What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Patriots being investigated after Colts game (6 Viewers)

Percent of NFL teams actively trying to steal play sheets?

  • 0%

    Votes: 90 33.0%
  • 25%

    Votes: 91 33.3%
  • 50%

    Votes: 19 7.0%
  • 75%

    Votes: 16 5.9%
  • 100%

    Votes: 57 20.9%

  • Total voters
    273
I'll admit I was getting nervous about 24 hours ago, but this is getting sad for the salty haters.

Belichick coming out with an impromptu press conference and basically says "Science mother####ers!" and drops the mic, all without cracking a single smile when he says that he's felt dozens of balls this week and how it's all about getting the sensation of the balls right.

There's no way he gives that presser if he thinks the NFL has anything to go on. The NFL knows the NFL has nothing to go on. Standard PR move - promise a thorough investigation, and watch everyone get bored. A week after the SB there will be a footnote about the report finding now evidence of any wrong doing.

But weird, I bet this thread gets 20 more pages based on salty hatred.

Choooo chooooo
This is almost comical though. When the NFL made their statements earlier, all the Pats fans here were killing them, asking for specifics associated with the step by step actions that were taken. The NFL saying the balls were inspected wasn't good enough - the Pats fans wanted to see video, logs, the tools that were used, who was doing the testing etc.

Now Bill comes out and says he did his own testing and he's satisfied with the results and the Pats fans to a one are going - that works for me! Good job Bill!

Pats fans hear what they want to hear, just like non-Pats fans hear what they want to hear.
Are you freaking serious?...Bellichick ran some quick simulations to try to get an explanation as to the PSI drop. Now you wanted him to write up a lab report? You do realize the burden is on the NFL to prove something, Bill knows they have squat, and don't you think he has more important tghings to prepare for. Give it a rest people..you are acting like children....
He really can do no wrong for you can he?

:lmao:
God i hate that effing laughing emoticon when people use it when they have no argument.
Seriously? What argument is being made here? Just pointing out each side wants to believe what they want to believe and are willing to take less proof from those supporting their position. The player proved that very quickly with his response.
 
This is hard but I'm going to play devil's advocate.

What if what Bill describes as their process is exactly what the league is charging them with. Some sort of "rubbing" process raises the temperature by X amount, and therefore the pressure by one pound psi. Then they give the balls to the officials and tell them to inflate the balls to 12.5 knowing that it's going to drop around 1.5 pounds.

What if that is exactly what the complaint is?

 
This reminds me George W Bush giving that speech with the "Mission Accomplished" sign behind him.

He conveniently doesn't mention how they adjust the texture of the ball, but there sure as hell isn't someone who's going to rub the footballs enough to increase the PSI by a full pound. And if they didn't use a dryer like Bill said, I'm guess there is still going to be plenty of info yet to come.

The NFL did whatever measurements they did and saw enough cause to launch an investigation run by the same guy who did the Richie Incognito stuff. This won't be going away just because a convicted cheater talks about their own internal "testing."

 
This is hard but I'm going to play devil's advocate.

What if what Bill describes as their process is exactly what the league is charging them with. Some sort of "rubbing" process raises the temperature by X amount, and therefore the pressure by one pound psi. Then they give the balls to the officials and tell them to inflate the balls to 12.5 knowing that it's going to drop around 1.5 pounds.

What if that is exactly what the complaint is?
So now you can't rub the balls?

 
This reminds me George W Bush giving that speech with the "Mission Accomplished" sign behind him.

He conveniently doesn't mention how they adjust the texture of the ball, but there sure as hell isn't someone who's going to rub the footballs enough to increase the PSI by a full pound. And if they didn't use a dryer like Bill said, I'm guess there is still going to be plenty of info yet to come.

The NFL did whatever measurements they did and saw enough cause to launch an investigation run by the same guy who did the Richie Incognito stuff. This won't be going away just because a convicted cheater talks about their own internal "testing."
Convicted cheater?? :lmao:

How can a guy who's a Steelers fan talk about another team cheating? Your team is the definition of cheaters.

Stop being a salty hater and just accept the fact that it's over :)

 
This is hard but I'm going to play devil's advocate.

