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Patriots being investigated after Colts game (4 Viewers)

Percent of NFL teams actively trying to steal play sheets?

  • 0%

    Votes: 90 33.0%
  • 25%

    Votes: 91 33.3%
  • 50%

    Votes: 19 7.0%
  • 75%

    Votes: 16 5.9%
  • 100%

    Votes: 57 20.9%

  • Total voters
    273
I'm not sure how many people are watching ESPN today, but they mentioned there that the Colts first noticed the deflated balls in their regular season matchup with NE this year, which is why they asked to have the balls checked during the playoff game (at which point it was found that 11 of the 12 were under-inflated).

So people keep talking about how it had no impact on the outcome of this game, which is true, but it certainly seems like NE has been doing this beyond just this one game. What about last week's game which came down to the last minute? Could it have had an affect on that game?

 
Being a dad had given me a lot of perspective on things like this. For example, before my kid started having tantrums over silly things i never thought crying was funny.
Being a dad should give you the perspective that cheating is cheating and if they are found to have broken the rules that it is wrong of them and winning does not out weigh cheating.
You're talking to a fan of the team that brought out a snowplow in the middle of a timeout so their kicker could get a clean kick... and now has an exhibit in their hall of fame about it. Look it up, though - it wasn't against the rules. If the patriots want to angle shoot - like pumping a ball with hot air before the weigh in - then I say go for it. There's no rule about the air temperature. There are clear rules about the weight at weigh in and rules defining what should be done if a deflated ball is found mid game. It was, and they took the ball out. Sounds like the process worked to me.
The rules in question are about pressure, not weight. PSI (pounds per square inch) is a unit of pressure.

 
So all you Patriots haters who are claiming "OMGZ THEY CHEATED SUSPEND BELICHICK" are basing your accusations off of what Mortenson said last night? Lol. I find that quite hilarious. You do realize he's the only one who has said anything, right? And you know that he's been wrong in the past, right?
well, in fairness the Boston Globe said it seperately of Mort received the same information as him from league sources.

 
I'm not sure how many people are watching ESPN today, but they mentioned there that the Colts first noticed the deflated balls in their regular season matchup with NE this year, which is why they asked to have the balls checked during the playoff game (at which point it was found that 11 of the 12 were under-inflated).

So people keep talking about how it had no impact on the outcome of this game, which is true, but it certainly seems like NE has been doing this beyond just this one game. What about last week's game which came down to the last minute? Could it have had an affect on that game?
The Colts/Pats first game was in Indy, so the whole pressure loss due to lower temperature bit doesn't fly there. This is certainly smoke.

 
I'm not sure how many people are watching ESPN today, but they mentioned there that the Colts first noticed the deflated balls in their regular season matchup with NE this year, which is why they asked to have the balls checked during the playoff game (at which point it was found that 11 of the 12 were under-inflated).

So people keep talking about how it had no impact on the outcome of this game, which is true, but it certainly seems like NE has been doing this beyond just this one game. What about last week's game which came down to the last minute? Could it have had an affect on that game?
The Colts/Pats first game was in Indy, so the whole pressure loss due to lower temperature bit doesn't fly there. This is certainly smoke.
The pressure loss thing I thought was already debunked. Maybe that was just a "today on ESPN" thing too, but at halftime of the playoff game they tested all 12 of the NE balls and all 12 of the Colts' balls. 11 of the NE balls were under-inflated while 0 of the Colts' balls were.

 
I'm not sure how many people are watching ESPN today, but they mentioned there that the Colts first noticed the deflated balls in their regular season matchup with NE this year, which is why they asked to have the balls checked during the playoff game (at which point it was found that 11 of the 12 were under-inflated).

So people keep talking about how it had no impact on the outcome of this game, which is true, but it certainly seems like NE has been doing this beyond just this one game. What about last week's game which came down to the last minute? Could it have had an affect on that game?
The Colts/Pats first game was in Indy, so the whole pressure loss due to lower temperature bit doesn't fly there. This is certainly smoke.
The pressure loss thing I thought was already debunked. Maybe that was just a "today on ESPN" thing too, but at halftime of the playoff game they tested all 12 of the NE balls and all 12 of the Colts' balls. 11 of the NE balls were under-inflated while 0 of the Colts' balls were.
I'm guessing the Patriots did mess with the balls but if people want to push the narrative of the temp, then the Colts balls not being under inflated doesn't discount that theory. As stated before in the thread there is a limit of like 12.5-13.5 for the balls or something. If the Patriots put their balls at the 12.5 lower end and the Colts prefer say 13.5 higher end then it's not ridiculous to think the temperature could cause the Patriot's inflation to fall below the limit while the Colts still remained intact.

Again I think the Patriots did probably mess with them but the Colts being within the range doesn't necessarily discard any potential theory.

 
TL;DR

Pats fans: "You're all haters."

Everyone else: "It would be great if Boston fell into the Atlantic."

 
I'm not sure how many people are watching ESPN today, but they mentioned there that the Colts first noticed the deflated balls in their regular season matchup with NE this year, which is why they asked to have the balls checked during the playoff game (at which point it was found that 11 of the 12 were under-inflated).

So people keep talking about how it had no impact on the outcome of this game, which is true, but it certainly seems like NE has been doing this beyond just this one game. What about last week's game which came down to the last minute? Could it have had an affect on that game?
The Colts/Pats first game was in Indy, so the whole pressure loss due to lower temperature bit doesn't fly there. This is certainly smoke.
The pressure loss thing I thought was already debunked. Maybe that was just a "today on ESPN" thing too, but at halftime of the playoff game they tested all 12 of the NE balls and all 12 of the Colts' balls. 11 of the NE balls were under-inflated while 0 of the Colts' balls were.
I'm guessing the Patriots did mess with the balls but if people want to push the narrative of the temp, then the Colts balls not being under inflated doesn't discount that theory. As stated before in the thread there is a limit of like 12.5-13.5 for the balls or something. If the Patriots put their balls at the 12.5 lower end and the Colts prefer say 13.5 higher end then it's not ridiculous to think the temperature could cause the Patriot's inflation to fall below the limit while the Colts still remained intact.

