Patriots being investigated after Colts game (2 Viewers)

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Are the Patriot's Lombardi trophies made by Tiffany's of the same sterling silver as the others that have been awarded, because they sure seem to be suffering a lot of tarnishing. Oh, through homergoggles they look about the same, but the tarnish is evident to those whose vision is not so impeded.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

But I do think the NFL is arbitrary in how it handles situations and think the commissioner is more of a tyrannical dictator than an impartial arbiter.

Even if that's true, what motivation does Goodell have to unfairly lean in the way of guilt? The owner of the Patriots is one of his good friends. His brand doesn't want to see arguably its most popular and golden player stained with allegations of cheating, nor see its champion accused of the same.

Even if Goodell has way too much power in this to push his own motives, his own motives would point him in the direction of shoving this under the rug as much as possible. He only hurts himself by punishing Brady and the Pats, so to do so he must find the evidence very convincing. If it weren't, motives would dictate that he err on the side of Brady/New England being let off the hook, not on the side of them being punished.

It must be amazingly hard to have such a myopic view of things. Roger Goodall and the NFL are lobbying HARD to grow the NFL into unsaturated markets outside the NFL. They MUST convince foreign lands that they are impartial and the playing field is fair. In this day and age, and in addition to the recent utter failure of the NFL to originally sanction anywhere near of a fair decision in the ray rice case, the NFL has to over compensate in every avenue they control to restore balance and the proper image they wish to display.

Roger Goodell is the walking illustration of a 60 year old impotent man with a Porsche and a speedboat.

And a hoard of Viagra.

 

[JIslander]

Don't buy the "he's too much a celeb to trust handing over his cell" thing so of course he has to destroy. This WHOLE circus was to protect his "legacy", and for Tommy, I'm sure football trumps all.

 

[Bayhawks]

however, when we requested documents from Wells, our request was rejected on the basis of privilege.

That's not going to play well in court for the NFL. Not one bit.

Why? This wasn't a criminal case. It was a private investigation; Brady wasn't presenting a case, they were participating in an investigation. They werent going to call witnesses. Unless He was referring to the appeals, he didn't have any right to Wells information.

 

[Tool]

Adam Schefter
Just now ·
NFLPA statement on Tom Brady suspension:

"The Commissioner's ruling today did nothing to address the legal deficiencies of due process. The NFL remains stuck with the following facts:

The NFL had no policy that applied to players;

The NFL provided no notice of any such policy or potential discipline to players;

The NFL resorted to a nebulous standard of "general awareness" to predicate a legally unjustified punishment;

The NFL had no procedures in place until two days ago to test air pressure in footballs; and

The NFL violated the plain meaning of the collective bargaining agreement.

The fact that the NFL would resort to basing a suspension on a smoke screen of irrelevant text messages instead of admitting that they have all of the phone records they asked for is a new low, even for them, but it does nothing to correct their errors.

The NFLPA will appeal this outrageous decision on behalf of Tom Brady.

-- NFL Players Association"

yep

 

[Anarchy99]

Anarchy,

How is this injunction any different than what Adrian Peterson asked for?

Roger Goodell has a CBA allowing him to hear appeals. He did and ruled. Explain to me what is different.

Adrian Peterson was found innocent by a court of law, but his injunction was not granted. This is what I am saying. The injunction would have to state that Brady missing the 4 games would do irreparable harm (that could not be satisfied by a monetary judgement should he win in court).

I stand by my statement that sees no chance of an injunction. Can Tom win in court? Sure, but he will have already sat those four games.

David

I already outlined what Brady can and will argue. And the cell phone has nothing to do with it.For example, the CBA does not cite that players have to turn over private communications or records to the league. I also believe that labor laws also cannot force employees to give up their personal devices. That might be different in the case of a crime, but no one was charged with a crime. Also, the league took 7 months to investigate and ultimately give their final ruling on this and left Brady no time to seek relief elsewhere. Again, I don't think it is cut and dried as you make it out to be.

For the millionth time, nobody ever asked Brady to surrender his phone. You're getting basic, fundamental facts wrong.

The physical phone or the contents contained on them all fall in the same category. They can ask for them, but I do not believe an employee is obligated to produce things from a personal device.

 

[The General]

• November 6, 2014: Brady got a new phone.
• mid Febuary - the Wells team requested electronic information from Brady.
• Feb 28: request was renewed.
• March 3: Brady interview date confirmed.
• March 6th (or 5th): phone destroyed, Brady gets new phone.
• March 6: Brady inverviewed by Wells.

During interview, Brady testified that he was personally aware of the request for info from his phone. Brady did not mention during the interview that his phone was (or will be) destroyed.

pg 12, 13

That doc also states Brady said he had no set timetable for getting rid of cell phones.

To me this is like the texts with the 2 equipment guys. Some things are just so blatant that you can't buy any explanation.

 

[Shutout]

Which is even more reason why Brady would be entitled to an injunction. The league left him no time to do anything anout it by dragging their feet literally the entire offseason.

That's very important. Just as much as one might assume destroying a phone is guilt of specifically what is drawn up in ones head, waiting to rule literally on the eve of camps opening might lead others to assume that 100 days of investigation, followed by one day to prepare a rebuttal, followed by waiting until the eleventh hour to finalize it indicates a major squeeze play was leveraged.

 

[Old Smiley]

Patriots statement:

“We are extremely disappointed in today’s ruling by Commissioner Goodell,” the team statement read. “We cannot comprehend the league’s position in this matter. Most would agree that the penalties levied originally were excessive and unprecedented, especially in light of the fact that the league has no hard evidence of wrongdoing. We continue to unequivocally believe in and support Tom Brady. We also believe that the laws of science continue to underscore the folly of this entire ordeal.

“Given all of this, it is incomprehensible as to why the league is attempting to destroy the reputation of one of its greatest players and representatives.”

 

[Shutout]

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 20m20 minutes ago

Habit or not, if Brady destroyed the phone with awareness of the pending request to review its contents, that's a problem.

Can someone find out something about the "habit" bit? Not seeing anything...

if I were a celebrity and had his kind of money, I would absolutely destroy my old phone when I was done with it.

This is a no-brainer. If you have the money he does and the wife he does, believe me...NOBODY is going to get within ten feet of your phone cause you know what kinda stuff is on that thing. TMZ would have ALL kinds of pics by tomorrow.Think about it, none of us are Tom Brady, probably don't have his wealth or a wife and lifestyle like he does and still, how many of us would want to let a stranger look through our phone all they want?

Elaborate. Are you saying that you know that there is very incriminating evidence (or was) on that phone? I guess that's what I have an issue with. If there is nothing to hide, why not show that? I don't have anything to hide, I wouldn't have an issue with a professional (not a "stranger") looking through my phone and giving it back to me. They're going to see pictures of my pets and kid, and that I called my wife. Maybe I'm boring....

No, I know nothing that is on his phone but I know that any shred of information belonging to high-profile people that can be manipulated in any way to drum up a news buzz and spun negatively often is. And I know that a high profile person combined with out of context and circumstantial information combined with the NFL that seemingly can't protect an ounce of information that is supposed to be confidential is a bad recipe. Think about your phone. Maybe some of us are boring and nothing EVER happens. But for many people, there are texts that you'd prefer others not know about. There might be pics. There may be unsolicited information (but you still got it). I'm not saying he cheats on his wife. I'm not saying he did or didn't do the deflate. But I CAN have an open enough mind to understand that in a person's phone, aside from many private items (financial, photographic, messages), there might be something as simple as a few conversations he had with other players about his real thoughts on Aaron Hernandez and what he knew...or a game plan..or a business venture...or any of a number of things that might make a man say "I can't let the entire world see this". It doesn't have to be something sinister..It could be anything. Maybe his wife cheated on HIM and they are reconciling and want to keep it on the down low and he doesn't want info with his marriage counselor out there.

