Patriots being investigated after Colts game (1 Viewer)

[Bayhawks]

I commented on your earlier posts (not that u care) where I felt you, like so many others, were 100% intent on burying NE based on rumor, perceived reputation and bias. Your latest post is definitely a step in the right direction in terms of at least considering the possibility that NE didn’t really do anything sinister.

Part I

I agree with a lot of what you wrote, but allow me to quibble on a few points and give my opinion on what I believe may have transpired.

I agree the NFL was probably lax in checking the balls and I don’t think Anderson even used a gauge. Like you, I think the league pretty much let each team play with the balls they wanted as long as they were close and felt right. This was not a problem for anyone until John Harbaugh became incensed at NE pushing the envelope with their formations and decided to get back at the Patriots by tipping off the Colts to a potential problem. The Colts having a history of losing and then whining to the league about it were only too happy to oblige. Both the Ravens and the Colts weren’t interested in preventing NE from using underinflated balls, no they couldn’t beat them on the field and wanted to setup a sting in order to hurt them as much as possible. So the Colts out of fear the refs might tip NE off never even gave the refs a heads up. This allowed the Colts to set the “trap”, but seriously undermined the validity of that trap.

Luck is on record as saying he likes the ball hard anyway and knowing they were setting a trap and the Indy balls were inflated to 13.5+ and maybe even done outdoors. NE probably submitted their balls at 13-13.5.

Here is where we differ a bit on what might have happened from there. You believe the NFL has had ample opportunity to make this go away and at first glance that might “appear” to be true, but on closer inspection there are at least 3 reasons why they couldn’t simply make it go away.

1. Spygate

2. The botched Ray Rice investigation

3. Mike Kensil.

Who the hell is Mike Kensil? From Barstool.com

"He is the former President of the Jets. He was there when Belichick turned in his resignation to come to the Pats. He was there during Spygate. His friends will tell you that he obsesses over his hatred of the Patriots. That he swore 1 day he’s get back at Belichick for leaving him the lurch and sending the Jets into a downward spiral of ineptitude and ruining his career.

Yes it is this Mike Kensil who is now Dir. of Football Operations at National Football League who was prowling the Colts sidelines last week. Yes it is this Mike Kensil, the former Jet with a longstanding grudge against the Patriots who was proactively looking for deflated footballs last week. It is the same Mike Kensil who whispered to Bob Kravitz in a dark tunnel of Gillette about deflated footballs. I’ve even heard rumors that he and the Colts equipment manager conspired to actually deflate the one football that came in at 10.5 PSI. The rest were closer to 11.5 PSI. It is this Mike Kensil who called Chris Mortensen to leak the story about Deflategate."

So even though there really isn’t anything here and the league desperately wanted to make it go away they couldn’t. Not with Spygate and all the suspicions that they acted too quickly and swept some things under the rug, not with the botched Ray Rice investigation where they actually did try to sweep it under the rug, and finally, not with a butt hurt vindictive Kensil determined to get back at NE driving the investigation.

Part II to come

I still think the drop in air pressure was a result of where the NE balls were inflated, then the cooler temps/rain outdoors causing the drop.That being said, you seem to be willing to overlook ( or ignore) some information to make Part I of your theory work.

The Colts were trying to set up the Pats, so they didn't tell the refs before the game (hence the failure to use a gauge to check the balls & record this data). Unfortunately, there was a link posted (somewhere in the previous 125 pages) that reported the Colts DID bring this to the refs attention before the game.

You sa y the Pats probably submitted their balls at 13-13.5. This would make the pressure drop less likely to be due to only atmospheric conditions, AND it contradicts what BBhimself said, which is that they give them to the refs, and if they are under 12.5, they tell the refs to make them 12.5.

I realize y ou think this is some grand conspiracy against your Pats, but it could just be a case of other teams thinking the Pats were cheating, and being wrong. Manipulating facts & ignoring info available will not change that.

Thanks, u r right, that was a typo on my part; I meant to say the Pats probably submitted their fballs at 12.5-13.5.

You say it was "reported" that the Colts told the refs ahead of time, maybe this is true, but if it is true why wouldn't the referees have been more careful and logged the ball check results? So the refs knew ahead of time that the balls would be checked at halftime and they didn't bother to record the results of the pre game check? That doesn't seem to make a lot of sense, do you think it makes sense?

I never claimed it was a grand conspiracy, the butt hurt Ravens & Colts and Kensil is not what I would call a "grand" conspiracy.

I did state from the beginning that this is my opinion and I could be wrong, but I don't believe I have intentionally manipulated facts or ignored any info that is widely thought to be true.

I can understand typos-hell, I double-quoted your post in my reply.

Butt-hurt ravens, butt-hurt Kensil, whiny Colts, sting operation; the use/belief in these things would (IMO) add up to a conspiracy belief. If you object to the word grand, then I will withdraw it.

As far as the report; it's in this thread, somewhere, but I'm not trying to search through 126 pages to find it. Basically, it said the issue of the suspicion of under-inflated balls was brought up by the Colts in a normal pre-game type of meeting teams have with officials. From what I recall, there wasn't any report of checking the balls again at half-time; that seemed to come about after the Brady INT & the Colts re-iterating their belief that hte football was under-inflated.

Again, IF this was some kind of sting/conspiracy; the refs WOULD HAVE used a gauge (each time the measured the balls), and they WOULD HAVE recorded the information.