Again I think the Patriots did probably mess with them but the Colts being within the range doesn't necessarily discard any potential theory.
The NE balls were 2psi under the lower limit. If that were a result of the weather then the indy balls would have been under too even if they were initially inflated to the max amount.
 
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Peter King:

1. I think it’s fair to assume—though it hasn’t been confirmed by the league—that the Patriots’ footballs that were tested at halftime Sunday had less air, and the Colts’ football were all found to be legal. Connect the dots. Chris Mortensen reported Tuesday that 11 of 12 Patriots football had approximately two pounds less pressure per square inch than the mandated 12.5 psi required by the NFL. In other words, the Patriots’ footballs were softer than allowed by rule. The obvious deduction is that all the balls, for both teams, were measured at halftime, and that New England’s footballs were dound to be softer—or else the league would be investigating Indianapolis as well, and the league is clearly not doing that. This is important because it would render moot the theory going around that the cold weather could have caused the air pressure in the balls to decrease. It was the same weather on both sidelines.

2. There’s a difference that all these ex-quarterbacks are not taking into account when they say, “Every team doctors the footballs.” Former quarterback Matt Leinart tweeted said something Wednesday that many quarterbacks were saying in different ways: “Every team tampers with the football. Ask any QB in the league, this is ridiculous!!”

Every quarterback can tamper with the 12 footballs assigned to his team in the days before the game. In the NFL, each team is allowed weekly to break in 12 new footballs as it sees fit, according to the quarterback’s preference. That includes taking the shine and slipperiness off the new balls, and compressing them and working them in to soften the leather. By rule, those 12 footballs are then delivered to the officiating crew on site 2 hours and 15 minutes before the game begins.

At that point the head linesman inspects each football with one or more members of his crew. If need be, the officials will clean off the balls. Then they will insert a needle into the balls, one by one, to ensure the balls are inflated to the proper pressure: between 12.5 and 13.5 psi. If a ball is underinflated, an electric pump is used to fill it to the requisite level. Then all 12 balls are marked by silver Sharpie with a referee’s personal preference of a mark—Gene Steratore’s crew uses the letter “L,” for Steratore’s fiancée, Lisa—and put back into the bag, and zipped. The bags are handed to the ballboys minutes before the opening kickoff. If it’s raining, or bad weather is on the way, the officials might tell the ballboys to change the ball on every play, whether it hits the ground on the previous play or not.

To sum up: Yes, the quarterback or his equipment staff can break in the balls in whatever way they want a couple of days before the game. But no, the quarterback cannot dictate the level of air pressure in the ball. Or at least he cannot do it legally. And the low air pressure in the Patriots’ footballs is why this is a story.

3. If Belichick is found to be culpable, I think Goodell will come down hard on him. It’s early. We don’t yet know where the trail on this investigation will lead. So this is presuming a lot. But in reporting a Goodell story four years ago, this anecdote stuck out to me. You’ll recall that after the 2007 Spygate investion into the Patriots’ videotaping of opposing coaches’ signals that Goodell fined Belichick $500,000 and the franchise an additional $250,000, and he docked New England a first-round draft pick. As part of the discipline, Belichick would have to make a verbal apology in front of the press that week. Instead, the coach issued a printed statement and refused to answer any questions on the topic. “I was given assurances that [belichick] would tell his side of the story,” Goodell said at the time. “He went out and stonewalled the press. I feel like I was deceived.”
 
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I've never in my life seen a dumber "controversy" than this one. Anyone who believes that [somehow the Patriots stealing signals via videotaping gives them an advantage, or somehow the Patriots being able to keep booth to helmet communication to the QB past the time allowed within NFL guidelines giving them an advantage] Has lost their minds. But yet, many will believe that because they [JUSTIFIABLY] hate the Pats.
Ahhhhh... Much better
very confusing edit. work on that.
Ok

I will sum up... Pats "cheat" or "appear to illegally push the envelope" ALOT

Pats fan responses: "everyone does it but because others are jealous of OUR success they wanna crucify the super amazingly wonderfully sexy Tom Belichicks... Keep crying haters we are ROTFLBWAJBATTSGUTI"

>>>Rolling on the floor laughing because we are just better all the time so get used to it<<<

Other teams fan responses: "it's the blatant disregard for the rules and the nonchalant arrogance of Pats fans, Tom, and Belichick that makes me want to puke when I see them being lauded across the league as the pinnacle franchise to which all other franchises should aspire... AITHLSATOAHC"

>>>also I think hoodies look stupid and trashy on a head coach<<<

 
The Patriots used 12 backup footballs for the second half of Sundays AFC championship game after issues were found with most of the original 12 balls used by the offense in the first half, an organizational source told WEEIs Joe Zarbano.

Team spokesman Stacey James confirmed to WEEI.com that the team had 24 footballs available, 12 of which were tested by the officials pregame and another dozen stored inside as backups.

After the officials found that the majority of the balls used in the first half were below the acceptable PSI as mandated by the NFL, the backup balls were brought in. According to the source, the backup balls were tested and found to be at the correct levels, and subsequently put into play just barely in time, as the second half already had started by the time the testing was completed. This is why the officials stopped play and swapped out the kicking ball on the first play from scrimmage of the second half.

ESPNs Chris Mortensen reported late Tuesday night that 11 of the 12 game balls were underinflated. WEEI.coms source recalled either 10 or 11 balls being a problem

 
zilladog said:
So Eli admits to doctoring balls.

Rogers admits to doctoring balls.

Brad Johnson admits to BRIBING people in a superbowl to secretly doctor balls.

