Patriots discussing the possibility of Vincent Jackson... (1 Viewer)

[NE_REVIVAL]

NFL.com (Passing, as of today)

1 Peyton Manning IND QB 120 172 69.8 43.0 1,365 7.9 341.2 11 1 72 41.9 73T 15 4 4 112.2

2 Tom Brady NE QB 85 122 69.7 30.5 911 7.5 227.8 9 2 45 36.9 46 11 2 5 109.0

Yeah, that Brady has "obviously" really fallen off a cliff, hasn't he

Trolls, u gotta love em.......

Here's the REAL NFL.COM passing as of today, not sorted by Brady's best attribute....

You go to NFL.com and you clicking on Stats, passing and you get the default statistics I posted, not the ALWAYS Cherry Picked hand selected sorted nonsense numbers you typically provide.Brady looks fine this year and every commentator I have heard says the same thing he looks good, he looks more comfortable 2 yrs removed from the knee inj etc.

Breaking my own rules,,,,,feeding the trolls

 

[Neofight]

He looks great compared to everyone except Peyton Manning, Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers...Who he looked superior to before his injury. The stats bore that out in 07 as well.I'm not saying he IS Carson Palmer now, but Palmer suffered a similar knee injury and has never been the same as he previously was.

You seem to be too emotionally attached to this subject to be objective, but Brady has looked far better than Rodgers so far this season, and his numbers are better than Brees' for the most part. If he has a few series to actually play in the second half Monday night, he may even have more yardage than both. Is this a Switz alias (before I waste too much time)?

 

[CompetitiveEdgeFootball]

Nothing like seeking the expert opinions of television commentators.

Brady does look "fine" this year. Listen, I'm a NE fan

But he doesn't look like the best QB to ever walk the planet, like in '07. Some of it is the injury. Some of it is the system. Some of it is NFL teams having years to study film on the '07 offense.

(Other QB's who look "fine." Schaub. Romo. Rivers)

 

[CompetitiveEdgeFootball]

He looks great compared to everyone except Peyton Manning, Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers...Who he looked superior to before his injury. The stats bore that out in 07 as well.I'm not saying he IS Carson Palmer now, but Palmer suffered a similar knee injury and has never been the same as he previously was.

You seem to be too emotionally attached to this subject to be objective, but Brady has looked far better than Rodgers so far this season, and his numbers are better than Brees' for the most part. If he has a few series to actually play in the second half Monday night, he may even have more yardage than both. Is this a Switz alias (before I waste too much time)?

I don't even know who Switz is. And if you try and undermine my credibility, and you ask questions that try and make me look stupid, like "well how do you not know who the NE OC is" I'm going to defend myself. Act as smug and objective as you like.

 

[Neofight]

He looks great compared to everyone except Peyton Manning, Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers...Who he looked superior to before his injury. The stats bore that out in 07 as well.I'm not saying he IS Carson Palmer now, but Palmer suffered a similar knee injury and has never been the same as he previously was.

You seem to be too emotionally attached to this subject to be objective, but Brady has looked far better than Rodgers so far this season, and his numbers are better than Brees' for the most part. If he has a few series to actually play in the second half Monday night, he may even have more yardage than both. Is this a Switz alias (before I waste too much time)?

I don't even know who Switz is. And if you try and undermine my credibility, and you ask questions that try and make me look stupid, like "well how do you not know who the NE OC is" I'm going to defend myself. Act as smug and objective as you like.

I merely pointed out that it was strange, no one is trying to undermine you or make you look stupid. Carry on.

 

[switz]

NFL.com (Passing, as of today)

1 Peyton Manning IND QB 120 172 69.8 43.0 1,365 7.9 341.2 11 1 72 41.9 73T 15 4 4 112.2

2 Tom Brady NE QB 85 122 69.7 30.5 911 7.5 227.8 9 2 45 36.9 46 11 2 5 109.0

Yeah, that Brady has "obviously" really fallen off a cliff, hasn't he

Trolls, u gotta love em.......

Here's the REAL NFL.COM passing as of today, not sorted by Brady's best attribute....

You go to NFL.com and you clicking on Stats, passing and you get the default statistics I posted, not the ALWAYS Cherry Picked hand selected sorted nonsense numbers you typically provide.Brady looks fine this year and every commentator I have heard says the same thing he looks good, he looks more comfortable 2 yrs removed from the knee inj etc.

