Patriots being investigated after Colts game (6 Viewers)

[rick6668]

Not to quote myself, but am I seeing that, yes the Pats suspended them, but that the league has disallowed them from doing their jobs?

yeah, the league banned them from dealing with equipment and they'd need to get that privilege back through vincent (the league)

nothing unusual about any of this

No, nothing. Happens all the time to completely innocent, loyal employees . Especially the part about "no pay".

so, you think the deflator should be getting paid right now?

No, I think he is completely guilty, and I believe the Pats organization basically agrees with me based upon the punishment.

Assuming that to be correct, I see no reason why he would have done this without being instructed to by someone above him. If you use logic and connect the dots, they do seem to lead right to your golden boy. Whether there is enough proof to convict him a a real court - no idea. A lot of the potential proof probably was not allowed to be seen by the investigating team. But I see enough smoke to determine that there is probably a fire.

I also understand your need to defend your guy. I dont appreciate how you do it, but I understand it. I'm a fanboy too, and if I was lucky enough to have a golden boy on my golden-boy-devoid team and his legacy was going down in flames before my eyes, I'd probably feel the same way you do.

you seem a little hung up on 'golden boys'

just as an aside, not that it's relevant to anything, but just for accuracy in your future trolling --- you do understand the deflator is a part-time gameday guy who doesn't work 'til august, right?

kind of a nitpick, but you do understand this?

Why am I "trolling" because I am discussing a topic that interests me? I check in here every 4-5 pages occasionally calling out moronic posts from delusional fanboys, and I am the troll? You appear multiple times on every page, typically calling someone who disagrees with you a name. Not to nitpick, but if one of us is a "troll", it isnt me. Sorry I disagree with you and your buddies in here who refuse to see the whats right in front of them.

His part time employment is irrelevant. There were 2 employees, both of whom were suspended without pay. You dont do that to people who you think are innocent. Adrian Peterson was suspended WITH pay.

ChuckLiddell> if ever there was an example of someone deserving of the ignore feature, this is the guy. 12punch has shown time and time again that he is incapable of adult conversation. You are wasting your electrons.

And quit quoting it all. Each page in this thread goes from 50 to ~30 posts.

 

[Mookie]

The Pats did do an internal investigation, it's how they discovered the video of Mcnally taking the bags into the restroom among other things. But they found that atmospheric conditions explained the difference thinking Mcnally was innocent.

But the Pats don't believe McNally was innocent because they suspended him and Jastremski without pay! Some could argue that the suspensions for McNally and Jastremski are league imposed, but these guys were suspended on the day the Wells report was issued, which oddly lends support to the notion that the Pats thought the Report was credible enough to take away these employee's livelihoods indefinitely.

The fallacy in the Pats argument is that by taking action against McNally and Jastremski, the Pats have admitted some measure of organizational wrongdoing and can no longer play the "We didn't do nothing" card. Yet that is precisely the argument they are trying to make. It is logically inconsistent and is killing any measure of credibility they have.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

The Pats did do an internal investigation, it's how they discovered the video of Mcnally taking the bags into the restroom among other things. But they found that atmospheric conditions explained the difference thinking Mcnally was innocent.

So they thought he was innocent...yet they suspended him without pay. Got it.

 

[General Tso]

Florio continues to ask the right questions. It does feel like the worm is turning a bit.

The most troubling aspect of the entire situation continues to be the deliberate leak by the league office of ESPNs Chris Mortensen that 11 of the 12 footballs were a full two pounds below the 12.5-PSI minimum.

The leak of false information created a narrative the league never rebutted and fueled the appointment of Wells, which in turn resulted in a scorched-earth search for anything that could be used to support the finding that tampering happened. If the true PSI numbers had been leaked at the outset of the situation (along with the fact that two different gauges with wildly conflicting measurements were used), the Patriots would have been able to explain the objective data away quickly by pointing to the operation Ideal Gas Law

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/author/floriomj/

It would be interesting if the league office had nothing to do with the initial leaks and it came from the Colts or the Colts beat reporters. It could have been the Colts talked to the Colts press guy about the Pats being investigated. The press guy then could have talked to Mortensen and exaggerated how underinflated the footballs were. The league itself stays out of it and the thing escalates like it's nobody's business. The league can let imaginations run wild, let the Pats hold press conferences and conduct science experiments, and let them twist in the wind while preparing for the SB. They could also claim they didn't leak anything and that they would not comment on an ongoing investigation.I personally don't think there was a sting operation the day of the game, but once things started going south for NE they really made no effort to stop the bleeding and essentially didn't care. They liked seeing the Pats squirm.