But....It's a Patriots issue............rrrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
]Eli and Aaron do it within the rules and are not ashamed of their actions, exhibiting no moral guilt. Further, by their forthrightness in the matter they invite the league to monitor their equipment scrupulously.

Brady, now he dismisses the matter saying discussion of the matter itself is laughable. He deflects, the actions of a guilty mind trying to redirect attention.

 
zilladog said:
So Eli admits to doctoring balls.

Rogers admits to doctoring balls.

Brad Johnson admits to BRIBING people in a superbowl to secretly doctor balls.

But....It's a Patriots issue............rrrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
]Eli and Aaron do it within the rules and are not ashamed of their actions, exhibiting no moral guilt. Further, by their forthrightness in the matter they invite the league to monitor their equipment scrupulously.

Brady, now he dismisses the matter saying discussion of the matter itself is laughable. He deflects, the actions of a guilty mind trying to redirect attention.
I thought Rodgers said he went over the limit to see if he would be caught? So because they show no remorse means they aren't guilty?

 
Cam someone tell me why BOTH pre and post game inspections of the balls are not standard operating procedure? If the NFL was so worried about the balls being inflated properly during the game then why wouldn't they check them after the games too? None of this would have ever been an issue had they been diligent about the issue from the beginning. The NFL with all their billions have some real idiots running the show.

 
I'm not sure how many people are watching ESPN today, but they mentioned there that the Colts first noticed the deflated balls in their regular season matchup with NE this year, which is why they asked to have the balls checked during the playoff game (at which point it was found that 11 of the 12 were under-inflated).

So people keep talking about how it had no impact on the outcome of this game, which is true, but it certainly seems like NE has been doing this beyond just this one game. What about last week's game which came down to the last minute? Could it have had an affect on that game?
The Colts/Pats first game was in Indy, so the whole pressure loss due to lower temperature bit doesn't fly there. This is certainly smoke.
The pressure loss thing I thought was already debunked. Maybe that was just a "today on ESPN" thing too, but at halftime of the playoff game they tested all 12 of the NE balls and all 12 of the Colts' balls. 11 of the NE balls were under-inflated while 0 of the Colts' balls were.
I'm guessing the Patriots did mess with the balls but if people want to push the narrative of the temp, then the Colts balls not being under inflated doesn't discount that theory. As stated before in the thread there is a limit of like 12.5-13.5 for the balls or something. If the Patriots put their balls at the 12.5 lower end and the Colts prefer say 13.5 higher end then it's not ridiculous to think the temperature could cause the Patriot's inflation to fall below the limit while the Colts still remained intact.

Again I think the Patriots did probably mess with them but the Colts being within the range doesn't necessarily discard any potential theory.
The NE balls were 2psi under the lower limit. If that were a result of the weather then the indy balls would have been under too even if they were initially inflated to the max amount.
I'm taking devils advocate stance here. Assume Patriots ball actual initial pressure was 12.3, but rounded up to 12.5 and was ok. Assume Colts exact initial pressure was exactly 13.5 psi. both balls are measured at 75 dF. Everything ok so far?

During the game, the temp drops to 45 dF, and the balls are brought in to test. The Patriot balls are checked first (@ 45 dF), and per the ideal gas law, the pressure should now be 10.8 dF - a change of 1.51 psi, which rounds up to 2. Depending on the precision of the gauge, one might read this as a 12.5psi football deflating to 10.5 psi.

The Colts balls are then checked as a control sample. but now, because they have warmed up, they are at 55 dF. The theoretical air pressure would be 12.4 psi, which rounds up to 12.5 and be within spec.

Again, devils advocate, and this is why we need more details on how the half-time measurement was taken.

 
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Peter King:

1. I think it’s fair to assume—though it hasn’t been confirmed by the league—that the Patriots’ footballs that were tested at halftime Sunday had less air, and the Colts’ football were all found to be legal. Connect the dots. Chris Mortensen reported Tuesday that 11 of 12 Patriots football had approximately two pounds less pressure per square inch than the mandated 12.5 psi required by the NFL. In other words, the Patriots’ footballs were softer than allowed by rule. The obvious deduction is that all the balls, for both teams, were measured at halftime, and that New England’s footballs were dound to be softer—or else the league would be investigating Indianapolis as well, and the league is clearly not doing that. This is important because it would render moot the theory going around that the cold weather could have caused the air pressure in the balls to decrease. It was the same weather on both sidelines.

2. There’s a difference that all these ex-quarterbacks are not taking into account when they say, “Every team doctors the footballs.” Former quarterback Matt Leinart tweeted said something Wednesday that many quarterbacks were saying in different ways: “Every team tampers with the football. Ask any QB in the league, this is ridiculous!!”Every quarterback can tamper with the 12 footballs assigned to his team in the days before the game. In the NFL, each team is allowed weekly to break in 12 new footballs as it sees fit, according to the quarterback’s preference. That includes taking the shine and slipperiness off the new balls, and compressing them and working them in to soften the leather. By rule, those 12 footballs are then delivered to the officiating crew on site 2 hours and 15 minutes before the game begins.

At that point the head linesman inspects each football with one or more members of his crew. If need be, the officials will clean off the balls. Then they will insert a needle into the balls, one by one, to ensure the balls are inflated to the proper pressure: between 12.5 and 13.5 psi. If a ball is underinflated, an electric pump is used to fill it to the requisite level. Then all 12 balls are marked by silver Sharpie with a referee’s personal preference of a mark—Gene Steratore’s crew uses the letter “L,” for Steratore’s fiancée, Lisa—and put back into the bag, and zipped. The bags are handed to the ballboys minutes before the opening kickoff. If it’s raining, or bad weather is on the way, the officials might tell the ballboys to change the ball on every play, whether it hits the ground on the previous play or not.To sum up: Yes, the quarterback or his equipment staff can break in the balls in whatever way they want a couple of days before the game. But no, the quarterback cannot dictate the level of air pressure in the ball. Or at least he cannot do it legally. And the low air pressure in the Patriots’ footballs is why this is a story.

