The Kerminator]

What's the FBG record for number of posts in a single thread? We've got a couple more weeks before the NFL makes their ruling and then the debate of whether it was correct or not begins.

 

[Run It Up]

What's the FBG record for number of posts in a single thread? We've got a couple more weeks before the NFL makes their ruling and then the debate of whether it was correct or not begins.

FFA has anything the Pool has crushed.

 

[Tango]

THEY DID IT. What on earth is so hard to figure out about this?

If I were on a jury, I've seen/heard enough to vote "guilty". Brady was pretty obviously lying. Kraft's bravado seemed completely disingenuous. The fact is the balls were good at game time and not at halftime. Period.

You all bringing all this science bullcrap into this remind me of OJ's attorneys when they went out of their way to confuse the jury with nonsensical arguments about DNA and it's validity and they threw off the jury from looking at the most logical outcome - that he did in fact kill his ex wife. For real. The whole gas laws, blah blah blah reminds me exactly of the strategy his attorneys used.

But like then, I suspect it will work again when the most logical answer is that they did it, just like OJ did. I certainly am not comparing this to a murder, just the strategy.

sweet jesus, i hope if i am ever on trial for something you are not in the jury then. No need for science when you have a built in lie detector!

He doesn't need facts or the truth. They just get in the way of his gut feelings.

THEY DID IT. What on earth is so hard to figure out about this?

If I were on a jury, I've seen/heard enough to vote "guilty". Brady was pretty obviously lying. Kraft's bravado seemed completely disingenuous. The fact is the balls were good at game time and not at halftime. Period.

You all bringing all this science bullcrap into this remind me of OJ's attorneys when they went out of their way to confuse the jury with nonsensical arguments about DNA and it's validity and they threw off the jury from looking at the most logical outcome - that he did in fact kill his ex wife. For real. The whole gas laws, blah blah blah reminds me exactly of the strategy his attorneys used.

But like then, I suspect it will work again when the most logical answer is that they did it, just like OJ did. I certainly am not comparing this to a murder, just the strategy.

Now imagine that all the information you had to base your decision on was whispered to you by a random guy on the street rather than testimony in the trial.

Huh? Not sure I follow.

That cant be an usual sensation for you.

Actually it is. You may think my opinion is idiotic and that's ok. I think the same of yours. We good?

Not really. I have equations, you have your gut. Got any lucky numbers for this week?

Your equations haven't convinced me. I'm still much more comfortable with my gut. What numbers do your equations say to play? Inquiring minds want to know.

i bet your gut told you that our government blew up the twin towers ...you come off like one of those crazy conspiracy guys lmao...throw out any reasoning and just run with your gut

Most anyone who knows anyone in the league thinks the Pats deflate the balls purposely and that the coach and qb knew. Whether they get away with it is another story.

Most of the same think it's not such a big deal in a vacuum, but that the Pats are getting nailed for it not because they're hated for winning sometimes, but because they are often arrogant and sometimes just plain unfriendly. Brady said some silly things after the Ravens win and he's already paid more than enough for it IMO.

 

[T J]

THEY DID IT. What on earth is so hard to figure out about this?

If I were on a jury, I've seen/heard enough to vote "guilty". Brady was pretty obviously lying. Kraft's bravado seemed completely disingenuous. The fact is the balls were good at game time and not at halftime. Period.

You all bringing all this science bullcrap into this remind me of OJ's attorneys when they went out of their way to confuse the jury with nonsensical arguments about DNA and it's validity and they threw off the jury from looking at the most logical outcome - that he did in fact kill his ex wife. For real. The whole gas laws, blah blah blah reminds me exactly of the strategy his attorneys used.

But like then, I suspect it will work again when the most logical answer is that they did it, just like OJ did. I certainly am not comparing this to a murder, just the strategy.

Now imagine that all the information you had to base your decision on was whispered to you by a random guy on the street rather than testimony in the trial.

Huh? Not sure I follow.

