Patriots being investigated after Colts game (6 Viewers)

[pizzatyme]

Rumor has it that Goodell has inspected all of the Patriots balls and finds them to be just the right size.

 

[the moops]

And now it comes out that Akron Rodgers likes his balls overinflated and tries to get away with it whenever he can

I'm hearing reports of this as well. Apparently Rodgers said this during a tv interview in the middle of the season and everyone just laughed at it.This thing is going to get beyond ridiculous...

http://vid809.photobucket.com/albums/zz11/mascho030916/Football%20Central/ScreenCaptureProject295.mp4

 

[thatguy]

The orignal story was written by Bob Kravitz of the Indy Star right?

Pointless story about Kravitz below (almost certainly not worth your time; but this reminded me of something long since forgotten, plus I'm bored):

Kravitz used to write for the Rocky Mountain News (a Denver paper, has since been acquired by the Denver Post). Long long time ago, this was. He frequented the same bar as my mother and stepfather in the late 80's--my sister and I were dragged along on many a night, given a handful of quarters, and told to go play Pacman or video poker. Sometimes we played, other times we kind of wandered around and, in time, we became mascots of sort for the Conville's crew--it was a tight-knit group, good people all. Ah but not Kravitz. Kravitz, he was different, cold, not like the rest. I have no specific memories to speak of--he never spoke to me, he merely looked at me; all I have is the memory of my 6 year old self's conviction in the belief that Kravitz was somehow wrong, cruel even. A few years later, when I was 9 or 10, the Conville's days but a distant memory, my love of all things Denver sports at a fever pitch, I began to read the sports section of the Rocky Mountain News religiously, front to back every day after school. And like that, Kravitz was back in my life, staring at me just as he had years ago, now from the picture that graced his daily articles, his unsmiling face considering me in that off-putting way some adults use to disarm and frighten unassuming children, as if for no other reason than it pleases them to do so. Despite the unsettling memory the first time I saw that face again, I read his article anyway. He was so smug and arrogant in his writing, and I finally understood fully, if not yet in words then at least conceptually, what it was about him that had led to such a strong aversion years earlier. Children have good instincts, I've heard it said. I believe this to be true. Despite my disdain, I read his articles daily; to spite Kravitz, or maybe so that my dislike for the man might grow, or perhaps just to punish myself, as a religious fanatic might repent by wearing a cilice for two hours a day. Anyway, I still remember Bob's final article in the News... What a joyous occasion! With a single word, and I should note, the only worthwhile word he ever wrote in Denver, the cilice loosened forever. The word: goodbye.

Anyway, I'm bored this morning, couldn't sleep. That's my Bob Kravitz story. Glad to know he's as insufferable as ever. I'd expect nothing less; I'd be disappointed with anything more. Hell, maybe he's not actually a bad dude. Perhaps my childhood intuition was merely irrational fear; perhaps Bob looked at me like that because that's simply how he looks. Perhaps he looked at me like that because he found it despicable that parents would allow their young children to spend so much time in a bar, and had he thought that, may well have been right. But man, whatever it was, he didn't merely make me uncomfortable. He scared the #### out of me. Whatever though. I do know that he's as smug, opinionated, and arrogant as they come. But that at least is probably in his job description.

I'm curious, Colts fans, do you guys like this cat?

Oh, yes. This seals the deal.

eta* Whoooops, that was your own experience. Shoot, I thought it was an article. Please disregard my sarcastic response. Not sure I agree that children are the greatest judges of character, but that's at least an interesting story.

No worries. I agree. Like I said maybe Bob just looked that way. Some people have unfortunate looking faces which can be quite a hindrance. Just felt like sharing a memory that this story unearthed. It's certainly not pertinent to the issue; if anything it's tangential, barely, due solely to the Kravitz connection. Mostly I'm curious if people in Indy like Kravitz.

 

[rockaction]

And now it comes out that Akron Rodgers likes his balls overinflated and tries to get away with it whenever he can

I'm hearing reports of this as well. Apparently Rodgers said this during a tv interview in the middle of the season and everyone just laughed at it.This thing is going to get beyond ridiculous...

http://vid809.photobucket.com/albums/zz11/mascho030916/Football%20Central/ScreenCaptureProject295.mp4

And it's still illegal.

 

[Bad_Mo]

The orignal story was written by Bob Kravitz of the Indy Star right?

Pointless story about Kravitz below (almost certainly not worth your time; but this reminded me of something long since forgotten, plus I'm bored):

Kravitz used to write for the Rocky Mountain News (a Denver paper, has since been acquired by the Denver Post). Long long time ago, this was. He frequented the same bar as my mother and stepfather in the late 80's--my sister and I were dragged along on many a night, given a handful of quarters, and told to go play Pacman or video poker. Sometimes we played, other times we kind of wandered around and, in time, we became mascots of sort for the Conville's crew--it was a tight-knit group, good people all. Ah but not Kravitz. Kravitz, he was different, cold, not like the rest. I have no specific memories to speak of--he never spoke to me, he merely looked at me; all I have is the memory of my 6 year old self's conviction in the belief that Kravitz was somehow wrong, cruel even. A few years later, when I was 9 or 10, the Conville's days but a distant memory, my love of all things Denver sports at a fever pitch, I began to read the sports section of the Rocky Mountain News religiously, front to back every day after school. And like that, Kravitz was back in my life, staring at me just as he had years ago, now from the picture that graced his daily articles, his unsmiling face considering me in that off-putting way some adults use to disarm and frighten unassuming children, as if for no other reason than it pleases them to do so. Despite the unsettling memory the first time I saw that face again, I read his article anyway. He was so smug and arrogant in his writing, and I finally understood fully, if not yet in words then at least conceptually, what it was about him that had led to such a strong aversion years earlier. Children have good instincts, I've heard it said. I believe this to be true. Despite my disdain, I read his articles daily; to spite Kravitz, or maybe so that my dislike for the man might grow, or perhaps just to punish myself, as a religious fanatic might repent by wearing a cilice for two hours a day. Anyway, I still remember Bob's final article in the News... What a joyous occasion! With a single word, and I should note, the only worthwhile word he ever wrote in Denver, the cilice loosened forever. The word: goodbye.

