Patriots being investigated after Colts game (5 Viewers)

[12punch]

Not sure what all the hub bub is about the two equipment guys. The league was going to suspend them on their own anyway . . . thus why they can't be reinstated without approval from the league.

Really? You are not sure what the hub bub is about two equipment guys who were illegally ALLEGEDLY tampering with game day balls and at the present time are the only ones BESIDES BRADY permanently out of the SUSPENDED ON THE job they were doing?

this is why professional writers have editors

I suppose I should refer you to my sig

 

[12punch]

US gov weighing in on defamegate

 

[espnespn]

The only thing I thought was odd about the texts was the Deflator comment. But that was months before the AFCCG, and if you follow the time line, Brady didn't know there was a minimum PSI until after a midseason game when a referee had over inflated some of the Pats balls beyond the maximum and Brady snapped on Jestremski (and that information was relayed to Mcnally). After he found out it wasn't the Pats responsible for the balls being over inflated that game he told Jestremski to find the rule in the rule book and make sure the officials are informed not to inflate them past 12.5 in the future.

This is a start to having a civilized conversation about the matter at hand. So the text therefore shows that Brady in turn does communicate with Jestremski about ball pressure correct? I am not fishing just simply trying to show it from a neutral fan that perhaps Brady is not so innocent in this saga. That he in turn does tell the ball boys what the pressure should be. Now how far he communicated with those ball boys about bending the rules is what is up for argument.

If you don't believe there was any ball tampering at all then you are not thinking logically. Two of the ball boys have been suspended by the team. Thinking logically it is clear to see that move by the Pats shows that they feel these guys are the ones to blame.

Again I am not out to get Brady and think this whole mess is getting blown out of proportion. Brady will still go down as one of the greatest to play the game. Bellicheck is easily the best coach in the league and it could be argued that he is the best coach in sports right now (he and Popovich in the NBA).

I think the only defense that Kraft and Brady will have is that Brady did talk with the ball boys about making sure the balls were deflated, but not to cheat to do so or go to means that would cause the team a punishment. The punishment comes out and bam the Pats fire these guys. Who knows how long these guys were doing this prior to getting caught. Goodell obviously felt Brady played a large enough part to warrant a suspension. He then also felt that the Pats were not forth right with how it all went down and punished them as well. All of this again is debatable, but failing to acknowledge that there was at least some level of ball tampering is not logically thinking this whole fiasco out.

Actually, if you believe 100% of what the refs said in the Wells Report, then McNally never had a chance to deflate balls in past games, because the balls are brought from the locker room to the field with the officials. Unless you think McNally was deflating balls on the sidelines and somehow never got caught on camera.

"Anderson understood that McNally was moving the balls to the sitting room area of the locker room, so that it would be more convenient for the officials to pick them up on their way out to the field. Anderson said that it is typical for locker room attendants throughout the League to help move the game balls towards the front of the locker room, but that the footballs do not leave the locker room until the officials give express permission for them to be brought to the field at or near the time the officials also walk to the field. Numerous other game officials described a similar practice."

 

[amnesiac]

so the Pats claim to be the ones that brought up the inflation levels and made the refs aware of the rule?

if there's any truth to that, my guess is after the Jets game, Brady told them to check the balls after the refs are done with them.

it's possible McNally checked the balls after the refs, which let out some additional air.

which combined with the wet and cold conditions explains the halftime readings of the balls in the AFCCG.

 

[GoBirds]

You guys do understand that you can simply not respond to 12punch and Run It Up, right? If you're deriving pleasure from smacking them around, then by all means continue. But obviously there's no productive conversation taking place with those guys.

They've been on ignore for over a week for me.

You are missing some pure comedy, might want to reconsider.

 

[Run It Up]

I think its almost impossible that if they are doing what they are alleged to have been doing, especially for any extended period of time, how they wouldn't have been caught on video.

Like the rule change that people keep bringing up, it was to allow VISITING teams to prepare their own balls. You'd think if there was another team in the league as the colts equipment manager suggested believed the Pats were doing this, #### even the Colts - you'd think they would have evidence of it. But no, nothing.

 

[General Tso]

so the Pats claim to be the ones that brought up the inflation levels and made the refs aware of the rule?

if there's any truth to that, my guess is after the Jets game, Brady told them to check the balls after the refs are done with them.

it's possible McNally checked the balls after the refs, which let out some additional air.

which combined with the wet and cold conditions explains the halftime readings of the balls in the AFCCG.

The 16.0 over-inflation by the refs from the Jets game is going to become a big part of this story at some point. Mark it.

 

[Devine Intervention]

Brady didn't know the psi levels rule until mid season??

Guy needs to read the rule book I guess.

 

[FBG Moderator]

Those who couldn't resist derogatory comments about other posters have gotten some time off.

If you cannot post without insulting others, then don't post.

 

[amnesiac]

so the Pats claim to be the ones that brought up the inflation levels and made the refs aware of the rule?

if there's any truth to that, my guess is after the Jets game, Brady told them to check the balls after the refs are done with them.

it's possible McNally checked the balls after the refs, which let out some additional air.

which combined with the wet and cold conditions explains the halftime readings of the balls in the AFCCG.

