Patriots being investigated after Colts game (6 Viewers)

[massraider]

So this cheating was "minor" too?

Not a major advantage?

Let me ask: How many times can you go back to the well for that response when the team is caught cheating?

This would make TWO.

Four? Six?

Just wondering.

 

[Jercules]

So this cheating was "minor" too?

Not a major advantage?

Let me ask: How many times can you go back to the well for that response when the team is caught cheating?

This would make TWO.

Four? Six?

Just wondering.

Interesting hypothetical. How many speeding tickets can you get before they throw you in jail?

('Cheating' is always the key word. Hatriots always say 'cheating' or 'cheaters' because it's vague, and encompasses anything from a camera in the wrong place to paying off the refs. It's like the word 'criminal': if you want to vilify someone and you know they just got caught speeding, call them a 'criminal' because it's an awful label and technically true. If the actual infractions were mentioned instead--'camera on the sidelines', 'slightly deflated footballs'--all these glorious posts people keep making would look inherently ridiculous, particularly the ones about kids and oh my God! Think of the children!!! Ahhh!!!)

 

[Jercules]

I have been involved with youth football since 5 years pre-Spygate, so I would have to say that there is no correlation.

Maybe where I live is just a bigger collection of hoodlums, gangbangers, and thieves. Maybe the rest of the country is filled with do gooders, former choir boys, and people that drive the speed limit and don't cheat on their taxes. Maybe no other team in the NFL other than New England has ever broken the rules. But somehow I doubt it.

But I do hope there are less people in my area accepting cheating and saying it is just minor so let it go with a slap on the wrist.

If it is minor then you do let it go with a slap on the wrist. Such a basic, simple concept...

Another simple concept is that if that "slap on the wrist" doesn't prevent repeat offenses (or other minor offenses), the next time the consequence is more severe.

Absolutely!

A $50,000 fine would have been a whopping 100% increase over the NFL's own prescription for ball tampering. Of course, some might call that a bit extreme, given their horrid 'first offense' was having a camera man in the wrong place seven years ago...

This is sarcasm, right? You don't actually think a $50,000 fine for an NFL team constitutes as a punishment that's not a slap on the wrist.

I don't care what any of us choose to call it. The minimum punishment for ball tampering is a $25,000 fine according to the NFL's own rules.

Since they only sort of proved it happened, and the last time the Pats got caught doing anything was 7 years ago (a camera in the wrong place, remember), I think the punishment should be at least in the same stratosphere as the minimum.

 

[Dezbelief]

So this cheating was "minor" too?

Not a major advantage?

Let me ask: How many times can you go back to the well for that response when the team is caught cheating?

This would make TWO.

Four? Six?

Just wondering.

Interesting hypothetical. How many speeding tickets can you get before they throw you in jail?

('Cheating' is always the key word. Hatriots always say 'cheating' or 'cheaters' because it's vague, and encompasses anything from a camera in the wrong place to paying off the refs. It's like the word 'criminal': if you want to vilify someone and you know they just got caught speeding, call them a 'criminal' because it's an awful label and technically true. If the actual infractions were mentioned instead--'camera on the sidelines', 'slightly deflated footballs'--all these glorious posts people keep making would look inherently ridiculous, particularly the ones about kids and oh my God! Think of the children!!! Ahhh!!!)

Sometimes one speeding ticket will do it, especially if you are a big ##### to the cop. Brady smarted off and got all this rolling.

BB is one smart dude. He distanced himself from this situation quickly and effectively, avoiding punishment. BB knew what was going on, even if Kraft didn't. I guess one thing everybody can agree on is that poor Kraft is more likely than not an innocent victim in all this

 

[massraider]

So this cheating was "minor" too?

Not a major advantage?

Let me ask: How many times can you go back to the well for that response when the team is caught cheating?

This would make TWO.

Four? Six?

Just wondering.

Interesting hypothetical. How many speeding tickets can you get before they throw you in jail?

What if it's not a speeding ticket?

It's certainly comfortable to casually refer to illegally altering footballs (for an undetermined amount of time) as a speeding ticket. When was it decided that this was no big deal?