Anyway, I'm bored this morning, couldn't sleep. That's my Bob Kravitz story. Glad to know he's as insufferable as ever. I'd expect nothing less; I'd be disappointed with anything more. Hell, maybe he's not actually a bad dude. Perhaps my childhood intuition was merely irrational fear; perhaps Bob looked at me like that because that's simply how he looks. Perhaps he looked at me like that because he found it despicable that parents would allow their young children to spend so much time in a bar, and had he thought that, may well have been right. But man, whatever it was, he didn't merely make me uncomfortable. He scared the #### out of me. Whatever though. I do know that he's as smug, opinionated, and arrogant as they come. But that at least is probably in his job description.

I'm curious, Colts fans, do you guys like this cat?

It seems quite obvious, based on your story, that Kravitz is a bitter drunk who hates children. He has pushed this BS story, despite it being a non-issue, in a veiled attempt to destroy the New England children's memories of their favorite team. Trying to keep the word "cheaters" in the public forum as long as possible, hoping that the youngsters from the East start to believe his vitriol. Well, Bob...our little tikes are smarter than you think.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

It is pretty funny how tightly wadded JohnnyU panties are over this. Given his history on this forum, I'm about 95% certain he has a room in his house dedicated to some form of voodoo cursing of the patriots/brady. Not sure I've ever seen a presumably grown man this obsessed with something of this nature.

Carry on with the tinfoil hattage. This is entertaining reading

well, I'd have to just assume it's the usual trolling.

just kind of in an odd manner.

using your team's 45-7 humiliation as bait isn't what you'd normally see, but I guess a lot of these 'fans' have to work with what they've got.

ordinarily, I'd expect to see more of a giants angle, or something like that --- not rubbing our faces in a 45-7 shellacking you know most pats fans were howling through the 2nd half on.

i mean, jesus......45-7

 

[rockaction]

The orignal story was written by Bob Kravitz of the Indy Star right?

Pointless story about Kravitz below (almost certainly not worth your time; but this reminded me of something long since forgotten, plus I'm bored):

Kravitz used to write for the Rocky Mountain News (a Denver paper, has since been acquired by the Denver Post). Long long time ago, this was. He frequented the same bar as my mother and stepfather in the late 80's--my sister and I were dragged along on many a night, given a handful of quarters, and told to go play Pacman or video poker. Sometimes we played, other times we kind of wandered around and, in time, we became mascots of sort for the Conville's crew--it was a tight-knit group, good people all. Ah but not Kravitz. Kravitz, he was different, cold, not like the rest. I have no specific memories to speak of--he never spoke to me, he merely looked at me; all I have is the memory of my 6 year old self's conviction in the belief that Kravitz was somehow wrong, cruel even. A few years later, when I was 9 or 10, the Conville's days but a distant memory, my love of all things Denver sports at a fever pitch, I began to read the sports section of the Rocky Mountain News religiously, front to back every day after school. And like that, Kravitz was back in my life, staring at me just as he had years ago, now from the picture that graced his daily articles, his unsmiling face considering me in that off-putting way some adults use to disarm and frighten unassuming children, as if for no other reason than it pleases them to do so. Despite the unsettling memory the first time I saw that face again, I read his article anyway. He was so smug and arrogant in his writing, and I finally understood fully, if not yet in words then at least conceptually, what it was about him that had led to such a strong aversion years earlier. Children have good instincts, I've heard it said. I believe this to be true. Despite my disdain, I read his articles daily; to spite Kravitz, or maybe so that my dislike for the man might grow, or perhaps just to punish myself, as a religious fanatic might repent by wearing a cilice for two hours a day. Anyway, I still remember Bob's final article in the News... What a joyous occasion! With a single word, and I should note, the only worthwhile word he ever wrote in Denver, the cilice loosened forever. The word: goodbye.

Anyway, I'm bored this morning, couldn't sleep. That's my Bob Kravitz story. Glad to know he's as insufferable as ever. I'd expect nothing less; I'd be disappointed with anything more. Hell, maybe he's not actually a bad dude. Perhaps my childhood intuition was merely irrational fear; perhaps Bob looked at me like that because that's simply how he looks. Perhaps he looked at me like that because he found it despicable that parents would allow their young children to spend so much time in a bar, and had he thought that, may well have been right. But man, whatever it was, he didn't merely make me uncomfortable. He scared the #### out of me. Whatever though. I do know that he's as smug, opinionated, and arrogant as they come. But that at least is probably in his job description.

I'm curious, Colts fans, do you guys like this cat?

It seems quite obvious, based on your story, that Kravitz is a bitter drunk who hates children. He has pushed this BS story, despite it being a non-issue, in a veiled attempt to destroy the New England children's memories of their favorite team. Trying to keep the word "cheaters" in the public forum as long as possible, hoping that the youngsters from the East start to believe his vitriol. Well, Bob...our little tikes are smarter than you think.

 

[thatguy]

The orignal story was written by Bob Kravitz of the Indy Star right?

Pointless story about Kravitz below (almost certainly not worth your time; but this reminded me of something long since forgotten, plus I'm bored):

Kravitz used to write for the Rocky Mountain News (a Denver paper, has since been acquired by the Denver Post). Long long time ago, this was. He frequented the same bar as my mother and stepfather in the late 80's--my sister and I were dragged along on many a night, given a handful of quarters, and told to go play Pacman or video poker. Sometimes we played, other times we kind of wandered around and, in time, we became mascots of sort for the Conville's crew--it was a tight-knit group, good people all. Ah but not Kravitz. Kravitz, he was different, cold, not like the rest. I have no specific memories to speak of--he never spoke to me, he merely looked at me; all I have is the memory of my 6 year old self's conviction in the belief that Kravitz was somehow wrong, cruel even. A few years later, when I was 9 or 10, the Conville's days but a distant memory, my love of all things Denver sports at a fever pitch, I began to read the sports section of the Rocky Mountain News religiously, front to back every day after school. And like that, Kravitz was back in my life, staring at me just as he had years ago, now from the picture that graced his daily articles, his unsmiling face considering me in that off-putting way some adults use to disarm and frighten unassuming children, as if for no other reason than it pleases them to do so. Despite the unsettling memory the first time I saw that face again, I read his article anyway. He was so smug and arrogant in his writing, and I finally understood fully, if not yet in words then at least conceptually, what it was about him that had led to such a strong aversion years earlier. Children have good instincts, I've heard it said. I believe this to be true. Despite my disdain, I read his articles daily; to spite Kravitz, or maybe so that my dislike for the man might grow, or perhaps just to punish myself, as a religious fanatic might repent by wearing a cilice for two hours a day. Anyway, I still remember Bob's final article in the News... What a joyous occasion! With a single word, and I should note, the only worthwhile word he ever wrote in Denver, the cilice loosened forever. The word: goodbye.

