Patriots being investigated after Colts game (1 Viewer)

[Morton Muffley]

When you guys start acting smart and running your own calculations, I hope you realize how meaningless it is. If any of you think the refs accurately measure these balls down to the tenths of a decimal point....

Agreed, I have been arguing for days that there is no way the reefs were adequately measuring psi or any of the other required specs (length, weight, long circumference, short circumference, etc) for 24 footballs...ain't happening

It's funny how this has come full circle. I proposed this theory as well last week and I was excoriated for it.

This whole thread has come full circle more than once my friend...and that is both funny and sad (and occasionally infuriating, but I can't keep away from a debate in which I am 100% certain I am right and 90% certain I will be proven to be right -I am saving the other 10% for inconclusive evidence)

 

[General Tso]

The Pats prepare the balls and give them to the refs 2-2.5 hours prior to kickoff. The refs are charged with inspecting and approving the balls, and they then give them back to the teams about 10 minutes prior to kickoff.

My guess is that the Pats buff up the balls one last time before giving them to the refs. The refs probably inspect the balls sooner rather than later, so it's very conceivable that an increase in internal pressure from the buffing may not have come down to equilibrium when the refs do their inspection.

 

[Green and Gold]

THEY DID IT. What on earth is so hard to figure out about this?

If I were on a jury, I've seen/heard enough to vote "guilty". Brady was pretty obviously lying. Kraft's bravado seemed completely disingenuous. The fact is the balls were good at game time and not at halftime. Period.

You all bringing all this science bullcrap into this remind me of OJ's attorneys when they went out of their way to confuse the jury with nonsensical arguments about DNA and it's validity and they threw off the jury from looking at the most logical outcome - that he did in fact kill his ex wife. For real. The whole gas laws, blah blah blah reminds me exactly of the strategy his attorneys used.

But like then, I suspect it will work again when the most logical answer is that they did it, just like OJ did. I certainly am not comparing this to a murder, just the strategy.

Now imagine that all the information you had to base your decision on was whispered to you by a random guy on the street rather than testimony in the trial.

Huh? Not sure I follow.

None of the facts in this case so far can be verified, and in fact there are constantly conflicting reports. If you have made your mind up on what has happened already, you are either a Patriots fan who wants this story to be false or a Patriots hater who wants it to be true.A good method of self reflection is, if you are a Patriots fan, to imagine that the Giants were in this exact position (accused of underinflating footballs, possibly for years) and how you would act in this thread. And if you are someone who is convinced the Patriots did this, imagine how you would be acting in this thread if your favorite team were in this position.

If you can do that, you should be able to sympathize with the people you disagree with in this thread and maybe have a little bit less trolling.

I don't intend to troll. I'm not a hater, but definitely not a fan either. I think they did it for sure and I think all these people brining science into it are nuts. I wouldn't think that if the science were consistent, but people on both sides are finding science that supports their opinion. So I go back to what seems the most logical. The Pats deflated the balls. It just cracks me up to see Pats fans go out of their way to try to grasp onto science when it just seems to me they're doing just that - grasping. At least it feels that way when there's a bunch of science going the other way also.

If thr NFL comes out and says that the Patriots did nothing wrong, and that x y and z factors contributed to 1 lost psi, will you change your mind or remain convinced the Patriots cheated?

Last thing. I'd own it and say I was wrong. I may be a #### but I'm not that big of a ####.

I respect that. Hopefully Patriot fans (myself included) will do the same if they are found guilty.

 

[Run It Up]

Rams DE Chris Long's article on this bs:

Let’s get down to it: this story isn’t as much about air pressure as it is about the cult of the New England Patriots. The Patriots are really good at two things: winning football games and not giving a #### what you think about them. This modus operandi has earned the Patriots an equal number of fans and haters. One thing that drives people crazy is Belichick’s “less is more” school of media engagement. Media relations, after all, is a game. It involves three parties: the teams, the media and the fans. All three groups know it’s game, but if a player or a coach doesn’t play ball, people get pissed. Bill Belichick is not only a Hall of Fame coach, but he is also the undisputed heavyweight champion when it comes to flustering members of the media. I find it hard to believe Deflategate would be as big of a story without Belichick and Brady as the villains. Anybody heard about the recent Cleveland Browns texting allegations? I didn’t think so.

 

[T J]

tj is either a troll or not the sharpest tool in the shed

It's definitely not the "not the sharpest tool" option. I'm a pretty intelligent person believe it or not. So maybe it's trolling, but it's unintended. I expressed my take and got feedback I took issue with and responded. I disagree with the way a lot of you guys are looking at this. Sorry. I just do. I know that bothers a bunch of you but that's not my problem. Right now, we're dealing with opinions, not facts, and mine is every bit as valid as any other, as crazy as those others seem to me.