You just never know but I find it completely reasonable that the vast majority of people in life that don't have a fraction of Tom Brady's lifestyle, might be reluctant to turn over their private information, on the principle of privacy and on the principle of not trusting it won't get leaked.

I'm being serious: dobyou not understand that Wells did nor ask for physical possession of the phone? He asked for copies of relevant texts. So any pics, game plans discussion about Hernandez, info about his wife's cheating, etc wouldn't have gone public unless he decided to put it our there.

Understood completely. I'm asking you to understand that people have trust issues and the NFL has a record of letting things get out. Bad things. Drug test things. Things that are not supposed to get out.. But the fact is they do and once they are, you can't take them back. And we don't know the nature of the Gooodell office/Tom Brady relationship. Brady might jus tbe a buyer of conspiracy theory enough to think "I'll give this to them and they won't find crap. But then next week, somehow, lo and behold, all those pics of Gisele on the beach or all those texts of me ragging on Peyton will surface on TMZ...mysteriously." This is about trust and its obvious the NFL deserves little in how they have handled and reacted to sensitive information.

See my previous post about how Brady didn't need to trust the NFL, b/c he could control what Wells got. so no Giselle pics or texts ragging Peyton could have surfaced. You're making a baseless argument, because there is no basis for Brady to refuse to have chosen to provide copies of texts (AGAIN-NOT HIS ACTUAL PHONE!), or to destroy his phone at that exact time.

You speak as if the NFL can be trusted. Tom Brady has watched this league, many times, leak info that was not supposed to be leaked. On drug infractions, personnel info, knowledge of infractions, etc. Why on Earth would he trust an organization that has repeatedly demonstrated failure to maintain privacy.

If you had Aids, would you go to the doctor that is literally in the news every year for having leaked patient info? No. You would not.

 

[Run It Up]

Anyone mind clueing me in why we're acting like this is some kind of hot #### revelation?

Nothing changed. The Wells report is still bull####, Brady is still guilty according to the NFL for being aware of ball deflation that may have never happened and for not cooperating, which the NFLPA is pretty convinced Brady did everything he was required of.

 

[Bayhawks]

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 20m20 minutes ago

Habit or not, if Brady destroyed the phone with awareness of the pending request to review its contents, that's a problem.

Can someone find out something about the "habit" bit? Not seeing anything...

if I were a celebrity and had his kind of money, I would absolutely destroy my old phone when I was done with it.

This is a no-brainer. If you have the money he does and the wife he does, believe me...NOBODY is going to get within ten feet of your phone cause you know what kinda stuff is on that thing. TMZ would have ALL kinds of pics by tomorrow.Think about it, none of us are Tom Brady, probably don't have his wealth or a wife and lifestyle like he does and still, how many of us would want to let a stranger look through our phone all they want?

Elaborate. Are you saying that you know that there is very incriminating evidence (or was) on that phone? I guess that's what I have an issue with. If there is nothing to hide, why not show that? I don't have anything to hide, I wouldn't have an issue with a professional (not a "stranger") looking through my phone and giving it back to me. They're going to see pictures of my pets and kid, and that I called my wife. Maybe I'm boring....

No, I know nothing that is on his phone but I know that any shred of information belonging to high-profile people that can be manipulated in any way to drum up a news buzz and spun negatively often is. And I know that a high profile person combined with out of context and circumstantial information combined with the NFL that seemingly can't protect an ounce of information that is supposed to be confidential is a bad recipe. Think about your phone. Maybe some of us are boring and nothing EVER happens. But for many people, there are texts that you'd prefer others not know about. There might be pics. There may be unsolicited information (but you still got it). I'm not saying he cheats on his wife. I'm not saying he did or didn't do the deflate. But I CAN have an open enough mind to understand that in a person's phone, aside from many private items (financial, photographic, messages), there might be something as simple as a few conversations he had with other players about his real thoughts on Aaron Hernandez and what he knew...or a game plan..or a business venture...or any of a number of things that might make a man say "I can't let the entire world see this". It doesn't have to be something sinister..It could be anything. Maybe his wife cheated on HIM and they are reconciling and want to keep it on the down low and he doesn't want info with his marriage counselor out there.

You just never know but I find it completely reasonable that the vast majority of people in life that don't have a fraction of Tom Brady's lifestyle, might be reluctant to turn over their private information, on the principle of privacy and on the principle of not trusting it won't get leaked.

I'm being serious: dobyou not understand that Wells did nor ask for physical possession of the phone? He asked for copies of relevant texts. So any pics, game plans discussion about Hernandez, info about his wife's cheating, etc wouldn't have gone public unless he decided to put it our there.

Understood completely. I'm asking you to understand that people have trust issues and the NFL has a record of letting things get out. Bad things. Drug test things. Things that are not supposed to get out.. But the fact is they do and once they are, you can't take them back. And we don't know the nature of the Gooodell office/Tom Brady relationship. Brady might jus tbe a buyer of conspiracy theory enough to think "I'll give this to them and they won't find crap. But then next week, somehow, lo and behold, all those pics of Gisele on the beach or all those texts of me ragging on Peyton will surface on TMZ...mysteriously." This is about trust and its obvious the NFL deserves little in how they have handled and reacted to sensitive information.

See my previous post about how Brady didn't need to trust the NFL, b/c he could control what Wells got. so no Giselle pics or texts ragging Peyton could have surfaced. You're making a baseless argument, because there is no basis for Brady to refuse to have chosen to provide copies of texts (AGAIN-NOT HIS ACTUAL PHONE!), or to destroy his phone at that exact time.

You speak as if the NFL can be trusted. Tom Brady has watched this league, many times, leak info that was not supposed to be leaked. On drug infractions, personnel info, knowledge of infractions, etc. Why on Earth would he trust an organization that has repeatedly demonstrated failure to maintain privacy.

If you had Aids, would you go to the doctor that is literally in the news every year for having leaked patient info? No. You would not.

What could the NFL have leaked? They were only going to get what Brady gave them! If he didn't give them pics of his dog licking peanut butter off his toes, then the NFL couldn't have leaked those pics. I'm not speaking as if the NFL can ce trusted, I'm stating THE FACT that Beady didn't need to trust the NFL, he only had to trust himself not to give them anything that was worth leaking.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Anyone mind clueing me in why we're acting like this is some kind of hot #### revelation?

Nothing changed. The Wells report is still bull####, Brady is still guilty according to the NFL for being aware of ball deflation that may have never happened and for not cooperating, which the NFLPA is pretty convinced Brady did everything he was required of.

Why did Brady destroy his phone?

 

[Old Smiley]

Anyone mind clueing me in why we're acting like this is some kind of hot #### revelation?

Nothing changed. The Wells report is still bull####, Brady is still guilty according to the NFL for being aware of ball deflation that may have never happened and for not cooperating, which the NFLPA is pretty convinced Brady did everything he was required of.

Because the league sprang the destroyed phone on us. And it hurts.

