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Patriots being investigated after Colts game (3 Viewers)

Percent of NFL teams actively trying to steal play sheets?

  • 0%

    Votes: 90 33.0%
  • 25%

    Votes: 91 33.3%
  • 50%

    Votes: 19 7.0%
  • 75%

    Votes: 16 5.9%
  • 100%

    Votes: 57 20.9%

  • Total voters
    273
Re: Kraft.

History didn't end yesterday. There are ways for Kraft to get back at the league if he feels truly injured. They tell me Kraft was instrumental in getting Roger in; well, he can be instrumental in getting him out too. And Roger has done a lot in the last seven months to help that along.
It would take a 3/4 majority vote of the owners to oust Goodell. Given that at least that many teams are anti Patriots, I see little chance of that happening. The owners went from rich to filthy rich under Goodell's watch. He's not going anywhere unless he voluntarily steps down, and why would he forgo a job paying him $44 million a year.
so silly.
Why is this silly? There were teams/owners that wanted BB suspended for the year and TB12 suspended 8 games over Deflategate. The major of the league owners do not care for NE. I really doubt they would oust Goodell for taking a hard line . . . which is what they told him to do.

 
Re: Kraft.

History didn't end yesterday. There are ways for Kraft to get back at the league if he feels truly injured. They tell me Kraft was instrumental in getting Roger in; well, he can be instrumental in getting him out too. And Roger has done a lot in the last seven months to help that along.
It would take a 3/4 majority vote of the owners to oust Goodell. Given that at least that many teams are anti Patriots, I see little chance of that happening. The owners went from rich to filthy rich under Goodell's watch. He's not going anywhere unless he voluntarily steps down, and why would he forgo a job paying him $44 million a year.
so silly.
Why is this silly? There were teams/owners that wanted BB suspended for the year and TB12 suspended 8 games over Deflategate. The major of the league owners do not care for NE. I really doubt they would oust Goodell for taking a hard line . . . which is what they told him to do.
I don't think they'll oust Goodell. It was the bold text I find silly and it smacks of typical NE fan arrogance. The Patriots are just not as important as you think.

 
“Meanwhile, the commissioner of the NFL was just laid out by a federal judge. The commissioner lied, the commissioner cheated, the commissioner deceived, and it’s right there for you in black and white. And you still want to talk about what you think Tom Brady did in a back room of Gillette Stadium? Stop it. You’re either being intentionally obtuse or you’re just a jackass. So just stop it.”
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/09/04/hurley-if-youre-still-hung-up-on-brady-being-guilty-you-are-an-idiot/

:wub:

 
Re: Kraft.

History didn't end yesterday. There are ways for Kraft to get back at the league if he feels truly injured. They tell me Kraft was instrumental in getting Roger in; well, he can be instrumental in getting him out too. And Roger has done a lot in the last seven months to help that along.
It would take a 3/4 majority vote of the owners to oust Goodell. Given that at least that many teams are anti Patriots, I see little chance of that happening. The owners went from rich to filthy rich under Goodell's watch. He's not going anywhere unless he voluntarily steps down, and why would he forgo a job paying him $44 million a year.
so silly.
Why is this silly? There were teams/owners that wanted BB suspended for the year and TB12 suspended 8 games over Deflategate. The major of the league owners do not care for NE. I really doubt they would oust Goodell for taking a hard line . . . which is what they told him to do.
I don't think they'll oust Goodell. It was the bold text I find silly and it smacks of typical NE fan arrogance. The Patriots are just not as important as you think.
I am not saying the Patriots are more important than 31 other teams. But there are 31 other owners that seem to have the Patriots messing with their heads, many of which that want the book thrown at them.