The NFL certainly doesn't think so. Brady certainly didn't think so. Let me repeat that last bit:

BRADY certainly didn't think so. He clearly didn't think so, or he wouldn't have had team employees engaging in CLEARLY illegal activities for months. He clearly thought it was worth the risk.

Do we all know how big or small a deal illegally inflated footballs are more than Tommy Small Hands? I know I don't pretend to know that better than Brady. Do you?

It might have been no big deal to another QB, or EVERY other QB. But to this QB, to this one guy, it was a big deal. It was important.

 

[Stealthycat]

according to Prioleau’s gauge, three of four Colts’ footballs were under the 12.5 psi threshold at half-time (12.35, 12.30 and 12.15)

Luck should be banned a couple of games and the Colts lose draft picks.

Why?

Because the same way Brady and the Patriots are guilty (under 12.5 PSI) is the same gauge we should use for the Colts too. Cheating is cheating, whether its 2.0 pounds of air of 1.0 or .5

nobody can argue that and yet, the Colts seem to have gotten away clean here

 

[Bayhawks]

I have been involved with youth football since 5 years pre-Spygate, so I would have to say that there is no correlation.

Maybe where I live is just a bigger collection of hoodlums, gangbangers, and thieves. Maybe the rest of the country is filled with do gooders, former choir boys, and people that drive the speed limit and don't cheat on their taxes. Maybe no other team in the NFL other than New England has ever broken the rules. But somehow I doubt it.

But I do hope there are less people in my area accepting cheating and saying it is just minor so let it go with a slap on the wrist.

If it is minor then you do let it go with a slap on the wrist. Such a basic, simple concept...

Another simple concept is that if that "slap on the wrist" doesn't prevent repeat offenses (or other minor offenses), the next time the consequence is more severe.

Absolutely!

A $50,000 fine would have been a whopping 100% increase over the NFL's own prescription for ball tampering. Of course, some might call that a bit extreme, given their horrid 'first offense' was having a camera man in the wrong place seven years ago...

You keep saying this. I wonder if you initially thought this was a fact, or you have just repeated it, SO MANY TIMES, that you have deluded yourself into believing it.

The $25,000 is A MINIMUM. The league can (and has) go above and beyond it. Because the Patriots have pushed the limits of what the rules allow (as virtually ALL Pats fans in this thread have acknowledged), and because they had a public "slap on the wrist" previously (and I'd imagine a number of private "warnings") to avoid it, and because Brady made a very public "study the rulebook," comment just prior to this instance, and because Kraft and Brady acted like self-righteous douchebags after the story 1st broke, and because they refused FULL cooperation, (as is required by the NFL & promised by the Pats), and because Brady outright lied during the aftermath of the story breaking/during the investigation, the punishment went above the minimum. I still think it was too harsh, but only a fool, or someone who has their head in the sand continues to pretend, "it should only have been $25,000!!!!"

 

[moleculo]

I have been involved with youth football since 5 years pre-Spygate, so I would have to say that there is no correlation.

Maybe where I live is just a bigger collection of hoodlums, gangbangers, and thieves. Maybe the rest of the country is filled with do gooders, former choir boys, and people that drive the speed limit and don't cheat on their taxes. Maybe no other team in the NFL other than New England has ever broken the rules. But somehow I doubt it.

But I do hope there are less people in my area accepting cheating and saying it is just minor so let it go with a slap on the wrist.

If it is minor then you do let it go with a slap on the wrist. Such a basic, simple concept...

Another simple concept is that if that "slap on the wrist" doesn't prevent repeat offenses (or other minor offenses), the next time the consequence is more severe.

Absolutely!

A $50,000 fine would have been a whopping 100% increase over the NFL's own prescription for ball tampering. Of course, some might call that a bit extreme, given their horrid 'first offense' was having a camera man in the wrong place seven years ago...

This is sarcasm, right? You don't actually think a $50,000 fine for an NFL team constitutes as a punishment that's not a slap on the wrist.

I don't care what any of us choose to call it. The minimum punishment for ball tampering is a $25,000 fine according to the NFL's own rules.