Mort's initial tweet on the subject specifically mentions "the NFL" and "league sources" - note the plural. There is no way this was a mistake by the League or Mort making something up. The NFL intentionally released wrong information. It's indisputable, borderline criminal, and could be the foundation for upcoming litigation by Kraft. I don't know how anyone can see it otherwise.

Here is Mort's famous tweet again from January 20th. Keep I mind that if the correct numbers were released, and the NFL had them, this all goes away and there is no Wells investigation. Pats got bagged - plain and simple.

"NFL has found that 11 of the Patriots footballs used in Sunday's AFC title game were under-inflated by 2 lbs each, per league sources."

 

[12punch]

Pats fans in a thread about the Patriots. What?

yeah, you know the world's a little nutty when I get most of my team info from articles pats hating trolls tracked down for me.

 

[12punch]

Not to quote myself, but am I seeing that, yes the Pats suspended them, but that the league has disallowed them from doing their jobs?

yeah, the league banned them from dealing with equipment and they'd need to get that privilege back through vincent (the league)

nothing unusual about any of this

No, nothing. Happens all the time to completely innocent, loyal employees . Especially the part about "no pay".

so, you think the deflator should be getting paid right now?

No, I think he is completely guilty, and I believe the Pats organization basically agrees with me based upon the punishment.

Assuming that to be correct, I see no reason why he would have done this without being instructed to by someone above him. If you use logic and connect the dots, they do seem to lead right to your golden boy. Whether there is enough proof to convict him a a real court - no idea. A lot of the potential proof probably was not allowed to be seen by the investigating team. But I see enough smoke to determine that there is probably a fire.

I also understand your need to defend your guy. I dont appreciate how you do it, but I understand it. I'm a fanboy too, and if I was lucky enough to have a golden boy on my golden-boy-devoid team and his legacy was going down in flames before my eyes, I'd probably feel the same way you do.

you seem a little hung up on 'golden boys'

just as an aside, not that it's relevant to anything, but just for accuracy in your future trolling --- you do understand the deflator is a part-time gameday guy who doesn't work 'til august, right?

kind of a nitpick, but you do understand this?

Why am I "trolling" because I am discussing a topic that interests me? I check in here every 4-5 pages occasionally calling out moronic posts from delusional fanboys, and I am the troll? You appear multiple times on every page, typically calling someone who disagrees with you a name. Not to nitpick, but if one of us is a "troll", it isnt me. Sorry I disagree with you and your buddies in here who refuse to see the whats right in front of them.

His part time employment is irrelevant. There were 2 employees, both of whom were suspended without pay. You dont do that to people who you think are innocent. Adrian Peterson was suspended WITH pay.

omg I found somebody getting personal --- I know how much that distresses you

adrian peterson is IN a union

 

[12punch]

One thing I have been meaning to post/ask was the timeline for all this. Many people have suggested that if Brady and NE fessed up from the get go that this would have blown over and nothing would have happened if Brady got in front of this from jump street. People have stated that if he held a press conference the beginning of the week after the AFCCG and said he likes his footballs prepared a certain way and on the softer side and he instructed the equipment guys roughly how he liked the footballs on game day but never got out a needle to check the inflation or told them to take air out that this would have been over then and there.

I tend to disagree, as the team was already under investigation, the football bag disappeared before the game, the footballs had to be checked at halftime, and things still would have looked funny. Similarly, people would have been calling for Brady to have been suspended for the SB, others would have wanted the Colts to advance and not NE, and we would have ended up where we are now just earlier on.

Had Brady come out and done what I just said, do people really think this would have simply gone away right after the AFCCG without people demanding for Brady's head on a platter?

personally, I believe that had the Patriots mounted their own investigation, caught their guy bringing game balls into an unattended bathroom and let him be the fall-guy, this all gets played out as a rogue agent acting independently. When the Broncos got busted video-taping walk-thrus and hit with a small fine, this is essentially what happened.

Brady goes on record saying that he likes the balls to be especially soft, especially in the cold, and had issues with refs over-inflating balls in the past. His guys took it upon themselves to make sure the refs didn't do that again, especially in a game as important as a championship game, but by no means did he instruct anyone to break any NFL rules, and from here-on out, the Patriots brass will be ever-vigilant to ensure every employee within the organization holds themselves up to a standard worthy of being a World Champion. Maybe toss something in there about how the organization learned their lessons from Spygate, and how ethics is priority number one in Foxboro and bending the rules is not tolerated.

Had this all happened, we would not be talking about this issue in May.

so, he gets suspended and you guys have a fit about it.

your solution --- throw him under the bus

ok

shark pool be sharkin'

 

[12punch]

The Pats did do an internal investigation, it's how they discovered the video of Mcnally taking the bags into the restroom among other things. But they found that atmospheric conditions explained the difference thinking Mcnally was innocent.