3. If Belichick is found to be culpable, I think Goodell will come down hard on him. It’s early. We don’t yet know where the trail on this investigation will lead. So this is presuming a lot. But in reporting a Goodell story four years ago, this anecdote stuck out to me. You’ll recall that after the 2007 Spygate investion into the Patriots’ videotaping of opposing coaches’ signals that Goodell fined Belichick $500,000 and the franchise an additional $250,000, and he docked New England a first-round draft pick. As part of the discipline, Belichick would have to make a verbal apology in front of the press that week. Instead, the coach issued a printed statement and refused to answer any questions on the topic. “I was given assurances that [belichick] would tell his side of the story,” Goodell said at the time. “He went out and stonewalled the press. I feel like I was deceived.”
Peter King is obviously just a "hater"

Signed /random Pats fan

 
Workhorse said:
CR69 said:
I find it amusing how Patriots fans try to claim that every team does things like this and what happened during spygate, yet no other team gets accused or caught doing it. Just admit that Belichick does everything he can to gain an advantage, including cheating, and own it.
Why do these things need to be mutually exclusive? I think they are both true.
Spot on. Yes, it's very disappointing to see deceptive practices (at best) from the team you support. It's also quite naive to believe there is only one set of coaches/staff/players in a billion dollar industry that are pushing every rule in their chase for wins, job security, and money.
IF the Patriots get caught.....again. That's all that matters. If you get caught, you pay the piper. They need to lose their 1st and 2nd rd picks this year and lower their salary cap $$$$ significantly. Belichick and the Patriots needs to be a taught that if they cheat, they're going to get hammered...period!!
Dude....I hate the Pats as much as the next guy, but come on.
The integrity of the league is at stake here. At some point you have to do something to fix it.
Yeah, that's a bit much buddy. The most likely scenario here is the Pats gave the refs under-inflated balls for the game, and the refs simply missed it in their inspection.

In the meantime, did you know that when someone like Richard Sherman or Bruce Irvin (or Brandon Browner, admittedly) gets caught using 'Adderall', that's based only on the claim of the player? Neither the league nor the team can say what they tested positive for.

So they get caught using drugs, they look at the list of forbidden substances and find the most innocuous one, and they say that's what they were caught using. Adderall is what college kids use to pull all-nighters, but thanks to league policy and the lamb media, people think it's a bigger problem then, you know... steroids!

Forgive me if I'm being naive, but like you I'm a crusader for the 'integrity of the game' so I just thought perhaps this would be a more pertinent issue than the fact that seven years ago, the New England Patriots had a guy with a camera on their sideline when he should have had a pen and paper.
Not anymore, that rule has recently changed, for the betterment of the league.
Was going to mention this. It's something to track going forward. If incidents of Adderall busts suddenly fall off a cliff (now that it's considered SA and not PED), but some new drug becomes the default excuse for PEDs, we can kind of assume that's the reasoning. The NFL is allowed to say something if the player lies, but it doesn't necessarily mean they will.

 
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I'm not sure how many people are watching ESPN today, but they mentioned there that the Colts first noticed the deflated balls in their regular season matchup with NE this year, which is why they asked to have the balls checked during the playoff game (at which point it was found that 11 of the 12 were under-inflated).

So people keep talking about how it had no impact on the outcome of this game, which is true, but it certainly seems like NE has been doing this beyond just this one game. What about last week's game which came down to the last minute? Could it have had an affect on that game?
The Colts/Pats first game was in Indy, so the whole pressure loss due to lower temperature bit doesn't fly there. This is certainly smoke.
The pressure loss thing I thought was already debunked. Maybe that was just a "today on ESPN" thing too, but at halftime of the playoff game they tested all 12 of the NE balls and all 12 of the Colts' balls. 11 of the NE balls were under-inflated while 0 of the Colts' balls were.
I'm guessing the Patriots did mess with the balls but if people want to push the narrative of the temp, then the Colts balls not being under inflated doesn't discount that theory. As stated before in the thread there is a limit of like 12.5-13.5 for the balls or something. If the Patriots put their balls at the 12.5 lower end and the Colts prefer say 13.5 higher end then it's not ridiculous to think the temperature could cause the Patriot's inflation to fall below the limit while the Colts still remained intact.

Again I think the Patriots did probably mess with them but the Colts being within the range doesn't necessarily discard any potential theory.
The NE balls were 2psi under the lower limit. If that were a result of the weather then the indy balls would have been under too even if they were initially inflated to the max amount.
I'm taking devils advocate stance here. Assume Patriots ball actual initial pressure was 12.3, but rounded up to 12.5 and was ok. Assume Colts exact initial pressure was exactly 13.5 psi. both balls are measured at 75 dF. Everything ok so far?

During the game, the temp drops to 45 dF, and the balls are brought in to test. The Patriot balls are checked first (@ 45 dF), and per the ideal gas law, the pressure should now be 10.8 dF - a change of 1.51 psi, which rounds up to 2. Depending on the precision of the gauge, one might read this as a 12.5psi football deflating to 10.5 psi.

The Colts balls are then checked as a control sample. but now, because they have warmed up, they are at 55 dF. The theoretical air pressure would be 12.4 psi, which rounds up to 12.5 and be within spec.

Again, devils advocate, and this is why we need more details on how the half-time measurement was taken.
I don't think anyone said that any of the values given were rounded. I highly doubt that balls at 12.3 psi would pass inspection via some crazy half point rounding. I also highly doubt that ESPN would report 1.5 psi as 2 psi.

Regardless, even if those extremely unlikely things were true, it would still take a bizarre set of circumstances for things to have worked out that way. With the information we have now I think we say with pretty high certainty that it was not some benign issue where the weather caused NE's balls to deflate and not Indy's.