What if what Bill describes as their process is exactly what the league is charging them with. Some sort of "rubbing" process raises the temperature by X amount, and therefore the pressure by one pound psi. Then they give the balls to the officials and tell them to inflate the balls to 12.5 knowing that it's going to drop around 1.5 pounds.

What if that is exactly what the complaint is?
If NE knew that their process was going to drop the psi below the allowable standard, that would be a problem. But from what Belichick said, they were just roughing them up, which everyone agrees is legal, and they it just now turned out that it caused their psi to be artificially high. That's completely different IMO.

 
Unless the NFL comes out with some compelling evidence quickly, this thing is over. What Belichik did today was slap a beat down on the NFL and the media the likes of which I've never seen. If this were a prize fight the refs would have stepped in and put a stop to it.

The NFL has knowingly allowed a franchise, a fan base, it's greatest coach, and maybe it's greatest quarterback - to be dragged through the mud for 6 days while they should be preparing for a Superbowl. After what Belichik did today, Goodell has to respond with something. The fact that he hasn't seems to point to what I've suspected all along - that the NFL has nothing here, and that once again Roger Goodell is showing how incompetent and incapable he is - hopefully for the last time.
The NFL made a statement that laid out what they are doing. They are investigating and will issue a statement once that investigation is done. Why would that change based on Belichcik's press conference , even if he was telling the truth? If this was a criminal prosecution would the district attorney's office just say "fine" if the defense attorney held a press conference? That makes no sense.

I don't think they will bother any of the Patriots during this week. They'll let them prepare for the game.

 
There is no way that Bob Kraft lets Belichick do that presser unless he was 100% convinced that the Pats did nothing wrong. Unless the NFL can find a smoking gun, they owe the Pats a pretty big apology for all of this.
If the NE balls were underinflated while the Indy balls were fully-inflated, that is the proverbial smoking gun. Assuming those reports are true, we know somebody in the organization was cheating. All that's left to be determined is who, how and what should be done about it.
You know, your right. All evidence points to elements causing a drop in psi. The fact the Colts balls stayed steady throughout the process must indicate they illegally inflated their balls pre-halftime inspection, knowing it was coming.Good job, you cracked it!
In the spirit of the BB presser<mycousinvinnie>

So the Colts balls didn't drop in pressure despite the drop in temperature? Do the Colts use MAGIC BALLS? Are the laws of physics suspended on the Colts sideline!!??

</mycousinvinnie>
That is what the Pats would like you to believe. But Belechick says it's over though, so I guess it's over.

 
This reminds me George W Bush giving that speech with the "Mission Accomplished" sign behind him.

He conveniently doesn't mention how they adjust the texture of the ball, but there sure as hell isn't someone who's going to rub the footballs enough to increase the PSI by a full pound. And if they didn't use a dryer like Bill said, I'm guess there is still going to be plenty of info yet to come.

The NFL did whatever measurements they did and saw enough cause to launch an investigation run by the same guy who did the Richie Incognito stuff. This won't be going away just because a convicted cheater talks about their own internal "testing."
and no other team prepares footballs?..not to mention weather conditions along can drop the PSI 1.5. There have been multiple simulations posted..I guess some would rather not even look because it might prove how freaken ridiculous this all is. Haters gonna hate. Sucks to be so jealous and envious.

 
People accuse Belichick of a lot of things. But you rarely hear anyone call him dumb. I doubt he would have had that press conference if he thought the NFL had anything. If there's even a chance they have anything he's making a really really dumb move. Because he doesn't have to say anything. He already made his typical statement and media mostly believed him (unlike Brady).

I'd be shocked if any evidence at all comes out. Belichick was just too confident.

 
This is hard but I'm going to play devil's advocate.

What if what Bill describes as their process is exactly what the league is charging them with. Some sort of "rubbing" process raises the temperature by X amount, and therefore the pressure by one pound psi. Then they give the balls to the officials and tell them to inflate the balls to 12.5 knowing that it's going to drop around 1.5 pounds.

What if that is exactly what the complaint is?
Have you read the rule?
 
This reminds me George W Bush giving that speech with the "Mission Accomplished" sign behind him.

He conveniently doesn't mention how they adjust the texture of the ball, but there sure as hell isn't someone who's going to rub the footballs enough to increase the PSI by a full pound. And if they didn't use a dryer like Bill said, I'm guess there is still going to be plenty of info yet to come.

