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Patriots being investigated after Colts game (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter HobbesAB
- Start date
I appreciate the serious response, but just checking one name randomly I came up with this:General Tso said:
"No, I'm not talking about Deflategate. (My buddy Steve Czaban has the definitive call on that. Short version: Yes, they did it. Long version: No, we shouldn't really care.)"
Czaban apparently made it clear he thinks the Patriots are guilty. That salty hater...
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NE_REVIVAL
Footballguy
Again I will ask.Tango said:
Maybe I missed it and I apologize in advance if I did, but Just for the record, how many national media commented on the Costa interview and specifically said on the record "that it casts serious doubt on Brady's knowledge of balls deflating"?
One? Two? Five? Ten? a Hundred?
Who were they?
Are they still saying it now?
Bueller?
Bueller?
Haha, more ignorant Salty Hatred. Just because you don't understand basic high school science, doesn't make it untrue.
Also, pointing to some NFL insiders who think the Patriots deflated (and who don't believe that cold weather caused the PSI drop) proves nothing. Other than proving that those people also lack a basic understanding of science.
Until there's solid evidence that the Patriots deflated (or if there was a large PSI drop), a small PSI drop is easily explained by science because it occurs naturally.
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Haha, more ignorant Salty Hatred. Just because you don't understand basic high school science, doesn't make it untrue.
Also, pointing to some NFL insiders who think the Patriots deflated (and who don't believe that cold weather caused the PSI drop) proves nothing. Other than proving that those people also lack a basic understanding of science.
Until there's solid evidence that the Patriots deflated (or if there was a large PSI drop), a small PSI drop is easily explained by science because it occurs naturally.
Have we been talking about whether I think the Patriots are guilty of deflating the ball during the AFC Championship Game?
We really havent.
Why the change of subject?
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Links have been posted, go find them.
Here's another w/ my underline and bold:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/ct-sherman-media-super-bowl-spt-0202-20150201-column.html
"The Patriots QB sure sounded guilty based on his non-answers to Costas' pointed questions."
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NE_REVIVAL
Footballguy
Umm, shouting doesn't make you right; in fact it exposes the weakness in your arguement.
I asked fair questions and you can't\choose not to answer them.
You provided not a single name and the one link you managed to provide is broken (im not paying to read it) but whoever you quoted apparently did say something close to what u r claiming so ill give you a count of one. We have now determined that the # of nfl media you are referring to is one? Um, ok
big win for you.So we have moved on to the point where we all feel there is probably not much to see here and antagonists such as yourself are trying to save face by arguing about what one (two) people in the media believed and didn't believe at certain points of the investigation; Ok u win, one or 2 people said what you claim they said, so efn what? Go away.........
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Collinsworth, Costas, Michaels, Sherman, etc.NE_REVIVAL said:Umm, shouting doesn't make you right; in fact it exposes the weakness in your arguement.Tango said:
I asked fair questions and you can't\choose not to answer them.
You provided not a single name and the one link you managed to provide is broken (im not paying to read it) but whoever you quoted apparently did say something close to what u r claiming so ill give you a count of one. We have now determined that the # of nfl media you are referring to is one? Um, ok
So we have moved on to the point where we all feel there is probably not much to see here and antagonists such as yourself are trying to save face by arguing about what one (two) people in the media believed and didn't believe at certain points of the investigation; Ok u win, one or 2 people said what you claim they said, so efn what? Go away.........
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/ct-sherman-media-super-bowl-spt-0202-20150201-column.html
Sherman:
"The Patriots QB sure sounded guilty based on his non-answers to Costas' pointed questions."
"Cris Collinsworth clearly wasn't buying, saying the interview raised doubts about Brady's innocence."
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Great fishing job Tango. Well done, no one could hang their head on "non-answers" proving guilt with no other proof, in fact more proof to the contrary of deflation, and continue to keep up the anti-Brady fight. I applaud the fishing and the persistence. Most trolls would have given up by now. Bravo.
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...all the stuff that Ive written in here that supports the theory that the Patriots were thrown under the bus, particularly by John Harbaugh, has been ignored by people like you stbugs.