But, you know what? It's so freaking stupid that Brady MUST be innocent! I'm back, baby!!

 

[SIDA!]

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 20m20 minutes ago

Habit or not, if Brady destroyed the phone with awareness of the pending request to review its contents, that's a problem.

Can someone find out something about the "habit" bit? Not seeing anything...

if I were a celebrity and had his kind of money, I would absolutely destroy my old phone when I was done with it.

This is a no-brainer. If you have the money he does and the wife he does, believe me...NOBODY is going to get within ten feet of your phone cause you know what kinda stuff is on that thing. TMZ would have ALL kinds of pics by tomorrow.Think about it, none of us are Tom Brady, probably don't have his wealth or a wife and lifestyle like he does and still, how many of us would want to let a stranger look through our phone all they want?

Elaborate. Are you saying that you know that there is very incriminating evidence (or was) on that phone? I guess that's what I have an issue with. If there is nothing to hide, why not show that? I don't have anything to hide, I wouldn't have an issue with a professional (not a "stranger") looking through my phone and giving it back to me. They're going to see pictures of my pets and kid, and that I called my wife. Maybe I'm boring....

No, I know nothing that is on his phone but I know that any shred of information belonging to high-profile people that can be manipulated in any way to drum up a news buzz and spun negatively often is. And I know that a high profile person combined with out of context and circumstantial information combined with the NFL that seemingly can't protect an ounce of information that is supposed to be confidential is a bad recipe. Think about your phone. Maybe some of us are boring and nothing EVER happens. But for many people, there are texts that you'd prefer others not know about. There might be pics. There may be unsolicited information (but you still got it). I'm not saying he cheats on his wife. I'm not saying he did or didn't do the deflate. But I CAN have an open enough mind to understand that in a person's phone, aside from many private items (financial, photographic, messages), there might be something as simple as a few conversations he had with other players about his real thoughts on Aaron Hernandez and what he knew...or a game plan..or a business venture...or any of a number of things that might make a man say "I can't let the entire world see this". It doesn't have to be something sinister..It could be anything. Maybe his wife cheated on HIM and they are reconciling and want to keep it on the down low and he doesn't want info with his marriage counselor out there.

You just never know but I find it completely reasonable that the vast majority of people in life that don't have a fraction of Tom Brady's lifestyle, might be reluctant to turn over their private information, on the principle of privacy and on the principle of not trusting it won't get leaked.

I'm being serious: dobyou not understand that Wells did nor ask for physical possession of the phone? He asked for copies of relevant texts. So any pics, game plans discussion about Hernandez, info about his wife's cheating, etc wouldn't have gone public unless he decided to put it our there.

Understood completely. I'm asking you to understand that people have trust issues and the NFL has a record of letting things get out. Bad things. Drug test things. Things that are not supposed to get out.. But the fact is they do and once they are, you can't take them back. And we don't know the nature of the Gooodell office/Tom Brady relationship. Brady might jus tbe a buyer of conspiracy theory enough to think "I'll give this to them and they won't find crap. But then next week, somehow, lo and behold, all those pics of Gisele on the beach or all those texts of me ragging on Peyton will surface on TMZ...mysteriously." This is about trust and its obvious the NFL deserves little in how they have handled and reacted to sensitive information.

See my previous post about how Brady didn't need to trust the NFL, b/c he could control what Wells got. so no Giselle pics or texts ragging Peyton could have surfaced. You're making a baseless argument, because there is no basis for Brady to refuse to have chosen to provide copies of texts (AGAIN-NOT HIS ACTUAL PHONE!), or to destroy his phone at that exact time.

You speak as if the NFL can be trusted. Tom Brady has watched this league, many times, leak info that was not supposed to be leaked. On drug infractions, personnel info, knowledge of infractions, etc.Why on Earth would he trust an organization that has repeatedly demonstrated failure to maintain privacy.

If you had Aids, would you go to the doctor that is literally in the news every year for having leaked patient info? No. You would not.

What could the NFL have leaked? They were only going to get what Brady gave them! If he didn't give them pics of his dog licking peanut butter off his toes, then the NFL couldn't have leaked those pics. I'm not speaking as if the NFL can ce trusted, I'm stating THE FACT that Beady didn't need to trust the NFL, he only had to trust himself not to give them anything that was worth leaking.

So...had Brady's attorney turned over nothing or no documents that damage Brady... you are saying that Goodell would have rescinded the suspension and approved the appeal?

 

[Shutout]

But I do think the NFL is arbitrary in how it handles situations and think the commissioner is more of a tyrannical dictator than an impartial arbiter.

Even if that's true, what motivation does Goodell have to unfairly lean in the way of guilt? The owner of the Patriots is one of his good friends. His brand doesn't want to see arguably its most popular and golden player stained with allegations of cheating, nor see its champion accused of the same.

Even if Goodell has way too much power in this to push his own motives, his own motives would point him in the direction of shoving this under the rug as much as possible. He only hurts himself by punishing Brady and the Pats, so to do so he must find the evidence very convincing. If it weren't, motives would dictate that he err on the side of Brady/New England being let off the hook, not on the side of them being punished.

It must be amazingly hard to have such a myopic view of things. Roger Goodall and the NFL are lobbying HARD to grow the NFL into unsaturated markets outside the NFL. They MUST convince foreign lands that they are impartial and the playing field is fair. In this day and age, and in addition to the recent utter failure of the NFL to originally sanction anywhere near of a fair decision in the ray rice case, the NFL has to over compensate in every avenue they control to restore balance and the proper image they wish to display.

Roger Goodell is the walking illustration of a 60 year old impotent man with a Porsche and a speedboat.

So its a conspiracy, got it, thanks for your input

Yeah, my bad. The NFL isn't openly interested in foreign expansion. They don't care fanatically about image. They didn't look like total idiots and come under so much pressure with the Ray rice issue that they launched an entire television campaign about domestic violence. You are right. None of those things happened and it can not be utterly possible that there is more than one single factor playing into this entire scenario outside of Tom Brady and his cell phone. The NFL isn't methodical and calculating. They don't think like that.

 

[SIDA!]

Anyone mind clueing me in why we're acting like this is some kind of hot #### revelation?

Nothing changed. The Wells report is still bull####, Brady is still guilty according to the NFL for being aware of ball deflation that may have never happened and for not cooperating, which the NFLPA is pretty convinced Brady did everything he was required of.

Why did Brady destroy his phone?

If he didn't need to turn it over...why do you think he destroyed?

I keep reading about people saying the NFL never asked for his phone. So...if he never had to turn it over why would he destroy it?

 

[The General]

Anyone mind clueing me in why we're acting like this is some kind of hot #### revelation?

Nothing changed. The Wells report is still bull####, Brady is still guilty according to the NFL for being aware of ball deflation that may have never happened and for not cooperating, which the NFLPA is pretty convinced Brady did everything he was required of.

Because the league sprang the destroyed phone on us. And it hurts.But, you know what? It's so freaking stupid that Brady MUST be innocent! I'm back, baby!!

 

[Run It Up]

Anyone mind clueing me in why we're acting like this is some kind of hot #### revelation?

Nothing changed. The Wells report is still bull####, Brady is still guilty according to the NFL for being aware of ball deflation that may have never happened and for not cooperating, which the NFLPA is pretty convinced Brady did everything he was required of.

Why did Brady destroy his phone?

