Patriots being investigated after Colts game (6 Viewers)

[IvanKaramazov]

From the Monday Morning Quarterback:

I think this is what Id do on the Tom Brady sanction if I were Roger Goodell: Id announce Im deferring all punishment until the end of the 2015 season while the air pressure in footballs pre-game, at halftime and post-game is studied in 267 regular- and post-season games. It is a fact that air pressure in footballs has never been measured at halftime and post-game, and has never been recorded before, during and after games. So, to see if the variance in pressure in the Patriots footballs from the AFC Championship Game was indeed unusual, lets have a body of work to compare them tofootballs in the heat of September and the cold of December and January. Basically, despending on which physics expert you believe, its either a stretch to think the Patriots footballs deflated as much as they did by halftime of the game against Indy Jan. 18, or a perfectly normal occurrence. This is too important, the legacy of one of the games all-time greats, to hand down discipline without being more sure than anyone could be now about Bradys guilt.

Of course this is what should have happened before any kind of action was taken at all. I also think this is why Kraft backed off. To fight the NFL's case, this is the sort of data you would need.

So we're right back to how outrageously stupid this thing was from the get-go.

Edit: One of you smart guys will have to tell me if even a single season is enough to really get a valid sample.

But how does this season long sample explain Brady's refusal to cooperate with the NFL investigation, as he is contractually obligated to do?

Or the text messages?

 

[Old Smiley]

Goodell: No timeline on Brady appeal

Sure there is you lying ####. You're going to string it out so the court case (with deferment) will threaten to make the suspension come late in season or in the playoffs.

You fans of other teams tell me how you like the way this is going down.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Goodell: No timeline on Brady appeal

Sure there is you lying ####. You're going to string it out so the court case (with deferment) will threaten to make the suspension come late in season or in the playoffs.

You fans of other teams tell me how you like the way this is going down.

I have to side with you guys in that the delays between the initial punishment and the appeal hearing and the appeal hearing and the final ruling are/were stupidly long. There's no reason why this all couldn't have been wrapped up in a few weeks, and that would have been more fair to the Patriots and Brady.

On the other hand, I will also be honest and admit that I'm enjoying it.

 

[Bayhawks]

Goodell: No timeline on Brady appeal

Sure there is you lying ####. You're going to string it out so the court case (with deferment) will threaten to make the suspension come late in season or in the playoffs.

You fans of other teams tell me how you like the way this is going down.

While you may be right, I look at this as possibly being a situation where Goodell/the NFL is looking for a way to save face, but still avoid a legal situation. Maybe there are secretly negotiating with Brady about a compromise that he'd be willing to accept?

Based on the reports that Brady wants the entire suspension lifted, I'm not sure what kind of compromise could be reached, but I'm not sure this is a completely unrealistic scenario.

 

[Old Smiley]

Well, I just want to say that when it's your team's turn I'll be..... on your side. Just saying. Bogus is bogus.

 

[Bayhawks]

Well, I just want to say that when it's your team's turn I'll be..... on your side. Just saying. Bogus is bogus.

Maybe, but it's not like the NFL only picks on the Pats (although many NE fans in this thread seem to believe that).

My team is the Redskins & they got screwed (along with the Cowboys) during the uncapped year. $36 million of cap space taken away because they did something that wasn't even against the rules (but the NFL said "don't do that.")

 

[Old Smiley]

Well, I just want to say that when it's your team's turn I'll be..... on your side. Just saying. Bogus is bogus.

Maybe, but it's not like the NFL only picks on the Pats (although many NE fans in this thread seem to believe that).

My team is the Redskins & they got screwed (along with the Cowboys) during the uncapped year. $36 million of cap space taken away because they did something that wasn't even against the rules (but the NFL said "don't do that.")

Yep. Totally agree with you. You punish these teams for not colluding?

 

[skinsrule05]

Which relatively successful QB shor nuff recently said the following?

“‘I like to push the limit to how much air we can put in the football, even go over what they allow you to do and see if the officials take air out of it,'”

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/20/aaron-rodgers-likes-his-footballs-overinflated/

Did he alter them after inspection?

Been over this...many times in this thread.

Or did you think you were the first to bring Rodgers' comments up in a pitiful attempt to defend Tom Brady.

We don't know if the packers altered the balls after the fact, though I wonder what would be found if the nfl went back a year and combed thru the Packers txt messages. I bet it is more probable than not some interesting inflate messages would be found.

People can argue that Rodgers and the packers cheating wasn't as bad as NEs alleged offense (I agree), but people can't argue it wasn't cheating; it is. There is nothing ambiguous about "even go over what they allow you to do and see if the officials take air out of it, it is cheating. They obviously played some games with over inflated balls and just because the ref missed it doesn't mean it wasn't cheating it was. If they put helium in the ball and the refs missed it, would that not be cheating? That Rodgers and the Packers cheated isn't open to debate, they admitted it. The only thing open to debate is the level of cheating in comparison to the allegations against Brady and NE.

Packer fans may not like hearing their beloved Rodgers is a cheater but we know for a fact he is since he bragged about it. The biggest difference imho is Rodgers and the packers haven't been nearly as successful as NE has over the last 15 years so no one cares. Several posters are here primarily because they are obsessively jealous of NEs success and that's fine, but what is good for the goose is good for the gander. I'm using facts to call out the jealous hypocrites for what they are and if there is anything factually incorrect with what I have said please let me know what it is.

That is so not the biggest difference. You gotta remove the blinders. One player presented the refs with the balls the way he wanted them and hoped it would go unnoticed. The other player presented the balls the way they were supposed to be, then allegedly had them altered following the inspection. If the allegations are true, that is clearly the biggest difference, and their records over the past 15 years are 100% irrelevant in comparison.

If Brady came out and said "I actually like a ball inflated more than the league allows and we noticed the refs weren't checking them religiously so we experimented a little more each week and found we could get a 14 PSI ball into the game", I think the anti-NE crowd would be up in arms about bending the rules, etc.

And I think that if Brady said, "We have guys on the sideline whose only jobs are to deflate the footballs to the pressure I like after they're inspected and we pay them off by having our team physicians slip them oxy" the Patriot lovers wouldn't see anything wrong with that. Is my straw man as good as yours?

No, it's actually idiotic.

The situation I presented was not far from what Rodgers said they did. I personally don't have a problem with it. My point was that some will interpret the same thing different ways depending on the parties involved. Thanks for proving my point.

Of course you don't have a problem with it. What Rogers did was 1/10th as bad as what Brady allegedly did. If you had a problem with what Rogers did then you would have to be on the side that Brady's reputation is forever tarnished.

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

From the Monday Morning Quarterback:

I think this is what Id do on the Tom Brady sanction if I were Roger Goodell: Id announce Im deferring all punishment until the end of the 2015 season while the air pressure in footballs pre-game, at halftime and post-game is studied in 267 regular- and post-season games. It is a fact that air pressure in footballs has never been measured at halftime and post-game, and has never been recorded before, during and after games. So, to see if the variance in pressure in the Patriots footballs from the AFC Championship Game was indeed unusual, lets have a body of work to compare them tofootballs in the heat of September and the cold of December and January. Basically, despending on which physics expert you believe, its either a stretch to think the Patriots footballs deflated as much as they did by halftime of the game against Indy Jan. 18, or a perfectly normal occurrence. This is too important, the legacy of one of the games all-time greats, to hand down discipline without being more sure than anyone could be now about Bradys guilt.

Of course this is what should have happened before any kind of action was taken at all. I also think this is why Kraft backed off. To fight the NFL's case, this is the sort of data you would need.

So we're right back to how outrageously stupid this thing was from the get-go.

Edit: One of you smart guys will have to tell me if even a single season is enough to really get a valid sample.

But how does this season long sample explain Brady's refusal to cooperate with the NFL investigation, as he is contractually obligated to do?

Or the text messages?

Once Chris Mortenson\ESPN and someone from the league office smeared NE (Jan 21) it was an obvious witch hunt (smears, leaks etc) and there is no way I would have given the league any personal records.

As for "txt messages", what text messages are there that indicate (never mind proove, how about just implicate) that Brady knew something illegal was being done to the ball post inspection????

FTR, I bet a check of GBs equipment guys text messages would reveal talk of overinflating the ball (which they admitted doing) does that mean Rodgers would have to know if his equipment guys occasionally did something after the balls were inspected? No, of course it doesn't and it doesn't with brady either no matter how jealous and envious you are of him and his team.

Again, one more time: I don't claim that letting some air out of a ball after it is inspected (as is "alleged" against ne) is the same (as bad) as intentionally submitting and playing with overinflated balls as Rodgers and the packers bragged about. I only claim that both are clearly cheating and the end result is very similar if not exactly the same.

 

[PDX_Seahawk]

I hope the suspension is reduced to zero so the media doesn't feel compelled to talk about Brady's "motivation" all damn season. Moreover, I don't want Brady playing with any additional motivation. I want the NFL to admit they jumped the gun, live with the egg on their face, and deflate gate to DIE. As much as I'm convinced Brady was involved in tampering with the balls at some level, him being suspended for even one game will have an adverse consequence for the rest of the league. Kill deflate gate.

 

[Stealthycat]

what motivation by Goodell to drag this out ?

 

[Bayhawks]

From the Monday Morning Quarterback:

I think this is what Id do on the Tom Brady sanction if I were Roger Goodell: Id announce Im deferring all punishment until the end of the 2015 season while the air pressure in footballs pre-game, at halftime and post-game is studied in 267 regular- and post-season games. It is a fact that air pressure in footballs has never been measured at halftime and post-game, and has never been recorded before, during and after games. So, to see if the variance in pressure in the Patriots footballs from the AFC Championship Game was indeed unusual, lets have a body of work to compare them tofootballs in the heat of September and the cold of December and January. Basically, despending on which physics expert you believe, its either a stretch to think the Patriots footballs deflated as much as they did by halftime of the game against Indy Jan. 18, or a perfectly normal occurrence. This is too important, the legacy of one of the games all-time greats, to hand down discipline without being more sure than anyone could be now about Bradys guilt.

Of course this is what should have happened before any kind of action was taken at all. I also think this is why Kraft backed off. To fight the NFL's case, this is the sort of data you would need.

So we're right back to how outrageously stupid this thing was from the get-go.

Edit: One of you smart guys will have to tell me if even a single season is enough to really get a valid sample.

But how does this season long sample explain Brady's refusal to cooperate with the NFL investigation, as he is contractually obligated to do?

Or the text messages?

Once Chris Mortenson\ESPN and someone from the league office smeared NE (Jan 21) it was an obvious witch hunt (smears, leaks etc) and there is no way I would have given the league any personal records.

That's a sound argument, I guess. "You're trying to prove I did something wrong; I have personal records that prove I'm innocent, but I won't let you (or anyone else) see them to prove a point. Haha-I showed you!"

As for "txt messages", what text messages are there that indicate (never mind proove, how about just implicate) that Brady knew something illegal was being done to the ball post inspection????

What text messages are there to indicate that Brady didn't know something illegal was being done to the balls post inspection?

FTR, I bet a check of GBs equipment guys text messages would reveal talk of overinflating the ball (which they admitted doing) does that mean Rodgers would have to know if his equipment guys occasionally did something after the balls were inspected? No, of course it doesn't and it doesn't with brady either no matter how jealous and envious you are of him and his team.

FTR, I bet a check of Brady's text messages would reveal talk of deflating balls, regardless of how much you want to deny it.

Again, one more time: I don't claim that letting some air out of a ball after it is inspected (as is "alleged" against ne) is the same (as bad) as intentionally submitting and playing with overinflated balls as Rodgers and the packers bragged about. I only claim that both are clearly cheating and the end result is very similar if not exactly the same.

Both are not clearly cheating. In one instance, a player is altering an approved game ball, AFTER it's been approved. In another, a player is playing with an approved game ball THAT THE OFFICIALS MISTAKENLY APPROVED. In the first instance, the player cheated, in the 2nd instance, they officials made the mistake, and the player is following the rules by playing with the ball the officials tell him to play with.

 

[Anarchy99]

I still openly question the logic in the Wells report including a text exchange where Brady had to play against the Jets with footballs at 16 PSI. IMO, that shows that the Patriots didn't alter the footballs (at least in that game) and does nothing to prove that NE did anything to alter the air pressure after the footballs were inspected by the officiating crew.

 

[Run It Up]

I still openly question the logic in the Wells report including a text exchange where Brady had to play against the Jets with footballs at 16 PSI. IMO, that shows that the Patriots didn't alter the footballs (at least in that game) and does nothing to prove that NE did anything to alter the air pressure after the footballs were inspected by the officiating crew.

Right its a pretty straight forward thought process.

Brady complains about the balls being overinflated, Mcnally confirms that the officials inflated a few of them to 16+ psi. Jastremski relays that to Brady, Brady tells Jastremski to find him the rule. He then reads the rule and tells Jastremski to tell Mcnally to always inflate them to the minimum bound and to make sure to tell the refs exactly what the rule says and to not inflate them past 12.5 psi.