 
Love that, and yet you've still got the New bloody York Times with this:

I tend to think that the Wells report was more right than wrong when it concluded that it was “more probable than not” that two Patriots employees deliberately released air from Patriots game balls last January when New England routed Indianapolis and advanced to the Super Bowl. I also tend to agree that Brady at the very least had some cursory knowledge that air was being taken out of the footballs he was using.
And to that I would say, based on what? You're basing your conclusions on your preconceptions. All you have for evidence is Wells. All you have is the prosecutions case. And it's worse than that, because not only is it solely the prosecutions case as it would be in court, but any teeny weeny case the defense got to make was filtered back through the prosecution!

 
It's all there! Black and white, clear as crystal! You STOLE Fizzy-Lifting Drinks! You BUMPED into the ceiling, which now has to be washed and sterilized, so you get... NOTHING!!! You lose! GOOD DAY, SIR!

Get ####ed Godger.

 
As a long suffering Texans fan I cannot understand the amount of fans disregard the greatness of Brady. You have the opportunity to watch one of the greats but your jealousy and hate keep you from enjoying watching history in the making.

Having had to sit and watch Hoyer, Fitzpatrick, Keenum, Schaub and Carr I appreciate watching a legend play. There are 2 teams I will watch besides the Texans, the Patriots and the Broncos because of their quarterbacks.

I despise Manning personally but always appreciate and watch him with awe as he carves up defenses on a regular basis.

I think the Patriots organization is the best in the NFL from top to bottom.

 
Roger Cossack goes after DeMaurice Smith for the NFLPA's decisions during the CBA negotiating and the decision to appeal Brady's suspension.

“So you’re saying to me that you agreed to let Roger Goodell be the arbiter and the reviewer of his own decision, but implicit in that decision was that he was going to act fairly?” Cossack replied. “Come on.”

“If you are confused, I would urge you to open the cases about industrial due process,” Smith said.

“And I have, Judge Berman agrees with you, I’ll give you that,” Cossack said.

“Well you don’t have to give me anything, Roger. Read the law,” Smith said. “We didn’t let Roger Goodell do this.”
 
As a long suffering Texans fan I cannot understand the amount of fans disregard the greatness of Brady. You have the opportunity to watch one of the greats but your jealousy and hate keep you from enjoying watching history in the making.

Having had to sit and watch Hoyer, Fitzpatrick, Keenum, Schaub and Carr I appreciate watching a legend play. There are 2 teams I will watch besides the Texans, the Patriots and the Broncos because of their quarterbacks.

I despise Manning personally but always appreciate and watch him with awe as he carves up defenses on a regular basis.

I think the Patriots organization is the best in the NFL from top to bottom.
Sure. :shrug:

I respect him like I do Barry Bonds in baseball. Both amazing, HOF talents who had absolutely no need to cheat to get ahead, but chose to anyway. If those guys chose to get it done as best as possible on the field of play, no matter what methodology they had to employ, then that's got to be a choice they can live with at the expense of their legacy. I wouldn't say either stance is absolutely "right" or "wrong."

 
As a long suffering Texans fan I cannot understand the amount of fans disregard the greatness of Brady. You have the opportunity to watch one of the greats but your jealousy and hate keep you from enjoying watching history in the making.

Having had to sit and watch Hoyer, Fitzpatrick, Keenum, Schaub and Carr I appreciate watching a legend play. There are 2 teams I will watch besides the Texans, the Patriots and the Broncos because of their quarterbacks.

I despise Manning personally but always appreciate and watch him with awe as he carves up defenses on a regular basis.

I think the Patriots organization is the best in the NFL from top to bottom.
Sure. :shrug:

I respect him like I do Barry Bonds in baseball. Both amazing, HOF talents who had absolutely no need to cheat to get ahead, but chose to anyway. If those guys chose to get it done as best as possible on the field of play, no matter what methodology they had to employ, then that's got to be a choice they can live with at the expense of their legacy. I wouldn't say either stance is absolutely "right" or "wrong."
I did not realize Manning cheated, link?

We all know that Brady did not cheat.