None of the facts in this case so far can be verified, and in fact there are constantly conflicting reports. If you have made your mind up on what has happened already, you are either a Patriots fan who wants this story to be false or a Patriots hater who wants it to be true.A good method of self reflection is, if you are a Patriots fan, to imagine that the Giants were in this exact position (accused of underinflating footballs, possibly for years) and how you would act in this thread. And if you are someone who is convinced the Patriots did this, imagine how you would be acting in this thread if your favorite team were in this position.

If you can do that, you should be able to sympathize with the people you disagree with in this thread and maybe have a little bit less trolling.

I don't intend to troll. I'm not a hater, but definitely not a fan either. I think they did it for sure and I think all these people brining science into it are nuts. I wouldn't think that if the science were consistent, but people on both sides are finding science that supports their opinion. So I go back to what seems the most logical. The Pats deflated the balls. It just cracks me up to see Pats fans go out of their way to try to grasp onto science when it just seems to me they're doing just that - grasping. At least it feels that way when there's a bunch of science going the other way also.

If thr NFL comes out and says that the Patriots did nothing wrong, and that x y and z factors contributed to 1 lost psi, will you change your mind or remain convinced the Patriots cheated?

Last thing. I'd own it and say I was wrong. I may be a #### but I'm not that big of a ####.

 

[theplayer11]

tj is either a troll or not the sharpest tool in the shed

 

[General Tso]

When you guys start acting smart and running your own calculations, I hope you realize how meaningless it is. If any of you think the refs accurately measure these balls down to the tenths of a decimal point....

Agreed, I have been arguing for days that there is no way the reefs were adequately measuring psi or any of the other required specs (length, weight, long circumference, short circumference, etc) for 24 footballs...ain't happening

It's funny how this has come full circle. I proposed this theory as well last week and I was excoriated for it.

 

[Devine Intervention]

So first, neither Brady or BB has any idea how the balls are prepared. Then, it changes to the balls being prepared in such a precise fashion and a specific time before the weigh in. But yet the qb or any coach know anything of this very specific process? Esp the coach who is known for being fussy about every detail.

Second, Brady said that he picked out 12 balls that were perfect to his liking. If those 12 balls were how he wanted them before their inspection don't you think that they would have already been scuffed or rubbed? If that was the case I doubt that they were being scuffed again prior to the inspection. And if they weren't scuffed before Brady chose them then I'm sure they wouldn't rub them and change the psi to below what Brady preferred?

 

[Devine Intervention]

So first, neither Brady or BB has any idea how the balls are prepared. Then, it changes to the balls being prepared in such a precise fashion and a specific time before the weigh in. But yet the qb or any coach know anything of this very specific process? Esp the coach who is known for being fussy about every detail.

Second, Brady said that he picked out 12 balls that were perfect to his liking. If those 12 balls were how he wanted them before their inspection don't you think that they would have already been scuffed or rubbed? If that was the case I doubt that they were being scuffed again prior to the inspection. And if they weren't scuffed before Brady chose them then I'm sure they wouldn't rub them and change the psi to below what Brady preferred?

 

[Devine Intervention]

So first, neither Brady or BB has any idea how the balls are prepared. Then, it changes to the balls being prepared in such a precise fashion and a specific time before the weigh in. But yet the qb or any coach know anything of this very specific process? Esp the coach who is known for being fussy about every detail.

Second, Brady said that he picked out 12 balls that were perfect to his liking. If those 12 balls were how he wanted them before their inspection don't you think that they would have already been scuffed or rubbed? If that was the case I doubt that they were being scuffed again prior to the inspection. And if they weren't scuffed before Brady chose them then I'm sure they wouldn't rub them and change the psi to below what Brady preferred?

 

[Devine Intervention]

So first, neither Brady or BB has any idea how the balls are prepared. Then, it changes to the balls being prepared in such a precise fashion and a specific time before the weigh in. But yet the qb or any coach know anything of this very specific process? Esp the coach who is known for being fussy about every detail.

Second, Brady said that he picked out 12 balls that were perfect to his liking. If those 12 balls were how he wanted them before their inspection don't you think that they would have already been scuffed or rubbed? If that was the case I doubt that they were being scuffed again prior to the inspection. And if they weren't scuffed before Brady chose them then I'm sure they wouldn't rub them and change the psi to below what Brady preferred?