 

[Devine Intervention]

But don't the majority of teams scuff them? Couldn't you say this is the case for Indy as well? I guess we will find out.

 

[espnespn]

When you guys start acting smart and running your own calculations, I hope you realize how meaningless it is. If any of you think the refs accurately measure these balls down to the tenths of a decimal point....

Agreed, I have been arguing for days that there is no way the reefs were adequately measuring psi or any of the other required specs (length, weight, long circumference, short circumference, etc) for 24 footballs...ain't happening

It's funny how this has come full circle. I proposed this theory as well last week and I was excoriated for it.

This whole thread has come full circle more than once my friend...and that is both funny and sad (and occasionally infuriating, but I can't keep away from a debate in which I am 100% certain I am right and 90% certain I will be proven to be right -I am saving the other 10% for inconclusive evidence)

Despite all the Salty Haters who complain about the Patriots, I don't think anyone will care in about 20 years about Spygate or Deflategate.

Brady and Belichek are slam-dunk Hall of Famers. Nothing will change that.

The Steelers of the 70s openly admitted to using PEDs, and no one cares. Everyone seems to still love them.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Not sure how that happened. I'm trying to figure out how to delete them haha damn smart phone

not really a smart phone is it?

 

[Morton Muffley]

The Pats prepare the balls and give them to the refs 2-2.5 hours prior to kickoff. The refs are charged with inspecting and approving the balls, and they then give them back to the teams about 10 minutes prior to kickoff.

My guess is that the Pats buff up the balls one last time before giving them to the refs. The refs probably inspect the balls sooner rather than later, so it's very conceivable that an increase in internal pressure from the buffing may not have come down to equilibrium when the refs do their inspection.

I think it is highly unlikely that they are touching those balls once brady has approved them...and brady is likely NOT waiting for them to come hot (pun intended) off the assembly. As such, they are either submitting balls below the 12.5 psi spec because they are setting the pressure before they have returned to room temp equilibrium OR maybe the process unintentionally allows the balls to get to room temp equilibrium BEFORE they set the pressure. All depends on the process and how long it takes those balls to come to room temp equilibrium.

 

[The Kerminator]

The Pats prepare the balls and give them to the refs 2-2.5 hours prior to kickoff. The refs are charged with inspecting and approving the balls, and they then give them back to the teams about 10 minutes prior to kickoff.

My guess is that the Pats buff up the balls one last time before giving them to the refs. The refs probably inspect the balls sooner rather than later, so it's very conceivable that an increase in internal pressure from the buffing may not have come down to equilibrium when the refs do their inspection.

Why would they do that? You would think they are already buffed to Brady's liking. Why the last minute buffing?

My guess is they intentionally inflate the balls with hot air right before they give them to the refs, so it's very conceivable that an increase in internal pressure from the hot air may not have come down to equilibrium when the refs do their inspection. If they inspect them early, the balls artificially measure up to the required psi. If they measure them later, the Pats cover themselves by telling the refs to inflate them to 12.5 psi.

 

[General Tso]

Rams DE Chris Long's article on this bs:

Lets get down to it: this story isnt as much about air pressure as it is about the cult of the New England Patriots. The Patriots are really good at two things: winning football games and not giving a #### what you think about them. This modus operandi has earned the Patriots an equal number of fans and haters. One thing that drives people crazy is Belichicks less is more school of media engagement. Media relations, after all, is a game. It involves three parties: the teams, the media and the fans. All three groups know its game, but if a player or a coach doesnt play ball, people get pissed. Bill Belichick is not only a Hall of Fame coach, but he is also the undisputed heavyweight champion when it comes to flustering members of the media. I find it hard to believe Deflategate would be as big of a story without Belichick and Brady as the villains. Anybody heard about the recent Cleveland Browns texting allegations? I didnt think so.

It's a great point, albeit obvious and well known. Everyone knows people don't like Belichik's approach. But he got that way for a reason. He's a very smart man. He's probably learned over the years what we are all starting to see right now with the media. They aren't interested in what really matters, they are more about style than substance, and they always have an agenda - and it's usually not arriving at the truth. One of the things that makes Bill so great is is insistence on reducing distractions and keeping his players focused on football. Belichik is a great football coach. He's not a television personality, though. But as people are starting to see, he can be incredibly funny at times. He's an acquired taste, and I wish Anerica would get to see more of him away from those stupid weekly press conferences.

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

When you guys start acting smart and running your own calculations, I hope you realize how meaningless it is. If any of you think the refs accurately measure these balls down to the tenths of a decimal point....

Agreed, I have been arguing for days that there is no way the reefs were adequately measuring psi or any of the other required specs (length, weight, long circumference, short circumference, etc) for 24 footballs...ain't happening

It's funny how this has come full circle. I proposed this theory as well last week and I was excoriated for it.

