Patriots being investigated after Colts game (2 Viewers)

[((Morpheus))]

On the plus side, at least the general public is aware of the ideal gas law now.

 

[JIslander]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/29/nfl-didnt-log-the-psi-of-each-patriots-football/

And this controversy is officially over

Over? Again?

I thought it was done after BB press conference? About 75 pages ago.

So uh....you guys think the refs check the ball pressure this week?

yes and moving forward. Brady's soft balls are no more.

 

[General Tso]

This video sums up Deflategate perfectly in my opinion. Well worth the two minutes to view it.

http://youtu.be/IzKMcYCYIKM

 

[BassNBrew]

The leaks themselves, whether orchestrated, or tolerated, or not controlled are grounds for removal in my book.

Funny that we don't hold the POTUS or Congress to the same standard.

 

[GreekFreak]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/29/nfl-didnt-log-the-psi-of-each-patriots-football/

And this controversy is officially over

Over? Again?

it was over before it began.

The whole thing was a joke from the beginning. That's what you get from an irresponsible drug addict owner and his small town hick "reporter" lapdog. How stupid do all the haters look now?

 

[T J]

I never thought anyone was going to be able to actually prove anything anyhow. Not sure how Blandino's comments change anything. But whatever.

Carry on.

 

[BassNBrew]

I think you fail to understand how close the owners all are and how much influence Kraft has among them.

Kraft and Jerry Jones are particularly close. Those are the two most powerful and influential owners in the league. This may become a big deal.

I would not be surprised to see Goodell forced to step down. This has been horribly mishandled by the commissioner. All the owners are going to agree that they don't want to see these kinds of headlines. Any owner could be caught up in this kind of scenario next year because there is always something going on for every team. For the pats its the football. For the ravens it's domestic violence. For the browns it's text messages. There's always something, but it's never supposed to be front page scandal news.

This is a really bad year for Goodell.

It's a different age and the NFL is the big dog. With all the inside access and numerous media outlets, this stuff is going to happen. I'm pretty sure the owner's will deal with the fallout of this considering the reaping the dollars rewards due to the attention and expansion of access. Goodell is held to a high standard on one subject…money. Everything else is an elementary school pass/fail standard.

 

[General Tso]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/29/nfl-didnt-log-the-psi-of-each-patriots-football/

And this controversy is officially over

Over? Again?

it was over before it began.

The whole thing was a joke from the beginning. That's what you get from an irresponsible drug addict owner and his small town hick "reporter" lapdog. How stupid do all the haters look now?

What the NFL did here is the equivalent of pulling over the most hated guy in town for going 35 in a 30 zone. Leaking it to the local newspaper before the evidence is released, spending $100,000 and using up all the town's resources on an all-out investigation, only to find out that they didn't even use radar or laser.

 

[The Kerminator]

I'm still failing to see how this is over. So the refs check the balls with a pressure gauge before the game. They either pass them or fail them. They check them again at halftime. The balls psi measure now falls below the standard. Something obviously caused deflation in the ball between the time they checked them pre-game and halftime. We all knew this before. Not sure how the fact that they didn't record each balls psi really matters. What matters is how or why they lost pressure. Some will claim it was atmospheric. Others claim they were tampered with. How does today's news change any of that? How can you claim it is now over unless of course you are a Pats fan?

 

[The Kerminator]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/29/nfl-didnt-log-the-psi-of-each-patriots-football/

And this controversy is officially over

Over? Again?

it was over before it began.

The whole thing was a joke from the beginning. That's what you get from an irresponsible drug addict owner and his small town hick "reporter" lapdog.How stupid do all the haters look now?

What the NFL did here is the equivalent of pulling over the most hated guy in town for going 35 in a 30 zone. Leaking it to the local newspaper before the evidence is released, spending $100,000 and using up all the town's resources on an all-out investigation, only to find out that they didn't even use radar or laser.

How so? Looks to me like they still used a pressure gauge, just didn't record each individual ball's psi.

 

[Road Warriors]

I'm still failing to see how this is over. So the refs check the balls with a pressure gauge before the game. They either pass them or fail them. They check them again at halftime. The balls psi measure now falls below the standard. Something obviously caused deflation in the ball between the time they checked them pre-game and halftime. We all knew this before. Not sure how the fact that they didn't record each balls psi really matters. What matters is how or why they lost pressure. Some will claim it was atmospheric. Others claim they were tampered with. How does today's news change any of that? How can you claim it is now over unless of course you are a Pats fan?

With no measurements, and a known effect from the elements, it's going to be hard to get even a more likely than not ruling.

To get to that relatively low bar of proof, you'd have to have a drop in pressure that was greater than the known drop created by the temperature drop.

 

[GoBirds]

I'm still failing to see how this is over. So the refs check the balls with a pressure gauge before the game. They either pass them or fail them. They check them again at halftime. The balls psi measure now falls below the standard. Something obviously caused deflation in the ball between the time they checked them pre-game and halftime. We all knew this before. Not sure how the fact that they didn't record each balls psi really matters. What matters is how or why they lost pressure. Some will claim it was atmospheric. Others claim they were tampered with. How does today's news change any of that? How can you claim it is now over unless of course you are a Pats fan?

It's not over. It will all depend on the investigation which sounds like it will take well after the game so until then each story leaked will be overreacting to and twisted. Gotta do something superbowl week.

 

[JIslander]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/29/nfl-didnt-log-the-psi-of-each-patriots-football/

And this controversy is officially over

Over? Again?

it was over before it began.