 
25 pages in 2 days... 49er fan here, I could care less about this stupid ####### scandal. Can we move on and get to this ####ty Super Bowl and be done with this season?

 
From Jason La Canfora: "I spoke to someone who is very familiar with the Pats practice and game-day handling of their game balls -- someone no longer a member of the organization who has no stake in the outcome of this investigation one way or another -- who was adamant that there had never been any sort of protocol about deflating balls in the rain or certain conditions.

"We would practice in the rain, Bill would throw water on dry balls during practice and there was never anything done to deflate them because of it being wet," the former Patriot said. "That doesn't even make any sense. As anal as Tom is about the balls, there's no way he'd let some ball boy or whatever try to deflate it to a certain PSI.

"Tom knows a football, and the way he wants it, like you or I would know a kid. But there was never anything deflating or doctoring balls during a game. He knows how he wants the ball going into a game and he's not going to take any chances of someone else messing around with a ball to get it right. As anal as he is about the way he wants the balls to be, he's not going to able to tell the difference of 1psi or whatever.

"I'm just telling you, that's not how it works. He wants those balls to be right going into the game. But D'Qwell Jackson could tell after he intercepts a ball and is running to the sidelines? It just doesn't add up to me.""

http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24982082

 
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/not-for-attribution/longtime-college-football-equipment-manager-everyone-cheats-deflates-184104713.html

Longtime college football manager: Everyone cheats and deflates footballs on game day

Not for Attribution By Charles Robinson Jan 7, 2013 1:41 PM

.

In a small way, your college football team is likely cheating every game day. At least, thats what a long-tenured college football equipment manager believes.

With the college football season coming to a close, we conducted a Q&A with an equipment manager about some of the white lies and misdemeanors that occur in the sport. Specifically, the focus was to revisit the football-deflating fiasco at USC earlier this season, when an allegedly rogue student manager for the Trojans was busted and dismissed for deflating footballs in a loss to Oregon.

While not exactly a high crime in the eyes of fans, tampering with balls is something the NCAA and member conferences take seriously. And it got us wondering how often such low-tech cheating takes place. The question brought us to a longtime equipment manager who agreed to talk about the sideline shenanigans so long as we didnt identify him or his team. What we can say is that his resume includes longtime employment in a power conference, with a program in perennial bowl contention.

Y!: Ball-tampering in general, its sort of a behind-the-scenes thing in college football, maybe like a major league pitcher scuffing a baseball. Were you guys surprised someone got caught deflating footballs?

A: Not really. Being around football, its just common. Its just the way it works. Everybody does it. You know youre not supposed to do it, but nobody thinks its that big of a deal. I dont think anybody looks at it as cheating.

Y!: When you say everybody does it, thats obviously an assumption.

A: Yeah, but I have talked to a lot of coaches since the USC thing happened, and they say it happens in all the places they have coached.

Y!: In theory, a softer ball is easier to hold onto and can prevent less fumbling. So, in theory, you deflate it because it makes easier to throw, carry and catch. If the other team isnt deflating their balls, it gives you an edge. Thats not cheating?

A: I dont think in the amount I have seen them changed that it really makes that big of a difference. I think its just a comfort thing for the quarterback.

Y!: So in football parlance its not exactly like stealing defensive signals. Its not serious.

A: Not in my opinion. Both teams use their own set of footballs [on game day]. Both teams can do whatever they want with them maybe not by the definition of the rule, but in reality both teams can do what they want. If you were sharing balls with the other team, then I can see why there would be something wrong with it.

Y!: You view it as, these are our balls, so we can do what we want with them.

A: Yeah.

Y!: So how does it work, exactly? Take me through the process of how you would deflate a ball.

A: Before the game the officials ask for like, six footballs. You provide them to the officials before the game in the locker room. Then they take a Sharpie and they mark them on the white strip with whatever marks or colors they recognize as saying, you know, Weve approved these balls. After that, youre not supposed to touch them at all. But between your ball boys and the ball being on the sidelines and then at halftime, when you control all of your own balls there is ample opportunity to adjust them.

Y!: When youre adjusting them, how do you know when a football is soft enough?

A: Every team I have been around, the quarterback position has their own manager. And it is that managers responsibility to go to the quarterback with around 12 balls and give the quarterback a chance to pick out the six balls they like. At that point, its more so the quarterback can get the feel for the leather of the ball. Then you give them to the official and after they are checked and you get them back, thats when you adjust the inflation.

Y!: So its really something between the quarterback and their specific manager. But the quarterback takes part?

A: Yeah. After a while you get to know how the quarterback likes the inflation. It depends on the quarterback. They may give you free rein to adjust them yourself. Or you get some quarterbacks who may want to test the pressure themselves by gripping the ball and then kind of adjust it with you.

Y!: So the quarterback may say Hey, I want this ball deflated, and then it gets taken care of?

A: Right. And Ive seen quarterbacks on both extremes. Some dont care at all and will play with a brick. Then you have other quarterbacks who are very particular and it has to be just right.

Y!: But going back to the rules, this is considered cheating. Youre not supposed to mess with the inflation. Do you think its generally assumed by each team that the opponent is probably deflating their set of footballs?

A: Yeah. Honestly, I dont think anybody ever thinks twice about doing it. Although, if youre in a position where you have to do it on the sideline, everybody is always aware that you cant do it out in the open. You might have somebody stand in front of you when youre taking air out, or you might sit down on the bench and kind of cover it up. But yeah, its normal. Its kind of the game day process.

Y!: How do you deflate it?

A: For the helmets, theres a handheld air pump. You squeeze it and it has a needle on the end. You squeeze it to pump it, it has a little knob on the side. You just turn the knob counterclockwise, and it lets air out. Every sideline has like 20 of those around, so its common for people to carry them.

