Patriots being investigated after Colts game (2 Viewers)

[MG345]

Grantland's nfl podcast is out and Barnwell blew off the fumble thing pretty strongly. He called it the Wyatt Earp effect. I have no idea what that is but he says it's where if you look hard enough for an outlier you'll find one.

He puts it down to drafting good ball handlers and pass happiness.

I'm not a numbers guy so, I'm just passing that along.

Could be. The stark drop in 2007 when the rule changed is what really interested me, especially compared to the rest of the league. Only one team got significantly BETTER over that time period. What happened in 2007 that sparked the change? Drafting techniques? Ball handling techniques? Or maybe not.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

Grantland's nfl podcast is out and Barnwell blew off the fumble thing pretty strongly. He called it the Wyatt Earp effect. I have no idea what that is but he says it's where if you look hard enough

for an outlier you'll find one.

He puts it down to drafting good ball handlers and pass happiness.

I'm not a numbers guy so, I'm just passing that along.

Well, typically it is bad science to start with a conclusion and then go find the data to support it.

 

[RUSF18]

I was going to say what other areas can NE be accused of cheating (there potentially could be plenty), and I was going to throw out the field as one of them (as a joke). But then I remembered they had a time when that really did happen. At one point, they still had a grass field and left it beaten down and uneven and teams complained. Then without really telling anyone they resodded the field and it was terrible. The seams weren't great, huge chunks and divots would come out, and it was like playing in a minefield. Then they went to sports turf and I can remember people complaining about when they covered or cleared the field. And who could forget 30+ years ago dragging out the snowplow to clear a spot to make a game winning kick in a blizzard. So add "field preparation and maintenance" to the long list of ways that NE has pushed the envelope.

I'm reasonably confident Belichick has found an engineer who has developed retractable and expandable goal posts. They - very slowly so it's hard to tell with the naked eye - move in a few inches when the opponent is kicking and expand when NE kicks.

Reasonably confident.

 

[MG345]

Here is an interesting excerpt from one of the articles posted.

"The game official mentioned something about their efforts to locate a usable football. Shortly after, Jackson noticed that the Patriots were using the Colts' footballs late in the first half. Jackson said it was odd to him that New England couldn't find a football to use, especially in the AFC Championship Game"

This happened during an especially long timeout in the first. It appears to me that at some point a referee noticed a Patriots ball was under inflated based on the feel, and probably went to the ball boys to get another and noticed they all felt a little off, thus forcing him to go to the Colts ball boy in order to get the game going again.

Yeah, that part stuck out to me too.

It means that some teams place a premium on getting guys who dont fumble and if they do, they don't play.

The Pats almost never spend money or high draft picks on RBs. If this was baseball, and Billy Beane was Bill Belichick, people would be calling him a genius for finding a market inefficiency

Yeah, and didnt the Pats happen to draft some kid that carried the ball almost 1000 times in college with zero fumbles? And didnt he contribute over 500 touches to those stats with zero fumbles? Were they letting out the air at Indiana?

This air thing is WAY out of control. What else has it done? How many sacks has it accounted for by the Patriots defense?

I wouldn't waste a single minute of your time reading conspiracy theories that try and pin this on a lack of fumbles by the Patriots. Absolutely ludicrous.

Haters gonna hate, right? Seriously people, find something better to do with your time then try and pin this on a lack of fumbles by the Patriots. I've never seen a group of grown men so bitter over a football team. The fact that this thread is 60 pages long, all due to speculation and allegations is quite hilarious. Can't wait to see the reaction when it comes out that the Patriots had no part in this.

But it isn't speculation. The balls were under inflated.

So I guess I missed when the NFL came out and said that the balls were under inflated... Again, you're basing your claims off of Mortenson's report. That's speculation.

Wait...are you contesting that the balls weren't under inflated? at any point in time?

 

[shader]

You know what else is really out of the norm for the Patriots?

12 division titles in 14 seasons!

OMG CONSPIRACY!!! THEY'VE OBVIOUSLY BEEN USING DEFLATED BALLS THE WHOLE TIME!!! No one else has done that, so it's gotta be cheating!!!

Well, yes, apparently they've been using either Spygate or Deflate gate for each and every one of those seasons.

This is like saying "You know what else Barry Bonds did?? 762 Homeruns! OMG He was obviously juicing the whole time." Obviously he was a very talented player, even great as a 5 tool player early in his career. But his record is tarnished because of cheating.

Terrible analogy, but then i'm not surprised you guys are missing the point here.

It's actually a perfect analogy. Other players juiced, just like other teams (probably deflated). Bonds was good before, just like the Pats are good without cheating.

Logic and experience shows you that steroids help you hit more home runs. This proven by the super crazy home run numbers of that generation.

There is no proof whatsoever that having a deflated ball will cause you to fumble less, and even less proof that they've been systematically deflating their balls for ten years. I would expect a team that won 12 of 14 division titles to lead the league in a lot of categories over that period of time.

 

[JIslander]

Grantland's nfl podcast is out and Barnwell blew off the fumble thing pretty strongly. He called it the Wyatt Earp effect. I have no idea what that is but he says it's where if you look hard enough

for an outlier you'll find one.

He puts it down to drafting good ball handlers and pass happiness.

I'm not a numbers guy so, I'm just passing that along.

Well, typically it is bad science to start with a conclusion and then go find the data to support it.

yeah, like fossils?

 

[Anarchy99]

I have not read one page of this thread, because it is a waste of time. Who cares? Refs will start supplying the balls. Problem gone.