The 16.0 over-inflation by the refs from the Jets game is going to become a big part of this story at some point. Mark it.

it does beg the question, why in the world did they let them play that game with illegal balls?and why over-inflate them?

non of any of this whole thing makes any sense.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

NFL & Patriots are attempting to resolve their differences without appeal through "back-channel conversations." (via @AdamSchefter)

 

[Anarchy99]

As I mentioned 20 pages ago, why include the 16 PSI Jets game in the Wells report. It shows the OPPOSITE of what they are trying to prove.

 

[Anarchy99]

NFL & Patriots are attempting to resolve their differences without appeal through "back-channel conversations." (via @AdamSchefter)

Hmmm. Wonder if Brady is included in that or not.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

so the Pats claim to be the ones that brought up the inflation levels and made the refs aware of the rule?

if there's any truth to that, my guess is after the Jets game, Brady told them to check the balls after the refs are done with them.

it's possible McNally checked the balls after the refs, which let out some additional air.

which combined with the wet and cold conditions explains the halftime readings of the balls in the AFCCG.

The 16.0 over-inflation by the refs from the Jets game is going to become a big part of this story at some point. Mark it.

it does beg the question, why in the world did they let them play that game with illegal balls?and why over-inflate them?

non of any of this whole thing makes any sense.

who knows --- more probable than not one ball either gauged or felt a little low and the guy squirts 4 lbs of air in there without checking.

people do that kind of thing with their tires all the time and if anybody thinks this is some precision operating down to a tenth of a psi you're bs'ing yourself

 

[amnesiac]

NFL & Patriots are attempting to resolve their differences without appeal through "back-channel conversations." (via @AdamSchefter)

in other words, the way it should have been handled in the first place.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

To sum up this convo, it is dumb, and I apologize for contributing to the dumbness-industrial complex.

It is dumb having a process that results in multimillion-dollar investigations of ball inflation and a plain-vanilla discovery dispute. It is dumb when an accused team needs to spend time, money and 20,000 words to explain basic science to the NFL.

And I'm dumb writing this many words without legal secretaries and footnoting associate minions while getting paid 0% of Ted Wells' money. That is profoundly stupid.

http://abovethelaw.com/2015/05/should-tom-brady-sue-the-nfl-and-roger-goodell-a-deflategate-email-exchange/

 

[JIslander]

One thing I have been meaning to post/ask was the timeline for all this. Many people have suggested that if Brady and NE fessed up from the get go that this would have blown over and nothing would have happened if Brady got in front of this from jump street. People have stated that if he held a press conference the beginning of the week after the AFCCG and said he likes his footballs prepared a certain way and on the softer side and he instructed the equipment guys roughly how he liked the footballs on game day but never got out a needle to check the inflation or told them to take air out that this would have been over then and there.

I tend to disagree, as the team was already under investigation, the football bag disappeared before the game, the footballs had to be checked at halftime, and things still would have looked funny. Similarly, people would have been calling for Brady to have been suspended for the SB, others would have wanted the Colts to advance and not NE, and we would have ended up where we are now just earlier on.

Had Brady come out and done what I just said, do people really think this would have simply gone away right after the AFCCG without people demanding for Brady's head on a platter?

personally, I believe that had the Patriots mounted their own investigation, caught their guy bringing game balls into an unattended bathroom and let him be the fall-guy, this all gets played out as a rogue agent acting independently. When the Broncos got busted video-taping walk-thrus and hit with a small fine, this is essentially what happened.

Brady goes on record saying that he likes the balls to be especially soft, especially in the cold, and had issues with refs over-inflating balls in the past. His guys took it upon themselves to make sure the refs didn't do that again, especially in a game as important as a championship game, but by no means did he instruct anyone to break any NFL rules, and from here-on out, the Patriots brass will be ever-vigilant to ensure every employee within the organization holds themselves up to a standard worthy of being a World Champion. Maybe toss something in there about how the organization learned their lessons from Spygate, and how ethics is priority number one in Foxboro and bending the rules is not tolerated.

Had this all happened, we would not be talking about this issue in May.

Pure BS.

If there's one thing spygate proved, it's that people are unable and, more importantly, unwilling to deal with the Patriots in a rational manner.

Just looking at this thread gives you all the ammunition you need to make that argument. Otherwise rational, intelligent people willing to pretend a few under-inflated footballs "tarnishes a legacy" and "stains him forever" and "oh my God, MY GOD, THE CHILDREN!!! AAHHH!!!"

It's an open question as to whether the problem is with general public sentiment, or if it's other executives and owners with axes to grind, but nonetheless, when your team loses a 1st round draft pick and $250,000, and your head coach loses $500,000, because you had a guy videotaping in the wrong place, you'd be crazy to expect fairness the next time around.

LOL!! -- How dare we not deal rationally with a team that was blatantly cheating!!??!! this to me pretty much sums up where we are here...

 

[Bayhawks]

So Brady didn't know what the rule was, but he was one of the people mainly responsible for getting the rule changed that allowed home teams to prepare their own balls? And he's the same guy who admonished the Ravens to "read the rule book?".