So they weren't doing it before hand, and the exchange in texts is explicitly telling them how he wants them and to make sure the officials are aware of the rule.

If I remember correctly Ted Wells bookended this text message exchange with a complete dismissal of it.

 

[JIslander]

I still openly question the logic in the Wells report including a text exchange where Brady had to play against the Jets with footballs at 16 PSI. IMO, that shows that the Patriots didn't alter the footballs (at least in that game) and does nothing to prove that NE did anything to alter the air pressure after the footballs were inspected by the officiating crew.

Right its a pretty straight forward thought process.

Brady complains about the balls being overinflated, Mcnally confirms that the officials inflated a few of them to 16+ psi. Jastremski relays that to Brady, Brady tells Jastremski to find him the rule. He then reads the rule and tells Jastremski to tell Mcnally to always inflate them to the minimum bound and to make sure to tell the refs exactly what the rule says and to not inflate them past 12.5 psi.

So they weren't doing it before hand, and the exchange in texts is explicitly telling them how he wants them and to make sure the officials are aware of the rule.

If I remember correctly Ted Wells bookended this text message exchange with a complete dismissal of it.

Gee, if only Brady came out to inform of that straightforward thought process.

The other version is...something happened that game where tweedle dee-tweedle dum couldn't get to the footballs post inspection to deflate.

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

From the Monday Morning Quarterback:

I think this is what Id do on the Tom Brady sanction if I were Roger Goodell: Id announce Im deferring all punishment until the end of the 2015 season while the air pressure in footballs pre-game, at halftime and post-game is studied in 267 regular- and post-season games. It is a fact that air pressure in footballs has never been measured at halftime and post-game, and has never been recorded before, during and after games. So, to see if the variance in pressure in the Patriots footballs from the AFC Championship Game was indeed unusual, lets have a body of work to compare them tofootballs in the heat of September and the cold of December and January. Basically, despending on which physics expert you believe, its either a stretch to think the Patriots footballs deflated as much as they did by halftime of the game against Indy Jan. 18, or a perfectly normal occurrence. This is too important, the legacy of one of the games all-time greats, to hand down discipline without being more sure than anyone could be now about Bradys guilt.

Of course this is what should have happened before any kind of action was taken at all. I also think this is why Kraft backed off. To fight the NFL's case, this is the sort of data you would need.

So we're right back to how outrageously stupid this thing was from the get-go.

Edit: One of you smart guys will have to tell me if even a single season is enough to really get a valid sample.

But how does this season long sample explain Brady's refusal to cooperate with the NFL investigation, as he is contractually obligated to do?

Or the text messages?

Such a colorful response I feel compelled to reply.

Once Chris Mortenson\ESPN and someone from the league office smeared NE (Jan 21) it was an obvious witch hunt (smears, leaks etc) and there is no way I would have given the league any personal records.

That's a sound argument, I guess. "You're trying to prove I did something wrong; I have personal records that prove I'm innocent, but I won't let you (or anyone else) see them to prove a point. Haha-I showed you!"

Umm, no, I have personal records that I want to keep personal and u have already demonstrated that u can't b trusted.

As for "txt messages", what text messages are there that indicate (never mind proove, how about just implicate) that Brady knew something illegal was being done to the ball post inspection????

What text messages are there to indicate that Brady didn't know something illegal was being done to the balls post inspection?

Haha, what txt messages are there to indicate Brady didn't rape a woman like Big ben did? None u say? Exactly

FTR, I bet a check of GBs equipment guys text messages would reveal talk of overinflating the ball (which they admitted doing) does that mean Rodgers would have to know if his equipment guys occasionally did something after the balls were inspected? No, of course it doesn't and it doesn't with brady either no matter how jealous and envious you are of him and his team.

FTR, I bet a check of Brady's text messages would reveal talk of deflating balls, regardless of how much you want to deny it.

Really? based on what? They already have all the texts between Brady\JM\ and JJ so who are you referring to? Everyone he knows?

Again, one more time: I don't claim that letting some air out of a ball after it is inspected (as is "alleged" against ne) is the same (as bad) as intentionally submitting and playing with overinflated balls as Rodgers and the packers bragged about. I only claim that both are clearly cheating and the end result is very similar if not exactly the same.

Both are not clearly cheating. In one instance, a player is altering an approved game ball, AFTER it's been approved. In another, a player is playing with an approved game ball THAT THE OFFICIALS MISTAKENLY APPROVED. In the first instance, the player cheated, in the 2nd instance, they officials made the mistake, and the player is following the rules by playing with the ball the officials tell him to play with.

You see this is the hypocrisy zone; if u can't even concede that Rodgers and the Packers admitted to cheating, the Broncos haven't won anything since they were caught cheating on the salary cap, Jerry (Mr. illegal Stickum) Rice and the 49'ers cheated during their SB wins and for Rice's entire career AND the qb for the Steelers (well before the rapist who currently is the face of the franchise) Terry Bradshaw bragged about manipulating footballs in a far worse manner than NE is accused of then you fail the test.

If you can acknowledge that all of the above is true, then you get to slime and throw stones at NE\Tom Brady, but if you can't do the former then u can't do the latter.

Suxxx I know, but that's the way the whole hate\envy\jealously\schadenfreude business works; come down off whatever high horse u think ur on and get into the slime\mud with everyone else, then u get to say whatever u want.

Hypocrisy pass\fail question #1 = So if you fill a ball with helium and the ref doesn't realize it, then according to bayhawks rules of football its not cheating, right? Insert yes or no here ___ If yes go to end and I shant taunt u again.

Hypocrisy pass\fail question #2 = If you put a metal object in your pads so u can hurt your opponent and the ref doesn't catch it then its not cheating right? Insert answer here ___ If yes go to end and I shant taunt u again.

If you if you think deceiving the ref isn't cheating and can't answer the last 2 questions honestly\correctly (IE obviously NO it is cheating) then we are done here; if you concede that deceiving the ref is still cheating (albeit a lesser offense) then maybe we can continue.



End:

 

[Bayhawks]

From the Monday Morning Quarterback:

I think this is what Id do on the Tom Brady sanction if I were Roger Goodell: Id announce Im deferring all punishment until the end of the 2015 season while the air pressure in footballs pre-game, at halftime and post-game is studied in 267 regular- and post-season games. It is a fact that air pressure in footballs has never been measured at halftime and post-game, and has never been recorded before, during and after games. So, to see if the variance in pressure in the Patriots footballs from the AFC Championship Game was indeed unusual, lets have a body of work to compare them tofootballs in the heat of September and the cold of December and January. Basically, despending on which physics expert you believe, its either a stretch to think the Patriots footballs deflated as much as they did by halftime of the game against Indy Jan. 18, or a perfectly normal occurrence. This is too important, the legacy of one of the games all-time greats, to hand down discipline without being more sure than anyone could be now about Bradys guilt.

Of course this is what should have happened before any kind of action was taken at all.

I also think this is why Kraft backed off. To fight the NFL's case, this is the sort of data you would need.

So we're right back to how outrageously stupid this thing was from the get-go.


Edit: One of you smart guys will have to tell me if even a single season is enough to really get a valid sample.

But how does this season long sample explain Brady's refusal to cooperate with the NFL investigation, as he is contractually obligated to do?

Or the text messages?

Such a colorful response I feel compelled to reply.

Once Chris Mortenson\ESPN and someone from the league office smeared NE (Jan 21) it was an obvious witch hunt (smears, leaks etc) and there is no way I would have given the league any personal records.

That's a sound argument, I guess. "You're trying to prove I did something wrong; I have personal records that prove I'm innocent, but I won't let you (or anyone else) see them to prove a point. Haha-I showed you!"

Umm, no, I have personal records that I want to keep personal and u have already demonstrated that u can't b trusted.

SEE 1 BELOW.

As for "txt messages", what text messages are there that indicate (never mind proove, how about just implicate) that Brady knew something illegal was being done to the ball post inspection????

What text messages are there to indicate that Brady didn't know something illegal was being done to the balls post inspection?

Haha, what txt messages are there to indicate Brady didn't rape a woman like Big ben did? None u say? Exactly

SEE 2 BELOW.

FTR, I bet a check of GBs equipment guys text messages would reveal talk of overinflating the ball (which they admitted doing) does that mean Rodgers would have to know if his equipment guys occasionally did something after the balls were inspected? No, of course it doesn't and it doesn't with brady either no matter how jealous and envious you are of him and his team.

FTR, I bet a check of Brady's text messages would reveal talk of deflating balls, regardless of how much you want to deny it.

Really? based on what? They already have all the texts between Brady\JM\ and JJ so who are you referring to? Everyone he knows?

SEE 3 BELOW.

Again, one more time: I don't claim that letting some air out of a ball after it is inspected (as is "alleged" against ne) is the same (as bad) as intentionally submitting and playing with overinflated balls as Rodgers and the packers bragged about. I only claim that both are clearly cheating and the end result is very similar if not exactly the same.

Both are not clearly cheating. In one instance, a player is altering an approved game ball, AFTER it's been approved. In another, a player is playing with an approved game ball THAT THE OFFICIALS MISTAKENLY APPROVED. In the first instance, the player cheated, in the 2nd instance, they officials made the mistake, and the player is following the rules by playing with the ball the officials tell him to play with.

You see this is the hypocrisy zone; if u can't even concede that Rodgers and the Packers obviously cheated, the Broncos haven't won anything since they were caught cheating on the salary cap, Jerry (Mr. illegal Stickum) Rice and the 49'ers cheated during their SB wins and for Rice's entire career AND the qb for the Steelers (well before the rapist who currently is the face of the franchise) Terry Bradshaw bragged about manipulating footballs in a far worse manner than NE is accused of then you fail the test.

SEE 4 BELOW.

What you need to acknowledge is that all of the above is true, then you get to slime and throw stones at NE\Tom Brady, but if you can't do the former then u can't do the latter.

Suxxx I know, but that's the way the whole hate\envy\jealously business works; come down off whatever high horse u think ur on and get into the slime\mud with everyone else, then u get to say whatever u want.

Hypocrisy pass\fail question #1 = So if you fill a ball with helium and the ref doesn't realize it, then according to bayhawks rules of football its not cheating, right? Insert yes or no here ___ If yes go to end and I shant taunt u again.

Hypocrisy pass\fail question #2 = If you put a metal object in your pads so u can hurt your opponent and the ref doesn't catch it then its not cheating right? Insert answer here ___ If yes go to end and I shant taunt u again.

If you if you think deceiving the ref isn't cheating and can't answer the last 2 questions honestly\correctly (IE obviously NO it is cheating) then we are done here; if you concede that deceiving the ref is still cheating (albeit a lesser offense) then maybe we can continue.



End:

1-How had Wells proven he couldn't be trusted? There was no interaction between Wells & Brady prior to this that I'm aware of. Please provide links of this prior interaction or stop making stuff up. Wells had never proven he couldn't be trusted. In fact, during the entire investigation, except for saying he wouldn't talk about it, he didn't talk about it. So, if anything, Wells had proven that he could be trusted to keep his mouth shut & not leak information.

2-Okay, if you want to bring up completely irrelevant information; with regards to Roethlisberger, it was never proven that he did anything wrong, and yet he was suspended for 6 games. When you look at it that way, Brady's 4 game suspension is completely reasonable. I will withdraw my MANY previous posts where I said the punishment was far too severe. Excellent point.

3-We don't know they have all the texts between Brady and those 2 men, what we know are their sides of any communications on their NE issued phones. Since Brady refused to cooperate by sharing the pertinent information (that he was going to be able to choose what he shared), we don't know what texts he is hiding. Again, stop making stuff up. If you somehow have copies of Brady's text records that show ALL his communications with regards to this issue, share them, otherwise don't pretend your assumptions are facts.

4-Except for Rodgers, I haven't commented on any of those other situations you noted, so stop making stuff up.

Deceiving the ref is cheating? So when Brady (or any QB) exaggerates a hit to buy a flag, they are cheating? When a player feigns injury to stop the clock/stop the hurry-up, they are cheating? When a rushing DL/LB is being blocked cleanly and tries to buy a holding call, they are cheating? Because those are all examples of trying to deceive an official, yet they wouldn't be considered cheating by a rational person. Besides that, I don't 'need your permission to say/post anything. You want to claim I'm a hypocrite, and that I'm blinded by hate/jealousy/envy, yet your are so blinded by your man-crush on Brady that you can't even admit that he screwed himself. If he had said "maybe I pressured those guys to get the balls how I like them, but I didn't know what they were doing," this would be over. If he had shared the text records (that HE SELECTED), this would be over (assuming he had nothing to hide). If he wasn't such a self-righteous, arrogant ##### when admonishing the Ravens to "study the rulebook," he wouldn't be getting the backlash he is getting. But the fact is that he screwed hiimself. If you can admit that, then maybe we can continue.



End:

 

[Jercules]

Well, I just want to say that when it's your team's turn I'll be..... on your side. Just saying. Bogus is bogus.

Maybe, but it's not like the NFL only picks on the Pats (although many NE fans in this thread seem to believe that).