Cause he felt like it? What does that change? Brady have some sort of super phone that wasn't connected to a service provider? Are his records not obtainable by a court if subpoenaed. Did the NFL think Brady was gonna for some reason hand over his phone records at the appeal?

Do you think it would have changed a ####### thing if he had turned over his records?

Goodell had one option and now they will go to court and a truly neutral third party will decide whether Brady will get his injuction and whether Goodell acted outside of the CBA.

 

[Bayhawks]

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 20m20 minutes ago

Habit or not, if Brady destroyed the phone with awareness of the pending request to review its contents, that's a problem.

Can someone find out something about the "habit" bit? Not seeing anything...

if I were a celebrity and had his kind of money, I would absolutely destroy my old phone when I was done with it.

This is a no-brainer. If you have the money he does and the wife he does, believe me...NOBODY is going to get within ten feet of your phone cause you know what kinda stuff is on that thing. TMZ would have ALL kinds of pics by tomorrow.

Think about it, none of us are Tom Brady, probably don't have his wealth or a wife and lifestyle like he does and still, how many of us would want to let a stranger look through our phone all they want?

Elaborate. Are you saying that you know that there is very incriminating evidence (or was) on that phone?

I guess that's what I have an issue with. If there is nothing to hide, why not show that? I don't have anything to hide, I wouldn't have an issue with a professional (not a "stranger") looking through my phone and giving it back to me. They're going to see pictures of my pets and kid, and that I called my wife. Maybe I'm boring....

No, I know nothing that is on his phone but I know that any shred of information belonging to high-profile people that can be manipulated in any way to drum up a news buzz and spun negatively often is. And I know that a high profile person combined with out of context and circumstantial information combined with the NFL that seemingly can't protect an ounce of information that is supposed to be confidential is a bad recipe.

Think about your phone. Maybe some of us are boring and nothing EVER happens. But for many people, there are texts that you'd prefer others not know about. There might be pics. There may be unsolicited information (but you still got it). I'm not saying he cheats on his wife. I'm not saying he did or didn't do the deflate. But I CAN have an open enough mind to understand that in a person's phone, aside from many private items (financial, photographic, messages), there might be something as simple as a few conversations he had with other players about his real thoughts on Aaron Hernandez and what he knew...or a game plan..or a business venture...or any of a number of things that might make a man say "I can't let the entire world see this". It doesn't have to be something sinister..It could be anything. Maybe his wife cheated on HIM and they are reconciling and want to keep it on the down low and he doesn't want info with his marriage counselor out there.

You just never know but I find it completely reasonable that the vast majority of people in life that don't have a fraction of Tom Brady's lifestyle, might be reluctant to turn over their private information, on the principle of privacy and on the principle of not trusting it won't get leaked.

I'm being serious: dobyou not understand that Wells did nor ask for physical possession of the phone? He asked for copies of relevant texts. So any pics, game plans discussion about Hernandez, info about his wife's cheating, etc wouldn't have gone public unless he decided to put it our there.

Understood completely. I'm asking you to understand that people have trust issues and the NFL has a record of letting things get out. Bad things. Drug test things. Things that are not supposed to get out.. But the fact is they do and once they are, you can't take them back. And we don't know the nature of the Gooodell office/Tom Brady relationship. Brady might jus tbe a buyer of conspiracy theory enough to think "I'll give this to them and they won't find crap. But then next week, somehow, lo and behold, all those pics of Gisele on the beach or all those texts of me ragging on Peyton will surface on TMZ...mysteriously."

This is about trust and its obvious the NFL deserves little in how they have handled and reacted to sensitive information.

See my previous post about how Brady didn't need to trust the NFL, b/c he could control what Wells got. so no Giselle pics or texts ragging Peyton could have surfaced. You're making a baseless argument, because there is no basis for Brady to refuse to have chosen to provide copies of texts (AGAIN-NOT HIS ACTUAL PHONE!), or to destroy his phone at that exact time.

You speak as if the NFL can be trusted. Tom Brady has watched this league, many times, leak info that was not supposed to be leaked. On drug infractions, personnel info, knowledge of infractions, etc.

Why on Earth would he trust an organization that has repeatedly demonstrated failure to maintain privacy.

If you had Aids, would you go to the doctor that is literally in the news every year for having leaked patient info? No. You would not.

What could the NFL have leaked? They were only going to get what Brady gave them! If he didn't give them pics of his dog licking peanut butter off his toes, then the NFL couldn't have leaked those pics. I'm not speaking as if the NFL can ce trusted, I'm stating THE FACT that Beady didn't need to trust the NFL, he only had to trust himself not to give them anything that was worth leaking.

So...had Brady's attorney turned over nothing or no documents that damage Brady... you are saying that Goodell would have rescinded the suspension and approved the appeal?

No, what I'm saying is the "he didn't turn his phone over due to privacy concerns" argument is merit less. There was no privacy concerns b/c Brady never had to give up possession of his cell.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Anyone mind clueing me in why we're acting like this is some kind of hot #### revelation?

Nothing changed. The Wells report is still bull####, Brady is still guilty according to the NFL for being aware of ball deflation that may have never happened and for not cooperating, which the NFLPA is pretty convinced Brady did everything he was required of.

Why did Brady destroy his phone?

If he didn't need to turn it over...why do you think he destroyed?

I keep reading about people saying the NFL never asked for his phone. So...if he never had to turn it over why would he destroy it?

Because he's not very bright.

Destroying his phone is literally the stupidest imaginable thing that he could have done. I mean that completely literally. I've had a few hours to mull it over, and I cannot come up with a dumber thing to do than to destroy your phone after you've already been informed that Wells wanted to see some of your electronic communication.

 

[The General]

There needs to be a go to, boilerplate response by Brady lovers as to why Brady destroyed the phone.

What is it so we can begin that circular argument?

 

[The Duff Man]

Reading up on the AP thing, he did get his suspension overruled......in Feb. A lot of good that did him.

According to what I read the courts will not speed things up for celebrities or athletes who arent satisfied with the CBA they signed.

This is what David was saying, Tom may win....but he will still have served the suspension.

What can Tom argue that AP didn't. Loss of reputation? That didnt work for AP. The process was unfair? Uh...AP tried that too....precedent dictates that an unfair process doesnt get NFL players an injunction, just a win after the fact.

It seems likely a judge will hear their case.....in Nov...and if Tom wins he will be monitarily compensated for the time he missed...and that is that.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

The breakdowns by Steelers fans in here are going to be priceless when the Patriots STILL beat the Steelers in week one with Jimmy Garoppolo

Garoppolo! D'Angelo! It's the NFL on NBC!

P.S. Patriots are still 3 point favorites. I wouldn't be at all stunned if NE still won.

 

[SIDA!]

IvanK

I agree that it was a dumb move. I am shocked he didn't destroy it the week the incident came to light in the first place.

 

[Run It Up]

There needs to be a go to, boilerplate response by Brady lovers as to why Brady didn't turn over information from his phone.

Because he is not required to. -NE Patriots, Tom Brady, NFLPA, Brady Lovers

There needs to be a go to, boilerplate response by Brady lovers as to why Brady destroyed the phone.

Because he felt like it. -Run It Up (Doctor of Bradyology and self described Bradyonomist)

 

[SIDA!]

There needs to be a go to, boilerplate response by Brady lovers as to why Brady destroyed the phone.

What is it so we can begin that circular argument?