Anyway, I'm bored this morning, couldn't sleep. That's my Bob Kravitz story. Glad to know he's as insufferable as ever. I'd expect nothing less; I'd be disappointed with anything more. Hell, maybe he's not actually a bad dude. Perhaps my childhood intuition was merely irrational fear; perhaps Bob looked at me like that because that's simply how he looks. Perhaps he looked at me like that because he found it despicable that parents would allow their young children to spend so much time in a bar, and had he thought that, may well have been right. But man, whatever it was, he didn't merely make me uncomfortable. He scared the #### out of me. Whatever though. I do know that he's as smug, opinionated, and arrogant as they come. But that at least is probably in his job description.

I'm curious, Colts fans, do you guys like this cat?

It seems quite obvious, based on your story, that Kravitz is a bitter drunk who hates children. He has pushed this BS story, despite it being a non-issue, in a veiled attempt to destroy the New England children's memories of their favorite team. Trying to keep the word "cheaters" in the public forum as long as possible, hoping that the youngsters from the East start to believe his vitriol. Well, Bob...our little tikes are smarter than you think.

 

[JohnnyU]

It is pretty funny how tightly wadded JohnnyU panties are over this. Given his history on this forum, I'm about 95% certain he has a room in his house dedicated to some form of voodoo cursing of the patriots/brady. Not sure I've ever seen a presumably grown man this obsessed with something of this nature.

Carry on with the tinfoil hattage. This is entertaining reading

I hate the Patriots and their fans, but mostly I hate Belechick. I don't hate Brady regardless of what you may think. He's one of the greatest QBs of all time, but I do think he rode the coattails of the current Indy kicker and a great defense.

 

[LBH]

It is pretty funny how tightly wadded JohnnyU panties are over this. Given his history on this forum, I'm about 95% certain he has a room in his house dedicated to some form of voodoo cursing of the patriots/brady. Not sure I've ever seen a presumably grown man this obsessed with something of this nature.

Carry on with the tinfoil hattage. This is entertaining reading

I hate the Patriots and their fans, but mostly I hate Belechick. I don't hate Brady regardless of what you may think. He's one of the greatest QBs of all time, but I do think he road the coattails of the current Indy kicker and a great defense.

Rode

 

[[icon]]

And now it comes out that Akron Rodgers likes his balls overinflated and tries to get away with it whenever he can

I'm hearing reports of this as well. Apparently Rodgers said this during a tv interview in the middle of the season and everyone just laughed at it.This thing is going to get beyond ridiculous...

http://vid809.photobucket.com/albums/zz11/mascho030916/Football%20Central/ScreenCaptureProject295.mp4

That sneaky Belichick! Now's he's Over-inflating Aaron Rodgers balls!!!

 

[JohnnyU]

It is pretty funny how tightly wadded JohnnyU panties are over this. Given his history on this forum, I'm about 95% certain he has a room in his house dedicated to some form of voodoo cursing of the patriots/brady. Not sure I've ever seen a presumably grown man this obsessed with something of this nature.

Carry on with the tinfoil hattage. This is entertaining reading

I hate the Patriots and their fans, but mostly I hate Belechick. I don't hate Brady regardless of what you may think. He's one of the greatest QBs of all time, but I do think he road the coattails of the current Indy kicker and a great defense.

Rode

duh, that was a slip up, lol.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

It is pretty funny how tightly wadded JohnnyU panties are over this. Given his history on this forum, I'm about 95% certain he has a room in his house dedicated to some form of voodoo cursing of the patriots/brady. Not sure I've ever seen a presumably grown man this obsessed with something of this nature.

Carry on with the tinfoil hattage. This is entertaining reading

I hate the Patriots and their fans, but mostly I hate Belechick. I don't hate Brady regardless of what you may think. He's one of the greatest QBs of all time, but I do think he rode the coattails of the current Indy kicker cheater and a great defense.

 

[JohnnyU]

It is pretty funny how tightly wadded JohnnyU panties are over this. Given his history on this forum, I'm about 95% certain he has a room in his house dedicated to some form of voodoo cursing of the patriots/brady. Not sure I've ever seen a presumably grown man this obsessed with something of this nature.

Carry on with the tinfoil hattage. This is entertaining reading

I hate the Patriots and their fans, but mostly I hate Belechick. I don't hate Brady regardless of what you may think. He's one of the greatest QBs of all time, but I do think he road the coattails of the current Indy kicker and a great defense.

Rode

duh, that was a slip up, lol.

I see that symbol (your avatar) a lot on Ebay. Do you sell a lot of football cards on Ebay?

 

[[icon]]

It is pretty funny how tightly wadded JohnnyU panties are over this. Given his history on this forum, I'm about 95% certain he has a room in his house dedicated to some form of voodoo cursing of the patriots/brady. Not sure I've ever seen a presumably grown man this obsessed with something of this nature.

Carry on with the tinfoil hattage. This is entertaining reading

well, I'd have to just assume it's the usual trolling.

just kind of in an odd manner.

using your team's 45-7 humiliation as bait isn't what you'd normally see, but I guess a lot of these 'fans' have to work with what they've got.

ordinarily, I'd expect to see more of a giants angle, or something like that --- not rubbing our faces in a 45-7 shellacking you know most pats fans were howling through the 2nd half on.

i mean, jesus......45-7

It happened.

 

[[icon]]

It is pretty funny how tightly wadded JohnnyU panties are over this. Given his history on this forum, I'm about 95% certain he has a room in his house dedicated to some form of voodoo cursing of the patriots/brady. Not sure I've ever seen a presumably grown man this obsessed with something of this nature.

Carry on with the tinfoil hattage. This is entertaining reading

I hate the Patriots and their fans, but mostly I hate Belechick. I don't hate Brady regardless of what you may think. He's one of the greatest QBs of all time, but I do think he road the coattails of the current Indy kicker and a great defense.

Rode

duh, that was a slip up, lol.

Belichick.