The whole thing was a joke from the beginning. That's what you get from an irresponsible drug addict owner and his small town hick "reporter" lapdog.How stupid do all the haters look now?

What the NFL did here is the equivalent of pulling over the most hated guy in town for going 35 in a 30 zone. Leaking it to the local newspaper before the evidence is released, spending $100,000 and using up all the town's resources on an all-out investigation, only to find out that they didn't even use radar or laser.

How so? Looks to me like they still used a pressure gauge, just didn't record each individual ball's psi.

I'm with ya prawn, but I too agree this was mishandled by the league. That said, Brady sure was nervous. IMO, Pats had a established a system of prepping the balls for texture + knowing they would lose pressure to Brady's liking once outside.

 

[Wadsworth]

This thread is already awesome, but if Brady has a bad game and the Pats have multiple fumbles with the checked SB balls this thread will be epic next week.

 

[The Kerminator]

I'm still failing to see how this is over. So the refs check the balls with a pressure gauge before the game. They either pass them or fail them. They check them again at halftime. The balls psi measure now falls below the standard. Something obviously caused deflation in the ball between the time they checked them pre-game and halftime. We all knew this before. Not sure how the fact that they didn't record each balls psi really matters. What matters is how or why they lost pressure. Some will claim it was atmospheric. Others claim they were tampered with. How does today's news change any of that? How can you claim it is now over unless of course you are a Pats fan?

With no measurements, and a known effect from the elements, it's going to be hard to get even a more likely than not ruling.

To get to that relatively low bar of proof, you'd have to have a drop in pressure that was greater than the known drop created by the temperature drop.

Yes, correct. But we don't know it wasn't so it's tough to declare it's over. Say the ball measures pre-game at the very minimum of the limit at 12.5 psi. Assume through testing by the NFL or independent labs the known drop due to the weather and other conditions is 2 psi. If the balls at halftime measure less than 10.5, something else is going on, isn't it?

 

[General Tso]

I'm still failing to see how this is over. So the refs check the balls with a pressure gauge before the game. They either pass them or fail them. They check them again at halftime. The balls psi measure now falls below the standard. Something obviously caused deflation in the ball between the time they checked them pre-game and halftime. We all knew this before. Not sure how the fact that they didn't record each balls psi really matters. What matters is how or why they lost pressure. Some will claim it was atmospheric. Others claim they were tampered with. How does today's news change any of that? How can you claim it is now over unless of course you are a Pats fan?

We know for a fact that a ball inflated to 12.5 pregame will lose 1.0 psi solely due to the change in temperature from 75 to 50. So unless you have an actual amount of the loss of air pressure you have no way of determining if the reduction was due to atmospheric changes or tampering.The only "out" for the NFL is if the halftime gauge measurements were WAY off - like the 2-3 psi originally reported but later refuted. Without logs being kept, we will now have to rely on the ref's memory as to what the exact halftime readings were. If he can say emphatically that they were lower than 11.0 and this is corroborated by the other officials, then the Pats may have a problem, but the loss of 1.5 could still be attributed to temperature drop, rain soaking the balls, and pregame prep procedures by the Pats. If the halftime readings were 10.5 or less, the Pats have problems.

 

[Devine Intervention]

I think this hurts the chances of finding concrete evidence. But if this was truly over and was a obv shut case like you all are claiming, then wouldn't the nfl have put out a statement that there isn't enough data to conclude anything and let this media circus stop taking away from the Super Bowl? The fact that it's still ongoing just makes you wonder. Id bet anything that they knew from day one that there was no specific measurement taken pregame. And yet the investigation carried on. So there must be more or this would have been a done deal.

 

[The Kerminator]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/29/nfl-didnt-log-the-psi-of-each-patriots-football/

And this controversy is officially over

Over? Again?

it was over before it began.

The whole thing was a joke from the beginning. That's what you get from an irresponsible drug addict owner and his small town hick "reporter" lapdog.How stupid do all the haters look now?

What the NFL did here is the equivalent of pulling over the most hated guy in town for going 35 in a 30 zone. Leaking it to the local newspaper before the evidence is released, spending $100,000 and using up all the town's resources on an all-out investigation, only to find out that they didn't even use radar or laser.

How so? Looks to me like they still used a pressure gauge, just didn't record each individual ball's psi.

I'm with ya prawn, but I too agree this was mishandled by the league. That said, Brady sure was nervous. IMO, Pats had a established a system of prepping the balls for texture + knowing they would lose pressure to Brady's liking once outside.

Definitely mishandled by the league in a big way. But all we have is a lot of news stories or opinions so far and very little fact. I'm not sure one way or the other if the Pats cheated or not. All I'm saying is, given the lack of real information of the NFL's evidence, that it is ridiculous for anyone to declare it's over. They could have no evidence whatsoever. They could have an equipment guy say that Brady paid him to deflate the footballs to 11.8 psi. It's not over until the NFL says it's over. Not Kraft or Brady or BB, or a Pat fan.

 

[GoBirds]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/29/nfl-didnt-log-the-psi-of-each-patriots-football/

And this controversy is officially over

Over? Again?

it was over before it began.

The whole thing was a joke from the beginning. That's what you get from an irresponsible drug addict owner and his small town hick "reporter" lapdog.How stupid do all the haters look now?

What the NFL did here is the equivalent of pulling over the most hated guy in town for going 35 in a 30 zone. Leaking it to the local newspaper before the evidence is released, spending $100,000 and using up all the town's resources on an all-out investigation, only to find out that they didn't even use radar or laser.