Not a Brady lover, but would like to see the reverse as well from those who hate Brady.

Why does it matter if he destroyed his phone if he didn't have to turn it over and only had to submit documents/texts pertaining to the incident?

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Why did Brady destroy his phone?

Cause he felt like it?

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_KBaB_Jc_mk

 

[Shutout]

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 20m20 minutes ago

Habit or not, if Brady destroyed the phone with awareness of the pending request to review its contents, that's a problem.

Can someone find out something about the "habit" bit? Not seeing anything...

if I were a celebrity and had his kind of money, I would absolutely destroy my old phone when I was done with it.

This is a no-brainer. If you have the money he does and the wife he does, believe me...NOBODY is going to get within ten feet of your phone cause you know what kinda stuff is on that thing. TMZ would have ALL kinds of pics by tomorrow.Think about it, none of us are Tom Brady, probably don't have his wealth or a wife and lifestyle like he does and still, how many of us would want to let a stranger look through our phone all they want?

Elaborate. Are you saying that you know that there is very incriminating evidence (or was) on that phone? I guess that's what I have an issue with. If there is nothing to hide, why not show that? I don't have anything to hide, I wouldn't have an issue with a professional (not a "stranger") looking through my phone and giving it back to me. They're going to see pictures of my pets and kid, and that I called my wife. Maybe I'm boring....

No, I know nothing that is on his phone but I know that any shred of information belonging to high-profile people that can be manipulated in any way to drum up a news buzz and spun negatively often is. And I know that a high profile person combined with out of context and circumstantial information combined with the NFL that seemingly can't protect an ounce of information that is supposed to be confidential is a bad recipe. Think about your phone. Maybe some of us are boring and nothing EVER happens. But for many people, there are texts that you'd prefer others not know about. There might be pics. There may be unsolicited information (but you still got it). I'm not saying he cheats on his wife. I'm not saying he did or didn't do the deflate. But I CAN have an open enough mind to understand that in a person's phone, aside from many private items (financial, photographic, messages), there might be something as simple as a few conversations he had with other players about his real thoughts on Aaron Hernandez and what he knew...or a game plan..or a business venture...or any of a number of things that might make a man say "I can't let the entire world see this". It doesn't have to be something sinister..It could be anything. Maybe his wife cheated on HIM and they are reconciling and want to keep it on the down low and he doesn't want info with his marriage counselor out there.

You just never know but I find it completely reasonable that the vast majority of people in life that don't have a fraction of Tom Brady's lifestyle, might be reluctant to turn over their private information, on the principle of privacy and on the principle of not trusting it won't get leaked.

I'm being serious: dobyou not understand that Wells did nor ask for physical possession of the phone? He asked for copies of relevant texts. So any pics, game plans discussion about Hernandez, info about his wife's cheating, etc wouldn't have gone public unless he decided to put it our there.

Understood completely. I'm asking you to understand that people have trust issues and the NFL has a record of letting things get out. Bad things. Drug test things. Things that are not supposed to get out.. But the fact is they do and once they are, you can't take them back. And we don't know the nature of the Gooodell office/Tom Brady relationship. Brady might jus tbe a buyer of conspiracy theory enough to think "I'll give this to them and they won't find crap. But then next week, somehow, lo and behold, all those pics of Gisele on the beach or all those texts of me ragging on Peyton will surface on TMZ...mysteriously." This is about trust and its obvious the NFL deserves little in how they have handled and reacted to sensitive information.

See my previous post about how Brady didn't need to trust the NFL, b/c he could control what Wells got. so no Giselle pics or texts ragging Peyton could have surfaced. You're making a baseless argument, because there is no basis for Brady to refuse to have chosen to provide copies of texts (AGAIN-NOT HIS ACTUAL PHONE!), or to destroy his phone at that exact time.

You speak as if the NFL can be trusted. Tom Brady has watched this league, many times, leak info that was not supposed to be leaked. On drug infractions, personnel info, knowledge of infractions, etc. Why on Earth would he trust an organization that has repeatedly demonstrated failure to maintain privacy.

If you had Aids, would you go to the doctor that is literally in the news every year for having leaked patient info? No. You would not.

What could the NFL have leaked? They were only going to get what Brady gave them! If he didn't give them pics of his dog licking peanut butter off his toes, then the NFL couldn't have leaked those pics. I'm not speaking as if the NFL can ce trusted, I'm stating THE FACT that Beady didn't need to trust the NFL, he only had to trust himself not to give them anything that was worth leaking.

Like I stated earlier, it's not that simple. This is a catch 22 from the start. The NFL asked and he says no. Guilty by perception.

The league asks and he says yes and nothing is garnered. Guilty by "we weren't provided with everything." So they ask for more and more until it becomes uncomrtable in how much privacy is devulged and the defendant says no more. Then it's guilt by non cooperation.

Brady can't win in the court of perception unless he gives everything and that is unreasonable. Nobody feels comfortable putting their entire life under a microscope for literally the entire world to view.

I have seen cases where people (the plaintiff) was asked to proved copies of their resumes, personal journals, vacation pictures and videos, minutes from volunteer groups, church outings, etc, so that the defense can examine to see if the injury is legit or if maybe they aren't as hurt as they say. At that point, it's emotionally gut wrenching for the plaintiff because they are literally being undressed in front of the the court room. Here, look at this picture of the plaintiff in their swim wear at a pool. Does she look to be in pain, jury.

It simply becomes psychological warfare. If you comply, you are mortified. If you refuse, you are perception ally guilty.

"So you say your injury limits you and you take medication. Tell us, how has your sex life been impacted?" This stuff looks innocent and clear cut on the surface but if you don't work in the legal system or haven't been part of a suit, you have NO idea how dirty people play.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

There needs to be a go to, boilerplate response by Brady lovers as to why Brady destroyed the phone.

What is it so we can begin that circular argument?

Not a Brady lover, but would like to see the reverse as well from those who hate Brady.

Why does it matter if he destroyed his phone if he didn't have to turn it over and only had to submit documents/texts pertaining to the incident?

This is pretty straightforward.

"They want to see my texts to our equipment guys? Oh ####. Can't let that happen. Better get rid of this phone."

Yes, he's that stupid. Occam's razor.

 

[SIDA!]

I love all all the Brady/Pats haters are whining about Brady destroying the phone at the same time stating that the NFL never asked for him to turn the phone over...just any texts that were applicable.

The same phone that was destroyed months after the event in question...instead of...oh geeez, I dunno...the day after the incident came out when you would think the actual incriminating stuff was on there.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I love all all the Brady/Pats haters are whining about Brady destroying the phone at the same time stating that the NFL never asked for him to turn the phone over...just any texts that were applicable.

The same phone that was destroyed months after the event in question...instead of...oh geeez, I dunno...the day after the incident came out when you would think the actual incriminating stuff was on there.

He trashed it right before he met with Wells.

 

[SIDA!]

There needs to be a go to, boilerplate response by Brady lovers as to why Brady destroyed the phone.

What is it so we can begin that circular argument?

Not a Brady lover, but would like to see the reverse as well from those who hate Brady.

Why does it matter if he destroyed his phone if he didn't have to turn it over and only had to submit documents/texts pertaining to the incident?

This is pretty straightforward.

"They want to see my texts to our equipment guys? Oh ####. Can't let that happen. Better get rid of this phone."

Yes, he's that stupid. Occam's razor.

