Patriots being investigated after Colts game (2 Viewers)

[Jrodicus]

I used to think that there was a pretty good chance that OJ is a murderer. However, now I realize that all the evidence against him is purely circumstantial, and none of that matters since nobody actually saw him commit the crime.

Thanks for clearing that up for me, fauthful Pats fans!

 

[Green and Gold]

OJ reference! We're like 8 posts away from comparing deflated balls to the nazis.

 

[GregR]

Since he's been brought up...I wonder what kind of odds Vegas would give on a parlay that OJ finds the killers and Don Yee fully releases his verbatim notes that change everything?

 

[JaxBill]

FYP

OJ reference! We're like 8 posts away from comparing deflated balls to Ann Frank

 

[rick6668]

I don't have a problem with the league punishing the Patriots or Tom Brady if they feel a rule was broken. I don't really have a problem with the degree of the penalty in and of itself - I'd gladly see them get hit twice as hard for that game winning interception. I get that there are people who are happy it happened to the Patriots, and also people who are legitimately demanding that rules violators be punished. I get all that.

Where I see the issue is that nobody involved in this really seems to think that the deflation is the reason for the harshness of the punishment. It's the non cooperation. otherwise, dropping the hammer with a fine that's 40x the fine listed in the books, plus suspending a player four games, plus giving the team the heaviest draft pick penalty in NFL history, makes no sense. And I guess i get that, too. The NFL has said repeatedly that you need cooperate with these investigations.

But now wells has said that Tom Brady did cooperate in the investigation, and that his only real non cooperation was his refusal to turn over his personal cell phone. And the team cooperated, and made these guys available repeatedly until finally saying enough is enough.

So now it looks like the penalty for cooperating, but not turning over your personal cell phone - regardless of the assurances given by the investigator - is a four game suspension, when the rule they're investigating doesn't carry any risk of suspension.

And the penalty for the team - when the owner and coach were reportedly never implicated in any way - is the harshest in NFL history because they eventually stopped sending their staff to meetings after a three month investigation into the psi changes of footballs on a cold wet day in January.

if that's really what the penalties are for - and the league keeps saying the problem was the non cooperation - then this is an absurd penalty that's just incredibly out of touch with reality. Because the precedent had been set, now, that any future investigation where a player refuses to hand his personal cell phone over exposes himself to a four game suspension and his team to lose a first round pick and more. That's just an insane standard. I don't expect big steel thrill to change his mind or anything, but do any of you rational people really think this is appropriate?

This is flat out not true.

Wells says he never asked for Brady's phone in any capacity but rather was fine with Yee keeping possession of the phone and only turning over "documentation" of certain correspondences and would "trust" that whatever Yee turned over would be an accurate depiction of those messages.

Brady still refused.

 

[CapnJB]

I think it's obvious at this point that Brady didn't cooperate because his phone had texts from Odin Lloyd.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

I used to think that there was a pretty good chance that OJ is a murderer. However, now I realize that all the evidence against him is purely circumstantial, and none of that matters since nobody actually saw him commit the crime.

Thanks for clearing that up for me, fauthful Pats fans!

I'm guessing the victims, Nicole and Ron, saw him do it.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

I think it's obvious at this point that Brady didn't cooperate because his phone had texts from Odin Lloyd.

I'm thinking he was sexting Adriana Lima, telling her she is hotter and younger than his kind of scary Teutonic wife. He did not want Gizwell to see that. Still, I can tell you it would have raised my esteem for the man.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Deflating football isn't that big a deal in the grand scheme of things, but if you don't draw a clear bright line, teams will keep reaching and you'll lose all control over the situation. It's exactly like Hitler invading Poland -- appeasement just doesn't work.

 

[Jercules]

Gotta love the little 'Patriots produced ... to support McNally's account', just to sow as much mistrust as possible. Unbiased my ###.

Why does that sound mistrustful? If the Pats produced him, the Pats produced him.

It's the language used. It's meant to imply they were 'produced' simply to back up McNally.

"We know you think he's lying, so here's two stooges we found that'll say the same thing".

He interview these people because they were clearly relevant persons, both with some insight into the pregame procedure. If both of them had said "no, we never see McNally alone with the balls", you can bet the language would be much different.

I think you're being irrational on this point. These were guys that the Patriots produced, not guys that the investigators scrounged around to find. That's relevant information that should rightly be stated in the report.

Fair enough.

 

[the moops]

Deflating football isn't that big a deal in the grand scheme of things, but if you don't draw a clear bright line, teams will keep reaching and you'll lose all control over the situation. It's exactly like Hitler invading Poland -- appeasement just doesn't work.