So they thought he was innocent...yet they suspended him without pay. Got it.

Florio continues to ask the right questions. It does feel like the worm is turning a bit.

The most troubling aspect of the entire situation continues to be the deliberate leak by the league office of ESPNs Chris Mortensen that 11 of the 12 footballs were a full two pounds below the 12.5-PSI minimum.

The leak of false information created a narrative the league never rebutted and fueled the appointment of Wells, which in turn resulted in a scorched-earth search for anything that could be used to support the finding that tampering happened. If the true PSI numbers had been leaked at the outset of the situation (along with the fact that two different gauges with wildly conflicting measurements were used), the Patriots would have been able to explain the objective data away quickly by pointing to the operation Ideal Gas Law

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/author/floriomj/

It would be interesting if the league office had nothing to do with the initial leaks and it came from the Colts or the Colts beat reporters. It could have been the Colts talked to the Colts press guy about the Pats being investigated. The press guy then could have talked to Mortensen and exaggerated how underinflated the footballs were. The league itself stays out of it and the thing escalates like it's nobody's business. The league can let imaginations run wild, let the Pats hold press conferences and conduct science experiments, and let them twist in the wind while preparing for the SB. They could also claim they didn't leak anything and that they would not comment on an ongoing investigation.I personally don't think there was a sting operation the day of the game, but once things started going south for NE they really made no effort to stop the bleeding and essentially didn't care. They liked seeing the Pats squirm.

Mort's initial tweet on the subject specifically mentions "the NFL" and "league sources" - note the plural. There is no way this was a mistake by the League or Mort making something up. The NFL intentionally released wrong information. It's indisputable, borderline criminal, and could be the foundation for upcoming litigation by Kraft. I don't know how anyone can see it otherwise.

Here is Mort's famous tweet again from January 20th. Keep I mind that if the correct numbers were released, and the NFL had them, this all goes away and there is no Wells investigation. Pats got bagged - plain and simple.

"NFL has found that 11 of the Patriots footballs used in Sunday's AFC title game were under-inflated by 2 lbs each, per league sources."

yeah, I'd be interested in who these 'league sources' specifically are

also, why the league felt teh need to cover up the accurate info --- that's kind of odd behavior

 

[The General]

Jastremski: Talked to him last night. He actually brought you up and said you must have a lot of stress trying to get them done...

How stressful is it to get a ball ready in a week?

Is it really so difficult to keep these two folks straight?

don't set the bar too high for these guys

How's this work into the story you have made up in your head:

Jastremski: Can't wait to give you your needle this week

McNally: #### tom....make sure the pump is attached to the

needle.....###in watermelons coming

 

[Jercules]

One thing I have been meaning to post/ask was the timeline for all this. Many people have suggested that if Brady and NE fessed up from the get go that this would have blown over and nothing would have happened if Brady got in front of this from jump street. People have stated that if he held a press conference the beginning of the week after the AFCCG and said he likes his footballs prepared a certain way and on the softer side and he instructed the equipment guys roughly how he liked the footballs on game day but never got out a needle to check the inflation or told them to take air out that this would have been over then and there.

I tend to disagree, as the team was already under investigation, the football bag disappeared before the game, the footballs had to be checked at halftime, and things still would have looked funny. Similarly, people would have been calling for Brady to have been suspended for the SB, others would have wanted the Colts to advance and not NE, and we would have ended up where we are now just earlier on.

Had Brady come out and done what I just said, do people really think this would have simply gone away right after the AFCCG without people demanding for Brady's head on a platter?

personally, I believe that had the Patriots mounted their own investigation, caught their guy bringing game balls into an unattended bathroom and let him be the fall-guy, this all gets played out as a rogue agent acting independently. When the Broncos got busted video-taping walk-thrus and hit with a small fine, this is essentially what happened.

Brady goes on record saying that he likes the balls to be especially soft, especially in the cold, and had issues with refs over-inflating balls in the past. His guys took it upon themselves to make sure the refs didn't do that again, especially in a game as important as a championship game, but by no means did he instruct anyone to break any NFL rules, and from here-on out, the Patriots brass will be ever-vigilant to ensure every employee within the organization holds themselves up to a standard worthy of being a World Champion. Maybe toss something in there about how the organization learned their lessons from Spygate, and how ethics is priority number one in Foxboro and bending the rules is not tolerated.

Had this all happened, we would not be talking about this issue in May.

Pure BS.

If there's one thing spygate proved, it's that people are unable and, more importantly, unwilling to deal with the Patriots in a rational manner.

