Patriots being investigated after Colts game (3 Viewers)

[Run It Up]

Not a lot of money in independent studies or frivolous science projects about air pressure in footballs. Pretty confident we wont actually see another in depth study on deflategate.

 

[moleculo]

OMG....it's really back to chat room guys becoming scientists?

I think moleculo actually is.

Nah, I'm just an engineer. Loved Heat Transfer though...one of my favorite subjects in school.

 

[moleculo]

Not a lot of money in independent studies or frivolous science projects about air pressure in footballs. Pretty confident we wont actually see another in depth study on deflategate.

That's a shame. It's much more interesting than handcuffing yourselves together in the NFL lobby to protest, and a better use of money than the gofundme to help Kraft afford the $1m penalty.

Hell, I bet if I had 12 footballs, I could come up with some pretty decent data. It doesn't need to be all that in-depth.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

OMG....it's really back to chat room guys becoming scientists?

I think moleculo actually is.

he knows a helluvalot more than i do on the subject

 

[amnesiac]

OMG....it's really back to chat room guys becoming scientists?

some of us studied science in college. i for one understand some of the basic concepts.

 

[Run It Up]

Not a lot of money in independent studies or frivolous science projects about air pressure in footballs. Pretty confident we wont actually see another in depth study on deflategate.

That's a shame. It's much more interesting than handcuffing yourselves together in the NFL lobby to protest, and a better use of money than the gofundme to help Kraft afford the $1m penalty.

Hell, I bet if I had 12 footballs, I could come up with some pretty decent data. It doesn't need to be all that in-depth.

Both of those were dumb. But I love barstoolsports so I got a great laugh out of it.

OMG....it's really back to chat room guys becoming scientists?

some of us studied science in college.i for one understand some of the basic concepts.

Get out of here with your ivory tower highfalutin book learnedicity. Ain't no room for it in this witch hunt. Not one iota. Dorito dinks.

 

[GoBirds]

OMG....it's really back to chat room guys becoming scientists?

some of us studied science in college. i for one understand some of the basic concepts.

So you are going to discover something overlooked after months of investigation and millions of dollars spent on this?

Man Roger should have just called you and saved some serious $$$

 

[espnespn]

I'm not gonna dig it up, but I posted a different experiment that came to a different conclusion (basically that the range would be larger making it entirely plausible) but you found that their experiment (rolling a ball in a pan of water and letting it air dry) was not significantly different enough for you.

There were a lot of experiments done before March they all found that the psi readings that were leaked (worse than the real readings) were possible, but not many of them would hold up to scrutiny. Such as a ball submerged in 48-50 degree water very quickly dropped to the pressure levels suggested, but that is obviously not what took place.

no, I said that I think that rolling balls in pans of water was a worse simulation than spraying water and toweling them off. I think soaking wet balls would behave very differently than moist or dry balls.

Besides - the article linked was an article about an experiment...I want to see an experiment. I want to see procedure, parameters, what equipment was used, how reliable the equipment is, what kind of assumptions are involved, proper analysis of the data, all of that. Stuff that can be independently verified.

If the refs were to confirm that they inflated the Patriots balls after measuring them at halftime, before measuring the Colts balls, would that convince you that there was no tampering? This seems like the most likely scenario anyway: the report said they didn't measure all the Colts balls at halftime because they ran out of time.

"So, a scenario where the Logo Gauge was used by Walt Anderson pre-game, the Patriots halftime measurements were recorded at the beginning of halftime, and the Colts were measured at the end of halftime yields an average initial pressure of 12.56 psig for the Patriots balls and 13.01 psig for the Colts ball. Both are what Anderson measured pregame without tampering having to be invoked."

http://drewfustin.com/deflategate/

 

[moleculo]

I'm not gonna dig it up, but I posted a different experiment that came to a different conclusion (basically that the range would be larger making it entirely plausible) but you found that their experiment (rolling a ball in a pan of water and letting it air dry) was not significantly different enough for you.

There were a lot of experiments done before March they all found that the psi readings that were leaked (worse than the real readings) were possible, but not many of them would hold up to scrutiny. Such as a ball submerged in 48-50 degree water very quickly dropped to the pressure levels suggested, but that is obviously not what took place.

no, I said that I think that rolling balls in pans of water was a worse simulation than spraying water and toweling them off. I think soaking wet balls would behave very differently than moist or dry balls.Besides - the article linked was an article about an experiment...I want to see an experiment. I want to see procedure, parameters, what equipment was used, how reliable the equipment is, what kind of assumptions are involved, proper analysis of the data, all of that. Stuff that can be independently verified.

If the refs were to confirm that they inflated the Patriots balls after measuring them at halftime, before measuring the Colts balls, would that convince you that there was no tampering? This seems like the most likely scenario anyway: the report said they didn't measure all the Colts balls at halftime because they ran out of time.

"So, a scenario where the Logo Gauge was used by Walt Anderson pre-game, the Patriots halftime measurements were recorded at the beginning of halftime, and the Colts were measured at the end of halftime yields an average initial pressure of 12.56 psig for the Patriots balls and 13.01 psig for the Colts ball. Both are what Anderson measured pregame without tampering having to be invoked."

http://drewfustin.com/deflategate/

That's fustins conclusion. I'm still not really sure how he got that. Hopefully I can dig into his article in more depth tomorrow.

 

[amnesiac]

OMG....it's really back to chat room guys becoming scientists?

some of us studied science in college. i for one understand some of the basic concepts.