That kind of act (when it's outside their normal practice) might indicate some kind of pre-planned sting/conspiracy. The absence of that act seems (IMO) to indicate that this is a case of the Colts believing (after their regular-season game, and then during/after the AFCC) that the Pats were cheating. IMO, that belief isn't accurate. The fact that it is the Pats, who don't have the best reputation (spygate, games with the injury report, unusual formations, etc) around the league has made it blow up more than it would have if we were talking about the Jags, Browns, Raiders, Redskins, etc.

You seem determined to put words in my mouth saying I claimed it was a conspiracy when I did not; I am not going to go around and around on it any longer.

I addressed your "report" point and didn't question that there was a "report", in fact I conceded that there was in fact a "report". I question the reports validity and I asked you one very reasonable and logical question which you simply ignored.

If, as you want to believe, this "report" is accurate and the colts told the refs pre game they wanted the balls checked at half time, please explain to me why the ref wouldn't have made sure to check and log the psi levels before the game? You believe the colts told the refs ahead of time they suspected the balls would be under inflated and Walt Anderson simply didn't think it might be a good idea to log the results of the pre game psi checks? Again I will ask, do you agree this scenario makes little sense? FWIW Dodds doesn't appear to agree with your theory either; the refs were either in the dark or over the top incompetent.

Really? Please see your original post above. I bolded/underlined/enlarged it for you.

Besides that, you said both the Ravens and the Colts "weren't interested in preventing the Pats from using under-inflated balls," Harbaugh "wanted to get back at the Pats by tipping off the Colts" (ignoring the fact that the Colts had already been suspicious of the Patriots footballs after their regular season game). So they "set up a sting in order to hurt them as much as possible." Then you said the Colts "set the trap" by not telling the refs (again, ignoring the fact that they DID bring this to the refs/NFLs attention). Then you said that you've "heard rumors that he (Mike Kensil) and the Colts equipment manager conspired to actually deflate the one football."

So, even if you didn't say conspiracy (which you did), what would you call it when two teams and and NFL official do a number of things behind the scenes in order to achieve a hidden goal ("hurt them as much as possible")? I think conspiracy would be a good term for that.

As to your question-I did answer it. The reason the refs didn't do anything out of the ordinary is because the request wasn't out of the ordinary. They said "we want to make sure the Pats balls are legal" (something along those lines), so the officials did what they normally do-which doesn't include recording the information, based on recent reports. I never said the reports asked the refs to check the balls at half-time, that was a result of the intercepted Brady pass. The report said the Colts brought the issue of under-inflated balls to the refs attention during a normal pre-game meeting with the teams.

Again, you seem to think there is more to this than there probably is. The Pats didn't cheat, they probably tried to get the balls as un-inflated as possible (12.5 PSI) and their preparation of those balls resulted in a slightly lower PSI after the refs checked them. They may have known this would have happened, they may not have. Other teams (Colts) were aware of this, and brought it to the officials attention. A Brady pass was intercepted, and someone on the Colts sideline thought it was light, and brought it to the NFL's attention. The NFL proceeded to screw it up from there.

You understand you bolded an excerpt from an article, right? So no again, I didn't say that. If you want to get into splitting hairs\semantics etc and describe it as such have at it, it's just a peeing contest at this point.

Speaking of peeing contest, you still didn't directly answer my question (it was a yes or no), but I will go with yes, you think the refs knew ahead of time that psi would be an issue, but they just never thought to properly check and record the psi results. We will have to agree to disagree on that, I think it is pretty far fetched to think the refs knew there might be an issue with ball psi and didn't think to record the results.

You claim "the reason the refs didn't do anything out of the ordinary is because the request wasn't out of the ordinary. They said "we want to make sure the Pats balls are legal" (something along those lines), "

I am not sure what you base that belief on? Admittedly I do not know for sure (I could be wrong ) but I believe it is far, far from the ordinary and had the refs known ahead of time they would have had their antennae up and immediately recognized the potential for a spit storm and they would have meticulously checked and logged the balls pre game. I think we can again agree to disagree.

We both appear to believe NE didn't cheat and I wish at this point we could just leave it at that, but something tells me neither of us are built like that

No, I didn't. My apologies.

To me, you citing a source that references a conspiracy, while you suggest that several NFL teams are working together to "hurt" the Patriots would be a conspiracy. If you don't agree, we can just agree to disagree.

Again, the report that my belief (and the information about the Colts pre-game request) is linked somewhere in this gigantic thread. I'm not going to look it up, but you are free to do so, if you want.

Agreed, we both think the Pats didn't cheat, I just don't seem to think anyone was "out to get them," causing this drama.

 

[Bayhawks]

Legal before legal halftime legal post game for colts

Legal before game illegal halftime and magically legal again after game not dropping g pressure this time for Pats

You all are naive

You literally don't know what you're talking about.You're ####ting out of your mouth.

Prove me wrong. You can't

Sooooooo.......

We should have hired Terry Bradshaw to be in charge of our football deflate cheating as he's the authority on it.

Except the only quotes he's given (in his book) about deflating footballs say that they (his Steelers) never did that.

 

[espnespn]

Or simply point out that theres no scandal and 9th grade physics classics explain everything adequately.

Except when physics only effect Pats balls. Lol. And that physics class assumes a fixed container not a rubber one that expands and contracts. This is not a 9th grade problem

If the Pats balls started at 12.5 and the Colts at 13.5, does that not entirely explain all the evidence available.

Highly unlikely. First of all most reports is they dropped 2 psi, so that would have dropped the Colts to 11.5 below the minimum. 2nd, why did none of the 24 balls used in the second half drop? None of them, drop in pressure?

