Patriots being investigated after Colts game (3 Viewers)

[KarmaPolice]

As a Pats fan this is severely frustrating. I think every team does things on these lines to get whatever advantage they can get - that is the nature of sports. However, we know that the Pats are known for pushing the envelope, they know they have all eyes on them, and I just wish we could avoid having something like this not attached to a decent win.

 

[RUSF18]

If they did it in this game, they probably did it in other games. Possibly the Ravens game they barely won. The blowout argument is weak. They violated the rules. It's a repeat offense by a team that is known to break the rules. What's more, there's clear intent based upon 11 being underinflated and one being properly inflated for inspection. If the NFL wants to curb cheating, they should make the penalty very steep to deter all 32 teams from skirting the rules.

We don't know what happened but if it turns out that the ref failed to properly inspect all of the game balls than there is zero recourse for the league to punish the Pats.

I'm fully on board with what you said earlier, that they likely knew the officials have gotten lazy and don't check every ball, so they fill one up to the right level and provide that. If the consequence to not filling to the proper pressure is just that the officials will put more air into the ball, you might as well try to get away with something in the event they check beyond that first ball.

Even though I think this was intentional, I also agree with you that - short of proving a conspiracy which will be impossible - no punishment should be handed down if they can verify the officials did not follow the correct procedure. Best way to do that is to sit them down and say "did you check every ball? If the answer is no, tell us now and you'll be ineligible to work postseason games next year, but you get a fresh start the year after. If we find out from someone else that you're lying, you'll be fired and publicly shamed."

 

[Devine Intervention]

If they did it in this game, they probably did it in other games. Possibly the Ravens game they barely won. The blowout argument is weak. They violated the rules. It's a repeat offense by a team that is known to break the rules. What's more, there's clear intent based upon 11 being underinflated and one being properly inflated for inspection. If the NFL wants to curb cheating, they should make the penalty very steep to deter all 32 teams from skirting the rules.

Did they? What are the rules and the consequences? How did they break them? Are the rules broken, in your opinion, if a ball EVER goes outside the bounds of the NFL's psi requirements? How seriously does the NFL take these rules? There's a difference in guidelines and rules.

Read that pft article with an open mind. Take off your hater glasses and think about it.

are you serious Clark?

I think it is pretty clear that it is breaking the rules.

So is holding and pass interference.

and if you hold or PI and get caught does that play count??

And it doesn't matter if the hold or PI actually had any effect on the play. If you did it they call it and the play doesn't stand. So even though this didn't have much of an effect, if they get caught then should the game not stand?

 

[Evilgrin 72]

The NFL has already blown this, as usual, by taking so long to respond or come up with a gameplan. They've got to move quicker and react better in this new world of media.

I don't think so, to me the key date is the NFL has to conclude their investigation and provide a statement (along with any fines if wrong doing is determined by the Pats) prior to the teams landing in AZ for the SuperBowl this weekend. My guess is they will wrap this up and report to the media on Friday.

Total guess here but if the 11 of 12 being under inflated is true, my theory would be that the Pats knew Walt Coleman typically only tests one ball instead of the 12 required. They gave him a fully inflated one to test and had all the others slightly under.

Very possible

If it is 11 of 12, that's the worst possible number for the Pats. If it was all 12, or 2 of 12, you might be able to suspend disbelief. But 11 of 12.... the numbers alone scream impropriety.

I think the proper punishment is for Belichick to have to get a full body wax job on national TV.

 

[shader]

Lots of interesting and valid questions raised by Florio: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/21/many-questions-linger-regarding-deflategate/

That's actually a good article, words I rarely use when describing a Florio article.

It was, lots of good points, like if the balls were in the correct secure location, how much does the temperature affect them and if the Patriots know Brady doesn't like over inflated balls, do they try and submit them at the lowest pressure, thus being under-inflated in the cold during the game. I think of it as the wrestlers/boxers doing whatever they can do to make the weigh-in and then during the actual fight they are back above the threshold.

If the balls were measured by officials and then were under-inflated during the game, I see no issues at all. If they were tampered with after the measurement, then that is a problem.

Also, he has one other good point. The rules specifically have different balls for kicking at specific pressures because they know teams want to set their pressure the way the QBs like (Rodgers likes it over-inflated, Brady doesn't). Unless there was actual tampering after the "weigh-in" this is likely going on at every game by every team to set the balls exactly where the QB prefers.