How so? Looks to me like they still used a pressure gauge, just didn't record each individual ball's psi.

I'm with ya prawn, but I too agree this was mishandled by the league. That said, Brady sure was nervous. IMO, Pats had a established a system of prepping the balls for texture + knowing they would lose pressure to Brady's liking once outside.

We need one extreme or the other. Either complete disaster with 4 turnovers or blow up with 6 TDs and giving double birds to everyone after the game.

 

[The Kerminator]

I'm still failing to see how this is over. So the refs check the balls with a pressure gauge before the game. They either pass them or fail them. They check them again at halftime. The balls psi measure now falls below the standard. Something obviously caused deflation in the ball between the time they checked them pre-game and halftime. We all knew this before. Not sure how the fact that they didn't record each balls psi really matters. What matters is how or why they lost pressure. Some will claim it was atmospheric. Others claim they were tampered with. How does today's news change any of that? How can you claim it is now over unless of course you are a Pats fan?

We know for a fact that a ball inflated to 12.5 pregame will lose 1.0 psi solely due to the change in temperature from 75 to 50. So unless you have an actual amount of the loss of air pressure you have no way of determining if the reduction was due to atmospheric changes or tampering.The only "out" for the NFL is if the halftime gauge measurements were WAY off - like the 2-3 psi originally reported but later refuted. Without logs being kept, we will now have to rely on the ref's memory as to what the exact halftime readings were. If he can say emphatically that they were lower than 11.0 and this is corroborated by the other officials, then the Pats may have a problem, but the loss of 1.5 could still be attributed to temperature drop, rain soaking the balls, and pregame prep procedures by the Pats. If the halftime readings were 10.5 or less, the Pats have problems.

Agreed. The possibility still exists that that might be the case. So I guess it's not over yet?

 

[Devine Intervention]

Anything below a reading of 11.5 would be reason for concern.

If the patriots and colts balls registered within the limits and got ok for game play then they fell within 12.5 to 13.5.

Now say pats were 12.5 and they passed and Indy was at most 13.5 and passed. If the atmosphere affected the balls evenly then anything more than a 1 psi drop would have also put colts balls below passing and they would have failed as well. So it all depends I if it was more than 1 psi.

The only other case was that colts balls dropped 1 psi or less but pats balls dropped even more due to where they stored them or how they were handled that could have caused that drop.

My guess is the psi was more than that 1 psi and the nfl is just doing it's job going through the patriots game day procedure to see if their process could have been the reason.

 

[tombonneau]

This thread is already awesome, but if Brady has a bad game and the Pats have multiple fumbles with the checked SB balls this thread will be epic next week.

Pretty sure every SB for awhile has used lots of special commemorative balls they auction off and teams don't supply them so he's already played with them.

 

[General Tso]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/29/nfl-didnt-log-the-psi-of-each-patriots-football/

And this controversy is officially over

Over? Again?

it was over before it began.

The whole thing was a joke from the beginning. That's what you get from an irresponsible drug addict owner and his small town hick "reporter" lapdog.How stupid do all the haters look now?

What the NFL did here is the equivalent of pulling over the most hated guy in town for going 35 in a 30 zone. Leaking it to the local newspaper before the evidence is released, spending $100,000 and using up all the town's resources on an all-out investigation, only to find out that they didn't even use radar or laser.

How so? Looks to me like they still used a pressure gauge, just didn't record each individual ball's psi.

I hate to say this, but it's still not certain if pressure gauges were used. Blandino said in a side session after the press conference today that the balls were "gauged". Once again use of a word that could mean many different things. Some people are sill questioning the NFL's curious use of verbiage, and it's not at all clear if he was talking about the pregame balls, halftime balls, or both.In my OPINION I believe the balls were most likely Measured by gauge at halftime, and maybe measured by gauge pregame. I'm extremely frustrated that the media has had every opportunity to ask follow up questions with the NFL to clarify when gauges were used, and they keep neglecting to do it.

 

[cstu]

Montana calls Brady a liar:

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/extra_points/2015/01/joe_montana_believes_brady_asked_for_deflation_of.html

On the day Tom Brady posted a #TBT photo of himself wearing his idol's uniform as a kid, that same idol had some strong words regarding the Patriots quarterback's involvement in Deflategate.

Joe Montana spoke to reporters following an event to promote Papa John's pizza and wasn't buying either Brady's insistence that he knew nothing about how the Pats' footballs became slightly deflated during the first half of the AFC Championship game or coach Bill Belichick's scientific explanation for how the balls may have become underinflated detailed at a surprise press conference last Saturday.

"If I want a ball a certain way, I don't do it myself," Montana said as per a report from Christopher Gasper of The Boston Globe. "So, somebody did it for him."

Montana, who won four Super Bowls as the quarterback for the San Francisco 49ers in the '80s, said that a football can wind up a certain way only if the quarterback wants it to and that doesn't mean he has to do it himself.

"I mean, it's easy to figure out who did it," Montana said. "Did Tom do it? No, but Tom likes the balls that way, obviously, or you wouldn't have 11 of them that way without him complaining because as a quarterback, you know how you like the ball."

For what it's worth, Montana thinks the whole thing is no big deal and that the air pressure guidelines are "stupid."

"They shouldn't have the rule anyway," he said. "If you want to see the game played at the best, everybody has a different grip, everybody likes a different feel."