The NFL did whatever measurements they did and saw enough cause to launch an investigation run by the same guy who did the Richie Incognito stuff. This won't be going away just because a convicted cheater talks about their own internal "testing."
Have you seen what Eli Manning does to his footballs?By the way, shouldn't the Steelers and their fans be laying a little low right now?

 
This reminds me George W Bush giving that speech with the "Mission Accomplished" sign behind him.

He conveniently doesn't mention how they adjust the texture of the ball, but there sure as hell isn't someone who's going to rub the footballs enough to increase the PSI by a full pound. And if they didn't use a dryer like Bill said, I'm guess there is still going to be plenty of info yet to come.

The NFL did whatever measurements they did and saw enough cause to launch an investigation run by the same guy who did the Richie Incognito stuff. This won't be going away just because a convicted cheater talks about their own internal "testing."
Convicted cheater?? :lmao:

How can a guy who's a Steelers fan talk about another team cheating? Your team is the definition of cheaters.

Stop being a salty hater and just accept the fact that it's over :)
Seriously.

Every single Steeler super bowl was driven by steroids.

Should be wiped from the record books.

And we are hear talking about deflated balls.

Go away

 
This is hard but I'm going to play devil's advocate.

What if what Bill describes as their process is exactly what the league is charging them with. Some sort of "rubbing" process raises the temperature by X amount, and therefore the pressure by one pound psi. Then they give the balls to the officials and tell them to inflate the balls to 12.5 knowing that it's going to drop around 1.5 pounds.

What if that is exactly what the complaint is?
If NE knew that their process was going to drop the psi below the allowable standard, that would be a problem. But from what Belichick said, they were just roughing them up, which everyone agrees is legal, and they it just now turned out that it caused their psi to be artificially high. That's completely different IMO.
Bill also said today that when the balls are submitted to the refs, they tell the refs to inflate them to 12.5.
 
This reminds me George W Bush giving that speech with the "Mission Accomplished" sign behind him.

He conveniently doesn't mention how they adjust the texture of the ball, but there sure as hell isn't someone who's going to rub the footballs enough to increase the PSI by a full pound. And if they didn't use a dryer like Bill said, I'm guess there is still going to be plenty of info yet to come.

The NFL did whatever measurements they did and saw enough cause to launch an investigation run by the same guy who did the Richie Incognito stuff. This won't be going away just because a convicted cheater talks about their own internal "testing."
Have you seen what Eli Manning does to his footballs?By the way, shouldn't the Steelers and their fans be laying a little low right now?
I guess having a rapist as a QB is not quite as bad as having a QB who rubs up his balls too much.

 
This is hard but I'm going to play devil's advocate.

What if what Bill describes as their process is exactly what the league is charging them with. Some sort of "rubbing" process raises the temperature by X amount, and therefore the pressure by one pound psi. Then they give the balls to the officials and tell them to inflate the balls to 12.5 knowing that it's going to drop around 1.5 pounds.

What if that is exactly what the complaint is?
Have you read the rule?
Yeah, but what if they're 100% following the rule and yet 100% subverting the rule at the same time. Is the "rubbing" process intended to get the texture just so, or to gain that pound of pressure. Which they know they'll get back. Then they tell the refs to put them to the minimun pressure by rule. And they get to play with a ball that's somewhere around a pound under.

 
Just to be clear the NFL has not made any accusations against the Patriots so not sure why the demand for apologies, the demand for them to now immediately refute what Bill said or to issue any kind of statement at all right now. A complaint was made to the league and they issued a statement that they would investigate an occurrence where it looked like a rule may have been broken. Isn't that their job?

They have not interfered with the Patriots prep time in anyway. The press conference weren't mandatory - last week - they were set up by the Pats.

Once again no one really knows what happened or what's going to happen. No one has won, no be has lost - yet every time some one makes a statement or some one issues a report one side starts claiming victory. Let's just see what happens and let this die for now.

 
This is hard but I'm going to play devil's advocate.

What if what Bill describes as their process is exactly what the league is charging them with. Some sort of "rubbing" process raises the temperature by X amount, and therefore the pressure by one pound psi. Then they give the balls to the officials and tell them to inflate the balls to 12.5 knowing that it's going to drop around 1.5 pounds.