3rd, using physics, the footballs in Green Bay last week would have looked like shriveled up raisins in the sub 20 degree weather compared to the warm air in NE at 51. Imagine how blown up the balls would get in the 100 degree fFlorida sun, where the temperature of the ball reaches 110 degrees?

a 20 degree drop from room temp to 51 degrees is nothing compared to the extremes that NFL balls see during the year, yet somehow it dropped nearly 15% of it's pressure for a measly 20 deg drop in temperature. Using that rate, imagine what the balls would have looked like in GB with a 50 degree drop in temp?

There is no physics at work here

Do you also believe the earth is flat?

Round in Indy and flat in NE. They have 2 sets of atmospheric physics at work why not earths ground

Cold weather makes football PSI drop. That is a scientific fact. It's easily proven, and here's a video showing it in action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxsXFX3tDpg

Do you think invisible gremlins deflated the footballs in this video?

 

[ROCKET]

Legal before legal halftime legal post game for colts

Legal before game illegal halftime and magically legal again after game not dropping g pressure this time for Pats

You all are naive

You literally don't know what you're talking about.You're ####ting out of your mouth.

Prove me wrong. You can't

Sooooooo.......

We should have hired Terry Bradshaw to be in charge of our football deflate cheating as he's the authority on it.

Except the only quotes he's given (in his book) about deflating footballs say that they (his Steelers) never did that.

Ok, keep telling yourself that.

 

[Vector]

Cheaters gonna cheat.

 

[Old Smiley]

wankers gonna wank

 

[Neofight]

Can't find a transcript either, but this article has some extended excerpts.

Here's a fun one:

* On changing the 12.5 to 13.5 PSI level:

Blandino: We really rely on the experts in the football world to give us that number, Wilson. That's where that spec comes from. I feel like we will review that with Wilson and the competition committee to look if do we need to have range and what should that acceptable range be. So that's something that will be discussed.

Notice what we're seeing here? Nothing about fairness. Nothing about a level playing field, or how a pound less would affect the integrity of the game. Just a manufacturers recommendation.

edit: Laughing because you don't know what else to do on three. Readyyyyy... Break!

Bad omen, Pats fans.

 

[Chaz McNulty]

Or simply point out that theres no scandal and 9th grade physics classics explain everything adequately.

Except when physics only effect Pats balls. Lol. And that physics class assumes a fixed container not a rubber one that expands and contracts. This is not a 9th grade problem

If the Pats balls started at 12.5 and the Colts at 13.5, does that not entirely explain all the evidence available.

Highly unlikely. First of all most reports is they dropped 2 psi, so that would have dropped the Colts to 11.5 below the minimum. 2nd, why did none of the 24 balls used in the second half drop? None of them, drop in pressure?

3rd, using physics, the footballs in Green Bay last week would have looked like shriveled up raisins in the sub 20 degree weather compared to the warm air in NE at 51. Imagine how blown up the balls would get in the 100 degree fFlorida sun, where the temperature of the ball reaches 110 degrees?

a 20 degree drop from room temp to 51 degrees is nothing compared to the extremes that NFL balls see during the year, yet somehow it dropped nearly 15% of it's pressure for a measly 20 deg drop in temperature. Using that rate, imagine what the balls would have looked like in GB with a 50 degree drop in temp?

There is no physics at work here

Do you also believe the earth is flat?

Round in Indy and flat in NE. They have 2 sets of atmospheric physics at work why not earths ground

Cold weather makes football PSI drop. That is a scientific fact. It's easily proven, and here's a video showing it in action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxsXFX3tDpg

Do you think invisible gremlins deflated the footballs in this video?

Smoke and mirrors. Obviously the guys let out some air while the camera was not shooting. I think that might have been NE_Revival in the video.

 

[GoodLloydHaveMercy]

These nested quotes - literally worse than Hitler.

Best Post of This Thread...

Speaking of hitler, can anyone remember how he tied his boots?

.

In Nazis

 

[Bad_Mo]

Bad mo. You commented on a post that said all test showed that the balls dropped by 2 psi in 15 minutes. If that's the case then no the colts balls could not have passed. Even set at the highest passable limit of 13.5, if the gas laws all suggest that it would drop 2 psi then the colts would have weighed in under the limit and failed the halftime I inspection too.

You are assuming the Colts balls were at 13.5, not 14.5 or something outside of the legal limit which was not "caught" on inspection. BTW...too much talk of 2 psi difference. Not true. Stop feeding into the lies.

 

[Vector]

wankers gonna wank

This must be very difficult for you, my sympathies. Keep your head up though, at some point your team will end it's cheating ways and you can be proud of them again.

 

[Bad_Mo]

Pretty funny that two weeks after Brady got all bishy with Harbaugh about reading the rule book we've got Pats fans arguing that it doesn't matter.

Where did the Pats not follow the rule book in this instance?

Yes, yes -- carry on. You'll probably manage to convince each other in another 125 pages or so.

How about we hear the facts before jumping to conclusions that a rule was broken. Harbawawawa got out coached with the subs and looked like the crybaby he is. I expect you to eat crow if there was no rule broken...wait. That will never happen.

 

[GoodLloydHaveMercy]

Saw this earlier today and I think it sums up how I feel........