Just looking at this thread gives you all the ammunition you need to make that argument. Otherwise rational, intelligent people willing to pretend a few under-inflated footballs "tarnishes a legacy" and "stains him forever" and "oh my God, MY GOD, THE CHILDREN!!! AAHHH!!!"

It's an open question as to whether the problem is with general public sentiment, or if it's other executives and owners with axes to grind, but nonetheless, when your team loses a 1st round draft pick and $250,000, and your head coach loses $500,000, because you had a guy videotaping in the wrong place, you'd be crazy to expect fairness the next time around.

 

[12punch]

Jastremski: Talked to him last night. He actually brought you up and said you must have a lot of stress trying to get them done...

How stressful is it to get a ball ready in a week?

Is it really so difficult to keep these two folks straight?

don't set the bar too high for these guys

How's this work into the story you have made up in your head:

Jastremski: Can't wait to give you your needle this week

McNally: #### tom....make sure the pump is attached to the

needle.....###in watermelons coming

he obviously plans to be off in the bathroom with watermelons and a can of brown paint

 

[Run It Up]

The Pats did do an internal investigation, it's how they discovered the video of Mcnally taking the bags into the restroom among other things. But they found that atmospheric conditions explained the difference thinking Mcnally was innocent.

So they thought he was innocent...yet they suspended him without pay. Got it.

This Fischer price babies first trolling is getting old. We get it, you - not unlike every five year old is capable of quoting text out of context and rattling off some strawman no one gives a #### about. For all this bluster about filling this thread up I haven't seen a post from you yet that isn't complete ####.

 

[Jercules]

Jastremski: Talked to him last night. He actually brought you up and said you must have a lot of stress trying to get them done...

How stressful is it to get a ball ready in a week?

Is it really so difficult to keep these two folks straight?

don't set the bar too high for these guys

How's this work into the story you have made up in your head:

Jastremski: Can't wait to give you your needle this week

McNally: #### tom....make sure the pump is attached to the

needle.....###in watermelons coming

The point they were making is that Brady was talking about McNally, the locker room attendant who had ostensibly nothing to do with preparing game balls (the guy Brady was talking to, the texter, Jastremski, is the guy 'with a week to prepare game balls').

That single text is the best piece of evidence there is that Brady had something to do with it, and it went totally over your head.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

The Pats did do an internal investigation, it's how they discovered the video of Mcnally taking the bags into the restroom among other things. But they found that atmospheric conditions explained the difference thinking Mcnally was innocent.

So they thought he was innocent...yet they suspended him without pay. Got it.

This Fischer price babies first trolling is getting old. We get it, you - not unlike every five year old is capable of quoting text out of context and rattling off some strawman no one gives a #### about. For all this bluster about filling this thread up I haven't seen a post from you yet that isn't complete ####.

Easy, Francis.

I am just trying to understand your incredibly flawed logic. I see now that once it cannot be explained in rational, adult terms, you like your other buddy in here turn to personal attacks...that ironically include calling me a 5 year old.

 

[12punch]

The Pats did do an internal investigation, it's how they discovered the video of Mcnally taking the bags into the restroom among other things. But they found that atmospheric conditions explained the difference thinking Mcnally was innocent.

So they thought he was innocent...yet they suspended him without pay. Got it.

This Fischer price babies first trolling is getting old. We get it, you - not unlike every five year old is capable of quoting text out of context and rattling off some strawman no one gives a #### about. For all this bluster about filling this thread up I haven't seen a post from you yet that isn't complete ####.

yeah, I thought the point of trolling was to produce posts

I mean, if the goal is to reduce posting there are about 10,000 troll posts in here we could probably deflate

 

[ChuckLiddell]

DIsagree with 12punch or Run it up, and you are automatically a troll. Call them out for ridiculously illogical posts, and you are a troll.

If those are the criteria for being a troll, I will own it...because all you guys seem to do is produce illogical posts that no logical person outside of your little world of Patriots fanboys would ever agree with, and that deserve to be called out. Its not Patriots hate...its delusional, irrational, ridiculous Patriots fans hate.

 

[12punch]

ok, now that we're in agreement that you're a troll maybe we can move on from that subject and your continual ad hominem attacks

edit:btw, I'm looking fwd to the day when 'salty troll' gets added to the public lexicon through use in some incriminating legal document

 

[The General]

Jastremski: Talked to him last night. He actually brought you up and said you must have a lot of stress trying to get them done...

How stressful is it to get a ball ready in a week?

Is it really so difficult to keep these two folks straight?

don't set the bar too high for these guys

How's this work into the story you have made up in your head:

Jastremski: Can't wait to give you your needle this week

McNally: #### tom....make sure the pump is attached to the

needle.....###in watermelons coming

The point they were making is that Brady was talking about McNally, the locker room attendant who had ostensibly nothing to do with preparing game balls (the guy Brady was talking to, the texter, Jastremski, is the guy 'with a week to prepare game balls').