This whole thread has come full circle more than once my friend...and that is both funny and sad (and occasionally infuriating, but I can't keep away from a debate in which I am 100% certain I am right and 90% certain I will be proven to be right -I am saving the other 10% for inconclusive evidence)

Despite all the Salty Haters who complain about the Patriots, I don't think anyone will care in about 20 years about Spygate or Deflategate.

Brady and Belichek are slam-dunk Hall of Famers. Nothing will change that.

The Steelers of the 70s openly admitted to using PEDs, and no one cares. Everyone seems to still love them.

I do think BB & TB will be found innocent, but I agree and for good measure, Bradshaw bragged about doing far worse (imho) with the footballs so Steeler fans can check their faux outrage at the door afaic.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

THEY DID IT. What on earth is so hard to figure out about this?

If I were on a jury, I've seen/heard enough to vote "guilty". Brady was pretty obviously lying. Kraft's bravado seemed completely disingenuous. The fact is the balls were good at game time and not at halftime. Period.

You all bringing all this science bullcrap into this remind me of OJ's attorneys when they went out of their way to confuse the jury with nonsensical arguments about DNA and it's validity and they threw off the jury from looking at the most logical outcome - that he did in fact kill his ex wife. For real. The whole gas laws, blah blah blah reminds me exactly of the strategy his attorneys used.

But like then, I suspect it will work again when the most logical answer is that they did it, just like OJ did. I certainly am not comparing this to a murder, just the strategy.

Now imagine that all the information you had to base your decision on was whispered to you by a random guy on the street rather than testimony in the trial.

Huh? Not sure I follow.

None of the facts in this case so far can be verified, and in fact there are constantly conflicting reports. If you have made your mind up on what has happened already, you are either a Patriots fan who wants this story to be false or a Patriots hater who wants it to be true.A good method of self reflection is, if you are a Patriots fan, to imagine that the Giants were in this exact position (accused of underinflating footballs, possibly for years) and how you would act in this thread. And if you are someone who is convinced the Patriots did this, imagine how you would be acting in this thread if your favorite team were in this position.

If you can do that, you should be able to sympathize with the people you disagree with in this thread and maybe have a little bit less trolling.

I don't intend to troll. I'm not a hater, but definitely not a fan either. I think they did it for sure and I think all these people brining science into it are nuts. I wouldn't think that if the science were consistent, but people on both sides are finding science that supports their opinion. So I go back to what seems the most logical. The Pats deflated the balls. It just cracks me up to see Pats fans go out of their way to try to grasp onto science when it just seems to me they're doing just that - grasping. At least it feels that way when there's a bunch of science going the other way also.

If thr NFL comes out and says that the Patriots did nothing wrong, and that x y and z factors contributed to 1 lost psi, will you change your mind or remain convinced the Patriots cheated?

Last thing. I'd own it and say I was wrong. I may be a #### but I'm not that big of a ####.

I respect that. Hopefully Patriot fans (myself included) will do the same if they are found guilty.

When you’re right, no one remembers. When you’re wrong, no one forgets...remember that

 

[General Tso]

When you guys start acting smart and running your own calculations, I hope you realize how meaningless it is. If any of you think the refs accurately measure these balls down to the tenths of a decimal point....

Agreed, I have been arguing for days that there is no way the reefs were adequately measuring psi or any of the other required specs (length, weight, long circumference, short circumference, etc) for 24 footballs...ain't happening

It's funny how this has come full circle. I proposed this theory as well last week and I was excoriated for it.

This whole thread has come full circle more than once my friend...and that is both funny and sad (and occasionally infuriating, but I can't keep away from a debate in which I am 100% certain I am right and 90% certain I will be proven to be right -I am saving the other 10% for inconclusive evidence)

Despite all the Salty Haters who complain about the Patriots, I don't think anyone will care in about 20 years about Spygate or Deflategate.

Brady and Belichek are slam-dunk Hall of Famers. Nothing will change that.

The Steelers of the 70s openly admitted to using PEDs, and no one cares. Everyone seems to still love them.

Different time. First came Pete Rose, then the steroids scandal. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if this stupid "scandal" ends up costing Brady and Belichik their well deserved seats in the HOF.

 

[amnesiac]

The Pats prepare the balls and give them to the refs 2-2.5 hours prior to kickoff. The refs are charged with inspecting and approving the balls, and they then give them back to the teams about 10 minutes prior to kickoff.

My guess is that the Pats buff up the balls one last time before giving them to the refs. The refs probably inspect the balls sooner rather than later, so it's very conceivable that an increase in internal pressure from the buffing may not have come down to equilibrium when the refs do their inspection.

Why would they do that? You would think they are already buffed to Brady's liking. Why the last minute buffing?