"...my biggest concern is in regard to the league's lack of transparency (particularly when it comes to Roger Goodell and his too-cozy relationship with some of the more influential owners). I also think it is something more than coincidence that 11 of 12 of NE's footballs were underinflated while the Colt's footballs checked out within tolerances. That said, I am not entirely convinced that the underinflated balls represented a significant advantage on the field; at least not on a game by game basis -- perhaps over a period of time. What I really think this shows (again) is the level of PR damage that the NFL repeatedly suffers is largely self-inflicted. You let the teams "prepare" the balls prior to the game; let the home team's personnel have custody of the balls after inspection; and then use different balls for each team... seriously? They don't do that in baseball -- it would be unthinkable. To make matters worse, when trouble breaks out you have the NFL conducting its own internal investigation headed up by Roger Goodell -- the man who personally destroyed the SpyGate Tapes! Even if nothing untoward is happening, the way the NFL conducts business guarantees that "salty haters" (like me) can trade in conspiracy theories forever. The owner's like Roger Goodell because the game is growing and making money. I believe that the game would do that anyway. It was the most popular pasttime in the US before Goodell took over, and its explosive growth over the past 10 years is due to fantasy football, Madden, Redzone channel, NFL Network, and Sunday Ticket ... none of which have bumpkus to do with Goodell's management. The owners need to clean house. Like baseball following the BlackSox scandal, they need an independent, credible commissioner to maintain the public perception of fairness and impartiality."

So all of us haters can continue to be haters and all you fanboys can continue to flaunt your success... NFL is always better with a villain. Even when the Boys were winning in the early 90s what made the game great was that everyone had an opinion one way or another regarding the cowboys

 

[PatsWillWin]

I am surprised this thread is still going. Do people still think anything happened?

 

[PatsWillWin]

Or simply point out that theres no scandal and 9th grade physics classics explain everything adequately.

Except when physics only effect Pats balls. Lol. And that physics class assumes a fixed container not a rubber one that expands and contracts. This is not a 9th grade problem

If the Pats balls started at 12.5 and the Colts at 13.5, does that not entirely explain all the evidence available.

Highly unlikely. First of all most reports is they dropped 2 psi, so that would have dropped the Colts to 11.5 below the minimum. 2nd, why did none of the 24 balls used in the second half drop? None of them, drop in pressure?

3rd, using physics, the footballs in Green Bay last week would have looked like shriveled up raisins in the sub 20 degree weather compared to the warm air in NE at 51. Imagine how blown up the balls would get in the 100 degree fFlorida sun, where the temperature of the ball reaches 110 degrees?

a 20 degree drop from room temp to 51 degrees is nothing compared to the extremes that NFL balls see during the year, yet somehow it dropped nearly 15% of it's pressure for a measly 20 deg drop in temperature. Using that rate, imagine what the balls would have looked like in GB with a 50 degree drop in temp?

There is no physics at work here

Do you also believe the earth is flat?

Round in Indy and flat in NE. They have 2 sets of atmospheric physics at work why not earths ground

Cold weather makes football PSI drop. That is a scientific fact. It's easily proven, and here's a video showing it in action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxsXFX3tDpg

Do you think invisible gremlins deflated the footballs in this video?

Smoke and mirrors. Obviously the guys let out some air while the camera was not shooting. I think that might have been NE_Revival in the video.

Why are people still quoting the 2 PSI thing? 2 PSI from what? The NFL never freaking measured the,.

Look people, I'm sorry your teams are all on the golf course and the Patriots are in their second decade of awesomeness. Maybe join a couple of dynasty leagues. Go outside, etc.

 

[GoodLloydHaveMercy]

So this is how I'd like it to go now... NFL decides Altered footballs means a 25k fine... No other punishment... That way haters can continue to hate (or wankers can wank... Although I suppose that's not abt ball pressure at all) and fanboys can continue to "fanboy"

See now it's a verb... A double entendre that gives a hater like me some joy

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

I commented on your earlier posts (not that u care) where I felt you, like so many others, were 100% intent on burying NE based on rumor, perceived reputation and bias. Your latest post is definitely a step in the right direction in terms of at least considering the possibility that NE didn’t really do anything sinister.

Part I

I agree with a lot of what you wrote, but allow me to quibble on a few points and give my opinion on what I believe may have transpired.

I agree the NFL was probably lax in checking the balls and I don’t think Anderson even used a gauge. Like you, I think the league pretty much let each team play with the balls they wanted as long as they were close and felt right. This was not a problem for anyone until John Harbaugh became incensed at NE pushing the envelope with their formations and decided to get back at the Patriots by tipping off the Colts to a potential problem. The Colts having a history of losing and then whining to the league about it were only too happy to oblige. Both the Ravens and the Colts weren’t interested in preventing NE from using underinflated balls, no they couldn’t beat them on the field and wanted to setup a sting in order to hurt them as much as possible. So the Colts out of fear the refs might tip NE off never even gave the refs a heads up. This allowed the Colts to set the “trap”, but seriously undermined the validity of that trap.

Luck is on record as saying he likes the ball hard anyway and knowing they were setting a trap and the Indy balls were inflated to 13.5+ and maybe even done outdoors. NE probably submitted their balls at 13-13.5.

Here is where we differ a bit on what might have happened from there. You believe the NFL has had ample opportunity to make this go away and at first glance that might “appear” to be true, but on closer inspection there are at least 3 reasons why they couldn’t simply make it go away.

1. Spygate

2. The botched Ray Rice investigation

3. Mike Kensil.

Who the hell is Mike Kensil? From Barstool.com

"He is the former President of the Jets. He was there when Belichick turned in his resignation to come to the Pats. He was there during Spygate. His friends will tell you that he obsesses over his hatred of the Patriots. That he swore 1 day he’s get back at Belichick for leaving him the lurch and sending the Jets into a downward spiral of ineptitude and ruining his career.