 

[JohnnyU]

It is pretty funny how tightly wadded JohnnyU panties are over this. Given his history on this forum, I'm about 95% certain he has a room in his house dedicated to some form of voodoo cursing of the patriots/brady. Not sure I've ever seen a presumably grown man this obsessed with something of this nature.

Carry on with the tinfoil hattage. This is entertaining reading

I hate the Patriots and their fans, but mostly I hate Belechick. I don't hate Brady regardless of what you may think. He's one of the greatest QBs of all time, but I do think he road the coattails of the current Indy kicker and a great defense.

Rode

duh, that was a slip up, lol.

Belichick.

It's Ok to misspell his name.

 

[LBH]

It is pretty funny how tightly wadded JohnnyU panties are over this. Given his history on this forum, I'm about 95% certain he has a room in his house dedicated to some form of voodoo cursing of the patriots/brady. Not sure I've ever seen a presumably grown man this obsessed with something of this nature.

Carry on with the tinfoil hattage. This is entertaining reading

I hate the Patriots and their fans, but mostly I hate Belechick. I don't hate Brady regardless of what you may think. He's one of the greatest QBs of all time, but I do think he road the coattails of the current Indy kicker and a great defense.

Rode

duh, that was a slip up, lol.

I see that symbol (your avatar) a lot on Ebay. Do you sell a lot of football cards on Ebay?

Nope. Buy a lot of stuff from there though. Im a licensed maine guide in whitewater rafting, fishing and recreation.

 

[JohnnyU]

It is pretty funny how tightly wadded JohnnyU panties are over this. Given his history on this forum, I'm about 95% certain he has a room in his house dedicated to some form of voodoo cursing of the patriots/brady. Not sure I've ever seen a presumably grown man this obsessed with something of this nature.

Carry on with the tinfoil hattage. This is entertaining reading

I hate the Patriots and their fans, but mostly I hate Belechick. I don't hate Brady regardless of what you may think. He's one of the greatest QBs of all time, but I do think he road the coattails of the current Indy kicker and a great defense.

Rode

duh, that was a slip up, lol.

I see that symbol (your avatar) a lot on Ebay. Do you sell a lot of football cards on Ebay?

Nope. Buy a lot of stuff from there though. Im a licensed maine guide in whitewater rafting, fishing and recreation.

Cool occupation. I'm a boring software engineer that has 10 years until retirement.

 

[Bad_Mo]

Based on the in-game comment about how Aaron Rodgers tries to get away with using over-inflated balls...

Is the league trying to make teams play with balls, with an ideal PSI which makes it extremely difficult to throw?

Seems like there are two camps here...(1) those who love throwing under inflated balls, and (2) those who love throwing over inflated balls.

Surely there must be a sound byte or two where QBs are stating that throwing a perfectly inflated ball, as prescribed by the league's requirements, is ideal. No?

 

[Flying Elvis]

We would have won without our cheating is not an argument I would make. I would argue there was no cheating.

I also believe the Pats would have won without cheating, so if true, why the cheating? Just because it wasn't the difference in the game doesn't make it less important. What else are they doing? It's not like they don't have a checkered past.

Colts get their ### kicked by the Pats in the playoffs, the Colts organization whines to the league.

In other news, the sun rose in the east today.

Good grief what a pathetic bunch of whiney losers.....

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the same Colts organization whine to the league after Peyton set all those records in 2004 about the Pats beating them 20 - 3 in the playoff game? Isn't that why we have the illegal contact penalty now?

You're wrong.

Actually, he's right. Polian's classic-Colts whining is exactly why the illegal contact rule exists. Must be something in the water in the region. Extra runoff because the reservoir is too close to the groves of sour grapes, I suppose.

 

[JohnnyU]

Based on the in-game comment about how Aaron Rodgers tries to get away with using over-inflated balls...

Is the league trying to make teams play with balls, with an ideal PSI which makes it extremely difficult to throw?

Seems like there are two camps here...(1) those who love throwing under inflated balls, and (2) those who love throwing over inflated balls.

Surely there must be a sound byte or two where QBs are stating that throwing a perfectly inflated ball, as prescribed by the league's requirements, is ideal. No?

Anyone remember watching NFL films of 1950s games where they used those white balls? On film they looked very large.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

We would have won without our cheating is not an argument I would make. I would argue there was no cheating.

I also believe the Pats would have won without cheating, so if true, why the cheating? Just because it wasn't the difference in the game doesn't make it less important. What else are they doing? It's not like they don't have a checkered past.

Colts get their ### kicked by the Pats in the playoffs, the Colts organization whines to the league.

In other news, the sun rose in the east today.

Good grief what a pathetic bunch of whiney losers.....

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the same Colts organization whine to the league after Peyton set all those records in 2004 about the Pats beating them 20 - 3 in the playoff game? Isn't that why we have the illegal contact penalty now?

You're wrong.

Actually, he's right. Polian's classic-Colts whining is exactly why the illegal contact rule exists. Must be something in the water in the region. Extra runoff because the reservoir is too close to the groves of sour grapes, I suppose.

I wouldn't judge too harshly -- decades of emasculation is bound to raise the estrogen level

could happen to anyone

just kind of ironic this latest bit of histrionics is over shriveled balls

 

[Workhorse]

Based on the in-game comment about how Aaron Rodgers tries to get away with using over-inflated balls...

Is the league trying to make teams play with balls, with an ideal PSI which makes it extremely difficult to throw?

Seems like there are two camps here...(1) those who love throwing under inflated balls, and (2) those who love throwing over inflated balls.

Surely there must be a sound byte or two where QBs are stating that throwing a perfectly inflated ball, as prescribed by the league's requirements, is ideal. No?

I think the story is that the officials don't really monitor this stuff very carefully prior to a game because it just isn't that important.

 

[msudaisy26]

We would have won without our cheating is not an argument I would make. I would argue there was no cheating.

I also believe the Pats would have won without cheating, so if true, why the cheating? Just because it wasn't the difference in the game doesn't make it less important. What else are they doing? It's not like they don't have a checkered past.

Colts get their ### kicked by the Pats in the playoffs, the Colts organization whines to the league.

In other news, the sun rose in the east today.

Good grief what a pathetic bunch of whiney losers.....

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the same Colts organization whine to the league after Peyton set all those records in 2004 about the Pats beating them 20 - 3 in the playoff game? Isn't that why we have the illegal contact penalty now?

You're wrong.