Trying to equate Manning to Bonds is ridiculous. I would equate Rice (spousal abuser) or Peterson (child abuser), Roth (Rapist), Ray Lewis (murderer) with Bonds.

 
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Brady update on facebook:

"The regular season starts tomorrow morning and I can’t wait to fully commit my energy and emotion to focus on the challenges of the 2015 NFL season. I want to thank my family, my friends, all of the fans, past and current players and my teammates for the support they have given me throughout this challenging experience. I also want to thank Judge Berman and his staff for their efforts to resolve this matter over the past five weeks. I am very grateful. My thanks also to the union's legal team who has fought so hard right along with me. While I am pleased to be eligible to play, I am sorry our league had to endure this. I don’t think it has been good for our sport - to a large degree, we have all lost. I am also sorry to anyone whose feelings I may have hurt as I have tried to work to resolve this situation. I love the NFL. It is a privilege to be a member of the NFL community and I will always try to do my best in representing my team and the league in a way that would make all members of this community proud. I look forward to the competition on the playing field and I hope the attention of NFL fans can return to where it belongs - on the many great players and coaches who work so hard every week, and sacrifice so much, to make this game great. Most importantly, I look forward to representing the New England Patriots on Thursday night in our season opener. I hope to make all of our fans proud this year … and beyond!"
 
And here’s ESPN’s Jeffri Chadiha asserting that no appeals process can possibly “keep the taint off his legacy,” which evokes images of Chadiha smirkingly teabagging a printout of Brady’s career accomplishments. Where will the taint go, Tom? Will it go... on the legacy????

That's a quote from here.

 
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Serious questions about these ESPN legal people.
It's pretty clear that ESPN legal people are paid to be biased against Brady. Pretty sweet deal for someone like Lester Munson, who was once suspended from practicing law.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/08/21/espn-legal-analyst-declares-nfl-will-win-brady-case/

Don't forget that we had a "legal expert" on this thread who kept denying the obvious holes in the Wells Report (and who kept not-so-subtly reminding everyone that he was a real-life lawyer, by using plenty of latin/greek words from first-year law school books in each post :lol: ).

 
OJ was found not guilty as well. This didn't change the opinion of most. The same will be said about Brady...wrong or right, he will be guilty in the eyes of most. In 20 years....someone inside the Patriots organization is going to make millions writing a tell all book about the Do Your Job Patriots.

 
Brady update on facebook:

"The regular season starts tomorrow morning and I can’t wait to fully commit my energy and emotion to focus on the challenges of the 2015 NFL season. I want to thank my family, my friends, all of the fans, past and current players and my teammates for the support they have given me throughout this challenging experience. I also want to thank Judge Berman and his staff for their efforts to resolve this matter over the past five weeks. I am very grateful. My thanks also to the union's legal team who has fought so hard right along with me. While I am pleased to be eligible to play, I am sorry our league had to endure this. I don’t think it has been good for our sport - to a large degree, we have all lost. I am also sorry to anyone whose feelings I may have hurt as I have tried to work to resolve this situation. I love the NFL. It is a privilege to be a member of the NFL community and I will always try to do my best in representing my team and the league in a way that would make all members of this community proud. I look forward to the competition on the playing field and I hope the attention of NFL fans can return to where it belongs - on the many great players and coaches who work so hard every week, and sacrifice so much, to make this game great. Most importantly, I look forward to representing the New England Patriots on Thursday night in our season opener. I hope to make all of our fans proud this year … and beyond!"
I'm guessing he didn't get a "like" from Gisele on this. Shoot, Kessler probably hit the "Post" button...

 
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OJ was found not guilty as well. This didn't change the opinion of most. The same will be said about Brady...wrong or right, he will be guilty in the eyes of most. In 20 years....someone inside the Patriots organization is going to make millions writing a tell all book about the Do Your Job Patriots.
Comparing what OJ did to Brady? Yea OK.