 

[Tango]

When you guys start acting smart and running your own calculations, I hope you realize how meaningless it is. If any of you think the refs accurately measure these balls down to the tenths of a decimal point....

Agreed, I have been arguing for days that there is no way the reefs were adequately measuring psi or any of the other required specs (length, weight, long circumference, short circumference, etc) for 24 footballs...ain't happening

It's funny how this has come full circle. I proposed this theory as well last week and I was excoriated for it.

They were planning the sting for this game. I assume it was executed far above and beyond normal practice. But even then the NFL could screw it up...

 

[Devine Intervention]

So first, neither Brady or BB has any idea how the balls are prepared. Then, it changes to the balls being prepared in such a precise fashion and a specific time before the weigh in. But yet the qb or any coach know anything of this very specific process? Esp the coach who is known for being fussy about every detail.

Second, Brady said that he picked out 12 balls that were perfect to his liking. If those 12 balls were how he wanted them before their inspection don't you think that they would have already been scuffed or rubbed? If that was the case I doubt that they were being scuffed again prior to the inspection. And if they weren't scuffed before Brady chose them then I'm sure they wouldn't rub them and change the psi to below what Brady preferred?

 

[Tango]

So first, neither Brady or BB has any idea how the balls are prepared. Then, it changes to the balls being prepared in such a precise fashion and a specific time before the weigh in. But yet the qb or any coach know anything of this very specific process? Esp the coach who is known for being fussy about every detail.

Second, Brady said that he picked out 12 balls that were perfect to his liking. If those 12 balls were how he wanted them before their inspection don't you think that they would have already been scuffed or rubbed? If that was the case I doubt that they were being scuffed again prior to the inspection. And if they weren't scuffed before Brady chose them then I'm sure they wouldn't rub them and change the psi to below what Brady preferred?

Could you repeat that?

 

[General Tso]

So first, neither Brady or BB has any idea how the balls are prepared. Then, it changes to the balls being prepared in such a precise fashion and a specific time before the weigh in. But yet the qb or any coach know anything of this very specific process? Esp the coach who is known for being fussy about every detail.

Second, Brady said that he picked out 12 balls that were perfect to his liking. If those 12 balls were how he wanted them before their inspection don't you think that they would have already been scuffed or rubbed? If that was the case I doubt that they were being scuffed again prior to the inspection. And if they weren't scuffed before Brady chose them then I'm sure they wouldn't rub them and change the psi to below what Brady preferred?

Link to the report saying Brady knew nothing about the ball prep process???

 

[Devine Intervention]

Not sure how that happened. I'm trying to figure out how to delete them haha damn smart phone

 

[The Kerminator]

So first, neither Brady or BB has any idea how the balls are prepared. Then, it changes to the balls being prepared in such a precise fashion and a specific time before the weigh in. But yet the qb or any coach know anything of this very specific process? Esp the coach who is known for being fussy about every detail.

Second, Brady said that he picked out 12 balls that were perfect to his liking. If those 12 balls were how he wanted them before their inspection don't you think that they would have already been scuffed or rubbed? If that was the case I doubt that they were being scuffed again prior to the inspection. And if they weren't scuffed before Brady chose them then I'm sure they wouldn't rub them and change the psi to below what Brady preferred?

You can say that again.

 

[GrandpaRox]

So first, neither Brady or BB has any idea how the balls are prepared. Then, it changes to the balls being prepared in such a precise fashion and a specific time before the weigh in. But yet the qb or any coach know anything of this very specific process? Esp the coach who is known for being fussy about every detail.

Second, Brady said that he picked out 12 balls that were perfect to his liking. If those 12 balls were how he wanted them before their inspection don't you think that they would have already been scuffed or rubbed? If that was the case I doubt that they were being scuffed again prior to the inspection. And if they weren't scuffed before Brady chose them then I'm sure they wouldn't rub them and change the psi to below what Brady preferred?

why do you keep repeating yourself?