My team is the Redskins & they got screwed (along with the Cowboys) during the uncapped year. $36 million of cap space taken away because they did something that wasn't even against the rules (but the NFL said "don't do that.")

Good Lord what are you smoking?

They stole a 1st round draft pick and hundreds of thousands of dollars from us because we had a guy film signals from the wrong area.

Seven years later, they say we have a 'reputation' and steal millions of dollars, another 1st (and a 4th), and four games from our GOAT QB because he might have known something about a ####### equipment violation...

 

[Bayhawks]

Well, I just want to say that when it's your team's turn I'll be..... on your side. Just saying. Bogus is bogus.

Maybe, but it's not like the NFL only picks on the Pats (although many NE fans in this thread seem to believe that).My team is the Redskins & they got screwed (along with the Cowboys) during the uncapped year. $36 million of cap space taken away because they did something that wasn't even against the rules (but the NFL said "don't do that.")

Good Lord what are you smoking?

They stole a 1st round draft pick and hundreds of thousands of dollars from us because we had a guy film signals from the wrong area.

Seven years later, they say we have a 'reputation' and steal millions of dollars, another 1st (and a 4th), and four games from our GOAT QB because he might have known something about a ####### equipment violation...

Us? You aren't part of the Pats. The NFL essentially fined the 'skins $36 million for refusing to collude with the rest of the teams. If you weren't so bat-#### blinded by your blatant homerism, you'd have realized my post was noting that the NFL has made a habit of "unfair" practices. "You" aren't special; the NFL is an equal oppprtunity screwjob organization.

 

[Jercules]

Well, I just want to say that when it's your team's turn I'll be..... on your side. Just saying. Bogus is bogus.

Maybe, but it's not like the NFL only picks on the Pats (although many NE fans in this thread seem to believe that).My team is the Redskins & they got screwed (along with the Cowboys) during the uncapped year. $36 million of cap space taken away because they did something that wasn't even against the rules (but the NFL said "don't do that.")

Good Lord what are you smoking?

They stole a 1st round draft pick and hundreds of thousands of dollars from us because we had a guy film signals from the wrong area.

Seven years later, they say we have a 'reputation' and steal millions of dollars, another 1st (and a 4th), and four games from our GOAT QB because he might have known something about a ####### equipment violation...

Us? You aren't part of the Pats. The NFL essentially fined the 'skins $36 million for refusing to collude with the rest of the teams. If you weren't so bat-#### blinded by your blatant homerism, you'd have realized my post was noting that the NFL has made a habit of "unfair" practices. "You" aren't special; the NFL is an equal oppprtunity screwjob organization.

The funny part is not what absolute BS the bolded is. (What did the Panthers and Vikings get for absolutely, positively screwing with the balls again? A curfew?)

The funny part is by making that statement, you, as one of the most hilariously butthurt and frothing haters on this thread, tacitly admit that Brady and the Patriots are getting screwed.

"He deserves it, he cheated, he's not getting screwed... but if he was getting screwed, well... it's not like you guys are special!"

 

[Run It Up]

I still openly question the logic in the Wells report including a text exchange where Brady had to play against the Jets with footballs at 16 PSI. IMO, that shows that the Patriots didn't alter the footballs (at least in that game) and does nothing to prove that NE did anything to alter the air pressure after the footballs were inspected by the officiating crew.

Right its a pretty straight forward thought process.

Brady complains about the balls being overinflated, Mcnally confirms that the officials inflated a few of them to 16+ psi. Jastremski relays that to Brady, Brady tells Jastremski to find him the rule. He then reads the rule and tells Jastremski to tell Mcnally to always inflate them to the minimum bound and to make sure to tell the refs exactly what the rule says and to not inflate them past 12.5 psi.

So they weren't doing it before hand, and the exchange in texts is explicitly telling them how he wants them and to make sure the officials are aware of the rule.

If I remember correctly Ted Wells bookended this text message exchange with a complete dismissal of it.

Gee, if only Brady came out to inform of that straightforward thought process.

The other version is...something happened that game where tweedle dee-tweedle dum couldn't get to the footballs post inspection to deflate.

This isn't my account of what happened, its in the ####### Well's report. Maybe spend a fraction of the time you do in this thread and actually inform yourself about the stuff you #### out of your mouth?

 

[Bayhawks]

Well, I just want to say that when it's your team's turn I'll be..... on your side. Just saying. Bogus is bogus.

Maybe, but it's not like the NFL only picks on the Pats (although many NE fans in this thread seem to believe that).My team is the Redskins & they got screwed (along with the Cowboys) during the uncapped year. $36 million of cap space taken away because they did something that wasn't even against the rules (but the NFL said "don't do that.")

Good Lord what are you smoking?

They stole a 1st round draft pick and hundreds of thousands of dollars from us because we had a guy film signals from the wrong area.

Seven years later, they say we have a 'reputation' and steal millions of dollars, another 1st (and a 4th), and four games from our GOAT QB because he might have known something about a ####### equipment violation...

Us? You aren't part of the Pats. The NFL essentially fined the 'skins $36 million for refusing to collude with the rest of the teams. If you weren't so bat-#### blinded by your blatant homerism, you'd have realized my post was noting that the NFL has made a habit of "unfair" practices. "You" aren't special; the NFL is an equal oppprtunity screwjob organization.

The funny part is not what absolute BS the bolded is. (What did the Panthers and Vikings get for absolutely, positively screwing with the balls again? A curfew?)

The funny part is by making that statement, you, as one of the most hilariously butthurt and frothing haters on this thread, tacitly admit that Brady and the Patriots are getting screwed.

"He deserves it, he cheated, he's not getting screwed... but if he was getting screwed, well... it's not like you guys are special!"

WTF are you babbling about? Do you even read the posts in this thread, or do you just skim them and say "this guy doesn't bow down to NE, he must be a butthurt salty hater!?"

I've said many times that the Pats/Brady are getting screwed. I've said many times that the amount of air in the football has a negligible impact on the game. I've said many times that this "scandal" (no matter what it's ultimate outcome) does not tarnish/diminish NE's SB win(s). I've said numerous times (in this & other threads) that TB is one of the top-2 QBs of all time, and this doesn't change that. I've said he's still a first-ballot HOFer.

I've also said that Brady screwed up here. Whether he knew or not what those 2 guys were doing, he made it clear to them how he liked his footballs, and after the fact, he had numerous opportunities to admit his part of the situation, take one for the team (fall on the sword, if you will) & say "it was all my fault," or claim partial blame. He chose, however, to say "I don't know anything," he claimed he didn't know those guys, he allowed them to get suspended without saying a word. When giving a chance to clear his name (sharing the text records), he chose not to do so. As a result, he gave Wells/the NFL the opportunity to say he was probably generally aware of a very minor rules infraction AND refused to cooperate. If he had handled it differently, the NFL wouldn't have had the grounds to try to levy such a stiff penalty.

Just because I'm not a Pats homer and I can acknowledge that the Pats aren't completely innocent patsies who were picked on by the big bad NFL in this situation doesn't make me a "butthurt" salty hater; it just means I'm not blinded by my red and blue fan goggles & can see the whole situation.

 

[JIslander]

I still openly question the logic in the Wells report including a text exchange where Brady had to play against the Jets with footballs at 16 PSI. IMO, that shows that the Patriots didn't alter the footballs (at least in that game) and does nothing to prove that NE did anything to alter the air pressure after the footballs were inspected by the officiating crew.

Right its a pretty straight forward thought process.

Brady complains about the balls being overinflated, Mcnally confirms that the officials inflated a few of them to 16+ psi. Jastremski relays that to Brady, Brady tells Jastremski to find him the rule. He then reads the rule and tells Jastremski to tell Mcnally to always inflate them to the minimum bound and to make sure to tell the refs exactly what the rule says and to not inflate them past 12.5 psi.

So they weren't doing it before hand, and the exchange in texts is explicitly telling them how he wants them and to make sure the officials are aware of the rule.

If I remember correctly Ted Wells bookended this text message exchange with a complete dismissal of it.

Gee, if only Brady came out to inform of that straightforward thought process.

The other version is...something happened that game where tweedle dee-tweedle dum couldn't get to the footballs post inspection to deflate.

This isn't my account of what happened, its in the ####### Well's report. Maybe spend a fraction of the time you do in this thread and actually inform yourself about the stuff you #### out of your mouth?

Apparently, the Wells report is like the Bible; you can choose what you want to believe and interpret to suit your cause. oh, and where's that summary of who's spending too much time here?

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

From the Monday Morning Quarterback:

I think this is what Id do on the Tom Brady sanction if I were Roger Goodell: Id announce Im deferring all punishment until the end of the 2015 season while the air pressure in footballs pre-game, at halftime and post-game is studied in 267 regular- and post-season games. It is a fact that air pressure in footballs has never been measured at halftime and post-game, and has never been recorded before, during and after games. So, to see if the variance in pressure in the Patriots footballs from the AFC Championship Game was indeed unusual, lets have a body of work to compare them tofootballs in the heat of September and the cold of December and January. Basically, despending on which physics expert you believe, its either a stretch to think the Patriots footballs deflated as much as they did by halftime of the game against Indy Jan. 18, or a perfectly normal occurrence. This is too important, the legacy of one of the games all-time greats, to hand down discipline without being more sure than anyone could be now about Bradys guilt.

Of course this is what should have happened before any kind of action was taken at all. I also think this is why Kraft backed off. To fight the NFL's case, this is the sort of data you would need.

So we're right back to how outrageously stupid this thing was from the get-go.

Edit: One of you smart guys will have to tell me if even a single season is enough to really get a valid sample.

But how does this season long sample explain Brady's refusal to cooperate with the NFL investigation, as he is contractually obligated to do?

Or the text messages?

Such a colorful response I feel compelled to reply.

Once Chris Mortenson\ESPN and someone from the league office smeared NE (Jan 21) it was an obvious witch hunt (smears, leaks etc) and there is no way I would have given the league any personal records.

That's a sound argument, I guess. "You're trying to prove I did something wrong; I have personal records that prove I'm innocent, but I won't let you (or anyone else) see them to prove a point. Haha-I showed you!"

Umm, no, I have personal records that I want to keep personal and u have already demonstrated that u can't b trusted.

SEE 1 BELOW.

As for "txt messages", what text messages are there that indicate (never mind proove, how about just implicate) that Brady knew something illegal was being done to the ball post inspection????

What text messages are there to indicate that Brady didn't know something illegal was being done to the balls post inspection?

Haha, what txt messages are there to indicate Brady didn't rape a woman like Big ben did? None u say? Exactly

SEE 2 BELOW.

FTR, I bet a check of GBs equipment guys text messages would reveal talk of overinflating the ball (which they admitted doing) does that mean Rodgers would have to know if his equipment guys occasionally did something after the balls were inspected? No, of course it doesn't and it doesn't with brady either no matter how jealous and envious you are of him and his team.

FTR, I bet a check of Brady's text messages would reveal talk of deflating balls, regardless of how much you want to deny it.

Really? based on what? They already have all the texts between Brady\JM\ and JJ so who are you referring to? Everyone he knows?

SEE 3 BELOW.

Again, one more time: I don't claim that letting some air out of a ball after it is inspected (as is "alleged" against ne) is the same (as bad) as intentionally submitting and playing with overinflated balls as Rodgers and the packers bragged about. I only claim that both are clearly cheating and the end result is very similar if not exactly the same.

Both are not clearly cheating. In one instance, a player is altering an approved game ball, AFTER it's been approved. In another, a player is playing with an approved game ball THAT THE OFFICIALS MISTAKENLY APPROVED. In the first instance, the player cheated, in the 2nd instance, they officials made the mistake, and the player is following the rules by playing with the ball the officials tell him to play with.

You see this is the hypocrisy zone; if u can't even concede that Rodgers and the Packers obviously cheated, the Broncos haven't won anything since they were caught cheating on the salary cap, Jerry (Mr. illegal Stickum) Rice and the 49'ers cheated during their SB wins and for Rice's entire career AND the qb for the Steelers (well before the rapist who currently is the face of the franchise) Terry Bradshaw bragged about manipulating footballs in a far worse manner than NE is accused of then you fail the test.

SEE 4 BELOW.

What you need to acknowledge is that all of the above is true, then you get to slime and throw stones at NE\Tom Brady, but if you can't do the former then u can't do the latter.

Suxxx I know, but that's the way the whole hate\envy\jealously business works; come down off whatever high horse u think ur on and get into the slime\mud with everyone else, then u get to say whatever u want.

Hypocrisy pass\fail question #1 = So if you fill a ball with helium and the ref doesn't realize it, then according to bayhawks rules of football its not cheating, right? Insert yes or no here ___ If yes go to end and I shant taunt u again.

Hypocrisy pass\fail question #2 = If you put a metal object in your pads so u can hurt your opponent and the ref doesn't catch it then its not cheating right? Insert answer here ___ If yes go to end and I shant taunt u again.