Montana also noted that he feels Brady is a "great quarterback" and that this whole situation shouldn't reflect poorly on anything Brady has accomplished throughout his career.

Montana is the latest quarterback -- current or former -- to weigh in on Deflategate with Kurt Warner and Drew Brees among the most recent to speak their minds. Former Dallas Cowboys quarterback Troy Aikman, who Montana referenced when discussing the issue, echoed Montana's sentiments last week when he said, "For the balls to be deflated, that doesn't happen unless the quarterback wants it to happen. I can assure you of that."

 

[Old Smiley]

The leaks themselves, whether orchestrated, or tolerated, or not controlled are grounds for removal in my book.

Funny that we don't hold the POTUS or Congress to the same standard.

AREA MAN HATES TWO THINGS AT SAME TIME

 

[Run It Up]

Well guys, its been fun - this entire thing is bull####, whether you want to accept that or not.

The game is 68 hours away.

The hype is real:

SCOREBOARD

 

[Dr. Octopus]

This thread is already awesome, but if Brady has a bad game and the Pats have multiple fumbles with the checked SB balls this thread will be epic next week.

You'll have half the people saying "see Brady can't play without deflating the football" and the other half crying and cursing Goodell for causing the Pats to lose due to all of the distractions.

 

[Old Smiley]

This thread is already awesome, but if Brady has a bad game and the Pats have multiple fumbles with the checked SB balls this thread will be epic next week.

You'll have half the people saying "see Brady can't play without deflating the football" and the other half crying and cursing Goodell for causing the Pats to lose due to all of the distractions.

The second one would be legit.

 

[espnespn]

This thread is already awesome, but if Brady has a bad game and the Pats have multiple fumbles with the checked SB balls this thread will be epic next week.

Um, the Patriots played the 2nd half of the Colts game with perfectly inflated balls. They outscored the Colts 28-0.

Sorry, but any deflated balls made no difference.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

This thread is already awesome, but if Brady has a bad game and the Pats have multiple fumbles with the checked SB balls this thread will be epic next week.

You'll have half the people saying "see Brady can't play without deflating the football" and the other half crying and cursing Goodell for causing the Pats to lose due to all of the distractions.

The second one would be legit.

Not really. Super Bowl week is a distraction for both teams anyway. If Pat fans use that as an excuse, that's all it will be. I don't think Belichik will be unprepared at all.

 

[espnespn]

This thread is already awesome, but if Brady has a bad game and the Pats have multiple fumbles with the checked SB balls this thread will be epic next week.

You'll have half the people saying "see Brady can't play without deflating the football" and the other half crying and cursing Goodell for causing the Pats to lose due to all of the distractions.

The second one would be legit.

Not really. Super Bowl week is a distraction for both teams anyway. If Pat fans use that as an excuse, that's all it will be. I don't think Belichik will be unprepared at all.

Did the NFL interrupt the Seahawks while they were trying to prepare, the same way they interrupted the Patriots?

In a statement, Patriots owner Robert Kraft said over the past three days the team has "provided access to every full- and part-time employee the league's representatives requested to speak with and produced every communication device that they requested to search."

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/12217564/nfl-conducting-investigation-claim-new-england-patriots-used-underinflated-footballs

 

[General Tso]

I'm still failing to see how this is over. So the refs check the balls with a pressure gauge before the game. They either pass them or fail them. They check them again at halftime. The balls psi measure now falls below the standard. Something obviously caused deflation in the ball between the time they checked them pre-game and halftime. We all knew this before. Not sure how the fact that they didn't record each balls psi really matters. What matters is how or why they lost pressure. Some will claim it was atmospheric. Others claim they were tampered with. How does today's news change any of that? How can you claim it is now over unless of course you are a Pats fan?

We know for a fact that a ball inflated to 12.5 pregame will lose 1.0 psi solely due to the change in temperature from 75 to 50. So unless you have an actual amount of the loss of air pressure you have no way of determining if the reduction was due to atmospheric changes or tampering.The only "out" for the NFL is if the halftime gauge measurements were WAY off - like the 2-3 psi originally reported but later refuted. Without logs being kept, we will now have to rely on the ref's memory as to what the exact halftime readings were. If he can say emphatically that they were lower than 11.0 and this is corroborated by the other officials, then the Pats may have a problem, but the loss of 1.5 could still be attributed to temperature drop, rain soaking the balls, and pregame prep procedures by the Pats. If the halftime readings were 10.5 or less, the Pats have problems.

Agreed. The possibility still exists that that might be the case. So I guess it's not over yet?

I don't think it's over, no. In fact, with the sloppy way the NFL has handled this it may never be over. What I've learned the last few months is that the NFL has controversy after controversy for a reason - because the NFL rules are written extremely poorly, with a heavy reliance on "customs", undocumented procedures, and interpretations that vary from year to year, and on top of it all everything is administered by part time employees whose every decisions are subject to frame by frame analysis in high definition. It's a guaranteed recipe for weekly controversy and a focus away from the actual game.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

This thread is already awesome, but if Brady has a bad game and the Pats have multiple fumbles with the checked SB balls this thread will be epic next week.

You'll have half the people saying "see Brady can't play without deflating the football" and the other half crying and cursing Goodell for causing the Pats to lose due to all of the distractions.

The second one would be legit.

Not really. Super Bowl week is a distraction for both teams anyway. If Pat fans use that as an excuse, that's all it will be. I don't think Belichik will be unprepared at all.

Did the NFL interrupt the Seahawks while they were trying to prepare, the same way they interrupted the Patriots?