That was unique info that is sitting in the public realm that the press never reported on; they just reported a portion of it. That line of thinking and all the posts that went into to contributes to understanding how the dots were connected in this story and it creates a narrative of what might-turn-out-to-be a portion of the driving force for this whole episode that is rooted in Harbaugh's misplaced vengeance.
Instead you take just pieces that are negative or can be perceived as negative and try to argue it to the death.
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NE_REVIVAL
Footballguy
Trying to confirm the 4 names with the quotes you are attributing to them (sherman?), but unfortunately the link you provided still isn't working for non subscribers. Will be out for the night, maybe there will be a working one when I get back...Collinsworth, Costas, Michaels, Sherman, etc.NE_REVIVAL said:Umm, shouting doesn't make you right; in fact it exposes the weakness in your arguement.Tango said:
I asked fair questions and you can't\choose not to answer them.
You provided not a single name and the one link you managed to provide is broken (im not paying to read it) but whoever you quoted apparently did say something close to what u r claiming so ill give you a count of one. We have now determined that the # of nfl media you are referring to is one? Um, ok
So we have moved on to the point where we all feel there is probably not much to see here and antagonists such as yourself are trying to save face by arguing about what one (two) people in the media believed and didn't believe at certain points of the investigation; Ok u win, one or 2 people said what you claim they said, so efn what? Go away.........
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/ct-sherman-media-super-bowl-spt-0202-20150201-column.html
Sherman:
"The Patriots QB sure sounded guilty based on his non-answers to Costas' pointed questions."
"Cris Collinsworth clearly wasn't buying, saying the interview raised doubts about Brady's innocence."
Um, you are talking about whether some NFL insiders/reporters think the Patriots deflated. And then you glom onto their opinions, saying that they must be correct.Haha, more ignorant Salty Hatred. Just because you don't understand basic high school science, doesn't make it untrue.
Also, pointing to some NFL insiders who think the Patriots deflated (and who don't believe that cold weather caused the PSI drop) proves nothing. Other than proving that those people also lack a basic understanding of science.
Until there's solid evidence that the Patriots deflated (or if there was a large PSI drop), a small PSI drop is easily explained by science because it occurs naturally.
Have we been talking about whether I think the Patriots are guilty of deflating the ball during the AFC Championship Game?
We really havent.
Why the change of subject?
This is a classic logic fail called "argument from authority".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority
Maybe you can take a Logic 101 class at your local community college, and learn why you have proven nothing by repeatedly citing some "authority" who is going on their gut feelings. While you are there, try re-taking your high school science classes, which will show you this:
http://www.headsmartlabs.com/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxsXFX3tDpg
"The study indicated that the pressure in the footballs used in the AFC Championship game could have dropped 1.95 PSI from weather and field conditions alone."
Is that not clear enough scientific evidence for you and these NFL insiders? Or I suppose their gut feelings trump scientific evidence?
Funny, because the bolded would probably describe every post you have made about Brady's non-answers over the past week or more. I agree with the post above, I can't believe this is still going.
The Salty Haters keep returning after you think they've left. Maybe the bridge that the Salty Haters live under is running out of room, so they come back to troll this thread.
Insomniac
Footballguy
It wasn't good enough for the anti-Patriots fans and media when it first came out, why would you expect it to influence them now?Um, you are talking about whether some NFL insiders/reporters think the Patriots deflated. And then you glom onto their opinions, saying that they must be correct.Haha, more ignorant Salty Hatred. Just because you don't understand basic high school science, doesn't make it untrue.
Also, pointing to some NFL insiders who think the Patriots deflated (and who don't believe that cold weather caused the PSI drop) proves nothing. Other than proving that those people also lack a basic understanding of science.
Until there's solid evidence that the Patriots deflated (or if there was a large PSI drop), a small PSI drop is easily explained by science because it occurs naturally.
Have we been talking about whether I think the Patriots are guilty of deflating the ball during the AFC Championship Game?
We really havent.
Why the change of subject?