Huh? Anyone who cares about an organization systematically cheating. Problem is not gone when refs start supplying the balls, unless you think the deflated balls are the problem. Maybe you should read the thread or not comment.

I doubt the Pats change how they operate over this, so BB will not turn into a squeaky clean choir boy after this.

And here in NE I have heard some people suggest that this will spell the end of BB in NE as the Krafts will have had enough and fire him. To which I say, BB has brought the Krafts a huge windfall of almost epic proportions. Kraft bought the team for $172 million and 20 years later it's valued by Forbes at $1.4 billion. I suspect that is just the team and not the entire complex and compound that is around the stadium.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

Grantland's nfl podcast is out and Barnwell blew off the fumble thing pretty strongly. He called it the Wyatt Earp effect. I have no idea what that

is but he says it's where if you look hard enough

for an outlier you'll find one.

He puts it down to drafting good ball handlers and pass happiness.

I'm not a numbers guy so, I'm just passing that

along.

Well, typically it is bad science to start with a conclusion and then go find the data to support it.

yeah, like fossils?

What does the old Giants coach have to do with it?

 

[MG345]

You know what else is really out of the norm for the Patriots?

12 division titles in 14 seasons!

OMG CONSPIRACY!!! THEY'VE OBVIOUSLY BEEN USING DEFLATED BALLS THE WHOLE TIME!!! No one else has done that, so it's gotta be cheating!!!

Well, yes, apparently they've been using either Spygate or Deflate gate for each and every one of those seasons.

This is like saying "You know what else Barry Bonds did?? 762 Homeruns! OMG He was obviously juicing the whole time." Obviously he was a very talented player, even great as a 5 tool player early in his career. But his record is tarnished because of cheating.

Terrible analogy, but then i'm not surprised you guys are missing the point here.

It's actually a perfect analogy. Other players juiced, just like other teams (probably deflated). Bonds was good before, just like the Pats are good without cheating.

Logic and experience shows you that steroids help you hit more home runs. This proven by the super crazy home run numbers of that generation.

There is no proof whatsoever that having a deflated ball will cause you to fumble less, and even less proof that they've been systematically deflating their balls for ten years. I would expect a team that won 12 of 14 division titles to lead the league in a lot of categories over that period of time.

Logic and experience shows you that a ball that is easier to grip (under inflated) would be easier to hold on to, thus making the ball carrier less prone to fumble. Logic AND experience.

 

[shader]

You know what else is really out of the norm for the Patriots?

12 division titles in 14 seasons!

OMG CONSPIRACY!!! THEY'VE OBVIOUSLY BEEN USING DEFLATED BALLS THE WHOLE TIME!!! No one else has done that, so it's gotta be cheating!!!

Well, yes, apparently they've been using either Spygate or Deflate gate for each and every one of those seasons.

This is like saying "You know what else Barry Bonds did?? 762 Homeruns! OMG He was obviously juicing the whole time." Obviously he was a very talented player, even great as a 5 tool player early in his career. But his record is tarnished because of cheating.

Terrible analogy, but then i'm not surprised you guys are missing the point here.

It's actually a perfect analogy. Other players juiced, just like other teams (probably deflated). Bonds was good before, just like the Pats are good without cheating.

Logic and experience shows you that steroids help you hit more home runs. This proven by the super crazy home run numbers of that generation.

There is no proof whatsoever that having a deflated ball will cause you to fumble less, and even less proof that they've been systematically deflating their balls for ten years. I would expect a team that won 12 of 14 division titles to lead the league in a lot of categories over that period of time.

Logic and experience shows you that a ball that is easier to grip (under inflated) would be easier to hold on to, thus making the ball carrier less prone to fumble. Logic AND experience.

 

[Gandalf the Grey]

I have not read one page of this thread, because it is a waste of time. Who cares? Refs will start supplying the balls. Problem gone.

Huh? Anyone who cares about an organization systematically cheating. Problem is not gone when refs start supplying the balls, unless you think the deflated balls are the problem. Maybe you should read the thread or not comment.

I doubt the Pats change how they operate over this, so BB will not turn into a squeaky clean choir boy after this.And here in NE I have heard some people suggest that this will spell the end of BB in NE as the Krafts will have had enough and fire him. To which I say, BB has brought the Krafts a huge windfall of almost epic proportions. Kraft bought the team for $172 million and 20 years later it's valued by Forbes at $1.4 billion. I suspect that is just the team and not the entire complex and compound that is around the stadium.

You could be right. However, depending on the outcome of all this it's inevitable that the level of scrutiny this organization will receive will skyrocket. It seems logical to expect-again depending on the outcome-an organizational response.

And-presuming a negative outcome-that epic windfall will be mitigated to a large degree going forward

 

[Touchdown There]

I have not read one page of this thread, because it is a waste of time. Who cares? Refs will start supplying the balls. Problem gone.

Huh? Anyone who cares about an organization systematically cheating. Problem is not gone when refs start supplying the balls, unless you think the deflated balls are the problem. Maybe you should read the thread or not comment.

You are being emotional and pissy. Refs bring balls supplied by league, problem over. Teams don't pick them or touch them before field time. No balls belong to either side or a kicker or qb or any other position. The ball the ref hands you is the ball put in play.Toss in some pressure checks at halftime. Really easy fix so take a breath

 

[MG345]

You know what else is really out of the norm for the Patriots?

12 division titles in 14 seasons!