In a statement, Patriots owner Robert Kraft said over the past three days the team has "provided access to every full- and part-time employee the league's representatives requested to speak with and produced every communication device that they requested to search."

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/12217564/nfl-conducting-investigation-claim-new-england-patriots-used-underinflated-footballs

Yeah I'm sure the NFL talking to the equipment manager and a security guard is the reason the Pats may lose on Sunday.

 

[stbugs]

I think this hurts the chances of finding concrete evidence. But if this was truly over and was a obv shut case like you all are claiming, then wouldn't the nfl have put out a statement that there isn't enough data to conclude anything and let this media circus stop taking away from the Super Bowl? The fact that it's still ongoing just makes you wonder. Id bet anything that they knew from day one that there was no specific measurement taken pregame. And yet the investigation carried on. So there must be more or this would have been a done deal.

It doesn't make me wonder at all. It is Super Bowl week, the NFL doesn't want to make a statement at all. People who think the evil BB and Brady did something will assume that Kraft got to Goodell and they are trying to cover it up. Look through this thread, look at your own statement. You are saying it makes you wonder since no statement was made. You already have your mind made up when nothing has actually been officially stated, including what the heck the actual measurements were, which we now know we won't ever know. You may be a bit more objective, but to the people that hate the Patriots, it doesn't matter what they hear.

 

[espnespn]

This thread is already awesome, but if Brady has a bad game and the Pats have multiple fumbles with the checked SB balls this thread will be epic next week.

You'll have half the people saying "see Brady can't play without deflating the football" and the other half crying and cursing Goodell for causing the Pats to lose due to all of the distractions.

The second one would be legit.

Not really. Super Bowl week is a distraction for both teams anyway. If Pat fans use that as an excuse, that's all it will be. I don't think Belichik will be unprepared at all.

Did the NFL interrupt the Seahawks while they were trying to prepare, the same way they interrupted the Patriots?

In a statement, Patriots owner Robert Kraft said over the past three days the team has "provided access to every full- and part-time employee the league's representatives requested to speak with and produced every communication device that they requested to search."

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/12217564/nfl-conducting-investigation-claim-new-england-patriots-used-underinflated-footballs

Yeah I'm sure the NFL talking to the equipment manager and a security guard is the reason the Pats may lose on Sunday.

I didn't realize the equipment manager and security guard were on the the Patriots coaching staff.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/interception-tipped-colts-deflated-ball-report-article-1.2085314

 

[Dr. Octopus]

This thread is already awesome, but if Brady has a bad game and the Pats have multiple fumbles with the checked SB balls this thread will be epic next week.

You'll have half the people saying "see Brady can't play without deflating the football" and the other half crying and cursing Goodell for causing the Pats to lose due to all of the distractions.

The second one would be legit.

Not really. Super Bowl week is a distraction for both teams anyway. If Pat fans use that as an excuse, that's all it will be. I don't think Belichik will be unprepared at all.

Did the NFL interrupt the Seahawks while they were trying to prepare, the same way they interrupted the Patriots?

In a statement, Patriots owner Robert Kraft said over the past three days the team has "provided access to every full- and part-time employee the league's representatives requested to speak with and produced every communication device that they requested to search."

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/12217564/nfl-conducting-investigation-claim-new-england-patriots-used-underinflated-footballs

Yeah I'm sure the NFL talking to the equipment manager and a security guard is the reason the Pats may lose on Sunday.

I didn't realize the equipment manager and security guard were on the the Patriots coaching staff.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/interception-tipped-colts-deflated-ball-report-article-1.2085314

If you want to use it as an excuse, I guess it's a win-win for you then.

 

[espnespn]

This thread is already awesome, but if Brady has a bad game and the Pats have multiple fumbles with the checked SB balls this thread will be epic next week.

You'll have half the people saying "see Brady can't play without deflating the football" and the other half crying and cursing Goodell for causing the Pats to lose due to all of the distractions.

The second one would be legit.

Not really. Super Bowl week is a distraction for both teams anyway. If Pat fans use that as an excuse, that's all it will be. I don't think Belichik will be unprepared at all.

Did the NFL interrupt the Seahawks while they were trying to prepare, the same way they interrupted the Patriots?

In a statement, Patriots owner Robert Kraft said over the past three days the team has "provided access to every full- and part-time employee the league's representatives requested to speak with and produced every communication device that they requested to search."

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/12217564/nfl-conducting-investigation-claim-new-england-patriots-used-underinflated-footballs

Yeah I'm sure the NFL talking to the equipment manager and a security guard is the reason the Pats may lose on Sunday.

I didn't realize the equipment manager and security guard were on the the Patriots coaching staff.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/interception-tipped-colts-deflated-ball-report-article-1.2085314

If you want to use it as an excuse, I guess it's a win-win for you then.

Since you are a Jets fan, all you know about are lose-lose situations.

 

[Wadsworth]

This thread is already awesome, but if Brady has a bad game and the Pats have multiple fumbles with the checked SB balls this thread will be epic next week.

Um, the Patriots played the 2nd half of the Colts game with perfectly inflated balls. They outscored the Colts 28-0.

Sorry, but any deflated balls made no difference.

Okay. I am not talking about reality, the perception will be there for some people that properly inflated balls changed performance. I consider that ridiculous, but a bad game from Brady and an uncommon amount of fumbles would add fuel to the fire.