That single text is the best piece of evidence there is that Brady had something to do with it, and it went totally over your head.

Thanks ########. Unlike a few others I won't edit a thread when responding.

I get that McNally didn't handle the balls all week after rereading that portion of the report. I was confused in that all the texts talked about him using needles so one would just assume he preps them all week. And, yes it this text makes it obvious that the guy was messing with the balls in that little window of time.

So back to the point I haven't yet heard a good explanation of this text. Maybe there was one in this 200 page pile of #### that I missed so if one of the Pats homers who lives in here can let me know what the current line is I'd appreciate it.

 

[General Tso]

There's definitely a scandal brewing here, and in my opinion one that will ultimately prove to be bigger than deflated footballs. Florio is starting to talk about it pretty relentlessly. Peter King has talked about it as well. Most of the respected reporters (outside of ESPN) have caught wind of it as well. Who knows, might be a Pulitzer Prize in the offing for one of these brave souls.

What started the whole public outcry and justified a 4 month $5 million Wells investigation was a false report - from the NFL - that the 11 balls measured were at 10.5. We know now that the average reading between the two gauges was actually 11.30. And if you go by the logo gauge, which the referee remembers to be the one he caibrated the balls with pregame to 12.5 - the actual average was 11.50. We know the balls decrease anywhere from 1-2 psi due to atmospheric conditions.

If this goes to court it will be the end of Roger Goodell.

 

[12punch]

If this goes to court it will be the end of Roger Goodell.

I've seen all kinds of speculation about this, and I always wonder how likely it is this would really bite him in the ###.

will these 31 other owners really give a crap if they're happy with all the money making goodell's supposedly doing?

will he be able to just throw some guy like kensil to the wolves, etc?

I really have no idea either way, but that kind of speculation usually comes off as wishful thinking.

and assuming goodell just doesn't do an amazing flip flop this will be going to court

 

[12punch]

I was confused

that's all you need to say --- pats fans don't judge or grudge

 

[FBG Moderator]

Let's knock the insults off. Disagreeing with someone else is fine. Insults and derogatory comments about others posters are not.

 

[davearm]

The Pats did do an internal investigation, it's how they discovered the video of Mcnally taking the bags into the restroom among other things. But they found that atmospheric conditions explained the difference thinking Mcnally was innocent.

So they thought he was innocent...yet they suspended him without pay. Got it.

This Fischer price babies first trolling is getting old. We get it, you - not unlike every five year old is capable of quoting text out of context and rattling off some strawman no one gives a #### about. For all this bluster about filling this thread up I haven't seen a post from you yet that isn't complete ####.

There's no need to go here.

The Pats have some explaining to do, around why they're simultaneously suspending guys, and claiming everyone is innocent and no wrongdoing took place.

 

[davearm]

The Pats did do an internal investigation, it's how they discovered the video of Mcnally taking the bags into the restroom among other things. But they found that atmospheric conditions explained the difference thinking Mcnally was innocent.

But the Pats don't believe McNally was innocent because they suspended him and Jastremski without pay! Some could argue that the suspensions for McNally and Jastremski are league imposed, but these guys were suspended on the day the Wells report was issued, which oddly lends support to the notion that the Pats thought the Report was credible enough to take away these employee's livelihoods indefinitely.

The fallacy in the Pats argument is that by taking action against McNally and Jastremski, the Pats have admitted some measure of organizational wrongdoing and can no longer play the "We didn't do nothing" card. Yet that is precisely the argument they are trying to make. It is logically inconsistent and is killing any measure of credibility they have.

You mean killing any measure of credibility they have left, after insulting everyone's intelligence with their comical explanations for the deflator and espn texts.

 

[12punch]

sometimes I wonder what it must be like to spend more time thinking about a team you hate than the team you like.

then the moment passes

 

[ChuckLiddell]

sometimes I wonder what it must be like to spend more time thinking about a team you hate than the team you like.

then the moment passes

Deep thoughts...

Come on, you know you love us salty haters. Without us, what would you do at work all day?

 

[The General]

sometimes I wonder what it must be like to spend more time thinking about a team you hate than the team you like.

then the moment passes

So about those texts.

 

[12punch]

sometimes I wonder what it must be like to spend more time thinking about a team you hate than the team you like.

then the moment passes

Deep thoughts...

Come on, you know you love us salty haters. Without us, what would you do at work all day?

probably talk about the pats, read about the pats, sneak off to a bathroom to deflate my balls, etc

 

[12punch]

sometimes I wonder what it must be like to spend more time thinking about a team you hate than the team you like.

then the moment passes

So about those texts.

about what texts?

