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Patriots being investigated after Colts game (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter HobbesAB
- Start date
So those formations are legal?Dude, how hard is it provide a reference to a rule that you keep saying is there? You are like the Ravens falsely whining about the Patriots illegal formations.
Please provide a link to the supposed "rule" you say is there.
I've already provided a link before that clearly disputes your claim.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d802456c2/printable/belichick-speaks-with-goodell-apologizes-for-videotape-flap
Old Smiley
Footballguy
Old Smiley
Footballguy
Not anymore.So those formations are legal?Dude, how hard is it provide a reference to a rule that you keep saying is there? You are like the Ravens falsely whining about the Patriots illegal formations.
Please provide a link to the supposed "rule" you say is there.
I've already provided a link before that clearly disputes your claim.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d802456c2/printable/belichick-speaks-with-goodell-apologizes-for-videotape-flap
thank youNot anymore.So those formations are legal?Dude, how hard is it provide a reference to a rule that you keep saying is there? You are like the Ravens falsely whining about the Patriots illegal formations.
Please provide a link to the supposed "rule" you say is there.
I've already provided a link before that clearly disputes your claim.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d802456c2/printable/belichick-speaks-with-goodell-apologizes-for-videotape-flap
They were completely legal when the Ravens made the false accusations.thank youNot anymore.So those formations are legal?Dude, how hard is it provide a reference to a rule that you keep saying is there? You are like the Ravens falsely whining about the Patriots illegal formations.
Please provide a link to the supposed "rule" you say is there.
I've already provided a link before that clearly disputes your claim.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d802456c2/printable/belichick-speaks-with-goodell-apologizes-for-videotape-flap
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BustedKnuckles
Footballguy
I feel like im in the ####### Twilight zone ....is football THAT boring that we cant just concentrate on the games instead of stupid DRAMA ....like a GIANT hens nest around here
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Old Smiley
Footballguy
Simmons twitter feed is pretty funny this morning. Full on Kool Aid Larry.
skinsrule05
Footballguy
I can't keep up w/ all the new news. Why did this all come out now?
I know there was a lot of people talking about the recent issues (deflategate, rice, peterson) could end Goodell's reign. I never believed that. Now however, I could see this new stuff ending both him and Belichick's careers.
I know there was a lot of people talking about the recent issues (deflategate, rice, peterson) could end Goodell's reign. I never believed that. Now however, I could see this new stuff ending both him and Belichick's careers.
Old Smiley
Footballguy
Belichick's fine. This is all league stuff.
My thinking on all the checking the garbage and all, is that Belichick took what everybody was doing and formalized it. Like, "If this is how the league works, we're going to be the best at it."
My thinking on all the checking the garbage and all, is that Belichick took what everybody was doing and formalized it. Like, "If this is how the league works, we're going to be the best at it."
irish eyes
Footballguy
Everyone, there is no sense in trying to have a conversation with knucklehead patriot fans. I'm seeing a lot of "how much of an advantage could they have had". Typical its OK we cheated we really didn't fain an edge. Then why the @#@# were they doing it. IDIOTS!!
T J
Footballguy
Old Smiley
Footballguy
irish eyes
Footballguy
No I think I was pretty clear on my statement about knucklehead patriot fans. No dizziness, no confusion, still idiots.
bostonfred
Footballguy
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2696227
Without convening a congressional hearing or hiring an independent counsel to investigate the incident, the NFL has ruled that the Miami Dolphins violated no league rules in the Tapegate affair associated with the team's 21-0 victory over the New England Patriots last Sunday.
The incident spawned considerable attention on Tuesday after some Dolphins players suggested to the Palm Beach (Fla.) Post that the team "purchased" tapes of the New England offense that provided audio of quarterback Tom Brady making audible and line-blocking calls.
Those players strongly hinted that the tapes were critical in preparing for the game and provided the Dolphins inside information about New England's offensive audible system.
"I've never seen [brady] so flustered," middle linebacker Zach Thomas said.
The league's response? Pretty much a stifled yawn, since there is no rule prohibiting such film study.
"Reaction around the league office was, 'That's football,' " AFC spokesman Steve Alic said.
Patriots coach Bill Belichick, speaking Wednesday at his news conference, doubted that Miami gained an advantage.
"I stand out on that field every day, as do our defensive players -- who are pretty smart players -- and I don't see it," Belichick said. "If I can't pick it up and our players can't pick it up, with what we know and the opportunity to see and work against each other, I have a hard time thinking somebody else [could]."