I'm sure this is true. And if the team goes a little too far one way or the other, the refs throw out the ball.

Bottom line is that the refs touched the ball on every single play. I can't believe most people don't get this simple fact. The refs continued to touch the footballs. It's not as if there is some secret conspiracy going on under the cover of Gillette stadium to fool the world with underinflated balls. The refs touch them and are the sole authority on whether they are legal or not.

 

[GroveDiesel]

The argument that the cheating was so small that it didn't matter is laughable. Obviously the Pats thought it mattered or they wouldn't have been cheating.

It reminds me of a rumored conversation between Kraft and BB after Spygate:

Kraft: On a scale of 1-100, how much of an advantage did this give us?

BB: 1

Kraft: Then you're a fool

Cheating is cheating and cheating for such a small advantage is even more ridiculous.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

If they did it in this game, they probably did it in other games. Possibly the Ravens game they barely won. The blowout argument is weak. They violated the rules. It's a repeat offense by a team that is known to break the rules. What's more, there's clear intent based upon 11 being underinflated and one being properly inflated for inspection. If the NFL wants to curb cheating, they should make the penalty very steep to deter all 32 teams from skirting the rules.

We don't know what happened but if it turns out that the ref failed to properly inspect all of the game balls than there is zero recourse for the league to punish the Pats.

I agree.

 

[JIslander]

If they did it in this game, they probably did it in other games. Possibly the Ravens game they barely won. The blowout argument is weak. They violated the rules. It's a repeat offense by a team that is known to break the rules. What's more, there's clear intent based upon 11 being underinflated and one being properly inflated for inspection. If the NFL wants to curb cheating, they should make the penalty very steep to deter all 32 teams from skirting the rules.

Did they? What are the rules and the consequences? How did they break them? Are the rules broken, in your opinion, if a ball EVER goes outside the bounds of the NFL's psi requirements? How seriously does the NFL take these rules? There's a difference in guidelines and rules.

Read that pft article with an open mind. Take off your hater glasses and think about it.

are you serious Clark?

I think it is pretty clear that it is breaking the rules.

So is holding and pass interference.

It's always interesting to watch Pats fans cycle through the five stages of grief each time the Patriots are involved in a cheating scandal.

1. Denial - Why would the Patriots need to cheat? There is no way Belichick (the greatest coach in the history of the sport) would do this. He doesn't need to.

2. Anger - Haters gonna hate! All of you are just jealous of what the Pats have accomplished. TFB!

3. Bargaining or Deflection - See! Rodgers made a comment about his balls. Others cheat as well so we're not the only ones! If anything it was probably just the lone ball boy on the grassy knoll.

4. Depression - Ugh - we don't need this distraction right now. We need to focus on what's important.

5. Denial once again (as there is never any acceptance) - it's just a league wide conspiracy against the Pats orchestrated by the former Jets employee Goodell!

 

[JaxBill]

I’m waiting for the Seahawks to win the SB by running Marshawn Lynch repeatedly..

Then postgame, Pete Carroll can say “We thought we needed to shorten the game and take the air out of the ball”.

 

[adrenaline]

If you're not cheating you're not trying to win right?

They should make the Patriots play with half deflated footballs in the Super Bowl as punishment.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

If you're not cheating you're not trying to win right?

They should make the Patriots play with half deflated footballs in the Super Bowl as punishment.

Why would that be a punishment? Brady's tiny little girl-hands would be able to grip that even better. They should make the Pats kick through narrower goal posts, like they're doing for EPs in the Pro Bowl. Or they should make Belichick don full KKK regalia and walk around downtown Gary, IN.

 

[shader]

If they did it in this game, they probably did it in other games. Possibly the Ravens game they barely won. The blowout argument is weak. They violated the rules. It's a repeat offense by a team that is known to break the rules. What's more, there's clear intent based upon 11 being underinflated and one being properly inflated for inspection. If the NFL wants to curb cheating, they should make the penalty very steep to deter all 32 teams from skirting the rules.

Did they? What are the rules and the consequences? How did they break them? Are the rules broken, in your opinion, if a ball EVER goes outside the bounds of the NFL's psi requirements? How seriously does the NFL take these rules? There's a difference in guidelines and rules.

Read that pft article with an open mind. Take off your hater glasses and think about it.

are you serious Clark?

I think it is pretty clear that it is breaking the rules.