Yes it is this Mike Kensil who is now Dir. of Football Operations at National Football League who was prowling the Colts sidelines last week. Yes it is this Mike Kensil, the former Jet with a longstanding grudge against the Patriots who was proactively looking for deflated footballs last week. It is the same Mike Kensil who whispered to Bob Kravitz in a dark tunnel of Gillette about deflated footballs. I’ve even heard rumors that he and the Colts equipment manager conspired to actually deflate the one football that came in at 10.5 PSI. The rest were closer to 11.5 PSI. It is this Mike Kensil who called Chris Mortensen to leak the story about Deflategate."

So even though there really isn’t anything here and the league desperately wanted to make it go away they couldn’t. Not with Spygate and all the suspicions that they acted too quickly and swept some things under the rug, not with the botched Ray Rice investigation where they actually did try to sweep it under the rug, and finally, not with a butt hurt vindictive Kensil determined to get back at NE driving the investigation.

Part II to come

I still think the drop in air pressure was a result of where the NE balls were inflated, then the cooler temps/rain outdoors causing the drop.That being said, you seem to be willing to overlook ( or ignore) some information to make Part I of your theory work.

The Colts were trying to set up the Pats, so they didn't tell the refs before the game (hence the failure to use a gauge to check the balls & record this data). Unfortunately, there was a link posted (somewhere in the previous 125 pages) that reported the Colts DID bring this to the refs attention before the game.

You sa y the Pats probably submitted their balls at 13-13.5. This would make the pressure drop less likely to be due to only atmospheric conditions, AND it contradicts what BBhimself said, which is that they give them to the refs, and if they are under 12.5, they tell the refs to make them 12.5.

I realize y ou think this is some grand conspiracy against your Pats, but it could just be a case of other teams thinking the Pats were cheating, and being wrong. Manipulating facts & ignoring info available will not change that.

Thanks, u r right, that was a typo on my part; I meant to say the Pats probably submitted their fballs at 12.5-13.5.

You say it was "reported" that the Colts told the refs ahead of time, maybe this is true, but if it is true why wouldn't the referees have been more careful and logged the ball check results? So the refs knew ahead of time that the balls would be checked at halftime and they didn't bother to record the results of the pre game check? That doesn't seem to make a lot of sense, do you think it makes sense?

I never claimed it was a grand conspiracy, the butt hurt Ravens & Colts and Kensil is not what I would call a "grand" conspiracy.

I did state from the beginning that this is my opinion and I could be wrong, but I don't believe I have intentionally manipulated facts or ignored any info that is widely thought to be true.

I can understand typos-hell, I double-quoted your post in my reply.

Butt-hurt ravens, butt-hurt Kensil, whiny Colts, sting operation; the use/belief in these things would (IMO) add up to a conspiracy belief. If you object to the word grand, then I will withdraw it.

As far as the report; it's in this thread, somewhere, but I'm not trying to search through 126 pages to find it. Basically, it said the issue of the suspicion of under-inflated balls was brought up by the Colts in a normal pre-game type of meeting teams have with officials. From what I recall, there wasn't any report of checking the balls again at half-time; that seemed to come about after the Brady INT & the Colts re-iterating their belief that hte football was under-inflated.

Again, IF this was some kind of sting/conspiracy; the refs WOULD HAVE used a gauge (each time the measured the balls), and they WOULD HAVE recorded the information.

That kind of act (when it's outside their normal practice) might indicate some kind of pre-planned sting/conspiracy. The absence of that act seems (IMO) to indicate that this is a case of the Colts believing (after their regular-season game, and then during/after the AFCC) that the Pats were cheating. IMO, that belief isn't accurate. The fact that it is the Pats, who don't have the best reputation (spygate, games with the injury report, unusual formations, etc) around the league has made it blow up more than it would have if we were talking about the Jags, Browns, Raiders, Redskins, etc.

You seem determined to put words in my mouth saying I claimed it was a conspiracy when I did not; I am not going to go around and around on it any longer.

I addressed your "report" point and didn't question that there was a "report", in fact I conceded that there was in fact a "report". I question the reports validity and I asked you one very reasonable and logical question which you simply ignored.

If, as you want to believe, this "report" is accurate and the colts told the refs pre game they wanted the balls checked at half time, please explain to me why the ref wouldn't have made sure to check and log the psi levels before the game? You believe the colts told the refs ahead of time they suspected the balls would be under inflated and Walt Anderson simply didn't think it might be a good idea to log the results of the pre game psi checks? Again I will ask, do you agree this scenario makes little sense? FWIW Dodds doesn't appear to agree with your theory either; the refs were either in the dark or over the top incompetent.

Really? Please see your original post above. I bolded/underlined/enlarged it for you.

Besides that, you said both the Ravens and the Colts "weren't interested in preventing the Pats from using under-inflated balls," Harbaugh "wanted to get back at the Pats by tipping off the Colts" (ignoring the fact that the Colts had already been suspicious of the Patriots footballs after their regular season game). So they "set up a sting in order to hurt them as much as possible." Then you said the Colts "set the trap" by not telling the refs (again, ignoring the fact that they DID bring this to the refs/NFLs attention). Then you said that you've "heard rumors that he (Mike Kensil) and the Colts equipment manager conspired to actually deflate the one football."

So, even if you didn't say conspiracy (which you did), what would you call it when two teams and and NFL official do a number of things behind the scenes in order to achieve a hidden goal ("hurt them as much as possible")? I think conspiracy would be a good term for that.