While its certainly possible for it to be true that he didn't know the rule, even the most die-hard Pats fan has to understand why not everyone is going to blindly accept this as the gospel truth.

 

[Anarchy99]

NFL & Patriots are attempting to resolve their differences without appeal through "back-channel conversations." (via @AdamSchefter)

I see nothing about this on Schefter's Twitter account. Where did you find that blurb?

 

[Run It Up]

So Brady didn't know what the rule was, but he was one of the people mainly responsible for getting the rule changed that allowed home teams to prepare their own balls? And he's the same guy who admonished the Ravens to "read the rule book?".

While its certainly possible for it to be true that he didn't know the rule, even the most die-hard Pats fan has to understand why not everyone is going to blindly accept this as the gospel truth.

The rule change was specifically about how balls are prepared texture-wise, because home teams were supplying visiting teams with ####ty unprepared balls. Now visiting teams are allowed to prepare their own balls. Its entirely plausible Brady and most of the NFL didn't know the specifics of Rule 2.

Hard to convince anyone of anything when they perpetuate half-truths and complete misinformation.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

sry, should've sourced that -- it was a second hand twitter

https://twitter.com/SportsCenter/status/600439765029236736

 

[JIslander]

So Brady didn't know what the rule was, but he was one of the people mainly responsible for getting the rule changed that allowed home teams to prepare their own balls? And he's the same guy who admonished the Ravens to "read the rule book?".

While its certainly possible for it to be true that he didn't know the rule, even the most die-hard Pats fan has to understand why not everyone is going to blindly accept this as the gospel truth.

The rule change was specifically about how balls are prepared texture-wise, because home teams were supplying visiting teams with ####ty unprepared balls. Now visiting teams are allowed to prepare their own balls.

Hard to convince anyone of anything when they perpetuate half-truths and complete misinformation.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

So Brady didn't know what the rule was, but he was one of the people mainly responsible for getting the rule changed that allowed home teams to prepare their own balls? And he's the same guy who admonished the Ravens to "read the rule book?".

While its certainly possible for it to be true that he didn't know the rule, even the most die-hard Pats fan has to understand why not everyone is going to blindly accept this as the gospel truth.

home teams always prepared their own balls --- what are you talking about?

 

[espnespn]

To sum up this convo, it is dumb, and I apologize for contributing to the dumbness-industrial complex.

It is dumb having a process that results in multimillion-dollar investigations of ball inflation and a plain-vanilla discovery dispute. It is dumb when an accused team needs to spend time, money and 20,000 words to explain basic science to the NFL.

And I'm dumb writing this many words without legal secretaries and footnoting associate minions while getting paid 0% of Ted Wells' money. That is profoundly stupid.

http://abovethelaw.com/2015/05/should-tom-brady-sue-the-nfl-and-roger-goodell-a-deflategate-email-exchange/

Maybe this will quiet down the chorus of wanna-be lawyers and third-rate actual lawyers on this thread who keep yammering that the evidence vs. the Patriots in the Wells Report is undisputed.

"[SIZE=11.5pt]I've seen the science stuff in both reports, and also things written from the stat variation side or from the physics side from outsiders, and I have a hard time seeing how they support a finding of more likely than not cheating.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11.5pt]The greatest difficulty from a true science perspective is that the game day protocols, measuring tools given, atmospheric conditions end up being a lot of guesses. But even with a lot of those guesses, a very good case can be made that the results of the measurements are just plain old science and not cheating.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11.5pt]It is discomforting that the Wells Report seems to go out of its way to minimize the issues with the data. That's not consistent with good science or good independent investigations."[/SIZE]

 

[Run It Up]

So Brady didn't know what the rule was, but he was one of the people mainly responsible for getting the rule changed that allowed home teams to prepare their own balls? And he's the same guy who admonished the Ravens to "read the rule book?".

While its certainly possible for it to be true that he didn't know the rule, even the most die-hard Pats fan has to understand why not everyone is going to blindly accept this as the gospel truth.

The rule change was specifically about how balls are prepared texture-wise, because home teams were supplying visiting teams with ####ty unprepared balls. Now visiting teams are allowed to prepare their own balls.

Hard to convince anyone of anything when they perpetuate half-truths and complete misinformation.

:bad post:

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

Matt Light to turn ‘ridiculous circus’ of Deflategate into positive with ticket raffle to Patriots-Colts Week 5 game

Matt Light didn’t hold anything back Monday night speaking at Rob Ninkovich‘s charity event, “Ninko’s Ping Pong Challenge” at Blazing Paddles next to Fenway Park. The former Patriots offensive linemen called everyone out, from Roger Goodell to Boston sports radio hosts.

He is now even looking to turn Deflategate into a positive by having a raffle to benefit The Light Foundation, which strives to instill and augment the values of responsibility, accountability and hard work by providing youth with unique outdoor learning experiences that assist them in reaching their highest potential.

The winner of the raffle wins a seat on a private jet with Light to Indianapolis for the Patriots’ Week 5 matchup with the Colts (Tom Brady‘s first game back if the four-game suspension holds). The winner gets two tickets to the game, a Tom Brady autographed football “inflated to your PSI standards,” among other things.