If you if you think deceiving the ref isn't cheating and can't answer the last 2 questions honestly\correctly (IE obviously NO it is cheating) then we are done here; if you concede that deceiving the ref is still cheating (albeit a lesser offense) then maybe we can continue.



End:

1-How had Wells proven he couldn't be trusted? There was no interaction between Wells & Brady prior to this that I'm aware of. Please provide links of this prior interaction or stop making stuff up. Wells had never proven he couldn't be trusted. In fact, during the entire investigation, except for saying he wouldn't talk about it, he didn't talk about it. So, if anything, Wells had proven that he could be trusted to keep his mouth shut & not leak information.

2-Okay, if you want to bring up completely irrelevant information; with regards to Roethlisberger, it was never proven that he did anything wrong, and yet he was suspended for 6 games. When you look at it that way, Brady's 4 game suspension is completely reasonable. I will withdraw my MANY previous posts where I said the punishment was far too severe. Excellent point.

3-We don't know they have all the texts between Brady and those 2 men, what we know are their sides of any communications on their NE issued phones. Since Brady refused to cooperate by sharing the pertinent information (that he was going to be able to choose what he shared), we don't know what texts he is hiding. Again, stop making stuff up. If you somehow have copies of Brady's text records that show ALL his communications with regards to this issue, share them, otherwise don't pretend your assumptions are facts.

4-Except for Rodgers, I haven't commented on any of those other situations you noted, so stop making stuff up.

Deceiving the ref is cheating? So when Brady (or any QB) exaggerates a hit to buy a flag, they are cheating? When a player feigns injury to stop the clock/stop the hurry-up, they are cheating? When a rushing DL/LB is being blocked cleanly and tries to buy a holding call, they are cheating? Because those are all examples of trying to deceive an official, yet they wouldn't be considered cheating by a rational person. Besides that, I don't 'need your permission to say/post anything. You want to claim I'm a hypocrite, and that I'm blinded by hate/jealousy/envy, yet your are so blinded by your man-crush on Brady that you can't even admit that he screwed himself. If he had said "maybe I pressured those guys to get the balls how I like them, but I didn't know what they were doing," this would be over. If he had shared the text records (that HE SELECTED), this would be over (assuming he had nothing to hide). If he wasn't such a self-righteous, arrogant ##### when admonishing the Ravens to "study the rulebook," he wouldn't be getting the backlash he is getting. But the fact is that he screwed hiimself. If you can admit that, then maybe we can continue.



End:

1. The source of the ESPN Jan 21 was the league, the league is paying Wells; ie Wells=League (it really isn't that hard)

2. Rothelsberger rapes a woman and the punishment for him and brady are the same; imho having the same punishment for a rapist and "alleged ball under inflation" is worth noting.

3. Again, what part of "Wells already has all the phone records from those 2 guys" do you not understand? That's a fact.

4. I don't think I ever claimed u commented on any of that and don't really care. I brought those up in general to throw in the face of all the hypocrite antagonists and their faux outrage at Brady; these are the same posters who typically don't have any problem with the steelers\packers\niners\broncos etc cheating.

I asked you 2 direct yes or no questions and if you can't bring yourself to answer them we are done here.

Last chance on the Hypocrisy pass\fail test

Question #1 = If you fill a ball with helium and the ref doesn't realize it, is it still cheating? Insert yes or no here ___ If no go to end and I shant taunt u again.

Question #2 = If you put a metal object in your pads so u can hurt your opponent and the ref doesn't catch it, is it still cheating? Insert answer here ___ If no go to end and I shant taunt u again.

END:

 

[DropKick]

Which relatively successful QB shor nuff recently said the following?

“‘I like to push the limit to how much air we can put in the football, even go over what they allow you to do and see if the officials take air out of it,'”

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/20/aaron-rodgers-likes-his-footballs-overinflated/

Did he alter them after inspection?

Been over this...many times in this thread.

Or did you think you were the first to bring Rodgers' comments up in a pitiful attempt to defend Tom Brady.

We don't know if the packers altered the balls after the fact, though I wonder what would be found if the nfl went back a year and combed thru the Packers txt messages. I bet it is more probable than not some interesting inflate messages would be found.

People can argue that Rodgers and the packers cheating wasn't as bad as NEs alleged offense (I agree), but people can't argue it wasn't cheating; it is. There is nothing ambiguous about "even go over what they allow you to do and see if the officials take air out of it, it is cheating. They obviously played some games with over inflated balls and just because the ref missed it doesn't mean it wasn't cheating it was. If they put helium in the ball and the refs missed it, would that not be cheating? That Rodgers and the Packers cheated isn't open to debate, they admitted it. The only thing open to debate is the level of cheating in comparison to the allegations against Brady and NE.

Packer fans may not like hearing their beloved Rodgers is a cheater but we know for a fact he is since he bragged about it. The biggest difference imho is Rodgers and the packers haven't been nearly as successful as NE has over the last 15 years so no one cares. Several posters are here primarily because they are obsessively jealous of NEs success and that's fine, but what is good for the goose is good for the gander. I'm using facts to call out the jealous hypocrites for what they are and if there is anything factually incorrect with what I have said please let me know what it is.

That is so not the biggest difference. You gotta remove the blinders. One player presented the refs with the balls the way he wanted them and hoped it would go unnoticed. The other player presented the balls the way they were supposed to be, then allegedly had them altered following the inspection. If the allegations are true, that is clearly the biggest difference, and their records over the past 15 years are 100% irrelevant in comparison.

If Brady came out and said "I actually like a ball inflated more than the league allows and we noticed the refs weren't checking them religiously so we experimented a little more each week and found we could get a 14 PSI ball into the game", I think the anti-NE crowd would be up in arms about bending the rules, etc.

And I think that if Brady said, "We have guys on the sideline whose only jobs are to deflate the footballs to the pressure I like after they're inspected and we pay them off by having our team physicians slip them oxy" the Patriot lovers wouldn't see anything wrong with that. Is my straw man as good as yours?

No, it's actually idiotic.

The situation I presented was not far from what Rodgers said they did. I personally don't have a problem with it. My point was that some will interpret the same thing different ways depending on the parties involved. Thanks for proving my point.

Of course you don't have a problem with it. What Rogers did was 1/10th as bad as what Brady allegedly did. If you had a problem with what Rogers did then you would have to be on the side that Brady's reputation is forever tarnished.

I'm not defending Brady. I'm discussing the Rodgers interview. You guys assume that having an opinion on one implies an opinion on the other. I'll try to discuss this as clearly as possible. My two real targets are the officials and fan bias.

Do I think tampering with the ball occurred in NE? Yes. There are lots of interesting angles regarding the PSI measurements (repeatability, physics, deltas in guages, etc.) but the text messages are your smoking gun.

Do I think the officials actually measure the balls religiously? No. The reports of 16 PSI balls is bothersome. As is Rodgers' assertion that they over inflate the ball and see "IF" the official takes the air out. I can see the officials doing a quick inspection by hand without actually using a guage or even adding air and not doing another measurement. This is my anti-authority side showing but I've had my share of arrogant officials. I'd like to think the NFL guys are much more professional than the caliber I've seen but consider we also had an NFL employee stealing balls at this same game.

Do I think a Packer fan (I'll use an extreme here) has a different reaction to Rodger's claims that they would if the situation were reversed and it were Brady making the exact same statements. Yes. You see this routinely for anything ranging from player conduct to a controversial pass interference play.

Do I think Rodgers' actions are on par with Brady's? Depends... It's clear that the means in Brady's case is more aggressive, bold, brazen, etc. but the ends in both situations is the same; to get an out of specification ball into the game. Perhaps their actions were as as innocent as inflating the ball to the limit or just above in an attempt to influence the final pressure (~13.5). Or, if the officials didn't actually measure the balls routinely, it could have been a calculated effort to determine how high they could go without detection. Do you feel differently with a subtle change in explanation? If you're knowingly playing with an over-inflated ball, despite the referee's negligence, you're still breaking a rule. I think the interpretation here actually depends on your personal morals.

I tend to focus on different things than the typical NFL fan. The psychology here is intriguing. Rodgers believes there is no advantage to an over-inflated ball and he thinks the rule should be changed to eliminate the upper limit. He may be right but, in his mind, he has justified playing with such a ball. Brady probably thinks the same way... Barry Bonds once asked the rhetorical question "What is cheating"? He wasn't the type to expand on this but I suspect the answer is complicated, cynical and can only be answered by a professional athlete with their unique perspective on the business and the game. It was clear, however, that he felt his actions were justified.

 

[Bayhawks]

From the Monday Morning Quarterback:

I think this is what Id do on the Tom Brady sanction if I were Roger Goodell: Id announce Im deferring all punishment until the end of the 2015 season while the air pressure in footballs pre-game, at halftime and post-game is studied in 267 regular- and post-season games. It is a fact that air pressure in footballs has never been measured at halftime and post-game, and has never been recorded before, during and after games. So, to see if the variance in pressure in the Patriots footballs from the AFC Championship Game was indeed unusual, lets have a body of work to compare them tofootballs in the heat of September and the cold of December and January. Basically, despending on which physics expert you believe, its either a stretch to think the Patriots footballs deflated as much as they did by halftime of the game against Indy Jan. 18, or a perfectly normal occurrence. This is too important, the legacy of one of the games all-time greats, to hand down discipline without being more sure than anyone could be now about Bradys guilt.

Of course this is what should have happened before any kind of action was taken at all. I also think this is why Kraft backed off. To fight the NFL's case, this is the sort of data you would need.

So we're right back to how outrageously stupid this thing was from the get-go.

Edit: One of you smart guys will have to tell me if even a single season is enough to really get a valid sample.

But how does this season long sample explain Brady's refusal to cooperate with the NFL investigation, as he is contractually obligated to do?

Or the text messages?

Such a colorful response I feel compelled to reply.Once Chris Mortenson\ESPN and someone from the league office smeared NE (Jan 21) it was an obvious witch hunt (smears, leaks etc) and there is no way I would have given the league any personal records.

That's a sound argument, I guess. "You're trying to prove I did something wrong; I have personal records that prove I'm innocent, but I won't let you (or anyone else) see them to prove a point. Haha-I showed you!"

Umm, no, I have personal records that I want to keep personal and u have already demonstrated that u can't b trusted.

SEE 1 BELOW.

As for "txt messages", what text messages are there that indicate (never mind proove, how about just implicate) that Brady knew something illegal was being done to the ball post inspection????

What text messages are there to indicate that Brady didn't know something illegal was being done to the balls post inspection?

Haha, what txt messages are there to indicate Brady didn't rape a woman like Big ben did? None u say? Exactly

SEE 2 BELOW.

FTR, I bet a check of GBs equipment guys text messages would reveal talk of overinflating the ball (which they admitted doing) does that mean Rodgers would have to know if his equipment guys occasionally did something after the balls were inspected? No, of course it doesn't and it doesn't with brady either no matter how jealous and envious you are of him and his team.

FTR, I bet a check of Brady's text messages would reveal talk of deflating balls, regardless of how much you want to deny it.

Really? based on what? They already have all the texts between Brady\JM\ and JJ so who are you referring to? Everyone he knows?

SEE 3 BELOW.

Again, one more time: I don't claim that letting some air out of a ball after it is inspected (as is "alleged" against ne) is the same (as bad) as intentionally submitting and playing with overinflated balls as Rodgers and the packers bragged about. I only claim that both are clearly cheating and the end result is very similar if not exactly the same.

Both are not clearly cheating. In one instance, a player is altering an approved game ball, AFTER it's been approved. In another, a player is playing with an approved game ball THAT THE OFFICIALS MISTAKENLY APPROVED. In the first instance, the player cheated, in the 2nd instance, they officials made the mistake, and the player is following the rules by playing with the ball the officials tell him to play with.

You see this is the hypocrisy zone; if u can't even concede that Rodgers and the Packers obviously cheated, the Broncos haven't won anything since they were caught cheating on the salary cap, Jerry (Mr. illegal Stickum) Rice and the 49'ers cheated during their SB wins and for Rice's entire career AND the qb for the Steelers (well before the rapist who currently is the face of the franchise) Terry Bradshaw bragged about manipulating footballs in a far worse manner than NE is accused of then you fail the test.

SEE 4 BELOW.

What you need to acknowledge is that all of the above is true, then you get to slime and throw stones at NE\Tom Brady, but if you can't do the former then u can't do the latter.

Suxxx I know, but that's the way the whole hate\envy\jealously business works; come down off whatever high horse u think ur on and get into the slime\mud with everyone else, then u get to say whatever u want.

Hypocrisy pass\fail question #1 = So if you fill a ball with helium and the ref doesn't realize it, then according to bayhawks rules of football its not cheating, right? Insert yes or no here ___ If yes go to end and I shant taunt u again.

Hypocrisy pass\fail question #2 = If you put a metal object in your pads so u can hurt your opponent and the ref doesn't catch it then its not cheating right? Insert answer here ___ If yes go to end and I shant taunt u again.