OMG CONSPIRACY!!! THEY'VE OBVIOUSLY BEEN USING DEFLATED BALLS THE WHOLE TIME!!! No one else has done that, so it's gotta be cheating!!!

Well, yes, apparently they've been using either Spygate or Deflate gate for each and every one of those seasons.

This is like saying "You know what else Barry Bonds did?? 762 Homeruns! OMG He was obviously juicing the whole time." Obviously he was a very talented player, even great as a 5 tool player early in his career. But his record is tarnished because of cheating.

Terrible analogy, but then i'm not surprised you guys are missing the point here.

It's actually a perfect analogy. Other players juiced, just like other teams (probably deflated). Bonds was good before, just like the Pats are good without cheating.

Logic and experience shows you that steroids help you hit more home runs. This proven by the super crazy home run numbers of that generation.

There is no proof whatsoever that having a deflated ball will cause you to fumble less, and even less proof that they've been systematically deflating their balls for ten years. I would expect a team that won 12 of 14 division titles to lead the league in a lot of categories over that period of time.

Logic and experience shows you that a ball that is easier to grip (under inflated) would be easier to hold on to, thus making the ball carrier less prone to fumble. Logic AND experience.

I know, that is pretty funny right? Using someone's own words in an argument against them..,

 

[Bucky86]

You know what else is really out of the norm for the Patriots?

12 division titles in 14 seasons!

OMG CONSPIRACY!!! THEY'VE OBVIOUSLY BEEN USING DEFLATED BALLS THE WHOLE TIME!!! No one else has done that, so it's gotta be cheating!!!

Well, yes, apparently they've been using either Spygate or Deflate gate for each and every one of those seasons.

This is like saying "You know what else Barry Bonds did?? 762 Homeruns! OMG He was obviously juicing the whole time." Obviously he was a very talented player, even great as a 5 tool player early in his career. But his record is tarnished because of cheating.

Terrible analogy, but then i'm not surprised you guys are missing the point here.

It's actually a perfect analogy. Other players juiced, just like other teams (probably deflated). Bonds was good before, just like the Pats are good without cheating.

Logic and experience shows you that steroids help you hit more home runs. This proven by the super crazy home run numbers of that generation.

There is no proof whatsoever that having a deflated ball will cause you to fumble less, and even less proof that they've been systematically deflating their balls for ten years. I would expect a team that won 12 of 14 division titles to lead the league in a lot of categories over that period of time.

Logic and experience shows you that a ball that is easier to grip (under inflated) would be easier to hold on to, thus making the ball carrier less prone to fumble. Logic AND experience.

I'm now convinced.

 

[shader]

You know what else is really out of the norm for the Patriots?

12 division titles in 14 seasons!

OMG CONSPIRACY!!! THEY'VE OBVIOUSLY BEEN USING DEFLATED BALLS THE WHOLE TIME!!! No one else has done that, so it's gotta be cheating!!!

Well, yes, apparently they've been using either Spygate or Deflate gate for each and every one of those seasons.

This is like saying "You know what else Barry Bonds did?? 762 Homeruns! OMG He was obviously juicing the whole time." Obviously he was a very talented player, even great as a 5 tool player early in his career. But his record is tarnished because of cheating.

Terrible analogy, but then i'm not surprised you guys are missing the point here.

It's actually a perfect analogy. Other players juiced, just like other teams (probably deflated). Bonds was good before, just like the Pats are good without cheating.

Logic and experience shows you that steroids help you hit more home runs. This proven by the super crazy home run numbers of that generation.

There is no proof whatsoever that having a deflated ball will cause you to fumble less, and even less proof that they've been systematically deflating their balls for ten years. I would expect a team that won 12 of 14 division titles to lead the league in a lot of categories over that period of time.

Logic and experience shows you that a ball that is easier to grip (under inflated) would be easier to hold on to, thus making the ball carrier less prone to fumble. Logic AND experience.

I'm now convinced.

You were already convinced. Quick you guys go find some more offensive categories that the Patriots did well in over the last decade so you can use that as proof they've been cheating.

 

[MG345]

You know what else is really out of the norm for the Patriots?

12 division titles in 14 seasons!

OMG CONSPIRACY!!! THEY'VE OBVIOUSLY BEEN USING DEFLATED BALLS THE WHOLE TIME!!! No one else has done that, so it's gotta be cheating!!!

Well, yes, apparently they've been using either Spygate or Deflate gate for each and every one of those seasons.

This is like saying "You know what else Barry Bonds did?? 762 Homeruns! OMG He was obviously juicing the whole time." Obviously he was a very talented player, even great as a 5 tool player early in his career. But his record is tarnished because of cheating.

Terrible analogy, but then i'm not surprised you guys are missing the point here.

It's actually a perfect analogy. Other players juiced, just like other teams (probably deflated). Bonds was good before, just like the Pats are good without cheating.

Logic and experience shows you that steroids help you hit more home runs. This proven by the super crazy home run numbers of that generation.

There is no proof whatsoever that having a deflated ball will cause you to fumble less, and even less proof that they've been systematically deflating their balls for ten years. I would expect a team that won 12 of 14 division titles to lead the league in a lot of categories over that period of time.

Logic and experience shows you that a ball that is easier to grip (under inflated) would be easier to hold on to, thus making the ball carrier less prone to fumble. Logic AND experience.

I'm now convinced.

You were already convinced. Quick you guys go find some more offensive categories that the Patriots did well in over the last decade so you can use that as proof they've been cheating.