So you are going to discover something overlooked after months of investigation and millions of dollars spent on this?Man Roger should have just called you and saved some serious $$$

maybe. i feel like there are some fundamental problems with the investigation.

it's entirely possible the Pats are cheating bastards. i just have a problem with the NFL using crap science to prove it.

 

[12punch]

OMG....it's really back to chat room guys becoming scientists?

some of us studied science in college. i for one understand some of the basic concepts.

So you are going to discover something overlooked after months of investigation and millions of dollars spent on this?Man Roger should have just called you and saved some serious $$$

maybe. i feel like there are some fundamental problems with the investigation.

it's entirely possible the Pats are cheating bastards. i just have a problem with the NFL using crap science to prove it.

Plz don't call that crap science --- that'd still be associating it with science.

The only people who think this is science are people who think finding bigfoot is a documentary and astrology is legit

 

[Flying Elvis]

New information - emails from the Pats to Wells showing they agreed to one round of interviews at the outset. If anything, these emails show Wells and not the Patriots as looking uncooperative by not disclosing why they needed to interview McNally again. The more I read about this the more it looks like a total sham.

https://wellsreportcontext.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/nep_psi_excerpts-from-emails-5_15_15.pdf

I just read this and found the true BIG HOT TAKE.

Pats lawyers state in this email that "there is no one who has ever so much as seen" mcnally put a needle pump or guage on a football. Didn't the wellscontext rebuttal say mcnally deflates all balls twice - once out of the box and once prior to presenting brady with footballs?

Oops.

 

[12punch]

New information - emails from the Pats to Wells showing they agreed to one round of interviews at the outset. If anything, these emails show Wells and not the Patriots as looking uncooperative by not disclosing why they needed to interview McNally again. The more I read about this the more it looks like a total sham.

https://wellsreportcontext.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/nep_psi_excerpts-from-emails-5_15_15.pdf

I just read this and found the true BIG HOT TAKE.Pats lawyers state in this email that "there is no one who has ever so much as seen" mcnally put a needle pump or guage on a football. Didn't the wellscontext rebuttal say mcnally deflates all balls twice - once out of the box and once prior to presenting brady with footballs?

Oops.

Well, that would be pretty odd if that was the case.

I'd imagine that would be more like dorito dink's job, but I would have to look that up

 

[12punch]

You mean this?

Mr. Jastremskis duties in football preparation in fact routinely involve deflating every football at least twice.

Oops

Looooool

That was tough to figure out --- and I'm on my phone.

Shark pool be sharkin'

 

[12punch]

If this is the shark pool I'd really hate to see what the ####### guppy pool looks like

 

[Run It Up]

You mean this?

Mr. Jastremskis duties in football preparation in fact routinely involve deflating every football at least twice.

Oops

Looooool

That was tough to figure out --- and I'm on my phone.

Shark pool be sharkin'

I am actually surprised how often Jastremski and Mcnally get mixed up by people. There are seemingly only three pieces in play, yet people can't remember.

 

[Flying Elvis]

Lol. Yes, I keep getting them mixed up because it's all so ####### stupid.

 

[Old Smiley]

Lol. Yes, I keep getting them mixed up because it's all so ####### stupid.

Speaking of that...

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 3h3 hours ago

Jack Del Rio uses the word "overreaction" in regards to #DeflateGate punishments http://wp.me/p14QSB-9M3U

“I think there are some similarities in terms of an overreaction, from my standpoint,” Del Rio said, via the Associated Press. “I think it was a little bit overdone, but that’s somebody else’s problem right now.”

“Everybody understands that quarterbacks all want to get the balls how they like them, and why not?” he said. “They throw these balls around, and one of the reasons the sport is so popular is the ability of guys like Peyton [Manning] and [Tom] Brady to throw the ball the way they do.”

Good for him.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Lol. Yes, I keep getting them mixed up because it's all so ####### stupid.

Speaking of that...

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 3h3 hours ago

Jack Del Rio uses the word "overreaction" in regards to #DeflateGate punishments http://wp.me/p14QSB-9M3U

“I think there are some similarities in terms of an overreaction, from my standpoint,” Del Rio said, via the Associated Press. “I think it was a little bit overdone, but that’s somebody else’s problem right now.”

“Everybody understands that quarterbacks all want to get the balls how they like them, and why not?” he said. “They throw these balls around, and one of the reasons the sport is so popular is the ability of guys like Peyton [Manning] and [Tom] Brady to throw the ball the way they do.”

Good for him.

how about looking at TB and saying he cheated and instead say ''he`s a pioneer '' and send that dumb PSI rule back to the 1940`s where it belongs...the game has evolved so should the rules

 

[12punch]

In this case, frankly, Wells failed to make a sufficiently compelling case in those 243 pages that the Patriots tampered with footballs on January 18, 2015 and that Tom Brady was at least generally aware (whatever that means) of the effort to do so. Most significantly, common sense suggests that the PSI readings generated by footballs that were hastily deflated on the floor of a bathroom in the bowels of Gillette Stadium would be much lower than the numbers predicted by the Ideal Gas Law. They weren’t.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/17/nfl-should-improve-its-in-house-system-of-justic/#comment-4259099

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Lol. Yes, I keep getting them mixed up because it's all so ####### stupid.

Speaking of that...

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 3h3 hours ago

Jack Del Rio uses the word "overreaction" in regards to #DeflateGate punishments http://wp.me/p14QSB-9M3U

“I think there are some similarities in terms of an overreaction, from my standpoint,” Del Rio said, via the Associated Press. “I think it was a little bit overdone, but that’s somebody else’s problem right now.”

“Everybody understands that quarterbacks all want to get the balls how they like them, and why not?” he said. “They throw these balls around, and one of the reasons the sport is so popular is the ability of guys like Peyton [Manning] and [Tom] Brady to throw the ball the way they do.”