Roger [Goodell], if you’re listening, we may raise enough money to have you attend one of our leadership camps.”

http://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports/newengland/football/patriots/2015/05/18/matt-light-to-turn-ridiculous-circus-of-deflategate-into-positive-with-ticket-raffle/

 

[JIslander]

So Brady didn't know what the rule was, but he was one of the people mainly responsible for getting the rule changed that allowed home teams to prepare their own balls? And he's the same guy who admonished the Ravens to "read the rule book?".

While its certainly possible for it to be true that he didn't know the rule, even the most die-hard Pats fan has to understand why not everyone is going to blindly accept this as the gospel truth.

The rule change was specifically about how balls are prepared texture-wise, because home teams were supplying visiting teams with ####ty unprepared balls. Now visiting teams are allowed to prepare their own balls.

Hard to convince anyone of anything when they perpetuate half-truths and complete misinformation.

:bad post:

:waste of interweb post:

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

So Brady didn't know what the rule was, but he was one of the people mainly responsible for getting the rule changed that allowed home teams to prepare their own balls? And he's the same guy who admonished the Ravens to "read the rule book?".

While its certainly possible for it to be true that he didn't know the rule, even the most die-hard Pats fan has to understand why not everyone is going to blindly accept this as the gospel truth.

The rule change was specifically about how balls are prepared texture-wise, because home teams were supplying visiting teams with ####ty unprepared balls. Now visiting teams are allowed to prepare their own balls. Its entirely plausible Brady and most of the NFL didn't know the specifics of Rule 2.

Hard to convince anyone of anything when they perpetuate half-truths and complete misinformation.

I have noticed a pretty consistent pattern when it comes to trolling this topic ---

1 - spew out a bunch of made up stuff or misinformation

2 - cry about the above

4 - PROFIT!!

 

[JIslander]

NFL & Patriots are attempting to resolve their differences without appeal through "back-channel conversations." (via @AdamSchefter)

I see nothing about this on Schefter's Twitter account. Where did you find that blurb?

they can't handle the "truth"

 

[moleculo]

To sum up this convo, it is dumb, and I apologize for contributing to the dumbness-industrial complex.

It is dumb having a process that results in multimillion-dollar investigations of ball inflation and a plain-vanilla discovery dispute. It is dumb when an accused team needs to spend time, money and 20,000 words to explain basic science to the NFL.

And I'm dumb writing this many words without legal secretaries and footnoting associate minions while getting paid 0% of Ted Wells' money. That is profoundly stupid.

http://abovethelaw.com/2015/05/should-tom-brady-sue-the-nfl-and-roger-goodell-a-deflategate-email-exchange/

Maybe this will quiet down the chorus of wanna-be lawyers and third-rate actual lawyers on this thread who keep yammering that the evidence vs. the Patriots in the Wells Report is undisputed.

"I've seen the science stuff in both reports, and also things written from the stat variation side or from the physics side from outsiders, and I have a hard time seeing how they support a finding of more likely than not cheating.

The greatest difficulty from a true science perspective is that the game day protocols, measuring tools given, atmospheric conditions end up being a lot of guesses. But even with a lot of those guesses, a very good case can be made that the results of the measurements are just plain old science and not cheating.

It is discomforting that the Wells Report seems to go out of its way to minimize the issues with the data. That's not consistent with good science or good independent investigations."

He's right. Wells does a pretty poor job of explaining the science. You have to dig into the Exponent report to get a handle on it.Wells' overall conclusions, however, are valid, IMO.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

NFL & Patriots are attempting to resolve their

differences without appeal through "back-channel conversations." (via @AdamSchefter)

in other words, the way it should have been handled in the first place.

If I'm the Pats I wouldn't consider anything more than 1M fine and the 4th round pick.

 

[Run It Up]

Union and Tom Brady's Lawyers Threaten to Challenge Suspension in Court.

“The NFLPA believes that neither Commissioner Goodell nor anyone with close ties to the NFL can serve as arbitrator in Mr. Brady’s appeal,” the letter said.

“If the Commissioner does not appoint such a neutral arbitrator, the NFLPA and Mr. Brady will seek recusal and pursue all available relief to obtain an arbitrator who is not evidently partial,” it added.

The team has not said whether it will appeal its penalties, which include losing a first-round draft pick next year and a fourth-round pick in 2017.

The deadline to appeal is May 21.

And now we wait.

 

[espnespn]

To sum up this convo, it is dumb, and I apologize for contributing to the dumbness-industrial complex.

It is dumb having a process that results in multimillion-dollar investigations of ball inflation and a plain-vanilla discovery dispute. It is dumb when an accused team needs to spend time, money and 20,000 words to explain basic science to the NFL.

And I'm dumb writing this many words without legal secretaries and footnoting associate minions while getting paid 0% of Ted Wells' money. That is profoundly stupid.

http://abovethelaw.com/2015/05/should-tom-brady-sue-the-nfl-and-roger-goodell-a-deflategate-email-exchange/

Maybe this will quiet down the chorus of wanna-be lawyers and third-rate actual lawyers on this thread who keep yammering that the evidence vs. the Patriots in the Wells Report is undisputed.