They lead the league in balls deflated on the sidelines since 2007.

 

[Anarchy99]

LOL at the mess up contained within . . .

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/01/23/opinion/jones-patriots-super-bowl/index.html?eref=edition

CNN calling for the Pats to be DQ'd from the SB and the BRONCOS selected to represent the AFC (later changed to the Colts).

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

You know what else is really out of the norm for the Patriots?

12 division titles in 14 seasons!

OMG CONSPIRACY!!! THEY'VE OBVIOUSLY BEEN USING DEFLATED BALLS THE WHOLE TIME!!! No one else has done that, so it's gotta be cheating!!!

That Division is so weak outside of the Taintriots that my Aunt Tillie and her Knit one, Purl two Allstars could win that Division 7 out of 14 years, and each of Aunt Tillie's Allstar's has had at least one hip replacement.

 

[Gandalf the Grey]

I have not read one page of this thread, because it is a waste of time. Who cares? Refs will start supplying the balls. Problem gone.

Huh? Anyone who cares about an organization systematically cheating. Problem is not gone when refs start supplying the balls, unless you think the deflated balls are the problem. Maybe you should read the thread or not comment.

You are being emotional and pissy. Refs bring balls supplied by league, problem over. Teams don't pick them or touch them before field time. No balls belong to either side or a kicker or qb or any other position. The ball the ref hands you is the ball put in play.Toss in some pressure checks at halftime. Really easy fix so take a breath

Lol I'm not being emotional and pissy. I'm saying you're missing the point like so many others in this thread (it didn't affect the outcome of the game!!!!)

Ball deflation is the smaller issue. The relevant issue is whether this organization is guilty-again-of cheating. Make the ball issue go away and it doesn't resolve the larger issue. If it's not the inflation of the footballs, or illegal videotaping, or lying on the injury report (not accusing them of this, just using it as an example), what is it going to be next? That's what's important here.

 

[JIslander]

LOL at the mess up contained within . . .

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/01/23/opinion/jones-patriots-super-bowl/index.html?eref=edition

CNN calling for the Pats to be DQ'd from the SB and the BRONCOS selected to represent the AFC (later changed to the Colts).

That is truly awful!

It should be the Ravens.

 

[12punch]

LOL at the mess up contained within . . .

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/01/23/opinion/jones-patriots-super-bowl/index.html?eref=edition

CNN calling for the Pats to be DQ'd from the SB and the BRONCOS selected to represent the AFC (later changed to the Colts).

why do these people always have to embed a picture of themselves?

 

[12punch]

LOL at the mess up contained within . . .

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/01/23/opinion/jones-patriots-super-bowl/index.html?eref=edition

CNN calling for the Pats to be DQ'd from the SB and the BRONCOS selected to represent the AFC (later changed to the Colts).

that chick actually reminds me of a lot of posters in this thread

 

[caabeel]

You know what else is really out of the norm for the Patriots?

12 division titles in 14 seasons!

OMG CONSPIRACY!!! THEY'VE OBVIOUSLY BEEN USING DEFLATED BALLS THE WHOLE TIME!!! No one else has done that, so it's gotta be cheating!!!

Well, yes, apparently they've been using either Spygate or Deflate gate for each and every one of those seasons.

This is like saying "You know what else Barry Bonds did?? 762 Homeruns! OMG He was obviously juicing the whole time." Obviously he was a very talented player, even great as a 5 tool player early in his career. But his record is tarnished because of cheating.

Terrible analogy, but then i'm not surprised you guys are missing the point here.

It's actually a perfect analogy. Other players juiced, just like other teams (probably deflated). Bonds was good before, just like the Pats are good without cheating.

Logic and experience shows you that steroids help you hit more home runs. This proven by the super crazy home run numbers of that generation.

There is no proof whatsoever that having a deflated ball will cause you to fumble less, and even less proof that they've been systematically deflating their balls for ten years. I would expect a team that won 12 of 14 division titles to lead the league in a lot of categories over that period of time.

Logic and experience shows you that a ball that is easier to grip (under inflated) would be easier to hold on to, thus making the ball carrier less prone to fumble. Logic AND experience.

I know, that is pretty funny right? Using someone's own words in an argument against them..,

Well said.

 

[Touchdown There]

I have not read one page of this thread, because it is a waste of time. Who cares? Refs will start supplying the balls. Problem gone.

Huh? Anyone who cares about an organization systematically cheating. Problem is not gone when refs start supplying the balls, unless you think the deflated balls are the problem. Maybe you should read the thread or not comment.

You are being emotional and pissy. Refs bring balls supplied by league, problem over. Teams don't pick them or touch them before field time. No balls belong to either side or a kicker or qb or any other position. The ball the ref hands you is the ball put in play.Toss in some pressure checks at halftime. Really easy fix so take a breath

Lol I'm not being emotional and pissy. I'm saying you're missing the point like so many others in this thread (it didn't affect the outcome of the game!!!!)Ball deflation is the smaller issue. The relevant issue is whether this organization is guilty-again-of cheating. Make the ball issue go away and it doesn't resolve the larger issue. If it's not the inflation of the footballs, or illegal videotaping, or lying on the injury report (not accusing them of this, just using it as an example), what is it going to be next? That's what's important here.

We need to predict what is next? Fix ball issue, move on.

 

[MG345]

I mean the real question is...think of how many fantasy football games have been determined by this?

 

[shader]

You know what else is really out of the norm for the Patriots?

12 division titles in 14 seasons!