If you if you think deceiving the ref isn't cheating and can't answer the last 2 questions honestly\correctly (IE obviously NO it is cheating) then we are done here; if you concede that deceiving the ref is still cheating (albeit a lesser offense) then maybe we can continue.



End:

1-How had Wells proven he couldn't be trusted? There was no interaction between Wells & Brady prior to this that I'm aware of. Please provide links of this prior interaction or stop making stuff up. Wells had never proven he couldn't be trusted. In fact, during the entire investigation, except for saying he wouldn't talk about it, he didn't talk about it. So, if anything, Wells had proven that he could be trusted to keep his mouth shut & not leak information.2-Okay, if you want to bring up completely irrelevant information; with regards to Roethlisberger, it was never proven that he did anything wrong, and yet he was suspended for 6 games. When you look at it that way, Brady's 4 game suspension is completely reasonable. I will withdraw my MANY previous posts where I said the punishment was far too severe. Excellent point.

3-We don't know they have all the texts between Brady and those 2 men, what we know are their sides of any communications on their NE issued phones. Since Brady refused to cooperate by sharing the pertinent information (that he was going to be able to choose what he shared), we don't know what texts he is hiding. Again, stop making stuff up. If you somehow have copies of Brady's text records that show ALL his communications with regards to this issue, share them, otherwise don't pretend your assumptions are facts.

4-Except for Rodgers, I haven't commented on any of those other situations you noted, so stop making stuff up.

Deceiving the ref is cheating? So when Brady (or any QB) exaggerates a hit to buy a flag, they are cheating? When a player feigns injury to stop the clock/stop the hurry-up, they are cheating? When a rushing DL/LB is being blocked cleanly and tries to buy a holding call, they are cheating? Because those are all examples of trying to deceive an official, yet they wouldn't be considered cheating by a rational person. Besides that, I don't 'need your permission to say/post anything. You want to claim I'm a hypocrite, and that I'm blinded by hate/jealousy/envy, yet your are so blinded by your man-crush on Brady that you can't even admit that he screwed himself. If he had said "maybe I pressured those guys to get the balls how I like them, but I didn't know what they were doing," this would be over. If he had shared the text records (that HE SELECTED), this would be over (assuming he had nothing to hide). If he wasn't such a self-righteous, arrogant ##### when admonishing the Ravens to "study the rulebook," he wouldn't be getting the backlash he is getting. But the fact is that he screwed hiimself. If you can admit that, then maybe we can continue.



End:

1. The source of the ESPN Jan 21 was the league, the league is paying Wells; ie Wells=League (it really isn't that hard)

2. Rothelsberger rapes a woman and the punishment for him and brady are the same; imho having the same punishment for a rapist and "alleged ball under inflation" is worth noting.

3. Again, what part of "Wells already has all the phone records from those 2 guys" do you not understand? That's a fact.

4. I don't think I ever claimed u commented on any of that and don't really care. I brought those up in general to throw in the face of all the hypocrite antagonists and their faux outrage at Brady; these are the same posters who typically don't have any problem with the steelers\packers\niners\broncos etc cheating.

I asked you 2 direct yes or no questions and if you can't bring yourself to answer them we are done here.

Last chance on the Hypocrisy pass\fail test

Question #1 = If you fill a ball with helium and the ref doesn't realize it, is it still cheating? Insert yes or no here ___ If no go to end and I shant taunt u again.

Question #2 = If you put a metal object in your pads so u can hurt your opponent and the ref doesn't catch it, is it still cheating? Insert answer here ___ If no go to end and I shant taunt u again.

END:

1-Wells never leaked anything; its not that hard. Provide some link to a Wells leak, or stop making stuff up. 2-There was never any proof Roethlisberger did anything; no charges were even filed. He was suspended for violating the personal conduct policy Get your facts straight, especially if you are going to try to introduce competely unrelated information. You look stupid either way, but at least if you have your facts straight, you look slightly less stupid.

3-What part of we aren't talking about those 2 guys, we are talking about Brady don't you understand? He is obligated by the CBA to cooperate with NFL investigations, not when he feels like it.

4-You said if I can't admit those teams cheated, blah, blah, blah. Another attempt to introduce extraneous information in an effort to hide the fact that you are posting nonsense and either aren't very smart, or just don't understand the situation.

We can be done here; your blatant homerism and/or low intelligence prevent you from being part of a rational discussion.

 

[BoltNlava]

geez..after all this ...please let the announcement be sudden...like 2mro. PLEASE...then the real remnant tearing will be real(ish)

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

From the Monday Morning Quarterback:

I think this is what Id do on the Tom Brady sanction if I were Roger Goodell: Id announce Im deferring all punishment until the end of the 2015 season while the air pressure in footballs pre-game, at halftime and post-game is studied in 267 regular- and post-season games. It is a fact that air pressure in footballs has never been measured at halftime and post-game, and has never been recorded before, during and after games. So, to see if the variance in pressure in the Patriots footballs from the AFC Championship Game was indeed unusual, lets have a body of work to compare them tofootballs in the heat of September and the cold of December and January. Basically, despending on which physics expert you believe, its either a stretch to think the Patriots footballs deflated as much as they did by halftime of the game against Indy Jan. 18, or a perfectly normal occurrence. This is too important, the legacy of one of the games all-time greats, to hand down discipline without being more sure than anyone could be now about Bradys guilt.

Of course this is what should have happened before any kind of action was taken at all. I also think this is why Kraft backed off. To fight the NFL's case, this is the sort of data you would need.

So we're right back to how outrageously stupid this thing was from the get-go.

Edit: One of you smart guys will have to tell me if even a single season is enough to really get a valid sample.

But how does this season long sample explain Brady's refusal to cooperate with the NFL investigation, as he is contractually obligated to do?

Or the text messages?

Such a colorful response I feel compelled to reply.Once Chris Mortenson\ESPN and someone from the league office smeared NE (Jan 21) it was an obvious witch hunt (smears, leaks etc) and there is no way I would have given the league any personal records.

That's a sound argument, I guess. "You're trying to prove I did something wrong; I have personal records that prove I'm innocent, but I won't let you (or anyone else) see them to prove a point. Haha-I showed you!"

Umm, no, I have personal records that I want to keep personal and u have already demonstrated that u can't b trusted.

SEE 1 BELOW.

As for "txt messages", what text messages are there that indicate (never mind proove, how about just implicate) that Brady knew something illegal was being done to the ball post inspection????

What text messages are there to indicate that Brady didn't know something illegal was being done to the balls post inspection?

Haha, what txt messages are there to indicate Brady didn't rape a woman like Big ben did? None u say? Exactly

SEE 2 BELOW.

FTR, I bet a check of GBs equipment guys text messages would reveal talk of overinflating the ball (which they admitted doing) does that mean Rodgers would have to know if his equipment guys occasionally did something after the balls were inspected? No, of course it doesn't and it doesn't with brady either no matter how jealous and envious you are of him and his team.

FTR, I bet a check of Brady's text messages would reveal talk of deflating balls, regardless of how much you want to deny it.

Really? based on what? They already have all the texts between Brady\JM\ and JJ so who are you referring to? Everyone he knows?

SEE 3 BELOW.

Again, one more time: I don't claim that letting some air out of a ball after it is inspected (as is "alleged" against ne) is the same (as bad) as intentionally submitting and playing with overinflated balls as Rodgers and the packers bragged about. I only claim that both are clearly cheating and the end result is very similar if not exactly the same.

Both are not clearly cheating. In one instance, a player is altering an approved game ball, AFTER it's been approved. In another, a player is playing with an approved game ball THAT THE OFFICIALS MISTAKENLY APPROVED. In the first instance, the player cheated, in the 2nd instance, they officials made the mistake, and the player is following the rules by playing with the ball the officials tell him to play with.

You see this is the hypocrisy zone; if u can't even concede that Rodgers and the Packers obviously cheated, the Broncos haven't won anything since they were caught cheating on the salary cap, Jerry (Mr. illegal Stickum) Rice and the 49'ers cheated during their SB wins and for Rice's entire career AND the qb for the Steelers (well before the rapist who currently is the face of the franchise) Terry Bradshaw bragged about manipulating footballs in a far worse manner than NE is accused of then you fail the test.

SEE 4 BELOW.

What you need to acknowledge is that all of the above is true, then you get to slime and throw stones at NE\Tom Brady, but if you can't do the former then u can't do the latter.

Suxxx I know, but that's the way the whole hate\envy\jealously business works; come down off whatever high horse u think ur on and get into the slime\mud with everyone else, then u get to say whatever u want.

Hypocrisy pass\fail question #1 = So if you fill a ball with helium and the ref doesn't realize it, then according to bayhawks rules of football its not cheating, right? Insert yes or no here ___ If yes go to end and I shant taunt u again.

Hypocrisy pass\fail question #2 = If you put a metal object in your pads so u can hurt your opponent and the ref doesn't catch it then its not cheating right? Insert answer here ___ If yes go to end and I shant taunt u again.

If you if you think deceiving the ref isn't cheating and can't answer the last 2 questions honestly\correctly (IE obviously NO it is cheating) then we are done here; if you concede that deceiving the ref is still cheating (albeit a lesser offense) then maybe we can continue.



End:

1-How had Wells proven he couldn't be trusted? There was no interaction between Wells & Brady prior to this that I'm aware of. Please provide links of this prior interaction or stop making stuff up. Wells had never proven he couldn't be trusted. In fact, during the entire investigation, except for saying he wouldn't talk about it, he didn't talk about it. So, if anything, Wells had proven that he could be trusted to keep his mouth shut & not leak information.2-Okay, if you want to bring up completely irrelevant information; with regards to Roethlisberger, it was never proven that he did anything wrong, and yet he was suspended for 6 games. When you look at it that way, Brady's 4 game suspension is completely reasonable. I will withdraw my MANY previous posts where I said the punishment was far too severe. Excellent point.

3-We don't know they have all the texts between Brady and those 2 men, what we know are their sides of any communications on their NE issued phones. Since Brady refused to cooperate by sharing the pertinent information (that he was going to be able to choose what he shared), we don't know what texts he is hiding. Again, stop making stuff up. If you somehow have copies of Brady's text records that show ALL his communications with regards to this issue, share them, otherwise don't pretend your assumptions are facts.

4-Except for Rodgers, I haven't commented on any of those other situations you noted, so stop making stuff up.

Deceiving the ref is cheating? So when Brady (or any QB) exaggerates a hit to buy a flag, they are cheating? When a player feigns injury to stop the clock/stop the hurry-up, they are cheating? When a rushing DL/LB is being blocked cleanly and tries to buy a holding call, they are cheating? Because those are all examples of trying to deceive an official, yet they wouldn't be considered cheating by a rational person. Besides that, I don't 'need your permission to say/post anything. You want to claim I'm a hypocrite, and that I'm blinded by hate/jealousy/envy, yet your are so blinded by your man-crush on Brady that you can't even admit that he screwed himself. If he had said "maybe I pressured those guys to get the balls how I like them, but I didn't know what they were doing," this would be over. If he had shared the text records (that HE SELECTED), this would be over (assuming he had nothing to hide). If he wasn't such a self-righteous, arrogant ##### when admonishing the Ravens to "study the rulebook," he wouldn't be getting the backlash he is getting. But the fact is that he screwed hiimself. If you can admit that, then maybe we can continue.



End:

1. The source of the ESPN Jan 21 was the league, the league is paying Wells; ie Wells=League (it really isn't that hard)

2. Rothelsberger rapes a woman and the punishment for him and brady are the same; imho having the same punishment for a rapist and "alleged ball under inflation" is worth noting.

3. Again, what part of "Wells already has all the phone records from those 2 guys" do you not understand? That's a fact.

4. I don't think I ever claimed u commented on any of that and don't really care. I brought those up in general to throw in the face of all the hypocrite antagonists and their faux outrage at Brady; these are the same posters who typically don't have any problem with the steelers\packers\niners\broncos etc cheating.

I asked you 2 direct yes or no questions and if you can't bring yourself to answer them we are done here.

Last chance on the Hypocrisy pass\fail test

Question #1 = If you fill a ball with helium and the ref doesn't realize it, is it still cheating? Insert yes or no here ___ If no go to end and I shant taunt u again.

Question #2 = If you put a metal object in your pads so u can hurt your opponent and the ref doesn't catch it, is it still cheating? Insert answer here ___ If no go to end and I shant taunt u again.

END:

1-Wells never leaked anything; its not that hard. Provide some link to a Wells leak, or stop making stuff up.2-There was never any proof Roethlisberger did anything; no charges were even filed. He was suspended for violating the personal conduct policy Get your facts straight, especially if you are going to try to introduce competely unrelated information. You look stupid either way, but at least if you have your facts straight, you look slightly less stupid.

3-What part of we aren't talking about those 2 guys, we are talking about Brady don't you understand? He is obligated by the CBA to cooperate with NFL investigations, not when he feels like it.

4-You said if I can't admit those teams cheated, blah, blah, blah. Another attempt to introduce extraneous information in an effort to hide the fact that you are posting nonsense and either aren't very smart, or just don't understand the situation.