This is a classic logic fail called "argument from authority".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority
Maybe you can take a Logic 101 class at your local community college, and learn why you have proven nothing by repeatedly citing some "authority" who is going on their gut feelings. While you are there, try re-taking your high school science classes, which will show you this:
http://www.headsmartlabs.com/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxsXFX3tDpg
"The study indicated that the pressure in the footballs used in the AFC Championship game could have dropped 1.95 PSI from weather and field conditions alone."
Is that not clear enough scientific evidence for you and these NFL insiders? Or I suppose their gut feelings trump scientific evidence?
DropKick
Footballguy
Its not about finding people to proclaim their innocence. How would anybody really know given not just the lack of facts but all the contradictory information out there? As I said before, your bias and prejudice are obvious. It's about withholding judgment until we actually have some facts to go on....
You can read all my posts on the topic and I've advocated patience. The only thing I disagreed with was your rush to judgement when a "kicking ball was introduced into the game". I questioned the bizarre nature of the allegation and the lack of a motive. A day later the story was blown to bits by the NFL employee stealing game balls. I guess my reading comprehension and intuition was right in that regard.
Your problem is you can't separate your opinion from facts. You want them to be guilty so bad you can taste it... Sorry, I feel bad for you. I'm not the one obsessed with the issue.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
How's the investigation progressing?
GreekFreak
Footballguy
Run It Up
Footballguy
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
At this point it's a joke. Either announce fines/suspensions or issue a public apology to the Patriots. I think the league is hoping they can just ignore it and people will eventually just forget. Which is probably exactly what will happen.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Personally, I thought that was tasteless of the president to joke about it in front of them like that. You can tell it didn't go over well either.
I'm not forgetting and am waiting for the apology. It's mind boggling how when the story broke it was on every news outlet and when it will be resolved with the Pats being exonerated there will be a short one line summary on the ESPN ticker for about 4 hours. I don't know what's more of a joke, the media or NFL front office?GroveDiesel said:
Ducegonads
Footballguy
Just saw the headline across the ticker and thought the same thing. The whole White House visit needs to stop anyway. Waste of everyone's time. I love it when guys don't go due to political differences.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Goodell introduced the concept of investigating possible infractions in earlier games today on an interview on CBS This Morning . . .
“What we’re trying to do is just make sure we're thorough,” Goodell said. “The most important thing here is: Was there a violation of the rules? And if so, how did that occur? We have a responsibility to the 32 teams — not just to one team, to 32 teams — and our fans, and the general public here to make sure that things were done fairly. I think it’s hard because you want to make sure you have all the information. One of the things that he would be asked to look for: Was it just one game?”
“What we’re trying to do is just make sure we're thorough,” Goodell said. “The most important thing here is: Was there a violation of the rules? And if so, how did that occur? We have a responsibility to the 32 teams — not just to one team, to 32 teams — and our fans, and the general public here to make sure that things were done fairly. I think it’s hard because you want to make sure you have all the information. One of the things that he would be asked to look for: Was it just one game?”
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Who knows where this is going, but it IMO it's 1+1=3 to cite the length of the investigation as somehow exculpatory. If anything, I'd argue it cuts the other way.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I will be interested to see how serious they take this investigation. From the looks of things pre-Colts/Pats game, the landscape seemed to show that no one really cared about how inflated the footballs were and haven't since the dawn of time. Then suddenly it became national news and the biggest story in the world for a week.
So if Wells is really going to look at this as chance to charge the Patriots with a major felony, I would want to see an investigation into all 32 teams, all the officiating crews, and a history that footballs were properly monitored for years and years of football. I doubt that that is where they are headed with this, but to out of the blue take exception to what one team did and not even look into all the other teams' inflation practices would seem like weak sauce if they were going to punish the Patriots.
I would guess 99% of coaches, players, and league administrators had no idea of the pre-game ball inspection process and what the rules were on proper inflation before all this happened. Hopefully the report will be an investigation into the league and officials as a whole in terms of pregame football handling procedures and not just a witch hunt against New England.
So if Wells is really going to look at this as chance to charge the Patriots with a major felony, I would want to see an investigation into all 32 teams, all the officiating crews, and a history that footballs were properly monitored for years and years of football. I doubt that that is where they are headed with this, but to out of the blue take exception to what one team did and not even look into all the other teams' inflation practices would seem like weak sauce if they were going to punish the Patriots.