Breaking my own rules,,,,,feeding the trolls

Nice try, but you go to Stats, and the link to Passing stats provides the list I gave, not the crap you posted

 

[higgins]

Oh yea? Well you're a poopie pants!

 

[Cookiemonster]

Still no mention of Jackson for the last 20+ posts. Didn't even reading any further back. How many threads/titles do we need to discuss whether Brady is slipping or not?

 

[CompetitiveEdgeFootball]

LaCanfora seems to believe with a degree of certainty that Vjax will report by week 8.

I guess that makes him worth rostering at least. The whole Vjax to NE idea has been highly contested by various agents and "team insiders" on both sides, but from what i understand, Seattle is still in the mix for him as well.

To me it just makes sense to hold on to him for a week or two (oct 19 trade deadline) and see if he'll be of some value after that. If not you can always dump him.

I wonder if he reports before week 8, if he'll actually bite the bullet and play?

 

[Cassius]

They're delusional. Plain and simple. The more I hear from Moss, Belichick and the rest of the current team about the trade, the more I think that this was engineered more by the Krafts than Belichick. Just a gut feeling.

I visit the Globe's forums sometimes and here were some of the thread titles over there . . .Moss Trade Makes Sense

Back to the Old Formula

Ball Control Again

Tired of the Media Piling on the Pats and BB

Moss Trade = Perfect Timing

This Trade Makes Them Better

With Moss Gone, Pats Could Go 14-2

This Is The Best Thing That Ever Happened (About 6 threads with similar titles)

Best Trade Ever

I Love the Move . . .

No Moss = New Opportunity

Pats Better Without Moss

We Could Be Better without Moss

Pats Will Be Better without RM

Moss Trade - Smart Move

I Like This A Lot

Glad Moss is Gone!

There certainly are threads against the trade, but there are plenty of people dancing a jig over Moss' departure.

Really don't get why you keep bringing stuff like this up. Less than 1% of these same people would have thought trading Moss for a 3rd round pick was a good idea before Moss was traded for a 3rd round pick - they're just homers and it really adds nothing to the discussion of why Moss was/wasn't traded.

 

[CompetitiveEdgeFootball]

They're delusional. Plain and simple. The more I hear from Moss, Belichick and the rest of the current team about the trade, the more I think that this was engineered more by the Krafts than Belichick. Just a gut feeling.

I visit the Globe's forums sometimes and here were some of the thread titles over there . . .Moss Trade Makes Sense

Back to the Old Formula

Ball Control Again

Tired of the Media Piling on the Pats and BB

Moss Trade = Perfect Timing

This Trade Makes Them Better

With Moss Gone, Pats Could Go 14-2

This Is The Best Thing That Ever Happened (About 6 threads with similar titles)

Best Trade Ever

I Love the Move . . .

No Moss = New Opportunity

Pats Better Without Moss

We Could Be Better without Moss

Pats Will Be Better without RM

Moss Trade - Smart Move

I Like This A Lot

Glad Moss is Gone!

There certainly are threads against the trade, but there are plenty of people dancing a jig over Moss' departure.

Really don't get why you keep bringing stuff like this up. Less than 1% of these same people would have thought trading Moss for a 3rd round pick was a good idea before Moss was traded for a 3rd round pick - they're just homers and it really adds nothing to the discussion of why Moss was/wasn't traded.

I don't think NE is a better football team right now than it was before the trade.

What I think is, with all these picks they're stockpiling, they better not F up this draft.

This team needs a running game desperately, and the defense could use some serious upgrading as well.

 

[wudaben]

LaCanfora seems to believe with a degree of certainty that Vjax will report by week 8.I guess that makes him worth rostering at least. The whole Vjax to NE idea has been highly contested by various agents and "team insiders" on both sides, but from what i understand, Seattle is still in the mix for him as well. To me it just makes sense to hold on to him for a week or two (oct 19 trade deadline) and see if he'll be of some value after that. If not you can always dump him. I wonder if he reports before week 8, if he'll actually bite the bullet and play?