We can be done here; your blatant homerism and/or low intelligence prevent you from being part of a rational discussion.

You can't\won't answer 2 straightforward questions and now you've resorted to personal attacks; yes, you and I are done here.

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

Which relatively successful QB shor nuff recently said the following?

“‘I like to push the limit to how much air we can put in the football, even go over what they allow you to do and see if the officials take air out of it,'”

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/20/aaron-rodgers-likes-his-footballs-overinflated/

Did he alter them after inspection?

Been over this...many times in this thread.

Or did you think you were the first to bring Rodgers' comments up in a pitiful attempt to defend Tom Brady.

We don't know if the packers altered the balls after the fact, though I wonder what would be found if the nfl went back a year and combed thru the Packers txt messages. I bet it is more probable than not some interesting inflate messages would be found.

People can argue that Rodgers and the packers cheating wasn't as bad as NEs alleged offense (I agree), but people can't argue it wasn't cheating; it is. There is nothing ambiguous about "even go over what they allow you to do and see if the officials take air out of it, it is cheating. They obviously played some games with over inflated balls and just because the ref missed it doesn't mean it wasn't cheating it was. If they put helium in the ball and the refs missed it, would that not be cheating? That Rodgers and the Packers cheated isn't open to debate, they admitted it. The only thing open to debate is the level of cheating in comparison to the allegations against Brady and NE.

Packer fans may not like hearing their beloved Rodgers is a cheater but we know for a fact he is since he bragged about it. The biggest difference imho is Rodgers and the packers haven't been nearly as successful as NE has over the last 15 years so no one cares. Several posters are here primarily because they are obsessively jealous of NEs success and that's fine, but what is good for the goose is good for the gander. I'm using facts to call out the jealous hypocrites for what they are and if there is anything factually incorrect with what I have said please let me know what it is.

That is so not the biggest difference. You gotta remove the blinders. One player presented the refs with the balls the way he wanted them and hoped it would go unnoticed. The other player presented the balls the way they were supposed to be, then allegedly had them altered following the inspection. If the allegations are true, that is clearly the biggest difference, and their records over the past 15 years are 100% irrelevant in comparison.

If Brady came out and said "I actually like a ball inflated more than the league allows and we noticed the refs weren't checking them religiously so we experimented a little more each week and found we could get a 14 PSI ball into the game", I think the anti-NE crowd would be up in arms about bending the rules, etc.

And I think that if Brady said, "We have guys on the sideline whose only jobs are to deflate the footballs to the pressure I like after they're inspected and we pay them off by having our team physicians slip them oxy" the Patriot lovers wouldn't see anything wrong with that. Is my straw man as good as yours?

No, it's actually idiotic.

The situation I presented was not far from what Rodgers said they did. I personally don't have a problem with it. My point was that some will interpret the same thing different ways depending on the parties involved. Thanks for proving my point.

Of course you don't have a problem with it. What Rogers did was 1/10th as bad as what Brady allegedly did. If you had a problem with what Rogers did then you would have to be on the side that Brady's reputation is forever tarnished.

I'm not defending Brady. I'm discussing the Rodgers interview. You guys assume that having an opinion on one implies an opinion on the other. I'll try to discuss this as clearly as possible. My two real targets are the officials and fan bias.

Do I think tampering with the ball occurred in NE? Yes. There are lots of interesting angles regarding the PSI measurements (repeatability, physics, deltas in guages, etc.) but the text messages are your smoking gun.

Do I think the officials actually measure the balls religiously? No. The reports of 16 PSI balls is bothersome. As is Rodgers' assertion that they over inflate the ball and see "IF" the official takes the air out. I can see the officials doing a quick inspection by hand without actually using a guage or even adding air and not doing another measurement. This is my anti-authority side showing but I've had my share of arrogant officials. I'd like to think the NFL guys are much more professional than the caliber I've seen but consider we also had an NFL employee stealing balls at this same game.

Do I think a Packer fan (I'll use an extreme here) has a different reaction to Rodger's claims that they would if the situation were reversed and it were Brady making the exact same statements. Yes. You see this routinely for anything ranging from player conduct to a controversial pass interference play.

Do I think Rodgers' actions are on par with Brady's? Depends... It's clear that the means in Brady's case is more aggressive, bold, brazen, etc. but the ends in both situations is the same; to get an out of specification ball into the game. Perhaps their actions were as as innocent as inflating the ball to the limit or just above in an attempt to influence the final pressure (~13.5). Or, if the officials didn't actually measure the balls routinely, it could have been a calculated effort to determine how high they could go without detection. Do you feel differently with a subtle change in explanation? If you're knowingly playing with an over-inflated ball, despite the referee's negligence, you're still breaking a rule. I think the interpretation here actually depends on your personal morals.

I tend to focus on different things than the typical NFL fan. The psychology here is intriguing. Rodgers believes there is no advantage to an over-inflated ball and he thinks the rule should be changed to eliminate the upper limit. He may be right but, in his mind, he has justified playing with such a ball. Brady probably thinks the same way... Barry Bonds once asked the rhetorical question "What is cheating"? He wasn't the type to expand on this but I suspect the answer is complicated, cynical and can only be answered by a professional athlete with their unique perspective on the business and the game. It was clear, however, that he felt his actions were justified.

Good reasonable post, its nice to see someone post who isn't an obsessed hater or homer . FWIW, Rodgers may believe a higher psi doesn't provide any advantage, but from what I understand a higher PSI allows the ball to be thrown faster and farther so it most definitely is an advantage afaik.

 

[Bayhawks]

You can't\won't answer 2 straightforward questions and now you've resorted to personal attacks; yes, you and I are done here.

You can't/wont stop posting complete lies and fabrications as if they are facts; yes, you and I are done here.

 

[Jercules]

Well, I just want to say that when it's your team's turn I'll be..... on your side. Just saying. Bogus is bogus.

Maybe, but it's not like the NFL only picks on the Pats (although many NE fans in this thread seem to believe that).My team is the Redskins & they got screwed (along with the Cowboys) during the uncapped year. $36 million of cap space taken away because they did something that wasn't even against the rules (but the NFL said "don't do that.")

Good Lord what are you smoking?

They stole a 1st round draft pick and hundreds of thousands of dollars from us because we had a guy film signals from the wrong area.

Seven years later, they say we have a 'reputation' and steal millions of dollars, another 1st (and a 4th), and four games from our GOAT QB because he might have known something about a ####### equipment violation...

Us? You aren't part of the Pats. The NFL essentially fined the 'skins $36 million for refusing to collude with the rest of the teams. If you weren't so bat-#### blinded by your blatant homerism, you'd have realized my post was noting that the NFL has made a habit of "unfair" practices. "You" aren't special; the NFL is an equal oppprtunity screwjob organization.

The funny part is not what absolute BS the bolded is. (What did the Panthers and Vikings get for absolutely, positively screwing with the balls again? A curfew?)

The funny part is by making that statement, you, as one of the most hilariously butthurt and frothing haters on this thread, tacitly admit that Brady and the Patriots are getting screwed.

"He deserves it, he cheated, he's not getting screwed... but if he was getting screwed, well... it's not like you guys are special!"

WTF are you babbling about? Do you even read the posts in this thread, or do you just skim them and say "this guy doesn't bow down to NE, he must be a butthurt salty hater!?"

I've said many times that the Pats/Brady are getting screwed. I've said many times that the amount of air in the football has a negligible impact on the game. I've said many times that this "scandal" (no matter what it's ultimate outcome) does not tarnish/diminish NE's SB win(s). I've said numerous times (in this & other threads) that TB is one of the top-2 QBs of all time, and this doesn't change that. I've said he's still a first-ballot HOFer.

I've also said that Brady screwed up here. Whether he knew or not what those 2 guys were doing, he made it clear to them how he liked his footballs, and after the fact, he had numerous opportunities to admit his part of the situation, take one for the team (fall on the sword, if you will) & say "it was all my fault," or claim partial blame. He chose, however, to say "I don't know anything," he claimed he didn't know those guys, he allowed them to get suspended without saying a word. When giving a chance to clear his name (sharing the text records), he chose not to do so. As a result, he gave Wells/the NFL the opportunity to say he was probably generally aware of a very minor rules infraction AND refused to cooperate. If he had handled it differently, the NFL wouldn't have had the grounds to try to levy such a stiff penalty.

Just because I'm not a Pats homer and I can acknowledge that the Pats aren't completely innocent patsies who were picked on by the big bad NFL in this situation doesn't make me a "butthurt" salty hater; it just means I'm not blinded by my red and blue fan goggles & can see the whole situation.

So if you agree Brady's getting screwed beyond all comprehension, why are you saying he needs to accept his punishment (like Cassius Clay did)?

If you agree he's getting screwed, why are you attempting to justify said screwing with garbage like the following: "If he wasn't such a self-righteous, arrogant ##### when admonishing the Ravens to "study the rulebook," he wouldn't be getting the backlash he is getting. But the fact is that he screwed hiimself"?

Even in the very same post you claim to have said all along that Brady is getting screwed, you nonetheless justify said screwing ("if blah blah blah hadn't blah blah blah... the NFL wouldn't have had the grounds to try to levy such a stiff penalty").

But hey, you've thrown in a few tired little qualifiers here and there, you've noticed Brady is a first ballot Hall-of-Famer, so obviously you're totally credible, my mistake.

Just embrace the hate, and accept that the only "situation" you've managed to see here is a chance to dump on an organization you don't like.

 

[Bayhawks]

Well, I just want to say that when it's your team's turn I'll be..... on your side. Just saying. Bogus is bogus.

Maybe, but it's not like the NFL only picks on the Pats (although many NE fans in this thread seem to believe that).My team is the Redskins & they got screwed (along with the Cowboys) during the uncapped year. $36 million of cap space taken away because they did something that wasn't even against the rules (but the NFL said "don't do that.")

Good Lord what are you smoking?

They stole a 1st round draft pick and hundreds of thousands of dollars from us because we had a guy film signals from the wrong area.

Seven years later, they say we have a 'reputation' and steal millions of dollars, another 1st (and a 4th), and four games from our GOAT QB because he might have known something about a ####### equipment violation...

Us? You aren't part of the Pats. The NFL essentially fined the 'skins $36 million for refusing to collude with the rest of the teams. If you weren't so bat-#### blinded by your blatant homerism, you'd have realized my post was noting that the NFL has made a habit of "unfair" practices. "You" aren't special; the NFL is an equal oppprtunity screwjob organization.

The funny part is not what absolute BS the bolded is. (What did the Panthers and Vikings get for absolutely, positively screwing with the balls again? A curfew?)

The funny part is by making that statement, you, as one of the most hilariously butthurt and frothing haters on this thread, tacitly admit that Brady and the Patriots are getting screwed.

"He deserves it, he cheated, he's not getting screwed... but if he was getting screwed, well... it's not like you guys are special!"

WTF are you babbling about? Do you even read the posts in this thread, or do you just skim them and say "this guy doesn't bow down to NE, he must be a butthurt salty hater!?"

I've said many times that the Pats/Brady are getting screwed. I've said many times that the amount of air in the football has a negligible impact on the game. I've said many times that this "scandal" (no matter what it's ultimate outcome) does not tarnish/diminish NE's SB win(s). I've said numerous times (in this & other threads) that TB is one of the top-2 QBs of all time, and this doesn't change that. I've said he's still a first-ballot HOFer.

I've also said that Brady screwed up here. Whether he knew or not what those 2 guys were doing, he made it clear to them how he liked his footballs, and after the fact, he had numerous opportunities to admit his part of the situation, take one for the team (fall on the sword, if you will) & say "it was all my fault," or claim partial blame. He chose, however, to say "I don't know anything," he claimed he didn't know those guys, he allowed them to get suspended without saying a word. When giving a chance to clear his name (sharing the text records), he chose not to do so. As a result, he gave Wells/the NFL the opportunity to say he was probably generally aware of a very minor rules infraction AND refused to cooperate. If he had handled it differently, the NFL wouldn't have had the grounds to try to levy such a stiff penalty.

Just because I'm not a Pats homer and I can acknowledge that the Pats aren't completely innocent patsies who were picked on by the big bad NFL in this situation doesn't make me a "butthurt" salty hater; it just means I'm not blinded by my red and blue fan goggles & can see the whole situation.

So if you agree Brady's getting screwed beyond all comprehension, why are you saying he needs to accept his punishment (like Cassius Clay did)?

If you agree he's getting screwed, why are you attempting to justify said screwing with garbage like the following: "If he wasn't such a self-righteous, arrogant ##### when admonishing the Ravens to "study the rulebook," he wouldn't be getting the backlash he is getting. But the fact is that he screwed hiimself"?

Even in the very same post you claim to have said all along that Brady is getting screwed, you nonetheless justify said screwing ("if blah blah blah hadn't blah blah blah... the NFL wouldn't have had the grounds to try to levy such a stiff penalty").

But hey, you've thrown in a few tired little qualifiers here and there, you've noticed Brady is a first ballot Hall-of-Famer, so obviously you're totally credible, my mistake.