 
OJ was found not guilty as well. This didn't change the opinion of most. The same will be said about Brady...wrong or right, he will be guilty in the eyes of most. In 20 years....someone inside the Patriots organization is going to make millions writing a tell all book about the Do Your Job Patriots.
I encourage you to read more about the history of the NFL. Start with the team that you follow.

 
I've been following a Twitter beat writers list during cut downs, and the disconnect between the Boston beats and Pats fans, and the rest of the known universe is something to behold.

No schtick... they honestly believe that because Goodell overreached that Brady is exonerated and won't be remembered as a cheater.

 
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I've been following a Twitter beat writers list during cut downs, and the disconnect between the Boston beats and Pats fans, and the rest of the known universe is something to behold.

No schtick... they honestly believe that because Goodell overreached that Brady is exonerated and won't be remembered as a cheater.
I guess blindness works both ways. It is hard to be comfortable with a process that presupposes guilt.

 
Some balls deflated on a cold day

A guy whose job involves inflating and deflating footballs sent texts about inflating and deflating footballs

A federal judge scoffed at the independent investigation and put independent in quotes repeatedly in his judgement

A hall of fame coach, player and owner all raised the stakes on the investigation by publicly and vehemently denying it

A player asked if he had to share his phone, was told no, then got a new iPhone

I mean, the evidence is staggering when you look at it.

 
Some balls deflated on a cold day

A guy whose job involves inflating and deflating footballs sent texts about inflating and deflating footballs

A federal judge scoffed at the independent investigation and put independent in quotes repeatedly in his judgement

A hall of fame coach, player and owner all raised the stakes on the investigation by publicly and vehemently denying it

A player asked if he had to share his phone, was told no, then got a new iPhone

I mean, the evidence is staggering when you look at it.
Has it ever been clearly laid out just what McNally's responsibilities were with the ball prep?

 
It's not a court of law. This is more than enough.
There are three sets of texts in there. The first one had the word deflator in it and a reference to going to espn. That one is the only meaningful one. The second is immediately after the overinflation debacle against the Jets when the refs set the balls to 16 and Brady went off. That is not even remotely close to evidence of a conspiracy to deflate footballs. It's literally only two people talking about getting yelled at and not setting them to 16.

The third is a set of texts talking about getting memorabilia. There is nothing in there about doing it in exchange for delaying balls below 12.5. The only reference to ball inflation is that the guy who manages air pressure makes a joke about inflating them to 16 psi again because it ticked Tom off so bad last time.

The idea that those prove anything is beyond a joke, always has been. It's only when you consider it as part of a larger pile of circumstantial evidence that it becomes meaningful. And as we've seen evident partiality on the past if the NFL and their "independent" investigation, that mountain of circumstantial evidence is looking like more of a molehill.

 
It's not a court of law. This is more than enough.
There are three sets of texts in there. The first one had the word deflator in it and a reference to going to espn. That one is the only meaningful one.
So give us the chowdahead spin on just that one then...
Without context? It's impossible. It certainly doesn't say that he's in charge if deflating footballs below 12.5. It seems to imply he knows something that would be bad if espn found out, but it doesn't say what. It could be any kind of dirt - maybe Brady threw a nostalgia #### into Bridget Moynihan. The leap you have to make to believe it had anything to do with football deflation is that he used the word "deflator" in a text nearby, but again, his job involves inflating and deflating footballs. A guy named smith probably has a great great great grand parent who was a blacksmith, and a guy named mason probably has a relative who worked with stone. Adam Sandler played a character whose nickname was the waterboy. It's not crazy to think that a guy who manages ball temperature would be nicknamed the inflator, and while i agree that the explanation sounded implausible at first, if it was a fat guy losing weight, maybe his nickname changed to the deflator. On a mountain of circumstantial evidence, this would have been one more big piece, but out of context it takes more spin to believe that this has anything to do with a long standing conspiracy to deflate footballs below 12.5 psi than something innocuous.