What if that is exactly what the complaint is?
Have you read the rule?
Yeah, but what if they're 100% following the rule and yet 100% subverting the rule at the same time. Is the "rubbing" process intended to get the texture just so, or to gain that pound of pressure. Which they know they'll get back. Then they tell the refs to put them to the minimun pressure by rule. And they get to play with a ball that's somewhere around a pound under.
The patriots clearly spend more time preparing the balls then they do for the actual game.

You people baffle me.

 
This reminds me George W Bush giving that speech with the "Mission Accomplished" sign behind him.

He conveniently doesn't mention how they adjust the texture of the ball, but there sure as hell isn't someone who's going to rub the footballs enough to increase the PSI by a full pound. And if they didn't use a dryer like Bill said, I'm guess there is still going to be plenty of info yet to come.

The NFL did whatever measurements they did and saw enough cause to launch an investigation run by the same guy who did the Richie Incognito stuff. This won't be going away just because a convicted cheater talks about their own internal "testing."
Funny, this reminds me of Terry Bradshaw admitting how the Steelers cheated and how their fans want to try and deny it. Unlike the accusations against the pats, Terry's admission aint ever going away :yes:

 
People accuse Belichick of a lot of things. But you rarely hear anyone call him dumb.

I doubt he would have had that press conference if he thought the NFL had anything.
That means nothing. Going back to Richard Nixon, people who are guilty generally have no problem with publicly doubling down on their denials of wrong doing. For some more recent examples, see Lance Armstrong and Anthony Weiner. We have to wait and see how this plays out before drawing conclusions of exoneration.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Just to be clear the NFL has not made any accusations against the Patriots so not sure why the demand for apologies, the demand for them to now immediately refute what Bill said or to issue any kind of statement at all right now. A complaint was made to the league and they issued a statement that they would investigate an occurrence where it looked like a rule may have been broken. Isn't that their job?

They have not interfered with the Patriots prep time in anyway. The press conference weren't mandatory - last week - they were set up by the Pats.

Once again no one really knows what happened or what's going to happen. No one has won, no be has lost - yet every time some one makes a statement or some one issues a report one side starts claiming victory. Let's just see what happens and let this die for now.
I would disagree with that.

This is no doubt a distraction. These people are in the facility, interviewing, whatever.

Bill had to gather people together to conduct these tests. Wouldn't surprise me if they rounded up some MIT or Harvard professors.

Probably 24-48 hours of time not completely focused on game preparation.

 
People accuse Belichick of a lot of things. But you rarely hear anyone call him dumb.I doubt he would have had that press conference if he thought the NFL had anything.
That means nothing. Going back to Richard Nixon, people who are guilty generally have no problem with publicly doubling down on their denials of wrong doing. For some more recent examples, see Lance Armstrong and Anthony Weiner. We have to wait and see how this plays out before drawing conclusions of exoneration.
I think you missed my point. It would be very stupid to schedule a press conference and lie. Especially when people were already as much in Belichick's corner as could be expected. If it was Brady then possibly or Kraft. But Belichick just put his career on the line for no real benefit. And we're not talking about a guy who cares too much about being liked.

 
This is hard but I'm going to play devil's advocate.

What if what Bill describes as their process is exactly what the league is charging them with. Some sort of "rubbing" process raises the temperature by X amount, and therefore the pressure by one pound psi. Then they give the balls to the officials and tell them to inflate the balls to 12.5 knowing that it's going to drop around 1.5 pounds.

What if that is exactly what the complaint is?
Have you read the rule?
Yeah, but what if they're 100% following the rule and yet 100% subverting the rule at the same time. Is the "rubbing" process intended to get the texture just so, or to gain that pound of pressure. Which they know they'll get back. Then they tell the refs to put them to the minimun pressure by rule. And they get to play with a ball that's somewhere around a pound under.
The patriots clearly spend more time preparing the balls then they do for the actual game.

You people baffle me.
That's the thing. I'm not a you people. I'm a Pats fan. I hope it's not this. But if it is this, I almost can't decide if I love it or hate it.