Just embrace the hate, and accept that the only "situation" you've managed to see here is a chance to dump on an organization you do

I didn't bring up Clay, you (or another poster) did as an example of someone "following their conscience" as an excuse for why Brady didn't share his text records (as opposed to the far more likely scenario that they contained damning information). If you (or another poster) want to make that comparison, then you (or the other poster) have to draw the comparison out to its conclusion, which is following his conscience led to Clay being punished, as it should for Brady.

The fact is that Brady is a self-righteous #####. The fact is that Brady is getting screwed with a harsh punishment. The fact is that NE's SBs, Brady's records, and Brady's place in the HOF are are still secure. None of those facts are mutually exclusive. They can all be true, and they all are true.

I didn't justify the punishment, I merely noted how he made his situation worse (i.e.-he screwed himself). If he hadn't dug such a hard line in the sand by lying at the onset, then decided to stick to the lie, this would all be over & maybe he'd have gotten a fine (which would have been the more appropriate punishment). However, he told a lie, then decided to stick to that lie, despite all evidence to the contrary, and now he's dealing with the aftermath of that decision to screw himself.

I sincerely hope that your take on this situation isn't indicative of NE fans in general, because I'm starting to think this isn't schtick, and you really think this situation is as black and white as your posts indicate. "Tom Brady is an infallible god; he couldn't have done this, despite the overwhelming amount of evidence that he did! Anyone who thinks he isn't perfect must be jealous, a hater, or both. I lover Tom Brady! Yay! Yay! Yay!"

 

[Old Smiley]

I didn't bring up Clay, you (or another poster) did as an example of someone "following their conscience" as an excuse for why Brady didn't share his text records (as opposed to the far more likely scenario that they contained damning information). If you (or another poster) want to make that comparison, then you (or the other poster) have to draw the comparison out to its conclusion, which is following his conscience led to Clay being punished, as it should for Brady.

Yeah, that was me. He should face the consequences for following his conscience. Favre got a $50,000 fine and a rebuke.

Sounds about right.

Edit: Actually if either Favre or Brady fought even the fifty grand, I would side with them. Get a warrant, pal.

And I don't hold with the "it's in the CBA" argument either, really. That whole deal was negotiated with a gun to the players' heads. I think the league was threatening a lock-out before they even sat down.

 

[Old Smiley]

Further on the Cassius Clay thing. The analogy also breaks down in that the deal with Brady is more like, as opposed to the US govt putting Clay in jail, it was Don King doing the punishing.

 

[Bayhawks]

I didn't bring up Clay, you (or another poster) did as an example of someone "following their conscience" as an excuse for why Brady didn't share his text records (as opposed to the far more likely scenario that they contained damning information). If you (or another poster) want to make that comparison, then you (or the other poster) have to draw the comparison out to its conclusion, which is following his conscience led to Clay being punished, as it should for Brady.

Yeah, that was me. He should face the consequences for following his conscience. Favre got a $50,000 fine and a rebuke.

Sounds about right.

Edit: Actually if either Favre or Brady fought even the fifty grand, I would side with them. Get a warrant, pal.

And I don't hold with the "it's in the CBA" argument either, really. That whole deal was negotiated with a gun to the players' heads. I think the league was threatening a lock-out before they even sat down.

Agree with you. But you do have to consider the fact that Favre's situation didn't deal with the "integrity of the game," even if it is a frivolous rule.

With regards to the CBA argument, you don't have to hold with it. It is the document that regulates the NFL and the NFLPA. The players get benefits from the CBA, and they are obligated to comply with it, since they signed it. I'm a teacher in PA and we've been giving ####ty contracts the last several years because of politicians cutting funding; doesn't matter if we were being threatened with furloughs if we didn't sign our most recent contract, we still have to abide by it, since we agreed to it.

 

[Bayhawks]

Further on the Cassius Clay thing. The analogy also breaks down in that the deal with Brady is more like, as opposed to the US govt putting Clay in jail, it was Don King doing the punishing.

I don't follow.

Clay was obligated by United States law to serve in the military; he refused & the US punished him (although he was punished by the boxing powers that be, as well).

Brady is obligated by the NFL's CBA to fully cooperate with an NFL investigation; he refused and the NFL punished him.

How did Don King do the punishing (unless you are saying that King was behind having Clay stripped of his title)?

 

[Jercules]

Well, I just want to say that when it's your team's turn I'll be..... on your side. Just saying. Bogus is bogus.

Maybe, but it's not like the NFL only picks on the Pats (although many NE fans in this thread seem to believe that).My team is the Redskins & they got screwed (along with the Cowboys) during the uncapped year. $36 million of cap space taken away because they did something that wasn't even against the rules (but the NFL said "don't do that.")

Good Lord what are you smoking?

They stole a 1st round draft pick and hundreds of thousands of dollars from us because we had a guy film signals from the wrong area.

Seven years later, they say we have a 'reputation' and steal millions of dollars, another 1st (and a 4th), and four games from our GOAT QB because he might have known something about a ####### equipment violation...

Us? You aren't part of the Pats. The NFL essentially fined the 'skins $36 million for refusing to collude with the rest of the teams. If you weren't so bat-#### blinded by your blatant homerism, you'd have realized my post was noting that the NFL has made a habit of "unfair" practices. "You" aren't special; the NFL is an equal oppprtunity screwjob organization.

The funny part is not what absolute BS the bolded is. (What did the Panthers and Vikings get for absolutely, positively screwing with the balls again? A curfew?)

The funny part is by making that statement, you, as one of the most hilariously butthurt and frothing haters on this thread, tacitly admit that Brady and the Patriots are getting screwed.

"He deserves it, he cheated, he's not getting screwed... but if he was getting screwed, well... it's not like you guys are special!"

WTF are you babbling about? Do you even read the posts in this thread, or do you just skim them and say "this guy doesn't bow down to NE, he must be a butthurt salty hater!?"

I've said many times that the Pats/Brady are getting screwed. I've said many times that the amount of air in the football has a negligible impact on the game. I've said many times that this "scandal" (no matter what it's ultimate outcome) does not tarnish/diminish NE's SB win(s). I've said numerous times (in this & other threads) that TB is one of the top-2 QBs of all time, and this doesn't change that. I've said he's still a first-ballot HOFer.

I've also said that Brady screwed up here. Whether he knew or not what those 2 guys were doing, he made it clear to them how he liked his footballs, and after the fact, he had numerous opportunities to admit his part of the situation, take one for the team (fall on the sword, if you will) & say "it was all my fault," or claim partial blame. He chose, however, to say "I don't know anything," he claimed he didn't know those guys, he allowed them to get suspended without saying a word. When giving a chance to clear his name (sharing the text records), he chose not to do so. As a result, he gave Wells/the NFL the opportunity to say he was probably generally aware of a very minor rules infraction AND refused to cooperate. If he had handled it differently, the NFL wouldn't have had the grounds to try to levy such a stiff penalty.

Just because I'm not a Pats homer and I can acknowledge that the Pats aren't completely innocent patsies who were picked on by the big bad NFL in this situation doesn't make me a "butthurt" salty hater; it just means I'm not blinded by my red and blue fan goggles & can see the whole situation.

So if you agree Brady's getting screwed beyond all comprehension, why are you saying he needs to accept his punishment (like Cassius Clay did)?

If you agree he's getting screwed, why are you attempting to justify said screwing with garbage like the following: "If he wasn't such a self-righteous, arrogant ##### when admonishing the Ravens to "study the rulebook," he wouldn't be getting the backlash he is getting. But the fact is that he screwed hiimself"?

Even in the very same post you claim to have said all along that Brady is getting screwed, you nonetheless justify said screwing ("if blah blah blah hadn't blah blah blah... the NFL wouldn't have had the grounds to try to levy such a stiff penalty").

But hey, you've thrown in a few tired little qualifiers here and there, you've noticed Brady is a first ballot Hall-of-Famer, so obviously you're totally credible, my mistake.

Just embrace the hate, and accept that the only "situation" you've managed to see here is a chance to dump on an organization you do

I didn't bring up Clay, you (or another poster) did as an example of someone "following their conscience" as an excuse for why Brady didn't share his text records (as opposed to the far more likely scenario that they contained damning information). If you (or another poster) want to make that comparison, then you (or the other poster) have to draw the comparison out to its conclusion, which is following his conscience led to Clay being punished, as it should for Brady.

The fact is that Brady is a self-righteous #####. The fact is that Brady is getting screwed with a harsh punishment. The fact is that NE's SBs, Brady's records, and Brady's place in the HOF are are still secure. None of those facts are mutually exclusive. They can all be true, and they all are true.

I didn't justify the punishment, I merely noted how he made his situation worse (i.e.-he screwed himself). If he hadn't dug such a hard line in the sand by lying at the onset, then decided to stick to the lie, this would all be over & maybe he'd have gotten a fine (which would have been the more appropriate punishment). However, he told a lie, then decided to stick to that lie, despite all evidence to the contrary, and now he's dealing with the aftermath of that decision to screw himself.

I sincerely hope that your take on this situation isn't indicative of NE fans in general, because I'm starting to think this isn't schtick, and you really think this situation is as black and white as your posts indicate. "Tom Brady is an infallible god; he couldn't have done this, despite the overwhelming amount of evidence that he did! Anyone who thinks he isn't perfect must be jealous, a hater, or both. I lover Tom Brady! Yay! Yay! Yay!"

Writer's Tip: Very important. Quotation marks are to quote what someone has said, not your deranged imaginings of what someone has said.

You know, in this entire exchange, your sole salient point was when you asked me if I bother to read any of this.

Turns out, I should read more closely, because if I did I'd have remembered you as that guy with the thinly-veiled psychotic hatred for Tom Brady I had the chore of dealing with some pages back.

It's like arguing with the world's worst lawyer, pedantic and half-witted all at once. You qualify your excretions about Tom Brady by saying he's a first ballot Hall-of-Famer, you say "he's getting screwed" before ranting about how he deserves everything that's coming to him... who do you think you're fooling dude?

Then there's your ludicrous arguments: the Patriots get treated just like everyone else? You realize the Panthers and Vikings still have their 2016 first round draft picks right?

In all honesty, you read like you're a jilted ex-girlfriend of his, taking every little thing and slanting it impossibly bad (e.g. he deserves everything that has happened because of a snide response to a team whining about perfectly legal formations).

I could go on and on... but I already did!

 

[Stealthycat]

Brady is obligated by the NFL's CBA to fully cooperate with an NFL investigation

This isn't true is it?

 

[Bayhawks]

Well, I just want to say that when it's your team's turn I'll be..... on your side. Just saying. Bogus is bogus.

Maybe, but it's not like the NFL only picks on the Pats (although many NE fans in this thread seem to believe that).My team is the Redskins & they got screwed (along with the Cowboys) during the uncapped year. $36 million of cap space taken away because they did something that wasn't even against the rules (but the NFL said "don't do that.")

Good Lord what are you smoking?

They stole a 1st round draft pick and hundreds of thousands of dollars from us because we had a guy film signals from the wrong area.

Seven years later, they say we have a 'reputation' and steal millions of dollars, another 1st (and a 4th), and four games from our GOAT QB because he might have known something about a ####### equipment violation...

Us? You aren't part of the Pats. The NFL essentially fined the 'skins $36 million for refusing to collude with the rest of the teams. If you weren't so bat-#### blinded by your blatant homerism, you'd have realized my post was noting that the NFL has made a habit of "unfair" practices. "You" aren't special; the NFL is an equal oppprtunity screwjob organization.

The funny part is not what absolute BS the bolded is. (What did the Panthers and Vikings get for absolutely, positively screwing with the balls again? A curfew?)

The funny part is by making that statement, you, as one of the most hilariously butthurt and frothing haters on this thread, tacitly admit that Brady and the Patriots are getting screwed.

"He deserves it, he cheated, he's not getting screwed... but if he was getting screwed, well... it's not like you guys are special!"

WTF are you babbling about? Do you even read the posts in this thread, or do you just skim them and say "this guy doesn't bow down to NE, he must be a butthurt salty hater!?"I've said many times that the Pats/Brady are getting screwed. I've said many times that the amount of air in the football has a negligible impact on the game. I've said many times that this "scandal" (no matter what it's ultimate outcome) does not tarnish/diminish NE's SB win(s). I've said numerous times (in this & other threads) that TB is one of the top-2 QBs of all time, and this doesn't change that. I've said he's still a first-ballot HOFer.

I've also said that Brady screwed up here. Whether he knew or not what those 2 guys were doing, he made it clear to them how he liked his footballs, and after the fact, he had numerous opportunities to admit his part of the situation, take one for the team (fall on the sword, if you will) & say "it was all my fault," or claim partial blame. He chose, however, to say "I don't know anything," he claimed he didn't know those guys, he allowed them to get suspended without saying a word. When giving a chance to clear his name (sharing the text records), he chose not to do so. As a result, he gave Wells/the NFL the opportunity to say he was probably generally aware of a very minor rules infraction AND refused to cooperate. If he had handled it differently, the NFL wouldn't have had the grounds to try to levy such a stiff penalty.