Good for him.

how about looking at TB and saying he cheated and instead say ''he`s a pioneer '' and send that dumb PSI rule back to the 1940`s where it belongs...the game has evolved so should the rules

I agree. The last time the rules about balls evolved was less than a decade ago when Brady and Manning asked the league to change it. As it turned out the League accommodated that change right away. Given that experience one might have thought that were there further need in that regard the League might have been responsive. When prima donna Q.B.'s ask they receive. Instead, Brady, who had experience with a responsive and accommodating League, decided not to ask for the change for the good of the game, but he took it upon himself to surreptitiously seek the advantage for himself alone, against the rules which he had previously closely examined in relation to the last change.

The game should evolve, openly and evenly, for the good of all. It should not evolve by cheaters being appeased.

 

[Run It Up]

Ball preparation was all that the rule change that the ENTIRE LEAGUE was about.

The rule about PSI ranges was a recommendation by Wilson, the football manufacturer - like half a century ago.

Even the Wells report outlines that Brady didn't even know there was a range until some point this season.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

In this case, frankly, Wells failed to make a sufficiently compelling case in those 243 pages that the Patriots tampered with footballs on January 18, 2015 and that Tom Brady was at least generally aware (whatever that means) of the effort to do so. Most significantly, common sense suggests that the PSI readings generated by footballs that were hastily deflated on the floor of a bathroom in the bowels of Gillette Stadium would be much lower than the numbers predicted by the Ideal Gas Law. They weren’t.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/17/nfl-should-improve-its-in-house-system-of-justic/#comment-4259099

That's one theory. A theory generated, as you have previously objected to, to fit a conclusion. Another theory would be that an experienced Deflator would have a pretty precise rhythm down for how long to have the needle in each ball to keep them pretty consistent (consistency being important to Q.B.'s) and to get them just right. Practice would make this a quick process. The 100 seconds may actually not have been hasty at all for an experienced Deflator. That might even have been a subpar time for him. As for the amount of deflation, Brady may only have desired just that little bit more to be exactly were he liked them. Common sense does not demand in any way that the amount be large. Now it may have been nice if the amount was large, if that were Brady's preference, as a large amount would have clarified the situation more, but common sense certainly does not demand that. Your author makes an unspoken assumption.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Ball preparation was all that the rule change that the ENTIRE LEAGUE was about.

The rule about PSI ranges was a recommendation by Wilson, the football manufacturer - like half a century ago.

Even the Wells report outlines that Brady didn't even know there was a range until some point this season.

Come on, you can say it, it was a recommendation which was important enough to be codified in the rules. It was a rule. It was a rule which was important enough to even have a built in mandatory minimum penalty for violation thereof. That makes it an important rule since not all of the rules even bother to have a penalty specification.

Step on up. Admit the undisputed facts. Doing so might lend credibility to your other arguments. We all recognize you want to trivialize the matter at every turn since even you know in your heart the culpability here and want the matter trivialized when culpability moves beyond dispute and appeal, but denial of the evident is not helping your cause.

 

[The General]

Jastremski: Talked to him last night. He actually brought you up and said you must have a lot of stress trying to get them done...

How stressful is it to get a ball ready in a week?

 

[The General]

Ball preparation was all that the rule change that the ENTIRE LEAGUE was about.

The rule about PSI ranges was a recommendation by Wilson, the football manufacturer - like half a century ago.

Even the Wells report outlines that Brady didn't even know there was a range until some point this season.

It says that?

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Jastremski: Talked to him last night. He actually brought you up and said you must have a lot of stress trying to get them done...

How stressful is it to get a ball ready in a week?

Seriously.

 

[Run It Up]

In this case, frankly, Wells failed to make a sufficiently compelling case in those 243 pages that the Patriots tampered with footballs on January 18, 2015 and that Tom Brady was at least generally aware (whatever that means) of the effort to do so. Most significantly, common sense suggests that the PSI readings generated by footballs that were hastily deflated on the floor of a bathroom in the bowels of Gillette Stadium would be much lower than the numbers predicted by the Ideal Gas Law. They weren’t.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/17/nfl-should-improve-its-in-house-system-of-justic/#comment-4259099

That's one theory. A theory generated, as you have previously objected to, to fit a conclusion. Another theory would be that an experienced Deflator would have a pretty precise rhythm down for how long to have the needle in each ball to keep them pretty consistent (consistency being important to Q.B.'s) and to get them just right. Practice would make this a quick process. The 100 seconds may actually not have been hasty at all for an experienced Deflator. That might even have been a subpar time for him. As for the amount of deflation, Brady may only have desired just that little bit more to be exactly were he liked them. Common sense does not demand in any way that the amount be large. Now it may have been nice if the amount was large, if that were Brady's preference, as a large amount would have clarified the situation more, but common sense certainly does not demand that. Your author makes an unspoken assumption.

You would think that such an experienced deflator would have been caught on camera since hes been doing it for so long.

I mean, it took the Patriots a day to find the video of Mcnally walking into the bathroom. You'd think given a hundred days Ted Wells would have some video evidence Mcnally has ever done what hes been accused of.

How stressful is it to get a ball ready in a week?

Seriously.

I imagine its a lot more stressful when the refs overinflate a ball you prepared and get yelled at by Brady for something you didn't do, and then later Jastremski.

 

[12punch]

Lol. Yes, I keep getting them mixed up because it's all so ####### stupid.

Speaking of that...