So is holding and pass interference.

and if you hold or PI and get caught does that play count??

And it doesn't matter if the hold or PI actually had any effect on the play. If you did it they call it and the play doesn't stand. So even though this didn't have much of an effect, if they get caught then should the game not stand?

No it doesn't.

But if a ball is TOO underinflated (or too overinflated), the ball gets thrown out. The refs touch the ball before the play, so they will know.

I guess the only way to know beyond a shadow of a doubt is to have someone test the psi before every play. That will do wonders for the already too long games.

 

[Devine Intervention]

If they did it in this game, they probably did it in other games. Possibly the Ravens game they barely won. The blowout argument is weak. They violated the rules. It's a repeat offense by a team that is known to break the rules. What's more, there's clear intent based upon 11 being underinflated and one being properly inflated for inspection. If the NFL wants to curb cheating, they should make the penalty very steep to deter all 32 teams from skirting the rules.

Did they? What are the rules and the consequences? How did they break them? Are the rules broken, in your opinion, if a ball EVER goes outside the bounds of the NFL's psi requirements? How seriously does the NFL take these rules? There's a difference in guidelines and rules.

Read that pft article with an open mind. Take off your hater glasses and think about it.

are you serious Clark?

I think it is pretty clear that it is breaking the rules.

So is holding and pass interference.

and if you hold or PI and get caught does that play count??

And it doesn't matter if the hold or PI actually had any effect on the play. If you did it they call it and the play doesn't stand. So even though this didn't have much of an effect, if they get caught then should the game not stand?

No it doesn't.

But if a ball is TOO underinflated (or too overinflated), the ball gets thrown out. The refs touch the ball before the play, so they will know.

I guess the only way to know beyond a shadow of a doubt is to have someone test the psi before every play. That will do wonders for the already too long games.

First off the refs do not handle the ball the same way a QB does. They aren't throwing it down field. They are lightly handling it and even more so they are rushing through the play to spot the ball ,etc.

Secondly, do you think that they just got deflated before half? Its 2 psi!! Whether or not the refs noticed, how else can you explain how this can happen??

 

[HellToupee]

Why is the nfl handling the balls like its stoll the 60s. Why not handle all the balls , inflate & break the balls in all under same spec and distribute them on gameday

 

[rjv]

Why are the patriots always involved in controversies like this? Seems a little fishy to me.

Because people are consistently jealous of their success and grasp at any little detail to try and discredit them. It pretty much boils down to "They hate us cause they ain't us"

This

It's an absolute joke that:

1. People think the Pats needed to deflate balls to beat a team they already beat by 22 points earlier this year.

2. That the ref's are so stupid, they couldn't tell the difference between the balls all game long.

Bottom line is it didn't happen, nothing will come of this because, as stated, jealous people need to make excuses.

I understand the silliness of the situation and joelousy of the matter BUT a rule is a rule. Bottom line the Pats broke a rule once again and I think the penalty is going to be severe. Possible BB being suspended all of next year possibly. It's Goodell's job to keep the integrity of the shield here and this hurts the NFL brand. The other owners are probably blowing up Goodells phone as we speak about this, and after the Rice situation and how Goodell screwed that up and almost lost his job, I believe the league will it just over look this and have the pats pay severely.

Payton from the Saints claimed he had no clue about the bounty scandal and he was gone for a season, no way BB didn't know about this.

So sure, say it's a " us against the world" mentality but rules are in place so teams can be on a even playing field and he Pats once again Broke a rule.

 

[Bad_Mo]

I'm speculating, but I think the Patriots have a secret tunnel system on their sideline. Much like a Hogan's Heroes set up, the ball bag is carefully placed in a metal bin, out of view. Tunnel guy then opens secret hatch, in a David Copperfield-like grand illusion, to switch bag of referee inspected balls to the under inflated "special super duper" balls. No cameras catch the old switcharoo and the Patriots go on to crush the Colts by more than 5 TDs as a result.

Kravitz may want to jump on this story!

 

[MattFancy]

So how did the league come up with the PSI limits for how the ball should be inflated? There's so many questions I still have about this.

I just go back to baseball. Can you imagine if MLB let pitchers take a box of balls into their clubhouse and scuff them up and break them in before a game?

 

[Workhorse]

The argument that the cheating was so small that it didn't matter is laughable. Obviously the Pats thought it mattered or they wouldn't have been cheating.