Y!: Over the course of a season, how many times would you say, on average, you have deflated footballs?

A: At least once a week. On game day. Every week.

Y!: So every week, after that official marks that ball, you take it and start messing with the pressure in it?

A: Yeah. Again, thats depending on the quarterback. Occasionally some quarterbacks dont care, so you dont have to do it. But for the quarterbacks who do care and in my experience, thats the majority of them youre doing it every week.

Y!: How did you learn to do something like this?

A: Thats a good question. I cant even remember how I learned it. Its not like there is a sit-down, tutorial session on it. I guess for me, it just had always gone on. It was just known, whoever was responsible for the quarterbacks, you are expected to go to him and discuss changes that had to be made with the ball.

Y!: Did a coach ever tell you that adjusting a ball is part of your job?

A: Let me put it this way, Ive never had a coach sit there when its happening and take part in it. But thats just because they assume that the manager and their quarterback will take care of it.

Y!: But how do you know the coaches are aware that this is happening?

A: Oh, I know they are aware. Weve discussed it. Ive had conversations with coaches about it. Even more so after the USC incident. For such a small story, I had a lot of conversations with coaches about the USC thing. But most of it was about what nonsense the USC thing was, because its just so run-of-the-mill. It happens everywhere. And of course, we were kind of laughing because of the whole Oh, this poor student manager was solely responsible for deflating footballs. Everybody kind of read that and knew it was a big joke.

Y!: The idea of a rogue manager deflating balls on his own isnt realistic?

A: Theres no way, no how, that a student manager does that on his own without someone else instructing him or knowing about it. Of course I wasnt there, but thats my opinion.

Y!: USC was fined $25,000 and the manager involved got fired. In your own situation, if someone gets caught, what happens?

A: In all the years, Ive never seen anybody get caught in the process of it. Although on a small handful of occasions, an official might turn around mid-game throw a ball to the sideline and say This ball needs to be inflated. But once the game gets started, unless its really noticeable, I dont think they are paying attention to it.

Y!: Have there been any times where you thought you were caught?

A: No. The closest calls are those rare instances where you need to make an adjustment on the sideline. Youre just very careful about making sure nobody sees you doing it.

Y!: Is there a plan in place if someone catches you?

A: I guess you play through it some in your head. But I guess you have to have some sort of self-assurance that theres a chain of command. Its not my call. Its not like its something you just make up and go do it on your own. I guess the feeling is that if you got caught, you could go to the coach and they wont kill you over it kind of like what happened to the guy at USC. I would hope that that wouldnt happen. Honestly, Id probably just play dumb.

 
From Jason La Canfora: "I spoke to someone who is very familiar with the Pats practice and game-day handling of their game balls -- someone no longer a member of the organization who has no stake in the outcome of this investigation one way or another -- who was adamant that there had never been any sort of protocol about deflating balls in the rain or certain conditions.

"We would practice in the rain, Bill would throw water on dry balls during practice and there was never anything done to deflate them because of it being wet," the former Patriot said. "That doesn't even make any sense. As anal as Tom is about the balls, there's no way he'd let some ball boy or whatever try to deflate it to a certain PSI.

"Tom knows a football, and the way he wants it, like you or I would know a kid. But there was never anything deflating or doctoring balls during a game. He knows how he wants the ball going into a game and he's not going to take any chances of someone else messing around with a ball to get it right. As anal as he is about the way he wants the balls to be, he's not going to able to tell the difference of 1psi or whatever.

"I'm just telling you, that's not how it works. He wants those balls to be right going into the game. But D'Qwell Jackson could tell after he intercepts a ball and is running to the sidelines? It just doesn't add up to me.""

http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24982082
Firstly, doesn't that beg the question as to whether Brady himself was in on it and wanted the balls deflated?

Secondly, it was after the D'Qwell Jackson interception that the Colts noticed the balls were deflated, though it was the equipment manager on the sideline that he handed the ball to that noticed it (a LB who rarely handles the ball probably wouldn't notice). Interestingly, this was the same way they became suspicious about NE deflating the balls in their regular season matchup, after an interception in that game. They didn't raise a big enough stink about it during the regular season game to have them tested, but they did notice it enough to include on their list of things that they wanted the officials to watch for in the playoff game.

 
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From Jason La Canfora: "I spoke to someone who is very familiar with the Pats practice and game-day handling of their game balls -- someone no longer a member of the organization who has no stake in the outcome of this investigation one way or another -- who was adamant that there had never been any sort of protocol about deflating balls in the rain or certain conditions.

"We would practice in the rain, Bill would throw water on dry balls during practice and there was never anything done to deflate them because of it being wet," the former Patriot said. "That doesn't even make any sense. As anal as Tom is about the balls, there's no way he'd let some ball boy or whatever try to deflate it to a certain PSI.

"Tom knows a football, and the way he wants it, like you or I would know a kid. But there was never anything deflating or doctoring balls during a game. He knows how he wants the ball going into a game and he's not going to take any chances of someone else messing around with a ball to get it right. As anal as he is about the way he wants the balls to be, he's not going to able to tell the difference of 1psi or whatever.

"I'm just telling you, that's not how it works. He wants those balls to be right going into the game. But D'Qwell Jackson could tell after he intercepts a ball and is running to the sidelines? It just doesn't add up to me.""

http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24982082
That was a question I had after reading the Eli Manning article. If these QB's are extremely anal about their footballs, why would they get them how they want them, then let a ballboy go let out a bunch of air. You'd think they would want to ok them and make sure they are perfect. Just doesn't seem logical to me that they would let ballboys tamper with them.

Of course there hasn't been any evidence or reports that ballboys have done that, but many are speculating that.

In the end, we really don't have any rock-solid info. The game has been over 3 days and the NFL has failed to really give us any concrete info, instead letting a world of journalists, wanna-be journalists, and everyone else who has a twitter account or blog, speculate and draw conclusions based on half-truths and innuendo.