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 3h3 hours ago

Jack Del Rio uses the word "overreaction" in regards to #DeflateGate punishments http://wp.me/p14QSB-9M3U

“I think there are some similarities in terms of an overreaction, from my standpoint,” Del Rio said, via the Associated Press. “I think it was a little bit overdone, but that’s somebody else’s problem right now.”

“Everybody understands that quarterbacks all want to get the balls how they like them, and why not?” he said. “They throw these balls around, and one of the reasons the sport is so popular is the ability of guys like Peyton [Manning] and [Tom] Brady to throw the ball the way they do.”

Good for him.

how about looking at TB and saying he cheated and instead say ''he`s a pioneer '' and send that dumb PSI rule back to the 1940`s where it belongs...the game has evolved so should the rules

I agree. The last time the rules about balls evolved was less than a decade ago when Brady and Manning asked the league to change it. As it turned out the League accommodated that change right away. Given that experience one might have thought that were there further need in that regard the League might have been responsive. When prima donna Q.B.'s ask they receive. Instead, Brady, who had experience with a responsive and accommodating League, decided not to ask for the change for the good of the game, but he took it upon himself to surreptitiously seek the advantage for himself alone, against the rules which he had previously closely examined in relation to the last change.

The game should evolve, openly and evenly, for the good of all. It should not evolve by cheaters being appeased.

stop trying to sow doubt with your false arguments

 

[12punch]

Jastremski: Talked to him last night. He actually brought you up and said you must have a lot of stress trying to get them done...

How stressful is it to get a ball ready in a week?

wat

 

[The General]

Jastremski: Talked to him last night. He actually brought you up and said you must have a lot of stress trying to get them done...

How stressful is it to get a ball ready in a week?

wat

Getting a ball pumped up to 12.5 psi in a week seems pretty easy. What is so stressful about that?

 

[12punch]

Jastremski: Talked to him last night. He actually brought you up and said you must have a lot of stress trying to get them done...

How stressful is it to get a ball ready in a week?

wat

Getting a ball pumped up to 12.5 psi in a week seems pretty easy. What is so stressful about that?

is that what mcnally does?

 

[Old Smiley]

Jastremski: Talked to him last night. He actually brought you up and said you must have a lot of stress trying to get them done...

How stressful is it to get a ball ready in a week?

wat

Getting a ball pumped up to 12.5 psi in a week seems pretty easy. What is so stressful about that?

Now, you know Pats have a weeks long method of ball prep that continues almost until they're presented to the ref.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

In this case, frankly, Wells failed to make a sufficiently compelling case in those 243 pages that the Patriots tampered with footballs on January 18, 2015 and that Tom Brady was at least generally aware (whatever that means) of the effort to do so. Most significantly, common sense suggests that the PSI readings generated by footballs that were hastily deflated on the floor of a bathroom in the bowels of Gillette Stadium would be much lower than the numbers predicted by the Ideal Gas Law. They weren’t.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/17/nfl-should-improve-its-in-house-system-of-justic/#comment-4259099

That's one theory. A theory generated, as you have previously objected to, to fit a conclusion. Another theory would be that an experienced Deflator would have a pretty precise rhythm down for how long to have the needle in each ball to keep them pretty consistent (consistency being important to Q.B.'s) and to get them just right. Practice would make this a quick process. The 100 seconds may actually not have been hasty at all for an experienced Deflator. That might even have been a subpar time for him. As for the amount of deflation, Brady may only have desired just that little bit more to be exactly were he liked them. Common sense does not demand in any way that the amount be large. Now it may have been nice if the amount was large, if that were Brady's preference, as a large amount would have clarified the situation more, but common sense certainly does not demand that. Your author makes an unspoken assumption.

You would think that such an experienced deflator would have been caught on camera since hes been doing it for so long.

I mean, it took the Patriots a day to find the video of Mcnally walking into the bathroom. You'd think given a hundred days Ted Wells would have some video evidence Mcnally has ever done what hes been accused of.

How stressful is it to get a ball ready in a week?

Seriously.

I imagine its a lot more stressful when the refs overinflate a ball you prepared and get yelled at by Brady for something you didn't do, and then later Jastremski.

Why would I think that someone would do a prohibited, underhanded thing in front of video. He works in that stadium. He is likely familiar with what rooms and facilities are video monitored and which are not. Also, if I remember correctly, video at the stadium is held 10 days and then overwritten unless it is directed to be held. Finally the facility was not searched under a warrant, nor did Wells even have subpoena power, so even if the stuff did exist, I would not necessarily expect it to be uncovered, no matter the time frame. Another straw grasped at, but missed.

 

[The General]

Jastremski: Talked to him last night. He actually brought you up and said you must have a lot of stress trying to get them done...

How stressful is it to get a ball ready in a week?

wat

Getting a ball pumped up to 12.5 psi in a week seems pretty easy. What is so stressful about that?

Now, you know Pats have a weeks long method of ball prep that continues almost until they're presented to the ref.

And after.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Lol. Yes, I keep getting them mixed up because it's all so ####### stupid.

Speaking of that...

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 3h3 hours ago

Jack Del Rio uses the word "overreaction" in regards to #DeflateGate punishments http://wp.me/p14QSB-9M3U

“I think there are some similarities in terms of an overreaction, from my standpoint,” Del Rio said, via the Associated Press. “I think it was a little bit overdone, but that’s somebody else’s problem right now.”

“Everybody understands that quarterbacks all want to get the balls how they like them, and why not?” he said. “They throw these balls around, and one of the reasons the sport is so popular is the ability of guys like Peyton [Manning] and [Tom] Brady to throw the ball the way they do.”