I would guess 99% of coaches, players, and league administrators had no idea of the pre-game ball inspection process and what the rules were on proper inflation before all this happened. Hopefully the report will be an investigation into the league and officials as a whole in terms of pregame football handling procedures and not just a witch hunt against New England.
Flying Elvis
Footballguy
They will do neither, as it's already disappeared the way that both parties hoped it would.
Road Warriors
Footballguy
Who are "both parties" in this case? Assuming the league has found nothing, I know Goodell & cronies would want this to all just disappear, but I doubt the Patriots organization want it to just drift off.
I see this issue as being one similar to the Matt Walsh accusations, where they were never proven, but because the league didn't come out strongly stating there was nothing there, many of the public still believe the accusations. If the league just lets the Wells investigation end with not major announcement, the same public will continue to call back to this year as more proof of the "culture of cheating"
I would guess the Patriots want a "shout from the rooftops" apology from the league. I also would guess that will never happen, though from the firestorm this started, they probably are owed it.
Flying Elvis
Footballguy
I'd love to see Kraft push for the apology he demanded prior to the SB but don't expect it to happen. There's too much money to be made for Kraft to rock the boat that much, regardless of how much I (and probably he) believe the apology to be warranted.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I still don't see how the Patriots skate on this entirely. It will be similar to what happened this week with the Jets and tampering. I would guess that the Pats will be levied with some sort of fine just to make it look like they were not entirely in the right. I can't see the league racking up a huge bill for the investigation and the report and then have nothing to show for it as an outcome.
PatsFanCT
Footballguy
Fined for what exactly? Allegations? Good luck with that.
If the Wells investigation comes back that they did in fact deflate balls, which I highly doubt, they will be fined. But nothing is going to happen until that report comes back. And if Wells can't prove the Pats deflated balls, then they won't be fined.
It's the same old hurry up and wait mantra.
Flying Elvis
Footballguy
I think Kraft would be likely to go after the league guns blazing if they try that. My guess is we'll hear nothing about it. There will be a buried article/announcement and they'll try to avoid it becoming 'newsworthy' again at all costs.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
The NFL league operations manual calls for a $25,000 fine if footballs are found to be non-complaint with league rules (including proper inflation). Theoretically, the league could make a case that X number of balls were underinflated and fine NE X times $25,000 as a penalty. The argument would be that each team is responsible for the proper inflation of their footballs (regardless if the refs thoroughly checked and inspected them). I do not believe intent comes into play here. The bottom line would be that balls that not met league specs were used and fines could be imposed.
INTENTIONALLY deflating the balls AFTER they were inspected by the refs could be categorized as purposeful deception to gain a competitive advantage (which I don't see evidence that they can prove that). That would carry a much stiffer penalty (which I don't see happening).
I would not expect the NFL to go through months and months of this to then come out and say the Patriots were 100% innocent, and I would expect the team to receive some sort of punishment, even if it is a small one. Whether other teams get sanctioned will be interesting, and I expect other people involved (league officials and administrators) may get fined or suspended (or fired).
Put another way, if the league wanted this to go away and just say the Patriots didn't do anything, they could have done that months ago. Most of the other teams/owners/fans WANT the Patriots to fry for something, so it would not really shock me if they came up with some bogus, unsubstantiated allegations and then take action with limited "proof."
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
lift up rug, sweep under it and let rug fall
Bucky86
Footballguy
Yup. I get the sense that they possibly DID find evidence that the Pats did something inappropriate and are just going to let the excitement of the draft and next season make people forget and move on. Otherwise why not just come out and say, "Our investigation found zero evidence they intentionally deflated the balls. Although because the balls were under inflated here's a $75,000 fine. "
Bucky86
Footballguy
Don Quixote
Footballguy
babydemon90
Footballguy
"concluded it was more probable then not"? We talking 51% vs 49% probability here? 70% vs 30%?
Don Quixote
Footballguy
LOL
James Daulton
Footballguy
Read the text messages in the report between the two ballguys. Their conversation goes exactly like you'd expect.
I loved the multiple "#### Tom"s
I loved the multiple "#### Tom"s
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
