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Patriots being investigated after Colts game (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter HobbesAB
- Start date
Stealthycat
Footballguy
They didn't find anything within the Colts because they never looked. There was never an investigation - why?
Colts broke the rules - but they wasn't interviewed or questioned. Luck was never asked to give his phone records.
They re inflated the Colts flat balls and forgot about it. They didn't even take 2 minutes to test all the Colts balls.
Why ?
Colts broke the rules - but they wasn't interviewed or questioned. Luck was never asked to give his phone records.
They re inflated the Colts flat balls and forgot about it. They didn't even take 2 minutes to test all the Colts balls.
Why ?
BoltNlava
Footballguy
DropKick
Footballguy
Ever hear the saying "curiosity killed the cat"? If I were you, I wouldn't ask so many questions.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
ya'll don't want to talk about those things because there is no logical reason for them
231 pages and nobody has given one fact on why those cheating Colts were not hammered for deflating their balls like the Patriots were
231 pages and nobody has given one fact on why those cheating Colts were not hammered for deflating their balls like the Patriots were
Chicago Hooligan
Footballguy
You'd better read all the pages again just in case.
rockaction
Footballguy
apalmer
Footballguy
On the bright side, he can skip all the posts he made because he knows there's nothing of consequence in them. That should cut the review time considerably.
Old Smiley
Footballguy
I'll give Stealthycat a break, and suggest that the point he's making is that there was no procedure in place to confirm that there was even a reason to go ahead with an investigation. Everything starting with the half time tests was done ad hoc (hell, starting with the ball boys complaint) and then somebody from the Colts leaked, and then the league leaked and then the media went holier than thou ballistic. And then the league went into "integrity of the game" , and "cover your ###" mode.Not once in 231 pages?Stealthycat said:
Old Smiley
Footballguy
Posted by Michael David Smith re: Olbermann
"...multiple sources within ESPN believe that the NFL gave ESPN a weak slate of Monday Night Football games this year as “payback for Simmons and Olbermann.” It seems unlikely that the NFL would cut off its nose to spite its face like that, but some folks at ESPN apparently believe that’s exactly what happened."
There's your NFL folks. That's the professional organization that conducted this.
"...multiple sources within ESPN believe that the NFL gave ESPN a weak slate of Monday Night Football games this year as “payback for Simmons and Olbermann.” It seems unlikely that the NFL would cut off its nose to spite its face like that, but some folks at ESPN apparently believe that’s exactly what happened."
There's your NFL folks. That's the professional organization that conducted this.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Wait...because espn claims it...it means the investigation was bad?
Oh...and anyone thinks the nfl cares that much about KO and Simmons...who were both let go?
Chicago Hooligan
Footballguy
"Pro Football Talk" checking in with unnamed sources who believe rather than know things. Sunrise, sunset.
DropKick
Footballguy
The "intercepted" ball was measured three times (after it was in the Colt's possession) and it came in at 11.45, 11.35 and 11.75 using a gauge from the locker room. My first question when I read the report was shy so much variability on the SAME ball. The range between the low and high reading is 0.4 PSI. Is the measurement that inexact? Or, does it lose air on each measurement? There is an awful of precise numerical analysis in the wells report. Does anyone know if the addressed repeatability of measurements?I'll give Stealthycat a break, and suggest that the point he's making is that there was no procedure in place to confirm that there was even a reason to go ahead with an investigation. Everything starting with the half time tests was done ad hoc (hell, starting with the ball boys complaint) and then somebody from the Colts leaked, and then the league leaked and then the media went holier than thou ballistic. And then the league went into "integrity of the game" , and "cover your ###" mode.Not once in 231 pages?Stealthycat said:
And, actually, the high reading of 11.75 is about where the ball should be given the temperature drop. So, yes, I'll agree the "urgency" to measure the balls at half time was exaggerated.
Run It Up
Footballguy
Yes
Yes, it does lose some pressure each time it is measured. They even mention it in the Wells report.
Three key areas where Deflate-gate report is blinding us with science
http://www.torontosun.com/2015/07/06/3-keys-areas-where-deflate-gate-report-is-blinding-us-with-science
a) “Thus, the Wells/Exponent science boils down to an innocent-or-guilty discrepancy of a mere 120 to 180 seconds. If the Patriots’ footballs were tested within the first four minutes of halftime? No cheating. If pressure-testing didn’t finish until six or seven minutes into halftime? Cheating.”
b) “Just before the footballs came in for halftime measurements, the Patriots footballs were being used [in the cold and rain] while the Colts footballs were being held in trash bags. The Patriots ball boys did not use bags, thereby exposing the footballs more to the rain.”
“Meaning that Exponent based its science on the assumption that Patriots’ and Colts’ balls at halftime had been subjected to identical first-half conditions. When they weren’t.”