My guess is they intentionally inflate the balls with hot air right before they give them to the refs, so it's very conceivable that an increase in internal pressure from the hot air may not have come down to equilibrium when the refs do their inspection. If they inspect them early, the balls artificially measure up to the required psi. If they measure them later, the Pats cover themselves by telling the refs to inflate them to 12.5 psi.

of course that's what happens. what's the problem?

 

[BustedKnuckles]

When you guys start acting smart and running your own calculations, I hope you realize how meaningless it is. If any of you think the refs accurately measure these balls down to the tenths of a decimal point....

Agreed, I have been arguing for days that there is no way the reefs were adequately measuring psi or any of the other required specs (length, weight, long circumference, short circumference, etc) for 24 footballs...ain't happening

It's funny how this has come full circle. I proposed this theory as well last week and I was excoriated for it.

This whole thread has come full circle more than once my friend...and that is both funny and sad (and occasionally infuriating, but I can't keep away from a debate in which I am 100% certain I am right and 90% certain I will be proven to be right -I am saving the other 10% for inconclusive evidence)

Despite all the Salty Haters who complain about the Patriots, I don't think anyone will care in about 20 years about Spygate or Deflategate.

Brady and Belichek are slam-dunk Hall of Famers. Nothing will change that.

The Steelers of the 70s openly admitted to using PEDs, and no one cares. Everyone seems to still love them.

Different time. First came Pete Rose, then the steroids scandal. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if this stupid "scandal" ends up costing Brady and Belichik their well deserved seats in the HOF.

wanna laugh at BB last press conference??

 

[mbuehner]

Christ- this wasnt a sting and the refs didnt meter the balls pregame cuz they never do. The Colts were planning on challenging the balls, they did near halftime, the refs dug the meters out of the bottom of their bags, found them a pound and change off, swapped them with the backups and thats it.

 

[12punch]

Why are we still talking about this? I thought it was over when BB dropped the mic on Saturday.

fbg is like a breeding ground for salty trolls

 

[amnesiac]

The Pats prepare the balls and give them to the refs 2-2.5 hours prior to kickoff. The refs are charged with inspecting and approving the balls, and they then give them back to the teams about 10 minutes prior to kickoff.

My guess is that the Pats buff up the balls one last time before giving them to the refs. The refs probably inspect the balls sooner rather than later, so it's very conceivable that an increase in internal pressure from the buffing may not have come down to equilibrium when the refs do their inspection.

Why would they do that? You would think they are already buffed to Brady's liking. Why the last minute buffing?

My guess is they intentionally inflate the balls with hot air right before they give them to the refs, so it's very conceivable that an increase in internal pressure from the hot air may not have come down to equilibrium when the refs do their inspection. If they inspect them early, the balls artificially measure up to the required psi. If they measure them later, the Pats cover themselves by telling the refs to inflate them to 12.5 psi.

of course that's what happens. what's the problem?

oh, and they also heat it up enough so that they make the refs take air out of the balls if they bother to measure the psi, further deflating them. and it's all within the rules.

i really don't understand what the problem is.

 

[General Tso]

The Pats prepare the balls and give them to the refs 2-2.5 hours prior to kickoff. The refs are charged with inspecting and approving the balls, and they then give them back to the teams about 10 minutes prior to kickoff.

My guess is that the Pats buff up the balls one last time before giving them to the refs. The refs probably inspect the balls sooner rather than later, so it's very conceivable that an increase in internal pressure from the buffing may not have come down to equilibrium when the refs do their inspection.

Why would they do that? You would think they are already buffed to Brady's liking. Why the last minute buffing?

My guess is they intentionally inflate the balls with hot air right before they give them to the refs, so it's very conceivable that an increase in internal pressure from the hot air may not have come down to equilibrium when the refs do their inspection. If they inspect them early, the balls artificially measure up to the required psi. If they measure them later, the Pats cover themselves by telling the refs to inflate them to 12.5 psi.

It's possible, though Belchik specifically said they didn't use any heaters. We'll have to wait and see.

 

[12punch]

Why are we still talking about this? I thought it was over when BB dropped the mic on Saturday.

It was until the flat earth crowd came at us with pitchforks demanding that the earth placed back at the center of the universe

^^

 

[The Kerminator]

The Pats prepare the balls and give them to the refs 2-2.5 hours prior to kickoff. The refs are charged with inspecting and approving the balls, and they then give them back to the teams about 10 minutes prior to kickoff.

My guess is that the Pats buff up the balls one last time before giving them to the refs. The refs probably inspect the balls sooner rather than later, so it's very conceivable that an increase in internal pressure from the buffing may not have come down to equilibrium when the refs do their inspection.

Why would they do that? You would think they are already buffed to Brady's liking. Why the last minute buffing?

