Patriots being investigated after Colts game (5 Viewers)

[Thorn]

For being cited as one of the best coaches ever, I find it alarming that after 3 days he has no idea how the balls lost 16% of their air pressure in 90 minutes despite being controlled by his staff. I always thought of him as being very detailed oriented. It sure seems like a head coach would be able to trace back all the people that would touch the balls AFTER Brady ok'd them.

To me the press conferences were about what I would expect if the franchise has been doing this for a long time. No one in the equipment is going to tinker with game balls outside of Brady's knowledge. Madden, former QBs are all saying this. Even Belichick said this. The balls are set up the way Brady likes them (which appears to be lower than the 12.5 psi mandated low despite him saying he likes them right at the edge of allowed). The statement by Brady that he touches them all and knows how he likes them pregame, but can't tell the difference of the 2-3 psi later in a game situation seems very disingenuous.

Belichick's press conference was to pass the buck to Brady. Brady's presser was just to buy time so he gets to play in the Super Bowl. I have no dog in this race, but it was hard watching Brady say things that look to be outright lies. I do think the legacies of both Belichick and Brady took a big hit this week in everyone but the biggest Patriot fan's eyes.

I'm surprised you feel this way, but many media members have similar ideas. What surprises me the most is a lack of outrage at the NFL in this case, and a willingness to throw Belicheck and Brady under the bus and call them both liars for denying wrongdoing in this case.

There are really 2 issues here:

1. A lack of facts. This is a BIG problem. We have not had the NFL come out and give us enough facts. Yet, the media, former players and everyone with an outlet is giving their opinion on a matter when they don't know the facts. The NFL isn't providing facts and thus we are all guessing on a number of important things.

2. Benefit of the doubt. The only thing we THINK we know is this: 11 of 12 balls were underinflated by 2 pounds at halftime. That's it. How did they get this way? No one has any proof. Who is the referee who did the inspection? Why isn't he being interviewed? What were the PSI of the balls 2 hours before the game? Were they manually inspected or not? Why does no one care about this, and everyone assumes that the head coach and quarterback, who are gameplanning to win an AFC championship game, were concerned with the PSI of the footballs?

The simplest answer is usually the best one. It's likely that Brady likes balls on the "deflated side", they deflate them how he likes them, and they submit them for inspection. It's likely that they were accepted without being measured and then lost a bit of pressure due to the cold. The Colts brought it to the attention of the officiating crew in the first half, possibly because they had wondered from a previous meeting and/or the Ravens and the officiating crew actually measured them and found they were under the limits. Then the balls were switched out, the game continued, and the Pats stomped the Colts.

This explanation is simple, doesn't require some grand scheme of deception by the entire organization, doesn't call for Brady and Belicheck to be bold-faced liars, doesn't involve the Patriots sneaking off with balls that Tom approved and letting out 2 pounds of air under the shadow of a tunnel, doesn't involve a scheme from Robert Kraft and Bill Belicheck to lessen the fumbles over a ten-year period, and doesn't involve a super diligent officiating crew that measures the PSI of every football and documents it.

I wish more media would call out the NFL here, instead of slam the Patriots.

This post lacks the appropriate amount of rage/dismay/exasperation for this thread. Please delete.

 

[Jercules]

For being cited as one of the best coaches ever, I find it alarming that after 3 days he has no idea how the balls lost 16% of their air pressure in 90 minutes despite being controlled by his staff. I always thought of him as being very detailed oriented. It sure seems like a head coach would be able to trace back all the people that would touch the balls AFTER Brady ok'd them.

To me the press conferences were about what I would expect if the franchise has been doing this for a long time. No one in the equipment is going to tinker with game balls outside of Brady's knowledge. Madden, former QBs are all saying this. Even Belichick said this. The balls are set up the way Brady likes them (which appears to be lower than the 12.5 psi mandated low despite him saying he likes them right at the edge of allowed). The statement by Brady that he touches them all and knows how he likes them pregame, but can't tell the difference of the 2-3 psi later in a game situation seems very disingenuous.

Belichick's press conference was to pass the buck to Brady. Brady's presser was just to buy time so he gets to play in the Super Bowl. I have no dog in this race, but it was hard watching Brady say things that look to be outright lies. I do think the legacies of both Belichick and Brady took a big hit this week in everyone but the biggest Patriot fan's eyes.

Given this I have two questions:

1. Does Brady always play with under-inflated balls?

2. If #1 is true, and there is an expectation of high scrutiny for the SB, does this affect his grip and passing ability enough to see a dip in production?

I do suspect #1 is true as I don't believe Brady is telling the truth, but I also suspect it won't, in the end, make a bit of difference in his production.

The second half of the Colts game they played with properly inflated balls and the Pats hung 28 unanswered points on them... so...

what does that (if even true) have to do with cheating? So are you saying just because they blew them out it's ok to cheat? How many other games during this season did the Patriots do this? I'm pretty sure it isn't a one time thingy.

He was questioning if it had an effect on production. Source material says that it didn't. Chill, dude.

That's irrelevant. Only whether they cheated is relevant.

And since we don't know if they cheated and probably never will, it's all a big pointless discussion.

TALK TO THE BALL BOY!!!!@

You're team has been absolutely owned by the Patriots in recent memory. Most of your compatriots handle that with dignity, why can't you?

 

[msudaisy26]

Much to do about nothing. I am surprised that this issue could result in almost 50 pages of discussion.

Even if Belichick purposely deflated the balls himself I don't understand why there would be sanctions. It had nothing to do with the outcome of the game.

I can't believe these kinds of posts are still being made. It had nothing to do with the outcome of the game, but has to do with whether they cheated or not. Having done this in the past and continue to do it now (arrogance), it is a big deal. I know it is with the other teams and coaches according to DA on talk radio.

ok, this whole thing has been a masterful but that one pushed it so far over the top even us pats fans are starting to catch on

Just let him go. We still have 9 more days until the Super Bowl.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Belichick has done a lot to advance the league's popularity. Maybe you guys should give him a pass, I dunno, ONCE?!

 

[Run It Up]

At this point I'm convinced it's Irsay just being a mudslinger, trying to drag the Pats through the mud.

So Irsay is leading the investigation now and not the league?

No, when I said that what I meant was Harbaww didn't notify the league, neither did Pagano, Justin Tucker or D'Qwell Jackson.

The rumors came from somewhere to Kravitz. I think it was Irsay, intentionally to make the Patriots look bad for the literal butt-devestation the Pats keep laying on them.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

intentionally to make the Patriots look bad for the literal butt-devestation

 

[Thorn]

For being cited as one of the best coaches ever, I find it alarming that after 3 days he has no idea how the balls lost 16% of their air pressure in 90 minutes despite being controlled by his staff. I always thought of him as being very detailed oriented. It sure seems like a head coach would be able to trace back all the people that would touch the balls AFTER Brady ok'd them.

To me the press conferences were about what I would expect if the franchise has been doing this for a long time. No one in the equipment is going to tinker with game balls outside of Brady's knowledge. Madden, former QBs are all saying this. Even Belichick said this. The balls are set up the way Brady likes them (which appears to be lower than the 12.5 psi mandated low despite him saying he likes them right at the edge of allowed). The statement by Brady that he touches them all and knows how he likes them pregame, but can't tell the difference of the 2-3 psi later in a game situation seems very disingenuous.

Belichick's press conference was to pass the buck to Brady. Brady's presser was just to buy time so he gets to play in the Super Bowl. I have no dog in this race, but it was hard watching Brady say things that look to be outright lies. I do think the legacies of both Belichick and Brady took a big hit this week in everyone but the biggest Patriot fan's eyes.

I'm surprised you feel this way, but many media members have similar ideas. What surprises me the most is a lack of outrage at the NFL in this case, and a willingness to throw Belicheck and Brady under the bus and call them both liars for denying wrongdoing in this case.

There are really 2 issues here:

1. A lack of facts. This is a BIG problem. We have not had the NFL come out and give us enough facts. Yet, the media, former players and everyone with an outlet is giving their opinion on a matter when they don't know the facts. The NFL isn't providing facts and thus we are all guessing on a number of important things.

2. Benefit of the doubt. The only thing we THINK we know is this: 11 of 12 balls were underinflated by 2 pounds at halftime. That's it. How did they get this way? No one has any proof. Who is the referee who did the inspection? Why isn't he being interviewed? What were the PSI of the balls 2 hours before the game? Were they manually inspected or not? Why does no one care about this, and everyone assumes that the head coach and quarterback, who are gameplanning to win an AFC championship game, were concerned with the PSI of the footballs?

The simplest answer is usually the best one. It's likely that Brady likes balls on the "deflated side", they deflate them how he likes them, and they submit them for inspection. It's likely that they were accepted without being measured and then lost a bit of pressure due to the cold. The Colts brought it to the attention of the officiating crew in the first half, possibly because they had wondered from a previous meeting and/or the Ravens and the officiating crew actually measured them and found they were under the limits. Then the balls were switched out, the game continued, and the Pats stomped the Colts.