Well said

 

[Run It Up]

Was listening to the radio while at work all day.

Ted Wells went on about how the Patriots were convinced from the beginning that it was a sting. Wells claims to have investigated that concern and considered it unfounded.

I'm sure the Patriots aren't convinced and neither am I.

 

[massraider]

These WWII references are making it clear I don't know enough about that war.

 

[The General]

Was listening to the radio while at work all day.

Ted Wells went on about how the Patriots were convinced from the beginning that it was a sting. Wells claims to have investigated that concern and considered it unfounded.

I'm sure the Patriots aren't convinced and neither am I.

What's wrong with a sting?

 

[rockaction]

McCann just stated on CSN that any suit by the Patriots would have to meet an "arbitrary and capricious" standard and that most of the grievances will be filed through the league office.

Doesn't look too good for the Pats. McCann was the king of the legal bluster coming out of NE, and he just called any lawsuit or appeal "symbolic."

 

[Run It Up]

Was listening to the radio while at work all day.

Ted Wells went on about how the Patriots were convinced from the beginning that it was a sting. Wells claims to have investigated that concern and considered it unfounded.

I'm sure the Patriots aren't convinced and neither am I.

What's wrong with a sting?

What's wrong about letting the Pats play a half of a championship game without telling their organization someone under them might be breaking the rules and to make sure it didn't happen?

Then falling short pretty much every step of the way.

Really?

 

[FattyVM]

Just wondering if this has been posted yet. https://scontent-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t34.0-12/11256502_10155563833365790_509892812_n.jpg?oh=2c76dffcf97c78cef9b7f2ad7a29c27f&oe=5554E107

 

[rockaction]

Still love the likely coked-up idiots from Barstool Sports getting arrested in the offices of the NFL today.

Four of you. Nice work. Hope they're really, really drunk so that it carries them through the utter ####storm that is booking and incarceration.

 

[Smack Tripper]

Was listening to the radio while at work all day.

Ted Wells went on about how the Patriots were convinced from the beginning that it was a sting. Wells claims to have investigated that concern and considered it unfounded.

I'm sure the Patriots aren't convinced and neither am I.

What do you mean by sting?

 

[rockaction]

Harry Reid chimes in about Deflategate by talking about the Redskins?????

Holy ####. With sunglasses and all.

 

[The General]

Was listening to the radio while at work all day.

Ted Wells went on about how the Patriots were convinced from the beginning that it was a sting. Wells claims to have investigated that concern and considered it unfounded.

I'm sure the Patriots aren't convinced and neither am I.

What's wrong with a sting?

What's wrong about letting the Pats play a half of a championship game without telling their organization someone under them might be breaking the rules and to make sure it didn't happen?

Then falling short pretty much every step of the way.

Really?

Don't think it really played out the way you are saying but they have to catch the cheaters somehow.

Telling them to stop probably not going to work.

 

[GoBirds]

Was listening to the radio while at work all day.

Ted Wells went on about how the Patriots were convinced from the beginning that it was a sting. Wells claims to have investigated that concern and considered it unfounded.

I'm sure the Patriots aren't convinced and neither am I.

What's wrong with a sting?

What's wrong about letting the Pats play a half of a championship game without telling their organization someone under them might be breaking the rules and to make sure it didn't happen?

Then falling short pretty much every step of the way.

Really?

Don't think it really played out the way you are saying but they have to catch the cheaters somehow.

Telling them to stop probably not going to work.

Seriously, if you weren't cheating there wouldn't have to be a sting. If you weren't cheating and there was a sting be mad, but when you get busted you can't really complain.

 

[Run It Up]

Was listening to the radio while at work all day.

Ted Wells went on about how the Patriots were convinced from the beginning that it was a sting. Wells claims to have investigated that concern and considered it unfounded.

I'm sure the Patriots aren't convinced and neither am I.

What do you mean by sting?

2.

informal

a carefully planned operation, typically one involving deception.

 

[rick6668]

Was listening to the radio while at work all day.

Ted Wells went on about how the Patriots were convinced from the beginning that it was a sting. Wells claims to have investigated that concern and considered it unfounded.

I'm sure the Patriots aren't convinced and neither am I.

What do you mean by sting?

2.

informal

a carefully planned operation, typically one involving deception.

cheat

1.
act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Was listening to the radio while at work all day.

Ted Wells went on about how the Patriots were convinced from the beginning that it was a sting. Wells claims to have investigated that concern and considered it unfounded.

I'm sure the Patriots aren't convinced and neither am I.