[SIZE=12pt]c) “That conclusion was reached because of Exponent’s incomplete master-gauge conversions, which changed the verdicts on 8-of-11 Patriots balls, as taken by the “logo gauge,” from compliant to non-compliant.”[/SIZE]
http://www.torontosun.com/2015/07/06/3-keys-areas-where-deflate-gate-report-is-blinding-us-with-science
a) “Thus, the Wells/Exponent science boils down to an innocent-or-guilty discrepancy of a mere 120 to 180 seconds. If the Patriots’ footballs were tested within the first four minutes of halftime? No cheating. If pressure-testing didn’t finish until six or seven minutes into halftime? Cheating.”
b) “Just before the footballs came in for halftime measurements, the Patriots footballs were being used [in the cold and rain] while the Colts footballs were being held in trash bags. The Patriots ball boys did not use bags, thereby exposing the footballs more to the rain.”
“Meaning that Exponent based its science on the assumption that Patriots’ and Colts’ balls at halftime had been subjected to identical first-half conditions. When they weren’t.”
[SIZE=12pt]c) “That conclusion was reached because of Exponent’s incomplete master-gauge conversions, which changed the verdicts on 8-of-11 Patriots balls, as taken by the “logo gauge,” from compliant to non-compliant.”[/SIZE]
You've got to wonder how much air got out of those footballs when Anderson measured them in pregame. Yet another variable completely unaccounted for in the Wells report.The "intercepted" ball was measured three times (after it was in the Colt's possession) and it came in at 11.45, 11.35 and 11.75 using a gauge from the locker room. My first question when I read the report was shy so much variability on the SAME ball. The range between the low and high reading is 0.4 PSI. Is the measurement that inexact? Or, does it lose air on each measurement? There is an awful of precise numerical analysis in the wells report. Does anyone know if the addressed repeatability of measurements?I'll give Stealthycat a break, and suggest that the point he's making is that there was no procedure in place to confirm that there was even a reason to go ahead with an investigation. Everything starting with the half time tests was done ad hoc (hell, starting with the ball boys complaint) and then somebody from the Colts leaked, and then the league leaked and then the media went holier than thou ballistic. And then the league went into "integrity of the game" , and "cover your ###" mode.Not once in 231 pages?
And, actually, the high reading of 11.75 is about where the ball should be given the temperature drop. So, yes, I'll agree the "urgency" to measure the balls at half time was exaggerated.
Of course, the better question is: What were those pregame readings anyhow?
I mean, to unequivocally conclude that balls were deflated, wouldn't you have to know what the psis were to begin with?
Shouldn't you have better initial numbers than 25 psi readings Walt Anderson half remembers days (weeks?) after the game, especially since you're unwilling to trust his recollection when it comes to the gauge he used pregame?
Not to mention the Patriots had a first half time-of-possession advantage of exactly five minutes--five extra minutes of their footballs getting clutched, tucked, thrown, caught, etc.
If the exact timing of the halftime measurements could throw said measurements off by a significant amount, I have to think the TOP discrepancy would be significant as well (with regards to both the lower psis and greater variance of psi measurements of the Pats' balls vs. the Colts').
Old Smiley
Footballguy
"Simmons, Olbermann fired... Soon my victory will be complete. Mwaaa haa ha haha"
DropKick
Footballguy
Old Smiley
Footballguy
I don't think it even has to be that he wanted them below the minimum. He just didn't want any sixteen pounders.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
[icon]
Insoxicated
11,500+ posts and counting...
UPDATE:
Who posted in: Patriots being investigated after Col...
Member name Posts
12punch 706
Run It Up 467
moleculo 308
General Tso 306
Old Smiley 281
mbuehner 275
The General 249
shader 242
Anarchy99 240
GoBirds 231
rockaction 198
ROCKET 185
Bayhawks 181
espnespn 180
wdcrob 178
BigSteelThrill 168
Tango 167
Dr. Octopus 164
Baloney Sandwich 161
Kool-Aid Larry 160
BustedKnuckles 157
Deamon 154
Projecting 13k posts within 24 hours of the ruling being announced
UPDATE:
Who posted in: Patriots being investigated after Col...
Member name Posts
12punch 706
Run It Up 467
moleculo 308
General Tso 306
Old Smiley 281
mbuehner 275
The General 249
shader 242
Anarchy99 240
GoBirds 231
rockaction 198
ROCKET 185
Bayhawks 181
espnespn 180
wdcrob 178
BigSteelThrill 168
Tango 167
Dr. Octopus 164
Baloney Sandwich 161
Kool-Aid Larry 160
BustedKnuckles 157
Deamon 154
Projecting 13k posts within 24 hours of the ruling being announced
Last edited by a moderator:
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Old Smiley
Footballguy
Chicago Hooligan
Footballguy
This member is no longer active.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I don't know. Didn't even know he was banned.
I Just noticed that they both posted in the same style and one screen name would disappear for a while and the other one would be taking it's place.