OMG CONSPIRACY!!! THEY'VE OBVIOUSLY BEEN USING DEFLATED BALLS THE WHOLE TIME!!! No one else has done that, so it's gotta be cheating!!!

That Division is so weak outside of the Taintriots that my Aunt Tillie and her Knit one, Purl two Allstars could win that Division 7 out of 14 years, and each of Aunt Tillie's Allstar's has had at least one hip replacement.

Well maybe thats why their fumbles are down.

 

[Bucky86]

Did the statistics guy do a study on all other teams playing in inclement weather? How do the Patriots compare?

 

[Gandalf the Grey]

I have not read one page of this thread, because it is a waste of time. Who cares? Refs will start supplying the balls. Problem gone.

Huh? Anyone who cares about an organization systematically cheating. Problem is not gone when refs start supplying the balls, unless you think the deflated balls are the problem. Maybe you should read the thread or not comment.

You are being emotional and pissy. Refs bring balls supplied by league, problem over. Teams don't pick them or touch them before field time. No balls belong to either side or a kicker or qb or any other position. The ball the ref hands you is the ball put in play.Toss in some pressure checks at halftime. Really easy fix so take a breath

Lol I'm not being emotional and pissy. I'm saying you're missing the point like so many others in this thread (it didn't affect the outcome of the game!!!!)Ball deflation is the smaller issue. The relevant issue is whether this organization is guilty-again-of cheating. Make the ball issue go away and it doesn't resolve the larger issue. If it's not the inflation of the footballs, or illegal videotaping, or lying on the injury report (not accusing them of this, just using it as an example), what is it going to be next? That's what's important here.

We need to predict what is next? Fix ball issue, move on.

So you're saying the league has to play whack-a-mole with the Patriots? I'd say the better response, depending on the outcome of the investigation, is to make it too costly for the Pats to continue business as usual. Treating ball deflation as a one time occurrence won't do that (which seems to be what you're suggesting).

 

[KarmaPolice]

Colts balls were at 14 PSI. Close enough to the 13.5 that the officials didn't care. Pats balls were at 12 PSI. Close enough that officials didn't care.

All balls lose 1.5 PSI due to conditions. Colts balls are at 12.5, and deemed within the acceptable range. Pats balls are down to 10.5 PSI, which is the 2 PSI difference from acceptable.

I'm just making #### up obviously.

That's not what happened though, there was no significant loss of PSI on the Colts' balls. If all the balls PSI dropped an even amount, this wouldn't be an issue. Hell, the 12 balls from NE didn't deflate at a common rate so that even points further to tampering.

he just gave an example of what is being talked about. No numbers have been given of what the colts started at or where at halftime.It is possible that all balls dropped but the one set were still in legal range because they started out that much higher to begin with.

There is only a 1 PSI range for the legal balls. Even if the top of the range fell from 13.5 to 12.5 and the lowest fell from 12.5 to 11.5 it wouldn't explain the drop that was seen on Sunday.

again, we have seen no hard #s on what the numbers were, have we? Just an insider report? Maybe i missed something today though.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

You know what else is really out of the norm for the Patriots?

12 division titles in 14 seasons!

OMG CONSPIRACY!!! THEY'VE OBVIOUSLY BEEN USING DEFLATED BALLS THE WHOLE TIME!!! No one else has done that, so it's gotta be cheating!!!

That Division is so weak outside of the Taintriots that my Aunt Tillie and her Knit one, Purl two Allstars could win that Division 7 out of 14 years, and each of Aunt Tillie's Allstar's has had at least one hip replacement.

Well maybe thats why their fumbles are down.

A logical theory that I am willing to get behind. I like logic.

 

[devouredbychaos]

Colts balls were at 14 PSI. Close enough to the 13.5 that the officials didn't care. Pats balls were at 12 PSI. Close enough that officials didn't care.

All balls lose 1.5 PSI due to conditions. Colts balls are at 12.5, and deemed within the acceptable range. Pats balls are down to 10.5 PSI, which is the 2 PSI difference from acceptable.

I'm just making #### up obviously.

That's not what happened though, there was no significant loss of PSI on the Colts' balls. If all the balls PSI dropped an even amount, this wouldn't be an issue. Hell, the 12 balls from NE didn't deflate at a common rate so that even points further to tampering.

he just gave an example of what is being talked about. No numbers have been given of what the colts started at or where at halftime.It is possible that all balls dropped but the one set were still in legal range because they started out that much higher to begin with.

There is only a 1 PSI range for the legal balls. Even if the top of the range fell from 13.5 to 12.5 and the lowest fell from 12.5 to 11.5 it wouldn't explain the drop that was seen on Sunday.

again, we have seen no hard #s on what the numbers were, have we? Just an insider report? Maybe i missed something today though.

There's been no hard numbers WHATSOEVER. Everyone is basing everything off of speculation, which is why I find this whole ordeal absolutely hilarious. "BUT MORTENSON SAID IT SO IT MUST BE RIGHT!" Lol.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

This is like an episode of CSI > PSI

 

[Road Warriors]

Here is an interesting excerpt from one of the articles posted.

"The game official mentioned something about their efforts to locate a usable football. Shortly after, Jackson noticed that the Patriots were using the Colts' footballs late in the first half. Jackson said it was odd to him that New England couldn't find a football to use, especially in the AFC Championship Game"

This happened during an especially long timeout in the first. It appears to me that at some point a referee noticed a Patriots ball was under inflated based on the feel, and probably went to the ball boys to get another and noticed they all felt a little off, thus forcing him to go to the Colts ball boy in order to get the game going again.