"Oh ####...they want to see my texts that I sent to the equipment guys back in January. I better wait until March to get rid of that damn thing. Even though the league told me they don't need to see my actual cell phone..I should probably destroy it just in case."

Seems legit.

 

[The General]

Anyone mind clueing me in why we're acting like this is some kind of hot #### revelation?

Nothing changed. The Wells report is still bull####, Brady is still guilty according to the NFL for being aware of ball deflation that may have never happened and for not cooperating, which the NFLPA is pretty convinced Brady did everything he was required of.

Why did Brady destroy his phone?

Cause he felt like it? What does that change? Brady have some sort of super phone that wasn't connected to a service provider? Are his records not obtainable by a court if subpoenaed. Did the NFL think Brady was gonna for some reason hand over his phone records at the appeal?

Do you think it would have changed a ####### thing if he had turned over his records?

Goodell had one option and now they will go to court and a truly neutral third party will decide whether Brady will get his injuction and whether Goodell acted outside of the CBA.

The NFL doesn't have the ability to subpoena Brady's phone for this thing. They are depending on player's cooperation.

You think Brady will turn over the texts at any point?

 

[The General]

There needs to be a go to, boilerplate response by Brady lovers as to why Brady didn't turn over information from his phone.

Because he is not required to. -NE Patriots, Tom Brady, NFLPA, Brady Lovers

There needs to be a go to, boilerplate response by Brady lovers as to why Brady destroyed the phone.

Because he felt like it. -Run It Up (Doctor of Bradyology and self described Bradyonomist)

Seems like a what a guilty person does.

 

[SIDA!]

I love all all the Brady/Pats haters are whining about Brady destroying the phone at the same time stating that the NFL never asked for him to turn the phone over...just any texts that were applicable.

The same phone that was destroyed months after the event in question...instead of...oh geeez, I dunno...the day after the incident came out when you would think the actual incriminating stuff was on there.

He trashed it right before he met with Wells.

I agree the timing looks bad. But if you are never asked to turn over your phone, it shouldn't matter when.

Last time I checked...they had text messages from the equipment staff that Brady sent them.

 

[SIDA!]

There needs to be a go to, boilerplate response by Brady lovers as to why Brady didn't turn over information from his phone.

Because he is not required to. -NE Patriots, Tom Brady, NFLPA, Brady Lovers

There needs to be a go to, boilerplate response by Brady lovers as to why Brady destroyed the phone.

Because he felt like it. -Run It Up (Doctor of Bradyology and self described Bradyonomist)

Seems like a what a guilty person does.

Is taking the 5th and not testifying on the stand something a guilty person does?

 

[SIDA!]

Anyone mind clueing me in why we're acting like this is some kind of hot #### revelation?

Nothing changed. The Wells report is still bull####, Brady is still guilty according to the NFL for being aware of ball deflation that may have never happened and for not cooperating, which the NFLPA is pretty convinced Brady did everything he was required of.

Why did Brady destroy his phone?

Cause he felt like it? What does that change? Brady have some sort of super phone that wasn't connected to a service provider? Are his records not obtainable by a court if subpoenaed. Did the NFL think Brady was gonna for some reason hand over his phone records at the appeal?

Do you think it would have changed a ####### thing if he had turned over his records?

Goodell had one option and now they will go to court and a truly neutral third party will decide whether Brady will get his injuction and whether Goodell acted outside of the CBA.

The NFL doesn't have the ability to subpoena Brady's phone for this thing. They are depending on player's cooperation.

You think Brady will turn over the texts at any point?

The NFL said they would take Tom and his attorneys at their word that they turned over everything. If it is good enough for The Shield, why isn't it good enough for you?

So, Tom didn't turn over any documents that implicated him of being guilty of anything and then he destroyed his phone months after the incident.

Clearly shows that no matter what happened the league was set on suspending him regardless.

 

[GregR]

There needs to be a go to, boilerplate response by Brady lovers as to why Brady destroyed the phone.

What is it so we can begin that circular argument?

Video of the Rams Super Bowl walk through.

 

[sho nuff]

But I do think the NFL is arbitrary in how it handles situations and think the commissioner is more of a tyrannical dictator than an impartial arbiter.

Even if that's true, what motivation does Goodell have to unfairly lean in the way of guilt? The owner of the Patriots is one of his good friends. His brand doesn't want to see arguably its most popular and golden player stained with allegations of cheating, nor see its champion accused of the same.

Even if Goodell has way too much power in this to push his own motives, his own motives would point him in the direction of shoving this under the rug as much as possible. He only hurts himself by punishing Brady and the Pats, so to do so he must find the evidence very convincing. If it weren't, motives would dictate that he err on the side of Brady/New England being let off the hook, not on the side of them being punished.

It must be amazingly hard to have such a myopic view of things. Roger Goodall and the NFL are lobbying HARD to grow the NFL into unsaturated markets outside the NFL. They MUST convince foreign lands that they are impartial and the playing field is fair. In this day and age, and in addition to the recent utter failure of the NFL to originally sanction anywhere near of a fair decision in the ray rice case, the NFL has to over compensate in every avenue they control to restore balance and the proper image they wish to display.Roger Goodell is the walking illustration of a 60 year old impotent man with a Porsche and a speedboat.

You really think those markets care if he is "fair" in player arbitration?

$$$ talks...they will beg him, not the other way around.

 

[Old Smiley]

Throwing your phone away when it hasn't fallen in the sink. Truly, these guys lead different lives...

 

[The General]

Anyone mind clueing me in why we're acting like this is some kind of hot #### revelation?

Nothing changed. The Wells report is still bull####, Brady is still guilty according to the NFL for being aware of ball deflation that may have never happened and for not cooperating, which the NFLPA is pretty convinced Brady did everything he was required of.

Why did Brady destroy his phone?

Cause he felt like it? What does that change? Brady have some sort of super phone that wasn't connected to a service provider? Are his records not obtainable by a court if subpoenaed. Did the NFL think Brady was gonna for some reason hand over his phone records at the appeal?

Do you think it would have changed a ####### thing if he had turned over his records?

Goodell had one option and now they will go to court and a truly neutral third party will decide whether Brady will get his injuction and whether Goodell acted outside of the CBA.

The NFL doesn't have the ability to subpoena Brady's phone for this thing. They are depending on player's cooperation.

You think Brady will turn over the texts at any point?

The NFL said they would take Tom and his attorneys at their word that they turned over everything. If it is good enough for The Shield, why isn't it good enough for you?

So, Tom didn't turn over any documents that implicated him of being guilty of anything and then he destroyed his phone months after the incident.

Clearly shows that no matter what happened the league was set on suspending him regardless.

Not really getting what your point is.

Read the Goodell response, the part regarding Tommy's cooperation, pages 11-12. The NFL lays out pretty clearly as to why they felt like Brady wasn't cooperating. If Brady wants to sue or whatever to keep this going I'm sure he can "win" eventually.

 

[sho nuff]

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 20m20 minutes ago

Habit or not, if Brady destroyed the phone with awareness of the pending request to review its contents, that's a problem.

Can someone find out something about the "habit" bit? Not seeing anything...

if I were a celebrity and had his kind of money, I would absolutely destroy my old phone when I was done with it.

This is a no-brainer. If you have the money he does and the wife he does, believe me...NOBODY is going to get within ten feet of your phone cause you know what kinda stuff is on that thing. TMZ would have ALL kinds of pics by tomorrow.Think about it, none of us are Tom Brady, probably don't have his wealth or a wife and lifestyle like he does and still, how many of us would want to let a stranger look through our phone all they want?