 
Just to be clear the NFL has not made any accusations against the Patriots so not sure why the demand for apologies, the demand for them to now immediately refute what Bill said or to issue any kind of statement at all right now. A complaint was made to the league and they issued a statement that they would investigate an occurrence where it looked like a rule may have been broken. Isn't that their job?They have not interfered with the Patriots prep time in anyway. The press conference weren't mandatory - last week - they were set up by the Pats.

Once again no one really knows what happened or what's going to happen. No one has won, no be has lost - yet every time some one makes a statement or some one issues a report one side starts claiming victory. Let's just see what happens and let this die for now.
I would disagree with that.

This is no doubt a distraction. These people are in the facility, interviewing, whatever.

Bill had to gather people together to conduct these tests. Wouldn't surprise me if they rounded up some MIT or Harvard professors.

Probably 24-48 hours of time not completely focused on game preparation.
Yeah the Pats lost some prep time. But it's 2 weeks, it's a disadvantage. But not an impossible one. I think they'll be able to stay focused the next week.

Think of it like playing Seattle after their bye week.

 
This is hard but I'm going to play devil's advocate.

What if what Bill describes as their process is exactly what the league is charging them with. Some sort of "rubbing" process raises the temperature by X amount, and therefore the pressure by one pound psi. Then they give the balls to the officials and tell them to inflate the balls to 12.5 knowing that it's going to drop around 1.5 pounds.

What if that is exactly what the complaint is?
Have you read the rule?
Yeah, but what if they're 100% following the rule and yet 100% subverting the rule at the same time. Is the "rubbing" process intended to get the texture just so, or to gain that pound of pressure. Which they know they'll get back. Then they tell the refs to put them to the minimun pressure by rule. And they get to play with a ball that's somewhere around a pound under.
The patriots clearly spend more time preparing the balls then they do for the actual game.

You people baffle me.
That's the thing. I'm not a you people. I'm a Pats fan. I hope it's not this. But if it is this, I almost can't decide if I love it or hate it.
I think Bill stated that it isn't about the pressure. In fact, they had the QBs handle balls of different pressures and they couldn't tell the difference. It's all about the texture.

 
Just to be clear the NFL has not made any accusations against the Patriots so not sure why the demand for apologies, the demand for them to now immediately refute what Bill said or to issue any kind of statement at all right now. A complaint was made to the league and they issued a statement that they would investigate an occurrence where it looked like a rule may have been broken. Isn't that their job?They have not interfered with the Patriots prep time in anyway. The press conference weren't mandatory - last week - they were set up by the Pats.

Once again no one really knows what happened or what's going to happen. No one has won, no be has lost - yet every time some one makes a statement or some one issues a report one side starts claiming victory. Let's just see what happens and let this die for now.
I would disagree with that.

This is no doubt a distraction. These people are in the facility, interviewing, whatever.

Bill had to gather people together to conduct these tests. Wouldn't surprise me if they rounded up some MIT or Harvard professors.

Probably 24-48 hours of time not completely focused on game preparation.
Yeah the Pats lost some prep time. But it's 2 weeks, it's a disadvantage. But not an impossible one. I think they'll be able to stay focused the next week.

Think of it like playing Seattle after their bye week.
I'd agree with that.

But hell, that takes time away from finding new loopholes in the rulebook.

Lol.

 
Belichick did this because when the accusations of the taped Rams walkthrough came during SB week before, he kept mum (the equivalent of "we're onto NY") and I think regretted it.

 
fun article, see graph at end:

http://www.advancedfootballanalytics.com/index.php/home/research/general/224-the-patriots-have-great-ball-security

nefumratesbyyr_zps6739163e.png


 
Last edited by a moderator:
Watching Bill dismantle the accusations all i could think of was the movie 8 mile when eminem took all of papa ducks firepower away from him during that rap battle, essentially taking all of the NFL`s accusations and putting them on Rogers lap....that was perfect

 
It all sounds good and scientific Mr. Belichick, but why was 1 ball still within regulation?
For all we know the NFL may have leaked that they measured the balls and 11 were out of spec, without saying that they only measured 11 balls. I think I read somewhere that one of the balls was given away to a fan after a TD (Blount maybe?)

 
Last edited:
So The Patriots could spend hours researching this and doing physics experiments while simultaneously prepping for the SB and meanwhile the NFL offices can't find the time to talk to Brady or hold a presser of their own to at least explain what they were up to...what they general inquiry was..or how this originated?