Good for him.

how about looking at TB and saying he cheated and instead say ''he`s a pioneer '' and send that dumb PSI rule back to the 1940`s where it belongs...the game has evolved so should the rules

I agree. The last time the rules about balls evolved was less than a decade ago when Brady and Manning asked the league to change it. As it turned out the League accommodated that change right away. Given that experience one might have thought that were there further need in that regard the League might have been responsive. When prima donna Q.B.'s ask they receive. Instead, Brady, who had experience with a responsive and accommodating League, decided not to ask for the change for the good of the game, but he took it upon himself to surreptitiously seek the advantage for himself alone, against the rules which he had previously closely examined in relation to the last change.

The game should evolve, openly and evenly, for the good of all. It should not evolve by cheaters being appeased.

stop trying to sow doubt with your false arguments

I see it does not take much to set up camp in your head.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

I am not looking forward to the next CBA. This matter, and the disciplines of the last year or so are going to have sown so much distrust and discord that I expect a strike is now more probable than not, and that Goodell is likely aware of that fact.

 

[davearm]

Jastremski: Talked to him last night. He actually brought you up and said you must have a lot of stress trying to get them done...

How stressful is it to get a ball ready in a week?

Is it really so difficult to keep these two folks straight?

Jastremski is the sender of the above text. Jastremski has all week to get balls into shape, before handing them off to the refs for inspection.

McNally is the recipient of the above text. McNally has between 100 seconds (if it's in a bathroom) and 15 minutes (if it's in the Officials' Locker Room while the officials are on the field for their pregame) to tamper with the balls after the refs have completed their inspection.

 

[Old Smiley]

I am not looking forward to the next CBA. This matter, and the disciplines of the last year or so are going to have sown so much distrust and discord that I expect a strike is now more probable than not, and that Goodell is likely aware of that fact.

Assuming Union officials are not all just lobbying for spots with the league.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

The schadenfreude on this is so delicious that the only thing for a right-minded person to do is hope the appeals process isn't resolved until Week 14.

Nonetheless, here is some good, free advice for the Patriots: Stop letting egos, lawyers and agents drive your response. Turn it over to your PR team ASAP.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Kraft and Brady are going to play the NFL does not have enough evidence angle.

This smells of a tandem that are guilty but will go with there is not nearly enough evidence for the punishment that got laid out garbage and we are going to stick it to the NFL (be careful what you wish for Brady).

So many guilty people build cases of defense in their head and eventually you start believing that you are innocent or at least mostly innocent. You want to feel vindicated that even if you did this that the punishment does not fit the crime which helps you believe you are again not at fault. I think that is what is happening here with Brady and company. They know they have done something wrong as Kraft had originally even said we are willing to accept any punishment the NFL gives us. That tune quickly changed after hearing what the punishment actually was.

 

[12punch]

Jastremski: Talked to him last night. He actually brought you up and said you must have a lot of stress trying to get them done...

How stressful is it to get a ball ready in a week?

Is it really so difficult to keep these two folks straight?

don't set the bar too high for these guys

 

[General Tso]

New article from Florio in which he slams Wells as incompetent - even uses the term "malpractice". There is definitely a trend in the media and with those who have actually read the reports that this investigation and the conclusions drawn were heavily biased and flawed. Based on what Kraft told Peter King this morning, I'm pretty confident this will eventually wind up in a court of law, where I think the smart money will be on the Pats. Here's the Florio article:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/18/nfl-leaks-disagreement-with-patriots-on-circumstances-for-re-interviewing-witnesses/

Last weeks stunning events in #DeflateGate, with an Angry Ted Wells conference call followed by a Ted Kaczynski-style manifesto from the Patriots, ultimately may be a pair of sparklers in comparison to the fireworks that will fly this week, as a quarterly ownership meeting looms.

From the teams perspective, owner Robert Kraft has gone on the record with Peter King of TheMMQB.com, saying plenty and not saying plenty more. From the leagues perspective, the week has commenced with a leak to Ben Volin of the Boston Globe in response to the teams position that the failure to produce Jim McNally for another interview did not amount to failure to cooperate.

The Patriots contend that they made McNally available multiple times to the NFL, and that before his lengthy interview as part of the independent investigation/special prosecution Ted Wells and company had access to all of the text messages about which they wanted to question McNally in a second interview. The Patriots believe Wells agreed that witnesses wouldnt be made available for a second interview absent unanticipated circumstances, such as the discovery of new evidence.

Heres what the NFL leaked to Volin on Sunday night: The investigators did not agree with [Dan Goldbergs] characterizations in his e-mails and made clear after hearing out all of Dans arguments that they considered the Patriots in violation of the duty to cooperate. This is not like a normal piece of litigation, and if an investigator misses a piece of evidence he has an absolute obligation to follow up on the evidence. The subject of the investigation cannot hide behind technical procedural arguments, especially when the investigators disagree that there ever was an agreement.

If thats the case, and as Volin notes, Ted Wells needs to say so publicly. He already had a chance to do that last Thursday night in comments to Bart Hubbuch of the New York Post, but Wells didnt. Instead, Wells contradicted his own report and said nothing about the absence of an agreement that witnesses wouldnt be questioned a second time based on evidence that Wells had in his files before the first investigation.

Apart from whether Wells agreed to have only one bite out of each apple (which is an extremely common reality in all forms of litigation), the fact that Wells and company flat-out missed two key text messages in which McNally uses the term deflator and deflate speaks to a lack of competence that the NFL should regard as troubling. Any first-year practicing lawyer knows that, before conducting a major interview in any case, its critical to know everything about the person being interviewed.