My guess is they intentionally inflate the balls with hot air right before they give them to the refs, so it's very conceivable that an increase in internal pressure from the hot air may not have come down to equilibrium when the refs do their inspection. If they inspect them early, the balls artificially measure up to the required psi. If they measure them later, the Pats cover themselves by telling the refs to inflate them to 12.5 psi.

of course that's what happens.what's the problem?

oh, and they also heat it up enough so that they make the refs take air out of the balls if they bother to measure the psi, further deflating them.and it's all within the rules.

i really don't understand what the problem is.

Maybe. Maybe not. But either way it further tarnishes their image. And Bill stated in his press conference that they never do anything that crosses or even approaches the line.

 

[The Kerminator]

The Pats prepare the balls and give them to the refs 2-2.5 hours prior to kickoff. The refs are charged with inspecting and approving the balls, and they then give them back to the teams about 10 minutes prior to kickoff.

My guess is that the Pats buff up the balls one last time before giving them to the refs. The refs probably inspect the balls sooner rather than later, so it's very conceivable that an increase in internal pressure from the buffing may not have come down to equilibrium when the refs do their inspection.

Why would they do that? You would think they are already buffed to Brady's liking. Why the last minute buffing?

My guess is they intentionally inflate the balls with hot air right before they give them to the refs, so it's very conceivable that an increase in internal pressure from the hot air may not have come down to equilibrium when the refs do their inspection. If they inspect them early, the balls artificially measure up to the required psi. If they measure them later, the Pats cover themselves by telling the refs to inflate them to 12.5 psi.

It's possible, though Belchik specifically said they didn't use any heaters. We'll have to wait and see.

At this point, anything is possible, including alien intervention. We'll have to wait and see.

 

[Road Warriors]

Alternately, it appears that smart labs is making a case that a wet ball will expand and thus the psi will decrease in the process so there is that possibility as well, but BB clearly stated that their ball prep process raised the psi by 1 so that is where I would start if I were the nfl. But then gain, I probably would have contacted brady so wtf do I know (sarcasm alert)!

Here's the problem of the 1 psi rubbing theory: it assumes the pats rubbed their balls immediately before delivering to the refs at precicely 2:15 before kickoff. Does that make sense to anyone? If you were the equipment manager for the Pats, in charge of delivering game balls for the biggest game of the season, would you wait until the exact last minute?I wouldn't. I'd have it done a few days early to give Mr. Brady a chance to feel my balls in advance, just to make sure they were to his liking. That's just me though.

If the balls were rubbed more than an hour prior to ball inspection, they likely would have acclimated to room temp, which means that 1 psi is still unaccounted for.

They were instructed to inflate them to 12.5 psi. If they did that before the balls had reached equilibrium they would be underinflated before even touching the field. Which combined with the 1.8-1.9 psi drop attributed to the elements more than accounts for this.

Exactly. Does it stand to reason that the balls had not yet reached equilibrium? I don't think it does.

Its only unaccounted for if the balls are 2 psi underinflated. If the Florio source is correct, and the ball was closer to 1 psi under, the science holds pretty well, even with the ball prep coming to equilibrium.

The science holds, regardless. No amount of ball-handling can beat the laws of nature. Don't look at Florio's article as the primary Evidence that some science you like supports, look at the science first and find the narrative to support that.

I agree with you, I think. The science is the science. Given the known conditions, and ignoring any ball prep variations, the science indicates the ball would lose approximately 1 psi. I think you've stated this, as well.

The Florio reference was referring to the findings of the halftime measurements. Initial leaks stated 2 psi under, which I thought you were referencing when you mention 1 psi unaccounted for. Florio's reported the balls were closer to 1 psi under.

I think a few things are in play.

1. The ball prep process Belichick talked about Saturday may raise the internal temp via friction, and if psi measurements were taken immediately, could show an artificial increase in psi. In other words, I don't think he's lying about having done this, but ... see #2.

2. The ball prep process on AFC championship Sunday likely happened well in advance of any testing that occurred, so the artificial increase that Belicheck found wouldn't be in play for those balls.

3. The NE balls submitted for inspection were likely at or under the lower limit of 12.5 psi

These are my assumptions, and the science would indicate a psi measurement taken after the balls had fully reached equilibrium with the outdoor conditions of ~50dF would be right around 11.4 ( not running the math again, but that's what I recall from what appeared to be the correct implementation of the ideal gas law ).

 

[12punch]

Not sure how that happened. I'm trying to figure out how to delete them haha damn smart phone

devine repetition

first he says he doesn't know how that happened, then he knows it was his phone --- and this is a guy who's meticulous about his posting

ok

 

[Raider Nation]

I want to know what these guys posted 200+ times about in one thread.