This explanation is simple, doesn't require some grand scheme of deception by the entire organization, doesn't call for Brady and Belicheck to be bold-faced liars, doesn't involve the Patriots sneaking off with balls that Tom approved and letting out 2 pounds of air under the shadow of a tunnel, doesn't involve a scheme from Robert Kraft and Bill Belicheck to lessen the fumbles over a ten-year period, and doesn't involve a super diligent officiating crew that measures the PSI of every football and documents it.

I wish more media would call out the NFL here, instead of slam the Patriots.

I don't understand why you have this idea that the Patriots are off the hook if the NFL didn't test the balls or didn't test them properly before the game. It was the Patriots' responsibility to bring legal balls to the game. Heck, Brady himself was one of the guys that championed the rule allowing the teams to bring their own footballs, which I'm assuming came with the stipulation that those balls be legal.

Whether they were letting air out of the ball after inspection or under-inflating the balls ahead of time because they knew that the refs always skipped the inspections doesn't seem that relevant. It's like saying you don't deserve a ticket because usually when you speed in that spot, there isn't a cop there with a radar gun.

What? Of course it's relevant if they were under inflated when given to the ref. The rule is that the referee "shall be the sole judge as to whether all balls offered for play comply with these specifications." The Patriots offer balls to the ref, they aren't responsible that they comply. Frankly, once the ref deemed them compliant, they are valid balls, even if they didn't meet the specs. The ref is the sole judge.

 

[Run It Up]

For being cited as one of the best coaches ever, I find it alarming that after 3 days he has no idea how the balls lost 16% of their air pressure in 90 minutes despite being controlled by his staff. I always thought of him as being very detailed oriented. It sure seems like a head coach would be able to trace back all the people that would touch the balls AFTER Brady ok'd them.

To me the press conferences were about what I would expect if the franchise has been doing this for a long time. No one in the equipment is going to tinker with game balls outside of Brady's knowledge. Madden, former QBs are all saying this. Even Belichick said this. The balls are set up the way Brady likes them (which appears to be lower than the 12.5 psi mandated low despite him saying he likes them right at the edge of allowed). The statement by Brady that he touches them all and knows how he likes them pregame, but can't tell the difference of the 2-3 psi later in a game situation seems very disingenuous.

Belichick's press conference was to pass the buck to Brady. Brady's presser was just to buy time so he gets to play in the Super Bowl. I have no dog in this race, but it was hard watching Brady say things that look to be outright lies. I do think the legacies of both Belichick and Brady took a big hit this week in everyone but the biggest Patriot fan's eyes.

I'm surprised you feel this way, but many media members have similar ideas. What surprises me the most is a lack of outrage at the NFL in this case, and a willingness to throw Belicheck and Brady under the bus and call them both liars for denying wrongdoing in this case.

There are really 2 issues here:

1. A lack of facts. This is a BIG problem. We have not had the NFL come out and give us enough facts. Yet, the media, former players and everyone with an outlet is giving their opinion on a matter when they don't know the facts. The NFL isn't providing facts and thus we are all guessing on a number of important things.

2. Benefit of the doubt. The only thing we THINK we know is this: 11 of 12 balls were underinflated by 2 pounds at halftime. That's it. How did they get this way? No one has any proof. Who is the referee who did the inspection? Why isn't he being interviewed? What were the PSI of the balls 2 hours before the game? Were they manually inspected or not? Why does no one care about this, and everyone assumes that the head coach and quarterback, who are gameplanning to win an AFC championship game, were concerned with the PSI of the footballs?

The simplest answer is usually the best one. It's likely that Brady likes balls on the "deflated side", they deflate them how he likes them, and they submit them for inspection. It's likely that they were accepted without being measured and then lost a bit of pressure due to the cold. The Colts brought it to the attention of the officiating crew in the first half, possibly because they had wondered from a previous meeting and/or the Ravens and the officiating crew actually measured them and found they were under the limits. Then the balls were switched out, the game continued, and the Pats stomped the Colts.

This explanation is simple, doesn't require some grand scheme of deception by the entire organization, doesn't call for Brady and Belicheck to be bold-faced liars, doesn't involve the Patriots sneaking off with balls that Tom approved and letting out 2 pounds of air under the shadow of a tunnel, doesn't involve a scheme from Robert Kraft and Bill Belicheck to lessen the fumbles over a ten-year period, and doesn't involve a super diligent officiating crew that measures the PSI of every football and documents it.

I wish more media would call out the NFL here, instead of slam the Patriots.

I don't understand why you have this idea that the Patriots are off the hook if the NFL didn't test the balls or didn't test them properly before the game. It was the Patriots' responsibility to bring legal balls to the game. Heck, Brady himself was one of the guys that championed the rule allowing the teams to bring their own footballs, which I'm assuming came with the stipulation that those balls be legal.

Whether they were letting air out of the ball after inspection or under-inflating the balls ahead of time because they knew that the refs always skipped the inspections doesn't seem that relevant. It's like saying you don't deserve a ticket because usually when you speed in that spot, there isn't a cop there with a radar gun.

What? Of course it's relevant if they were under inflated when given to the ref. The rule is that the referee "shall be the sole judge as to whether all balls offered for play comply with these specifications." The Patriots offer balls to the ref, they aren't responsible that they comply. Frankly, once the ref deemed them compliant, they are valid balls, even if they didn't meet the specs. The ref is the sole judge.

Its literally the difference between cheating and not, lmfao... of course its relevant.

 

[Flying Elvis]

For being cited as one of the best coaches ever, I find it alarming that after 3 days he has no idea how the balls lost 16% of their air pressure in 90 minutes despite being controlled by his staff. I always thought of him as being very detailed oriented. It sure seems like a head coach would be able to trace back all the people that would touch the balls AFTER Brady ok'd them.

To me the press conferences were about what I would expect if the franchise has been doing this for a long time. No one in the equipment is going to tinker with game balls outside of Brady's knowledge. Madden, former QBs are all saying this. Even Belichick said this. The balls are set up the way Brady likes them (which appears to be lower than the 12.5 psi mandated low despite him saying he likes them right at the edge of allowed). The statement by Brady that he touches them all and knows how he likes them pregame, but can't tell the difference of the 2-3 psi later in a game situation seems very disingenuous.

Belichick's press conference was to pass the buck to Brady. Brady's presser was just to buy time so he gets to play in the Super Bowl. I have no dog in this race, but it was hard watching Brady say things that look to be outright lies. I do think the legacies of both Belichick and Brady took a big hit this week in everyone but the biggest Patriot fan's eyes.

I'm surprised you feel this way, but many media members have similar ideas. What surprises me the most is a lack of outrage at the NFL in this case, and a willingness to throw Belicheck and Brady under the bus and call them both liars for denying wrongdoing in this case.

There are really 2 issues here:

1. A lack of facts. This is a BIG problem. We have not had the NFL come out and give us enough facts. Yet, the media, former players and everyone with an outlet is giving their opinion on a matter when they don't know the facts. The NFL isn't providing facts and thus we are all guessing on a number of important things.

2. Benefit of the doubt. The only thing we THINK we know is this: 11 of 12 balls were underinflated by 2 pounds at halftime. That's it. How did they get this way? No one has any proof. Who is the referee who did the inspection? Why isn't he being interviewed? What were the PSI of the balls 2 hours before the game? Were they manually inspected or not? Why does no one care about this, and everyone assumes that the head coach and quarterback, who are gameplanning to win an AFC championship game, were concerned with the PSI of the footballs?

The simplest answer is usually the best one. It's likely that Brady likes balls on the "deflated side", they deflate them how he likes them, and they submit them for inspection. It's likely that they were accepted without being measured and then lost a bit of pressure due to the cold. The Colts brought it to the attention of the officiating crew in the first half, possibly because they had wondered from a previous meeting and/or the Ravens and the officiating crew actually measured them and found they were under the limits. Then the balls were switched out, the game continued, and the Pats stomped the Colts.

This explanation is simple, doesn't require some grand scheme of deception by the entire organization, doesn't call for Brady and Belicheck to be bold-faced liars, doesn't involve the Patriots sneaking off with balls that Tom approved and letting out 2 pounds of air under the shadow of a tunnel, doesn't involve a scheme from Robert Kraft and Bill Belicheck to lessen the fumbles over a ten-year period, and doesn't involve a super diligent officiating crew that measures the PSI of every football and documents it.

I wish more media would call out the NFL here, instead of slam the Patriots.

Well said.

I know it's not going to happen but I would fall off my chair laughing at the media blitz this has become if the nfl came out with a mea culpa for improper process and testing in this mess. Image how hard the backpedaling would be for every outlet that has run with this despite zero known & credible sources for the presumed facts.

 

[shader]

For being cited as one of the best coaches ever, I find it alarming that after 3 days he has no idea how the balls lost 16% of their air pressure in 90 minutes despite being controlled by his staff. I always thought of him as being very detailed oriented. It sure seems like a head coach would be able to trace back all the people that would touch the balls AFTER Brady ok'd them.