This seems to me to perfectly showcase why one is the epitome of incompetence and the other is the winningest team of the past 15 years. Really quite extraordinary the diff between the two.

I really get the feeling that Goodell is spending more time lining up next year's schedule to ensure that there is a Sunday Indy-NE game and a Monday night Balt-NE game. What an ###-clown of a commish he is. Also, he may want to shore up some of the leaks in org!

 
One of the great things about science is you don't have to actually prove your experiments results, you can - and should provide your variables and how you performed your experiment and see if others can reproduce the results.

Since thats already been done, multiple times - suck it.
What did they do to heat the balls in the first place?

I missed that part.
He said they were never in a heated environment or under a heating element. He said they were prepared to Tom's specifications, saying it involved rubbing to the desired texture which resulted in a 1 psi increase, likely from heat created from the friction.
But if I wanted to recreate that for an experiment what exactly should I do?
Um . . . measure pressure, rub the ball for a while, measure pressure again? He was pretty clear about it

 
People accuse Belichick of a lot of things. But you rarely hear anyone call him dumb.

I doubt he would have had that press conference if he thought the NFL had anything.
That means nothing. Going back to Richard Nixon, people who are guilty generally have no problem with publicly doubling down on their denials of wrong doing. For some more recent examples, see Lance Armstrong and Anthony Weiner. We have to wait and see how this plays out before drawing conclusions of exoneration.
This wasn't just a denial, though. it was practically an alibi.

 
Keith Olbermann ‏@KeithOlbermann · 60m60 minutes ago

So I was away from the tv all day. Thursday, Belichick knew nothing about football inflation. Today he knows everything? #CSI/PSI #BallGhazi

Keith Olbermann ‏@KeithOlbermann · 59m59 minutes ago

Simple horrifying explanation: that was a substitute Belichick today. #CSI/PSI #Ballghazi #ManchurianCoachingCandidate

 
So The Patriots could spend hours researching this and doing physics experiments while simultaneously prepping for the SB and meanwhile the NFL offices can't find the time to talk to Brady or hold a presser of their own to at least explain what they were up to...what they general inquiry was..or how this originated?
I can just imagine being in the room the NFL Security folks reporting to Goodell on Wednesday or Thursday, not being able to provide any answers, then seeing Roger or one of his henchmen saying "screw it, you guys f--ed up the Ray Rice investigation, we're going to go hire an outside firm who can do this right."

 
One of the great things about science is you don't have to actually prove your experiments results, you can - and should provide your variables and how you performed your experiment and see if others can reproduce the results.

Since thats already been done, multiple times - suck it.
What did they do to heat the balls in the first place?I missed that part.
He said they were never in a heated environment or under a heating element. He said they were prepared to Tom's specifications, saying it involved rubbing to the desired texture which resulted in a 1 psi increase, likely from heat created from the friction.
But if I wanted to recreate that for an experiment what exactly should I do?
Um . . . measure pressure, rub the ball for a while, measure pressure again? He was pretty clear about it
yes, but how vigorously woul Bill like me to rub my balls?

 
Keith Olbermann ‏@KeithOlbermann · 60m60 minutes ago

So I was away from the tv all day. Thursday, Belichick knew nothing about football inflation. Today he knows everything? #CSI/PSI #BallGhazi

Keith Olbermann ‏@KeithOlbermann · 59m59 minutes ago

Simple horrifying explanation: that was a substitute Belichick today. #CSI/PSI #Ballghazi #ManchurianCoachingCandidate
Yep, he took it seriously enough to look into it and report their findings, you know, unlike the NFL.

 
Keith Olbermann ‏@KeithOlbermann · 60m60 minutes ago

So I was away from the tv all day. Thursday, Belichick knew nothing about football inflation. Today he knows everything? #CSI/PSI #BallGhazi

Keith Olbermann ‏@KeithOlbermann · 59m59 minutes ago

Simple horrifying explanation: that was a substitute Belichick today. #CSI/PSI #Ballghazi #ManchurianCoachingCandidate
Yep, he took it seriously enough to look into it and report their findings, you know, unlike the NFL.
The NFL completed its investigation?

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top