It reminds me of a rumored conversation between Kraft and BB after Spygate:

Kraft: On a scale of 1-100, how much of an advantage did this give us?

BB: 1

Kraft: Then you're a fool

Cheating is cheating and cheating for such a small advantage is even more ridiculous.

This is exactly how I feel. But Kraft actually called Belichick a schmuck, FWIW.

Interesting tweet from Dan Klecko:

Dan Klecko‏@DanKlecko90 58m58 minutes ago

If people really knew what every QB and team does to their Gameballs....Everyone would be under investigation!!

Klecko played alongside 3 starting QBs in his career: Brady, Manning and McNabb.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

http://i.imgur.com/YLAubgQ.jpg

 

[mr roboto]

If they did it in this game, they probably did it in other games. Possibly the Ravens game they barely won. The blowout argument is weak. They violated the rules. It's a repeat offense by a team that is known to break the rules. What's more, there's clear intent based upon 11 being underinflated and one being properly inflated for inspection. If the NFL wants to curb cheating, they should make the penalty very steep to deter all 32 teams from skirting the rules.

We don't know what happened but if it turns out that the ref failed to properly inspect all of the game balls than there is zero recourse for the league to punish the Pats.

I agree.

I don't understand this thinking at all. DW aren't you in the legal field? Is a lack of enforcement an excuse for committing a crime or violating an ordinance?

 

[devouredbychaos]

pats are always shady, slobby, cheaters who probably plant stuff in team lockers or turn on only cold water for visitors, plant spiders and #### roaches in players underwear... Very dirty organization.......... I wouldn't put anything past these slimeballs.

Pretty much

And all the Pats haters are salty over their incredible success. Embrace the stupidity.

 

[Niles Standish]

Should have disqualified them at halftime and embarrassed them in front of the entire world.

As it stands now.... The Pats will get away with yet another shady violation and if they win the Super Bowl, it will all be worth it again and won't stop them from cheating again in the future.

Dude you are seriously over-reacting.

It's PSI, it's not an exact science. Also, if the NFL doesn't test all the balls (although I haven't seen anything conclusive on this) than it's obviously more of a guideline, not a rule.

Aaron Rodgers apparently tries to overinflate the balls. Tom Brady likes them underinflated, apparently, although we are guessing on that.

If the Pats are guilty of anything, it's trying to get balls to a certain level that Brady likes, but not something so drastic that the refs will discover. It's more of a what can you get away with thing, not a cheating thing.

Kind of like every NFL offensive lineman tries to "hold" without the refs seeing. Do what you can do to avoid getting caught by the refs.

If you get caught, the ball gets thrown out. But it's still a football.

Lets put the Aaron Rodgers thing to rest. Were he trying to get away with something he would not advertised it so that the league could closely monitor it. He was having some fun with the fans and the media.

Rodgers told a former QB in Simms in a private conversation (or at least off-air). He wasn't having fun with the media and fans. Simms didn't think it was a big deal and told the story on air. It never became a story because at the time nobody thought it was really a big deal. Not quite the same as you're painting it. I think when Simms played there were no restrictions on the PSI which might be why he didn't think much about telling the story on air.

That being said it has no impact on what the Pats were doing.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I think BB should be forced to duet with Katy Perry at halftime on [insert name of Katy Perry song here] instead of prepping the team for the second half. Whatever Perry wears, he has to wear the same outfit.

Whatever $ the NFL has to pay out in civil suits filed against them by restaurants whose food sales dropped by 95% after their patrons watched this spectacle comes out of Belichick's pocket.

 

[JohnnyU]

pats are always shady, slobby, cheaters who probably plant stuff in team lockers or turn on only cold water for visitors, plant spiders and #### roaches in players underwear... Very dirty organization.......... I wouldn't put anything past these slimeballs.

Pretty much

And all the Pats haters are salty over their incredible success. Embrace the stupidity.

Whatever helps you sleep at night. Face it, your team's success will forever be tarnished for their COLLECTION of incidents of cheating, along with your slimy coach.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I get that it has little chance of effecting the game and is kinda silly....

It's just the freaking Balls Bellichik has to pull off stuff like this that most coaches would never even dream of....

Such a slimy SOB......

At this point you pretty much know he's cheating in some way, it's every one else's job just to figure out what it is.

Not true.