To me the press conferences were about what I would expect if the franchise has been doing this for a long time. No one in the equipment is going to tinker with game balls outside of Brady's knowledge. Madden, former QBs are all saying this. Even Belichick said this. The balls are set up the way Brady likes them (which appears to be lower than the 12.5 psi mandated low despite him saying he likes them right at the edge of allowed). The statement by Brady that he touches them all and knows how he likes them pregame, but can't tell the difference of the 2-3 psi later in a game situation seems very disingenuous.

Belichick's press conference was to pass the buck to Brady. Brady's presser was just to buy time so he gets to play in the Super Bowl. I have no dog in this race, but it was hard watching Brady say things that look to be outright lies. I do think the legacies of both Belichick and Brady took a big hit this week in everyone but the biggest Patriot fan's eyes.

I'm surprised you feel this way, but many media members have similar ideas. What surprises me the most is a lack of outrage at the NFL in this case, and a willingness to throw Belicheck and Brady under the bus and call them both liars for denying wrongdoing in this case.

There are really 2 issues here:

1. A lack of facts. This is a BIG problem. We have not had the NFL come out and give us enough facts. Yet, the media, former players and everyone with an outlet is giving their opinion on a matter when they don't know the facts. The NFL isn't providing facts and thus we are all guessing on a number of important things.

2. Benefit of the doubt. The only thing we THINK we know is this: 11 of 12 balls were underinflated by 2 pounds at halftime. That's it. How did they get this way? No one has any proof. Who is the referee who did the inspection? Why isn't he being interviewed? What were the PSI of the balls 2 hours before the game? Were they manually inspected or not? Why does no one care about this, and everyone assumes that the head coach and quarterback, who are gameplanning to win an AFC championship game, were concerned with the PSI of the footballs?

The simplest answer is usually the best one. It's likely that Brady likes balls on the "deflated side", they deflate them how he likes them, and they submit them for inspection. It's likely that they were accepted without being measured and then lost a bit of pressure due to the cold. The Colts brought it to the attention of the officiating crew in the first half, possibly because they had wondered from a previous meeting and/or the Ravens and the officiating crew actually measured them and found they were under the limits. Then the balls were switched out, the game continued, and the Pats stomped the Colts.

This explanation is simple, doesn't require some grand scheme of deception by the entire organization, doesn't call for Brady and Belicheck to be bold-faced liars, doesn't involve the Patriots sneaking off with balls that Tom approved and letting out 2 pounds of air under the shadow of a tunnel, doesn't involve a scheme from Robert Kraft and Bill Belicheck to lessen the fumbles over a ten-year period, and doesn't involve a super diligent officiating crew that measures the PSI of every football and documents it.

I wish more media would call out the NFL here, instead of slam the Patriots.

I don't understand why you have this idea that the Patriots are off the hook if the NFL didn't test the balls or didn't test them properly before the game. It was the Patriots' responsibility to bring legal balls to the game. Heck, Brady himself was one of the guys that championed the rule allowing the teams to bring their own footballs, which I'm assuming came with the stipulation that those balls be legal.

Whether they were letting air out of the ball after inspection or under-inflating the balls ahead of time because they knew that the refs always skipped the inspections doesn't seem that relevant. It's like saying you don't deserve a ticket because usually when you speed in that spot, there isn't a cop there with a radar gun.

It's not the responsibility of the Patriots to inspect the balls before the game. It's the responsibility of the refs. If the refs didn't do their job than it's on them. When the balls were discovered to be too light, they were taken out of play. I honestly have no idea what you are implying here. Do you think as an organization, the Patriots should stop all preparation and make sure that the balls are up to regulation, just in case the refs don't do their job thoroughly?

 

[msudaisy26]

For being cited as one of the best coaches ever, I find it alarming that after 3 days he has no idea how the balls lost 16% of their air pressure in 90 minutes despite being controlled by his staff. I always thought of him as being very detailed oriented. It sure seems like a head coach would be able to trace back all the people that would touch the balls AFTER Brady ok'd them.

To me the press conferences were about what I would expect if the franchise has been doing this for a long time. No one in the equipment is going to tinker with game balls outside of Brady's knowledge. Madden, former QBs are all saying this. Even Belichick said this. The balls are set up the way Brady likes them (which appears to be lower than the 12.5 psi mandated low despite him saying he likes them right at the edge of allowed). The statement by Brady that he touches them all and knows how he likes them pregame, but can't tell the difference of the 2-3 psi later in a game situation seems very disingenuous.

Belichick's press conference was to pass the buck to Brady. Brady's presser was just to buy time so he gets to play in the Super Bowl. I have no dog in this race, but it was hard watching Brady say things that look to be outright lies. I do think the legacies of both Belichick and Brady took a big hit this week in everyone but the biggest Patriot fan's eyes.

I'm surprised you feel this way, but many media members have similar ideas. What surprises me the most is a lack of outrage at the NFL in this case, and a willingness to throw Belicheck and Brady under the bus and call them both liars for denying wrongdoing in this case.

There are really 2 issues here:

1. A lack of facts. This is a BIG problem. We have not had the NFL come out and give us enough facts. Yet, the media, former players and everyone with an outlet is giving their opinion on a matter when they don't know the facts. The NFL isn't providing facts and thus we are all guessing on a number of important things.

2. Benefit of the doubt. The only thing we THINK we know is this: 11 of 12 balls were underinflated by 2 pounds at halftime. That's it. How did they get this way? No one has any proof. Who is the referee who did the inspection? Why isn't he being interviewed? What were the PSI of the balls 2 hours before the game? Were they manually inspected or not? Why does no one care about this, and everyone assumes that the head coach and quarterback, who are gameplanning to win an AFC championship game, were concerned with the PSI of the footballs?

The simplest answer is usually the best one. It's likely that Brady likes balls on the "deflated side", they deflate them how he likes them, and they submit them for inspection. It's likely that they were accepted without being measured and then lost a bit of pressure due to the cold. The Colts brought it to the attention of the officiating crew in the first half, possibly because they had wondered from a previous meeting and/or the Ravens and the officiating crew actually measured them and found they were under the limits. Then the balls were switched out, the game continued, and the Pats stomped the Colts.

This explanation is simple, doesn't require some grand scheme of deception by the entire organization, doesn't call for Brady and Belicheck to be bold-faced liars, doesn't involve the Patriots sneaking off with balls that Tom approved and letting out 2 pounds of air under the shadow of a tunnel, doesn't involve a scheme from Robert Kraft and Bill Belicheck to lessen the fumbles over a ten-year period, and doesn't involve a super diligent officiating crew that measures the PSI of every football and documents it.

I wish more media would call out the NFL here, instead of slam the Patriots.

I don't understand why you have this idea that the Patriots are off the hook if the NFL didn't test the balls or didn't test them properly before the game. It was the Patriots' responsibility to bring legal balls to the game. Heck, Brady himself was one of the guys that championed the rule allowing the teams to bring their own footballs, which I'm assuming came with the stipulation that those balls be legal.

Whether they were letting air out of the ball after inspection or under-inflating the balls ahead of time because they knew that the refs always skipped the inspections doesn't seem that relevant. It's like saying you don't deserve a ticket because usually when you speed in that spot, there isn't a cop there with a radar gun.

It's not the responsibility of the Patriots to inspect the balls before the game. It's the responsibility of the refs. If the refs didn't do their job than it's on them. When the balls were discovered to be too light, they were taken out of play. I honestly have no idea what you are implying here. Do you think as an organization, the Patriots should stop all preparation and make sure that the balls are up to regulation, just in case the refs don't do their job thoroughly?

Of course they should. Just like if Brady throws a deep pass and the refs miss a defensive PI. He should just grab the football and mark the penalty off for them.

 

[MG345]

For being cited as one of the best coaches ever, I find it alarming that after 3 days he has no idea how the balls lost 16% of their air pressure in 90 minutes despite being controlled by his staff. I always thought of him as being very detailed oriented. It sure seems like a head coach would be able to trace back all the people that would touch the balls AFTER Brady ok'd them.

To me the press conferences were about what I would expect if the franchise has been doing this for a long time. No one in the equipment is going to tinker with game balls outside of Brady's knowledge. Madden, former QBs are all saying this. Even Belichick said this. The balls are set up the way Brady likes them (which appears to be lower than the 12.5 psi mandated low despite him saying he likes them right at the edge of allowed). The statement by Brady that he touches them all and knows how he likes them pregame, but can't tell the difference of the 2-3 psi later in a game situation seems very disingenuous.

Belichick's press conference was to pass the buck to Brady. Brady's presser was just to buy time so he gets to play in the Super Bowl. I have no dog in this race, but it was hard watching Brady say things that look to be outright lies. I do think the legacies of both Belichick and Brady took a big hit this week in everyone but the biggest Patriot fan's eyes.

I'm surprised you feel this way, but many media members have similar ideas. What surprises me the most is a lack of outrage at the NFL in this case, and a willingness to throw Belicheck and Brady under the bus and call them both liars for denying wrongdoing in this case.

There are really 2 issues here:

1. A lack of facts. This is a BIG problem. We have not had the NFL come out and give us enough facts. Yet, the media, former players and everyone with an outlet is giving their opinion on a matter when they don't know the facts. The NFL isn't providing facts and thus we are all guessing on a number of important things.