"I've seen the science stuff in both reports, and also things written from the stat variation side or from the physics side from outsiders, and I have a hard time seeing how they support a finding of more likely than not cheating.

The greatest difficulty from a true science perspective is that the game day protocols, measuring tools given, atmospheric conditions end up being a lot of guesses. But even with a lot of those guesses, a very good case can be made that the results of the measurements are just plain old science and not cheating.

It is discomforting that the Wells Report seems to go out of its way to minimize the issues with the data. That's not consistent with good science or good independent investigations."

He's right. Wells does a pretty poor job of explaining the science. You have to dig into the Exponent report to get a handle on it.Wells' overall conclusions, however, are valid, IMO.

Reasonable people can disagree, since there is plenty of evidence in the Wells Report going both ways.

http://abovethelaw.com/2015/05/should-tom-brady-sue-the-nfl-and-roger-goodell-a-deflategate-email-exchange/

"[SIZE=11.5pt]“Ultimately, I think if you are going to judge three people as liars, you should have far better evidence than the Wells Report gave. I don't think there is any evidence in just the Wells Report alone that says that more likely than not they cheated about PSI.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11.5pt]It's full of inferrences, many of them huge leaps of logic, and inadequate science.”[/SIZE]

 

[BustedKnuckles]

well its easy to see who got the time outs ......not worth it guys

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

Matt Light's Inflation Nation Raffle

Grand Prize:

• Winner and a guest will watch the New England Patriots take on the Indianapolis Colts at Lucas Oil Stadium on Sunday, October 18th, 2015 at 8:30 PM
• Winner will receive one autographed Tom Brady football, inflated to your PSI standards
• Winner and guest will fly in a private jet with Matt Light and his friends to the game
• Winner and guest will receive roundtrip coach air fare to Boston (If needed, if used, $2,000 maximum)
• Winner and guest will dine at one of Indy's best restaurants
• Winner and guest will receive one night hotel accommodations at the JW Marriot located in downtown Indy (single room, double occuancy) for Sunday, October 18th, 2015
• Winner and guest will receive transportation to and from the game
• Winner will be awarded a cash prize in the amount of $1,995.00 to mitigate the winner's tax liability that results from winning the raffle. This prize is withheld and paid, on behalf of the winner, directly to the Internal Revenue Service ($1,680.00) and the Commonwealth of Massachusetts ($315.00). CFC reserves the right to adjust the value of this prize item depending on the actual value of prizes received.

"You can say whatever you want in this world until you get punched in the mouth" Matt Light.

 

[GoBirds]

To sum up this convo, it is dumb, and I apologize for contributing to the dumbness-industrial complex.

It is dumb having a process that results in multimillion-dollar investigations of ball inflation and a plain-vanilla discovery dispute. It is dumb when an accused team needs to spend time, money and 20,000 words to explain basic science to the NFL.

And I'm dumb writing this many words without legal secretaries and footnoting associate minions while getting paid 0% of Ted Wells' money. That is profoundly stupid.

http://abovethelaw.com/2015/05/should-tom-brady-sue-the-nfl-and-roger-goodell-a-deflategate-email-exchange/

Maybe this will quiet down the chorus of wanna-be lawyers and third-rate actual lawyers on this thread who keep yammering that the evidence vs. the Patriots in the Wells Report is undisputed.

"I've seen the science stuff in both reports, and also things written from the stat variation side or from the physics side from outsiders, and I have a hard time seeing how they support a finding of more likely than not cheating.

The greatest difficulty from a true science perspective is that the game day protocols, measuring tools given, atmospheric conditions end up being a lot of guesses. But even with a lot of those guesses, a very good case can be made that the results of the measurements are just plain old science and not cheating.

It is discomforting that the Wells Report seems to go out of its way to minimize the issues with the data. That's not consistent with good science or good independent investigations."

He's right. Wells does a pretty poor job of explaining the science. You have to dig into the Exponent report to get a handle on it.Wells' overall conclusions, however, are valid, IMO.

Reasonable people can disagree, since there is plenty of evidence in the Wells Report going both ways.

http://abovethelaw.com/2015/05/should-tom-brady-sue-the-nfl-and-roger-goodell-a-deflategate-email-exchange/

"Ultimately, I think if you are going to judge three people as liars, you should have far better evidence than the Wells Report gave. I don't think there is any evidence in just the Wells Report alone that says that more likely than not they cheated about PSI.

It's full of inferrences, many of them huge leaps of logic, and inadequate science.

If they were going to say they 100% did it then you could say they needed more evidence but for the way they qualified it with more likely than not it would seem to be plenty of evidence.

 

[Old Smiley]

well its easy to see who got the time outs ......not worth it guys

You suck!

 

[davearm]

The only thing I thought was odd about the texts was the Deflator comment. But that was months before the AFCCG, and if you follow the time line, Brady didn't know there was a minimum PSI until after a midseason game when a referee had over inflated some of the Pats balls beyond the maximum and Brady snapped on Jestremski (and that information was relayed to Mcnally). After he found out it wasn't the Pats responsible for the balls being over inflated that game he told Jestremski to find the rule in the rule book and make sure the officials are informed not to inflate them past 12.5 in the future.