What do you mean by sting?

2.

informal

a carefully planned operation, typically one involving deception.

I thought the cop was a prostitute.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

a carefully planned operation, typically one involving deception.

Think about this one for a second.

 

[BassNBrew]

I don't have a problem with the league punishing the Patriots or Tom Brady if they feel a rule was broken. I don't really have a problem with the degree of the penalty in and of itself - I'd gladly see them get hit twice as hard for that game winning interception. I get that there are people who are happy it happened to the Patriots, and also people who are legitimately demanding that rules violators be punished. I get all that.

Where I see the issue is that nobody involved in this really seems to think that the deflation is the reason for the harshness of the punishment. It's the non cooperation. otherwise, dropping the hammer with a fine that's 40x the fine listed in the books, plus suspending a player four games, plus giving the team the heaviest draft pick penalty in NFL history, makes no sense. And I guess i get that, too. The NFL has said repeatedly that you need cooperate with these investigations.

But now wells has said that Tom Brady did cooperate in the investigation, and that his only real non cooperation was his refusal to turn over his personal cell phone. And the team cooperated, and made these guys available repeatedly until finally saying enough is enough.

So now it looks like the penalty for cooperating, but not turning over your personal cell phone - regardless of the assurances given by the investigator - is a four game suspension, when the rule they're investigating doesn't carry any risk of suspension.

And the penalty for the team - when the owner and coach were reportedly never implicated in any way - is the harshest in NFL history because they eventually stopped sending their staff to meetings after a three month investigation into the psi changes of footballs on a cold wet day in January.

if that's really what the penalties are for - and the league keeps saying the problem was the non cooperation - then this is an absurd penalty that's just incredibly out of touch with reality. Because the precedent had been set, now, that any future investigation where a player refuses to hand his personal cell phone over exposes himself to a four game suspension and his team to lose a first round pick and more. That's just an insane standard. I don't expect big steel thrill to change his mind or anything, but do any of you rational people really think this is appropriate?

No.

Personally thought Brady 4 game was right on assuming it gets reduced to two. Fine for the organization for not watching things but probably not this much (may depend on what they save on Brady's salary unless that gets donated). Maybe a 4th-5th round pick, but the first was over the top.

 

[T J]

THEY DID IT. What on earth is so hard to figure out about this?

If I were on a jury, I've seen/heard enough to vote "guilty". Brady was pretty obviously lying. Kraft's bravado seemed completely disingenuous. The fact is the balls were good at game time and not at halftime. Period.

You all bringing all this science bullcrap into this remind me of OJ's attorneys when they went out of their way to confuse the jury with nonsensical arguments about DNA and it's validity and they threw off the jury from looking at the most logical outcome - that he did in fact kill his ex wife. For real. The whole gas laws, blah blah blah reminds me exactly of the strategy his attorneys used.

But like then, I suspect it will work again when the most logical answer is that they did it, just like OJ did. I certainly am not comparing this to a murder, just the strategy.

Another OJ reference dating back to January when I posted this. The part I got wrong was that they didn't get away with it like OJ did.

 

[Run It Up]

I was just restating what Ted Wells said the Patriots organization said to him.

Before the Wells investigation, there was a lot of leaked information, and a lot of that leaked information pointed to Ryan Grigson and Mike Kensil being at the front of this - the investigation, the leaking and even the sting if there was one. Both of whom have been on record for years saying they know the Pats are cheating they just can't prove it.

 

[12punch]

Could be he normally deflates them in the Official's Locker room while the refs are out on the field for pregame. But with the NFC game running late and the pregame for the Pats not going like it normally does due to the delay, he might have sought out a location where he'd be less likely to have someone walk in on him during it with the schedule in such flux.

It would certainly fit with the context the text messages provide, where Brady "said you must have a lot of stress trying to get them done". If he's doing them in the locker room with the possibility the refs might walk back in at any moment, I'd think he'd have a lot of stress over it too. Moreso than if his regular pattern was to stop off in the restroom behind a locked door.

Oh, now he's back in the locker room?

One of your salty cohorts just got through explaining that this is pretty much opposite what the wells report says.

Since you guys have this all figured out cuz it's obvious and all that could you at least get your stories straight?

 

[rockaction]

Even CSN is nuking the Patriots right now.

In prime time. It's basically television talk radio, and you're not even surviving NE.