Elaborate. Are you saying that you know that there is very incriminating evidence (or was) on that phone? I guess that's what I have an issue with. If there is nothing to hide, why not show that? I don't have anything to hide, I wouldn't have an issue with a professional (not a "stranger") looking through my phone and giving it back to me. They're going to see pictures of my pets and kid, and that I called my wife. Maybe I'm boring....

No, I know nothing that is on his phone but I know that any shred of information belonging to high-profile people that can be manipulated in any way to drum up a news buzz and spun negatively often is. And I know that a high profile person combined with out of context and circumstantial information combined with the NFL that seemingly can't protect an ounce of information that is supposed to be confidential is a bad recipe. Think about your phone. Maybe some of us are boring and nothing EVER happens. But for many people, there are texts that you'd prefer others not know about. There might be pics. There may be unsolicited information (but you still got it). I'm not saying he cheats on his wife. I'm not saying he did or didn't do the deflate. But I CAN have an open enough mind to understand that in a person's phone, aside from many private items (financial, photographic, messages), there might be something as simple as a few conversations he had with other players about his real thoughts on Aaron Hernandez and what he knew...or a game plan..or a business venture...or any of a number of things that might make a man say "I can't let the entire world see this". It doesn't have to be something sinister..It could be anything. Maybe his wife cheated on HIM and they are reconciling and want to keep it on the down low and he doesn't want info with his marriage counselor out there.

You just never know but I find it completely reasonable that the vast majority of people in life that don't have a fraction of Tom Brady's lifestyle, might be reluctant to turn over their private information, on the principle of privacy and on the principle of not trusting it won't get leaked.

I'm being serious: dobyou not understand that Wells did nor ask for physical possession of the phone? He asked for copies of relevant texts. So any pics, game plans discussion about Hernandez, info about his wife's cheating, etc wouldn't have gone public unless he decided to put it our there.

Understood completely. I'm asking you to understand that people have trust issues and the NFL has a record of letting things get out. Bad things. Drug test things. Things that are not supposed to get out.. But the fact is they do and once they are, you can't take them back. And we don't know the nature of the Gooodell office/Tom Brady relationship. Brady might jus tbe a buyer of conspiracy theory enough to think "I'll give this to them and they won't find crap. But then next week, somehow, lo and behold, all those pics of Gisele on the beach or all those texts of me ragging on Peyton will surface on TMZ...mysteriously." This is about trust and its obvious the NFL deserves little in how they have handled and reacted to sensitive information.

See my previous post about how Brady didn't need to trust the NFL, b/c he could control what Wells got. so no Giselle pics or texts ragging Peyton could have surfaced. You're making a baseless argument, because there is no basis for Brady to refuse to have chosen to provide copies of texts (AGAIN-NOT HIS ACTUAL PHONE!), or to destroy his phone at that exact time.

You speak as if the NFL can be trusted. Tom Brady has watched this league, many times, leak info that was not supposed to be leaked. On drug infractions, personnel info, knowledge of infractions, etc. Why on Earth would he trust an organization that has repeatedly demonstrated failure to maintain privacy.

If you had Aids, would you go to the doctor that is literally in the news every year for having leaked patient info? No. You would not.

Again, his lawyer would control what info the league even received.

Why do you all keep forgetting that?

 

[Run It Up]

Throwing your phone away when it hasn't fallen in the sink. Truly, these guys lead different lives...

Ive saved multiple electronics from water and sugary drink damage, just to save a few bucks.

I once tried to save an $8 keyboard by taking it apart and wiping down the boards with vinegar.

 

[ratbast]

He wasn't ever going to turn over that phone. There is a reason that many assume is guilt, in the court of public media, but if his phone can be subpoenaed in an upcoming court-case, wouldn't everything be available?

He wasn't going to let that happen. His marriage or other things may further be plastered across the country.

Fight it to the death Tom.

 

[Bayhawks]

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 20m20 minutes ago

Habit or not, if Brady destroyed the phone with awareness of the pending request to review its contents, that's a problem.

Can someone find out something about the "habit" bit? Not seeing anything...

if I were a celebrity and had his kind of money, I would absolutely destroy my old phone when I was done with it.

This is a no-brainer. If you have the money he does and the wife he does, believe me...NOBODY is going to get within ten feet of your phone cause you know what kinda stuff is on that thing. TMZ would have ALL kinds of pics by tomorrow.Think about it, none of us are Tom Brady, probably don't have his wealth or a wife and lifestyle like he does and still, how many of us would want to let a stranger look through our phone all they want?

Elaborate. Are you saying that you know that there is very incriminating evidence (or was) on that phone? I guess that's what I have an issue with. If there is nothing to hide, why not show that? I don't have anything to hide, I wouldn't have an issue with a professional (not a "stranger") looking through my phone and giving it back to me. They're going to see pictures of my pets and kid, and that I called my wife. Maybe I'm boring....

No, I know nothing that is on his phone but I know that any shred of information belonging to high-profile people that can be manipulated in any way to drum up a news buzz and spun negatively often is. And I know that a high profile person combined with out of context and circumstantial information combined with the NFL that seemingly can't protect an ounce of information that is supposed to be confidential is a bad recipe. Think about your phone. Maybe some of us are boring and nothing EVER happens. But for many people, there are texts that you'd prefer others not know about. There might be pics. There may be unsolicited information (but you still got it). I'm not saying he cheats on his wife. I'm not saying he did or didn't do the deflate. But I CAN have an open enough mind to understand that in a person's phone, aside from many private items (financial, photographic, messages), there might be something as simple as a few conversations he had with other players about his real thoughts on Aaron Hernandez and what he knew...or a game plan..or a business venture...or any of a number of things that might make a man say "I can't let the entire world see this". It doesn't have to be something sinister..It could be anything. Maybe his wife cheated on HIM and they are reconciling and want to keep it on the down low and he doesn't want info with his marriage counselor out there.

You just never know but I find it completely reasonable that the vast majority of people in life that don't have a fraction of Tom Brady's lifestyle, might be reluctant to turn over their private information, on the principle of privacy and on the principle of not trusting it won't get leaked.

I'm being serious: dobyou not understand that Wells did nor ask for physical possession of the phone? He asked for copies of relevant texts. So any pics, game plans discussion about Hernandez, info about his wife's cheating, etc wouldn't have gone public unless he decided to put it our there.

Understood completely. I'm asking you to understand that people have trust issues and the NFL has a record of letting things get out. Bad things. Drug test things. Things that are not supposed to get out.. But the fact is they do and once they are, you can't take them back. And we don't know the nature of the Gooodell office/Tom Brady relationship. Brady might jus tbe a buyer of conspiracy theory enough to think "I'll give this to them and they won't find crap. But then next week, somehow, lo and behold, all those pics of Gisele on the beach or all those texts of me ragging on Peyton will surface on TMZ...mysteriously." This is about trust and its obvious the NFL deserves little in how they have handled and reacted to sensitive information.

See my previous post about how Brady didn't need to trust the NFL, b/c he could control what Wells got. so no Giselle pics or texts ragging Peyton could have surfaced. You're making a baseless argument, because there is no basis for Brady to refuse to have chosen to provide copies of texts (AGAIN-NOT HIS ACTUAL PHONE!), or to destroy his phone at that exact time.