Since they only sort of proved it happened, and the last time the Pats got caught doing anything was 7 years ago (a camera in the wrong place, remember), I think the punishment should be at least in the same stratosphere as the minimum.

you know, you are right. it should be $25k...per ball. There were 12 balls tamered with in this game, so that's $300k per game. We believe the pats have been doing this since AT LEAST the jets game - that's 11 games. The Pats should be on the hook for $3.3M.

 

[moleculo]

according to Prioleau’s gauge, three of four Colts’ footballs were under the 12.5 psi threshold at half-time (12.35, 12.30 and 12.15)

Luck should be banned a couple of games and the Colts lose draft picks.

Why?

Because the same way Brady and the Patriots are guilty (under 12.5 PSI) is the same gauge we should use for the Colts too. Cheating is cheating, whether its 2.0 pounds of air of 1.0 or .5

nobody can argue that and yet, the Colts seem to have gotten away clean here

really? first time clicking on this thread, I suppose.

 

[moleculo]

So this cheating was "minor" too?

Not a major advantage?

Let me ask: How many times can you go back to the well for that response when the team is caught cheating?

This would make TWO.

Four? Six?

Just wondering.

Interesting hypothetical. How many speeding tickets can you get before they throw you in jail?

('Cheating' is always the key word. Hatriots always say 'cheating' or 'cheaters' because it's vague, and encompasses anything from a camera in the wrong place to paying off the refs. It's like the word 'criminal': if you want to vilify someone and you know they just got caught speeding, call them a 'criminal' because it's an awful label and technically true. If the actual infractions were mentioned instead--'camera on the sidelines', 'slightly deflated footballs'--all these glorious posts people keep making would look inherently ridiculous, particularly the ones about kids and oh my God! Think of the children!!! Ahhh!!!)

no, secretly tampering with officially certified game equipment is cheating. It's about as clear as you can get. This is not gamesmanship - the pats didn't just submit underinflated balls. They smuggled certified balls into a private room and physically altered them conform to their preference, which happened to be outside the NFL's regulations.

That's about as cheating as you can get.

 

[Stealthycat]

tampering with officially certified game equipment is cheating. It's about as clear as you can get.

Colts are guilty - what is their punishment and how many games is that cheater Luck suspended ?

 

[sho nuff]

tampering with officially certified game equipment is cheating. It's about as clear as you can get.

Colts are guilty - what is their punishment and how many games is that cheater Luck suspended ?

Link to them tampering with the balls after inspection?

I missed that.

 

[bostonfred]

no, secretly tampering with officially certified game equipment is cheating. It's about as clear as you can get. This is not gamesmanship - the pats didn't just submit underinflated balls. They smuggled certified balls into a private room and physically altered them conform to their preference, which happened to be outside the NFL's regulations.

That's about as cheating as you can get.

they were alleged to have taken air out of the balls after the fact. The team didn't admit to it, the court system hasn't ruled on it, and the league didn't even specifically penalize them for what you described. So you still have to use the word alleged. As for "about as cheating as you can get", I would tend to agree that what you described would unambiguously be cheating. If that's what happened, it's "about as cheating as you can get" - if we are talking about a yes or no question. if we are talking about degrees of cheating, or brazenness, I would make the case that salary cap violations, pumping in crowd noise, steroid use, deliberately injuring players, snowplowing the field for your kicker during a time out, and of course this https://youtu.be/Uksu8MLIfdM are all on par, but maybe that's not what you were talking about.

 

[moleculo]

no, secretly tampering with officially certified game equipment is cheating. It's about as clear as you can get. This is not gamesmanship - the pats didn't just submit underinflated balls. They smuggled certified balls into a private room and physically altered them conform to their preference, which happened to be outside the NFL's regulations.

That's about as cheating as you can get.

they were alleged to have taken air out of the balls after the fact. The team didn't admit to it, the court system hasn't ruled on it, and the league didn't even specifically penalize them for what you described. So you still have to use the word alleged.As for "about as cheating as you can get", I would tend to agree that what you described would unambiguously be cheating. If that's what happened, it's "about as cheating as you can get" - if we are talking about a yes or no question. if we are talking about degrees of cheating, or brazenness, I would make the case that salary cap violations, pumping in crowd noise, steroid use, deliberately injuring players, snowplowing the field for your kicker during a time out, and of course this https://youtu.be/Uksu8MLIfdM are all on par, but maybe that's not what you were talking about.

why do I have to use the word alleged? Are the patriots really going to sue me for libel for posting something on a message board? Something that the league office found to be more likely true than not?