Yeah, that part stuck out to me too.

It means that some teams place a premium on getting guys who dont fumble and if they do, they don't play.

The Pats almost never spend money or high draft picks on RBs. If this was baseball, and Billy Beane was Bill Belichick, people would be calling him a genius for finding a market inefficiency

Yeah, and didnt the Pats happen to draft some kid that carried the ball almost 1000 times in college with zero fumbles? And didnt he contribute over 500 touches to those stats with zero fumbles? Were they letting out the air at Indiana?

This air thing is WAY out of control. What else has it done? How many sacks has it accounted for by the Patriots defense?

I wouldn't waste a single minute of your time reading conspiracy theories that try and pin this on a lack of fumbles by the Patriots. Absolutely ludicrous.

Haters gonna hate, right? Seriously people, find something better to do with your time then try and pin this on a lack of fumbles by the Patriots. I've never seen a group of grown men so bitter over a football team. The fact that this thread is 60 pages long, all due to speculation and allegations is quite hilarious. Can't wait to see the reaction when it comes out that the Patriots had no part in this.

But it isn't speculation. The balls were under inflated.

So I guess I missed when the NFL came out and said that the balls were under inflated... Again, you're basing your claims off of Mortenson's report. That's speculation.

you might want to read the NFL statement released today.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Could be they are so used to playing with Bill's old, slick, cold beat up balls during practice holding on to a normal set of balls during a game is easier. I guess that might be too simple.

 

[devouredbychaos]

Here is an interesting excerpt from one of the articles posted.

"The game official mentioned something about their efforts to locate a usable football. Shortly after, Jackson noticed that the Patriots were using the Colts' footballs late in the first half. Jackson said it was odd to him that New England couldn't find a football to use, especially in the AFC Championship Game"

This happened during an especially long timeout in the first. It appears to me that at some point a referee noticed a Patriots ball was under inflated based on the feel, and probably went to the ball boys to get another and noticed they all felt a little off, thus forcing him to go to the Colts ball boy in order to get the game going again.

Yeah, that part stuck out to me too.

It means that some teams place a premium on getting guys who dont fumble and if they do, they don't play.

The Pats almost never spend money or high draft picks on RBs. If this was baseball, and Billy Beane was Bill Belichick, people would be calling him a genius for finding a market inefficiency

Yeah, and didnt the Pats happen to draft some kid that carried the ball almost 1000 times in college with zero fumbles? And didnt he contribute over 500 touches to those stats with zero fumbles? Were they letting out the air at Indiana?

This air thing is WAY out of control. What else has it done? How many sacks has it accounted for by the Patriots defense?

I wouldn't waste a single minute of your time reading conspiracy theories that try and pin this on a lack of fumbles by the Patriots. Absolutely ludicrous.

Haters gonna hate, right? Seriously people, find something better to do with your time then try and pin this on a lack of fumbles by the Patriots. I've never seen a group of grown men so bitter over a football team. The fact that this thread is 60 pages long, all due to speculation and allegations is quite hilarious. Can't wait to see the reaction when it comes out that the Patriots had no part in this.

But it isn't speculation. The balls were under inflated.

So I guess I missed when the NFL came out and said that the balls were under inflated... Again, you're basing your claims off of Mortenson's report. That's speculation.

you might want to read the NFL statement released today.

"Our office has been conducting an investigation as to whether the footballs used in last Sundays AFC Championship Game complied with the specifications that are set forth in the playing rules. The investigation began based on information that suggested that the game balls used by the New England Patriots were not properly inflated to levels required by the playing rules, specifically Playing Rule 2, Section 1, which requires that the ball be inflated to between 12.5 and 13.5 pounds per square inch. Prior to the game, the game officials inspect the footballs to be used by each team and confirm that this standard is satisfied, which was done before last Sundays game.""Suggested" being the key word

 

[KarmaPolice]

Here is an interesting excerpt from one of the articles posted.

"The game official mentioned something about their efforts to locate a usable football. Shortly after, Jackson noticed that the Patriots were using the Colts' footballs late in the first half. Jackson said it was odd to him that New England couldn't find a football to use, especially in the AFC Championship Game"

This happened during an especially long timeout in the first. It appears to me that at some point a referee noticed a Patriots ball was under inflated based on the feel, and probably went to the ball boys to get another and noticed they all felt a little off, thus forcing him to go to the Colts ball boy in order to get the game going again.

Yeah, that part stuck out to me too.

It means that some teams place a premium on getting guys who dont fumble and if they do, they don't play.

The Pats almost never spend money or high draft picks on RBs. If this was baseball, and Billy Beane was Bill Belichick, people would be calling him a genius for finding a market inefficiency

Yeah, and didnt the Pats happen to draft some kid that carried the ball almost 1000 times in college with zero fumbles? And didnt he contribute over 500 touches to those stats with zero fumbles? Were they letting out the air at Indiana?

This air thing is WAY out of control. What else has it done? How many sacks has it accounted for by the Patriots defense?

I wouldn't waste a single minute of your time reading conspiracy theories that try and pin this on a lack of fumbles by the Patriots. Absolutely ludicrous.

Haters gonna hate, right? Seriously people, find something better to do with your time then try and pin this on a lack of fumbles by the Patriots. I've never seen a group of grown men so bitter over a football team. The fact that this thread is 60 pages long, all due to speculation and allegations is quite hilarious. Can't wait to see the reaction when it comes out that the Patriots had no part in this.

