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Patriots being investigated after Colts game (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter HobbesAB
- Start date
bostonfred
Footballguy
Then why did the judge say
Go home BostonFred, you're drunk.![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
sho nuff
Footballguy
The 49ers in the '80s cheated, too, though.
In fairness, the website in question positively reeks of yellow journalism. I'm firmly on board the "everyone cheats" bandwagon, and I love taking a look back at stuff like this through history. But pretending that the Broncos version of Spygate, (which as far as we know lasted one game, wasn't used, and for which every participant was fired as soon as the owner learned) was somehow worse than the Patriots version is absurd. That's taking a good idea in theory and ruining it in practice.
I'd love to read a really good, objective book on cheating in football through history. Some of the stories I've seen are amazing. Like Pop Warner having pouches sewn on the back of his jerseys and telling his players to tuck the football into them so the other team couldn't tell who had it.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
Because of karma. If you set out to "pay back" the patriots because you feel they got off lightly for spygate, everything you do from that point forward is contaminated by the seed of bad intent.Green and Gold said:
What fascinates me about the new espn/si stories is the open-faced admission that deflategate was effectively made up to punish entities for past action.
This is the kind of stuff that goes on in smoke-filled backrooms, and it makes me giggle that we have come full circle to where there in an implicit admission that deflategate was a tempest in a teapot, manufactured by certain owners with an axe to grind.
#JayFeeley
Run It Up
Footballguy
I've heard NFL players, former and current all day today on radio saying that it is literally impossible to sneak into their locker room and steal play sheets whether the team was on the field or not.
Do these nebulous sources have names yet?
Do these nebulous sources have names yet?
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SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
Imagine a league where, if I'm to believe the quotes of Steve Maruicci, Bill Parcells, and others, where attempts to steal signals were commonplace, and the rules were vague.
So a new commissioner comes in and issues a memorandum of clarification, and one team assumes it's same old, same old, and basically ignores the memo.
This is why the league hammered Belichick for spygate. He gave Roger the finger, and paid the price for it.
Historical revisionists will try to tell you that what NE staff did was singular. That is not not accurate. There is ample evidence that trying to figure out the other teams signals was commonplace, as it is in baseball. For all we know, there are teams that have learned from the relative clumsy efforts of filming on the sidelines to evolve their methods. We live in a world where a professional baseball team attempted to hack into the opponents computer systems. Grow up.
Carry on.
So a new commissioner comes in and issues a memorandum of clarification, and one team assumes it's same old, same old, and basically ignores the memo.
This is why the league hammered Belichick for spygate. He gave Roger the finger, and paid the price for it.
Historical revisionists will try to tell you that what NE staff did was singular. That is not not accurate. There is ample evidence that trying to figure out the other teams signals was commonplace, as it is in baseball. For all we know, there are teams that have learned from the relative clumsy efforts of filming on the sidelines to evolve their methods. We live in a world where a professional baseball team attempted to hack into the opponents computer systems. Grow up.
Carry on.
Koya
Footballguy
Back to Normal.
Pats once again put back in their place (as lying cheats who have lost the respect of most of the non-Pats fan sports world) by realities that only foolish and blind fanatics could deny. Meanwhile, the rest of the universe, other players, coaches, fans, writers and most their collective role as writing history will recall this reality:
One of the best teams for a generation, that seemed to cheat literally the entire way, has forced what would have been one of if not the greatest legacy of success to become the byline of the story. A generation of cheating - which produced 4 (questionable, sadly) Super Bowl wins. Only leaves two real questions:
How many would the Pats have won without cheating (it could have been 2 or 3, I doubt 4 - but who knows, maybe you get 5 because of no distractions)? Unfortunately, because of your cheating, we will never know. Could have been more, and in a way, each you won is under a cloud of legit suspicion by 95% of the football universe.
Who else who may have deserved the win would actually be champion today, if not for the Pats cheating? Again, because of the Pats arrogance and continued, concerted effort to win at all costs, we won't know who actually DESERVED those wins.
We just have this awful feeling that the team that DID win, since they cheated (and likely in more ways than we know), shouldn't have.