 

[The General]

sometimes I wonder what it must be like to spend more time thinking about a team you hate than the team you like.

then the moment passes

So about those texts.

about what texts?

I know your answer will be garbage was wondering from a Pats fan a little more in touch with reality.

 

[12punch]

MMQB

Quotes of the Week

“Whats up dorito dink”

—Patriots officials locker room attendant Jim McNally, in a 2014 text message to fellow keeper of the footballs at Gillette Stadium John Jastremski, as relayed in the Patriots’ rebuttal to the Wells Report on Thursday.

 

[12punch]

sometimes I wonder what it must be like to spend more time thinking about a team you hate than the team you like.

then the moment passes

So about those texts.

about what texts?

I know your answer will be garbage was wondering from a Pats fan a little more in touch with reality.

then why were you asking me --- confused?

 

[Run It Up]

The only thing I thought was odd about the texts was the Deflator comment. But that was months before the AFCCG, and if you follow the time line, Brady didn't know there was a minimum PSI until after a midseason game when a referee had over inflated some of the Pats balls beyond the maximum and Brady snapped on Jestremski (and that information was relayed to Mcnally). After he found out it wasn't the Pats responsible for the balls being over inflated that game he told Jestremski to find the rule in the rule book and make sure the officials are informed not to inflate them past 12.5 in the future.

 

[12punch]

Manish Mehta Verified account ‏@MMehtaNYDN Brady's suspension opens door for Rex Ryan's Bills, who are the new favorite to win AFC East

check link for pic lolz

 

[General Tso]

Lots of talk in here about why the 2 ball boys were suspended. Not sure why everyone is focusing on this, but I'll play. Maybe the Pats didn't like the negative discussions about Brady? Maybe they didn't like JJ paying JM with shoes and autographed items? Maybe it's customary procedure to suspend people right after an investigation like this until everything gets sorted out?

I mean, there's a host of good reasons, none of which Prove any guilt in the main accusation of deflating balls on January 18th.

 

[The General]

sometimes I wonder what it must be like to spend more time thinking about a team you hate than the team you like.

then the moment passes

So about those texts.

about what texts?

I know your answer will be garbage was wondering from a Pats fan a little more in touch with reality.

then why were you asking me --- confused?

Shouldn't have bothered responding to you.

You have been given the texts multiple times and have lived this thing for weeks now. Can't believe you don't have some canned answer ready.

 

[Old Smiley]

Lots of talk in here about why the 2 ball boys were suspended. Not sure why everyone is focusing on this, but I'll play. Maybe the Pats didn't like the negative discussions about Brady? Maybe they didn't like JJ paying JM with shoes and autographed items? Maybe it's customary procedure to suspend people right after an investigation like this until everything gets sorted out?

I mean, there's a host of good reasons, none of which Prove any guilt in the main accusation of deflating balls on January 18th.

Yeah, they look toolish either way.

 

[Anarchy99]

Not sure what all the hub bub is about the two equipment guys. The league was going to suspend them on their own anyway . . . thus why they can't be reinstated without approval from the league.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

The only thing I thought was odd about the texts was the Deflator comment. But that was months before the AFCCG, and if you follow the time line, Brady didn't know there was a minimum PSI until after a midseason game when a referee had over inflated some of the Pats balls beyond the maximum and Brady snapped on Jestremski (and that information was relayed to Mcnally). After he found out it wasn't the Pats responsible for the balls being over inflated that game he told Jestremski to find the rule in the rule book and make sure the officials are informed not to inflate them past 12.5 in the future.

This is a start to having a civilized conversation about the matter at hand. So the text therefore shows that Brady in turn does communicate with Jestremski about ball pressure correct? I am not fishing just simply trying to show it from a neutral fan that perhaps Brady is not so innocent in this saga. That he in turn does tell the ball boys what the pressure should be. Now how far he communicated with those ball boys about bending the rules is what is up for argument.

If you don't believe there was any ball tampering at all then you are not thinking logically. Two of the ball boys have been suspended by the team. Thinking logically it is clear to see that move by the Pats shows that they feel these guys are the ones to blame.

Again I am not out to get Brady and think this whole mess is getting blown out of proportion. Brady will still go down as one of the greatest to play the game. Bellicheck is easily the best coach in the league and it could be argued that he is the best coach in sports right now (he and Popovich in the NBA).