When documents are available to be reviewed before the interview, the task is simple: Review every single one of them. Twice. When a lawyer is being paid by the hour, theres no incentive to skip steps and theres no incentive to rush through the process of putting eyes on each word appearing on every sheet of paper.

Even if Wells and company somehow missed the documents (which is embarrassing in and of itself), they easily could have done a text search for any words or partial words of interest (like deflat-) to pull up any overlooked documents. Regardless, the failure to spot those critical text messages before the first official interview with McNally would be regarded by many lawyers as malpractice.

So heres the bigger question the NFL surely wont be asking itself as it processes the failure of Ted Wells and his team to find two of the most critical text messages before their first interview of the most critical witness in the case: If Wells missed seeing such obvious and important documents, what else has he missed?

 

[Road Warriors]

New information - emails from the Pats to Wells showing they agreed to one round of interviews at the outset. If anything, these emails show Wells and not the Patriots as looking uncooperative by not disclosing why they needed to interview McNally again. The more I read about this the more it looks like a total sham.

https://wellsreportcontext.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/nep_psi_excerpts-from-emails-5_15_15.pdf

I just read this and found the true BIG HOT TAKE.

Pats lawyers state in this email that "there is no one who has ever so much as seen" mcnally put a needle pump or guage on a football. Didn't the wellscontext rebuttal say mcnally deflates all balls twice - once out of the box and once prior to presenting brady with footballs?

Oops.

I think that's Jestremski who does that ( IIRC )

 

[Old Smiley]

Kraft and Brady are going to play the NFL does not have enough evidence angle.

This smells of a tandem that are guilty

...

Do you smell burnt toast, too? Cause that could be a tumor.

 

[JIslander]

New article from Florio in which he slams Wells as incompetent - even uses the term "malpractice". There is definitely a trend in the media and with those who have actually read the reports that this investigation and the conclusions drawn were heavily biased and flawed. Based on what Kraft told Peter King this morning, I'm pretty confident this will eventually wind up in a court of law, where I think the smart money will be on the Pats. Here's the Florio article:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/18/nfl-leaks-disagreement-with-patriots-on-circumstances-for-re-interviewing-witnesses/

Last weeks stunning events in #DeflateGate, with an Angry Ted Wells conference call followed by a Ted Kaczynski-style manifesto from the Patriots, ultimately may be a pair of sparklers in comparison to the fireworks that will fly this week, as a quarterly ownership meeting looms.

From the teams perspective, owner Robert Kraft has gone on the record with Peter King of TheMMQB.com, saying plenty and not saying plenty more. From the leagues perspective, the week has commenced with a leak to Ben Volin of the Boston Globe in response to the teams position that the failure to produce Jim McNally for another interview did not amount to failure to cooperate.

The Patriots contend that they made McNally available multiple times to the NFL, and that before his lengthy interview as part of the independent investigation/special prosecution Ted Wells and company had access to all of the text messages about which they wanted to question McNally in a second interview. The Patriots believe Wells agreed that witnesses wouldnt be made available for a second interview absent unanticipated circumstances, such as the discovery of new evidence.

Heres what the NFL leaked to Volin on Sunday night: The investigators did not agree with [Dan Goldbergs] characterizations in his e-mails and made clear after hearing out all of Dans arguments that they considered the Patriots in violation of the duty to cooperate. This is not like a normal piece of litigation, and if an investigator misses a piece of evidence he has an absolute obligation to follow up on the evidence. The subject of the investigation cannot hide behind technical procedural arguments, especially when the investigators disagree that there ever was an agreement.

If thats the case, and as Volin notes, Ted Wells needs to say so publicly. He already had a chance to do that last Thursday night in comments to Bart Hubbuch of the New York Post, but Wells didnt. Instead, Wells contradicted his own report and said nothing about the absence of an agreement that witnesses wouldnt be questioned a second time based on evidence that Wells had in his files before the first investigation.

Apart from whether Wells agreed to have only one bite out of each apple (which is an extremely common reality in all forms of litigation), the fact that Wells and company flat-out missed two key text messages in which McNally uses the term deflator and deflate speaks to a lack of competence that the NFL should regard as troubling. Any first-year practicing lawyer knows that, before conducting a major interview in any case, its critical to know everything about the person being interviewed.

When documents are available to be reviewed before the interview, the task is simple: Review every single one of them. Twice. When a lawyer is being paid by the hour, theres no incentive to skip steps and theres no incentive to rush through the process of putting eyes on each word appearing on every sheet of paper.

Even if Wells and company somehow missed the documents (which is embarrassing in and of itself), they easily could have done a text search for any words or partial words of interest (like deflat-) to pull up any overlooked documents. Regardless, the failure to spot those critical text messages before the first official interview with McNally would be regarded by many lawyers as malpractice.

So heres the bigger question the NFL surely wont be asking itself as it processes the failure of Ted Wells and his team to find two of the most critical text messages before their first interview of the most critical witness in the case: If Wells missed seeing such obvious and important documents, what else has he missed?

Has anyone from the Pats organization actually come out and made a statement ala "We absolutely did not let air out of the footballs after inspection"? Other than Brady back in Jan.

 

[Run It Up]

New article from Florio in which he slams Wells as incompetent - even uses the term "malpractice". There is definitely a trend in the media and with those who have actually read the reports that this investigation and the conclusions drawn were heavily biased and flawed. Based on what Kraft told Peter King this morning, I'm pretty confident this will eventually wind up in a court of law, where I think the smart money will be on the Pats. Here's the Florio article:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/18/nfl-leaks-disagreement-with-patriots-on-circumstances-for-re-interviewing-witnesses/

Last weeks stunning events in #DeflateGate, with an Angry Ted Wells conference call followed by a Ted Kaczynski-style manifesto from the Patriots, ultimately may be a pair of sparklers in comparison to the fireworks that will fly this week, as a quarterly ownership meeting looms.

