Patriots being investigated after Colts game (3 Viewers)

[Deamon]

Ask Stevan Ridley why the Patriots don't fumble much.

BenJarvus Green-ellis might be a good guy to ask too.0 fumbles in 536 touches as a Patriot, 5 fumbles in 524 touches as a Bengal.

959 touches in college, wait for it ... 0 fumbles. Now what?

annnnnd he won't respond to this fact.

 

[ragnarok628]

When Carroll got caught doing this at USC, he just pointed at the kid/intern/equipment guy. Then fired him. Done.

When did this happen?

didn't

 

[moleculo]

Ask Stevan Ridley why the Patriots don't fumble much.

BenJarvus Green-ellis might be a good guy to ask too.0 fumbles in 536 touches as a Patriot, 5 fumbles in 524 touches as a Bengal.

959 touches in college, wait for it ... 0 fumbles. Now what?

Obviously, his college played with under-inflated balls too.

 

[Gandalf the Grey]

When Carroll got caught doing this at USC, he just pointed at the kid/intern/equipment guy. Then fired him. Done.

Yeah I was going to mention this earlier. They got to find their fall guy now. Expect a ball boy to get fired soon I guess.

you guys are like the 7th and 8th in this thread to incorrectly attribute the USC thing to Carroll. Lane Kiffen was the coach for that one.

Ok, I read this a few days ago, didn't necessarily remember who the coach was nor do I think that's the important takeaway. What's relevant there is that it provides an example of how a team WILL mess with ball inflation levels to gain some level of advantage, and that they found a fall guy for plausible deniability. Thanks for the correction though.

 

[Ghost Rider]

When Carroll got caught doing this at USC, he just pointed at the kid/intern/equipment guy. Then fired him. Done.

Yeah I was going to mention this earlier. They got to find their fall guy now. Expect a ball boy to get fired soon I guess.

And if that happens, that disgruntled, just-fired ball boy will run to the media and tell everything he knows.

 

[Niles Standish]

Lol @ Brady claiming be didn't notice the balls were underinflated after playing with them for 2 quarters, yet D'Qwell Jackson noticed immediately after picking him off. These guys are terrible liars.

The refs didn't notice for two quarters. Maybe D'Qwell Jackson has a career as a ref waiting for him when his career is over.

And yet a Colts equipment manager noticed immediately when given the ball after one of Mike Adams interceptions when they played in Indy. So his point stands.

That kind of makes it sound like the NFL didn't care. If the Pats have been doing this for years you would think a ref would notice handling the ball every play. Which is honestly the most likely scenario. The refs didn't much care because the NFL didn't care. Someone got mad at the Pats (Harbaugh seems likely) and tipped the refs/Colts someone to check for this.

The other possibilities are the Pats have only done it a short time or the refs aren't very competent.

 

[moleculo]

Ask Stevan Ridley why the Patriots don't fumble much.

BenJarvus Green-ellis might be a good guy to ask too.0 fumbles in 536 touches as a Patriot, 5 fumbles in 524 touches as a Bengal.

959 touches in college, wait for it ... 0 fumbles. Now what?

annnnnd he won't respond to this fact.

Geez, give a guy a chance to drive home.

 

[12punch]

When Carroll got caught doing this at USC, he just pointed at the kid/intern/equipment guy. Then fired him. Done.

Yeah I was going to mention this earlier. They got to find their fall guy now. Expect a ball boy to get fired soon I guess.

you guys are like the 7th and 8th in this thread to incorrectly attribute the USC thing to Carroll. Lane Kiffen was the coach for that one.

GET YOUR FACTS OUT OF HERE!!! I TOM BRADY AND THE PATRIOTS. THEY'RE ALWAYS CHEATING!!!2

 

[Tool]

NFL is a joke for letting this idiotic discussion go on for so long. They're holding an investigation but haven't talked to Brady. Media is running with whatever info they want whether it's true or not. Noone knows if the balls were deflated by 2 psi's or .2 psi's or whatever. People believe what they want to believe. If you hate the Pats of course, now you can walk around with an erection over this story. If you like the Pats, you're going to think it's all a bunch of bs.

I think that's really more up to fbg mods than the nfl

i'm referring to the national discussion not this message board.