Actually, he's right. Polian's classic-Colts whining is exactly why the illegal contact rule exists. Must be something in the water in the region. Extra runoff because the reservoir is too close to the groves of sour grapes, I suppose.

Lol, which is it?

 

[bostonfred]

We would have won without our cheating is not an argument I would make. I would argue there was no cheating.

I also believe the Pats would have won without cheating, so if true, why the cheating? Just because it wasn't the difference in the game doesn't make it less important. What else are they doing? It's not like they don't have a checkered past.

Colts get their ### kicked by the Pats in the playoffs, the Colts organization whines to the league.

In other news, the sun rose in the east today.

Good grief what a pathetic bunch of whiney losers.....

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the same Colts organization whine to the league after Peyton set all those records in 2004 about the Pats beating them 20 - 3 in the playoff game? Isn't that why we have the illegal contact penalty now?

You're wrong.

Actually, he's right. Polian's classic-Colts whining is exactly why the illegal contact rule exists. Must be something in the water in the region. Extra runoff because the reservoir is too close to the groves of sour grapes, I suppose.

I wouldn't judge too harshly -- decades of emasculation is bound to raise the estrogen level

could happen to anyone

just kind of ironic this latest bit of histrionics is over shriveled balls

lol

 

[Bad_Mo]

I guess that each team can inflate their balls within the prescribed 12.5 and 13.5 psi.

Some probably go to the high end of that range (Rodgers) and others go to the low end (Brady), depending on weather conditions.

I could easily see a low-end range ball losing air during the game and becoming illegal.

The league needs to have a Director of Ball Inflation/Deflation official to get this stuff right.

 

[shader]

I guess that each team can inflate their balls within the prescribed 12.5 and 13.5 psi.

Some probably go to the high end of that range (Rodgers) and others go to the low end (Brady), depending on weather conditions.

I could easily see a low-end range ball losing air during the game and becoming illegal.

The league needs to have a Director of Ball Inflation/Deflation official to get this stuff right.

I'll take the job. This is serious business. I'll offer my services to be on the sideline at 17 games a year for only 2k per game. I just need 16 more of you to join me, and we'll present our proposal to the league. We cannot allow these psi's to vary, as it's clearly giving teams critical advantages.

 

[shader]

I always thought the Gronk spike was fishy...now I know. He was cheating.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

I guess that each team can inflate their balls within the prescribed 12.5 and 13.5 psi.

Some probably go to the high end of that range (Rodgers) and others go to the low end (Brady), depending on weather conditions.

I could easily see a low-end range ball losing air during the game and becoming illegal.

The league needs to have a Director of Ball Inflation/Deflation official to get this stuff right.

I'll take the job. This is serious business. I'll offer my services to be on the sideline at 17 games a year for only 2k per game. I just need 16 more of you to join me, and we'll present our proposal to the league. We cannot allow these psi's to vary, as it's clearly giving teams critical advantages.

yeah, they're going to let anybody wander in off the street and take that job.

do you have any kind of previous history inspecting balls?

you'd probably need to feel them, squeeze them, maybe rub them, etc --- what's your experience in this area?

 

[fdsannie]

First, I'm not a Pats hater. In fact, I find the practice of rooting against teams a waste of time. Let's get that out of the way...

As most of you know, teams use their own balls during a game. It could be a huge advantage to slightly deflate a ball due to fully inflated balls being harder to throw, especially when it's colder &/or in wet weather. Try throwing a fully inflated NFL football. It's not easy, even with big hands. That's one of the reasons you see ugly passes (even in perfect conditions) from QBs who have been throwing a football nearly their whole lives.

It's dead wrong to assume deflating footballs couldn't make a huge difference in the outcome of a game. It very well might've been the difference between Brady having the kind of game he had or playing more like Luck did. We don't know how much a fully inflated ball would've affected Brady that day. He could've thrown a pick-six that might've changed the whole game. Who knows.

The Pats may very well have won, & likely would have, but we can't assume that. Same for all forms of cheating. This is why the NFL must come down hard on the Pats if it's determined they did indeed deflate footballs. The penalty must be severe enough where teams won't be tempted to try anything underhanded again. Loss of draft picks (including a 1st-rounder), a long suspension, & a fine that truly hurts.

That goes for any team, not just the Pats. This stuff has to stop (if true). I hope it's simply a false accusation.

Even if it is true they are so arrogant that it won't even phase them. The penalty you stated won't have any effect on them.

 

[ratbast]

I guess that each team can inflate their balls within the prescribed 12.5 and 13.5 psi.

Some probably go to the high end of that range (Rodgers) and others go to the low end (Brady), depending on weather conditions.

I could easily see a low-end range ball losing air during the game and becoming illegal.

The league needs to have a Director of Ball Inflation/Deflation official to get this stuff right.

I'll take the job. This is serious business. I'll offer my services to be on the sideline at 17 games a year for only 2k per game. I just need 16 more of you to join me, and we'll present our proposal to the league. We cannot allow these psi's to vary, as it's clearly giving teams critical advantages.

Im in but I need all expenses paid.

 

[Grahamburn]

Over/Under on balls jokes in this thread?

 

[General Tso]

And now it comes out that Akron Rodgers likes his balls overinflated and tries to get away with it whenever he can

I'm hearing reports of this as well. Apparently Rodgers said this during a tv interview in the middle of the season and everyone just laughed at it.This thing is going to get beyond ridiculous...

http://vid809.photobucket.com/albums/zz11/mascho030916/Football%20Central/ScreenCaptureProject295.mp4

Given the level of outrage in this thread I think it's important that we carve this story out into its own thread. It deserves just as much attention. Will be interesting to see if the Packers' playoff win against the Cowboys is vacated. Also will be interesting to see what draft pick they lose, and if Rodgers' MVP Award is nullified or marked with an asterisk.

 

[ratbast]

What if they find Indy deflated the ball?

 

[parrot]

NFL Investigating Whether Patriots Played Game With Properly Inflated Vince Wilfork

http://www.theonion.com/articles/nfl-investigating-whether-patriots-played-game-wit,37805/

 

[Workhorse]

Mike Freeman, voice of reason:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2336017-did-the-patriots-cheat-against-the-colts-deflategate-explained

First: The NFL provides the ball officials. We call them ball boys. They wear the maroon league NFL shirts. Ball gets thrown to them on the sideline, they hold it and keep it in their pouch. Again, to repeat, the NFL provides these guys. They are not team appointed, so for this to be really true, the ball official would have to be compromised by the Patriots. I find that impossible to believe.