As to your question-I did answer it. The reason the refs didn't do anything out of the ordinary is because the request wasn't out of the ordinary. They said "we want to make sure the Pats balls are legal" (something along those lines), so the officials did what they normally do-which doesn't include recording the information, based on recent reports. I never said the reports asked the refs to check the balls at half-time, that was a result of the intercepted Brady pass. The report said the Colts brought the issue of under-inflated balls to the refs attention during a normal pre-game meeting with the teams.

Again, you seem to think there is more to this than there probably is. The Pats didn't cheat, they probably tried to get the balls as un-inflated as possible (12.5 PSI) and their preparation of those balls resulted in a slightly lower PSI after the refs checked them. They may have known this would have happened, they may not have. Other teams (Colts) were aware of this, and brought it to the officials attention. A Brady pass was intercepted, and someone on the Colts sideline thought it was light, and brought it to the NFL's attention. The NFL proceeded to screw it up from there.

You understand you bolded an excerpt from an article, right? So no again, I didn't say that. If you want to get into splitting hairs\semantics etc and describe it as such have at it, it's just a peeing contest at this point.

Speaking of peeing contest, you still didn't directly answer my question (it was a yes or no), but I will go with yes, you think the refs knew ahead of time that psi would be an issue, but they just never thought to properly check and record the psi results. We will have to agree to disagree on that, I think it is pretty far fetched to think the refs knew there might be an issue with ball psi and didn't think to record the results.

You claim "the reason the refs didn't do anything out of the ordinary is because the request wasn't out of the ordinary. They said "we want to make sure the Pats balls are legal" (something along those lines), "

I am not sure what you base that belief on? Admittedly I do not know for sure (I could be wrong ) but I believe it is far, far from the ordinary and had the refs known ahead of time they would have had their antennae up and immediately recognized the potential for a spit storm and they would have meticulously checked and logged the balls pre game. I think we can again agree to disagree.

We both appear to believe NE didn't cheat and I wish at this point we could just leave it at that, but something tells me neither of us are built like that

No, I didn't. My apologies.

To me, you citing a source that references a conspiracy, while you suggest that several NFL teams are working together to "hurt" the Patriots would be a conspiracy. If you don't agree, we can just agree to disagree.

Again, the report that my belief (and the information about the Colts pre-game request) is linked somewhere in this gigantic thread. I'm not going to look it up, but you are free to do so, if you want.

Agreed, we both think the Pats didn't cheat, I just don't seem to think anyone was "out to get them," causing this drama.

I remember the report u r talking about, just not sure about the validity of it, but its all good and our exchange probably ended about as well as it could; no probs.

 

[mbuehner]

So this is how I'd like it to go now... NFL decides Altered footballs means a 25k fine... No other punishment... That way haters can continue to hate (or wankers can wank... Although I suppose that's not abt ball pressure at all) and fanboys can continue to "fanboy"

See now it's a verb... A double entendre that gives a hater like me some joy

What altered footballs?

 

[espnespn]

Or simply point out that theres no scandal and 9th grade physics classics explain everything adequately.

Except when physics only effect Pats balls. Lol. And that physics class assumes a fixed container not a rubber one that expands and contracts. This is not a 9th grade problem

If the Pats balls started at 12.5 and the Colts at 13.5, does that not entirely explain all the evidence available.

Highly unlikely. First of all most reports is they dropped 2 psi, so that would have dropped the Colts to 11.5 below the minimum. 2nd, why did none of the 24 balls used in the second half drop? None of them, drop in pressure?

3rd, using physics, the footballs in Green Bay last week would have looked like shriveled up raisins in the sub 20 degree weather compared to the warm air in NE at 51. Imagine how blown up the balls would get in the 100 degree fFlorida sun, where the temperature of the ball reaches 110 degrees?

a 20 degree drop from room temp to 51 degrees is nothing compared to the extremes that NFL balls see during the year, yet somehow it dropped nearly 15% of it's pressure for a measly 20 deg drop in temperature. Using that rate, imagine what the balls would have looked like in GB with a 50 degree drop in temp?

There is no physics at work here

Do you also believe the earth is flat?

Round in Indy and flat in NE. They have 2 sets of atmospheric physics at work why not earths ground

Cold weather makes football PSI drop. That is a scientific fact. It's easily proven, and here's a video showing it in action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxsXFX3tDpg

Do you think invisible gremlins deflated the footballs in this video?

Smoke and mirrors. Obviously the guys let out some air while the camera was not shooting. I think that might have been NE_Revival in the video.

Only delusional people believe that cold weather doesn't lower air pressure. Or people who are high school dropouts and flunked basic high school science.

"The heat of summer has faded, replaced by cool nights and mornings. Eventually, many areas of the country will be faced with consistently chilly, even sub-freezing temperatures.

This time of year serves as a reminder that a drop in tire inflation pressures corresponds with the falling thermometer readings. Goodyear experts explain that air pressure in a tire typically goes down 1-2 pounds for every 10 degrees of temperature change."

http://www.goodyear.com/cfmx/web/corporate/media/news/story.cfm?a_id=371

Or maybe you believe that Goodyear Tires is secretly deflating tires overnight on people's cars every winter?

 

[mbuehner]

It took 127 pages but we finally got Godwins Law and Poes Law in the same page.

 

[12punch]

I am surprised this thread is still going. Do people still think anything happened?

people didn't think anything happened on page 2

 

[12punch]

These nested quotes - literally worse than Hitler.

yeah, try it on your phone

 

[T J]

I am surprised this thread is still going. Do people still think anything happened?