 

[Thorn]

Ask Stevan Ridley why the Patriots don't fumble much.

BenJarvus Green-ellis might be a good guy to ask too.0 fumbles in 536 touches as a Patriot, 5 fumbles in 524 touches as a Bengal.

959 touches in college, wait for it ... 0 fumbles. Now what?

Obviously, his college played with under-inflated balls too.

Two colleges.

 

[moleculo]

Ask Stevan Ridley why the Patriots don't fumble much.

BenJarvus Green-ellis might be a good guy to ask too.0 fumbles in 536 touches as a Patriot, 5 fumbles in 524 touches as a Bengal.

959 touches in college, wait for it ... 0 fumbles. Now what?

Obviously, his college played with under-inflated balls too.

Two colleges.

OMG, its an epidemic!

 

[ragnarok628]

Ask Stevan Ridley why the Patriots don't fumble much.

BenJarvus Green-ellis might be a good guy to ask too.0 fumbles in 536 touches as a Patriot, 5 fumbles in 524 touches as a Bengal.

959 touches in college, wait for it ... 0 fumbles. Now what?

Obviously, his college played with under-inflated balls too.

as someone already said, the ball is different. don't know how much difference that makes, but a cursory look at fumbles per game statistics for the top 32 ranked NCAA teams compared to fumbles per game for NFL, NFL does have a slightly higher rate on average.

ETA: for clarity, there are more fumbles per game on average in the NFL which may support the idea that a football that is easier to grip is less likely to be fumbled.

 

[parrot]

Blount had 6 fumbles on 426 carries with Tampa, or one every 71 carries.

He has 3 fumbles with the Pats on 213 carries, or one every 71 carries.

He had 1 fumble on 65 carries with Pittsburgh.

Clearly there is something nefarious going on with New England.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Actually, I don't really want to discuss this crap. Posts deleted.

 

[ragnarok628]

Blount had 6 fumbles on 426 carries with Tampa, or one every 71 carries.

He has 3 fumbles with the Pats on 213 carries, or one every 71 carries.

He had 1 fumble on 65 carries with Pittsburgh.

Clearly there is something nefarious going on with New England.

well i mean there's always that 1 in 16,000 chance that the NE fumble rate is so far to the left of the bell curve by random chance as opposed to because of *something* the patriots are doing differently than the rest of the NFL.

 

[Run It Up]

Lol, this entire thing gets better every day. So much outrage.

 

[Old Smiley]

Blount had 6 fumbles on 426 carries with Tampa, or one every 71 carries.

He has 3 fumbles with the Pats on 213 carries, or one every 71 carries.

He had 1 fumble on 65 carries with Pittsburgh.

Clearly there is something nefarious going on with New England.

well i mean there's always that 1 in 16,000 chance that the NE fumble rate is so far to the left of the bell curve by random chance as opposed to because of *something* the patriots are doing differently than the rest of the NFL.

How about a coach who's a great teacher making ball security a huge priority. How many of you fantasy players get ticked at BB when he benches his backs and ruins your games? He takes it super seriously. You can teach it.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

### #### PATRIOTS AT IT AGAIN...CHEATERS CHEATERS WEAR WIFE BEATERS !!!!!!

### #### SALTY HATERS ALWAYS SAYING WE ARE CHEATERS CHEATERS THAT WEAR WIFE BEATERS !!!!!!

 

[yellowdog]

Is the "Salty Hater" alias taken yet?

 

[parrot]

Blount had 6 fumbles on 426 carries with Tampa, or one every 71 carries.

He has 3 fumbles with the Pats on 213 carries, or one every 71 carries.

He had 1 fumble on 65 carries with Pittsburgh.

Clearly there is something nefarious going on with New England.

well i mean there's always that 1 in 16,000 chance that the NE fumble rate is so far to the left of the bell curve by random chance as opposed to because of *something* the patriots are doing differently than the rest of the NFL.

Like stressing ball security and not hesitating to bench their starting RB for half the year when he has a couple fumbles? But no, it's probably the ball pressure.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

@garymyersNYDN: One reason to believe Brady: The truth will come out. In this case, cover up would be worse than crime. He's got too much at stake to lie.

 

[RenegadeRoy]

Blount had 6 fumbles on 426 carries with Tampa, or one every 71 carries.