 

[Bad_Mo]

I think BB should be forced to duet with Katy Perry at halftime on [insert name of Katy Perry song here] instead of prepping the team for the second half. Whatever Perry wears, he has to wear the same outfit.

Whatever $ the NFL has to pay out in civil suits filed against them by restaurants whose food sales dropped by 95% after their patrons watched this spectacle comes out of Belichick's pocket.

Whoa...first the body wax suggestion and now this? I'm not sure if BB was even involved, but I surely don't want to see him get waxed or wear an erotic, skimpy outfit. Ever.

 

[ROCKET]

I'm not going to read this whole thread. I have only one question regarding this whole thing: How many times has the NFL checked the PSI of game balls during or after a game? Which teams were involved, why were they checked,when and what were the results? If this is the only time anyone has ever challenged the ball inflation or lets say it's been done a handful of times in the last 50 years then I think I know everything I need to know.

I think George Brett would love what's going on as this is on the same level as the pine tar incident. Reminds me of hockey players with too much curve on their sticks. If the NFL was so concerned about the offenses balls being at perfect inflation then why didn't they just do the same thing they did with the kicking balls and take them out of the package without being altered in any way.

What' s next ?, complaints about balls that are scuffed too much or alterations to players gloves that give them more grip. Oh and don't forget about stickem. I'm sure the Pats are the only team that has ever submitted a ball that wasn't in the official PSI range and gotten it by the refs to be played with.

Lets just boot them from the SB and take all their 2015 draft picks away along with a 10 million? fine. I'll be patiently waiting for all the historical data from the league regarding the testing of balls during and after games over the last 50 years that proves this is such an outlier.

Oh and how ironic that they play vs. a coach who's team got caught doing the same thing at USC, I am sure Pete never knew anything and BB did the inflating himself. Happy Birthday Pats haters now you have another gem to throw out there for eternity. I can hardly wait for the next scandal.

 

[thatguythere]

Don't really have an opinion on this but, I was listening the Raw Dog Comedy yesterday and the Ron and Fez show were tweeting #tombradyhassaggyballs. There were some good ones.

He tucks them into his Uggs after the game....#tombradyhassaggyballs

 

[hagmania]

I think it's not right to cheat, admit that probably a lot of teams do it, but once you're caught, it's on you. Irrational defense (like that seen in this thread) is really irritating.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

This reminds me of the George Brett pine tar incident.

So listening to Jerry Austin (long time, maybe 20+ year ref) on Dan Patrick he says that the footballs were never, ever checked in all his years of being a ref.

So it sounds like this is the kind of thing that could have been going on for a while, and nobody ever dd anything about it or asked for a check.

Just like George Brett, they're going to make an example out of him.

The Pats and BB desrve to be where they are and Roger Goodell will continue to be a monkey who simply jumps and dances whenever he thinks he hears the tune of bad pr playing.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

If they did it in this game, they probably did it in other games. Possibly the Ravens game they barely won. The blowout argument is weak. They violated the rules. It's a repeat offense by a team that is known to break the rules. What's more, there's clear intent based upon 11 being underinflated and one being properly inflated for inspection. If the NFL wants to curb cheating, they should make the penalty very steep to deter all 32 teams from skirting the rules.

We don't know what happened but if it turns out that the ref failed to properly inspect all of the game balls than there is zero recourse for the league to punish the Pats.

I agree.

I don't understand this thinking at all. DW aren't you in the legal field? Is a lack of enforcement an excuse for committing a crime or violating an ordinance?

I need a reliable baseline of information, a starting point, to be able to determine what happened.

 

[Bills_Fan11]

NE fans' input is slightly less surprising than Dems likeing or Repubs hating the Union Speech..

If nothing wrong was found with the balls they'd be gloating like crazy. But since there was it's conveniently immaterial.

And "Zomg we didn't need it" is weak and shortsighted. First time offenders usually aren't caught; good bet they've done it before (and who knows what else they do).

 

[JIslander]

It's funny --all those years...all those little receivers with little hands --Woodhead, Welker, Amendola, Edelman, Vereen ... it all makes sense now.

 

[MG345]

Oh and how ironic that they play vs. a coach who's team got caught doing the same thing at USC, I am sure Pete never knew anything and BB did the inflating himself. Happy Birthday Pats haters now you have another gem to throw out there for eternity. I can hardly wait for the next scandal.