At some point the NFL needs to provide some facts so we can move on.

 
I'm still trying to figure out how a ball boy or someone else could let out exactly 2psi of air in 11 balls without being detected?

Does anyone ever have access to these balls after they are signed off by the officials where they could possibly do this? I think the NFL should contact Bradshaw and ask him how the Steelers used to do it, most likely the same way the Pats did.

 
From Jason La Canfora: "I spoke to someone who is very familiar with the Pats practice and game-day handling of their game balls -- someone no longer a member of the organization who has no stake in the outcome of this investigation one way or another -- who was adamant that there had never been any sort of protocol about deflating balls in the rain or certain conditions.

"We would practice in the rain, Bill would throw water on dry balls during practice and there was never anything done to deflate them because of it being wet," the former Patriot said. "That doesn't even make any sense. As anal as Tom is about the balls, there's no way he'd let some ball boy or whatever try to deflate it to a certain PSI.

"Tom knows a football, and the way he wants it, like you or I would know a kid. But there was never anything deflating or doctoring balls during a game. He knows how he wants the ball going into a game and he's not going to take any chances of someone else messing around with a ball to get it right. As anal as he is about the way he wants the balls to be, he's not going to able to tell the difference of 1psi or whatever.

"I'm just telling you, that's not how it works. He wants those balls to be right going into the game. But D'Qwell Jackson could tell after he intercepts a ball and is running to the sidelines? It just doesn't add up to me.""

http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24982082
That was a question I had after reading the Eli Manning article. If these QB's are extremely anal about their footballs, why would they get them how they want them, then let a ballboy go let out a bunch of air. You'd think they would want to ok them and make sure they are perfect. Just doesn't seem logical to me that they would let ballboys tamper with them.

Of course there hasn't been any evidence or reports that ballboys have done that, but many are speculating that.

In the end, we really don't have any rock-solid info. The game has been over 3 days and the NFL has failed to really give us any concrete info, instead letting a world of journalists, wanna-be journalists, and everyone else who has a twitter account or blog, speculate and draw conclusions based on half-truths and innuendo.

At some point the NFL needs to provide some facts so we can move on.
TY for a reasonable post on this.

 
I'm still trying to figure out how a ball boy or someone else could let out exactly 2psi of air in 11 balls without being detected?

Does anyone ever have access to these balls after they are signed off by the officials where they could possibly do this? I think the NFL should contact Bradshaw and ask him how the Steelers used to do it, most likely the same way the Pats did.
A needle with a calibrated pressure valve.

 
zilladog said:
So Eli admits to doctoring balls.

Rogers admits to doctoring balls.

Brad Johnson admits to BRIBING people in a superbowl to secretly doctor balls.

But....It's a Patriots issue............rrrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
]Eli and Aaron do it within the rules and are not ashamed of their actions, exhibiting no moral guilt. Further, by their forthrightness in the matter they invite the league to monitor their equipment scrupulously.

Brady, now he dismisses the matter saying discussion of the matter itself is laughable. He deflects, the actions of a guilty mind trying to redirect attention.
I thought Rodgers said he went over the limit to see if he would be caught? So because they show no remorse means they aren't guilty?
That you purposely misunderstand does not make the point unclear, it speaks to you, nothing more.

 
@bbrowner27: For my 2cents Blount scored 3 rushing touchdowns. He could've carried a beach ball. Also doesn't hurt we only gave up 7 points #inflatethis
Did anyone enlighten Mr. Browner the issue isn't whether cheating influenced the outcome of the game, but the fact they cheated if proven true.

 
@bbrowner27: For my 2cents Blount scored 3 rushing touchdowns. He could've carried a beach ball. Also doesn't hurt we only gave up 7 points #inflatethis
Did anyone enlighten Mr. Browner the issue isn't whether cheating influenced the outcome of the game, but the fact they cheated if proven true.
Pretty sure they still ban you from a casino if you cheat and still somehow lose.

 
@bbrowner27: For my 2cents Blount scored 3 rushing touchdowns. He could've carried a beach ball. Also doesn't hurt we only gave up 7 points #inflatethis
Nice to see that some have tripled down on trying to make it about whether or not it affected the game.
Yeah it's amazing so many completely miss the point. I don't think there's a soul around who is making the case that the outcome would be different had alleged "cheating" not occurred .

Always nice to win an argument nobody is making I guess. Lot of sites quoting random NFL coaches saying it didn't affect the outcome of the game. No #### sherlocks

 
mbuehner said:
Here's the official rules on the ball:

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/5_2013_Ball.pdf

Rule 2 The Ball
Section 1
BALL DIMENSIONS
The Ball must be a “Wilson,” hand selected, bearing the signature of the Commissioner of the League, Roger Goodell.
The ball shall be made up of an inflated (12 1/2 to 13 1/2 pounds) urethane bladder enclosed in a pebble grained, leather case
(natural tan color) without corrugations of any kind. It shall have the form of a prolate spheroid and the size and weight
shall be: long axis, 11 to 11 1/4 inches; long circumference, 28 to 28 1/2 inches; short circumference, 21 to 21 1/4 inches;
weight, 14 to 15 ounces. If you win by at least 3 touchdowns, you can ignore this rule and call everyone a hater if you get caught.
My bad, I missed this the first time. Carry on.

 
So what will people do if this gets resolved by Brady saying he asks the ball boy to keep the pressure in balls low, the ball boy over did it, the refs didn't catch it, the league fines Brady $25,000, and the Pats get a warning not to do it again. That's it. Nothing further.

 
If this really is rampant I feel bad for all the teams that cheat and still suck.

If this isn't rampant I feel even worse for the teams that suck and don't cheat.