From the teams perspective, owner Robert Kraft has gone on the record with Peter King of TheMMQB.com, saying plenty and not saying plenty more. From the leagues perspective, the week has commenced with a leak to Ben Volin of the Boston Globe in response to the teams position that the failure to produce Jim McNally for another interview did not amount to failure to cooperate.

The Patriots contend that they made McNally available multiple times to the NFL, and that before his lengthy interview as part of the independent investigation/special prosecution Ted Wells and company had access to all of the text messages about which they wanted to question McNally in a second interview. The Patriots believe Wells agreed that witnesses wouldnt be made available for a second interview absent unanticipated circumstances, such as the discovery of new evidence.

Heres what the NFL leaked to Volin on Sunday night: The investigators did not agree with [Dan Goldbergs] characterizations in his e-mails and made clear after hearing out all of Dans arguments that they considered the Patriots in violation of the duty to cooperate. This is not like a normal piece of litigation, and if an investigator misses a piece of evidence he has an absolute obligation to follow up on the evidence. The subject of the investigation cannot hide behind technical procedural arguments, especially when the investigators disagree that there ever was an agreement.

If thats the case, and as Volin notes, Ted Wells needs to say so publicly. He already had a chance to do that last Thursday night in comments to Bart Hubbuch of the New York Post, but Wells didnt. Instead, Wells contradicted his own report and said nothing about the absence of an agreement that witnesses wouldnt be questioned a second time based on evidence that Wells had in his files before the first investigation.

Apart from whether Wells agreed to have only one bite out of each apple (which is an extremely common reality in all forms of litigation), the fact that Wells and company flat-out missed two key text messages in which McNally uses the term deflator and deflate speaks to a lack of competence that the NFL should regard as troubling. Any first-year practicing lawyer knows that, before conducting a major interview in any case, its critical to know everything about the person being interviewed.

When documents are available to be reviewed before the interview, the task is simple: Review every single one of them. Twice. When a lawyer is being paid by the hour, theres no incentive to skip steps and theres no incentive to rush through the process of putting eyes on each word appearing on every sheet of paper.

Even if Wells and company somehow missed the documents (which is embarrassing in and of itself), they easily could have done a text search for any words or partial words of interest (like deflat-) to pull up any overlooked documents. Regardless, the failure to spot those critical text messages before the first official interview with McNally would be regarded by many lawyers as malpractice.

So heres the bigger question the NFL surely wont be asking itself as it processes the failure of Ted Wells and his team to find two of the most critical text messages before their first interview of the most critical witness in the case: If Wells missed seeing such obvious and important documents, what else has he missed?

Has anyone from the Pats organization actually come out and made a statement ala "We absolutely did not let air out of the footballs after inspection"? Other than Brady back in Jan.

Kraft multiple times has said they have done nothing wrong and are guilty of nothing.

 

[12punch]

Kraft and Brady are going to play the NFL does not have enough evidence angle.

This smells of a tandem that are guilty

...

Do you smell burnt toast, too? Cause that could be a tumor.

the nfl had their chance to take shots uncontested when they controlled all the info, but the legit stuff is coming out now and you can see the momentum shifting towards the patriots.

there are no longer any rational people with any kind of common sense buying into this wells report nonsense.

as we know, salty trolls are herd animals by nature, and as they slowly sense the pack moving in a different direction I imagine we'll be seeing less and less of them.

at some point, and this is pretty inevitable, there will be some piece of info released for them to seize on and change their story to how they aren't being fooled by any of this, and then, like the murderer who becomes born again, they'll set out to explain everything to the world, only this time from the other side.

if confronted by their past nonsense they'll simply use that old classic bit, 'everybody was fooled, nobody could have seen this without this trivial new revelation' --- hoping to take refuge in the pack.

also possible would be the handy it-was-all-a-troll defense.

this is all simply a matter of time.

 

[JIslander]

New article from Florio in which he slams Wells as incompetent - even uses the term "malpractice". There is definitely a trend in the media and with those who have actually read the reports that this investigation and the conclusions drawn were heavily biased and flawed. Based on what Kraft told Peter King this morning, I'm pretty confident this will eventually wind up in a court of law, where I think the smart money will be on the Pats. Here's the Florio article:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/18/nfl-leaks-disagreement-with-patriots-on-circumstances-for-re-interviewing-witnesses/

Last weeks stunning events in #DeflateGate, with an Angry Ted Wells conference call followed by a Ted Kaczynski-style manifesto from the Patriots, ultimately may be a pair of sparklers in comparison to the fireworks that will fly this week, as a quarterly ownership meeting looms.

From the teams perspective, owner Robert Kraft has gone on the record with Peter King of TheMMQB.com, saying plenty and not saying plenty more. From the leagues perspective, the week has commenced with a leak to Ben Volin of the Boston Globe in response to the teams position that the failure to produce Jim McNally for another interview did not amount to failure to cooperate.

The Patriots contend that they made McNally available multiple times to the NFL, and that before his lengthy interview as part of the independent investigation/special prosecution Ted Wells and company had access to all of the text messages about which they wanted to question McNally in a second interview. The Patriots believe Wells agreed that witnesses wouldnt be made available for a second interview absent unanticipated circumstances, such as the discovery of new evidence.