He has 3 fumbles with the Pats on 213 carries, or one every 71 carries.

He had 1 fumble on 65 carries with Pittsburgh.

Clearly there is something nefarious going on with New England.

well i mean there's always that 1 in 16,000 chance that the NE fumble rate is so far to the left of the bell curve by random chance as opposed to because of *something* the patriots are doing differently than the rest of the NFL.

Like stressing ball security and not hesitating to bench their starting RB for half the year when he has a couple fumbles? But no, it's probably the ball pressure.

Or the fact that they focus on the pass game more than the run game?

 

[moleculo]

Lol @ Brady claiming be didn't notice the balls were underinflated after playing with them for 2 quarters, yet D'Qwell Jackson noticed immediately after picking him off. These guys are terrible liars.

The refs didn't notice for two quarters. Maybe D'Qwell Jackson has a career as a ref waiting for him when his career is over.

And yet a Colts equipment manager noticed immediately when given the ball after one of Mike Adams interceptions when they played in Indy. So his point stands.

That kind of makes it sound like the NFL didn't care. If the Pats have been doing this for years you would think a ref would notice handling the ball every play. Which is honestly the most likely scenario. The refs didn't much care because the NFL didn't care. Someone got mad at the Pats (Harbaugh seems likely) and tipped the refs/Colts someone to check for this.

The other possibilities are the Pats have only done it a short time or the refs aren't very competent.

Harbaugh studied the rulebook, IMO.

 

[ragnarok628]

Blount had 6 fumbles on 426 carries with Tampa, or one every 71 carries.

He has 3 fumbles with the Pats on 213 carries, or one every 71 carries.

He had 1 fumble on 65 carries with Pittsburgh.

Clearly there is something nefarious going on with New England.

well i mean there's always that 1 in 16,000 chance that the NE fumble rate is so far to the left of the bell curve by random chance as opposed to because of *something* the patriots are doing differently than the rest of the NFL.

Like stressing ball security and not hesitating to bench their starting RB for half the year when he has a couple fumbles? But no, it's probably the ball pressure.

Sure, there's lots of reasons that teams have higher or lower fumble rates. I'm not saying underinflated footballs have to be the only factor, or the main factor, or even a factor at all. Personally i doubt you get THAT much better than everybody else just by coaching, but you can believe what you want. probably other coaches don't mind fumbles as much as BB.

 

[moleculo]

Blount had 6 fumbles on 426 carries with Tampa, or one every 71 carries.

He has 3 fumbles with the Pats on 213 carries, or one every 71 carries.

He had 1 fumble on 65 carries with Pittsburgh.

Clearly there is something nefarious going on with New England.

well i mean there's always that 1 in 16,000 chance that the NE fumble rate is so far to the left of the bell curve by random chance as opposed to because of *something* the patriots are doing differently than the rest of the NFL.

Like stressing ball security and not hesitating to bench their starting RB for half the year when he has a couple fumbles? But no, it's probably the ball pressure.

surely at least one of the other 31 teams stresses not fumbling.

 

[RenegadeRoy]

Lol @ Brady claiming be didn't notice the balls were underinflated after playing with them for 2 quarters, yet D'Qwell Jackson noticed immediately after picking him off. These guys are terrible liars.

The refs didn't notice for two quarters. Maybe D'Qwell Jackson has a career as a ref waiting for him when his career is over.

And yet a Colts equipment manager noticed immediately when given the ball after one of Mike Adams interceptions when they played in Indy. So his point stands.

That kind of makes it sound like the NFL didn't care. If the Pats have been doing this for years you would think a ref would notice handling the ball every play. Which is honestly the most likely scenario. The refs didn't much care because the NFL didn't care. Someone got mad at the Pats (Harbaugh seems likely) and tipped the refs/Colts someone to check for this.

The other possibilities are the Pats have only done it a short time or the refs aren't very competent.

Harbaugh studied the rulebook, IMO.

IIRC Harbaugh was steamed about the line/ineligible substitution silliness aka he was embarrassed that he got burned by it.

 

[Road Warriors]

Ask Stevan Ridley why the Patriots don't fumble much.

BenJarvus Green-ellis might be a good guy to ask too.0 fumbles in 536 touches as a Patriot, 5 fumbles in 524 touches as a Bengal.