I think the only defense that Kraft and Brady will have is that Brady did talk with the ball boys about making sure the balls were deflated, but not to cheat to do so or go to means that would cause the team a punishment. The punishment comes out and bam the Pats fire these guys. Who knows how long these guys were doing this prior to getting caught. Goodell obviously felt Brady played a large enough part to warrant a suspension. He then also felt that the Pats were not forth right with how it all went down and punished them as well. All of this again is debatable, but failing to acknowledge that there was at least some level of ball tampering is not logically thinking this whole fiasco out.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Not sure what all the hub bub is about the two equipment guys. The league was going to suspend them on their own anyway . . . thus why they can't be reinstated without approval from the league.

Really? You are not sure what the hub bub is about two equipment guys who were illegally tampering with game day balls and at the present time are the only ones permanently out of the job they were doing?

 

[The General]

The only thing I thought was odd about the texts was the Deflator comment. But that was months before the AFCCG, and if you follow the time line, Brady didn't know there was a minimum PSI until after a midseason game when a referee had over inflated some of the Pats balls beyond the maximum and Brady snapped on Jestremski (and that information was relayed to Mcnally). After he found out it wasn't the Pats responsible for the balls being over inflated that game he told Jestremski to find the rule in the rule book and make sure the officials are informed not to inflate them past 12.5 in the future.

It was brought up earlier about Brady not knowing there was a minimum PSI until in the middle of this season. Where is that from?

 

[The General]

The only thing I thought was odd about the texts was the Deflator comment. But that was months before the AFCCG, and if you follow the time line, Brady didn't know there was a minimum PSI until after a midseason game when a referee had over inflated some of the Pats balls beyond the maximum and Brady snapped on Jestremski (and that information was relayed to Mcnally). After he found out it wasn't the Pats responsible for the balls being over inflated that game he told Jestremski to find the rule in the rule book and make sure the officials are informed not to inflate them past 12.5 in the future.

What is McNallys role in prepping the balls?

 

[Run It Up]

The only thing I thought was odd about the texts was the Deflator comment. But that was months before the AFCCG, and if you follow the time line, Brady didn't know there was a minimum PSI until after a midseason game when a referee had over inflated some of the Pats balls beyond the maximum and Brady snapped on Jestremski (and that information was relayed to Mcnally). After he found out it wasn't the Pats responsible for the balls being over inflated that game he told Jestremski to find the rule in the rule book and make sure the officials are informed not to inflate them past 12.5 in the future.

It was brought up earlier about Brady not knowing there was a minimum PSI until in the middle of this season. Where is that from?

The Wells Report.

Pg 43:

Setting the Inflation Level

During this process, the inflation level is set at least two times, once prior to footballs being used in practice and once at the very end, on game day, just prior to Brady‟s selection of footballs for use in a game. When interviewed, Brady claimed to have known nothing about the permissible inflation range set by the NFL Playing Rules or the inflation range targeted by the Patriots until after the Patriots game against the New York Jets on October 16,2014. Similarly, Jastremski claimed to have never read Rule 2 prior to that game, although he acknowledged being generally aware of the permissible inflation range and of Brady‟s preference for footballs set “closer to 12.5 than 13.” According to Jastremski, before the October 2014 game against the Jets, it had been his practice to inflate Patriots game balls to a level.

At the request of the Patriots, this Report will not describe details of the ball preparation process that have not been publicly discussed by the Patriots.

Pg 44:

According to Brady, Jastremski and other Patriots personnel, during the October2014 Jets game, Brady complained angrily about the feel and inflation level of the game balls. He told Jastremski between drives that the balls felt “like bricks” and were heavier and harder to grip than they had been when he approved them prior to the game. Although Jastremski believed during the game that Brady was simply being competitive, he tested the air pressure of the gameballs the next morning, discovered that many of them were over-inflated, and told Brady that he was right. Following the Jets game, Brady and Jastremski had a number of conversations concerning the inflation level of game balls. According to Brady, at some point after the Jets game and before the game against the Chicago Bears the following weekend, he asked to see a copy of the applicable Playing Rule, learned for the first time that the permissible inflation range was 12.5 to 13.5 psi, and was told that the Patriots typically inflated game balls slightly above12.5 psi. Brady also stated that, at some point, he felt a football that was inflated to 12.5 psi, and decided that should be the target for all future games because he did “not ever want to get near the upper range again.” In addition, Brady stated that he suggested that the Patriots give the game officials a copy of Rule 2 when they delivered game balls prior to each game, so that the officials would know that it was not necessary to inflate them further. He claimed that doing so would help ensure that the officials did not alter the footballs he had approved. Jastremski stated that, starting with the October 26, 2014 game against the Bears, he set all game balls to 12.6 psi

Wells bull#### bookend of the above, on the same page:

We do not credit these statements and believe they are contradicted by other evidence including McNally‟s reference to himself as “the deflator” in a text message to Jastremski before the 2014-15 season and Brady‟s personal involvement in the 2006 rule change and apparent longstanding preference for footballs inflated at the low end of the permissible range.