 

[cstu]

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 4h4 hours ago

Ted Wells said he told Tom Brady that he wouldn’t even hold his phone. Would just take printouts. Brady would not provide the information

 

[T J]

Could be he normally deflates them in the Official's Locker room while the refs are out on the field for pregame. But with the NFC game running late and the pregame for the Pats not going like it normally does due to the delay, he might have sought out a location where he'd be less likely to have someone walk in on him during it with the schedule in such flux.

It would certainly fit with the context the text messages provide, where Brady "said you must have a lot of stress trying to get them done". If he's doing them in the locker room with the possibility the refs might walk back in at any moment, I'd think he'd have a lot of stress over it too. Moreso than if his regular pattern was to stop off in the restroom behind a locked door.

Oh, now he's back in the locker room?

One of your salty cohorts just got through explaining that this is pretty much opposite what the wells report says.

Since you guys have this all figured out cuz it's obvious and all that could you at least get your stories straight?

Already found guilty. No need for anyone else to do anything for you. You're trolling at this point though I expect.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I was just restating what Ted Wells said the Patriots organization said to him.

Before the Wells investigation, there was a lot of leaked information, and a lot of that leaked information pointed to Ryan Grigson and Mike Kensil being at the front of this - the investigation, the leaking and even the sting if there was one. Both of whom have been on record for years saying they know the Pats are cheating they just can't prove it.

So what? They just proved it.

 

[massraider]

I was just restating what Ted Wells said the Patriots organization said to him.

Before the Wells investigation, there was a lot of leaked information, and a lot of that leaked information pointed to Ryan Grigson and Mike Kensil being at the front of this - the investigation, the leaking and even the sting if there was one. Both of whom have been on record for years saying they know the Pats are cheating they just can't prove it.

Wells' statement today on the conference call addressed this well, I thought.

Colts alerted the NFL. NFL passed it along to....whoever they pass it along too. I'm fuzzy on the exact persons. Wells got the impression that the Colts' compliant wasn't taken too seriously.

Colts during the game complained again. Balls were checked.

 

[12punch]

Where'd the colts get the idea to complain about this?

 

[Run It Up]

I was just restating what Ted Wells said the Patriots organization said to him.

Before the Wells investigation, there was a lot of leaked information, and a lot of that leaked information pointed to Ryan Grigson and Mike Kensil being at the front of this - the investigation, the leaking and even the sting if there was one. Both of whom have been on record for years saying they know the Pats are cheating they just can't prove it.

So what? They just proved it.

You keep using that word. I don't think you know what it means.

 

[massraider]

Where'd the colts get the idea to complain about this?

I thought I read something about the Ravens.

 

[rockaction]

I was just restating what Ted Wells said the Patriots organization said to him.

Before the Wells investigation, there was a lot of leaked information, and a lot of that leaked information pointed to Ryan Grigson and Mike Kensil being at the front of this - the investigation, the leaking and even the sting if there was one. Both of whom have been on record for years saying they know the Pats are cheating they just can't prove it.

So what? They just proved it.

You keep using that word. I don't think you know what it means.

Oops. Legality getting ugly. Gonna take a miracle.

eta* I don't want to draft IK or usurp him for my cause, but I'm pretty sure he's about four times as smart as you are. I just speak from observation.

Peace.

 

[Run It Up]

In other messianic news:

Mike Loyko ‏@NEPD_Loyko
Brady has hired Jeffery Kessler according to @AdamSchefter .. he is a pain in the ###. Was the biggest hurdle in the way of NBA/NFL CBAs

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Where'd the colts get the idea to complain about this?

Jim Harbaugh read the rule book IMO.

 

[rockaction]

In other messianic news:

Mike Loyko ‏@NEPD_Loyko

Brady has hired Jeffery Kessler according to @AdamSchefter .. he is a pain in the ###. Was the biggest hurdle in the way of NBA/NFL CBAs

Yeah. Not happening.

Constant bluster from the Patriots, very little action.

 

[GregR]

So just to recap for those playing along at home...

As a group many Pats fans in here have been hyper critical that the way things went down don't allow for certainty of tampering... things like not writing down the pressures, not keeping a chain of custody after the ball certification, having two different pressure gauges in use, neither of which was laboratory certified as being perfectly calibrated, not recording the ambient temperature outside and inside at each measurement or how long the ball had been exposed to the new temperature, etc etc etc.

After many complaints the results are invalid because of the absence of these sorts of things - basic things that you might expect to be done if setting out to prove ball deflation was going on - they come to the conclusion the whole thing must have been a sting from the start.

Bravo.