Ummmm.......ya, I do.

 

[cstu]

I am surprised this thread is still going. Do people still think anything happened?

Joe Montana thinks so.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Or simply point out that theres no scandal and 9th grade physics classics explain everything adequately.

Except when physics only effect Pats balls. Lol. And that physics class assumes a fixed container not a rubber one that expands and contracts. This is not a 9th grade problem

If the Pats balls started at 12.5 and the Colts at 13.5, does that not entirely explain all the evidence available.

3rd, using physics, the footballs in Green Bay last week would have looked like shriveled up raisins in the sub 20 degree weather compared to the warm air in NE at 51. Imagine how blown up the balls would get in the 100 degree fFlorida sun, where the temperature of the ball reaches 110 degrees?

not sure if i should laugh or cry here.

 

[12punch]

Or simply point out that theres no scandal and 9th grade physics classics explain everything adequately.

Except when physics only effect Pats balls. Lol. And that physics class assumes a fixed container not a rubber one that expands and contracts. This is not a 9th grade problem

If the Pats balls started at 12.5 and the Colts at 13.5, does that not entirely explain all the evidence available.

3rd, using physics, the footballs in Green Bay last week would have looked like shriveled up raisins in the sub 20 degree weather compared to the warm air in NE at 51. Imagine how blown up the balls would get in the 100 degree fFlorida sun, where the temperature of the ball reaches 110 degrees?

not sure if i should laugh or cry here.

yeah, I think we learned a lot more than we wanted to about a certain segment of the public

 

[GoBirds]

I am surprised this thread is still going. Do people still think anything happened?

Something happened, but I am also surprised this is still going wow.

 

[mbuehner]

I am surprised this thread is still going. Do people still think anything happened?

Joe Montana thinks so.

Wade Boggs disagrees.

 

[fantasycurse42]

After reading through about 5-6 pages of this disaster, I think everyone in this thread needs to take a few deep breaths, a quick look in the mirror, maybe splash some water in the face, and then jump out the window.

Good luck to you all, may god have mercy on your souls.

 

[Bad_Mo]

Caution...language is strong. Boston Strong!

http://www.m#######s...face-video.html

 

[KarmaPolice]

Or simply point out that theres no scandal and 9th grade physics classics explain everything adequately.

Except when physics only effect Pats balls. Lol. And that physics class assumes a fixed container not a rubber one that expands and contracts. This is not a 9th grade problem

If the Pats balls started at 12.5 and the Colts at 13.5, does that not entirely explain all the evidence available.

3rd, using physics, the footballs in Green Bay last week would have looked like shriveled up raisins in the sub 20 degree weather compared to the warm air in NE at 51. Imagine how blown up the balls would get in the 100 degree fFlorida sun, where the temperature of the ball reaches 110 degrees?

not sure if i should laugh or cry here.

yeah, I think we learned a lot more than we wanted to about a certain segment of the public

Steeler fans?

 

[General Tso]

I am surprised this thread is still going. Do people still think anything happened?

I'm still waiting to find out who killed Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman.

 

[Bossman]

I am surprised this thread is still going. Do people still think anything happened?

I'm still waiting to find out who killed Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman.

"If it doesn't fit .... you must acquit."

.

Too bad there was only TONS of circumstantial evidence ... like in this case.

 

[crowe1130]

Wow, this topic makes the in-season Josh Gordon thread look good. I didn't think that was possible.

 

[[icon]]

Caution...language is strong. Boston Strong!



http://www.m#######s...face-video.html

Just won the internet

 

[Bad_Mo]

I am surprised this thread is still going. Do people still think anything happened?

Joe Montana thinks so.

He should stick to peddling pizza and stop trying his best to keep Brady from taking his spot as best QB ever.

 

[12punch]

I am surprised this thread is still going. Do people still think anything happened?

Joe Montana thinks so.

sounds like jealousy to me

montana knows who the goat is

 

[stbugs]

I am surprised this thread is still going. Do people still think anything happened?

I'm still waiting to find out who killed Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman.

"If it doesn't fit .... you must acquit."

.

Too bad there was only TONS of circumstantial evidence ... like in this case.

Really? So BB and Brady led Goodell and the NFL officials on a high speed chase? Were there footprints next to a needle used to deflate the balls that matched $3000 sneakers that BB has said he doesn't own, but we found a receipt in his house for the same size as the footprint? Were their PSI burn marks in Brady's locker that matched being too close to the little rubber valve 2 pounds of highly volatile air? Was Robert Kraft seen leaving Foxboro to go home to his daughters Kim, Kourtney and Kloe with a bag that contained the tarp that hid BB and Brady under to avoid video cameras and NFL officials while they deflated balls on the sidelines?

By the way, could you list the TONS of circumstantial evidence?

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I am surprised this thread is still going. Do people still think anything happened?

I'm still waiting to find out who killed Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman.

"If it doesn't fit .... you must acquit.".

Too bad there was only TONS of circumstantial evidence ... like in this case.

While I'm not saying this in anyway having to do with the Patriots "TONS of circumstantial evidence" could be enough to find a defendant guilty even in a cirminal case. The problem in the OJ case was the creation of a reasonable doubt based n the theory that the police had an inerrant racial bias that may have caused some of the evidence to have been planted. Of course it's debateable if that should have been enough or credible.