 

[12punch]

Rams DE Chris Long's article on this bs:

Let’s get down to it: this story isn’t as much about air pressure as it is about the cult of the New England Patriots. The Patriots are really good at two things: winning football games and not giving a #### what you think about them. This modus operandi has earned the Patriots an equal number of fans and haters. One thing that drives people crazy is Belichick’s “less is more” school of media engagement. Media relations, after all, is a game. It involves three parties: the teams, the media and the fans. All three groups know it’s game, but if a player or a coach doesn’t play ball, people get pissed. Bill Belichick is not only a Hall of Fame coach, but he is also the undisputed heavyweight champion when it comes to flustering members of the media. I find it hard to believe Deflategate would be as big of a story without Belichick and Brady as the villains. Anybody heard about the recent Cleveland Browns texting allegations? I didn’t think so.

yeah, where'd my thread on that go??

fbg made it disappear --- very suspicious

 

[12punch]

I want to know what these guys posted 200+ times about in one thread.

go back and look at my last 4 posts on these couple pages and x50

 

[Morton Muffley]

When you guys start acting smart and running your own calculations, I hope you realize how meaningless it is. If any of you think the refs accurately measure these balls down to the tenths of a decimal point....

Agreed, I have been arguing for days that there is no way the reefs were adequately measuring psi or any of the other required specs (length, weight, long circumference, short circumference, etc) for 24 footballs...ain't happening

It's funny how this has come full circle. I proposed this theory as well last week and I was excoriated for it.

This whole thread has come full circle more than once my friend...and that is both funny and sad (and occasionally infuriating, but I can't keep away from a debate in which I am 100% certain I am right and 90% certain I will be proven to be right -I am saving the other 10% for inconclusive evidence)

Despite all the Salty Haters who complain about the Patriots, I don't think anyone will care in about 20 years about Spygate or Deflategate.

Brady and Belichek are slam-dunk Hall of Famers. Nothing will change that.

The Steelers of the 70s openly admitted to using PEDs, and no one cares. Everyone seems to still love them.

Different time. First came Pete Rose, then the steroids scandal. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if this stupid "scandal" ends up costing Brady and Belichik their well deserved seats in the HOF.

wanna laugh at BB last press conference??

The Pats prepare the balls and give them to the refs 2-2.5 hours prior to kickoff. The refs are charged with inspecting and approving the balls, and they then give them back to the teams about 10 minutes prior to kickoff.My guess is that the Pats buff up the balls one last time before giving them to the refs. The refs probably inspect the balls sooner rather than later, so it's very conceivable that an increase in internal pressure from the buffing may not have come down to equilibrium when the refs do their inspection.

Why would they do that? You would think they are already buffed to Brady's liking. Why the last minute buffing?

My guess is they intentionally inflate the balls with hot air right before they give them to the refs, so it's very conceivable that an increase in internal pressure from the hot air may not have come down to equilibrium when the refs do their inspection. If they inspect them early, the balls artificially measure up to the required psi. If they measure them later, the Pats cover themselves by telling the refs to inflate them to 12.5 psi.

of course that's what happens.

what's the problem?

oh, and they also heat it up enough so that they make the refs take air out of the balls if they bother to measure the psi, further deflating them.and it's all within the rules.

i really don't understand what the problem is.

Maybe. Maybe not. But either way it further tarnishes their image. And Bill stated in his press conference that they never do anything that crosses or even approaches the line.

Yeah, well he contradicted himself on that point within the press conference itself but no one seems to have noticed. I am a pats supporter but an equal opportunity bs detector so here it is...he said they try to stay as far away from the line as possible, but also said that with nfl psi specs between 12.5 and 13.5 he has them set the psi at 12.5! Uh bill, I think that is the definition of ON the line.

 

[12punch]

tj is either a troll or not the sharpest tool in the shed

It's definitely not the "not the sharpest tool" option. I'm a pretty intelligent person believe it or not. So maybe it's trolling, but it's unintended. I expressed my take and got feedback I took issue with and responded. I disagree with the way a lot of you guys are looking at this. Sorry. I just do. I know that bothers a bunch of you but that's not my problem. Right now, we're dealing with opinions, not facts, and mine is every bit as valid as any other, as crazy as those others seem to me.

why is it I can always find a quick dozen people to claim they're intelligent, but I've never met anybody claiming to be an idiot?

and yet, every day people running around calling everybody an idiot like they grow on trees

 

[Raider Nation]

I want to know what these guys posted 200+ times about in one thread.

go back and look at my last 4 posts on these couple pages and x50

If you didn't make your point with the first couple of hundred tries, it's probably not in the cards.

 

[cmv5]

So, Neil Degrasse Tyson's retraction where he says it would need to be 90 degree air is being used as an in your face moment for Pats fans... So Refs get balls that have been buffed to the point that the outside activity caused the ball to heat up to 90 degrees and everything is copacetic? The ball would burn their hands!

Whatever took place to cause the difference in psi, it was not caused by the temperature in the stadium.

