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Patriots being investigated after Colts game (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter HobbesAB
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Omniscient Deity
Footballguy
I dislike the Pats, but come on. This is just getting ridiculous now.
AngryPatriot
Footballguy
The Pats awesomeness and reign of excellence soils your britches- but you can't seem to admit it....
Anarchy99
Footballguy
The Patriots got punished in 2007 for not complying with the memo that was sent out the week before about where teams were and were not allowed to videotape from. THAT'S what they got busted for: arrogantly disregarding the notice that teams were told to stop doing what NE was doing. Essentially everything that happened before the game with the Jets was ignored. Doing what they did against New York is what got them rung up. They could have videotaped things for 400 games before the Jets game as far as Goodell was concerned. As I mentioned a couple of pages ago, if the league didn't want teams to videotape coaches and signals, they would have simply said there will be no videotaping of coaches and signals AT ALL, period, end of report. But they never said that and that's not what the Operations Manual says.
This all gets us back to the same issues I have with the NFL. The rulebook, CBA, Operations Manual, Code of Integrity, etc. are all really vague and often ambiguous as to what players and teams can and cannot do. The league has done a really poor job of explaining rules, policies, and penalties. And, of course, they seem to selectively ignore, enforce, or harshly enforce things based on the way the wind blows, who they like and don't like, and assign punishment inconsistently all the time.
I still haven't figured out how some substance abuse suspensions are 4 games. Some 3 games. Some 2 games. Some only a game. How exactly do they come up with their rulings? Same thing with player conduct violations, PED violations, and conduct unbecoming violations.
This all gets us back to the same issues I have with the NFL. The rulebook, CBA, Operations Manual, Code of Integrity, etc. are all really vague and often ambiguous as to what players and teams can and cannot do. The league has done a really poor job of explaining rules, policies, and penalties. And, of course, they seem to selectively ignore, enforce, or harshly enforce things based on the way the wind blows, who they like and don't like, and assign punishment inconsistently all the time.
I still haven't figured out how some substance abuse suspensions are 4 games. Some 3 games. Some 2 games. Some only a game. How exactly do they come up with their rulings? Same thing with player conduct violations, PED violations, and conduct unbecoming violations.
bostonfred
Footballguy
I voted no and 100%
dansav
Footballguy
Do people really think the patriots cheat?
Just like JuniorNB the patriots are in the minds of anyone who follow the NFL. Lol
Pats are now guilty of serving warm gatorades and bringing them out late..
This is awesome.
devouredbychaos
Footballguy
The salt is strong today. Broncos cheating the salary cap is worse than Spygate/Deflategate and anything else the Pats are getting accused of.
bostonfred
Footballguy
One time they had a guy wearing what looked like ordinary reading glasses but they had a funny mustache and eyebrows attached to them, too.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
That's nothing, I read on the wall of a mens room that the Pats actually resort to using VOODOO to cheat! Turns out their success has nothing to do with playing better than their opponents on the football field. That doesn't even touch on the the help they get from space aliens.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
Yeah, but to be fair people bring that up at least as often as ONE football off by 2psi.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
((Morpheus))
Footballguy
AngryPatriot
Footballguy
It's so pathetic this report comes out right after a huge court win for Brady and the Pats. The level the haters will go to to try to dent the Pats armor is pathetic. The levels the media will sink to to drum up and feed off of the animosity people have for the Pats knows no limit. Of course the lemmings get in line to follow it right off the cliff, so sad. Anyone or anything who is very successful in this culture automatically attracts haters and jealous detractors who'll do what they can to bring down the superior force, they can't stand to look at and manage their own lives but lose themselves in external distractions to the point of being ineffective- and the disturbance only grows.
Heck, I still hear the "tuck" rule brought up now and again. Good luck with that! lol
Heck, I still hear the "tuck" rule brought up now and again. Good luck with that! lol
It is crystal clear what the rule says here. Just because you think the rules say something else, doesn't make it so. Just like the Ravens, falsely accusing the Patriots of illegal formations that were perfectly legal.Again, that's what Belichek claimed, and they got punished severely for it. He misinterpreted a rule just like Pettite misremembered what Roger Clemens said and did.The article says:Your article does nothing like that. It references the same rule that Belichek says he misinterpreted that doesn't cover anything the Patriots were doing. They found a loophole and they exploited it, and the article goes into detail as to how and why.Dude, how hard is it provide a reference to a rule that you keep saying is there? You are like the Ravens falsely whining about the Patriots illegal formations.
Please provide a link to the supposed "rule" you say is there.
I've already provided a link before that clearly disputes your claim.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d802456c2/printable/belichick-speaks-with-goodell-apologizes-for-videotape-flap
But from the ESPN article today... while I don't own a copy of the NFL game operations manual and I'm certain it's not available via a google search, I'm going to trust that the NFL investigators did.