But it isn't speculation. The balls were under inflated.

So I guess I missed when the NFL came out and said that the balls were under inflated... Again, you're basing your claims off of Mortenson's report. That's speculation.

you might want to read the NFL statement released today.

we all did. There are no starting and ending of the balls used anywhere in there. That is a major piece of info we are waiting for.

 

[Lutherman2112]

Here's another great one: Did the NFL run a sting operation on the Patriots?


Here's the last paragraph:

If all that is true, why wouldn’t the league let the Patriots know that they were being monitored? If they were hoping to catch New England in the act like many have said, does that mean Roger Goodell was willing to compromise the integrity of the first half of one of the biggest games of the year just to catch the Patriots red-handed? Or did the league let the Patriots know they were being watched, and Brady and whoever else brushed it off and did their thing anyway?

These are the questions…

 

[Road Warriors]

Here is an interesting excerpt from one of the articles posted.

"The game official mentioned something about their efforts to locate a usable football. Shortly after, Jackson noticed that the Patriots were using the Colts' footballs late in the first half. Jackson said it was odd to him that New England couldn't find a football to use, especially in the AFC Championship Game"

This happened during an especially long timeout in the first. It appears to me that at some point a referee noticed a Patriots ball was under inflated based on the feel, and probably went to the ball boys to get another and noticed they all felt a little off, thus forcing him to go to the Colts ball boy in order to get the game going again.

Yeah, that part stuck out to me too.

It means that some teams place a premium on getting guys who dont fumble and if they do, they don't play.

The Pats almost never spend money or high draft picks on RBs. If this was baseball, and Billy Beane was Bill Belichick, people would be calling him a genius for finding a market inefficiency

Yeah, and didnt the Pats happen to draft some kid that carried the ball almost 1000 times in college with zero fumbles? And didnt he contribute over 500 touches to those stats with zero fumbles? Were they letting out the air at Indiana?

This air thing is WAY out of control. What else has it done? How many sacks has it accounted for by the Patriots defense?

I wouldn't waste a single minute of your time reading conspiracy theories that try and pin this on a lack of fumbles by the Patriots. Absolutely ludicrous.

Haters gonna hate, right? Seriously people, find something better to do with your time then try and pin this on a lack of fumbles by the Patriots. I've never seen a group of grown men so bitter over a football team. The fact that this thread is 60 pages long, all due to speculation and allegations is quite hilarious. Can't wait to see the reaction when it comes out that the Patriots had no part in this.

But it isn't speculation. The balls were under inflated.

So I guess I missed when the NFL came out and said that the balls were under inflated... Again, you're basing your claims off of Mortenson's report. That's speculation.

you might want to read the NFL statement released today.

we all did. There are no starting and ending of the balls used anywhere in there. That is a major piece of info we are weighting for.

Agreed, but they do state they were under inflated, as I was replying to the bolded above.

 

[Niles Standish]

You know what else is really out of the norm for the Patriots?

12 division titles in 14 seasons!

OMG CONSPIRACY!!! THEY'VE OBVIOUSLY BEEN USING DEFLATED BALLS THE WHOLE TIME!!! No one else has done that, so it's gotta be cheating!!!

Well, yes, apparently they've been using either Spygate or Deflate gate for each and every one of those seasons.This is like saying "You know what else Barry Bonds did?? 762 Homeruns! OMG He was obviously juicing the whole time." Obviously he was a very talented player, even great as a 5 tool player early in his career. But his record is tarnished because of cheating.

Terrible analogy, but then i'm not surprised you guys are missing the point here.

It's actually a perfect analogy. Other players juiced, just like other teams (probably deflated). Bonds was good before, just like the Pats are good without cheating.

Logic and experience shows you that steroids help you hit more home runs. This proven by the super crazy home run numbers of that generation.

There is no proof whatsoever that having a deflated ball will cause you to fumble less, and even less proof that they've been systematically deflating their balls for ten years. I would expect a team that won 12 of 14 division titles to lead the league in a lot of categories over that period of time.

Logic and experience shows you that a ball that is easier to grip (under inflated) would be easier to hold on to, thus making the ball carrier less prone to fumble. Logic AND experience.

Logic doesn't say that at all. It may be true but typically players run with a ball held against their body. Every argument about the ball being easier to hold is one handed like when you're throwing. I don't know that it's easier to hold a minimally deflated ball against your body. Something squishy might push through more easily than something rigid.

 

[Lutherman2112]

Is there a list of excuses?

1. Officials didn't measure the pressure properly, so we don't know what the pregame pressure was.

2. The weather caused the loss of pressure.

3.

What am I missing? Haven't read entire thread.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Is there a list of excuses?

1. Officials didn't measure the pressure properly, so we don't know what the pregame pressure was.

2. The weather caused the loss of pressure.

3.

What am I missing?

Depends on what else comes out.

 

[the moops]

The theory that a ball boy or Brady himself secretly let air out of the footballs after the officials OK'ed them is so much more believable than the one that the officials just didn't measure properly in the first place

 

[KarmaPolice]

Here is an interesting excerpt from one of the articles posted.

"The game official mentioned something about their efforts to locate a usable football. Shortly after, Jackson noticed that the Patriots were using the Colts' footballs late in the first half. Jackson said it was odd to him that New England couldn't find a football to use, especially in the AFC Championship Game"

This happened during an especially long timeout in the first. It appears to me that at some point a referee noticed a Patriots ball was under inflated based on the feel, and probably went to the ball boys to get another and noticed they all felt a little off, thus forcing him to go to the Colts ball boy in order to get the game going again.