What is McNallys role in prepping the balls?

Jestremski is an assistant equipment manager, makes sure players get their stuff and its prepared w/e.

McNally actually prepares things, he does stuff like gloving and weathering balls. Its his job to deliver the balls to the officials to be inspected on gameday.

McNally does none of these things, except deliver the balls to the officials on gameday. The only day McNally works is gameday.

Gloving and weathering is done well before gameday, by Jastremski and probably others.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

well its easy to see who got the time outs ......not worth it guys

You suck!

no...i lick

 

[General Tso]

New theory as to what may have happened, and I think it jives with the evidence and the text messages. For me the damning evidence against the Pats is one simple text (from Jastremski to McNally):

Can‟t wait to give you your needle this week

Why would JJ say this? Why would JM need a needle if he doesn't get involved with the ball prep? The Pats rebuttle says that it's because when the refs inspect the balls they occasionally need a needle to inflate or deflate balls that are out of spec. Sounds to me like BS and it certainly doesn't explain the context of the text or why it had the smiley face at the end. But then a thought occurred to me, and it supports my original thoughts about the deflation issue when it came up last January...What if the funny business going on with the balls is nothing more than the Pats trying to sneak in deflated balls, or heated balls, to the refs during inspection? What if that is the extent of it? We know the Pats got caught a few weeks before submitting balls for the Jets game that were below 12.5 and the refs subsequently pumped some of them up to 16.0 (per JJ's measurements the next morning). In this context "giving McNally the needle" is much more understandable, like "Hey, get ready to have to come see me for a needle because the balls are coming in low again and will probably need to be pumped up".

I thought from the beginning that this is probably what was going on. It's pushing the envelope, but not breaking the rules. It also explains Brady's strange answer when asked if he thought he was cheating and he said, "No, I don't think so". It also takes into account what I think we all can agree on - that the NFL is borderline incompetent and was probably very loose-goosey with regard to refs consistently gauging the balls pregame. I bet it varied from ref to ref, where some would use a gauge and reinflate while others probably just squeezed the balls.

It also jives with the scientific data in the Wells Report. I don't think the psi readings show any proof of tampering after the pregame inspection. In fact, if you believe Walt Anderson's recollection about using the logo gauage pregame then the evidence actually proves the Pats did not tamper.

 

[davearm]

Actually, if you believe 100% of what the refs said in the Wells Report, then McNally never had a chance to deflate balls in past games, because the balls are brought from the locker room to the field with the officials. Unless you think McNally was deflating balls on the sidelines and somehow never got caught on camera.

"Anderson understood that McNally was moving the balls to the sitting room area of the locker room, so that it would be more convenient for the officials to pick them up on their way out to the field. Anderson said that it is typical for locker room attendants throughout the League to help move the game balls towards the front of the locker room, but that the footballs do not leave the locker room until the officials give express permission for them to be brought to the field at or near the time the officials also walk to the field. Numerous other game officials described a similar practice."

McNally is the Officials' Locker Room Attendant. He's alone in the locker room with the footballs, post inspection, for roughly 15-20 minutes on gameday, while the officials are on the field for their warmups.

That room is typically empty at that time, but was buzzing with activity during the AFCCG, a) because there were just more league folks in attendance that day, and b) because the NFCCG was airing on the TV, and folks were milling around watching it.

It's pretty obvious (to me anyway) that if all of this is true, then McNally typically does his dirty work in the refs' room while they warm up, but he was forced to improvise during the AFCCG due to all the traffic in the room that day.

 

[General Tso]

Actually, if you believe 100% of what the refs said in the Wells Report, then McNally never had a chance to deflate balls in past games, because the balls are brought from the locker room to the field with the officials. Unless you think McNally was deflating balls on the sidelines and somehow never got caught on camera.

"Anderson understood that McNally was moving the balls to the sitting room area of the locker room, so that it would be more convenient for the officials to pick them up on their way out to the field. Anderson said that it is typical for locker room attendants throughout the League to help move the game balls towards the front of the locker room, but that the footballs do not leave the locker room until the officials give express permission for them to be brought to the field at or near the time the officials also walk to the field. Numerous other game officials described a similar practice."

McNally is the Officials' Locker Room Attendant. He's alone in the locker room with the footballs, post inspection, for roughly 15-20 minutes on gameday, while the officials are on the field for their warmups.

That room is typically empty at that time, but was buzzing with activity during the AFCCG, a) because there were just more league folks in attendance that day, and b) because the NFCCG was airing on the TV, and folks were milling around watching it.

It's pretty obvious (to me anyway) that if all of this is true, then McNally typically does his dirty work in the refs' room while they warm up, but he was forced to improvise during the AFCCG due to all the traffic in the room that day.

Can you cite your source for that? Seems like a pretty important fact and I don't remember reading it in the report.