 

[Road Warriors]

I'm still failing to see how this is over. So the refs check the balls with a pressure gauge before the game. They either pass them or fail them. They check them again at halftime. The balls psi measure now falls below the standard. Something obviously caused deflation in the ball between the time they checked them pre-game and halftime. We all knew this before. Not sure how the fact that they didn't record each balls psi really matters. What matters is how or why they lost pressure. Some will claim it was atmospheric. Others claim they were tampered with. How does today's news change any of that? How can you claim it is now over unless of course you are a Pats fan?

With no measurements, and a known effect from the elements, it's going to be hard to get even a more likely than not ruling.

To get to that relatively low bar of proof, you'd have to have a drop in pressure that was greater than the known drop created by the temperature drop.

Yes, correct. But we don't know it wasn't so it's tough to declare it's over. Say the ball measures pre-game at the very minimum of the limit at 12.5 psi. Assume through testing by the NFL or independent labs the known drop due to the weather and other conditions is 2 psi. If the balls at halftime measure less than 10.5, something else is going on, isn't it?

We can all agree to that. But since the league has now stated they didn't record the measurements, then we don't know that the balls at halftime were less than 10.5. We don't know what the starting or ending pressures were, Without that info, how can any fair judgement be made?

That's why I think this is effectively over.

 

[General Tso]

The New York Times weighs in... Acknowledges all the mistakes made by the scientists initially, and says that the current scientific evidence supports the Patriots.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/30/sports/football/deflation-experiments-show-patriots-may-have-science-on-their-side-after-all.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=second-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=1

The question driving the public dialogue is whether the Patriots tampered with the balls to make them easier to handle, or whether simply moving them from the warmth of a locker room to the chill and dampness of the field could account for the deflation.

The Patriots have absorbed a beating in that larger contest, with many scientists concluding that only the surreptitious hiss of air being released from the balls could explain the difference. But now the Patriots have started to rally, and in a big way. Healy, who provided The New York Times with an advance copy of his technical paper on the experiments, concluded that most or all of the deflation could be explained by those environmental effects.

This analysis looks solid to me, said Max Tegmark, a professor of physics at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology who reviewed the paper at The Timess request. To me, their measurements mean that theres no evidence of foul play.

Other evidence is also turning the Patriots way. In a usually obscure profession that has received extraordinary attention during the controversy, some academic and research physicists now concede that they made a crucial error in their initial calculations, using an equation called the ideal gas law.

When that error is corrected, the amount of deflation predicted in moving from room temperature to a 50-degree field is roughly doubled. Healy, a graduate student in mechanical engineering at Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh, went further: He measured the pressure drop in 12 footballs when they were moved from a room at 75 degrees to one at 50 degrees (the approximate temperature on the field in the Colts game).

In the experiment, the deflation of the footballs was close to the larger, correctly calculated value. When Healy moistened the balls to mimic the effects of the rainy weather that day, the pressure dropped even further, close to the deflation of 2 pounds per square inch that the N.F.L. is believed to have found.

 

[Green and Gold]

This thread is already awesome, but if Brady has a bad game and the Pats have multiple fumbles with the checked SB balls this thread will be epic next week.

Um, the Patriots played the 2nd half of the Colts game with perfectly inflated balls. They outscored the Colts 28-0.

Sorry, but any deflated balls made no difference.

Okay. I am not talking about reality, the perception will be there for some people that properly inflated balls changed performance. I consider that ridiculous, but a bad game from Brady and an uncommon amount of fumbles would add fuel to the fire.

I agree that it would add fuel to the fire for the average fan (who don't, in general, understand the concept of a small sample size). In reality, if they fumble and/or throw picks against Seattle, it won't be because of the ball's psi, it will be because their defense is really good and Brady is good for at least one dumb pick per game.

I still can't get over how lucky the Patriots were in recovering those two fumbles in the Baltimore game, especially Edelman's. How he recovered that is beyond me.

 

[Wadsworth]

This thread is already awesome, but if Brady has a bad game and the Pats have multiple fumbles with the checked SB balls this thread will be epic next week.

Um, the Patriots played the 2nd half of the Colts game with perfectly inflated balls. They outscored the Colts 28-0.

Sorry, but any deflated balls made no difference.

Okay. I am not talking about reality, the perception will be there for some people that properly inflated balls changed performance. I consider that ridiculous, but a bad game from Brady and an uncommon amount of fumbles would add fuel to the fire.

I agree that it would add fuel to the fire for the average fan (who don't, in general, understand the concept of a small sample size). In reality, if they fumble and/or throw picks against Seattle, it won't be because of the ball's psi, it will be because their defense is really good and Brady is good for at least one dumb pick per game.

I still can't get over how lucky the Patriots were in recovering those two fumbles in the Baltimore game, especially Edelman's. How he recovered that is beyond me.

Clearly the reduced PSI of the football allowed him to recover it...duh.

 

[The Kerminator]

I'm still failing to see how this is over. So the refs check the balls with a pressure gauge before the game. They either pass them or fail them. They check them again at halftime. The balls psi measure now falls below the standard. Something obviously caused deflation in the ball between the time they checked them pre-game and halftime. We all knew this before. Not sure how the fact that they didn't record each balls psi really matters. What matters is how or why they lost pressure. Some will claim it was atmospheric. Others claim they were tampered with. How does today's news change any of that? How can you claim it is now over unless of course you are a Pats fan?

With no measurements, and a known effect from the elements, it's going to be hard to get even a more likely than not ruling. To get to that relatively low bar of proof, you'd have to have a drop in pressure that was greater than the known drop created by the temperature drop.