2. Benefit of the doubt. The only thing we THINK we know is this: 11 of 12 balls were underinflated by 2 pounds at halftime. That's it. How did they get this way? No one has any proof. Who is the referee who did the inspection? Why isn't he being interviewed? What were the PSI of the balls 2 hours before the game? Were they manually inspected or not? Why does no one care about this, and everyone assumes that the head coach and quarterback, who are gameplanning to win an AFC championship game, were concerned with the PSI of the footballs?

The simplest answer is usually the best one. It's likely that Brady likes balls on the "deflated side", they deflate them how he likes them, and they submit them for inspection. It's likely that they were accepted without being measured and then lost a bit of pressure due to the cold. The Colts brought it to the attention of the officiating crew in the first half, possibly because they had wondered from a previous meeting and/or the Ravens and the officiating crew actually measured them and found they were under the limits. Then the balls were switched out, the game continued, and the Pats stomped the Colts.

This explanation is simple, doesn't require some grand scheme of deception by the entire organization, doesn't call for Brady and Belicheck to be bold-faced liars, doesn't involve the Patriots sneaking off with balls that Tom approved and letting out 2 pounds of air under the shadow of a tunnel, doesn't involve a scheme from Robert Kraft and Bill Belicheck to lessen the fumbles over a ten-year period, and doesn't involve a super diligent officiating crew that measures the PSI of every football and documents it.

I wish more media would call out the NFL here, instead of slam the Patriots.

I don't understand why you have this idea that the Patriots are off the hook if the NFL didn't test the balls or didn't test them properly before the game. It was the Patriots' responsibility to bring legal balls to the game. Heck, Brady himself was one of the guys that championed the rule allowing the teams to bring their own footballs, which I'm assuming came with the stipulation that those balls be legal.

Whether they were letting air out of the ball after inspection or under-inflating the balls ahead of time because they knew that the refs always skipped the inspections doesn't seem that relevant. It's like saying you don't deserve a ticket because usually when you speed in that spot, there isn't a cop there with a radar gun.

It's not the responsibility of the Patriots to inspect the balls before the game. It's the responsibility of the refs. If the refs didn't do their job than it's on them. When the balls were discovered to be too light, they were taken out of play. I honestly have no idea what you are implying here. Do you think as an organization, the Patriots should stop all preparation and make sure that the balls are up to regulation, just in case the refs don't do their job thoroughly?

Just real quick...do you think they are weighing the balls? or this is over the weight?

 

[Good Posting Judge]

https://vine.co/v/OIpB5rwMd16

 

[Good Posting Judge]

OH I GUESS ISIS IS FUNNY TOO, THOMAS!?!?

 

[shader]

There are two things that SHOCK me in terms of the NFL.

1. They have not updated a country that for some reason has lost their mind on this story. It's running on major newscasts and CNN. I don't know why it's caught the attention of the public, but it has. The NFL is heading to super bowl week and they are basically letting the media run wild. Un-freaking-believable.

2. They have not contacted Tom Brady. Astonishing.

I know that things things have been discussed in this thread, but I am astonished that the NFL has just given the entire thing the silent treatment for three full days.

 

[Bossman]

For being cited as one of the best coaches ever, I find it alarming that after 3 days he has no idea how the balls lost 16% of their air pressure in 90 minutes despite being controlled by his staff. I always thought of him as being very detailed oriented. It sure seems like a head coach would be able to trace back all the people that would touch the balls AFTER Brady ok'd them.

To me the press conferences were about what I would expect if the franchise has been doing this for a long time. No one in the equipment is going to tinker with game balls outside of Brady's knowledge. Madden, former QBs are all saying this. Even Belichick said this. The balls are set up the way Brady likes them (which appears to be lower than the 12.5 psi mandated low despite him saying he likes them right at the edge of allowed). The statement by Brady that he touches them all and knows how he likes them pregame, but can't tell the difference of the 2-3 psi later in a game situation seems very disingenuous.

Belichick's press conference was to pass the buck to Brady. Brady's presser was just to buy time so he gets to play in the Super Bowl. I have no dog in this race, but it was hard watching Brady say things that look to be outright lies. I do think the legacies of both Belichick and Brady took a big hit this week in everyone but the biggest Patriot fan's eyes.

I'm surprised you feel this way, but many media members have similar ideas. What surprises me the most is a lack of outrage at the NFL in this case, and a willingness to throw Belicheck and Brady under the bus and call them both liars for denying wrongdoing in this case.

There are really 2 issues here:

1. A lack of facts. This is a BIG problem. We have not had the NFL come out and give us enough facts. Yet, the media, former players and everyone with an outlet is giving their opinion on a matter when they don't know the facts. The NFL isn't providing facts and thus we are all guessing on a number of important things.

2. Benefit of the doubt. The only thing we THINK we know is this: 11 of 12 balls were underinflated by 2 pounds at halftime. That's it. How did they get this way? No one has any proof. Who is the referee who did the inspection? Why isn't he being interviewed? What were the PSI of the balls 2 hours before the game? Were they manually inspected or not? Why does no one care about this, and everyone assumes that the head coach and quarterback, who are gameplanning to win an AFC championship game, were concerned with the PSI of the footballs?

The simplest answer is usually the best one. It's likely that Brady likes balls on the "deflated side", they deflate them how he likes them, and they submit them for inspection. It's likely that they were accepted without being measured and then lost a bit of pressure due to the cold. The Colts brought it to the attention of the officiating crew in the first half, possibly because they had wondered from a previous meeting and/or the Ravens and the officiating crew actually measured them and found they were under the limits. Then the balls were switched out, the game continued, and the Pats stomped the Colts.

This explanation is simple, doesn't require some grand scheme of deception by the entire organization, doesn't call for Brady and Belicheck to be bold-faced liars, doesn't involve the Patriots sneaking off with balls that Tom approved and letting out 2 pounds of air under the shadow of a tunnel, doesn't involve a scheme from Robert Kraft and Bill Belicheck to lessen the fumbles over a ten-year period, and doesn't involve a super diligent officiating crew that measures the PSI of every football and documents it.

I wish more media would call out the NFL here, instead of slam the Patriots.

I don't understand why you have this idea that the Patriots are off the hook if the NFL didn't test the balls or didn't test them properly before the game. It was the Patriots' responsibility to bring legal balls to the game. Heck, Brady himself was one of the guys that championed the rule allowing the teams to bring their own footballs, which I'm assuming came with the stipulation that those balls be legal.

Whether they were letting air out of the ball after inspection or under-inflating the balls ahead of time because they knew that the refs always skipped the inspections doesn't seem that relevant. It's like saying you don't deserve a ticket because usually when you speed in that spot, there isn't a cop there with a radar gun.

What? Of course it's relevant if they were under inflated when given to the ref. The rule is that the referee "shall be the sole judge as to whether all balls offered for play comply with these specifications." The Patriots offer balls to the ref, they aren't responsible that they comply. Frankly, once the ref deemed them compliant, they are valid balls, even if they didn't meet the specs. The ref is the sole judge.

Its literally the difference between cheating and not, lmfao... of course its relevant.

More like the cop telling you "It's ok to drive 70 in this 65 zone ... I'm not going to ticket you".

 

[the moops]

This whole thing is hilarious.

To further cloud the issue, Indianapolis Colts linebacker DQwell Jackson, who says he didnt snitch on the Patriots in the AFC Championship Game, told NFL Medias Jeff Darlington on Thursday that Brady was using a Colts football at the end of the first half Sunday night

 

[shader]

For being cited as one of the best coaches ever, I find it alarming that after 3 days he has no idea how the balls lost 16% of their air pressure in 90 minutes despite being controlled by his staff. I always thought of him as being very detailed oriented. It sure seems like a head coach would be able to trace back all the people that would touch the balls AFTER Brady ok'd them.

To me the press conferences were about what I would expect if the franchise has been doing this for a long time. No one in the equipment is going to tinker with game balls outside of Brady's knowledge. Madden, former QBs are all saying this. Even Belichick said this. The balls are set up the way Brady likes them (which appears to be lower than the 12.5 psi mandated low despite him saying he likes them right at the edge of allowed). The statement by Brady that he touches them all and knows how he likes them pregame, but can't tell the difference of the 2-3 psi later in a game situation seems very disingenuous.

Belichick's press conference was to pass the buck to Brady. Brady's presser was just to buy time so he gets to play in the Super Bowl. I have no dog in this race, but it was hard watching Brady say things that look to be outright lies. I do think the legacies of both Belichick and Brady took a big hit this week in everyone but the biggest Patriot fan's eyes.

I'm surprised you feel this way, but many media members have similar ideas. What surprises me the most is a lack of outrage at the NFL in this case, and a willingness to throw Belicheck and Brady under the bus and call them both liars for denying wrongdoing in this case.

There are really 2 issues here:

1. A lack of facts. This is a BIG problem. We have not had the NFL come out and give us enough facts. Yet, the media, former players and everyone with an outlet is giving their opinion on a matter when they don't know the facts. The NFL isn't providing facts and thus we are all guessing on a number of important things.