See how it calls into question even the admitted success you have had? It's a sad tale. Great franchise. Repeatedly cheated and got caught. Fan base so in denial the rest of us can't even move on, because said foolish fan base really thinks they won on the up and up. When they didnt. They cheated and got caught. How much a fool does one have to be to not actually admit that. Oh, I guess we can see right here in this thread.
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
Koya I just want to say I hope you find happiness. You've posted about 35 times now about how sad this makes you. It's okay buddy, better days are coming.
Koya
Footballguy
Irony of ironies!
Does your version of history, where the Pats are not under a cloud of having constantly cheated, really work when the only people that actually believe it are Pats fans themselves and maybe a spattering of others?
I mean, almost the ENTIRE football universe acknowledged that the Pats are cheaters and repeatedly so. Like, almost everyone. Hell, some of the respected people out there (Peyton fearing wiretaps - BUT THERE ARE NO RULES AGAINST WIRETAPS!! (says the pathetic pats fan who can't admit the truth! - Shula's comments) have flat out called it out as almost everyone sees it.
So enjoy this little circle of denial you all have. Go anywhere outside of the arrogant cocoon of the Pats org and its lemmings, we all call it like the REAL history was.
Only people revising are you - and you feel better because a message board, and your work place and bars become echo chambers of denial - but the rest of the world, and history forever forward, will view this team as a cheater who's success at the least comes with some doubt. And their actions will be judged as sad, petty and utterly undeserving of either respect, or the world champion.
Enjoy the bed you mad Pats... and enjoy your little circles of "history" Pats fans. If it makes you feel better to ignore the rest of the nation and the football world - and history - calling you all as the cheaters and deniers as the facts have shown true.
Koya
Footballguy
Meh, I type a hundred words a minute.
It's fun to keep watching a fan base get so up in arms about something the rest of the world already knows, but they won't admit.
And yes, come Thursday better games are coming. Unfortunately I missed out on Gronk or Brady or I'd be cheering for the cheating to continue (as if its not!)
PS - Plus, baiting a fantatical crew of historical deniers can be fun. Not that different than the FFA. Of course, I am not trying to protect a legacy that has long since been destroyed, so I guess I can understand why folks seems to just jump right up and fastidiously respond to my latest barb - barbs that generally only come in reaction to yet another laughable insinuation by a Pats fan that the obvious cheating didn't occur.
So I lob some water balloons and they jump in the tanks. Even though their war is already lost and all the ammo is out - the Pats are cheaters regardless what the hold out fanatics say.
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PatsWillWin
Footballguy
So according to unnamed sources, the Patriot sent in "low level employees" to steal play sheets. I'm picturing 19 year olds wearing those glasses with the fake nose and mustache whistling casually as they run a mop through the visitor's locker room, stuffing game scripts that are laying around into their back pocket.
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I'm almost ready to fire up the grill and provide premium steaks and alcohol and have a bunch of old timers from the Cowboys, Niners, Steelers, Broncos or other teams to hear stories about the stuff their teams did "back in the day." Everyone would have a good laugh about the stuff that went down.
Old Smiley
Footballguy
Old Smiley
Footballguy
"Yeah, the early part of the century was pretty nuts. We used to get outraged like these punks today wouldn't even know. Some guys used to get outraged five, six times a day. One guy used to say if he didn't wonder what he was going to tell his kids before lunch he'd just stay in bed."
Koya
Footballguy
I think this broaches an interesting and important component of this discussion.Adam Harstad said:
Unfortunately, so many seem to want to ignore the need for nuance.
There is gamesmanship, skirting the line, cheating, blatant cheating. Some of those efforts are individual, some a team/organizational effort. It can be equipment based (stickum, grease the Jersey), trying to skirt the rules (illegal formation) etc - of course, most / many of these also have clear punishments, usually in game (15 yards, etc).
That said, at some point you have to recognize a pattern of repeated organizational attempts not to skirt rules, but to get an advantage outside the bounds of any reasonable sportsmanship, and to call into question the very integrity of the game is far beyond that.
I'd also strongly separate "cheating" on the field, even stealing of signs on that day etc, as if it's in plain view, like baseball, I feel there's a responsibility to mask communication. But when you step off the field, use staff, filming and other equipment and a number of efforts that seam quite literally more like STEALING than cheating (whatever it takes to know another teams playbook, regardless of how it's obtained).