Walsh later told investigators that, at the time, he didn't know the NFL game operations manual forbade taping signals.
"Patriots under investigation for following rules, guidelines violations ...
1. Page 105 of the Game Operations manual says: "No video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game." It later says: "All video shooting locations must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead."
2. And, a memo from Ray Anderson, NFL head of football operations, to head coaches and GMs on Sept. 6, 2006 said: "Video taping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponents offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game."
The rules forbid taping from the sidelines. It allows taping from locations enclosed on all sides.
You claim the rules forbid taping signals completely. This is wrong. And you have provided zero proof of your rule.
Please provide proof of your rule, or stop spamming the board with false claims.
The proof is in the punishment and the league's reaction to it. If you want to go on believing they got punished that way for doing something legal from an illegal location, be my guest. I've learned over the years that there's no rhyme or reason when it comes to Patriot fans trying to justify what steps the team has taken over the years to gain a competitive advantage, whether it's by stretching or breaking the rules.
The rule was and always has been that taping game action is legal, and those rules are referencing that. Belicheck took it a step farther to try and justify his actions, but taping signals is not and has never been legal. You can try and steal signals, but once video-taping is involved, it becomes illegal. I remember reading an article back then about it, but I don't have the time to try and find it. That's not to say other teams haven't done it or tried it. Just that the Patriots got caught doing it and have continued on with an organizational sense of arrogance that pisses the rest of the league off.
I'm going to assume that you haven't read the article today, and that's OK. You might take 30 minutes out of your day to do it. It's a good read.
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I'd say it's about equal to the Barry Bonds hate when he was nearing the all-time home run record. People didn't just start hating cheaters recently.
Let's knock off the insults. If you can't find a way to express yourself without them, don't post.
dansav
Footballguy
Strange comparison to Bonds, since a federal judge declared there was no evidence of Brady cheating and then dismissed Brady's suspension.
"A skeptical Berman sounded unconvinced: "What is the evidence of a scheme or conspiracy that covers the Jan. 18 game? I'm having trouble finding it."
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/roger-goodell-greeted-boos-deflategate-hearing-article-1.2323018
Keep denying the truth!
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Over the years, there have been countless stories of what other teams have done to gain an advantage. IIRC, Jimmy Johnson, Bill Cowher, and I think Tony Dungy (if not other former coaches) all said it was common practice to search the opponent's locker room the second teams left it empty and headed to the field to uncover playbooks, play sheets, things left on the drawing board, and anything else teams were dumb enough to leave behind. Like no other team in the history of the NFL had locker room attendants coming in and out of the visitor's locker room trying to come up with some juicy game day tidbits.
People are making the Patriots out like they invented and were the only ones to ever try to gain intel on their opponents (or that they have been the only team to go about it in an underhanded manner).
People are making the Patriots out like they invented and were the only ones to ever try to gain intel on their opponents (or that they have been the only team to go about it in an underhanded manner).
dansav
Footballguy
I don't recall the patriots cheating recently or even when spy-gate went down and all teams were doing even john madden and bill parcels said it was common practice.But of corse blah blah blah pats cheat and take away there rings
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bostonfred
Footballguy
Guys this is different because it comes from ESPN and when have they been wrong about the Patriots except for saying the judge was going to rule for the nfl and grudgingly apologizing last week for misrepresenting facts that they were about to contradict in an otl piece
Cookiemonster
Footballguy
100% chance the NFL is cheating fans.
It's "their" rings, and I'm quite sure that dressing your camera guys up so that the other team thinks it's NFL Films is not common practice. I know that to be a Patriots fan, it's necessary to only see what you want to see and ignore any details that show what a slimy, cheating organization you're rooting for, but the way you bury your head in the sands is laughable.
Old Smiley
Footballguy
dansav
Footballguy
sho nuff
Footballguy
Bingo...denying how bad this article makes the Pats and NFL look is expected from fans who think their team can do not wrong at all.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Keep burying your head in the sand and pretending someone, other than Patriots fans, thinks those rings are legit.
There's an h at the end of Pittsburgh. And yes, people hate cheaters, So haters gonna hate. They hate Barry Bonds too. And ARod.
dansav
Footballguy
Those are individual players not a team. So do you hate Brady or the patriots or both. You gotta stick with one thing here bud. And you would make a great English teacher someday!
Basically this.
I completely believe most of the accusations leveled against the Patriots. I completely believe they were trying to get their hands on play sheets and playbooks. I believe that they used a player on IR during a practice. I don't have any evidence, but I don't find any of this the slightest bit implausible.
Similarly, I completely believe that the Broncos linemen were greasing up with vaseline, and Bill Walsh had his equipment manager tamper with the communication equipment during games. And I believe the '60s Chargers and '70s Steelers were all roided up, and Curley Lambeau hired college all stars to play for his team, and Pop Warner used to alter his team's uniforms so it looked like everyone was holding a football even when they weren't.