Yes, correct. But we don't know it wasn't so it's tough to declare it's over. Say the ball measures pre-game at the very minimum of the limit at 12.5 psi. Assume through testing by the NFL or independent labs the known drop due to the weather and other conditions is 2 psi. If the balls at halftime measure less than 10.5, something else is going on, isn't it?

We can all agree to that. But since the league has now stated they didn't record the measurements, then we don't know that the balls at halftime were less than 10.5. We don't know what the starting or ending pressures were, Without that info, how can any fair judgement be made?That's why I think this is effectively over.

Agreed. We don't know that. But the presiding refs would know that.

 

[moleculo]

New Theory:

Patriots deliver woefully underinflated balls to refs pre-game, along with a note that says, "plz inflate to 12.5 psi. love you! xoxo" Ref says, "love you too, Billy. We'd love to make the balls exactly like Tommy likes them. Fantastic texture on these balls, by the way. I'm sure this took a lot of rubbing."

The Refs pump up the balls like they always do. The game proceeds, someone complains, refs have to check the balls. Because the balls were cold, they inadvertently discover the phenomenon colloquially known as shrinkage when they note that the pressure now reads 11.5 PSI. Balls are either replaced or re inflated, and the game continues.

After the game, someone mentions to Kravitz that the balls at halftime were 11.5 PSI. Kravitz says, "HOLY CWAP! Andy Lucky told me once that balls are suppoda be 13.5!!!!1!!one! This is ####### huge! I'm gonna get me a pulitzah yet!" (yes, in my head Kravitz has a weird accent and yells alot). So, after two or three scotches, he pounds away furiously at his keyboard, writing the Pats balls were 2 psi low.

The internet explodes, salty haters start doing science, salty homers start doing science, salty science is all of a sudden all over everywhere and we all get a nice lesson in the Ideal Gas Law, we are all reminded that absolute pressure <> gauge pressure, and we get a nice refresher in Kelvin temperature.

The NFL launches their investigation, but apparently the lead investigator is Barney Fife, working closely with Chief Wiggum. They do about 40 interviews, and reviewing a ton of security footage.

Later, Florio hears the balls are 11.5 PSI, and he corrects the record that it was actually one PSI, not two. The internet explodes again, salty haters do more science, salty homers do their science, salty videos are made, Belichick talks, Brady talks, and the salty homers start doing victory laps, high-fiving and ###-slapping each other as they go round and round.

Fife and Wiggum get pissed off that their gravy train is about to come to an end and they will have to go back to doing real work instead of cushy NFL mall-cop stuff. So, they leak that they have video of a ball boy sneaking into a room with the game balls. Salty haters rejoice, salty homers begin to cower again. More salty science is done, and more salty videos are made. There's sooo much salt. Salt just covering everything by now... like way more than 2 oz of salt.

Now, we find out that the refs didn't write anything down. So, the salty homers resume victory laps, high-fiving and ###-slapping the whole way.

I predict we haven't seen the end of this saga. There's still plenty of salt left in the shaker. The superbowl is certain to bring lots more salt, regardless of what happens in the game. Refs will now be forced to serialize each ball and record exact pressure gauges using a Swedish made ball pump, and they won't like that. They will probably blame their old flames Billy and Tommy, and all of the salty homers are sure to lament and gnash any flag thrown in the superbowl, and all of the salty homers will be quick to assume any dropped pass and/or fumble was a result of properly inflated balls. After all of that, the Fife and Wiggum report will be issued, and thats when the real salt comes out.

salt.

balls.

salty balls.

 

[mbuehner]

They didnt measure the balls pregame. Come on...

 

[BustedKnuckles]

This thread is already awesome, but if Brady has a bad game and the Pats have multiple fumbles with the checked SB balls this thread will be epic next week.

You'll have half the people saying "see Brady can't play without deflating the football" and the other half crying and cursing Goodell for causing the Pats to lose due to all of the distractions.

The second one would be legit.

Not really. Super Bowl week is a distraction for both teams anyway. If Pat fans use that as an excuse, that's all it will be. I don't think Belichik will be unprepared at all.

Did the NFL interrupt the Seahawks while they were trying to prepare, the same way they interrupted the Patriots?

In a statement, Patriots owner Robert Kraft said over the past three days the team has "provided access to every full- and part-time employee the league's representatives requested to speak with and produced every communication device that they requested to search."

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/12217564/nfl-conducting-investigation-claim-new-england-patriots-used-underinflated-footballs

Yeah I'm sure the NFL talking to the equipment manager and a security guard is the reason the Pats may lose on Sunday.

I didn't realize the equipment manager and security guard were on the the Patriots coaching staff.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/interception-tipped-colts-deflated-ball-report-article-1.2085314

If you want to use it as an excuse, I guess it's a win-win for you then.

the pats are going to take the frustration and disrespect of this situation out on the seahags...let the beatdown commence

 

[The Kerminator]

This thread is already awesome, but if Brady has a bad game and the Pats have multiple fumbles with the checked SB balls this thread will be epic next week.

You'll have half the people saying "see Brady can't play without deflating the football" and the other half crying and cursing Goodell for causing the Pats to lose due to all of the distractions.

The second one would be legit.

Not really. Super Bowl week is a distraction for both teams anyway. If Pat fans use that as an excuse, that's all it will be. I don't think Belichik will be unprepared at all.

Did the NFL interrupt the Seahawks while they were trying to prepare, the same way they interrupted the Patriots?