2. Benefit of the doubt. The only thing we THINK we know is this: 11 of 12 balls were underinflated by 2 pounds at halftime. That's it. How did they get this way? No one has any proof. Who is the referee who did the inspection? Why isn't he being interviewed? What were the PSI of the balls 2 hours before the game? Were they manually inspected or not? Why does no one care about this, and everyone assumes that the head coach and quarterback, who are gameplanning to win an AFC championship game, were concerned with the PSI of the footballs?

The simplest answer is usually the best one. It's likely that Brady likes balls on the "deflated side", they deflate them how he likes them, and they submit them for inspection. It's likely that they were accepted without being measured and then lost a bit of pressure due to the cold. The Colts brought it to the attention of the officiating crew in the first half, possibly because they had wondered from a previous meeting and/or the Ravens and the officiating crew actually measured them and found they were under the limits. Then the balls were switched out, the game continued, and the Pats stomped the Colts.

This explanation is simple, doesn't require some grand scheme of deception by the entire organization, doesn't call for Brady and Belicheck to be bold-faced liars, doesn't involve the Patriots sneaking off with balls that Tom approved and letting out 2 pounds of air under the shadow of a tunnel, doesn't involve a scheme from Robert Kraft and Bill Belicheck to lessen the fumbles over a ten-year period, and doesn't involve a super diligent officiating crew that measures the PSI of every football and documents it.

I wish more media would call out the NFL here, instead of slam the Patriots.

I don't understand why you have this idea that the Patriots are off the hook if the NFL didn't test the balls or didn't test them properly before the game. It was the Patriots' responsibility to bring legal balls to the game. Heck, Brady himself was one of the guys that championed the rule allowing the teams to bring their own footballs, which I'm assuming came with the stipulation that those balls be legal.

Whether they were letting air out of the ball after inspection or under-inflating the balls ahead of time because they knew that the refs always skipped the inspections doesn't seem that relevant. It's like saying you don't deserve a ticket because usually when you speed in that spot, there isn't a cop there with a radar gun.

It's not the responsibility of the Patriots to inspect the balls before the game. It's the responsibility of the refs. If the refs didn't do their job than it's on them. When the balls were discovered to be too light, they were taken out of play. I honestly have no idea what you are implying here. Do you think as an organization, the Patriots should stop all preparation and make sure that the balls are up to regulation, just in case the refs don't do their job thoroughly?

Just real quick...do you think they are weighing the balls? or this is over the weight?

Do I think who is weighing the balls? When? What does "or is this over the weight" mean?

 

[TheAristocrat]

There are two things that SHOCK me in terms of the NFL.

1. They have not updated a country that for some reason has lost their mind on this story. It's running on major newscasts and CNN. I don't know why it's caught the attention of the public, but it has. The NFL is heading to super bowl week and they are basically letting the media run wild. Un-freaking-believable.

2. They have not contacted Tom Brady. Astonishing.

I know that things things have been discussed in this thread, but I am astonished that the NFL has just given the entire thing the silent treatment for three full days.

Much like the shoddy game day coaching we see in two thirds of this league, we also have an extremely inept Commissioner at the helm day-to-day. Disgraceful not to get out ahead of this with maybe some sort of information regarding the investigation.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

For being cited as one of the best coaches ever, I find it alarming that after 3 days he has no idea how the balls lost 16% of their air pressure in 90 minutes despite being controlled by his staff. I always thought of him as being very detailed oriented. It sure seems like a head coach would be able to trace back all the people that would touch the balls AFTER Brady ok'd them.

To me the press conferences were about what I would expect if the franchise has been doing this for a long time. No one in the equipment is going to tinker with game balls outside of Brady's knowledge. Madden, former QBs are all saying this. Even Belichick said this. The balls are set up the way Brady likes them (which appears to be lower than the 12.5 psi mandated low despite him saying he likes them right at the edge of allowed). The statement by Brady that he touches them all and knows how he likes them pregame, but can't tell the difference of the 2-3 psi later in a game situation seems very disingenuous.

Belichick's press conference was to pass the buck to Brady. Brady's presser was just to buy time so he gets to play in the Super Bowl. I have no dog in this race, but it was hard watching Brady say things that look to be outright lies. I do think the legacies of both Belichick and Brady took a big hit this week in everyone but the biggest Patriot fan's eyes.

I'm surprised you feel this way, but many media members have similar ideas. What surprises me the most is a lack of outrage at the NFL in this case, and a willingness to throw Belicheck and Brady under the bus and call them both liars for denying wrongdoing in this case.

There are really 2 issues here:

1. A lack of facts. This is a BIG problem. We have not had the NFL come out and give us enough facts. Yet, the media, former players and everyone with an outlet is giving their opinion on a matter when they don't know the facts. The NFL isn't providing facts and thus we are all guessing on a number of important things.

2. Benefit of the doubt. The only thing we THINK we know is this: 11 of 12 balls were underinflated by 2 pounds at halftime. That's it. How did they get this way? No one has any proof. Who is the referee who did the inspection? Why isn't he being interviewed? What were the PSI of the balls 2 hours before the game? Were they manually inspected or not? Why does no one care about this, and everyone assumes that the head coach and quarterback, who are gameplanning to win an AFC championship game, were concerned with the PSI of the footballs?

The simplest answer is usually the best one. It's likely that Brady likes balls on the "deflated side", they deflate them how he likes them, and they submit them for inspection. It's likely that they were accepted without being measured and then lost a bit of pressure due to the cold. The Colts brought it to the attention of the officiating crew in the first half, possibly because they had wondered from a previous meeting and/or the Ravens and the officiating crew actually measured them and found they were under the limits. Then the balls were switched out, the game continued, and the Pats stomped the Colts.

This explanation is simple, doesn't require some grand scheme of deception by the entire organization, doesn't call for Brady and Belicheck to be bold-faced liars, doesn't involve the Patriots sneaking off with balls that Tom approved and letting out 2 pounds of air under the shadow of a tunnel, doesn't involve a scheme from Robert Kraft and Bill Belicheck to lessen the fumbles over a ten-year period, and doesn't involve a super diligent officiating crew that measures the PSI of every football and documents it.

I wish more media would call out the NFL here, instead of slam the Patriots.

I don't understand why you have this idea that the Patriots are off the hook if the NFL didn't test the balls or didn't test them properly before the game. It was the Patriots' responsibility to bring legal balls to the game. Heck, Brady himself was one of the guys that championed the rule allowing the teams to bring their own footballs, which I'm assuming came with the stipulation that those balls be legal.

Whether they were letting air out of the ball after inspection or under-inflating the balls ahead of time because they knew that the refs always skipped the inspections doesn't seem that relevant. It's like saying you don't deserve a ticket because usually when you speed in that spot, there isn't a cop there with a radar gun.

It's not the responsibility of the Patriots to inspect the balls before the game. It's the responsibility of the refs. If the refs didn't do their job than it's on them. When the balls were discovered to be too light, they were taken out of play. I honestly have no idea what you are implying here. Do you think as an organization, the Patriots should stop all preparation and make sure that the balls are up to regulation, just in case the refs don't do their job thoroughly?

It's the Patriots' responsibility to bring legal balls to the game. It's not their responsibility to enforce the rule, but it's their responsibility to follow the rule.

It's not the players responsibility to test for steroids before the game either. Does that make it OK to use them if they don't get tested that week? Of course not, because it's their responsibility to not use steroids in the first place. A drug test, just like the ball test, is merely the enforcement of the rule. The rule still exists whether that test happens or not.

 

[msudaisy26]

OH I GUESS ISIS IS FUNNY TOO, THOMAS!?!?

Probably should lose some draft picks for that.

 

[Da Guru]

The refs handle the "balls" every play. Are they not trained to detect that the PSI could be 15% off? A quick squeeze of the balls could certainly ascertain that there might be an inflation issue to deal with. Also if a TD is scored can you throw a challenge flag to check for a ball inflation infraction?

 

[KarmaPolice]

Much to do about nothing. I am surprised that this issue could result in almost 50 pages of discussion.

Even if Belichick purposely deflated the balls himself I don't understand why there would be sanctions. It had nothing to do with the outcome of the game.

I can't believe these kinds of posts are still being made. It had nothing to do with the outcome of the game, but has to do with whether they cheated or not. Having done this in the past and continue to do it now (arrogance), it is a big deal. I know it is with the other teams and coaches according to DA on talk radio.

...and everybody is still waiting for proof of foul play.

 

[amnesiac]

There are two things that SHOCK me in terms of the NFL.

1. They have not updated a country that for some reason has lost their mind on this story. It's running on major newscasts and CNN. I don't know why it's caught the attention of the public, but it has. The NFL is heading to super bowl week and they are basically letting the media run wild. Un-freaking-believable.

2. They have not contacted Tom Brady. Astonishing.

I know that things things have been discussed in this thread, but I am astonished that the NFL has just given the entire thing the silent treatment for three full days.

so, the entire country is talking about the NFL?yeah, better squash that real quick; wouldn't want to break any viewing records for the Super Bowl and make profits go up.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

life must be awful boring if this is the biggest news story in sports

 

[ImTheScientist]

Belicheat

 

[JIslander]

Lol at the major wagon circling.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

The refs handle the "balls" every play. Are they not trained to detect that the PSI could be 15% off? A quick squeeze of the balls could certainly ascertain that there might be an inflation issue to deal with. Also if a TD is scored can you throw a challenge flag to check for a ball inflation infraction?