Old Smiley
Footballguy
That twelve percent juice guy lasted ten minutes and I haven't seen any of 'them' since.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
Jrodicus
Footballguy
Google "gage R&R"The "intercepted" ball was measured three times (after it was in the Colt's possession) and it came in at 11.45, 11.35 and 11.75 using a gauge from the locker room. My first question when I read the report was shy so much variability on the SAME ball. The range between the low and high reading is 0.4 PSI. Is the measurement that inexact? Or, does it lose air on each measurement? There is an awful of precise numerical analysis in the wells report. Does anyone know if the addressed repeatability of measurements?I'll give Stealthycat a break, and suggest that the point he's making is that there was no procedure in place to confirm that there was even a reason to go ahead with an investigation. Everything starting with the half time tests was done ad hoc (hell, starting with the ball boys complaint) and then somebody from the Colts leaked, and then the league leaked and then the media went holier than thou ballistic. And then the league went into "integrity of the game" , and "cover your ###" mode.Not once in 231 pages?
And, actually, the high reading of 11.75 is about where the ball should be given the temperature drop. So, yes, I'll agree the "urgency" to measure the balls at half time was exaggerated.
Pots
Footballguy
Honestly, this makes me feel a bit better about Pats fans in general, knowing that not as many of them are like that as once thought.
Baloney Sandwich
Footballguy
Sounds like Goodell will announce today or tomorrow the decision on Brady.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
matuski
Footballguy
NFL fans are eating this up... NFL is just dragging this out before it sparks the next 150 pages of drama over air pressure.
Old Smiley
Footballguy
Always figured they'd wait 'till the Pluto flyby.
BroadwayG
Footballguy
Old Smiley
Footballguy
What's the hold up?
Kidding. I'll tell you what the hold up is. It's Goodell thinks a particular date will be either advantageous or less damaging from a league PR standpoint. Because Goodell is a PR flack to his core. He can only operate in that way. I'm not saying he's especially good at it, but that's all he can do.
Workhorse
Footballguy
Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter 8m8 minutes ago
NFLPA sources tell ABC News' @ryansmithtv that if Tom Brady is suspended for any games, they expect to challenge decision in federal court.
NFLPA sources tell ABC News' @ryansmithtv that if Tom Brady is suspended for any games, they expect to challenge decision in federal court.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
it will be too late then. I doubt court hears it before the start of the season, unless it issues an injunction
bostonfred
Footballguy
There's a lot involved in this decision.
If they don't reduce the suspension, this will certainly lead to a law suit that the NFL doesn't want.
The easy way out for the league would be to just say that the suspension had been reduced because there was no evidence that Brady was complicit but he is still suspended because of lack of participation. That makes the league happy, and Brady happy, because he gets cleared of wrong doing.
But the nflpa will still fight it, because they don't want player reps to be suspended for refusing to provide their personal cell phone (even with the assurances from the league and investigator). They can't allow this precedent to stand.
But if they're going to fight it on that ground, then they would have to say that the non cooperation was something other than the cell phone records. But that is inconsistent with the wells report.
They could drop the suspension altogether, which would make the nflpa and Brady happy, but then the league would be in a bind with their come down hard on anyncrime policy. And the team would have gotten the worst penalty in NFL history and the qb nothing. Fans would howl on both sides, and if they didn't already, owners would have legitimate questions about Goodell.
And the timing of the hardy suspension reduction makes this even more complicated.
No matter what happens someone is going to be unhappy. In the absence of a clear win I suspect Goodell will choose the option that most favors him personally. I think he gambles that a Brady law suit will be postponed repeatedly and does not reduce it at all. But that's just my guess right now.
If they don't reduce the suspension, this will certainly lead to a law suit that the NFL doesn't want.
The easy way out for the league would be to just say that the suspension had been reduced because there was no evidence that Brady was complicit but he is still suspended because of lack of participation. That makes the league happy, and Brady happy, because he gets cleared of wrong doing.
But the nflpa will still fight it, because they don't want player reps to be suspended for refusing to provide their personal cell phone (even with the assurances from the league and investigator). They can't allow this precedent to stand.
But if they're going to fight it on that ground, then they would have to say that the non cooperation was something other than the cell phone records. But that is inconsistent with the wells report.
They could drop the suspension altogether, which would make the nflpa and Brady happy, but then the league would be in a bind with their come down hard on anyncrime policy. And the team would have gotten the worst penalty in NFL history and the qb nothing. Fans would howl on both sides, and if they didn't already, owners would have legitimate questions about Goodell.
And the timing of the hardy suspension reduction makes this even more complicated.
No matter what happens someone is going to be unhappy. In the absence of a clear win I suspect Goodell will choose the option that most favors him personally. I think he gambles that a Brady law suit will be postponed repeatedly and does not reduce it at all. But that's just my guess right now.
Old Smiley
Footballguy
I read a piece a while ago, which I totally can't find, where it said Goodell is content to continue things the way they are in getting continually overruled in court. No down side to losing before a judge, so why change.