Further, if the Patriots were to sue anyone for libel, would they not have to prove that the statements were wrong? If they could prove that, they wouldn't be in this mess.

No, I don't think the word "alleged" is required here. However, this is more of a legal matter and there are plenty of folks on this board smarter than I am in this area so I'd be happy to change my opinion if I'm shown to be wrong.

 

[bostonfred]

you're welcome to argue for that. I'm just trying to help. I was actually more interested in the second half of my post. How would you rank the various examples of cheating I mentioned? I'm not trying to make a point about the Patriots' penalty here - I think that point has already been mada and discussed ad nauseum. Just interested to see what people think about the NFL's sense of scale.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

The team didn't admit to it,

Yeah they did. Kraft flatly decided to follow the NFLs stance on it. And the NFL stance is that they cheated.

We dont need to hear any doublespeak or twisting to know those are the facts as they stand.

 

[Run It Up]

tampering with officially certified game equipment is cheating. It's about as clear as you can get.

Colts are guilty - what is their punishment and how many games is that cheater Luck suspended ?

Link to them tampering with the balls after inspection?

I missed that.

If the Pats tampered with the balls after inspection then so did the Colts.

Either that or the laws of physics only apply to the Colts.

 

[Stealthycat]

balls were checked pre-game

the rules say 12.5 to 13.5

if its under that, then the balls WERE tampered with, that's the NFL's ruling on the Patriots

same rules need to be applied here to Colts - those balls were NOT 12.5 - against the rules, they had to have been 12.5 to 13.5 before the game

thus the Colts tampered with them

cold hard facts suck don't they ?

 

[Run It Up]

No reason to muddy a perfectly good argument.

When tested at halftime, the Colts and Pats balls were underinflated by the same amount. Either they both tampered or neither did.

 

[Stealthycat]

it doesn't matter if Luck knew, if he didn't, if the head coach knew or didn't and it doesn't matter HOW the balls were under inflated

fact is, they were, and that's against the rules and that's why the Patriots have been hammered

no facts exist that prove Patriots tampering - just the end result of having under inflated balls

now, if the Colts balls were NOT tampered with ... why were they under inflated ?

there is a reason they had lower than the legal amount - either by laws of physics or someone let the air out. Same way Patriots balls could have been under inflated

unless ya'll are hanging your argument that its not HOW the balls were illegal, but rather how they got there ?? In which case, the NFL should have a Colts investigation too

right ?

is that logic beyond you people ?

 

[Alkahsu]

When the dude handling the balls calls himself the deflator and disappears behind a closed door after inspection it's pretty obvious what he's doing with the footballs.

 

[sho nuff]

tampering with officially certified game equipment is cheating. It's about as clear as you can get.

Colts are guilty - what is their punishment and how many games is that cheater Luck suspended ?

Link to them tampering with the balls after inspection?

I missed that.

If the Pats tampered with the balls after inspection then so did the Colts.

Either that or the laws of physics only apply to the Colts.

Not really...you keep trying that though.

So basically you don't even have any circumstantial evidence that the Colts tampered with balls after inspection...nor are they accused of doing such...nor have they been found to more likely than not have done so...nor have they been punished for doing so.

Maybe bring up Aaron Rodgers again too..always funny when Pats fans try that.

 

[sho nuff]

balls were checked pre-game

the rules say 12.5 to 13.5

if its under that, then the balls WERE tampered with, that's the NFL's ruling on the Patriots

same rules need to be applied here to Colts - those balls were NOT 12.5 - against the rules, they had to have been 12.5 to 13.5 before the game

thus the Colts tampered with them

cold hard facts suck don't they ?

Except you did not use cold hard facts.

The Patriots are not found guilty just because the balls were different at half time.

You are misrepresenting things quite a bit...pretty pitiful effort too.