Problem is nobody has come forward saying they thought the balls felt deflated during the game

 

[amnesiac]

my guess is there is no proof and they'll pay a small fine.

same as a uniform infraction.

 

[shader]

For being cited as one of the best coaches ever, I find it alarming that after 3 days he has no idea how the balls lost 16% of their air pressure in 90 minutes despite being controlled by his staff. I always thought of him as being very detailed oriented. It sure seems like a head coach would be able to trace back all the people that would touch the balls AFTER Brady ok'd them.

To me the press conferences were about what I would expect if the franchise has been doing this for a long time. No one in the equipment is going to tinker with game balls outside of Brady's knowledge. Madden, former QBs are all saying this. Even Belichick said this. The balls are set up the way Brady likes them (which appears to be lower than the 12.5 psi mandated low despite him saying he likes them right at the edge of allowed). The statement by Brady that he touches them all and knows how he likes them pregame, but can't tell the difference of the 2-3 psi later in a game situation seems very disingenuous.

Belichick's press conference was to pass the buck to Brady. Brady's presser was just to buy time so he gets to play in the Super Bowl. I have no dog in this race, but it was hard watching Brady say things that look to be outright lies. I do think the legacies of both Belichick and Brady took a big hit this week in everyone but the biggest Patriot fan's eyes.

I'm surprised you feel this way, but many media members have similar ideas. What surprises me the most is a lack of outrage at the NFL in this case, and a willingness to throw Belicheck and Brady under the bus and call them both liars for denying wrongdoing in this case.

There are really 2 issues here:

1. A lack of facts. This is a BIG problem. We have not had the NFL come out and give us enough facts. Yet, the media, former players and everyone with an outlet is giving their opinion on a matter when they don't know the facts. The NFL isn't providing facts and thus we are all guessing on a number of important things.

2. Benefit of the doubt. The only thing we THINK we know is this: 11 of 12 balls were underinflated by 2 pounds at halftime. That's it. How did they get this way? No one has any proof. Who is the referee who did the inspection? Why isn't he being interviewed? What were the PSI of the balls 2 hours before the game? Were they manually inspected or not? Why does no one care about this, and everyone assumes that the head coach and quarterback, who are gameplanning to win an AFC championship game, were concerned with the PSI of the footballs?

The simplest answer is usually the best one. It's likely that Brady likes balls on the "deflated side", they deflate them how he likes them, and they submit them for inspection. It's likely that they were accepted without being measured and then lost a bit of pressure due to the cold. The Colts brought it to the attention of the officiating crew in the first half, possibly because they had wondered from a previous meeting and/or the Ravens and the officiating crew actually measured them and found they were under the limits. Then the balls were switched out, the game continued, and the Pats stomped the Colts.

This explanation is simple, doesn't require some grand scheme of deception by the entire organization, doesn't call for Brady and Belicheck to be bold-faced liars, doesn't involve the Patriots sneaking off with balls that Tom approved and letting out 2 pounds of air under the shadow of a tunnel, doesn't involve a scheme from Robert Kraft and Bill Belicheck to lessen the fumbles over a ten-year period, and doesn't involve a super diligent officiating crew that measures the PSI of every football and documents it.

I wish more media would call out the NFL here, instead of slam the Patriots.

I don't understand why you have this idea that the Patriots are off the hook if the NFL didn't test the balls or didn't test them properly before the game. It was the Patriots' responsibility to bring legal balls to the game. Heck, Brady himself was one of the guys that championed the rule allowing the teams to bring their own footballs, which I'm assuming came with the stipulation that those balls be legal.

Whether they were letting air out of the ball after inspection or under-inflating the balls ahead of time because they knew that the refs always skipped the inspections doesn't seem that relevant. It's like saying you don't deserve a ticket because usually when you speed in that spot, there isn't a cop there with a radar gun.

It's not the responsibility of the Patriots to inspect the balls before the game. It's the responsibility of the refs. If the refs didn't do their job than it's on them. When the balls were discovered to be too light, they were taken out of play. I honestly have no idea what you are implying here. Do you think as an organization, the Patriots should stop all preparation and make sure that the balls are up to regulation, just in case the refs don't do their job thoroughly?

It's the Patriots' responsibility to bring legal balls to the game.

It's not the players responsibility to test for steroids before the game either. Does that make it OK to use them if they don't get tested that week? Of course not, because it's their responsibility to not use steroids in the first place. A drug test, just like the ball test, is merely the enforcement of the rule. The rule still exists whether that test happens or not.

The balls are all legal, that isn't what we are discussing. We aren't talking about corked bats, golf clubs out of regulation, cleats that are too long, stick 'em on gloves. We are talking about regulation footballs with air in them. Air changes. Sometimes balls are too inflated and sometimes they are too deflated. It's the refs responsibility, based on everything I've read, to inspect the balls, and that includes making sure they are all in the correct PSI range.

I read the rules as more of a guideline to the referees. You have to have standards, so those are the standards. It helps the refs know where to inflate/deflate the balls to. Not as a rule that every team must abide by when providing their balls to the refs.

 

[shader]

The refs handle the "balls" every play. Are they not trained to detect that the PSI could be 15% off? A quick squeeze of the balls could certainly ascertain that there might be an inflation issue to deal with. Also if a TD is scored can you throw a challenge flag to check for a ball inflation infraction?

This needs to happen. We need more stoppages. I think the NFL's goal is to have football start at 6am on Sunday morning and run continuously until midnight. The more stoppages the better.

 

[Thorn]

For being cited as one of the best coaches ever, I find it alarming that after 3 days he has no idea how the balls lost 16% of their air pressure in 90 minutes despite being controlled by his staff. I always thought of him as being very detailed oriented. It sure seems like a head coach would be able to trace back all the people that would touch the balls AFTER Brady ok'd them.

To me the press conferences were about what I would expect if the franchise has been doing this for a long time. No one in the equipment is going to tinker with game balls outside of Brady's knowledge. Madden, former QBs are all saying this. Even Belichick said this. The balls are set up the way Brady likes them (which appears to be lower than the 12.5 psi mandated low despite him saying he likes them right at the edge of allowed). The statement by Brady that he touches them all and knows how he likes them pregame, but can't tell the difference of the 2-3 psi later in a game situation seems very disingenuous.

Belichick's press conference was to pass the buck to Brady. Brady's presser was just to buy time so he gets to play in the Super Bowl. I have no dog in this race, but it was hard watching Brady say things that look to be outright lies. I do think the legacies of both Belichick and Brady took a big hit this week in everyone but the biggest Patriot fan's eyes.

I'm surprised you feel this way, but many media members have similar ideas. What surprises me the most is a lack of outrage at the NFL in this case, and a willingness to throw Belicheck and Brady under the bus and call them both liars for denying wrongdoing in this case.

There are really 2 issues here:

1. A lack of facts. This is a BIG problem. We have not had the NFL come out and give us enough facts. Yet, the media, former players and everyone with an outlet is giving their opinion on a matter when they don't know the facts. The NFL isn't providing facts and thus we are all guessing on a number of important things.

2. Benefit of the doubt. The only thing we THINK we know is this: 11 of 12 balls were underinflated by 2 pounds at halftime. That's it. How did they get this way? No one has any proof. Who is the referee who did the inspection? Why isn't he being interviewed? What were the PSI of the balls 2 hours before the game? Were they manually inspected or not? Why does no one care about this, and everyone assumes that the head coach and quarterback, who are gameplanning to win an AFC championship game, were concerned with the PSI of the footballs?

The simplest answer is usually the best one. It's likely that Brady likes balls on the "deflated side", they deflate them how he likes them, and they submit them for inspection. It's likely that they were accepted without being measured and then lost a bit of pressure due to the cold. The Colts brought it to the attention of the officiating crew in the first half, possibly because they had wondered from a previous meeting and/or the Ravens and the officiating crew actually measured them and found they were under the limits. Then the balls were switched out, the game continued, and the Pats stomped the Colts.

This explanation is simple, doesn't require some grand scheme of deception by the entire organization, doesn't call for Brady and Belicheck to be bold-faced liars, doesn't involve the Patriots sneaking off with balls that Tom approved and letting out 2 pounds of air under the shadow of a tunnel, doesn't involve a scheme from Robert Kraft and Bill Belicheck to lessen the fumbles over a ten-year period, and doesn't involve a super diligent officiating crew that measures the PSI of every football and documents it.

I wish more media would call out the NFL here, instead of slam the Patriots.

I don't understand why you have this idea that the Patriots are off the hook if the NFL didn't test the balls or didn't test them properly before the game. It was the Patriots' responsibility to bring legal balls to the game. Heck, Brady himself was one of the guys that championed the rule allowing the teams to bring their own footballs, which I'm assuming came with the stipulation that those balls be legal.