I can't stress this enough and need to say it again: In order for this story to be true, the ball official would have had to been bribed, or tricked. I doubt either happened. Highly.

 

[General Tso]

NFL Investigating Whether Patriots Played Game With Properly Inflated Vince Wilfork

http://www.theonion.com/articles/nfl-investigating-whether-patriots-played-game-wit,37805/

I love the guy, but can you just imagine the carnage in that man's bathroom?

 

[Football Jones]

First, I'm not a Pats hater. In fact, I find the practice of rooting against teams a waste of time. Let's get that out of the way...

As most of you know, teams use their own balls during a game. It could be a huge advantage to slightly deflate a ball due to fully inflated balls being harder to throw, especially when it's colder &/or in wet weather. Try throwing a fully inflated NFL football. It's not easy, even with big hands. That's one of the reasons you see ugly passes (even in perfect conditions) from QBs who have been throwing a football nearly their whole lives.

It's dead wrong to assume deflating footballs couldn't make a huge difference in the outcome of a game. It very well might've been the difference between Brady having the kind of game he had or playing more like Luck did. We don't know how much a fully inflated ball would've affected Brady that day. He could've thrown a pick-six that might've changed the whole game. Who knows.

The Pats may very well have won, & likely would have, but we can't assume that. Same for all forms of cheating. This is why the NFL must come down hard on the Pats if it's determined they did indeed deflate footballs. The penalty must be severe enough where teams won't be tempted to try anything underhanded again. Loss of draft picks (including a 1st-rounder), a long suspension, & a fine that truly hurts.

That goes for any team, not just the Pats. This stuff has to stop (if true). I hope it's simply a false accusation.

Even if it is true they are so arrogant that it won't even phase them. The penalty you stated won't have any effect on them.

I didn't give details, but trust me, it would have a huge effect. Brady was surely in on this if it's true (but must be proven). Massive fines for Belichick, Brady, & any others involved as well as a year long suspension. Loss of their 1st, 2nd, & 3rd round picks. Lifetime suspension with a second offense. It has to be severe enough no team/player would risk it again.

Again, I hope this isn't true, but the hammer has to come out if these accusations are proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. This crap has to stop if it indeed went down.

 

[msudaisy26]

First, I'm not a Pats hater. In fact, I find the practice of rooting against teams a waste of time. Let's get that out of the way...

As most of you know, teams use their own balls during a game. It could be a huge advantage to slightly deflate a ball due to fully inflated balls being harder to throw, especially when it's colder &/or in wet weather. Try throwing a fully inflated NFL football. It's not easy, even with big hands. That's one of the reasons you see ugly passes (even in perfect conditions) from QBs who have been throwing a football nearly their whole lives.

It's dead wrong to assume deflating footballs couldn't make a huge difference in the outcome of a game. It very well might've been the difference between Brady having the kind of game he had or playing more like Luck did. We don't know how much a fully inflated ball would've affected Brady that day. He could've thrown a pick-six that might've changed the whole game. Who knows.

The Pats may very well have won, & likely would have, but we can't assume that. Same for all forms of cheating. This is why the NFL must come down hard on the Pats if it's determined they did indeed deflate footballs. The penalty must be severe enough where teams won't be tempted to try anything underhanded again. Loss of draft picks (including a 1st-rounder), a long suspension, & a fine that truly hurts.

That goes for any team, not just the Pats. This stuff has to stop (if true). I hope it's simply a false accusation.

Even if it is true they are so arrogant that it won't even phase them. The penalty you stated won't have any effect on them.

I didn't give details, but trust me, it would have a huge effect. Brady had to be aware if it's true. Massive fines for Belichick, Brady, & any others involved as well as a year long suspension. Loss of their 1st, 2nd, & 3rd round picks. Lifetime suspension with a second offense. It has to be severe enough no team/player would risk it again.

Again, I hope this isn't true, but the hammer has to come out if these accusations are proven beyond a shadow of doubt. This crap has to stop if it indeed went down.

If you think the penalty would even be near that for deflating the footballs in a game that was 45 - 7. Especially when you have another quarterback stating in an interview that his team pushes the limits on the air in the ball as well.

Edit: The fact that you want this big of penalty most likely means you don't like the Patriots and want this to be true.

 

[Football Jones]

First, I'm not a Pats hater. In fact, I find the practice of rooting against teams a waste of time. Let's get that out of the way...

As most of you know, teams use their own balls during a game. It could be a huge advantage to slightly deflate a ball due to fully inflated balls being harder to throw, especially when it's colder &/or in wet weather. Try throwing a fully inflated NFL football. It's not easy, even with big hands. That's one of the reasons you see ugly passes (even in perfect conditions) from QBs who have been throwing a football nearly their whole lives.

It's dead wrong to assume deflating footballs couldn't make a huge difference in the outcome of a game. It very well might've been the difference between Brady having the kind of game he had or playing more like Luck did. We don't know how much a fully inflated ball would've affected Brady that day. He could've thrown a pick-six that might've changed the whole game. Who knows.

The Pats may very well have won, & likely would have, but we can't assume that. Same for all forms of cheating. This is why the NFL must come down hard on the Pats if it's determined they did indeed deflate footballs. The penalty must be severe enough where teams won't be tempted to try anything underhanded again. Loss of draft picks (including a 1st-rounder), a long suspension, & a fine that truly hurts.

That goes for any team, not just the Pats. This stuff has to stop (if true). I hope it's simply a false accusation.

Even if it is true they are so arrogant that it won't even phase them. The penalty you stated won't have any effect on them.

I didn't give details, but trust me, it would have a huge effect. Brady had to be aware if it's true. Massive fines for Belichick, Brady, & any others involved as well as a year long suspension. Loss of their 1st, 2nd, & 3rd round picks. Lifetime suspension with a second offense. It has to be severe enough no team/player would risk it again.

Again, I hope this isn't true, but the hammer has to come out if these accusations are proven beyond a shadow of doubt. This crap has to stop if it indeed went down.

If you think the penalty would even be near that for deflating the footballs in a game that was 45 - 7. Especially when you have another quarterback stating in an interview that his team pushes the limits on the air in the ball as well.

Edit: The fact that you want this big of penalty most likely means you don't like the Patriots and want this to be true.