 

[sho nuff]

it doesn't matter if Luck knew, if he didn't, if the head coach knew or didn't and it doesn't matter HOW the balls were under inflated

fact is, they were, and that's against the rules and that's why the Patriots have been hammered

no facts exist that prove Patriots tampering - just the end result of having under inflated balls

now, if the Colts balls were NOT tampered with ... why were they under inflated ?

there is a reason they had lower than the legal amount - either by laws of physics or someone let the air out. Same way Patriots balls could have been under inflated

unless ya'll are hanging your argument that its not HOW the balls were illegal, but rather how they got there ?? In which case, the NFL should have a Colts investigation too

right ?

is that logic beyond you people ?

You don't seem to know any of the actual facts...you are wrong in nearly every one of your statements.

It does...in fact...matter how the balls got under and that is what made what the Pats did illegal.

You are completely incorrect...and hope you are just trolling.

 

[GoBirds]

No reason to muddy a perfectly good argument.

When tested at halftime, the Colts and Pats balls were underinflated by the same amount. Either they both tampered or neither did.

Uh, no.

 

[JIslander]

Deflate(or insert)gate stages of a Pat's Homer

1. Denial

2. Anger

3. Arm waving

4. More arm waving

5. Even more arm waving

6. Anger again

7. Depression (Red Sox are losing)

8. Anger's back (Pats so pissed everyone will get steamrolled)

9. Arm waving

10. Acceptance ? no way!

I think we're in early stages of #3.

 

[sho nuff]

Deflate(or insert)gate stages of a Pat's Homer

1. Denial

2. Anger

3. Arm waving

4. More arm waving

5. Even more arm waving

6. Anger again

7. Depression (Red Sox are losing)

8. Anger's back (Pats so pissed everyone will get steamrolled)

9. Arm waving

10. Acceptance ? no way!

I think we're in early stages of #3.

Youve missed the excuse stage or justification stage "well, other teams do it too".

 

[Faust]

LOOK: 72-year-old woman defends Tom Brady in her obituary

 

[moleculo]

you're welcome to argue for that. I'm just trying to help. I was actually more interested in the second half of my post. How would you rank the various examples of cheating I mentioned? I'm not trying to make a point about the Patriots' penalty here - I think that point has already been mada and discussed ad nauseum. Just interested to see what people think about the NFL's sense of scale.

its an interesting question. IMO, there are two types of cheating at play: systematic cheating where the team itself does the cheating, and personal cheating where it's a player acting on his own. Neither is good, and both can and should be dealt with. There is also a difference between in-game cheating that impacts a single play or a single game, and systemic procedures that effect all games.

Here's how I see these issues:

• salary cap violations- that's a big deal. Impacts the whole team, all games. More serious than ball tampering.
• pumping in crowd noise - less of a big deal. All this does is (marginally) amplify a home-field advantage, in a way that teams are prepared for. There are degrees involved here too...if it was Seattle that got busted for this, where crowd noise is universally acknoweleged as a strength of the Seahawks...well that might be closer to ball tampering.
• steroid use - this is more typically about a single player, and its usually a marginal player who is just trying to make the team. I think it it came out that team doctors were systematically helping players beat the leagues testing procedures, it would be about the same thing.
• deliberately injuring players - Dirty, but not sure what rule is being broken here.
• snowplowing the field for your kicker during a time out - this is a one time thing that affected one game.
• faking injury to impede a no-huddle offense - Dirty, but not sure what rule is being broken here.

To me, I'd say salary cap violation is the only infraction you listed that is more serious than ball tampering. Crowd noise and steroid use could be, but it's less clear cut.

I also think there are a couple of other factors at play that factored into the severity of the discipline:

• repeat offender - ref spygate
• magnitude - i.e. they were found cheating on a huge stage, leading up to the Super Bowl. I said somewhere else in this thread - if you don't like the spotlight on you, try to avoid championship games.
• assistance in investigation, public acknowledgement of a possible problem, and demonstration of remorse. Attitude goes a long ways, and at no point, to my knowledge, ever admitted even a remote possibility that anyone in their organization might have done something wrong. When Kraft demanded an apology from the NFL for this whole thing, it really forced the league to come down hard. There was no way for the league to go light after Kraft took that posture.

 

[Jercules]

So this cheating was "minor" too?