Even with the contentions of the Miami defenders, there remains uncertainty over just what measures the Dolphins took in their surveillance of the New England offense. While players said the team "purchased" the tape, coach Nick Saban said his club simply watched TV replays of Brady in an attempt to decipher the calls.
one Miami defender said it is common practice to take a TV tape of a game and enhance the volume to try to hear the quarterback's signals. The so-called "coaching" tapes supplied by the league to teams do not include audio. Television tapes often capture a quarterback's calls at the line of scrimmage because of the parabolic microphones used on the sideline.
Despite the attention garnered by the story, most league observers dismissed the importance of whatever the Dolphins did and chose to attribute the shutout victory to superior execution.
the Dolphins limited the Patriots to 12 first downs and 189 yards and held Brady to 78 passing yards and a passer rating of 55.1 while sacking him four times.
Len Pasquarelli is a senior NFL writer for ESPN.com.
Without convening a congressional hearing or hiring an independent counsel to investigate the incident, the NFL has ruled that the Miami Dolphins violated no league rules in the Tapegate affair associated with the team's 21-0 victory over the New England Patriots last Sunday.
The incident spawned considerable attention on Tuesday after some Dolphins players suggested to the Palm Beach (Fla.) Post that the team "purchased" tapes of the New England offense that provided audio of quarterback Tom Brady making audible and line-blocking calls.
Those players strongly hinted that the tapes were critical in preparing for the game and provided the Dolphins inside information about New England's offensive audible system.
"I've never seen [brady] so flustered," middle linebacker Zach Thomas said.
The league's response? Pretty much a stifled yawn, since there is no rule prohibiting such film study.
"Reaction around the league office was, 'That's football,' " AFC spokesman Steve Alic said.
Patriots coach Bill Belichick, speaking Wednesday at his news conference, doubted that Miami gained an advantage.
"I stand out on that field every day, as do our defensive players -- who are pretty smart players -- and I don't see it," Belichick said. "If I can't pick it up and our players can't pick it up, with what we know and the opportunity to see and work against each other, I have a hard time thinking somebody else [could]."
Even with the contentions of the Miami defenders, there remains uncertainty over just what measures the Dolphins took in their surveillance of the New England offense. While players said the team "purchased" the tape, coach Nick Saban said his club simply watched TV replays of Brady in an attempt to decipher the calls.
one Miami defender said it is common practice to take a TV tape of a game and enhance the volume to try to hear the quarterback's signals. The so-called "coaching" tapes supplied by the league to teams do not include audio. Television tapes often capture a quarterback's calls at the line of scrimmage because of the parabolic microphones used on the sideline.
Despite the attention garnered by the story, most league observers dismissed the importance of whatever the Dolphins did and chose to attribute the shutout victory to superior execution.
the Dolphins limited the Patriots to 12 first downs and 189 yards and held Brady to 78 passing yards and a passer rating of 55.1 while sacking him four times.
Len Pasquarelli is a senior NFL writer for ESPN.com.
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Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Really looking forward to "Do Your Job" tomorrow night.
Wouldn't it be funny if it ended with Belichick staring at the Seahawks' coaches while his own assistant coaches begged him for a call, then the Patriots passed on an obvious time out, and called the perfect defensive play instead?
Wouldn't it be funny if it ended with Belichick staring at the Seahawks' coaches while his own assistant coaches begged him for a call, then the Patriots passed on an obvious time out, and called the perfect defensive play instead?
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Old Smiley
Footballguy
Pats fans say: We don't think they did it because there is no evident advantage. You say: Then why'd they do it?
See? Circles.
Jeremy
Footballguy
No. That was my point. They couldn't prove anything, and thus couldn't punish them. So when they found something even as lame as deflated footballs, they went to extremes in their punishment. One of the first things we discovered when this all began was that Kraft had zero support from the other owners, despite the obvious silliness. Now we know why. They thought they had finally caught them red handed at one of their many attempts to cheat.If you suspect someone, but can't prove it, you still think they should be punished? Interesting take, but not really what justice is based on.And this is why the owners pushed Goodell to be as harsh as he was on Deflategate and to not back down or settle. It was never about the deflated footballs. Spygate and deflated footballs are what they were caught doing. How much more did they get away with that couldn't be proven? Players had meetings in hallways on the fear that the locke rooms were being bugged. They just want the Patriots to stop cheating.
Of course all of this pales in comparison to the discovery that Brady supports The Donald.
Have any bugs ever been found? Just because someone fears they may be doing something is not proof that they are.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/09/08/report-patriots-sent-employees-into-locker-rooms-to-steal-play-sheets/
Surprised this wasn't up already but ESPN and others must have a list of cheating accusations against the Patriots and are just holding them back until the previous scandal starts to calm down....
Steelers4Life
Footballguy
Tears?