959 touches in college, wait for it ... 0 fumbles. Now what?

Obviously, his college played with under-inflated balls too.

as someone already said, the ball is different. don't know how much difference that makes, but a cursory look at fumbles per game statistics for the top 32 ranked NCAA teams compared to fumbles per game for NFL, NFL does have a slightly higher rate on average.

ETA: for clarity, there are more fumbles per game on average in the NFL which may support the idea that a football that is easier to grip is less likely to be fumbled.

Or, the biggest and best defenders are in the NFL, they're coached specifically to attack the football, and are more likely to cause fumbles.

 

[GrandpaRox]

Back then (referring to Alex Smith's 2005 rookie year), however, the opposing team handled all footballs used in games. And they would send in, perhaps strategically, balls straight out of the box that still had a sheen of waterproofing that made them hard and extremely slick. The following offseason, a group of veteran quarterbacks led by Peyton Manning and Tom Brady petitioned the league to allow both teams to supply balls that had been scuffed up, worn in and had a better grip.

Read more here: http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/archives/2013/08/small-hands-smith-how-a-myth-is-born-and-never-dies.html#storylink=cpy

http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/archives/2013/08/small-hands-smith-how-a-myth-is-born-and-never-dies.html

INT's per year league wide:

2003: 538 on 16495 attempts (3.26%)

2004: 521 on 16350 attempts (3.19%)

2005: 504 on 16465 attempts (3.06%)

2006: 520 on 16390 attempts (3.17%)

2007: 526 on 17054 attempts (3.08%)

2008: 464 on 16526 attempts (2.81%)

2009: 525 on 17034 attempts (3.08%)

2010: 510 on 17268 attempts (2.95)*

2011: 506 on 17410 attempts (2.91%)

2012: 468 on 17793 attempts (2.63%)

2013: 501 on 18144 attempts (2.76%)

2014: 450 on 17884 attempts (2.52%)

There were 29% more INT's in 2003 than 2014

Good info. This IMHO seems like a manufactured controversy. They changed the rules so QBs could make sure they had balls like they liked. Now, Indy started a firestorm and the NFL has to react. It will be interesting to see what they do, but this is so silly at this point.

Why not go back through all of NFL history pre-rule change and see how many home teams had an advantage in every playoff game because they supplied all balls for the game? Seems like there could be a lot of ****** to go around. If we are going to dig into this, let's examine every INT ever thrown by a visiting team pre-rule change.

Yeah but those cheating New Englanders have a long history of this crap. Read some of the stories of the old Boston Garden. Hidden spots in the floor where the ball wouldn't bounce as high, hot visiting locker rooms. All they know how to do up there is cheat!

That's game planning

 

[belljr]

I think the psi math is being done wrong.

I coach basketball and pumped up balls to the spec on the bal in 74 deg living room. I then left them in a trunk in weather not getting above 30 for 3 days and they barely lost any air

 

[parrot]

Blount had 6 fumbles on 426 carries with Tampa, or one every 71 carries.

He has 3 fumbles with the Pats on 213 carries, or one every 71 carries.

He had 1 fumble on 65 carries with Pittsburgh.

Clearly there is something nefarious going on with New England.

well i mean there's always that 1 in 16,000 chance that the NE fumble rate is so far to the left of the bell curve by random chance as opposed to because of *something* the patriots are doing differently than the rest of the NFL.

Like stressing ball security and not hesitating to bench their starting RB for half the year when he has a couple fumbles? But no, it's probably the ball pressure.

surely at least one of the other 31 teams stresses not fumbling.

Sure they do. In fact if you go back over the most recent five year period, New England was #1 in only one of those 5 years. They are just consistently better at it than most teams.

 

[captain_amazing]

Has there been any reference to this yet?

http://youtu.be/pJC7SJrJN8c

 

[ragnarok628]

Blount had 6 fumbles on 426 carries with Tampa, or one every 71 carries.

He has 3 fumbles with the Pats on 213 carries, or one every 71 carries.

He had 1 fumble on 65 carries with Pittsburgh.

Clearly there is something nefarious going on with New England.

well i mean there's always that 1 in 16,000 chance that the NE fumble rate is so far to the left of the bell curve by random chance as opposed to because of *something* the patriots are doing differently than the rest of the NFL.