Except that was Lane Kiffen and not Pete Carroll: http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/08/usc-student-manager-fired-for-deflating-game-balls-against-oregon/

 

[jonessed]

If they did it in this game, they probably did it in other games. Possibly the Ravens game they barely won. The blowout argument is weak. They violated the rules. It's a repeat offense by a team that is known to break the rules. What's more, there's clear intent based upon 11 being underinflated and one being properly inflated for inspection. If the NFL wants to curb cheating, they should make the penalty very steep to deter all 32 teams from skirting the rules.

We don't know what happened but if it turns out that the ref failed to properly inspect all of the game balls than there is zero recourse for the league to punish the Pats.

I agree.

I don't understand this thinking at all. DW aren't you in the legal field? Is a lack of enforcement an excuse for committing a crime or violating an ordinance?

The NFL should accept cheating as long as a team can successfully trick the initial process of checks and balances. Let's completely throw out the fact that they contrived a means to systematically cheat or that they were caught during the game they cheated.You can't make this #### up

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I think BB should be forced to duet with Katy Perry at halftime on [insert name of Katy Perry song here] instead of prepping the team for the second half. Whatever Perry wears, he has to wear the same outfit.

Whatever $ the NFL has to pay out in civil suits filed against them by restaurants whose food sales dropped by 95% after their patrons watched this spectacle comes out of Belichick's pocket.

Whoa...first the body wax suggestion and now this? I'm not sure if BB was even involved, but I surely don't want to see him get waxed or wear an erotic, skimpy outfit. Ever.

Hoodie and nothing else? OK, hoodie. No pants or underwear. He has a bottle of hot sauce lodged between his buttcheeks and he has to season 6 tacos without spilling any.

 

[ROCKET]

If it is proven that the NFL never tests balls for PSI during or after games and that they don't even test balls pregame very often this whole thing has no legs. It sounds like the NFL was operating with the old boy method of officials giving the ball the Charmin squeeze test and never having them use a gauge to test for the correct PSI.

When Jerry Austin who reffed for decades says he never used a guage to test balls prior to a game it makes a mockery out of the whole thing. I have already heard the Ravens had concerns over the balls being under-inflated the week before and told the Colts about it. I'm sure the Colts had this planned going in. I guarantee you there balls were inflated to exact psi going in so they would pass the test later on.

The NFL with it's billions of dollars is run by idiots. With all the technology we have they don't even bother checking balls before or after every game and allow teams to submit their own? If this is such an issue about an even playing field then why don't they have any records for over seeing it on a game by game basis? That's right, there is no oversight and only gets looked into when some team makes a random complaint. What a joke.

 

[Workhorse]

As a Patriots fan, I want to see Belichick punished harshly if this is true, because maybe it will cure him of the seemingly uncontrollable compulsion to cut corners at every turn in order to gain even the slightest, imperceptible advantage. He's a great coach who doesn't need to do this nonsense to win football games. Suspending him might be the best therapy.

 

[ROCKET]

Oh and how ironic that they play vs. a coach who's team got caught doing the same thing at USC, I am sure Pete never knew anything and BB did the inflating himself. Happy Birthday Pats haters now you have another gem to throw out there for eternity. I can hardly wait for the next scandal.

Except that was Lane Kiffen and not Pete Carroll: http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/08/usc-student-manager-fired-for-deflating-game-balls-against-oregon/

OK, I was misinformed. Pete was just the guy who had the National Titles stripped form the Reggie Bush fiasco, got it.

 

[moleculo]

This is a big deal. The timing couldn't be worse. The biggest microscope in sports is the weeks leading up to the superbowl, and for this to break now means it can't be swept under the rug. The NFL is interested in international expansion, they have to be very careful with the optics.

Here's how this will play out with the international press:

• one of the teams in the Superbowl got caught cheating.
• that team has gotten caught cheating before.
• If they cheat with equipment rules, and spying on other teams, how else have they been cheating?
• What kind of competitive advantage have they gained by doing all of this?
• Does the NFL have any integrity at all?

I don't think they can sweep this under the rug. Belichick is now a repeat offender, I don't think Godell will have a choice but to throw the book at him. This incident has brought the integrity of the entire league under question at a time when the whole world will be watching.