If he signs and remains in SD this season I'm going to attempt to trade him before he actually gets a chance to play because I think he'll immediately fake an injury just to **** with AJ Smith!

 

[CompetitiveEdgeFootball]

He may legit get injured from not being in game shape. Look at Revis after his "hold out" that ended just in time for the season finale of "Hard Knocks."

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

Still no mention of Jackson for the last 20+ posts.

you have to read between the lines

 

[Road Warriors]

He looks great compared to everyone except Peyton Manning, Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers...Who he looked superior to before his injury. The stats bore that out in 07 as well.I'm not saying he IS Carson Palmer now, but Palmer suffered a similar knee injury and has never been the same as he previously was.

If you're comparing Brady '07 to Manning/Brees/Rodgers '07 ( when he looked better than all of them ) to now, sure. '07 was a perfect storm, as has been noted. On top of Brady being on the top of his game, Moss was as motivated as he'd ever been. Defenses around the league had not seen anything like what the Patriots pulled out that year, and the results were historic.The is Brady in decline statement only makes sense if you're comparing him to that one, historic year. He looks better now than he did last year. He looks better now than he did in '01 - '06. He looks worse now than he did in '07. Very few reasonable people thought that '07 was Brady's new norm. His deep ball this year has been accurate. His long seam routes and outs have looked very good to me. The most recent example (MIA game, 1st half), called back by a hold, was the 30+ yard completion to Hernandez. Deep drop, step up, deliver a laser 30 yards down the field between the numbers. Thats the throw I'm saying he didn't make last year with as much consistency. Overall, game situation has dictated what the offense does this year... CIN, going up 31-3 just starting the 2nd half put NE in a ball control offense. Week 2... Jets D did a good job taking away the deep ball. Week 3, they ran for 200 yards. Week 4, they got 3 D/ST scores. There hasn't been a need for the dynamic, deep ball through 4 games, outside of the Jets game. They tried it there, but were well defensed, and Brady missed an open Moss on at least one play. Call me an apologist, but I feel I'm pretty objective evaluating how Brady has looked this year.ETA: VJ still not coming to NE

 

[Road Warriors]

NFL.com (Passing, as of today)

1 Peyton Manning IND QB 120 172 69.8 43.0 1,365 7.9 341.2 11 1 72 41.9 73T 15 4 4 112.2

2 Tom Brady NE QB 85 122 69.7 30.5 911 7.5 227.8 9 2 45 36.9 46 11 2 5 109.0

Yeah, that Brady has "obviously" really fallen off a cliff, hasn't he

Trolls, u gotta love em.......

Here's the REAL NFL.COM passing as of today, not sorted by Brady's best attribute....

You go to NFL.com and you clicking on Stats, passing and you get the default statistics I posted, not the ALWAYS Cherry Picked hand selected sorted nonsense numbers you typically provide.Brady looks fine this year and every commentator I have heard says the same thing he looks good, he looks more comfortable 2 yrs removed from the knee inj etc.

Breaking my own rules,,,,,feeding the trolls

Nice try, but you go to Stats, and the link to Passing stats provides the list I gave, not the crap you posted

I went to NFL.com... clicked the stats header... clicked the pulldown (by Category) and selected Passing... I got what NE_Revival got. Default sorting on that is Passer rating. It looks like you clicked on the sublist of Passing Yards for your list. Sorted by passing yards. No great conspiracy here.

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

Nothing like seeking the expert opinions of television commentators.

Brady does look "fine" this year. Listen, I'm a NE fan

But he doesn't look like the best QB to ever walk the planet, like in '07. Some of it is the injury. Some of it is the system. Some of it is NFL teams having years to study film on the '07 offense.

(Other QB's who look "fine." Schaub. Romo. Rivers)

That is a straw man arguement, and no one other than you (afaik) has said that. What prompted this little tet a tet is someone claiming Brady is "obviously" in Decline which is a rather absurd statement when you consider he is the 2nd ranked passer in the league, 9tds vs 2 ints, runs the #1 scoring offense in the league and his team is 3-1.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/player

Then click NFL Player ranking = Passing

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tab...;seasonType=REG

Now, if you or others want to cherry pick some stats that indicate Kyle Orton is the best QB in the league you are free to do so. You just shouldn't expect to be taken seriously when you do.