Heres what the NFL leaked to Volin on Sunday night: The investigators did not agree with [Dan Goldbergs] characterizations in his e-mails and made clear after hearing out all of Dans arguments that they considered the Patriots in violation of the duty to cooperate. This is not like a normal piece of litigation, and if an investigator misses a piece of evidence he has an absolute obligation to follow up on the evidence. The subject of the investigation cannot hide behind technical procedural arguments, especially when the investigators disagree that there ever was an agreement.

If thats the case, and as Volin notes, Ted Wells needs to say so publicly. He already had a chance to do that last Thursday night in comments to Bart Hubbuch of the New York Post, but Wells didnt. Instead, Wells contradicted his own report and said nothing about the absence of an agreement that witnesses wouldnt be questioned a second time based on evidence that Wells had in his files before the first investigation.

Apart from whether Wells agreed to have only one bite out of each apple (which is an extremely common reality in all forms of litigation), the fact that Wells and company flat-out missed two key text messages in which McNally uses the term deflator and deflate speaks to a lack of competence that the NFL should regard as troubling. Any first-year practicing lawyer knows that, before conducting a major interview in any case, its critical to know everything about the person being interviewed.

When documents are available to be reviewed before the interview, the task is simple: Review every single one of them. Twice. When a lawyer is being paid by the hour, theres no incentive to skip steps and theres no incentive to rush through the process of putting eyes on each word appearing on every sheet of paper.

Even if Wells and company somehow missed the documents (which is embarrassing in and of itself), they easily could have done a text search for any words or partial words of interest (like deflat-) to pull up any overlooked documents. Regardless, the failure to spot those critical text messages before the first official interview with McNally would be regarded by many lawyers as malpractice.

So heres the bigger question the NFL surely wont be asking itself as it processes the failure of Ted Wells and his team to find two of the most critical text messages before their first interview of the most critical witness in the case: If Wells missed seeing such obvious and important documents, what else has he missed?

Has anyone from the Pats organization actually come out and made a statement ala "We absolutely did not let air out of the footballs after inspection"? Other than Brady back in Jan.

Kraft multiple times has said they have done nothing wrong and are guilty of nothing.

We don't know his definition of "nothing". Guilty.

 

[12punch]

New article from Florio in which he slams Wells as incompetent - even uses the term "malpractice". There is definitely a trend in the media and with those who have actually read the reports that this investigation and the conclusions drawn were heavily biased and flawed. Based on what Kraft told Peter King this morning, I'm pretty confident this will eventually wind up in a court of law, where I think the smart money will be on the Pats. Here's the Florio article:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/18/nfl-leaks-disagreement-with-patriots-on-circumstances-for-re-interviewing-witnesses/

Last weeks stunning events in #DeflateGate, with an Angry Ted Wells conference call followed by a Ted Kaczynski-style manifesto from the Patriots, ultimately may be a pair of sparklers in comparison to the fireworks that will fly this week, as a quarterly ownership meeting looms.

From the teams perspective, owner Robert Kraft has gone on the record with Peter King of TheMMQB.com, saying plenty and not saying plenty more. From the leagues perspective, the week has commenced with a leak to Ben Volin of the Boston Globe in response to the teams position that the failure to produce Jim McNally for another interview did not amount to failure to cooperate.

The Patriots contend that they made McNally available multiple times to the NFL, and that before his lengthy interview as part of the independent investigation/special prosecution Ted Wells and company had access to all of the text messages about which they wanted to question McNally in a second interview. The Patriots believe Wells agreed that witnesses wouldnt be made available for a second interview absent unanticipated circumstances, such as the discovery of new evidence.

Heres what the NFL leaked to Volin on Sunday night: The investigators did not agree with [Dan Goldbergs] characterizations in his e-mails and made clear after hearing out all of Dans arguments that they considered the Patriots in violation of the duty to cooperate. This is not like a normal piece of litigation, and if an investigator misses a piece of evidence he has an absolute obligation to follow up on the evidence. The subject of the investigation cannot hide behind technical procedural arguments, especially when the investigators disagree that there ever was an agreement.

If thats the case, and as Volin notes, Ted Wells needs to say so publicly. He already had a chance to do that last Thursday night in comments to Bart Hubbuch of the New York Post, but Wells didnt. Instead, Wells contradicted his own report and said nothing about the absence of an agreement that witnesses wouldnt be questioned a second time based on evidence that Wells had in his files before the first investigation.

Apart from whether Wells agreed to have only one bite out of each apple (which is an extremely common reality in all forms of litigation), the fact that Wells and company flat-out missed two key text messages in which McNally uses the term deflator and deflate speaks to a lack of competence that the NFL should regard as troubling. Any first-year practicing lawyer knows that, before conducting a major interview in any case, its critical to know everything about the person being interviewed.

When documents are available to be reviewed before the interview, the task is simple: Review every single one of them. Twice. When a lawyer is being paid by the hour, theres no incentive to skip steps and theres no incentive to rush through the process of putting eyes on each word appearing on every sheet of paper.

Even if Wells and company somehow missed the documents (which is embarrassing in and of itself), they easily could have done a text search for any words or partial words of interest (like deflat-) to pull up any overlooked documents. Regardless, the failure to spot those critical text messages before the first official interview with McNally would be regarded by many lawyers as malpractice.

So heres the bigger question the NFL surely wont be asking itself as it processes the failure of Ted Wells and his team to find two of the most critical text messages before their first interview of the most critical witness in the case: If Wells missed seeing such obvious and important documents, what else has he missed?

Has anyone from the Pats organization actually come out and made a statement ala "We absolutely did not let air out of the footballs after inspection"? Other than Brady back in Jan.

Kraft .... has said they ..... are guilty ......

surprised I didn't see this in the wells report