Whether they were letting air out of the ball after inspection or under-inflating the balls ahead of time because they knew that the refs always skipped the inspections doesn't seem that relevant. It's like saying you don't deserve a ticket because usually when you speed in that spot, there isn't a cop there with a radar gun.

It's not the responsibility of the Patriots to inspect the balls before the game. It's the responsibility of the refs. If the refs didn't do their job than it's on them. When the balls were discovered to be too light, they were taken out of play. I honestly have no idea what you are implying here. Do you think as an organization, the Patriots should stop all preparation and make sure that the balls are up to regulation, just in case the refs don't do their job thoroughly?

It's the Patriots' responsibility to bring legal balls to the game. It's not their responsibility to enforce the rule, but it's their responsibility to follow the rule.

It's not the players responsibility to test for steroids before the game either. Does that make it OK to use them if they don't get tested that week? Of course not, because it's their responsibility to not use steroids in the first place. A drug test, just like the ball test, is merely the enforcement of the rule. The rule still exists whether that test happens or not.

But the rule says that footballs should be "offered" to the referee, who will be the "sole judge" of their fitness. The rule itself contemplates that the team will present footballs that don't meet specs, and it's on the ref to inspect and decide.

 

[Proust Loves Cake]

For being cited as one of the best coaches ever, I find it alarming that after 3 days he has no idea how the balls lost 16% of their air pressure in 90 minutes despite being controlled by his staff. I always thought of him as being very detailed oriented. It sure seems like a head coach would be able to trace back all the people that would touch the balls AFTER Brady ok'd them.

To me the press conferences were about what I would expect if the franchise has been doing this for a long time. No one in the equipment is going to tinker with game balls outside of Brady's knowledge. Madden, former QBs are all saying this. Even Belichick said this. The balls are set up the way Brady likes them (which appears to be lower than the 12.5 psi mandated low despite him saying he likes them right at the edge of allowed). The statement by Brady that he touches them all and knows how he likes them pregame, but can't tell the difference of the 2-3 psi later in a game situation seems very disingenuous.

Belichick's press conference was to pass the buck to Brady. Brady's presser was just to buy time so he gets to play in the Super Bowl. I have no dog in this race, but it was hard watching Brady say things that look to be outright lies. I do think the legacies of both Belichick and Brady took a big hit this week in everyone but the biggest Patriot fan's eyes.

I'm surprised you feel this way, but many media members have similar ideas. What surprises me the most is a lack of outrage at the NFL in this case, and a willingness to throw Belicheck and Brady under the bus and call them both liars for denying wrongdoing in this case.

There are really 2 issues here:

1. A lack of facts. This is a BIG problem. We have not had the NFL come out and give us enough facts. Yet, the media, former players and everyone with an outlet is giving their opinion on a matter when they don't know the facts. The NFL isn't providing facts and thus we are all guessing on a number of important things.

2. Benefit of the doubt. The only thing we THINK we know is this: 11 of 12 balls were underinflated by 2 pounds at halftime. That's it. How did they get this way? No one has any proof. Who is the referee who did the inspection? Why isn't he being interviewed? What were the PSI of the balls 2 hours before the game? Were they manually inspected or not? Why does no one care about this, and everyone assumes that the head coach and quarterback, who are gameplanning to win an AFC championship game, were concerned with the PSI of the footballs?

The simplest answer is usually the best one. It's likely that Brady likes balls on the "deflated side", they deflate them how he likes them, and they submit them for inspection. It's likely that they were accepted without being measured and then lost a bit of pressure due to the cold. The Colts brought it to the attention of the officiating crew in the first half, possibly because they had wondered from a previous meeting and/or the Ravens and the officiating crew actually measured them and found they were under the limits. Then the balls were switched out, the game continued, and the Pats stomped the Colts.

This explanation is simple, doesn't require some grand scheme of deception by the entire organization, doesn't call for Brady and Belicheck to be bold-faced liars, doesn't involve the Patriots sneaking off with balls that Tom approved and letting out 2 pounds of air under the shadow of a tunnel, doesn't involve a scheme from Robert Kraft and Bill Belicheck to lessen the fumbles over a ten-year period, and doesn't involve a super diligent officiating crew that measures the PSI of every football and documents it.

I wish more media would call out the NFL here, instead of slam the Patriots.

I don't understand why you have this idea that the Patriots are off the hook if the NFL didn't test the balls or didn't test them properly before the game. It was the Patriots' responsibility to bring legal balls to the game. Heck, Brady himself was one of the guys that championed the rule allowing the teams to bring their own footballs, which I'm assuming came with the stipulation that those balls be legal.

Whether they were letting air out of the ball after inspection or under-inflating the balls ahead of time because they knew that the refs always skipped the inspections doesn't seem that relevant. It's like saying you don't deserve a ticket because usually when you speed in that spot, there isn't a cop there with a radar gun.

It's not the responsibility of the Patriots to inspect the balls before the game. It's the responsibility of the refs. If the refs didn't do their job than it's on them. When the balls were discovered to be too light, they were taken out of play. I honestly have no idea what you are implying here. Do you think as an organization, the Patriots should stop all preparation and make sure that the balls are up to regulation, just in case the refs don't do their job thoroughly?

It's the Patriots' responsibility to bring legal balls to the game. It's not their responsibility to enforce the rule, but it's their responsibility to follow the rule.

It's not the players responsibility to test for steroids before the game either. Does that make it OK to use them if they don't get tested that week? Of course not, because it's their responsibility to not use steroids in the first place. A drug test, just like the ball test, is merely the enforcement of the rule. The rule still exists whether that test happens or not.

But the rule says that footballs should be "offered" to the referee, who will be the "sole judge" of their fitness. The rule itself contemplates that the team will present footballs that don't meet specs, and it's on the ref to inspect and decide.

That's all fine. But, are you willing to admit that, if the Pats brought in footballs to the refs that were at the time legal, but then came in at halftime deflated below the legal limit that there's potentially a big problem with this?

 

[Premier]

There are two things that SHOCK me in terms of the NFL.

1. They have not updated a country that for some reason has lost their mind on this story. It's running on major newscasts and CNN. I don't know why it's caught the attention of the public, but it has. The NFL is heading to super bowl week and they are basically letting the media run wild. Un-freaking-believable.

2. They have not contacted Tom Brady. Astonishing.

I know that things things have been discussed in this thread, but I am astonished that the NFL has just given the entire thing the silent treatment for three full days.

I agree on all of this.

Super Bowl week is going to be amazing.

 

[Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll]

I don't understand why something like the ball matters that much.

 

[PatsWillWin]

For being cited as one of the best coaches ever, I find it alarming that after 3 days he has no idea how the balls lost 16% of their air pressure in 90 minutes despite being controlled by his staff. I always thought of him as being very detailed oriented. It sure seems like a head coach would be able to trace back all the people that would touch the balls AFTER Brady ok'd them.

To me the press conferences were about what I would expect if the franchise has been doing this for a long time. No one in the equipment is going to tinker with game balls outside of Brady's knowledge. Madden, former QBs are all saying this. Even Belichick said this. The balls are set up the way Brady likes them (which appears to be lower than the 12.5 psi mandated low despite him saying he likes them right at the edge of allowed). The statement by Brady that he touches them all and knows how he likes them pregame, but can't tell the difference of the 2-3 psi later in a game situation seems very disingenuous.

Belichick's press conference was to pass the buck to Brady. Brady's presser was just to buy time so he gets to play in the Super Bowl. I have no dog in this race, but it was hard watching Brady say things that look to be outright lies. I do think the legacies of both Belichick and Brady took a big hit this week in everyone but the biggest Patriot fan's eyes.

I'm surprised you feel this way, but many media members have similar ideas. What surprises me the most is a lack of outrage at the NFL in this case, and a willingness to throw Belicheck and Brady under the bus and call them both liars for denying wrongdoing in this case.

There are really 2 issues here:

1. A lack of facts. This is a BIG problem. We have not had the NFL come out and give us enough facts. Yet, the media, former players and everyone with an outlet is giving their opinion on a matter when they don't know the facts. The NFL isn't providing facts and thus we are all guessing on a number of important things.

2. Benefit of the doubt. The only thing we THINK we know is this: 11 of 12 balls were underinflated by 2 pounds at halftime. That's it. How did they get this way? No one has any proof. Who is the referee who did the inspection? Why isn't he being interviewed? What were the PSI of the balls 2 hours before the game? Were they manually inspected or not? Why does no one care about this, and everyone assumes that the head coach and quarterback, who are gameplanning to win an AFC championship game, were concerned with the PSI of the footballs?

The simplest answer is usually the best one. It's likely that Brady likes balls on the "deflated side", they deflate them how he likes them, and they submit them for inspection. It's likely that they were accepted without being measured and then lost a bit of pressure due to the cold. The Colts brought it to the attention of the officiating crew in the first half, possibly because they had wondered from a previous meeting and/or the Ravens and the officiating crew actually measured them and found they were under the limits. Then the balls were switched out, the game continued, and the Pats stomped the Colts.