 
It's like, yes, the league has lied it's #### off non-stop forever but for one brief shining moment on the night of the AFC championship game they wielded the sword of truth. By God they got it right then.

I'm going to quote a fellow from the Metafilter thread on this issue:

....To step back a bit, the most interesting aspect of this saga (one which I had time to put together a full post for) is how propaganda has evolved in the internet age, and how effective it can still be. Deflategate at its heart is the same as the Birther movement, 9/11 Truther movement, Climate Change Denialist movement, and Putin's Little Green Men movement, and these all share a heritage going back to Goebbels and beyond.

From these, there are a lot of great (and frightening) lessons to learn about how to operate a successful propaganda / misinformation campaign:

Always take the initiative. People make their conclusions based on the first facts that they hear on a subject, and few are willing or able to re-evaluate those conclusions as contradicting information comes in.

As a corollary, "Breaking News" is the only type of news that will get noticed by people not following your story closely. It is also a scarce resource - it can by definition only ever happen once for any particular story. Ensuring that your message is the "Breaking News" ensures that your opponent's response will only ever be heard by a small fraction of the people, no mater how strong that response is.

"Manufacturing Consent" is an important ongoing part of this strategy. Build an ecosystem of media outlets that have a dependence on you for their own success. These outlets can and will be weaponized to push out your messages and to ignore your opponents'. Don't ignore modern media: back in the day, those that learned how to use newspapers, radio, film and TV first got a huge leg up; nowadays, media personalities that have Twitter followers count as their own media outlets.

It is better to have a lie that tells a compelling story than to rely solely on the truth. But even better than that is to have some fragment of truth that can be twisted in some way to fit the narrative. Look at the "The team fired the equipment people involved" above example, which I think was an excellent play by the NFL. Just Thursday, I saw this particular argument thrown at a a vehement Brady advocate on a national TV show covering the court case, who didn't know how to respond; he was fortunate that he was rescued by another participant who did know the full context of that argument.

There are plenty of other strategies and tactics to learn from this whole process, but I will jump straight to one last one that is perhaps the most important: Successful minorities make the best targets. I'm not going to go deep into historical parallels because they're quite obvious, but the interesting thing about this case is how well it works at multiple levels.

For non-Patriots NFL fans, Brady is the ultimate successful minority; 31 other teams have had to watch him and the Patriots win for the last 15 years, often when they've thought their own team was legitimately better. There's no better salve to the ego than to think that your own failures are a result of a long-running conspiracy rather than your own inadequacy or even worse, dumb luck. It doesn't hurt that he's rich and is married to a beautiful, rich, foreign model wife.

For people that aren't fans of the NFL, it works too. Tom Brady is hugely rich and successful because he had the fortune to win the genetic lottery to become a professional athlete. He's the 1%, all for playing a game rather than for doing something useful to society. Here on Metafilter, how many comments have we seen that say something like "I hate the NFL and maybe Brady is a victim, but there are other far worthier victims that I need to reserve my outrage for"?

These are all reasons why I hope people pay attention to this controversy. Not so much because of the outcome (though I am personally far too invested in that to be neutral) but because this is such a great example of how a propaganda war works in the modern world. There are lots of smart people watching and taking notes.
posted by Harvey Byrd at 7:44 AM on September 6
 
OJ was found not guilty as well. This didn't change the opinion of most. The same will be said about Brady...wrong or right, he will be guilty in the eyes of most. In 20 years....someone inside the Patriots organization is going to make millions writing a tell all book about the Do Your Job Patriots.
Comparing what OJ did to Brady? Yea OK.
Not the actions...just the perception of guilt by the masses.

 
OJ was found not guilty as well. This didn't change the opinion of most. The same will be said about Brady...wrong or right, he will be guilty in the eyes of most. In 20 years....someone inside the Patriots organization is going to make millions writing a tell all book about the Do Your Job Patriots.
I encourage you to read more about the history of the NFL. Start with the team that you follow.
ok?