 

[12punch]

So, Neil Degrasse Tyson's retraction where he says it would need to be 90 degree air is being used as an in your face moment for Pats fans... So Refs get balls that have been buffed to the point that the outside activity caused the ball to heat up to 90 degrees and everything is copacetic? The ball would burn their hands!

what's your internal body temp right now?

 

[12punch]

btw, this is from page 29

I know this hot ball theory is gaining popularity, but wouldn't refs find it odd that they need ####### oven mitts to handle these things on a 40 degree day?

 

[Devine Intervention]

I think what he is getting at is what would the exterior temp of the ball need to be to increase the interior temp to 90 deg?

 

[cmv5]

So, Neil Degrasse Tyson's retraction where he says it would need to be 90 degree air is being used as an in your face moment for Pats fans... So Refs get balls that have been buffed to the point that the outside activity caused the ball to heat up to 90 degrees and everything is copacetic? The ball would burn their hands!

what's your internal body temp right now?

If you want to get the air inside a football to 90 degrees how hot would the outside of the ball need to be? Quite a bit hotter to have an impact on the air inside the ball. Also, not it was General Tso a couple of pages back using Neil Degrasse Tyson's statement about the air in the ball being 90 degrees instead of 120 degrees as backing up the Pats ball rubbing story.

 

[cmv5]

Neil deGrasse Tyson just posted a retraction on the bs he posted earlier saying the balls would have had to be filled with 125 degree air to explain a 15% reduction in air pressure... Turns out he was only off by 35 degrees!

Bill Nye is now on the clock...

https://m.facebook.com/notes/neil-degrasse-tyson/deflategate/10153074004496613

This here.

 

[12punch]

I want to know what these guys posted 200+ times about in one thread.

go back and look at my last 4 posts on these couple pages and x50

If you didn't make your point with the first couple of hundred tries, it's probably not in the cards.

you just wait --- when I get up around 84,000 in here they're gonna start to get really good

 

[Morton Muffley]

Neil deGrasse Tyson just posted a retraction on the bs he posted earlier saying the balls would have had to be filled with 125 degree air to explain a 15% reduction in air pressure... Turns out he was only off by 35 degrees!

Bill Nye is now on the clock...https://m.facebook.com/notes/neil-degrasse-tyson/deflategate/10153074004496613

This here.

I am tired of answering the same question over and over...go back and read my posts. Good night.

 

[Raider Nation]

I want to know what these guys posted 200+ times about in one thread.

go back and look at my last 4 posts on these couple pages and x50

If you didn't make your point with the first couple of hundred tries, it's probably not in the cards.

you just wait --- when I get up around 84,000 in here they're gonna start to get really good

Unlikely.

 

[Devine Intervention]

What annoys me are the people posting unrealistic ideas, like what if they filled the balls up in a room that's 90 degrees???

It's these unlikely scenarios that are "plausible" so you can't say with no doubt that it couldn't be an accident. We know it's not the case but I guess technically aliens could have secretly been hiding in the bathroom, knocked out the ba boy, deflated the balls, used the old memory loss stick from men in black and then sent the ball boy out. And unless you can prove aliens don't exist and this isn't the case well then I guess you got nothing!

 

[12punch]

you can't say with no doubt that it couldn't be an accident.

wut

 

[Devine Intervention]

Sorry. You couldn't say with 100% certainty that the patriots had any wrong doing. It could have been the aliens. Better?

 

[PhD]

So Bill Nye (alleged science guy but confirmed Seahawks fan) posted a video attempting to refute Belichick's explanation of the Deflategate hypothesis.

Unfortunately for Nye he makes two glaring mistakes that accidentally end up proving both Belichick AND tom Brady's points!

First, he says "imagine you are in a sweaty lockeroom that is 80dF and you inflate the footballs...then you move them to a field at 51dF" He then states that this change of approximately 30dF would result in "about a 6% change" [in psi] and that ZING "you'd be off by a factor of 2.5!" Here the 2.5 factor refers to a 2psi change being a 15% difference (6% x 2.5=15%). The problem is that he is making the same miscalculation that Neil deGrasse Tyson made (and recently retracted/corrected) of using gauge pressure instead of absolute pressure. Interestingly, when you use the correct pressure calcs, the 2 psi diff is actually a 7% diff and thus pretty close to the stated 6% diff that he can explain with the30dF temperature drop. Furthermore, it is VERY VERY far away from the "off by a factor of 2.5"...which is again is undoubtedly is the incorrect 15% that Tyson was first using.

Second, at the end of the video the timer goes off and he says "we just got this ball out of the fridge" at 51dF. He squeezes the ball and declares that it is "pretty much the same!!!" But since we know the ideal gas law has reduced the pressure in that ball by about 1.5psi we now have a debunker who is declaring that Tom Brady is correct in being unable to tell the impact that a small drop in psi has on a football.