As for some people being skeptical of you and your creds, it is probably because you just joined the board a couple of months ago; unfortunately there are some who create alias's in order to troll. I am not saying or even implying that you fall into that category, I am just pointing out that it might be why some are a bit skeptical of you.

 

[CompetitiveEdgeFootball]

Brady is what he is. He's an above average QB. He's never thrown for more than 28 TDs in a season, with the exception of 07.

When the 07 "perfect storm" hit, the factors I listed before boosted his production. A lot. He was playing out of his mind that year.

No one in the AFC had consistently dealt with Moss before 07 (his years in Oakland were a debacle).

In 08, we all know brady was injured. Somehow, Matt Cassell took the reigns of the high powered offense and became a pro bowler. Do you attribute this to the weapons around him, or the system around him? Both?

In 09 Brady returned, and posted a statistically strong season. The personnel was largely the same. The system was different. 4400 yards, 28 TDs.

His 2009 numbers were not far removed from his career averages, but were certainly far removed from his 2007 stat line.

So the difference between 07 and the subsequent years, because personnel was the same, was the Offensive system, and the fact that he was returning from a major knee injury, and more than a year of rehab time. He wasn't playing football in the system.

So how do you explain the statistical aberration that was the 2007 NE patriots offense?

Because if you say Brady is not in decline right now, as we speak, then you have to agree that he's being consistent with his career averages.

Which would logically make 2007 a gigantic aberration.

If nothing was "wrong" with brady or he wasn't in a "decline" then you would assume you install him back into the offense with basically the same weapons, and he would produce like 2007.

What changed? The system. The injury. The time off.

May I point out that the system and personnel made matt cassell into a pro bowl QB in 2008. He has since played pretty badly in KC.

May I also point out that the system moved to Denver with Josh McDaniels. I'm making absolutely no statement rank of Kyle Orton in the lexicon of QBs in the league. I'm simply pointing out that a Denver Offense, that on paper just isn't very good, is producing along the lines of the Colts, Texans, Saints and Patriots offenses.

It reminds me a little bit of the "Brady to givens, Brady to Branch, Brady to Patten" years in NE. I think that's more than a fair comparison.

There are far more variables and moving parts to the situation than to simply band-aid it as "BRADY IS IN DECLINE."

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

Brady is what he is. He's an above average QB. He's never thrown for more than 28 TDs in a season, with the exception of 07. When the 07 "perfect storm" hit, the factors I listed before boosted his production. A lot. He was playing out of his mind that year.No one in the AFC had consistently dealt with Moss before 07 (his years in Oakland were a debacle).In 08, we all know brady was injured. Somehow, Matt Cassell took the reigns of the high powered offense and became a pro bowler. Do you attribute this to the weapons around him, or the system around him? Both?In 09 Brady returned, and posted a statistically strong season. The personnel was largely the same. The system was different. 4400 yards, 28 TDs. His 2009 numbers were not far removed from his career averages, but were certainly far removed from his 2007 stat line.So the difference between 07 and the subsequent years, because personnel was the same, was the Offensive system, and the fact that he was returning from a major knee injury, and more than a year of rehab time. He wasn't playing football in the system.So how do you explain the statistical aberration that was the 2007 NE patriots offense?Because if you say Brady is not in decline right now, as we speak, then you have to agree that he's being consistent with his career averages. Which would logically make 2007 a gigantic aberration.If nothing was "wrong" with brady or he wasn't in a "decline" then you would assume you install him back into the offense with basically the same weapons, and he would produce like 2007.

So by your “logic” Peyton Manning is in decline, right? In 2004 he had 49 TDs and in 2005 with the same team he had only 28 TDs. If nothing was wrong with Manning he would produce like 2004,,,right? That is the logical thing to conclude? We could also add that he has never thrown for more than 33 before or since. Decline?

I'm making absolutely no statement rank of Kyle Orton in the lexicon of QBs in the league.

No you didn’t, but those were the stats that Switz laughingly tried to use to support his claim and oddly enough you appear to be trying to prop up his claim.You are obviously a big Pats fan (nice Avatar), so welcome aboard, I am glad you were able to find this place, us Pats fans need to stick together, there are a lot of haters out there. Where have you been? I mean where were you posting your observations prior to 6 weeks ago? You know, before you created your account here on FBG?