 
OJ was found not guilty as well. This didn't change the opinion of most. The same will be said about Brady...wrong or right, he will be guilty in the eyes of most. In 20 years....someone inside the Patriots organization is going to make millions writing a tell all book about the Do Your Job Patriots.
Comparing what OJ did to Brady? Yea OK.
Not the actions...just the perception of guilt by the masses.
You are not the first to make the OJ comparison. I think you're only talking about the perception, but some aren't.

So here's my thing on that. In the Simpson case, there was clearly a terrible crime. There was a brutalized mutilated body. Murder had been done without a doubt.

In this case we have to accept the prosecution's claim that there was even a violation. It is no more than an allegation that the half time pressure in the footballs could not be accounted for naturally. The evidence for that claim, the claim that there was even a crime committed, is disputed. And from that questionable basis, everything is retrofitted with intent to build the case against the Patriots.

 
Nonetheless, Hairy and others who put that idea forward were right. The "verdict" will not change people's opinions. Whichever way it had gone. Count me in as believing he knew, was complicit, etc. Will never believe otherwise no matter how many posts his defenders make. It's like porn, you know it when you see it.

Was it blown out of proportion? Sure. Do I dislike Goodell? Sure, but did before all of this. If this ends him, fine with me. I don't really care why he goes, just that he goes.

 
Brady is standing by Jastremski and McNally. Good to see.

Edit to add: I still say the Patriots should formally and publicly request their reinstatement. The league will say no, but whatever.

 
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Did you guys not read Berman's decision? Or anything besides those texts in the last 9 months.

There was nothing. Not a single piece of evidence. Berman acknowledges this throughout the court case and in his decision.

The league had no idea about the ideal gas law and just decided the Pats cheated then lied and lied to put pieces into place.

You can claim the shield doesn't have to prove anything, you can claim the league doesn't have to be independent in their arbitration, you can claim they can impose whatever penalty they see fit to anything including alleged awareness... but the court disagrees.

 
It's really amazing what the Patriots have been able to accomplish in the salary cap era against the headwind of a commissioner who has docked them multiple firsts for transgressions that were later completely debunked.

 
It was all about the AFCCG, I think some forget that. The texts prove pretty conclusively that they were deflating footballs at some point, for some length of time, but this entire case was about that January game and whether or not balls were deflated then.

 
It was all about the AFCCG, I think some forget that. The texts prove pretty conclusively that they were deflating footballs at some point, for some length of time, but this entire case was about that January game and whether or not balls were deflated then.
The text with mention of deflation took place before the 2014 season, after that during the season balls were found to have been over inflated. If balls were being illegally tampered with post-inspection this wouldn't have been the case.During this time there are phone records that clearly indicate what Brady and Jastremski knew about the rules regarding inflation and explicit instructions to inflate balls to 12.5 and to present a copy of the rule to any official as to avoid the officials ####### with balls again. They had no reason to assume in September or October w/e that their private texts would be made public, no way to misconstrued that.

You can weave conspiracies based on a single text between two idiots if you want though.

 
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OJ was found not guilty as well. This didn't change the opinion of most. The same will be said about Brady...wrong or right, he will be guilty in the eyes of most. In 20 years....someone inside the Patriots organization is going to make millions writing a tell all book about the Do Your Job Patriots.
Comparing what OJ did to Brady? Yea OK.
Not the actions...just the perception of guilt by the masses.
You are not the first to make the OJ comparison. I think you're only talking about the perception, but some aren't.

So here's my thing on that. In the Simpson case, there was clearly a terrible crime. There was a brutalized mutilated body. Murder had been done without a doubt.

In this case we have to accept the prosecution's claim that there was even a violation. It is no more than an allegation that the half time pressure in the footballs could not be accounted for naturally. The evidence for that claim, the claim that there was even a crime committed, is disputed. And from that questionable basis, everything is retrofitted with intent to build the case against the Patriots.
Maybe I should have compared this with someone like Gaylord Perry who is a HOF pitcher who used a spitball.