 

[Run It Up]

The only thing I thought was odd about the texts was the Deflator comment. But that was months before the AFCCG, and if you follow the time line, Brady didn't know there was a minimum PSI until after a midseason game when a referee had over inflated some of the Pats balls beyond the maximum and Brady snapped on Jestremski (and that information was relayed to Mcnally). After he found out it wasn't the Pats responsible for the balls being over inflated that game he told Jestremski to find the rule in the rule book and make sure the officials are informed not to inflate them past 12.5 in the future.

What is McNallys role in prepping the balls?

Jestremski is an assistant equipment manager, makes sure players get their stuff and its prepared w/e.

McNally actually prepares things, he does stuff like gloving and weathering balls. Its his job to deliver the balls to the officials to be inspected on gameday.

McNally does none of these things, except deliver the balls to the officials on gameday. The only day McNally works is gameday.

Gloving and weathering is done well before gameday, by Jastremski and probably others.

You're right, I had to go back and look it up. McNally is the game day guy that makes sure the balls get to the officials and is the officials locker room attendant. Jestremski's official title actually is assistant equipment manager but his responsibilities are preparing footballs using various techniques. The Wells report says Jestremski prepares footballs pretty much all week leading up to a game and called the practice 'extensive'.

Wells Report Pg 38:

Although Jastremski occasionally receives assistance from other members of the equipment staff, he is responsible for the ball preparation process from start to finish. Jastremski and others explained in detail how the Patriots prepare footballs in accordance with Brady's preferences.

Among other things, to prepare the game balls, Jastremski uses a wet towel to remove the preservative coating or film that Wilson uses to treat the surface of NFL footballs, brushes the balls using brushes supplied by Wilson, treats the balls with dirt, and will generally apply a leather conditioner to the balls.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

New theory as to what may have happened, and I think it jives with the evidence and the text messages. For me the damning evidence against the Pats is one simple text (from Jastremski to McNally):

Can‟t wait to give you your needle this week

Why would JJ say this? Why would JM need a needle if he doesn't get involved with the ball prep? The Pats rebuttle says that it's because when the refs inspect the balls they occasionally need a needle to inflate or deflate balls that are out of spec. Sounds to me like BS and it certainly doesn't explain the context of the text or why it had the smiley face at the end. But then a thought occurred to me, and it supports my original thoughts about the deflation issue when it came up last January...

so, your suggestion is that dorito dink has been giving the deflator a fresh needle every week for the past 6 years?

and this is because..........

.........they wear out after 12 balls?

.......he gets them autographed by brady and sells them at sports memorabilia stores.....?

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

Actually, if you believe 100% of what the refs said in the Wells Report, then McNally never had a chance to deflate balls in past games, because the balls are brought from the locker room to the field with the officials. Unless you think McNally was deflating balls on the sidelines and somehow never got caught on camera.

"Anderson understood that McNally was moving the balls to the sitting room area of the locker room, so that it would be more convenient for the officials to pick them up on their way out to the field. Anderson said that it is typical for locker room attendants throughout the League to help move the game balls towards the front of the locker room, but that the footballs do not leave the locker room until the officials give express permission for them to be brought to the field at or near the time the officials also walk to the field. Numerous other game officials described a similar practice."

McNally is the Officials' Locker Room Attendant. He's alone in the locker room with the footballs, post inspection, for roughly 15-20 minutes on gameday, while the officials are on the field for their warmups.

That room is typically empty at that time, but was buzzing with activity during the AFCCG, a) because there were just more league folks in attendance that day, and b) because the NFCCG was airing on the TV, and folks were milling around watching it.

It's pretty obvious (to me anyway) that if all of this is true, then McNally typically does his dirty work in the refs' room while they warm up, but he was forced to improvise during the AFCCG due to all the traffic in the room that day.

how much air does he let out while doing his dirty work?

 

[General Tso]

New theory as to what may have happened, and I think it jives with the evidence and the text messages. For me the damning evidence against the Pats is one simple text (from Jastremski to McNally):

Can‟t wait to give you your needle this week

Why would JJ say this? Why would JM need a needle if he doesn't get involved with the ball prep? The Pats rebuttle says that it's because when the refs inspect the balls they occasionally need a needle to inflate or deflate balls that are out of spec. Sounds to me like BS and it certainly doesn't explain the context of the text or why it had the smiley face at the end. But then a thought occurred to me, and it supports my original thoughts about the deflation issue when it came up last January...

so, your suggestion is that dorito dink has been giving the deflator a fresh needle every week for the past 6 years?

and this is because..........

.........they wear out after 12 balls?

.......he gets them autographed by brady and sells them at sports memorabilia stores.....?

Where does it say he gives him a fresh needle every week for 6 years?He is saying, "I can't wait until you come you come to my office to get the needle again when the refs have to pump up the balls".

 

[davearm]

Actually, if you believe 100% of what the refs said in the Wells Report, then McNally never had a chance to deflate balls in past games, because the balls are brought from the locker room to the field with the officials. Unless you think McNally was deflating balls on the sidelines and somehow never got caught on camera.