It doesn't matter what the score is when a game is compromised because we don't know how the game would turn out if it was played fairly. Besides, cheating should be heavily penalized despite the score. I don't know what the NFL would do, but I'm guessing it will be worse than most people think. I think the penalty I listed is appropriate for outright cheating (deflating balls after inspection). Whatever penalty is issued if it's true, a lifetime suspension with a second offense definitely needs to be incorporated.

However, I want to stress I hope this isn't true & it goes away quickly.

 

[[icon]]

I'll just leave this here

 

[Anarchy99]

First, I'm not a Pats hater. In fact, I find the practice of rooting against teams a waste of time. Let's get that out of the way...

As most of you know, teams use their own balls during a game. It could be a huge advantage to slightly deflate a ball due to fully inflated balls being harder to throw, especially when it's colder &/or in wet weather. Try throwing a fully inflated NFL football. It's not easy, even with big hands. That's one of the reasons you see ugly passes (even in perfect conditions) from QBs who have been throwing a football nearly their whole lives.

It's dead wrong to assume deflating footballs couldn't make a huge difference in the outcome of a game. It very well might've been the difference between Brady having the kind of game he had or playing more like Luck did. We don't know how much a fully inflated ball would've affected Brady that day. He could've thrown a pick-six that might've changed the whole game. Who knows.

The Pats may very well have won, & likely would have, but we can't assume that. Same for all forms of cheating. This is why the NFL must come down hard on the Pats if it's determined they did indeed deflate footballs. The penalty must be severe enough where teams won't be tempted to try anything underhanded again. Loss of draft picks (including a 1st-rounder), a long suspension, & a fine that truly hurts.

That goes for any team, not just the Pats. This stuff has to stop (if true). I hope it's simply a false accusation.

Even if it is true they are so arrogant that it won't even phase them. The penalty you stated won't have any effect on them.

I didn't give details, but trust me, it would have a huge effect. Brady was surely in on this if it's true (but must be proven). Massive fines for Belichick, Brady, & any others involved as well as a year long suspension. Loss of their 1st, 2nd, & 3rd round picks. Lifetime suspension with a second offense. It has to be severe enough no team/player would risk it again.

Again, I hope this isn't true, but the hammer has to come out if these accusations are proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. This crap has to stop if it indeed went down.

I believe the NFL's operations manual listed the penalty for under/over inflating a ball was a $25,000 fine.

 

[msudaisy26]

First, I'm not a Pats hater. In fact, I find the practice of rooting against teams a waste of time. Let's get that out of the way...

As most of you know, teams use their own balls during a game. It could be a huge advantage to slightly deflate a ball due to fully inflated balls being harder to throw, especially when it's colder &/or in wet weather. Try throwing a fully inflated NFL football. It's not easy, even with big hands. That's one of the reasons you see ugly passes (even in perfect conditions) from QBs who have been throwing a football nearly their whole lives.

It's dead wrong to assume deflating footballs couldn't make a huge difference in the outcome of a game. It very well might've been the difference between Brady having the kind of game he had or playing more like Luck did. We don't know how much a fully inflated ball would've affected Brady that day. He could've thrown a pick-six that might've changed the whole game. Who knows.

The Pats may very well have won, & likely would have, but we can't assume that. Same for all forms of cheating. This is why the NFL must come down hard on the Pats if it's determined they did indeed deflate footballs. The penalty must be severe enough where teams won't be tempted to try anything underhanded again. Loss of draft picks (including a 1st-rounder), a long suspension, & a fine that truly hurts.

That goes for any team, not just the Pats. This stuff has to stop (if true). I hope it's simply a false accusation.

Even if it is true they are so arrogant that it won't even phase them. The penalty you stated won't have any effect on them.

I didn't give details, but trust me, it would have a huge effect. Brady had to be aware if it's true. Massive fines for Belichick, Brady, & any others involved as well as a year long suspension. Loss of their 1st, 2nd, & 3rd round picks. Lifetime suspension with a second offense. It has to be severe enough no team/player would risk it again.

Again, I hope this isn't true, but the hammer has to come out if these accusations are proven beyond a shadow of doubt. This crap has to stop if it indeed went down.

If you think the penalty would even be near that for deflating the footballs in a game that was 45 - 7. Especially when you have another quarterback stating in an interview that his team pushes the limits on the air in the ball as well.

Edit: The fact that you want this big of penalty most likely means you don't like the Patriots and want this to be true.

It doesn't matter what the score is when a game is compromised because we don't know how the game would turn out if it was played fairly. Besides, cheating should be heavily penalized despite the score. I don't know what the NFL would do, but I'm guessing it will be worse than most people think. I think the penalty I listed is appropriate for outright cheating (deflating balls after inspection). Whatever penalty is issued if it's true, a lifetime suspension with a second offense definitely needs to be incorporated.

However, I want to stress I hope this isn't true & it goes away quickly.

Of all the recent scandals we can claim in the NFL. Spygate, Bountygate, a few tampering issues, and whatever else. When have you ever heard of a penalty as severe as the one you are claiming? It won't happen. Even if there is a photo of Tom Brady handing the ball boy a tire pump, and Bellichek handing him 100 dollar bills to deflate the ball.

 

[devouredbychaos]

We would have won without our cheating is not an argument I would make. I would argue there was no cheating.

I also believe the Pats would have won without cheating, so if true, why the cheating? Just because it wasn't the difference in the game doesn't make it less important. What else are they doing? It's not like they don't have a checkered past.

Colts get their ### kicked by the Pats in the playoffs, the Colts organization whines to the league.

In other news, the sun rose in the east today.

Good grief what a pathetic bunch of whiney losers.....

That's taking the easy way out instead of looking at it objectively. Until this is proven a non-story, it's a story. Given NE past, no one would be surprised to see fire where there is smoke. Face it, your team has cheated in the past and probably is cheating now.

Dat salt! How old are you, 40s or 50s? Get over it already.

 

[Football Jones]

First, I'm not a Pats hater. In fact, I find the practice of rooting against teams a waste of time. Let's get that out of the way...

As most of you know, teams use their own balls during a game. It could be a huge advantage to slightly deflate a ball due to fully inflated balls being harder to throw, especially when it's colder &/or in wet weather. Try throwing a fully inflated NFL football. It's not easy, even with big hands. That's one of the reasons you see ugly passes (even in perfect conditions) from QBs who have been throwing a football nearly their whole lives.