And for anyone, Pats fan or otherwise, to suggest that there has not been a good amount of cheating already exposed, is simply keeping their head in the ground.
Koya
Footballguy
Sounds par for the course for this team. Sadly, I'd expect it, more than I'd expect it to not be happening in some way.
bostonfred
Footballguy
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
You used to be able to pick up a QB and slam him head-first into the turf too. But today you're not. Rules and their application change over time.
HTH
HTH
Old Smiley
Footballguy
Old Smiley
Footballguy
It's more about cheating being eternal, and the Pats not being exceptional.
edit: That's more about the ESPN piece, which moves things beyond Defategate.
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GoBirds
Footballguy
Exactly, while they won't admit it it is as clear to them their organization has been overrun by cheating scumbags.
Koya
Footballguy
If you are going to be an ignorant fanboy, might as well go all in?'
When all logic fails, you can embrace the truth and reality - or decide to lose all touch with it. Have to say, it must be a nice place to be. Thinking you have 4 Super Bowl wins and the respect of the football world would be a pretty sweet deal.
I guess the Steelers are the closest thing we've got. :shudders:
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Koya
Footballguy
Like I said, I'm not the one feverishly trying to defend an honor that has been long since lost.
Koya
Footballguy
I request a Title Change:
Patiots being Investigated ________.
Let's be honest, when someone has been caught this many times, you know there is a lot more ugliness of past transgressions to arise. And, seeing as we are also talking last year, it doesn't seem they will stop cheating any time soon. Let's keep things open ended, shall we?
Patiots being Investigated ________.
Let's be honest, when someone has been caught this many times, you know there is a lot more ugliness of past transgressions to arise. And, seeing as we are also talking last year, it doesn't seem they will stop cheating any time soon. Let's keep things open ended, shall we?
Run It Up
Footballguy
Just so you guys know, America's Game is on in an hour and fifty minutes on NFL network.
Back to this again huh?
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PatsWillWin
Footballguy
bostonfred
Footballguy
I don't think koya read the ruling. With Cruz and jpp sharing 19 fingers and three patellas you probably haven't enjoyed reading about football this off season, but a judge literally just totally exonerated them of all wrong doing. You're just making yourself look foolish in here.
Just trying to help.
Just trying to help.
Koya
Footballguy
You mean the last decade plus of demonstrated cheating? Or this latest transgression? Errr, alleged.
Honestly, I haven't even had a chance to read up on this playsheet stealing. I can only judge by the historical record that it would not be surprising, at the least, if not sorta expected.
Koya
Footballguy
PS - If the literal litany of cheats has been shown to be ALL a lie, and the Pats actually are an upstanding organization that deserves fair respect and honor for their, now unblemished, accomplishments, please show me the text.
I'll gladly anoint them the greatest organizational dynasty of our time and apologize for my harsh words in the face of all this cheating being a ruse.
I'll gladly anoint them the greatest organizational dynasty of our time and apologize for my harsh words in the face of all this cheating being a ruse.
I've said this before, I firmly believe the Pats ARE exceptional at cheating; taking it to a level NEVER done before in the NFL. And frankly, why not just own that for bragging rights? You can say that you are both the best evah on the field and in cheating (and of course the "cheating never really helped because everyone does/did" it is still your cover).
AngryPatriot
Footballguy
Good points... the kid in the disguise sent into the locker room is pure genius! SO many Raider, Jets, Steelers fans etc are so butthurt. Knowing that Brady is the best ever and that he'll be around for 3-5 more years... how many more will he win? One, two... three? I guarantee you he is devising flaming mad baller super advanced cheating techniques as we speak. And ironically, there's nothing anyone can do, not even the commish, to stop him or the Patriots. It's like a runaway locomotive OF GREATNESS!!!!! WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS... my friend. WE"LL KEEP ON FIGHTING... to the end....
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Statler & Waldorf
Footballguy
@SigmundBloom: Stealing signals was a part of the game and everybody attempted to do that. We had people that always tried to steal signals" - Bill Cowher
hahaha. I hope this is shtick. I'm praying you're brighter than this.
As a Ravens fan, I am getting skeered about Brady scorching the earth...6 yards at a time.
I have to hand it to Kraft. Despite a judge exonerating them of any wrongdoing, he's still donating two of this year's draft choices back to the league. He's such a good sport. Lol
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