I'm not saying that everyone cheats. But many, if not most, do. Certainly most of the greatest teams in history have played fast and loose with the rules to get there.
Coaches and teams search for any edge they can get away with. Belichick does it more than most. Sometimes he flirts with the line between the unwritten rules and the written rules. Sometimes, such as with Spygate, he brazenly steps over it. I'm okay with that. I wouldn't say that if you're not cheating that you're not trying... but I would say that if you are cheating, you are trying.
Honestly, most of this Spygate and Deflategate nonsense has left me with zero cares about how Belichick and the Patriots have acted, and 100% cares about how the NFL has acted. Destroying the evidence for Spygate, leaking false information in Deflategate, careening from crisis to crisis in an effort to play politics and appease his bosses rather than get at the truth... Goodell looks far worse, to me, than Kraft or Belichick or Brady or anyone else. Teams sometimes skirt the rules. Commissioners shouldn't follow their lead.
Why do I need to stick with one thing? Cheating is cheating. It's breaking the rules to gain an unfair advantage. This bullcrap scenario that you Patriot fans create where everyone hates you because you're successful, is a joke. They hate you because you're cheaters. People have always hated cheaters. And the more info that comes out, the more hated you are. Dressing the camera guys up to lead teams to believe they work for NFL Films. lolol Unbelievable.
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dansav
Footballguy
So referring to arod and Barry bonds doing steroids is like Brady doing.........??
I can't wait for this answer.
It's probably time for some to choke on this article again(mute the annoying ad sound)
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/18/opinion/18bowden.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/18/opinion/18bowden.html
Cheating is cheating. Whether it's taking performance enhancing drugs or having your team camera guys dress like their from NFL Films so the other teams don't know your filming their practices or instructing your ball boys to let air out the game balls after the referees inspect them. It doesn't matter how you cheat. People hate cheaters. I'm just trying to explain to you why so many people hate your team. Because you seem confused into thinking it's because they've been successful. People didn't hate the 49ers in the 80's. Or the Jordan Bulls. Or Tiger Woods (pre womanizing scandal). Winning doesn't make you hated. Cheating constantly, and having a smug attitude about it, is why your team is hated by the other teams and their fans.
bostonfred
Footballguy
Still one of my favorite moments in sports
dansav
Footballguy
What did Brady do to cheat? You haven't answered the question just keep saying the same thing over and over..Your information about deflating footballs appears to be wrong unless of course you believe NFL and ESPN.
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
If cheating is cheating, then there are a lot of teams in many leagues and many sports that have cheated. If all 32 NFL teams were have found to have done something against the rules, then what? Would people label all 32 teams as cheaters? Or at that point would there be different gradations of cheating? Or would certain things be overlooked for some teams but not for others?
bostonfred
Footballguy
Someone should put together a web site with a list of all the teams and the times they've been caught cheating
Anarchy99
Footballguy
That would be considered propaganda and severely one-sided to deflect attention away from the biggest cheating team in sports history.
conan2
Footballguy
From the OTL article:
That was the only mention of that practice.
Damn those cheating Browns!
Green and Gold
Footballguy
What amazes me about the NFL's handling of this is that if they had limited it to organizational penalties (fines, draft picks) and only fined Brady instead of suspended him, everyone would still consider Brady to be guilty and his 'legacy' would be tarnished, and the Patriots would be again labeled cheaters with only homers doubting it. By suspending him and then upholding the suspensions, enough NFL lying is leaked from the court proceedings that (according to Peter King) there is a sense that even some hard-line Patriot haters in the league are not convinced Brady actually did anything.
How do you go from a slam-dunk media and league win to that?
How do you go from a slam-dunk media and league win to that?
The court case didn't reveal that Brady was innocent. It determined that the NFL led a bad investigation without enough hard proof to warrant the four game suspension. Ryan Braun got off when he failed his PED test because the league mishandled his urine sample. That didn't change the fact that he was sticking a needle full of steroids in his butt a few times a week.
Pretending you're hit by a pitch when it really just brushed against your jersey, is cheating. Falling to the ground on an incomplete pass and claiming the defender grabbed your arm is cheating. So you're right. To some extent, cheating goes on all the time. Always trying to get an edge. Get the call. But you can't compare stuff like that to taking steroids or telling your equipment guys to sneak into the bathroom after inspection and let air out of balls. Of course there's different levels of cheating.
bostonfred
Footballguy
The court case was specifically a trial about guilt or innocence and the verdict was total exoneration of tom brady, the patriots, everything. If you didnt know that then I don't know what you've been watching the last seven months.
Bucky86
Footballguy
Wow. That may be the most incorrect post in the history of the board. Go read up some more on it. And not a Boston newspaper. That trial had NOTHING to do with guilt or innocence.