Here is the video for any who care to watch Nye disprove everything he thought he was proving.

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2015/1/27/7921727/bill-nye-explains-deflategate-video

More than Nye says the Patriots science is way off:http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24997479/neil-degrasse-tyson-science-from-belichick-patriots-doesnt-add-up

It's like a never-ending flood of scientific ignorance.

Please google Ideal Gas Law, plug in the numbers for the calculation, and you can see for yourself that Bill Nye and Neil Tyson screwed up basic math. This is stuff you should have learned in high school! SMH.

Right, greater than 90 degrees. All this does is bury the Pats further.Even the corrections prove the Pats wrong.

Not at all. Just the opposite. You are welcome to show your work disproving that a football inflated indoors at 12.5 will drop well below that threshold when brought outdoors in 50 degree temperatures. Mufflly can provide the exact number.And that doesn't take into account any additional internal temperatures generated from the friction created by the ball prep process. A guy on another forum just did an experiment showing that rubbing the ball for 4 minutes with only his hands increased the psi by .3. And it took 10 minutes for the psi to come back down .3.

It also doesn't take into account any psi reductions as a result of the balls being wet, which we know happens as well.

Look, the temperature-psi effect is real in theory, at least at extreme changes and time, and anyone can do experiments to study the effect of friction, temperature and psi, but their methods have to generalize to the situation at hand or their study is flawed at best.

First, BB's alleged process of rubbing the balls could certainly raise the psi - more or less to the degree they are rubbed - but, we know it is not a permanent effect and the psi will gradually drop back to baseline over time. So, you either have to account for gradual return to baseline or you have to convince us that there is no time issue because they do this immediately before the officials measure the psi (ie, no time = no decrease to baseline). That would be pretty crazy. Are we to believe that the ball boy is rubbing down all 24 balls minutes before handing them over? Maybe, but it would be strange - especially if you are just trying to get the right texture.

Second, in many/most/all of these studies the ball is put into temperature/water conditions to simulate game conditions. But that is not all that happens in the game. What about having someone rub them down while toweling off the water as the refs must have done to some extent. Wouldn't that also create friction and thereby raise psi to some extent? maybe even enough to offset some (not all) of the temperature-psi effect?

I think it's time to put the "internal study" to rest - as entertaining as it is...

 

[12punch]

here's a crazy unrealistic idea --- tell us what you think

pats have a bunch of nicely broken in footballs sitting around

they throw a bunch in a bag and give them to the refs a couple hours before the game

ref maybe grabs each ball, turns it over and tosses it back in

bag given to nfl employed ball transportation engineer who stops in at the toilet to take a piss on the way to the field

bag handed to refs who put a ball in play

after a bit the balls chill down and lose a psi like every cooler game in the history of football

and nobody notices because NOBODY IN THE HISTORY OF FOOTBALL GAF ABOUT A ####### PSI

now, I guess at halftime of this particular game they're measured with an electron microscope because some axe grinding **** can't beat the pats on the field, so he's determined to beat them off the field

 

[12punch]

Second, in many/most/all of these studies the ball is put into temperature/water conditions to simulate game conditions. But that is not all that happens in the game. What about having someone rub them down while toweling off the water as the refs must have done to some extent. Wouldn't that also create friction and thereby raise psi to some extent? maybe even enough to offset some (not all) of the temperature-psi effect?

I think it's time to put the "internal study" to rest - as entertaining as it is...

no

 

[Jack White]

Nearly 6000 posts about this?

What the hell is wrong with you guys?

 

[Tango]

I want to know what these guys posted 200+ times about in one thread.

go back and look at my last 4 posts on these couple pages and x50

If you didn't make your point with the first couple of hundred tries, it's probably not in the cards.

you just wait --- when I get up around 84,000 in here they're gonna start to get really good

Unlikely.

You, in particular RN, would be (dis)pleased to know that I used a Francesa reference 2 pages ago.

He has no love for BB nor do his friends, and of course he's a blow-hard 95% of the time, but he seems so sure about this one; and what's interesting about that is he seems like he is ready to burst about wanting to share the various stories he is hearing in the league about this. He let's it out in tidbits here and there, but it's obvious he has to hold back and it's killing him.

 

[Bossman]

I have to admit....

I had bought into the science defense.

I was also sold on the footballs submitted underinflated and "refs never checked the balls" defense.

... but if there is video and a time frame of the ball attendant taking the balls in question on a detour into a single stall bathroom (no chance of a witness and no cameras).... 90 seconds is plenty of time for someone with the right tool and a seasons worth of experience.

I gotta say, likely did it..

 

[devouredbychaos]

Nearly 6000 posts about this?

What the hell is wrong with you guys?

The salty haters are jealous of the Pats success, that's what it all comes down to. Grasping at straws!