Not a major advantage?

Let me ask: How many times can you go back to the well for that response when the team is caught cheating?

This would make TWO.

Four? Six?

Just wondering.

Interesting hypothetical. How many speeding tickets can you get before they throw you in jail?

What if it's not a speeding ticket?

It's certainly comfortable to casually refer to illegally altering footballs (for an undetermined amount of time) as a speeding ticket. When was it decided that this was no big deal?

The NFL certainly doesn't think so. Brady certainly didn't think so. Let me repeat that last bit:

BRADY certainly didn't think so. He clearly didn't think so, or he wouldn't have had team employees engaging in CLEARLY illegal activities for months. He clearly thought it was worth the risk.

Do we all know how big or small a deal illegally inflated footballs are more than Tommy Small Hands? I know I don't pretend to know that better than Brady. Do you?

It might have been no big deal to another QB, or EVERY other QB. But to this QB, to this one guy, it was a big deal. It was important.

I have been involved with youth football since 5 years pre-Spygate, so I would have to say that there is no correlation.

Maybe where I live is just a bigger collection of hoodlums, gangbangers, and thieves. Maybe the rest of the country is filled with do gooders, former choir boys, and people that drive the speed limit and don't cheat on their taxes. Maybe no other team in the NFL other than New England has ever broken the rules. But somehow I doubt it.

But I do hope there are less people in my area accepting cheating and saying it is just minor so let it go with a slap on the wrist.

If it is minor then you do let it go with a slap on the wrist. Such a basic, simple concept...

Another simple concept is that if that "slap on the wrist" doesn't prevent repeat offenses (or other minor offenses), the next time the consequence is more severe.

Absolutely!

A $50,000 fine would have been a whopping 100% increase over the NFL's own prescription for ball tampering. Of course, some might call that a bit extreme, given their horrid 'first offense' was having a camera man in the wrong place seven years ago...

You keep saying this. I wonder if you initially thought this was a fact, or you have just repeated it, SO MANY TIMES, that you have deluded yourself into believing it.

The $25,000 is A MINIMUM. The league can (and has) go above and beyond it. Because the Patriots have pushed the limits of what the rules allow (as virtually ALL Pats fans in this thread have acknowledged), and because they had a public "slap on the wrist" previously (and I'd imagine a number of private "warnings") to avoid it, and because Brady made a very public "study the rulebook," comment just prior to this instance, and because Kraft and Brady acted like self-righteous douchebags after the story 1st broke, and because they refused FULL cooperation, (as is required by the NFL & promised by the Pats), and because Brady outright lied during the aftermath of the story breaking/during the investigation, the punishment went above the minimum. I still think it was too harsh, but only a fool, or someone who has their head in the sand continues to pretend, "it should only have been $25,000!!!!"

The minimum is an obvious indication of how seriously the NFL takes ball tampering. The rulebook clearly prescribes a punishment 'including, but not limited to' a fine of $25,000. You can be as obtuse as you want, it doesn't take a genius to realize if the NFL thought this was a crime worthy of six-figure fines and docked draft picks, the minimum would reflect that.

(In fact, if you really want to know how seriously they take ball tampering, read the Wells report. All sorts of gauges, from all sorts of places--none of them league-approved. Sometimes the refs do it, sometimes they delegate--nothing is recorded. Then they leave the balls alone in a public area for 15-20 minutes while they go do their pregame. [Keep in mind, this was the protocol for a playoff game before which the refs had been alerted to the possibility of ball tampering, as in, "guys, if you're ever gonna do it properly and professionally, do it now!"]

It's hilarious to read how lazy and haphazard this whole this was, and then see people on here like moleculo pretending the Pats orchestrated some sort of Italian Job to get the balls deflated.)

But I digress. In the real world, where things actually matter, we have courts to prevent this kind of chicanery. Ideally, evidence is collected through strict protocols, examined by an impartial and rational party, and a decision is delivered that ignores the will of the mob.

But the NFL is a business, and the massive public tidal wave of Patriots fatigue and hatred affects business, so nobody can afford to be serious about these things.