 

[Bucky86]

The only thing I thought was odd about the texts was the Deflator comment. But that was months before the AFCCG, and if you follow the time line, Brady didn't know there was a minimum PSI until after a midseason game when a referee had over inflated some of the Pats balls beyond the maximum and Brady snapped on Jestremski (and that information was relayed to Mcnally). After he found out it wasn't the Pats responsible for the balls being over inflated that game he told Jestremski to find the rule in the rule book and make sure the officials are informed not to inflate them past 12.5 in the future.

This is a start to having a civilized conversation about the matter at hand. So the text therefore shows that Brady in turn does communicate with Jestremski about ball pressure correct? I am not fishing just simply trying to show it from a neutral fan that perhaps Brady is not so innocent in this saga. That he in turn does tell the ball boys what the pressure should be. Now how far he communicated with those ball boys about bending the rules is what is up for argument.

If you don't believe there was any ball tampering at all then you are not thinking logically. Two of the ball boys have been suspended by the team. Thinking logically it is clear to see that move by the Pats shows that they feel these guys are the ones to blame.

Again I am not out to get Brady and think this whole mess is getting blown out of proportion. Brady will still go down as one of the greatest to play the game. Bellicheck is easily the best coach in the league and it could be argued that he is the best coach in sports right now (he and Popovich in the NBA).

I think the only defense that Kraft and Brady will have is that Brady did talk with the ball boys about making sure the balls were deflated, but not to cheat to do so or go to means that would cause the team a punishment. The punishment comes out and bam the Pats fire these guys. Who knows how long these guys were doing this prior to getting caught. Goodell obviously felt Brady played a large enough part to warrant a suspension. He then also felt that the Pats were not forth right with how it all went down and punished them as well. All of this again is debatable, but failing to acknowledge that there was at least some level of ball tampering is not logically thinking this whole fiasco out.

SALTY SALT LICKERER

 

[Run It Up]

The only thing I thought was odd about the texts was the Deflator comment. But that was months before the AFCCG, and if you follow the time line, Brady didn't know there was a minimum PSI until after a midseason game when a referee had over inflated some of the Pats balls beyond the maximum and Brady snapped on Jestremski (and that information was relayed to Mcnally). After he found out it wasn't the Pats responsible for the balls being over inflated that game he told Jestremski to find the rule in the rule book and make sure the officials are informed not to inflate them past 12.5 in the future.

What is McNallys role in prepping the balls?

Jestremski is an assistant equipment manager, makes sure players get their stuff and its prepared w/e.

McNally actually prepares things, he does stuff like gloving and weathering balls. Its his job to deliver the balls to the officials to be inspected on gameday.

 

[12punch]

Not sure what all the hub bub is about the two equipment guys. The league was going to suspend them on their own anyway . . . thus why they can't be reinstated without approval from the league.

more probable than not internet trolling

 

[IvanKaramazov]

You guys do understand that you can simply not respond to 12punch and Run It Up, right? If you're deriving pleasure from smacking them around, then by all means continue. But obviously there's no productive conversation taking place with those guys.

 

[12punch]

The only thing I thought was odd about the texts was the Deflator comment. But that was months before the AFCCG, and if you follow the time line, Brady didn't know there was a minimum PSI until after a midseason game when a referee had over inflated some of the Pats balls beyond the maximum and Brady snapped on Jestremski (and that information was relayed to Mcnally). After he found out it wasn't the Pats responsible for the balls being over inflated that game he told Jestremski to find the rule in the rule book and make sure the officials are informed not to inflate them past 12.5 in the future.

What is McNallys role in prepping the balls?

could you really stop spamming these nonsense questions, plz?

is a 240 page document followed up by a 20,000 word reply not extensive enough source material for you?

https://wellsreportcontext.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/nep_psi_excerpts-from-emails-5_15_15.pdf

ctrl F 'schleps' ^^

 

[Anarchy99]

Not sure what all the hub bub is about the two equipment guys. The league was going to suspend them on their own anyway . . . thus why they can't be reinstated without approval from the league.

Really? You are not sure what the hub bub is about two equipment guys who were illegally tampering with game day balls and at the present time are the only ones permanently out of the job they were doing?

I meant the issue that there are suspended. People are making a huge deal that the Pats suspended them. It is abundantly clear the league was going to suspend them anyway. Perhaps the Patriots were told to suspend them immediately. If the Patriots didn't suspend them ASAP, the league would have.

 

[Bucky86]

You guys do understand that you can simply not respond to 12punch and Run It Up, right? If you're deriving pleasure from smacking them around, then by all means continue. But obviously there's no productive conversation taking place with those guys.

They've been on ignore for over a week for me.