In a statement, Patriots owner Robert Kraft said over the past three days the team has "provided access to every full- and part-time employee the league's representatives requested to speak with and produced every communication device that they requested to search."

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/12217564/nfl-conducting-investigation-claim-new-england-patriots-used-underinflated-footballs

Yeah I'm sure the NFL talking to the equipment manager and a security guard is the reason the Pats may lose on Sunday.

I didn't realize the equipment manager and security guard were on the the Patriots coaching staff.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/interception-tipped-colts-deflated-ball-report-article-1.2085314

If you want to use it as an excuse, I guess it's a win-win for you then.

the pats are going to take the frustration and disrespect of this situation out on the seahags...let the beatdown commence

I hope so. Then this thread will get another 6000 posts. They still haven't let go the loss to the Steelers.

 

[General Tso]

New Theory:

Patriots deliver woefully underinflated balls to refs pre-game, along with a note that says, "plz inflate to 12.5 psi. love you! xoxo" Ref says, "love you too, Billy. We'd love to make the balls exactly like Tommy likes them. Fantastic texture on these balls, by the way. I'm sure this took a lot of rubbing."

The Refs pump up the balls like they always do. The game proceeds, someone complains, refs have to check the balls. Because the balls were cold, they inadvertently discover the phenomenon colloquially known as shrinkage when they note that the pressure now reads 11.5 PSI. Balls are either replaced or re inflated, and the game continues.

After the game, someone mentions to Kravitz that the balls at halftime were 11.5 PSI. Kravitz says, "HOLY CWAP! Andy Lucky told me once that balls are suppoda be 13.5!!!!1!!one! This is ####### huge! I'm gonna get me a pulitzah yet!" (yes, in my head Kravitz has a weird accent and yells alot). So, after two or three scotches, he pounds away furiously at his keyboard, writing the Pats balls were 2 psi low.

The internet explodes, salty haters start doing science, salty homers start doing science, salty science is all of a sudden all over everywhere and we all get a nice lesson in the Ideal Gas Law, we are all reminded that absolute pressure <> gauge pressure, and we get a nice refresher in Kelvin temperature.

The NFL launches their investigation, but apparently the lead investigator is Barney Fife, working closely with Chief Wiggum. They do about 40 interviews, and reviewing a ton of security footage.

Later, Florio hears the balls are 11.5 PSI, and he corrects the record that it was actually one PSI, not two. The internet explodes again, salty haters do more science, salty homers do their science, salty videos are made, Belichick talks, Brady talks, and the salty homers start doing victory laps, high-fiving and ###-slapping each other as they go round and round.

Fife and Wiggum get pissed off that their gravy train is about to come to an end and they will have to go back to doing real work instead of cushy NFL mall-cop stuff. So, they leak that they have video of a ball boy sneaking into a room with the game balls. Salty haters rejoice, salty homers begin to cower again. More salty science is done, and more salty videos are made. There's sooo much salt. Salt just covering everything by now... like way more than 2 oz of salt.

Now, we find out that the refs didn't write anything down. So, the salty homers resume victory laps, high-fiving and ###-slapping the whole way.

I predict we haven't seen the end of this saga. There's still plenty of salt left in the shaker. The superbowl is certain to bring lots more salt, regardless of what happens in the game. Refs will now be forced to serialize each ball and record exact pressure gauges using a Swedish made ball pump, and they won't like that. They will probably blame their old flames Billy and Tommy, and all of the salty homers are sure to lament and gnash any flag thrown in the superbowl, and all of the salty homers will be quick to assume any dropped pass and/or fumble was a result of properly inflated balls. After all of that, the Fife and Wiggum report will be issued, and thats when the real salt comes out.

salt.

balls.

salty balls.

Very nice! And probably very close to what actually happened.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

This thread is already awesome, but if Brady has a bad game and the Pats have multiple fumbles with the checked SB balls this thread will be epic next week.

You'll have half the people saying "see Brady can't play without deflating the football" and the other half crying and cursing Goodell for causing the Pats to lose due to all of the distractions.

The second one would be legit.

Not really. Super Bowl week is a distraction for both teams anyway. If Pat fans use that as an excuse, that's all it will be. I don't think Belichik will be unprepared at all.

Did the NFL interrupt the Seahawks while they were trying to prepare, the same way they interrupted the Patriots?

In a statement, Patriots owner Robert Kraft said over the past three days the team has "provided access to every full- and part-time employee the league's representatives requested to speak with and produced every communication device that they requested to search."

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/12217564/nfl-conducting-investigation-claim-new-england-patriots-used-underinflated-footballs

Yeah I'm sure the NFL talking to the equipment manager and a security guard is the reason the Pats may lose on Sunday.

I didn't realize the equipment manager and security guard were on the the Patriots coaching staff.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/interception-tipped-colts-deflated-ball-report-article-1.2085314

If you want to use it as an excuse, I guess it's a win-win for you then.

the pats are going to take the frustration and disrespect of this situation out on the seahags...let the beatdown commence

I hope so. Then this thread will get another 6000 posts. They still haven't let go the loss to the Steelers.

reports are they look crisp and ready at the practices this week...they are coming in riding a wave and the seahags never should have won that game vs GB ....its all about momentum and the pats have it right now

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

So the NFL has nothing? This was a fn witchhunt all along......

Are u fn kidding me?

Even if u hate the Patriots, this was total crap that they did not deserve; complete butt hurt Bal & Indy.