My great fear is in seven more years, when we're caught using cleats that are 0.5 inches longer than what's stipulated by some rule from the 1940's, we lose our whole draft, 50 million dollars, and Johnathan Kraft is dragged to the village square and shot.

 

[JIslander]

Deflate(or insert)gate stages of a Pat's Homer

1. Denial

2. Anger

2a. Bargaining - Usually, the negotiation for an extended life is made with a higher power (Goodell) in exchange for a reformed lifestyle (not cheating) Other times, they will use anything valuable against another human agency to extend or prolong the life (everybody else does it).

3. Arm waving

4. More arm waving

5. Even more arm waving

6. Anger again

7. Depression (Red Sox are losing)

8. Anger's back (Pats so pissed everyone will get steamrolled)

9. Arm waving

10. Acceptance ? no way!

I think we're in early stages of #3.

Youve missed the excuse stage or justification stage "well, other teams do it too".

Agreed. I didn't think Kubler Ross's "bargaining" belonged here, but in that sense, it does fit (as edited).

 

[moleculo]

...

It's hilarious to read how lazy and haphazard this whole this was, and then see people on here like moleculo pretending the Pats orchestrated some sort of Italian Job to get the balls deflated.)

...

I did what now?I hardly think some guy nicknamed "the deflator", who was caught on video sneaking the balls into a lone bathroom pre-game, constitutes some sort of "italian job".

 

[amnesiac]

no, the Colts balls don't count cause they didn't win and Luck wasn't snarky with anyone.

crap science.

 

[amnesiac]

this thread is going to be absolute gold once the next franchise is caught "cheating".

the backpedaling by that franchise is going to be epic.

 

[JIslander]

this thread is going to be absolute gold once the next franchise is caught "cheating".

the backpedaling by that franchise is going to be epic.

Fortunately, a new thread name won't be needed as the Pats, under pressure to prove they are legit, will get caught again.

 

[amnesiac]

this thread is going to be absolute gold once the next franchise is caught "cheating".

the backpedaling by that franchise is going to be epic.

Fortunately, a new thread name won't be needed as the Pats, under pressure to prove they are legit, will get caught again.

right, cause the Pats are the only franshise smart enough to "cheat."

 

[amnesiac]

this thread is going to be absolute gold once the next franchise is caught "cheating".

the backpedaling by that franchise is going to be epic.

Fortunately, a new thread name won't be needed as the Pats, under pressure to prove they are legit, will get caught again.

oh, and they'll be "penalized" by another Super Bowl Championship. i wish my Browns "cheated" like the Pats.

 

[JIslander]

this thread is going to be absolute gold once the next franchise is caught "cheating".

the backpedaling by that franchise is going to be epic.

Fortunately, a new thread name won't be needed as the Pats, under pressure to prove they are legit, will get caught again.

oh, and they'll be "penalized" by another Super Bowl Championship.i wish my Browns "cheated" like the Pats.

Duh. They're not "smart" enough.

 

[amnesiac]

this thread is going to be absolute gold once the next franchise is caught "cheating".

the backpedaling by that franchise is going to be epic.

Fortunately, a new thread name won't be needed as the Pats, under pressure to prove they are legit, will get caught again.

oh, and they'll be "penalized" by another Super Bowl Championship.i wish my Browns "cheated" like the Pats.

Duh. They're not "smart" enough.

i wish they were.

 

[GoBirds]

this thread is going to be absolute gold once the next franchise is caught "cheating".

the backpedaling by that franchise is going to be epic.

Oh no need to wait, it is already gold.

 

[Stealthycat]

I see

So its NOT about using illegally inflated balls like both the Colts and Patriots had in the AFC championship game

Its about text messages?

When the Colts were investigated, what was found? Oh ... you mean the Colts were not investigated? Why ?

 

[Stealthycat]

Patriots had deflated balls - the reason is, they cheated

Colts had deflated balls - the reason is they ______________

fill in the blank - pretty obvious rules violations occurred isn't it ? now, if you want to say there was ANOTHER reason the Colts balls deflated other than cheating you also have to apply that to patriots

what ya'll are doing is saying one team had lower ball pressure than acceptable because they cheated, the other team had lower than acceptable ball pressure too, by chance/coincidence/Luck

 

[massraider]

Rally to support Tom Brady draws 150 people outside Gillette stadium.