Nah. Just verified what the Patriots did in a LOT more detail with a lot more background, and verified yet again how incompetent and untrustworthy the NFL front office is.
Read the article, and if you still think everything was done legally or ESPN OTL is making stuff up and lying, so be it.
Lots of interesting stuff in that article.
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SeanTaylor21
Footballguy
Everyone tries to get an edge at every level. Not saying that everyone steals or tries to steal play sheets, but every team is doing something shady in order to try and gain a competitive edge. No doubt in my mind so I voted 100%.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
LOL @ Pats fans. Just own it. Own the cheating. It's a lot better than trying to rationalize or explain it away.
To clarify:
The question is specifically about play sheets not about trying to "gain an edge".
Everyone wants an edge but some teams go past the edge and into cheating territory. I am not so worried about getting a pulse of if teams cheat in general because some players consider holding to be cheating so in reality all teams cheat. Also "cheating" is so broad that it doesn't really mean much unless you pull out the specifics like in this case about stealing play sheets or even playbooks.
By the way there is a difference between stealing and signing a player to a 1 week contract as well what they did possibly with Reggie Wayne and getting his knowledge of the Colts would not constitute cheating at all.
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bostonfred
Footballguy
It's not cheating, it's scouting
The General
Footballguy
We cheat better than you.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Unpossible. The Pat-hate is out of control.
Steelers4Life
Footballguy
Your article does nothing like that. It references the same rule that Belichek says he misinterpreted that doesn't cover anything the Patriots were doing. They found a loophole and they exploited it, and the article goes into detail as to how and why.Dude, how hard is it provide a reference to a rule that you keep saying is there? You are like the Ravens falsely whining about the Patriots illegal formations.
Please provide a link to the supposed "rule" you say is there.
I've already provided a link before that clearly disputes your claim.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d802456c2/printable/belichick-speaks-with-goodell-apologizes-for-videotape-flap
But from the ESPN article today... while I don't own a copy of the NFL game operations manual and I'm certain it's not available via a google search, I'm going to trust that the NFL investigators did.
Walsh later told investigators that, at the time, he didn't know the NFL game operations manual forbade taping signals.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
The fascinating part is espn deciding to throw down with what was already known about spygate. This will make for some curious interactions between the league and espn.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
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SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
Um goodell is the league, so im pretty sure its not coming from the league because its disparraging to him. Now if you said its coming from a fire roger now faction i could buy it. Effective smear tactic.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
First time opening this thread. Can I get a summary of the first 15,000 posts,
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
Rise up and demand punishment for what the dolphins did!
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
Thunderlips
Footballguy
The article says:Your article does nothing like that. It references the same rule that Belichek says he misinterpreted that doesn't cover anything the Patriots were doing. They found a loophole and they exploited it, and the article goes into detail as to how and why.Dude, how hard is it provide a reference to a rule that you keep saying is there? You are like the Ravens falsely whining about the Patriots illegal formations.
Please provide a link to the supposed "rule" you say is there.
I've already provided a link before that clearly disputes your claim.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d802456c2/printable/belichick-speaks-with-goodell-apologizes-for-videotape-flap
But from the ESPN article today... while I don't own a copy of the NFL game operations manual and I'm certain it's not available via a google search, I'm going to trust that the NFL investigators did.
Walsh later told investigators that, at the time, he didn't know the NFL game operations manual forbade taping signals.
"Patriots under investigation for following rules, guidelines violations ...
1. Page 105 of the Game Operations manual says: "No video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game." It later says: "All video shooting locations must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead."
2. And, a memo from Ray Anderson, NFL head of football operations, to head coaches and GMs on Sept. 6, 2006 said: "Video taping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponents offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game."
The rules forbid taping from the sidelines. It allows taping from locations enclosed on all sides.
You claim the rules forbid taping signals completely. This is wrong. And you have provided zero proof of your rule.
Please provide proof of your rule, or stop spamming the board with false claims.
Green and Gold
Footballguy
You guys are bumping the wrong thread at this point.
Run It Up
Footballguy
Yeah like I said back to normal.
Unbiased unnamed sources claiming new and exciting ways how the Pats cheated almost a decade ago.
It's like nothing has changed at all.
The difference being it's OTL reporting it. A branch of ESPN, a totally credible news outlet that isn't known for being a complete joke or anything.
Unbiased unnamed sources claiming new and exciting ways how the Pats cheated almost a decade ago.
It's like nothing has changed at all.
The difference being it's OTL reporting it. A branch of ESPN, a totally credible news outlet that isn't known for being a complete joke or anything.