Just because I'm not a Pats homer and I can acknowledge that the Pats aren't completely innocent patsies who were picked on by the big bad NFL in this situation doesn't make me a "butthurt" salty hater; it just means I'm not blinded by my red and blue fan goggles & can see the whole situation.

So if you agree Brady's getting screwed beyond all comprehension, why are you saying he needs to accept his punishment (like Cassius Clay did)?

If you agree he's getting screwed, why are you attempting to justify said screwing with garbage like the following: "If he wasn't such a self-righteous, arrogant ##### when admonishing the Ravens to "study the rulebook," he wouldn't be getting the backlash he is getting. But the fact is that he screwed hiimself"?

Even in the very same post you claim to have said all along that Brady is getting screwed, you nonetheless justify said screwing ("if blah blah blah hadn't blah blah blah... the NFL wouldn't have had the grounds to try to levy such a stiff penalty").

But hey, you've thrown in a few tired little qualifiers here and there, you've noticed Brady is a first ballot Hall-of-Famer, so obviously you're totally credible, my mistake.

Just embrace the hate, and accept that the only "situation" you've managed to see here is a chance to dump on an organization you do

I didn't bring up Clay, you (or another poster) did as an example of someone "following their conscience" as an excuse for why Brady didn't share his text records (as opposed to the far more likely scenario that they contained damning information). If you (or another poster) want to make that comparison, then you (or the other poster) have to draw the comparison out to its conclusion, which is following his conscience led to Clay being punished, as it should for Brady.The fact is that Brady is a self-righteous #####. The fact is that Brady is getting screwed with a harsh punishment. The fact is that NE's SBs, Brady's records, and Brady's place in the HOF are are still secure. None of those facts are mutually exclusive. They can all be true, and they all are true.

I didn't justify the punishment, I merely noted how he made his situation worse (i.e.-he screwed himself). If he hadn't dug such a hard line in the sand by lying at the onset, then decided to stick to the lie, this would all be over & maybe he'd have gotten a fine (which would have been the more appropriate punishment). However, he told a lie, then decided to stick to that lie, despite all evidence to the contrary, and now he's dealing with the aftermath of that decision to screw himself.

I sincerely hope that your take on this situation isn't indicative of NE fans in general, because I'm starting to think this isn't schtick, and you really think this situation is as black and white as your posts indicate. "Tom Brady is an infallible god; he couldn't have done this, despite the overwhelming amount of evidence that he did! Anyone who thinks he isn't perfect must be jealous, a hater, or both. I lover Tom Brady! Yay! Yay! Yay!"

Writer's Tip: Very important. Quotation marks are to quote what someone has said, not your deranged imaginings of what someone has said.

You know, in this entire exchange, your sole salient point was when you asked me if I bother to read any of this.

Turns out, I should read more closely, because if I did I'd have remembered you as that guy with the thinly-veiled psychotic hatred for Tom Brady I had the chore of dealing with some pages back.

It's like arguing with the world's worst lawyer, pedantic and half-witted all at once. You qualify your excretions about Tom Brady by saying he's a first ballot Hall-of-Famer, you say "he's getting screwed" before ranting about how he deserves everything that's coming to him... who do you think you're fooling dude?

Then there's your ludicrous arguments: the Patriots get treated just like everyone else? You realize the Panthers and Vikings still have their 2016 first round draft picks right?

In all honesty, you read like you're a jilted ex-girlfriend of his, taking every little thing and slanting it impossibly bad (e.g. he deserves everything that has happened because of a snide response to a team whining about perfectly legal formations).

I could go on and on... but I already did!

Good god. If you are trying to project an air of intelligence, at least make sure you are correct. Quotation marks are used to indicate sarcasm in writing, as well as to indicate direct quotation. Since this message board has a QUOTE response function, anyone with a modicum of intelligence should have been able to infer that I was being sarcastic.I'm going to put you on ignore now. You seem to have some serious issues & rather than continue to point out the lunacy in your incoherent, senseless, factless posts; I will allow you to continue to think Tom Brady is completely blameless & is simply being picked on because the NFL wants its best, most visible, most famous, SB MVP to be labeled as a cheater. Because that is exactly the kind of publicity the NFL would want, so it makes perfect sense to try to make him look bad.

 

[Jrodicus]

I hate it when mom and dad fight...

 

[Faust]

Report: Tom Brady, NFL have had settlement talks

 

[Faust]

Report: 'Influential' owners do not want Tom Brady's suspension reduced

 

[IvanKaramazov]

There seems to be a massive disconnect between sports journalists and the general public on this issue. I keep reading stories about how this is a black eye for the league and how obviously unjust Brady's suspension is, and yet the only people who actually seem to be upset about it all live in the 617 area code. Most everyone else seems happy the Patriots aren't being allowed to slide this time. Wasn't there a poll a while back that showed public opinion around 2-1 in the league's favor? Or am I misremembering that?

 

[Run It Up]

Joe Theismann: Tom Brady Innocent in Deflategate

 

[Old Smiley]

Mike Florio:

Attorney Gregg Levy, who was one of the finalists for the job Goodell received in 2006, participated in the Brady appeal hearing as a legal consultant to the Commissioner. It’s believed that Levy has been warning Goodell that it will be difficult to make a suspension stick in court, even under the heightened standard that applies to challenging the outcome of a private arbitration agreement.

 

[Old Smiley]

Bill Simmons ‏@BillSimmons 35m35 minutes ago

AFC title game: 1/18

Wells Report: 5/6

Brady suspension: 5/11

NFLPA appeal: 5/14

TB/RG meeting: 6/23

Today's date: 7/23

WE ARE IN MONTH 7

 

[burnall]

Report: 'Influential' owners do not want Tom Brady's suspension reduced

Goodell decides to stick with the four-game suspension, he'll appease those owners, but he'll likely receive some blowback from the general public because then Brady's suspension will be as long as Greg Hardy's.

Hardy was suspended for 10 games in April after the NFL "determined that there was sufficient credible evidence that Hardy engaged in conduct that violated NFL policies in multiple respects and with aggravating circumstances" in relation to a domestic abuse charge.

Am i the only 1 who is sick of hearing brady being compared to hardy? he already missed 15 games last year, how can you compare his 4 games this year to bradys 4 games who didnt miss any last year? and in none of these articles dose it mentioned the 15 games missed last year. so its really a 19-4 comparison.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Excellent.

 

[DropKick]

Well, I just want to say that when it's your team's turn I'll be..... on your side. Just saying. Bogus is bogus.

Maybe, but it's not like the NFL only picks on the Pats (although many NE fans in this thread seem to believe that).My team is the Redskins & they got screwed (along with the Cowboys) during the uncapped year. $36 million of cap space taken away because they did something that wasn't even against the rules (but the NFL said "don't do that.")

Good Lord what are you smoking?

They stole a 1st round draft pick and hundreds of thousands of dollars from us because we had a guy film signals from the wrong area.

Seven years later, they say we have a 'reputation' and steal millions of dollars, another 1st (and a 4th), and four games from our GOAT QB because he might have known something about a ####### equipment violation...

Us? You aren't part of the Pats. The NFL essentially fined the 'skins $36 million for refusing to collude with the rest of the teams. If you weren't so bat-#### blinded by your blatant homerism, you'd have realized my post was noting that the NFL has made a habit of "unfair" practices. "You" aren't special; the NFL is an equal oppprtunity screwjob organization.

The funny part is not what absolute BS the bolded is. (What did the Panthers and Vikings get for absolutely, positively screwing with the balls again? A curfew?)

The funny part is by making that statement, you, as one of the most hilariously butthurt and frothing haters on this thread, tacitly admit that Brady and the Patriots are getting screwed.

"He deserves it, he cheated, he's not getting screwed... but if he was getting screwed, well... it's not like you guys are special!"

WTF are you babbling about? Do you even read the posts in this thread, or do you just skim them and say "this guy doesn't bow down to NE, he must be a butthurt salty hater!?"

I've said many times that the Pats/Brady are getting screwed. I've said many times that the amount of air in the football has a negligible impact on the game. I've said many times that this "scandal" (no matter what it's ultimate outcome) does not tarnish/diminish NE's SB win(s). I've said numerous times (in this & other threads) that TB is one of the top-2 QBs of all time, and this doesn't change that. I've said he's still a first-ballot HOFer.

I've also said that Brady screwed up here. Whether he knew or not what those 2 guys were doing, he made it clear to them how he liked his footballs, and after the fact, he had numerous opportunities to admit his part of the situation, take one for the team (fall on the sword, if you will) & say "it was all my fault," or claim partial blame. He chose, however, to say "I don't know anything," he claimed he didn't know those guys, he allowed them to get suspended without saying a word. When giving a chance to clear his name (sharing the text records), he chose not to do so. As a result, he gave Wells/the NFL the opportunity to say he was probably generally aware of a very minor rules infraction AND refused to cooperate. If he had handled it differently, the NFL wouldn't have had the grounds to try to levy such a stiff penalty.

Just because I'm not a Pats homer and I can acknowledge that the Pats aren't completely innocent patsies who were picked on by the big bad NFL in this situation doesn't make me a "butthurt" salty hater; it just means I'm not blinded by my red and blue fan goggles & can see the whole situation.

So if you agree Brady's getting screwed beyond all comprehension, why are you saying he needs to accept his punishment (like Cassius Clay did)?

If you agree he's getting screwed, why are you attempting to justify said screwing with garbage like the following: "If he wasn't such a self-righteous, arrogant ##### when admonishing the Ravens to "study the rulebook," he wouldn't be getting the backlash he is getting. But the fact is that he screwed hiimself"?

Even in the very same post you claim to have said all along that Brady is getting screwed, you nonetheless justify said screwing ("if blah blah blah hadn't blah blah blah... the NFL wouldn't have had the grounds to try to levy such a stiff penalty").

But hey, you've thrown in a few tired little qualifiers here and there, you've noticed Brady is a first ballot Hall-of-Famer, so obviously you're totally credible, my mistake.

Just embrace the hate, and accept that the only "situation" you've managed to see here is a chance to dump on an organization you do

I didn't bring up Clay, you (or another poster) did as an example of someone "following their conscience" as an excuse for why Brady didn't share his text records (as opposed to the far more likely scenario that they contained damning information). If you (or another poster) want to make that comparison, then you (or the other poster) have to draw the comparison out to its conclusion, which is following his conscience led to Clay being punished, as it should for Brady.

The fact is that Brady is a self-righteous #####. The fact is that Brady is getting screwed with a harsh punishment. The fact is that NE's SBs, Brady's records, and Brady's place in the HOF are are still secure. None of those facts are mutually exclusive. They can all be true, and they all are true.

I didn't justify the punishment, I merely noted how he made his situation worse (i.e.-he screwed himself). If he hadn't dug such a hard line in the sand by lying at the onset, then decided to stick to the lie, this would all be over & maybe he'd have gotten a fine (which would have been the more appropriate punishment). However, he told a lie, then decided to stick to that lie, despite all evidence to the contrary, and now he's dealing with the aftermath of that decision to screw himself.

I sincerely hope that your take on this situation isn't indicative of NE fans in general, because I'm starting to think this isn't schtick, and you really think this situation is as black and white as your posts indicate. "Tom Brady is an infallible god; he couldn't have done this, despite the overwhelming amount of evidence that he did! Anyone who thinks he isn't perfect must be jealous, a hater, or both. I lover Tom Brady! Yay! Yay! Yay!"

Writer's Tip: Very important. Quotation marks are to quote what someone has said, not your deranged imaginings of what someone has said.

You know, in this entire exchange, your sole salient point was when you asked me if I bother to read any of this.

Turns out, I should read more closely, because if I did I'd have remembered you as that guy with the thinly-veiled psychotic hatred for Tom Brady I had the chore of dealing with some pages back.

It's like arguing with the world's worst lawyer, pedantic and half-witted all at once. You qualify your excretions about Tom Brady by saying he's a first ballot Hall-of-Famer, you say "he's getting screwed" before ranting about how he deserves everything that's coming to him... who do you think you're fooling dude?

Then there's your ludicrous arguments: the Patriots get treated just like everyone else? You realize the Panthers and Vikings still have their 2016 first round draft picks right?

In all honesty, you read like you're a jilted ex-girlfriend of his, taking every little thing and slanting it impossibly bad (e.g. he deserves everything that has happened because of a snide response to a team whining about perfectly legal formations).

I could go on and on... but I already did!

Despite some opinions to the contrary, the league isn't the Gestapo. You don't really think the league should go to that extreme for a single incident of heating the ball under frigid conditions? And, yes, I do know you're not supposed to do anything to the ball.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Am i the only 1 who is sick of hearing brady being compared to hardy?

Agreed. These are apples and oranges. One guy is being punished for cheating, which is the sort of thing that any sports leagues is clearly going to take a keen interest in. The other guy is being punished for off-the-field behavior that's only tangential to the league's business (important for marketing reasons only).