Hope they didn't have to call in the National Guard for crowd control.

Relevant quotes:

According to media reports, the demonstration included a recently married couple that is not honeymooning in Bermuda in solidarity with with the Patriots after Brady’s four-game suspension.

“We want to be here to support our Patriots, and until that ban is lifted we’re not going on our honeymoon,” said Paul Goodrow of Watertown, Mass., according to the Boston Herald. “Our whole house is like a man cave.

“The NFL debacled this so-called Deflategate. It’s just ridiculous. It’s all because of fans from other states who hate us because they ain’t us. I believe that he is innocent. This is just a smear campaign against the Patriots.”

 

[JIslander]

Rally to support Tom Brady draws 150 people outside Gillette stadium.

Hope they didn't have to call in the National Guard for crowd control.

Relevant quotes:

According to media reports, the demonstration included a recently married couple that is not honeymooning in Bermuda in solidarity with with the Patriots after Brady’s four-game suspension.

“We want to be here to support our Patriots, and until that ban is lifted we’re not going on our honeymoon,” said Paul Goodrow of Watertown, Mass., according to the Boston Herald. “Our whole house is like a man cave.

“The NFL debacled this so-called Deflategate. It’s just ridiculous. It’s all because of fans from other states who hate us because they ain’t us. I believe that he is innocent. This is just a smear campaign against the Patriots.”

wow. I presume they used multiple crowd size estimation metrics for that...what a turnout

 

[skinsrule05]

Rally to support Tom Brady draws 150 people outside Gillette stadium.

Hope they didn't have to call in the National Guard for crowd control.

Relevant quotes:

According to media reports, the demonstration included a recently married couple that is not honeymooning in Bermuda in solidarity with with the Patriots after Brady’s four-game suspension.

“We want to be here to support our Patriots, and until that ban is lifted we’re not going on our honeymoon,” said Paul Goodrow of Watertown, Mass., according to the Boston Herald. “Our whole house is like a man cave.

“The NFL debacled this so-called Deflategate. It’s just ridiculous. It’s all because of fans from other states who hate us because they ain’t us. I believe that he is innocent. This is just a smear campaign against the Patriots.”

I am actually surprised at this number. I didn't think there was 150 people in the whole country that thought he was innocent.

 

[skinsrule05]

this thread is going to be absolute gold once the next franchise is caught "cheating".

the backpedaling by that franchise is going to be epic.

Fortunately, a new thread name won't be needed as the Pats, under pressure to prove they are legit, will get caught again.

right, cause the Pats are the only franshise smart enough to "cheat."

Actually, if you go by the rest of this thread every team is cheating. The patriots are the only team to get caught this much. I don't know if smart is the word I would use.

 

[Stealthycat]

Colts got caught too - 75% of the balls tested were under inflated

where is the outrage ? cheating, rule breaking Colt

 

[MaxThreshold]

Rally to support Tom Brady draws 150 people outside Gillette stadium.

Hope they didn't have to call in the National Guard for crowd control.

Relevant quotes:

According to media reports, the demonstration included a recently married couple that is not honeymooning in Bermuda in solidarity with with the Patriots after Brady’s four-game suspension.

“We want to be here to support our Patriots, and until that ban is lifted we’re not going on our honeymoon,” said Paul Goodrow of Watertown, Mass., according to the Boston Herald. “Our whole house is like a man cave.

“The NFL debacled this so-called Deflategate. It’s just ridiculous. It’s all because of fans from other states who hate us because they ain’t us. I believe that he is innocent. This is just a smear campaign against the Patriots.”

I am actually surprised at this number. I didn't think there was 150 people in the whole country that thought he was innocent.

#TomBradyMatters

 

[sho nuff]

I see

So its NOT about using illegally inflated balls like both the Colts and Patriots had in the AFC championship game

Its about text messages?

When the Colts were investigated, what was found? Oh ... you mean the Colts were not investigated? Why ?

You're trying too hard...

 

[skinsrule05]

Colts got caught too - 75% of the balls tested were under inflated

where is the outrage ? cheating, rule breaking Colt

You are embarrassing yourself.