 

[CompetitiveEdgeFootball]

Uh, I spent most of the spring doing 200+ mocks for the 23 fantasy leagues I'm in...

That and although I do enjoy posing on forums and debating opinions, basically opinions are like *you know what's* everyone's got one. Some people use stats to back theirs up, sometimes numbers lie (context, size of sample set etc). So I'm really not a diehard here, although I do take a lot of this very seriously, you can debate and make fair point after fair point, and you're really not going to change anyone's mind. Perception is reality and people sometimes are just locked into their own perception. I'll be around a bit during the football season to participate in this circus of opinions and insanity

All I can say is, this front office better have a pretty good idea about what's going to happen in the offseason, getting rid of Moss, because we don't really have much of a run game, and the defense is a sieve. We aren't going to score 2-3 DST TDs on a weekly basis...

Vjax to the Pats wouldn't be a terrible fit, but I don't really see it realistically happening... But like I said before, I'm rostering him just in case, in every league I can afford the bench space.

(I can't speak for Manning's situation because I don't know enough about the personnel, coaching staff etc in Indy.)

 

[bill bates hits hard]

Holy crap, I thought this was a vjax thread. Pm each other about brady ect...

This was for updates but I can't tell you how annoying it is to sift through 2 pages of rants to find one mention of vjax here.what if I post this same message for 2 pages in a row? You'd hate me as well ,this is how we feel.

 

[Sabertooth]

I think it is better for Vjax to stay in SD and report. I don't want him in Seattle as a dynasty owner. Just signing his tender and rolling in SD is far more preferable. Then he's unrestricted and could end up anywhere, but it will be of his choosing instead of AJ Smith's.

 

[CompetitiveEdgeFootball]

Holy crap, I thought this was a vjax thread. Pm each other about brady ect...This was for updates but I can't tell you how annoying it is to sift through 2 pages of rants to find one mention of vjax here.what if I post this same message for 2 pages in a row? You'd hate me well this is how we feel.

You're absolutely right and I apologize. I'm surprised this thread hasn't been moderated yet tbh

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

Uh, I spent most of the spring doing 200+ mocks for the 23 fantasy leagues I'm in... That and although I do enjoy posing on forums and debating opinions, basically opinions are like *you know what's* everyone's got one. Some people use stats to back theirs up, sometimes numbers lie (context, size of sample set etc). So I'm really not a diehard here, although I do take a lot of this very seriously, you can debate and make fair point after fair point, and you're really not going to change anyone's mind. Perception is reality and people sometimes are just locked into their own perception. I'll be around a bit during the football season to participate in this circus of opinions and insanity All I can say is, this front office better have a pretty good idea about what's going to happen in the offseason, getting rid of Moss, because we don't really have much of a run game, and the defense is a sieve. We aren't going to score 2-3 DST TDs on a weekly basis... Vjax to the Pats wouldn't be a terrible fit, but I don't really see it realistically happening... But like I said before, I'm rostering him just in case, in every league I can afford the bench space.(I can't speak for Manning's situation because I don't know enough about the personnel, coaching staff etc in Indy.)

23 Fantasy leagues? Wow!And you just found FBG 6 weeks ago?FWIW, Manning had essentially the same team in 05 as 04 (not hard to look).For those complaining about the hijack(s), you have my sympathy, but it is a NE & Jackson thread after all and you are going to get the haters in any thread involving NE.Back to the subject at hand:At the risk of providing someone with a tag line for the next year, let me go out on a limb and say that IMHO, Vincent Jackson has a better chance of getting pregnant this year than he does of coming to NE. I think it would be a horrible idea that makes virtually no sense.

 

[bill bates hits hard]

ne revival let it go, wow.

 

[switz]

No you didn’t, but those were the stats that Switz laughingly tried to use to support his claim and oddly enough you appear to be trying to prop up his claim.

Actually, I never tried to use the stats to support anything. I merely responded to your post in which you tried to use stats to prove Brady isn't declining at all, despite a lower YPA than normal, lower yards per game, etc.All I did was post the stats the way they are sorted by default when you click on the passing link on NFL.com/stats. But whatever, don't let facts get in the way of a good attack on someone.