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Billy Bats
Footballguy
I can only imagine what else Roger burned. What a ####### fraud he is with all of his integrity talk.
Crikey, more cheating accusations made by Salty Haters with zero proof.
Can we start another thread that talks about the teams sweeping the Patriots locker room for bugs? No bugs were ever found, but that's just more proof that the Patriots got away with more cheating!
Can we start another thread that talks about the teams sweeping the Patriots locker room for bugs? No bugs were ever found, but that's just more proof that the Patriots got away with more cheating!
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Sports Illustrated getting on the bus . . .
http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/09/08/patriots-cheating-suspicions-bill-belichick-tom-brady?xid=si_social
At this point, BB is so deep in the minds of the opposition that they care more about what the Patriots could be doing to spy on them then worrying about what their own team needs to be doing on the field of play.
I am even more convinced now than ever that BB is really Keyser Soze. The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/09/08/patriots-cheating-suspicions-bill-belichick-tom-brady?xid=si_social
At this point, BB is so deep in the minds of the opposition that they care more about what the Patriots could be doing to spy on them then worrying about what their own team needs to be doing on the field of play.
I am even more convinced now than ever that BB is really Keyser Soze. The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
Steelers4Life
Footballguy
Again, that's what Belichek claimed, and they got punished severely for it. He misinterpreted a rule just like Pettite misremembered what Roger Clemens said and did.The article says:Your article does nothing like that. It references the same rule that Belichek says he misinterpreted that doesn't cover anything the Patriots were doing. They found a loophole and they exploited it, and the article goes into detail as to how and why.Dude, how hard is it provide a reference to a rule that you keep saying is there? You are like the Ravens falsely whining about the Patriots illegal formations.
Please provide a link to the supposed "rule" you say is there.
I've already provided a link before that clearly disputes your claim.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d802456c2/printable/belichick-speaks-with-goodell-apologizes-for-videotape-flap
But from the ESPN article today... while I don't own a copy of the NFL game operations manual and I'm certain it's not available via a google search, I'm going to trust that the NFL investigators did.
Walsh later told investigators that, at the time, he didn't know the NFL game operations manual forbade taping signals.
"Patriots under investigation for following rules, guidelines violations ...
1. Page 105 of the Game Operations manual says: "No video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game." It later says: "All video shooting locations must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead."
2. And, a memo from Ray Anderson, NFL head of football operations, to head coaches and GMs on Sept. 6, 2006 said: "Video taping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponents offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game."
The rules forbid taping from the sidelines. It allows taping from locations enclosed on all sides.
You claim the rules forbid taping signals completely. This is wrong. And you have provided zero proof of your rule.
Please provide proof of your rule, or stop spamming the board with false claims.
The proof is in the punishment and the league's reaction to it. If you want to go on believing they got punished that way for doing something legal from an illegal location, be my guest. I've learned over the years that there's no rhyme or reason when it comes to Patriot fans trying to justify what steps the team has taken over the years to gain a competitive advantage, whether it's by stretching or breaking the rules.
The rule was and always has been that taping game action is legal, and those rules are referencing that. Belicheck took it a step farther to try and justify his actions, but taping signals is not and has never been legal. You can try and steal signals, but once video-taping is involved, it becomes illegal. I remember reading an article back then about it, but I don't have the time to try and find it. That's not to say other teams haven't done it or tried it. Just that the Patriots got caught doing it and have continued on with an organizational sense of arrogance that pisses the rest of the league off.
I'm going to assume that you haven't read the article today, and that's OK. You might take 30 minutes out of your day to do it. It's a good read.
Steelers4Life
Footballguy
Pretty big difference, in my opinion.
The stuff they say carries a lot more weight and they've proven to be a very credible source of information for a long time.
I don't think anything in the article will impact how Patriots fans see their team. It just gives more insight into how and why it was done and everything that happened behind the scenes to keep it as quiet as possible. The NFL destroying the tapes in that manner is ridiculous, just like they claimed it was ridiculous for Brady to destroy his cell phone. Can't have it both ways. If Brady was doing that in order to hide evidence, it stands to reason that the NFL itself was doing that too.
I think the NFL comes off as bad as the Patriots, if not worse. The Patriots come across like an organization that's will to cheat and lie to win, which most outside of New England already consider them. The stuff about the coverup and favoritism within the NFL calls into question their judgement on everything they touch. You wonder how much other stuff has happened that never came to the public at all.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
Not even the Patriots having their guys dress up in NFL Films attire to take the pictures/videos?
You are absolutely correct. There is absolutely nothing that will ever get them to see what everyone else sees. Actually, they see it and they know the same thing that all of us know. But admitting it soils their Lombardis, so they can't do that.