Like stressing ball security and not hesitating to bench their starting RB for half the year when he has a couple fumbles? But no, it's probably the ball pressure.

Or the fact that they focus on the pass game more than the run game?

in the first place the patriots run/pass ratio is not out of whack with the rest of the league, certainly doesn't explain the large disparity. in the second place, receivers fumble the ball too, so you would still expect the numbers to fall into a similar range as everyone else even if the team ran the football considerably less than average. you certainly wouldn't expect it to be off the map like it is.

 

[ragnarok628]

Ask Stevan Ridley why the Patriots don't fumble much.

BenJarvus Green-ellis might be a good guy to ask too.0 fumbles in 536 touches as a Patriot, 5 fumbles in 524 touches as a Bengal.

959 touches in college, wait for it ... 0 fumbles. Now what?

Obviously, his college played with under-inflated balls too.

as someone already said, the ball is different. don't know how much difference that makes, but a cursory look at fumbles per game statistics for the top 32 ranked NCAA teams compared to fumbles per game for NFL, NFL does have a slightly higher rate on average.

ETA: for clarity, there are more fumbles per game on average in the NFL which may support the idea that a football that is easier to grip is less likely to be fumbled.

Or, the biggest and best defenders are in the NFL, they're coached specifically to attack the football, and are more likely to cause fumbles.

um. wat? the patriots defense does not enter into this at all.

 

[Slider]

Brady's presser was pathetic. Like a lawyer drew it up. If he came off as genuine to you I have a bridge for sale.

 

[Old Smiley]

"in the first place the patriots run/pass ratio is not out of whack with the rest of the league"

And what do you know? Neither is their fumble rate. They were second to the Jags this year but they were ninth worst the year before. There is no "large disparity". This is getting dumb now.

 

[Road Warriors]

Ask Stevan Ridley why the Patriots don't fumble much.

BenJarvus Green-ellis might be a good guy to ask too.0 fumbles in 536 touches as a Patriot, 5 fumbles in 524 touches as a Bengal.

959 touches in college, wait for it ... 0 fumbles. Now what?

Obviously, his college played with under-inflated balls too.

as someone already said, the ball is different. don't know how much difference that makes, but a cursory look at fumbles per game statistics for the top 32 ranked NCAA teams compared to fumbles per game for NFL, NFL does have a slightly higher rate on average.

ETA: for clarity, there are more fumbles per game on average in the NFL which may support the idea that a football that is easier to grip is less likely to be fumbled.

Or, the biggest and best defenders are in the NFL, they're coached specifically to attack the football, and are more likely to cause fumbles.

um. wat? the patriots defense does not enter into this at all.

See bolded. Hint: its comparing the NCAA and NFL fumble rates.

 

[ragnarok628]

Ask Stevan Ridley why the Patriots don't fumble much.

BenJarvus Green-ellis might be a good guy to ask too.0 fumbles in 536 touches as a Patriot, 5 fumbles in 524 touches as a Bengal.

959 touches in college, wait for it ... 0 fumbles. Now what?

Obviously, his college played with under-inflated balls too.

as someone already said, the ball is different. don't know how much difference that makes, but a cursory look at fumbles per game statistics for the top 32 ranked NCAA teams compared to fumbles per game for NFL, NFL does have a slightly higher rate on average.

ETA: for clarity, there are more fumbles per game on average in the NFL which may support the idea that a football that is easier to grip is less likely to be fumbled.

Or, the biggest and best defenders are in the NFL, they're coached specifically to attack the football, and are more likely to cause fumbles.

um. wat? the patriots defense does not enter into this at all.

See bolded. Hint: its comparing the NCAA and NFL fumble rates.

you're right, sorry. was reading too fast through the quoted stuff.

 

[Niles Standish]

Blount had 6 fumbles on 426 carries with Tampa, or one every 71 carries.

He has 3 fumbles with the Pats on 213 carries, or one every 71 carries.

He had 1 fumble on 65 carries with Pittsburgh.

Clearly there is something nefarious going on with New England.

well i mean there's always that 1 in 16,000 chance that the NE fumble rate is so far to the left of the bell curve by random chance as opposed to because of *something* the patriots are doing differently than the rest of the NFL.