 
OJ was found not guilty as well. This didn't change the opinion of most. The same will be said about Brady...wrong or right, he will be guilty in the eyes of most. In 20 years....someone inside the Patriots organization is going to make millions writing a tell all book about the Do Your Job Patriots.
Comparing what OJ did to Brady? Yea OK.
Not the actions...just the perception of guilt by the masses.
I can't imagine this perception holding among those with a shred of critical thought.

 
OJ was found not guilty as well. This didn't change the opinion of most. The same will be said about Brady...wrong or right, he will be guilty in the eyes of most. In 20 years....someone inside the Patriots organization is going to make millions writing a tell all book about the Do Your Job Patriots.
Comparing what OJ did to Brady? Yea OK.
Not the actions...just the perception of guilt by the masses.
I can't imagine this perception holding among those with a shred of critical thought.
The masses don't put as much time into thinking about this. They heard (right or wrong) that there was cheating. So I do believe that the masses think that Brady or the Pats cheated.
 
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skinsrule05 said:
matuski said:
HairySasquatch said:
GreekFreak said:
HairySasquatch said:
OJ was found not guilty as well. This didn't change the opinion of most. The same will be said about Brady...wrong or right, he will be guilty in the eyes of most. In 20 years....someone inside the Patriots organization is going to make millions writing a tell all book about the Do Your Job Patriots.
Comparing what OJ did to Brady? Yea OK.
Not the actions...just the perception of guilt by the masses.
I can't imagine this perception holding among those with a shred of critical thought.
The masses don't put as much time into thinking about this. They heard (right or wrong) that there was cheating. So I do believe that the masses think that Brady or the Pats cheated.
Maybe when the masses were watching in January, TB should have answered the question of whether he was a cheater with something more confident than "I don't believe so".

 
skinsrule05 said:
matuski said:
HairySasquatch said:
GreekFreak said:
HairySasquatch said:
OJ was found not guilty as well. This didn't change the opinion of most. The same will be said about Brady...wrong or right, he will be guilty in the eyes of most. In 20 years....someone inside the Patriots organization is going to make millions writing a tell all book about the Do Your Job Patriots.
Comparing what OJ did to Brady? Yea OK.
Not the actions...just the perception of guilt by the masses.
I can't imagine this perception holding among those with a shred of critical thought.
The masses don't put as much time into thinking about this. They heard (right or wrong) that there was cheating. So I do believe that the masses think that Brady or the Pats cheated.
Maybe when the masses were watching in January, TB should have answered the question of whether he was a cheater with something more confident than "I don't believe so".
The question was have you cheated. And he had no information because the league wouldn't tell them even what they thought he had done let alone the specifics.

It's a perfectly reasonable answer to unbiased ears.

 
skinsrule05 said:
matuski said:
HairySasquatch said:
GreekFreak said:
HairySasquatch said:
OJ was found not guilty as well. This didn't change the opinion of most. The same will be said about Brady...wrong or right, he will be guilty in the eyes of most. In 20 years....someone inside the Patriots organization is going to make millions writing a tell all book about the Do Your Job Patriots.
Comparing what OJ did to Brady? Yea OK.
Not the actions...just the perception of guilt by the masses.
I can't imagine this perception holding among those with a shred of critical thought.
The masses don't put as much time into thinking about this. They heard (right or wrong) that there was cheating. So I do believe that the masses think that Brady or the Pats cheated.
Maybe when the masses were watching in January, TB should have answered the question of whether he was a cheater with something more confident than "I don't believe so".
The question was have you cheated. And he had no information because the league wouldn't tell them even what they thought he had done let alone the specifics.

It's a perfectly reasonable answer to unbiased ears.
No. My wording was correct.

 

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