It's dead wrong to assume deflating footballs couldn't make a huge difference in the outcome of a game. It very well might've been the difference between Brady having the kind of game he had or playing more like Luck did. We don't know how much a fully inflated ball would've affected Brady that day. He could've thrown a pick-six that might've changed the whole game. Who knows.

The Pats may very well have won, & likely would have, but we can't assume that. Same for all forms of cheating. This is why the NFL must come down hard on the Pats if it's determined they did indeed deflate footballs. The penalty must be severe enough where teams won't be tempted to try anything underhanded again. Loss of draft picks (including a 1st-rounder), a long suspension, & a fine that truly hurts.

That goes for any team, not just the Pats. This stuff has to stop (if true). I hope it's simply a false accusation.

Even if it is true they are so arrogant that it won't even phase them. The penalty you stated won't have any effect on them.

I didn't give details, but trust me, it would have a huge effect. Brady had to be aware if it's true. Massive fines for Belichick, Brady, & any others involved as well as a year long suspension. Loss of their 1st, 2nd, & 3rd round picks. Lifetime suspension with a second offense. It has to be severe enough no team/player would risk it again.

Again, I hope this isn't true, but the hammer has to come out if these accusations are proven beyond a shadow of doubt. This crap has to stop if it indeed went down.

If you think the penalty would even be near that for deflating the footballs in a game that was 45 - 7. Especially when you have another quarterback stating in an interview that his team pushes the limits on the air in the ball as well.

Edit: The fact that you want this big of penalty most likely means you don't like the Patriots and want this to be true.

It doesn't matter what the score is when a game is compromised because we don't know how the game would turn out if it was played fairly. Besides, cheating should be heavily penalized despite the score. I don't know what the NFL would do, but I'm guessing it will be worse than most people think. I think the penalty I listed is appropriate for outright cheating (deflating balls after inspection). Whatever penalty is issued if it's true, a lifetime suspension with a second offense definitely needs to be incorporated.

However, I want to stress I hope this isn't true & it goes away quickly.

Of all the recent scandals we can claim in the NFL. Spygate, Bountygate, a few tampering issues, and whatever else. When have you ever heard of a penalty as severe as the one you are claiming? It won't happen. Even if there is a photo of Tom Brady handing the ball boy a tire pump, and Bellichek handing him 100 dollar bills to deflate the ball.

The current penalties aren't dissuading teams from cheating (if true). A change is needed. A "tough on crime" stance if you will.

If this allegation is proven, I think we're going to see a degree of penalty we've never seen before.

 

[Road Warriors]

First, I'm not a Pats hater. In fact, I find the practice of rooting against teams a waste of time. Let's get that out of the way...

As most of you know, teams use their own balls during a game. It could be a huge advantage to slightly deflate a ball due to fully inflated balls being harder to throw, especially when it's colder &/or in wet weather. Try throwing a fully inflated NFL football. It's not easy, even with big hands. That's one of the reasons you see ugly passes (even in perfect conditions) from QBs who have been throwing a football nearly their whole lives.

It's dead wrong to assume deflating footballs couldn't make a huge difference in the outcome of a game. It very well might've been the difference between Brady having the kind of game he had or playing more like Luck did. We don't know how much a fully inflated ball would've affected Brady that day. He could've thrown a pick-six that might've changed the whole game. Who knows.

The Pats may very well have won, & likely would have, but we can't assume that. Same for all forms of cheating. This is why the NFL must come down hard on the Pats if it's determined they did indeed deflate footballs. The penalty must be severe enough where teams won't be tempted to try anything underhanded again. Loss of draft picks (including a 1st-rounder), a long suspension, & a fine that truly hurts.

That goes for any team, not just the Pats. This stuff has to stop (if true). I hope it's simply a false accusation.

Even if it is true they are so arrogant that it won't even phase them. The penalty you stated won't have any effect on them.

I didn't give details, but trust me, it would have a huge effect. Brady had to be aware if it's true. Massive fines for Belichick, Brady, & any others involved as well as a year long suspension. Loss of their 1st, 2nd, & 3rd round picks. Lifetime suspension with a second offense. It has to be severe enough no team/player would risk it again.

Again, I hope this isn't true, but the hammer has to come out if these accusations are proven beyond a shadow of doubt. This crap has to stop if it indeed went down.

If you think the penalty would even be near that for deflating the footballs in a game that was 45 - 7. Especially when you have another quarterback stating in an interview that his team pushes the limits on the air in the ball as well.

Edit: The fact that you want this big of penalty most likely means you don't like the Patriots and want this to be true.

It doesn't matter what the score is when a game is compromised because we don't know how the game would turn out if it was played fairly. Besides, cheating should be heavily penalized despite the score. I don't know what the NFL would do, but I'm guessing it will be worse than most people think. I think the penalty I listed is appropriate for outright cheating (deflating balls after inspection). Whatever penalty is issued if it's true, a lifetime suspension with a second offense definitely needs to be incorporated.

However, I want to stress I hope this isn't true & it goes away quickly.

Of all the recent scandals we can claim in the NFL. Spygate, Bountygate, a few tampering issues, and whatever else. When have you ever heard of a penalty as severe as the one you are claiming? It won't happen. Even if there is a photo of Tom Brady handing the ball boy a tire pump, and Bellichek handing him 100 dollar bills to deflate the ball.

The current penalties aren't dissuading teams from cheating (if true). A change is needed. A "tough on crime" stance if you will.

Even If this allegation isn't proven, I think hope we're going to see a degree of penalty we've never seen before.

Fixed it for accuracy

 

[bostonfred]

I believe the NFL's operations manual listed the penalty for under/over inflating a ball was a $25,000 fine.

and a first second and third round pick with suspensions and lifetime bans The rules must say something about lifetime bans for this, right?

 

[msudaisy26]

I believe the NFL's operations manual listed the penalty for under/over inflating a ball was a $25,000 fine.

and a first second and third round pick with suspensions and lifetime bansThe rules must say something about lifetime bans for this, right?

There is an astericks next to the rule. It says only if the Patriots are caught.

 

[Football Jones]

I would think any NFL fan would support a lifetime suspension if a coach or player is caught cheating twice.

Anyway, I really hope this thing isn't true, but if it is, the NFL has to change their penalty system. I want the game to be as pure as possible.