 

[the moops]

This is well done

Deflate Gate & Why Science Says the Patriots Did …: http://youtu.be/2VU5h-rCi74

 

[HobbesAB]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000466783/article/more-details-on-the-investigation-of-patriots-deflated-footballs

For much of the past two weeks, the Patriots have faced questions about whether they used deliberately deflated footballs in the AFC title game win over the Colts, eventually leading the NFL to tap Ted Wells to launch an investigation that will take several more weeks.

While owner Robert Kraft and every other member of the Patriots have declared innocence, Commissioner Roger Goodell said Friday that, "we have made no judgments" thus far.

But over the course of the last two weeks, multiple sources have shed light on the situation surrounding the Patriots, their 12 game-day footballs, and deflation. Here is what they've said:

>> Prior to the game, a game-day worker employed by the Patriots, a man described as elderly, took two bags of 12 footballs (one bag from each team) into the restroom near the referees' room in Gillette Stadium. The man was in the room for 98 seconds. When he exited the room, he took the balls to the field. There is video of the man entering and exiting the bathroom, but it's unclear if there is a clear shot inside the restroom.

>> That the man entered the restroom prior to walking with the footballs onto the field was discovered by the Patriots, and video footage was quickly turned over to Ted Wells for his investigation.

>> When coach Bill Belichick and Tom Brady were told there were questions about the footballs, both were incredulous. Belichick indicated privately what he said publicly: That he had little knowledge of what went into pregame footballs. Brady told someone close to him that he works on the footballs all week, then has no idea what happens to them on gameday.

>> Eleven of the 12 footballs used in the first half were judged by the officials to be under the minimum of 12.5 PSI, but just one was two pounds under. Many of them were just a few ticks under the minimum.

>> Many of the footballs used in the AFC title game, which all have Walt Anderson's initials on them, were returned to circulation among the rest of the Patriots game-day footballs. Because Anderson was the referee for two other Patriots games this season, there are more than 30 footballs with his initials in the team's possession. It appears the league has the football <a data-ipb="nomediaparse" data-cke-saved-href="http://www.nfl.com/player/d" href="http://www.nfl.com/player/d" qwelljackson="" 2506889="" profile"="">D'Qwell Jackson intercepted and took to the sidelines to ultimately hand over to his equipment staff.

 

[Run It Up]

Yeah Rapaport just said, one was close to 2 lbs under 3-4 were near 1 lbs under and the rest were barely under 12.5...

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Eleven of the 12 footballs used in the first half were judged by the officials to be under the minimum of 12.5 PSI, but just one was two pounds under. Many of them were just a few ticks under the minimum.

That's a pretty big point if true.

 

[ROCKET]

An elderly guy had to take a leak on the way to the field? I can't believe it.

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000466783/article/more-details-on-the-investigation-of-patriots-deflated-footballs

For much of the past two weeks, the Patriots have faced questions about whether they used deliberately deflated footballs in the AFC title game win over the Colts, eventually leading the NFL to tap Ted Wells to launch an investigation that will take several more weeks.

While owner Robert Kraft and every other member of the Patriots have declared innocence, Commissioner Roger Goodell said Friday that, "we have made no judgments" thus far.

But over the course of the last two weeks, multiple sources have shed light on the situation surrounding the Patriots, their 12 game-day footballs, and deflation. Here is what they've said:

>> Prior to the game, a game-day worker employed by the Patriots, a man described as elderly, took two bags of 12 footballs (one bag from each team) into the restroom near the referees' room in Gillette Stadium. The man was in the room for 98 seconds. When he exited the room, he took the balls to the field. There is video of the man entering and exiting the bathroom, but it's unclear if there is a clear shot inside the restroom.

>> That the man entered the restroom prior to walking with the footballs onto the field was discovered by the Patriots, and video footage was quickly turned over to Ted Wells for his investigation.

>> When coach Bill Belichick and Tom Brady were told there were questions about the footballs, both were incredulous. Belichick indicated privately what he said publicly: That he had little knowledge of what went into pregame footballs. Brady told someone close to him that he works on the footballs all week, then has no idea what happens to them on gameday.

>> Eleven of the 12 footballs used in the first half were judged by the officials to be under the minimum of 12.5 PSI, but just one was two pounds under. Many of them were just a few ticks under the minimum.

>> Many of the footballs used in the AFC title game, which all have Walt Anderson's initials on them, were returned to circulation among the rest of the Patriots game-day footballs. Because Anderson was the referee for two other Patriots games this season, there are more than 30 footballs with his initials in the team's possession. It appears the league has the football <a data-ipb="nomediaparse" data-cke-saved-href="http://www.nfl.com/player/d" href="http://www.nfl.com/player/d" qwelljackson="" 2506889="" profile"="">D'Qwell Jackson intercepted and took to the sidelines to ultimately hand over to his equipment staff.

This really is unfreakin believable that they put us thru all this #### and in the end they have only 1 ball significantly under, the one handled by the colts.

This whole thing was BS.............

 

[12punch]

Looooool Gitcher Clown Suits Back On, Salty trolls

 

[HobbesAB]

Only one ball was two pounds under the legal minimum. That was the football that Jackson intercepted? I hope Wells is looking into the Colts if that's the case.

 

[12punch]

An elderly guy had to take a leak on the way to the field? I can't believe it.

prostategate

 

[Old Smiley]

Explains why he took the full 90 seconds, too.

 

[General Tso]

Only one ball was two pounds under the legal minimum. That was the football that Jackson intercepted? I hope Wells is looking into the Colts if that's the case.

Yes it is. And no, the Colts will not be investigated for it.