"Anderson understood that McNally was moving the balls to the sitting room area of the locker room, so that it would be more convenient for the officials to pick them up on their way out to the field. Anderson said that it is typical for locker room attendants throughout the League to help move the game balls towards the front of the locker room, but that the footballs do not leave the locker room until the officials give express permission for them to be brought to the field at or near the time the officials also walk to the field. Numerous other game officials described a similar practice."

McNally is the Officials' Locker Room Attendant. He's alone in the locker room with the footballs, post inspection, for roughly 15-20 minutes on gameday, while the officials are on the field for their warmups.

That room is typically empty at that time, but was buzzing with activity during the AFCCG, a) because there were just more league folks in attendance that day, and b) because the NFCCG was airing on the TV, and folks were milling around watching it.

It's pretty obvious (to me anyway) that if all of this is true, then McNally typically does his dirty work in the refs' room while they warm up, but he was forced to improvise during the AFCCG due to all the traffic in the room that day.

how much air does he let out while doing his dirty work?

We'd have to ask Tom Brady.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

Actually, if you believe 100% of what the refs said in the Wells Report, then McNally never had a chance to deflate balls in past games, because the balls are brought from the locker room to the field with the officials. Unless you think McNally was deflating balls on the sidelines and somehow never got caught on camera.

"Anderson understood that McNally was moving the balls to the sitting room area of the locker room, so that it would be more convenient for the officials to pick them up on their way out to the field. Anderson said that it is typical for locker room attendants throughout the League to help move the game balls towards the front of the locker room, but that the footballs do not leave the locker room until the officials give express permission for them to be brought to the field at or near the time the officials also walk to the field. Numerous other game officials described a similar practice."

McNally is the Officials' Locker Room Attendant. He's alone in the locker room with the footballs, post inspection, for roughly 15-20 minutes on gameday, while the officials are on the field for their warmups.

That room is typically empty at that time, but was buzzing with activity during the AFCCG, a) because there were just more league folks in attendance that day, and b) because the NFCCG was airing on the TV, and folks were milling around watching it.

It's pretty obvious (to me anyway) that if all of this is true, then McNally typically does his dirty work in the refs' room while they warm up, but he was forced to improvise during the AFCCG due to all the traffic in the room that day.

how much air does he let out while doing his dirty work?

We'd have to ask Tom Brady.

for a bunch of guys who have this all figured out, and with all the measurements and data of the wells report to draw on, you're all pretty evasive about this ---- I can never get a straight answer to this question, only smartass comments.

why would we need to ask tom brady anything if all the balls have been gauged and recorded in a 240 page document?

either something happened or it didn't --- all I'm asking is what you're accusing them of, specifically.

or did you just see the ball on tv and it didn't look right to you?

 

[davearm]

Actually, if you believe 100% of what the refs said in the Wells Report, then McNally never had a chance to deflate balls in past games, because the balls are brought from the locker room to the field with the officials. Unless you think McNally was deflating balls on the sidelines and somehow never got caught on camera.

"Anderson understood that McNally was moving the balls to the sitting room area of the locker room, so that it would be more convenient for the officials to pick them up on their way out to the field. Anderson said that it is typical for locker room attendants throughout the League to help move the game balls towards the front of the locker room, but that the footballs do not leave the locker room until the officials give express permission for them to be brought to the field at or near the time the officials also walk to the field. Numerous other game officials described a similar practice."

McNally is the Officials' Locker Room Attendant. He's alone in the locker room with the footballs, post inspection, for roughly 15-20 minutes on gameday, while the officials are on the field for their warmups.

That room is typically empty at that time, but was buzzing with activity during the AFCCG, a) because there were just more league folks in attendance that day, and b) because the NFCCG was airing on the TV, and folks were milling around watching it.

It's pretty obvious (to me anyway) that if all of this is true, then McNally typically does his dirty work in the refs' room while they warm up, but he was forced to improvise during the AFCCG due to all the traffic in the room that day.

Can you cite your source for that? Seems like a pretty important fact and I don't remember reading it in the report.

Footnote 34, page 62:

Whether McNally frequently, infrequently or never leaves the Officials Locker Room before the game officials depart for the field is not determinative of whether there has been an opportunity to tamper with game balls during the regular season. The game officials we interviewed — when considering the potential for tampering with the game balls — almost uniformly expressed greater concern that a locker room attendant generally has up to fifteen or twenty minutes alone with the game balls when the game officials are on the field for the pre-game walk-through approximately fifty minutes before kickoff (and after the balls have been inspected). The physical configuration of the Officials Locker Room at Gillette Stadium, with a back dressing area separated by a door from a sitting room area, would provide complete privacy during this time period. Indeed, even the sitting area is generally quiet at that time during the regular season, unlike the busy scene during a playoff game. Milton Britton, the regular season k-ball coordinator for the Patriots, reported that he regularly watches ESPN in the sitting room area while everyone else is on the field and stated that “nine out of ten times” the sitting room is otherwise empty, apart from McNally. On the night of the AFC Championship Game, however, the Officials Locker Room was crowded and McNally is unlikely to have had an opportunity to tamper with the balls in the locker room without being detected.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

Milton Britton, the regular season k-ball coordinator for the Patriots

this guy was in on it, too?

is his interview in the report?