This explanation is simple, doesn't require some grand scheme of deception by the entire organization, doesn't call for Brady and Belicheck to be bold-faced liars, doesn't involve the Patriots sneaking off with balls that Tom approved and letting out 2 pounds of air under the shadow of a tunnel, doesn't involve a scheme from Robert Kraft and Bill Belicheck to lessen the fumbles over a ten-year period, and doesn't involve a super diligent officiating crew that measures the PSI of every football and documents it.

I wish more media would call out the NFL here, instead of slam the Patriots.

I don't understand why you have this idea that the Patriots are off the hook if the NFL didn't test the balls or didn't test them properly before the game. It was the Patriots' responsibility to bring legal balls to the game. Heck, Brady himself was one of the guys that championed the rule allowing the teams to bring their own footballs, which I'm assuming came with the stipulation that those balls be legal.

Whether they were letting air out of the ball after inspection or under-inflating the balls ahead of time because they knew that the refs always skipped the inspections doesn't seem that relevant. It's like saying you don't deserve a ticket because usually when you speed in that spot, there isn't a cop there with a radar gun.

It's not the responsibility of the Patriots to inspect the balls before the game. It's the responsibility of the refs. If the refs didn't do their job than it's on them. When the balls were discovered to be too light, they were taken out of play. I honestly have no idea what you are implying here. Do you think as an organization, the Patriots should stop all preparation and make sure that the balls are up to regulation, just in case the refs don't do their job thoroughly?

It's the Patriots' responsibility to bring legal balls to the game. It's not their responsibility to enforce the rule, but it's their responsibility to follow the rule.

It's not the players responsibility to test for steroids before the game either. Does that make it OK to use them if they don't get tested that week? Of course not, because it's their responsibility to not use steroids in the first place. A drug test, just like the ball test, is merely the enforcement of the rule. The rule still exists whether that test happens or not.

But the rule says that footballs should be "offered" to the referee, who will be the "sole judge" of their fitness. The rule itself contemplates that the team will present footballs that don't meet specs, and it's on the ref to inspect and decide.

That's all fine. But, are you willing to admit that, if the Pats brought in footballs to the refs that were at the time legal, but then came in at halftime deflated below the legal limit that there's potentially a big problem with this?

I am, yes.

 

[Run It Up]

I don't understand why something like the ball matters that much.

It doesn't, the rule that Brady and Manning came together to pass made sense, because it stopped the home team from just supplying ####ty balls. But other than that, theres no reason respective offenses shouldn't be able to use whatever ####### preference they have.

That's all fine. But, are you willing to admit that, if the Pats brought in footballs to the refs that were at the time legal, but then came in at halftime deflated below the legal limit that there's potentially a big problem with this?

I am, yes.

As am I, as stated throughout this thread several times, its the clear difference between cheating and not.

 

[flapgreen]

i think it's cute that some of you think your favorite teams don't cheat.

No kidding...

 

[flapgreen]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/most-troubling-out-of-tom-brady-s-deflate-gate-comments--league-hasn-t-talked-to-qb-234447768.html

 

[Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll]

FYI, in basketball the home team gets to put whatever pressure they want into the ball, within reason.

 

[Thorn]

I don't understand why something like the ball matters that much.

It doesn't, the rule that Brady and Manning came together to pass made sense, because it stopped the home team from just supplying ####ty balls. But other than that, theres no reason respective offenses shouldn't be able to use whatever ####### preference they have.

That's all fine. But, are you willing to admit that, if the Pats brought in footballs to the refs that were at the time legal, but then came in at halftime deflated below the legal limit that there's potentially a big problem with this?

I am, yes.

As am I, as stated throughout this thread several times, its the clear difference between cheating and not.

I am, so long as they tested them with a gauge before and at the half. There's at least a chance they just did some ball-squeezing before and called it good.

 

[Bucky86]

FYI, in basketball the home team gets to put whatever pressure they want into the ball, within reason.

They use the same ball in basketball. HTH

 

[RenegadeRoy]

Say the Colts won. Would this even be a story?

 

[devouredbychaos]

NFL.com reporting the balls the Patriots used in the first half were actually the Colts..

When Colts linebacker D'Qwell Jackson intercepted a pass in the first half of Sunday's game, he had plenty of reasons to keep that football. After all, it happened during the AFC Championship Game. Tom Brady threw it. And it was his first postseason pick of a nine-year career.

One reason he didn't keep it? Air pressure.

"I wanted that ball as a souvenir!" Jackson told NFL Media during a phone conversation Thursday.

Eventually, Jackson hopes he will indeed get the football back. But for now, it remains in the possession of the NFL, which is investigating whether the Patriots deliberately deflated the ball to gain an advantage.

Until Jackson gets it back, though, he at least wants to make something very clear: He did not intend to prompt the investigation. Jackson says he actually did not even know the ball was taken or that the controversy existed until he was being driven home from the team's charter plane after the Colts had arrived in Indianapolis.

"I wouldn't know how that could even be an advantage or a disadvantage," Jackson said. "I definitely wouldn't be able to tell if one ball had less pressure than another."

Jackson also said he holds no bitter feelings toward the Patriots -- nor does he feel his team was cheated -- if indeed New England deliberately deflated the footballs.

"It wouldn't have changed the outcome of the game," Jackson said. "They outplayed us. We didn't match their intensity. I don't feel slighted at all personally. They created turnovers, they ran the ball on us. They won that game because of their intensity -- not the pressure of a football."

Jackson does, however, recall one interesting moment during the first half that has something to do with the latest controversy. He recalls, during a television timeout, there was an especially long delay that prompted him to approach an official.

The game official mentioned something about their efforts to locate a usable football. Shortly after, Jackson noticed that the Patriots were using the Colts' footballs late in the first half. Jackson said it was odd to him that New England couldn't find a football to use, especially in the AFC Championship Game.

But he never understood that what he was witnessing what would indeed be the beginnings of a controversy that has engulfed the sports world since.

"I mean, Anderson Cooper asked my agent if I could come on his show," Jackson said. "I'm honored that he wants to talk to me, I guess, but I really just wanted my souvenir from a special accomplishment in my career."

Follow Jeff Darlington on Twitter @JeffDarlington.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Say the Colts won. Would this even be a story?

HAHAHAHA...the colts win....thats funny HAHAHAHA

 

[Bossman]

This whole thing is hilarious.

To further cloud the issue, Indianapolis Colts linebacker DQwell Jackson, who says he didnt snitch on the Patriots in the AFC Championship Game, told NFL Medias Jeff Darlington on Thursday that Brady was using a Colts football at the end of the first half Sunday night

D'Qwell Jackson did not snitch. The initial report reads that he intercepted the pass and gave the ball to the Colts equipment manager....

probably to keep for him as a "this is the ball that I intercepted in the AFC championship game" thing.

The Colts equipment manager is the one who noticed the ball was slightly under-inflated and took it to the team higher ups.

Media screwed up this part of the story as well saying D'Qwell noticed under inflation. Just because the media prints it, doesn't meen they are right.

 

[Proust Loves Cake]

I don't understand why something like the ball matters that much.

It doesn't, the rule that Brady and Manning came together to pass made sense, because it stopped the home team from just supplying ####ty balls. But other than that, theres no reason respective offenses shouldn't be able to use whatever ####### preference they have.

That's all fine. But, are you willing to admit that, if the Pats brought in footballs to the refs that were at the time legal, but then came in at halftime deflated below the legal limit that there's potentially a big problem with this?

I am, yes.

As am I, as stated throughout this thread several times, its the clear difference between cheating and not.

I am, so long as they tested them with a gauge before and at the half. There's at least a chance they just did some ball-squeezing before and called it good.

There's a chance. I assume the protocol is use of a gauge test before the game. Perhaps not. If not, then this is much ado about nothing. But, if they used a gauge before the game and at halftime and if there was a difference, there will be sanctions against the Pats, and it will be painful.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

This whole thing is hilarious.

To further cloud the issue, Indianapolis Colts linebacker DQwell Jackson, who says he didnt snitch on the Patriots in the AFC Championship Game, told NFL Medias Jeff Darlington on Thursday that Brady was using a Colts football at the end of the first half Sunday night

D'Qwell Jackson did not snitch. The initial report reads that he intercepted the pass and gave the ball to the Colts equipment manager....

probably to keep for him as a "this is the ball that I intercepted in the AFC championship game" thing.

The Colts equipment manager is the one who noticed the ball was slightly under-inflated and took it to the team higher ups.

Media screwed up this part of the story as well saying D'Qwell noticed under inflation. Just because the media prints it, doesn't meen they are right.

I don't think the media even screwed it up. That's exactly what they reported on ESPN the first day. That the equipment manager brought it up after the Jackson INT. It just got lost in translation through the forum that people started saying Jackson was the one that noticed. I don't think the media (at least not ESPN) ever even reported that. I remember watching the story break on ESPN and them specifically saying that it was the equipment manager that noticed.

 

[Tool]

Tom couldn't tell the difference. Riiiiiiight

How would you know if he could tell the difference. God some of these posts really test the limits of stupidity.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Say the Colts won. Would this even be a story?

Being the patriots, yes. Any other team, probably not.