Here are the facts as I see them:

• 11 of 12 balls being under inflated rules out a leak or faulty equipment.
• I just ran some numbers w/ ideal gas law. to get from 12.5 PSI to 10.5 PSI takes a drop in temperature of 87 degrees F, so we rule out natural depressurization.
• Underinflated balls can gain a team a non-trivial competitive advantage - goes to motive.
• There are rules, spelled out in black and white, as to regulation. this isn't a wishy-washy spirit of the law here. The Patriots were caught red handed using illegal equipment.
• The Patriots are repeat offenders.
• The last coach involved with shenanigans was suspended for a year.

The above, coupled with the intense media focus during superbowl week, will leave Godell no choice but to suspend Belichick and possibly his staff for at least a year, plus dock draft picks. High ones.

I'm not a Patriot hater, even if I strongly dislike some of their fans. I respect the hell out of Bill Belichick and that whole organization. However, I believe that Belichick has fostered an organizational culture that encourages pushing the boundaries of legality.

 

[stbugs]

I'm not going to read this whole thread. I have only one question regarding this whole thing: How many times has the NFL checked the PSI of game balls during or after a game? Which teams were involved, why were they checked,when and what were the results? If this is the only time anyone has ever challenged the ball inflation or lets say it's been done a handful of times in the last 50 years then I think I know everything I need to know.

I think George Brett would love what's going on as this is on the same level as the pine tar incident. Reminds me of hockey players with too much curve on their sticks. If the NFL was so concerned about the offenses balls being at perfect inflation then why didn't they just do the same thing they did with the kicking balls and take them out of the package without being altered in any way.

What' s next ?, complaints about balls that are scuffed too much or alterations to players gloves that give them more grip. Oh and don't forget about stickem. I'm sure the Pats are the only team that has ever submitted a ball that wasn't in the official PSI range and gotten it by the refs to be played with.

Lets just boot them from the SB and take all their 2015 draft picks away along with a 10 million? fine. I'll be patiently waiting for all the historical data from the league regarding the testing of balls during and after games over the last 50 years that proves this is such an outlier.

Oh and how ironic that they play vs. a coach who's team got caught doing the same thing at USC, I am sure Pete never knew anything and BB did the inflating himself. Happy Birthday Pats haters now you have another gem to throw out there for eternity. I can hardly wait for the next scandal.

Agree 100% with the bolded. The NFL actually has kicking balls that are different than the offense balls and there is a range, they know that teams want to vary the pressure based on preference. If it was a huge deal, all balls would be kicking balls and teams would have no ability to mess with them.

The key to this fiasco in my mind is whether or not they tampered with the balls after they were measured/approved for the game. If not, then there is no issue in my mind. If they did, then that is a big problem.

 

[MG345]

Oh and how ironic that they play vs. a coach who's team got caught doing the same thing at USC, I am sure Pete never knew anything and BB did the inflating himself. Happy Birthday Pats haters now you have another gem to throw out there for eternity. I can hardly wait for the next scandal.

Except that was Lane Kiffen and not Pete Carroll: http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/08/usc-student-manager-fired-for-deflating-game-balls-against-oregon/

OK, I was misinformed. Pete was just the guy who had the National Titles stripped form the Reggie Bush fiasco, got it.

Funny. Are you purposefully trying to deflect attention from the team that was caught red handed, or are you just always this foolish?

 

[pizzatyme]

Can you imagine MLB allowing teams to provide their own set of balls for the World Series?

 

[Workhorse]

I just ran some numbers w/ ideal gas law. to get from 12.5 PSI to 10.5 PSI takes a drop in temperature of 87 degrees F, so we rule out natural depressurization.

I've seen this posted in a few places and everyone makes the same mistakes: You have to convert temp to Kelvin and people are measuring the pump pressure, not the absolute pressure. Taken from another board:

Your math is off, remember that you're using the actual pressure for these calculations (a 12.5 PSI ball has 27.2 PSI of total pressure in it). If you use the nominal PSI, you get results saying that it only loses about 0.4 PSI from the temperature change; that's wrong. It's about 1.6 PSI from a 70F to 40F, or just over 1 PSI lost from 70F to 50F.

If they were 12.5 to begin with, temperature difference could take them to about 10.9 PSI (going from 70F to 40F). Still not enough to explain the whole difference, but perhaps approaching the point where repeated measurements letting air out, game abuse, leaking over time, and precision of the meter could explain the difference.