You speak as if the NFL can be trusted. Tom Brady has watched this league, many times, leak info that was not supposed to be leaked. On drug infractions, personnel info, knowledge of infractions, etc. Why on Earth would he trust an organization that has repeatedly demonstrated failure to maintain privacy.

If you had Aids, would you go to the doctor that is literally in the news every year for having leaked patient info? No. You would not.

What could the NFL have leaked? They were only going to get what Brady gave them! If he didn't give them pics of his dog licking peanut butter off his toes, then the NFL couldn't have leaked those pics. I'm not speaking as if the NFL can ce trusted, I'm stating THE FACT that Beady didn't need to trust the NFL, he only had to trust himself not to give them anything that was worth leaking.

Like I stated earlier, it's not that simple. This is a catch 22 from the start. The NFL asked and he says no. Guilty by perception.

The league asks and he says yes and nothing is garnered. Guilty by "we weren't provided with everything." So they ask for more and more until it becomes uncomrtable in how much privacy is devulged and the defendant says no more. Then it's guilt by non cooperation.

Brady can't win in the court of perception unless he gives everything and that is unreasonable. Nobody feels comfortable putting their entire life under a microscope for literally the entire world to view.

I have seen cases where people (the plaintiff) was asked to proved copies of their resumes, personal journals, vacation pictures and videos, minutes from volunteer groups, church outings, etc, so that the defense can examine to see if the injury is legit or if maybe they aren't as hurt as they say. At that point, it's emotionally gut wrenching for the plaintiff because they are literally being undressed in front of the the court room. Here, look at this picture of the plaintiff in their swim wear at a pool. Does she look to be in pain, jury.

It simply becomes psychological warfare. If you comply, you are mortified. If you refuse, you are perception ally guilty.

"So you say your injury limits you and you take medication. Tell us, how has your sex life been impacted?" This stuff looks innocent and clear cut on the surface but if you don't work in the legal system or haven't been part of a suit, you have NO idea how dirty people play.

That's a different argument. To be frank, its one Brady lost the right to make when he refused to cooperate. He can't claim that Wells wouldn't have accepted his word that he turned all texts over b\c he chose not to turn anything over. Then he made it so that those texts could never be recovered. Any argument that he was protecting his privacybis total BS.

 

[sho nuff]

There needs to be a go to, boilerplate response by Brady lovers as to why Brady destroyed the phone.

What is it so we can begin that circular argument?

Not a Brady lover, but would like to see the reverse as well from those who hate Brady.Why does it matter if he destroyed his phone if he didn't have to turn it over and only had to submit documents/texts pertaining to the incident?

I dont hate him.

He destroyed it because he was scared of what may be on it and he knows he was guilty.

 

[SIDA!]

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 20m20 minutes ago

Habit or not, if Brady destroyed the phone with awareness of the pending request to review its contents, that's a problem.

Can someone find out something about the "habit" bit? Not seeing anything...

if I were a celebrity and had his kind of money, I would absolutely destroy my old phone when I was done with it.

This is a no-brainer. If you have the money he does and the wife he does, believe me...NOBODY is going to get within ten feet of your phone cause you know what kinda stuff is on that thing. TMZ would have ALL kinds of pics by tomorrow.Think about it, none of us are Tom Brady, probably don't have his wealth or a wife and lifestyle like he does and still, how many of us would want to let a stranger look through our phone all they want?

Elaborate. Are you saying that you know that there is very incriminating evidence (or was) on that phone? I guess that's what I have an issue with. If there is nothing to hide, why not show that? I don't have anything to hide, I wouldn't have an issue with a professional (not a "stranger") looking through my phone and giving it back to me. They're going to see pictures of my pets and kid, and that I called my wife. Maybe I'm boring....

No, I know nothing that is on his phone but I know that any shred of information belonging to high-profile people that can be manipulated in any way to drum up a news buzz and spun negatively often is. And I know that a high profile person combined with out of context and circumstantial information combined with the NFL that seemingly can't protect an ounce of information that is supposed to be confidential is a bad recipe. Think about your phone. Maybe some of us are boring and nothing EVER happens. But for many people, there are texts that you'd prefer others not know about. There might be pics. There may be unsolicited information (but you still got it). I'm not saying he cheats on his wife. I'm not saying he did or didn't do the deflate. But I CAN have an open enough mind to understand that in a person's phone, aside from many private items (financial, photographic, messages), there might be something as simple as a few conversations he had with other players about his real thoughts on Aaron Hernandez and what he knew...or a game plan..or a business venture...or any of a number of things that might make a man say "I can't let the entire world see this". It doesn't have to be something sinister..It could be anything. Maybe his wife cheated on HIM and they are reconciling and want to keep it on the down low and he doesn't want info with his marriage counselor out there.

You just never know but I find it completely reasonable that the vast majority of people in life that don't have a fraction of Tom Brady's lifestyle, might be reluctant to turn over their private information, on the principle of privacy and on the principle of not trusting it won't get leaked.

I'm being serious: dobyou not understand that Wells did nor ask for physical possession of the phone? He asked for copies of relevant texts. So any pics, game plans discussion about Hernandez, info about his wife's cheating, etc wouldn't have gone public unless he decided to put it our there.

Understood completely. I'm asking you to understand that people have trust issues and the NFL has a record of letting things get out. Bad things. Drug test things. Things that are not supposed to get out.. But the fact is they do and once they are, you can't take them back. And we don't know the nature of the Gooodell office/Tom Brady relationship. Brady might jus tbe a buyer of conspiracy theory enough to think "I'll give this to them and they won't find crap. But then next week, somehow, lo and behold, all those pics of Gisele on the beach or all those texts of me ragging on Peyton will surface on TMZ...mysteriously." This is about trust and its obvious the NFL deserves little in how they have handled and reacted to sensitive information.

See my previous post about how Brady didn't need to trust the NFL, b/c he could control what Wells got. so no Giselle pics or texts ragging Peyton could have surfaced. You're making a baseless argument, because there is no basis for Brady to refuse to have chosen to provide copies of texts (AGAIN-NOT HIS ACTUAL PHONE!), or to destroy his phone at that exact time.

You speak as if the NFL can be trusted. Tom Brady has watched this league, many times, leak info that was not supposed to be leaked. On drug infractions, personnel info, knowledge of infractions, etc.Why on Earth would he trust an organization that has repeatedly demonstrated failure to maintain privacy.

If you had Aids, would you go to the doctor that is literally in the news every year for having leaked patient info? No. You would not.

Again, his lawyer would control what info the league even received.

Why do you all keep forgetting that?

Nobody is forgetting.

WHY DO YOU NEED THE ACTUAL PHONE WHEN THE NFL SAYS WE WILL LET YOUR LAWYER CONTROL WHAT INFO WE RECEIVE?

You don't need the phone. So why are you and others so wrapped up on lampooning Brady for destroying his phone at the same time mocking those of us for supposedly "not getting it"?

This is just a red herring thrown out there by the league to win the public relations battle. And it is a shrewd move on their part.

 

[David Dodds]

It all boils down to this to me...

How can we trust Brady when he clearly doesn't honor his cell contract?

 

[sho nuff]

We are beating him up because its the sign of a guilty person who was afraid what may have happened.

That you and others excuse it as nothing is hilarious..as is calling anyone that thinks he is guilty a pats/Brady hater.