 

[skinsrule05]

Don Yee's (Brady's agent) statement:

"The discipline is ridiculous and has no legitimate basis. In my opinion, this outcome was pre-determined; there was no fairness in the Wells investigation whatsoever. There is no evidence that Tom directed footballs be set at pressures below the allowable limits. In fact, the evidence shows Tom clearly emphasized that footballs be set at pressures within the rules. Tom also cooperated with the investigation and answered every question presented to him. The Wells Report presents significant evidence, however, that the NFL lacks standards or protocols with respect to its handling of footballs prior to games; this is not the fault of Tom or the Patriots.

The report also presents significant evidence the NFL participated with the Colts in some type of pre-AFC Championship Game planning regarding the footballs. This fact may raise serious questions about the integrity of the games we view on Sundays. We will appeal, and if the hearing officer is completely independent and neutral, I am very confident the Wells Report will be exposed as an incredibly frail exercise in fact-finding and logic. The NFL has a well-documented history of making poor disciplinary decisions that often are overturned when truly independent and neutral judges or arbitrators preside, and a former federal judge has found the commissioner has abused his discretion in the past, so this outcome does not surprise me. Sadly, today’s decision diminishes the NFL as it tells its fans, players and coaches that the games on the field don’t count as much as the games played on Park Avenue.”

There is no way that posting helps Toms appeal process. What an idiot.

His agent is not trying to win an appeal. He is trying to convince millions of football fans that this outcome should not be held against the legacy of Tom Brady.

That is a very good point that I didn't think about. In the grand scheme of things if he is suspended 2 or 4 games it doesn't matter. I guess it would help if it went down to zero but since he did cheat I doubt they give him nothing. The bigger impact is his legacy. So the agent is doing major damage control.

 

[G-King]

a carefully planned operation, typically one involving deception.

Think about this one for a second.

This poor Run It Up guy just keeps teeing them up.

 

[amnesiac]

So just to recap for those playing along at home...

As a group many Pats fans in here have been hyper critical that the way things went down don't allow for certainty of tampering... things like not writing down the pressures, not keeping a chain of custody after the ball certification, having two different pressure gauges in use, neither of which was laboratory certified as being perfectly calibrated, not recording the ambient temperature outside and inside at each measurement or how long the ball had been exposed to the new temperature, etc etc etc.

After many complaints the results are invalid because of the absence of these sorts of things - basic things that you might expect to be done if setting out to prove ball deflation was going on - they come to the conclusion the whole thing must have been a sting from the start.

Bravo.

it's not their fault it wasn't a good sting.

 

[ratbast]

Here is the way I look at it.....I am a Pat's fan for life, nothing will change that. I am of course, against the severity of the penalty.

Risk management should have prevented this.

Kraft needs to fix it.

The NFL itself is so full of bad drama. Goddell doesn't do well with drama.

 

[PatsWillWin]

So just to recap for those playing along at home...

As a group many Pats fans in here have been hyper critical that the way things went down don't allow for certainty of tampering... things like not writing down the pressures, not keeping a chain of custody after the ball certification, having two different pressure gauges in use, neither of which was laboratory certified as being perfectly calibrated, not recording the ambient temperature outside and inside at each measurement or how long the ball had been exposed to the new temperature, etc etc etc.

After many complaints the results are invalid because of the absence of these sorts of things - basic things that you might expect to be done if setting out to prove ball deflation was going on - they come to the conclusion the whole thing must have been a sting from the start.

Bravo.

Well it's either a really ####ty incompetent sting or a really ####ty incompetent handling of a complaint. Either way it was handled ####ty and incompetently.

 

[PatsWillWin]

The precedent was set with Favre. 0 games for withholding possible evidence.

$50k fine for not Favre not handing over his phone. $20k fine to the Chargers for not handing over the substance they may/may not have been rubbing on the balls. 1st round pick, 4 game suspension, $1M for Brady not turning over his phone.

 

[PatsWillWin]

I was just restating what Ted Wells said the Patriots organization said to him.

Before the Wells investigation, there was a lot of leaked information, and a lot of that leaked information pointed to Ryan Grigson and Mike Kensil being at the front of this - the investigation, the leaking and even the sting if there was one. Both of whom have been on record for years saying they know the Pats are cheating they just can't prove it.

Wells' statement today on the conference call addressed this well, I thought.

Colts alerted the NFL. NFL passed it along to....whoever they pass it along too. I'm fuzzy on the exact persons. Wells got the impression that the Colts' compliant wasn't taken too seriously.

Colts during the game complained again. Balls were checked.

Normally issues like this are brought up in a meeting that happens before every game between a ref and a rep from each team. This never happened with the deflation complaint. Nobody knows why. That's part of the reason the "it was a sting" narrative is out there.