 

[Warhogs]

I have been hearing a lot on the topic all week but haven't commented. I can't believe how overblown this is. Call it cheating if you like. I'm sure other teams alter the ball as well. Shame on the NFL for checking the balls an hour before kickoff and then turning them over to the teams to do what they like. I am sure any team is going to look at anything they can to try to get an advantage. It just simply means that now that this is identified the league will need to look at something to keep control of the game balls after they are checked. I'm not defending the Patriots as i'm not a fan of them. I'm just surprised this has gotten so much attention but I suppose you need something to talk about with the big lag before the superbowl.

 

[parrot]

I just ran some numbers w/ ideal gas law. to get from 12.5 PSI to 10.5 PSI takes a drop in temperature of 87 degrees F, so we rule out natural depressurization.

I've seen this posted in a few places and everyone makes the same mistakes: You have to convert temp to Kelvin and people are measuring the pump pressure, not the absolute pressure. Taken from another board:

Your math is off, remember that you're using the actual pressure for these calculations (a 12.5 PSI ball has 27.2 PSI of total pressure in it). If you use the nominal PSI, you get results saying that it only loses about 0.4 PSI from the temperature change; that's wrong. It's about 1.6 PSI from a 70F to 40F, or just over 1 PSI lost from 70F to 50F.

If they were 12.5 to begin with, temperature difference could take them to about 10.9 PSI (going from 70F to 40F). Still not enough to explain the whole difference, but perhaps approaching the point where repeated measurements letting air out, game abuse, leaking over time, and precision of the meter could explain the difference.

Now, purely speculative, but if a ball dropped from 12 point something to 10 point something, might not a guy like Morontenson possibly report a 2lb drop?

Also, will a leather NFL football expand in rainy conditions?

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

what was that other nonsense they dropped on us right before the superbowl -- was it the phoney practice taping thing?

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Can you imagine MLB allowing teams to provide their own set of balls for the World Series?

Give me a second.

Yes

 

[Shutout]

I just ran some numbers w/ ideal gas law. to get from 12.5 PSI to 10.5 PSI takes a drop in temperature of 87 degrees F, so we rule out natural depressurization.

I've seen this posted in a few places and everyone makes the same mistakes: You have to convert temp to Kelvin and people are measuring the pump pressure, not the absolute pressure. Taken from another board:

Your math is off, remember that you're using the actual pressure for these calculations (a 12.5 PSI ball has 27.2 PSI of total pressure in it). If you use the nominal PSI, you get results saying that it only loses about 0.4 PSI from the temperature change; that's wrong. It's about 1.6 PSI from a 70F to 40F, or just over 1 PSI lost from 70F to 50F.

If they were 12.5 to begin with, temperature difference could take them to about 10.9 PSI (going from 70F to 40F). Still not enough to explain the whole difference, but perhaps approaching the point where repeated measurements letting air out, game abuse, leaking over time, and precision of the meter could explain the difference.

If we ever have a zombie apocalypse, I'm headed straight for wherever the fantasy football guys have established their safe zone. Never ceases to amaze me how smart the community is, as a whole. The things some of you guys know...wow.

 

[Shutout]

I just ran some numbers w/ ideal gas law. to get from 12.5 PSI to 10.5 PSI takes a drop in temperature of 87 degrees F, so we rule out natural depressurization.

I've seen this posted in a few places and everyone makes the same mistakes: You have to convert temp to Kelvin and people are measuring the pump pressure, not the absolute pressure. Taken from another board:

Your math is off, remember that you're using the actual pressure for these calculations (a 12.5 PSI ball has 27.2 PSI of total pressure in it). If you use the nominal PSI, you get results saying that it only loses about 0.4 PSI from the temperature change; that's wrong. It's about 1.6 PSI from a 70F to 40F, or just over 1 PSI lost from 70F to 50F.

If they were 12.5 to begin with, temperature difference could take them to about 10.9 PSI (going from 70F to 40F). Still not enough to explain the whole difference, but perhaps approaching the point where repeated measurements letting air out, game abuse, leaking over time, and precision of the meter could explain the difference.

Now, purely speculative, but if a ball dropped from 12 point something to 10 point something, might not a guy like Morontenson possibly report a 2lb drop?

Also, will a leather NFL football expand in rainy conditions?

Where is Soulfly III? This is starting to sound like the Gordon case. "If we are just standing by the ball, and the temp has dropped it from 12.5 to 10.9 AND THEN we touch it, does the heat from our body decrease it another .1? Could it be that the Pats are just innocent bystanders in all this because Andrew Luck's hands are abnormally warm? We should test for that."