Like stressing ball security and not hesitating to bench their starting RB for half the year when he has a couple fumbles? But no, it's probably the ball pressure.

surely at least one of the other 31 teams stresses not fumbling.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/fumbles-per-game

New England has had the least amount of fumbles 2 of the last 12 years. So have Indy and Carolina.

I know that's an arbitrary amount of time but that's as far back as NFL.com goes.

 

[flapgreen]

Tom couldn't tell the difference. Riiiiiiight

 

[Niles Standish]

Blount had 6 fumbles on 426 carries with Tampa, or one every 71 carries.

He has 3 fumbles with the Pats on 213 carries, or one every 71 carries.

He had 1 fumble on 65 carries with Pittsburgh.

Clearly there is something nefarious going on with New England.

well i mean there's always that 1 in 16,000 chance that the NE fumble rate is so far to the left of the bell curve by random chance as opposed to because of *something* the patriots are doing differently than the rest of the NFL.

Where does this number come from? Looking at the nfl site they don't look out of whack at all year to year. Usually one of the better teams but not the best.

 

[cstu]

The other possibilities are the Pats have only done it a short time or the refs aren't very competent.

Or they only do it for cold games when it's needed.

 

[Niles Standish]

The other possibilities are the Pats have only done it a short time or the refs aren't very competent.

Or they only do it for cold games when it's needed.

Like in the dome at Indy?

 

[devouredbychaos]

I'm beginning to think the Patriots are up to something

Welcome to the legacy bonfire.

Might as well throw the Colts into the mix too. Piping in artificial crowd noise, purposely cranking the heat up in the RCA dome, and let's not forget intentionally losing so they could draft Luck. You can't argue another team is cheating when your own team has done it themselves.

You're embarrassing yourself, quit it.

The only person who's embarrassing themselves is you and every other single salty hater in this thread. The NFL hasn't even confirmed that 11 out of 12 balls were underinflated, yet for some reason you're believing Mortenson..who's been wrong in the past. Talk about embarrassing!

ok, you're the one rooting for a cheating organization and the perception is nationwide. The Patriots will forever be tarnished in the yes of the public (minus the Northeast) and again, this is forever.

You mean the Patriots will forever be tarnished in the eyes of a select few haters on a fantasy football forum, Jets/Colts/Ravens fans, and the few "salty haters" in the NFL media such as Brunnel and Bettis..and they're all basing these cheating claims off Mortensons word, lol.

 

[Run It Up]

The other possibilities are the Pats have only done it a short time or the refs aren't very competent.

Or they only do it for cold games when it's needed.

Or, the refs literally never check because its a literal non-issue.

Literally.

 

[randall146]

i've read the phrase 'salty hater' more times in this thread than the whole rest of my life combined times ten. Can't you delusional sycophants at least mix it up? let's get some "bitter losers" and maybe some "jealous <insert team> fans" thrown in. you know, mix it up?

I was just about to mention this. Is salty a newly popularized phrase? If "salty _____" and "butthurt" disappeared from our language tomorrow that'd be a-ok with me.

 

[msudaisy26]

Brady's presser was pathetic. Like a lawyer drew it up. If he came off as genuine to you I have a bridge for sale.

Why are their so many bridges for sale in this thread?

 

[shader]

The other possibilities are the Pats have only done it a short time or the refs aren't very competent.

Or they only do it for cold games when it's needed.

Or, the refs literally never check because its a literal non-issue.Literally.

If this were true, you'd think the NFL would come out and defend a mega star instead of letting him flop around in the wind against a media that has decided to take a stand against ball deflation.

 

[[icon]]

I'm calling cover-up

Nooooo ####, really?!! :lol;

We all knew this was coming from the moment you first posted in the thread... Absent some fantasyland suspension / picks package that was never, ever going to be handed down.

 

[[icon]]

Brady's presser was pathetic. Like a lawyer drew it up. If he came off as genuine to you I have a bridge for sale.

Why are their so many bridges for sale in this thread?

The truthers aren't particularly creative?

OCCUPY BALL STREET!!

 

[satch]

Has it been proven that the psi of the Patriots footballs were physically tested by a ref using a gauge before the game? Does the ref keep a log of this?