Yeah, that part stuck out to me too.

It means that some teams place a premium on getting guys who dont fumble and if they do, they don't play.

The Pats almost never spend money or high draft picks on RBs. If this was baseball, and Billy Beane was Bill Belichick, people would be calling him a genius for finding a market inefficiency

Yeah, and didnt the Pats happen to draft some kid that carried the ball almost 1000 times in college with zero fumbles? And didnt he contribute over 500 touches to those stats with zero fumbles? Were they letting out the air at Indiana?

This air thing is WAY out of control. What else has it done? How many sacks has it accounted for by the Patriots defense?

I wouldn't waste a single minute of your time reading conspiracy theories that try and pin this on a lack of fumbles by the Patriots. Absolutely ludicrous.

Haters gonna hate, right? Seriously people, find something better to do with your time then try and pin this on a lack of fumbles by the Patriots. I've never seen a group of grown men so bitter over a football team. The fact that this thread is 60 pages long, all due to speculation and allegations is quite hilarious. Can't wait to see the reaction when it comes out that the Patriots had no part in this.

But it isn't speculation. The balls were under inflated.

So I guess I missed when the NFL came out and said that the balls were under inflated... Again, you're basing your claims off of Mortenson's report. That's speculation.

you might want to read the NFL statement released today.

we all did. There are no starting and ending of the balls used anywhere in there. That is a major piece of info we are weighting for.

Agreed, but they do state they were under inflated, as I was replying to the bolded above.

ok, but what if it was by .5 psi instead of 2 like the initial "report"? These are the numbers we need.

I did find it odd that Bill did use #s in his presser and said they would now start at 12.8 (or something like that) to account for any drop in psi.

 

[devouredbychaos]

Here is an interesting excerpt from one of the articles posted.

"The game official mentioned something about their efforts to locate a usable football. Shortly after, Jackson noticed that the Patriots were using the Colts' footballs late in the first half. Jackson said it was odd to him that New England couldn't find a football to use, especially in the AFC Championship Game"

This happened during an especially long timeout in the first. It appears to me that at some point a referee noticed a Patriots ball was under inflated based on the feel, and probably went to the ball boys to get another and noticed they all felt a little off, thus forcing him to go to the Colts ball boy in order to get the game going again.

Yeah, that part stuck out to me too.

It means that some teams place a premium on getting guys who dont fumble and if they do, they don't play.

The Pats almost never spend money or high draft picks on RBs. If this was baseball, and Billy Beane was Bill Belichick, people would be calling him a genius for finding a market inefficiency

Yeah, and didnt the Pats happen to draft some kid that carried the ball almost 1000 times in college with zero fumbles? And didnt he contribute over 500 touches to those stats with zero fumbles? Were they letting out the air at Indiana?

This air thing is WAY out of control. What else has it done? How many sacks has it accounted for by the Patriots defense?

I wouldn't waste a single minute of your time reading conspiracy theories that try and pin this on a lack of fumbles by the Patriots. Absolutely ludicrous.

Haters gonna hate, right? Seriously people, find something better to do with your time then try and pin this on a lack of fumbles by the Patriots. I've never seen a group of grown men so bitter over a football team. The fact that this thread is 60 pages long, all due to speculation and allegations is quite hilarious. Can't wait to see the reaction when it comes out that the Patriots had no part in this.

But it isn't speculation. The balls were under inflated.

So I guess I missed when the NFL came out and said that the balls were under inflated... Again, you're basing your claims off of Mortenson's report. That's speculation.

you might want to read the NFL statement released today.

we all did. There are no starting and ending of the balls used anywhere in there. That is a major piece of info we are weighting for.

Agreed, but they do state they were under inflated, as I was replying to the bolded above.

Did you not just read my reply? It wasn't stated. They said they're looking into it because it was "suggested" the balls were under inflated.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

The theory that a ball boy or Brady himself secretly let air out of the footballs after the officials OK'ed them is so much more believable than the one that the officials just didn't measure properly in the first place

they dont call them the ball boys for nuthin...maybe they did ''things'' to the officials balls as a favor to look the other way?

 

[General Tso]

Has any credible source reported that the refs used a gauge to inspect the balls pre-game?

 

[Bucky86]

The theory that a ball boy or Brady himself secretly let air out of the footballs after the officials OK'ed them is so much more believable than the one that the officials just didn't measure properly in the first place

That's much more unbelievable than that the refs would improperly measure ONLY the Patriots balls.

 

[the moops]

The theory that a ball boy or Brady himself secretly let air out of the footballs after the officials OK'ed them is so much more believable than the one that the officials just didn't measure properly in the first place

That's much more unbelievable than that the refs would improperly measure ONLY the Patriots balls.

huh?

 

[cstu]

Here's a question though. Cold weather teams fumble more. But cold weather teams also (assuming on average everyone starts at the same inflation) have less inflation due to temperature.

Some science guy help me out with this one.

BAM!!

Cold fingers, harder ground.

advancedfootballanalytics is on it.

Nice post.

Incredible post. Good work.

So what if the Pats ball security vs their opponents magically got better the same year the rules were changed to allow the visitors to bring their own balls. I mean, that could be just another in a string of huge coincidences.

 

[Willie Neslon]

Anyone else think this is a complete non-story and the amount of coverage over it is ridiculous?