It's entertaining watching you guys get apoplectic yet again while I look forward to watching my team in yet another superbowl. I love watching this team. If they're really pumping hot air in the footballs then lol. Actual genius not just football genius imo.
:goodposting:

This thread is awesome

 
I know there is a lot we do not know right now, but what I do know makes me angry and disappointed to even think would could be going through this crap again :kicksrock:

 
Three points are important to keep in mind as this story develops:

1. I think it’s fair to assume—though it hasn’t been confirmed by the league—that the Patriots’ footballs that were tested at halftime Sunday had less air, and the Colts’ footballs were all found to be legal. Connect the dots. Chris Mortensen reported Tuesday that 11 of 12 Patriots football had approximately two pounds less pressure per square inch than the mandated 12.5 psi required by the NFL. In other words, the Patriots’ footballs were softer than allowed by rule. The obvious deduction is that all the balls, for both teams, were measured at halftime, and that New England’s footballs were found to be softer—or else the league would be investigating Indianapolis as well, and the league is clearly not doing that. This is important because it would render moot the theory going around that the cold weather could have caused the air pressure in the balls to decrease. It was the same weather on both sidelines.

2. There’s a difference that all these ex-quarterbacks are not taking into account when they say, “Every team doctors the footballs.” Former quarterback Matt Leinart tweeted something Wednesday that many quarterbacks were saying in different ways: “Every team tampers with the football. Ask any QB in the league, this is ridiculous!!”

Every quarterback can tamper with the 12 footballs assigned to his team in the days before the game. In the NFL, each team is allowed weekly to break in 12 new footballs as it sees fit, according to the quarterback’s preference. That includes taking the shine and slipperiness off the new balls, and compressing them and working them in to soften the leather. By rule, those 12 footballs are then delivered to the officiating crew on site 2 hours and 15 minutes before the game begins.

At that point the head linesman inspects each football with one or more members of his crew. If need be, the officials will clean off the balls. Then they will insert a needle into the balls, one by one, to ensure the balls are inflated to the proper pressure: between 12.5 and 13.5 psi. If a ball is underinflated, an electric pump is used to fill it to the requisite level. Then all 12 balls are marked by silver Sharpie with a referee’s personal preference of a mark—Gene Steratore’s crew uses the letter “L,” for Steratore’s fiancée, Lisa—and put back into the bag, and zipped. The bags are handed to the ballboys minutes before the opening kickoff. If it’s raining, or bad weather is on the way, the officials might tell the ballboys to change the ball on every play, whether it hits the ground on the previous play or not.

To sum up: Yes, the quarterback or his equipment staff can break in the balls in whatever way they want a couple of days before the game. But no, the quarterback cannot dictate the level of air pressure in the ball. Or at least he cannot do it legally. And the low air pressure in the Patriots’ footballs is why this is a story.

3. If Belichick is found to be culpable, I think Goodell will come down hard on him. It’s early. We don’t yet know where the trail on this investigation will lead. So this is presuming a lot. But in reporting a Goodell story four years ago, this anecdote stuck out to me. You’ll recall that after the 2007 Spygate investigation into the Patriots’ videotaping of opposing coaches’ signals that Goodell fined Belichick $500,000 and the franchise an additional $250,000, and he docked New England a first-round draft pick. As part of the discipline, Belichick would have to make a verbal apology in front of the press that week. Instead, the coach issued a printed statement and refused to answer any questions on the topic. “I was given assurances that [belichick] would tell his side of the story,” Goodell said at the time. “He went out and stonewalled the press. I feel like I was deceived.”

Belichick said at the time, “I did not make any assurances about thoroughly discussing the subject publicly. I said I would address it following the league’s review. I then did that in a way I thought was appropriate. I don’t think that was deceptive.’’

Goodell did. I doubt there’s much benefit-of-the-doubt here if Goodell finds that Belichick was involved in the deflating.

http://mmqb.si.com/2015/01/21/patriots-tom-brady-bill-belichick-deflategate-ball-controversy/

 
Couldn't you heat the ball to artificially increase the pressure?Then when it cools off it reverts to the flatter pressure?
An easier option would be to insert hot air into the ball right before it was inspected.
Good point. Inflate it with the exact amount of hot air needed to A) pass the referee inspection, and B) be 2 pounds under pressure exactly 2 hours and 15 minutes later. I bet Belichick hired a math nerd to calculate exactly what temperature the air needs to be when the balls are filled.
 
So what will people do if this gets resolved by Brady saying he asks the ball boy to keep the pressure in balls low, the ball boy over did it, the refs didn't catch it, the league fines Brady $25,000, and the Pats get a warning not to do it again. That's it. Nothing further.
Honestly, no one would buy it. That's what happens when an organization already busted for cheating gets caught in a situation like this again.

 
Pats fans, give it up. This has been such a constant refrain over the years there is no way to view NEs success with anything but a skeptical eye.

That doesn't mean they wouldn't have won withput cheating, but it seems that they haven't done that yet - this year included.

Your BEST possible outcome is to "win" another tainted title before BB and B ride into the sunset, obscured by the smoke of deceit.

And this fair wearher and most annoying of all fan bases can crawl back from under the rock from which you came.

Sad thing is how good this team has been. But they are the ones who have tarnished everything they have accomplished - no one else to blame. It's like Nixon... He was going to win anyway, but was of such poor character that he had to cheat anyway. Is BB and maybe Brady any different?

Not In history's eyes they won't be. Welcome to being the Barry Bonds of super bowl winners

 
The 'natural pressure change' argument is easy to explore. The formula is simple:

P1/T1 = P2/T2.

Lets take the very outer temperature limits of plausibility, say it was 75d F when they filled them, and 33dF when they tested (you have to change F to Kelvin to work this formula).

12.5PSI / 297K = X / 274K

Solve for X = 11.5 PSI

So even if the temp dropped farther than we know it dropped, at most you would lose 1 pound per square inch of pressure.

In order to lose 2PSI, the temperature the balls were filled at would have had to have been 127d F.

 
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