Pats fans take the cake! It goes way beyond these boards (1 Viewer)

[DBIsports]

I'd like to reiterate that i dont think the clock issue changed the outcome of the game or taints the Giants victory in any way.But- i defy anyone to watch the last Giants drive with an eye on the clock and tell me how the math works out. All i'm saying is that is inexcuseable and COULD have ruined the end of the game.

Are you seriously under the assumption that there was a :35 second mistake,and BB is standing on the sidelines clueless? If there was any coach that would be throwing a tizzy I would think it would be him.

Again- go prove me wrong. What I assume is immaterial. The FACTS say there is a 35 second discrepency in the game film. Note- this has nothing to do with timekeeping- no matter who is keeping the clock, more time physically ellapsed during play than can be accounted for in the allotted tme for an NFL game, specifically the last 2 minutes. All I can say is go watch the last minute and a half with a stopwatch, there is a 35 second lapse and it has nothing to do with a few seconds here or there for a timeout etc... a running play ended and the clock was not restarted until the end of the next play. The clock was never corrected before the end of the game, and the game ended at 00.

Maybe I am missing what you are trying to say,but here is what I saw on that drive you are talking about.......It's 4th and 1 with 1:22 left in the game and the time changes to 1:28,not because we hear Mike Carrey telling the timekeeper to " Please add 6 seconds to the gameclock",therefore prolly a FOX clock glitch,1st down is achieved,Eli then runs the ball for 5 yards bringing the FOX clock down to 1:15,Coughlin calls timeout,when we come back from timeout the clock comes back up to 1:20,once again not because Carrey orders to add more time to the gameclock.......imo,FOX was screwing up the timeclock you seen on your TV,and fixed it to coincide with actual gametime during the Coughlin timeout

 

[phrozen]

Wow, there should be classes that new football fans can take to understand the rules better.

Kid, i've forgotten more football than you're likely to ever learn. Watch the tape- the clock is never corrected. Play is stopped, the clock is stopped, the Giants snap the ball, the clock remains stopped, there is a timeout, a new play starts.. essentially the clock is never corrected and the Giants score with 35 seconds left, Pats run their plays and the game ends at 0 seconds.Watch the tape and you tell me when the clock catches up.

Serious Business activated

 

[DBIsports]

Again I would like to add that if the actual game clock wouldn't have started after the 1st down run, there would have been total chaos on the NE sideline,it is just common sense to assume FOX graphic was not in synch with actual gameclock.

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

Pathetic.

 

[Road Warriors]

...Maybe I am missing what you are trying to say,but here is what I saw on that drive you are talking about.......It's 4th and 1 with 1:22 left in the game and the time changes to 1:28,not because we hear Mike Carrey telling the timekeeper to " Please add 6 seconds to the gameclock",therefore prolly a FOX clock glitch,1st down is achieved,Eli then runs the ball for 5 yards bringing the FOX clock down to 1:15,Coughlin calls timeout,when we come back from timeout the clock comes back up to 1:20,once again not because Carrey orders to add more time to the gameclock.......imo,FOX was screwing up the timeclock you seen on your TV,and fixed it to coincide with actual gametime during the Coughlin timeout

The questionable part is that on the 1st down, the clock stopped. Since there never was a measurement, and no timeout was called, the clock should have been running. Even if the Ref calls for a stop, once the 1st down is called, the clock should have been wound and running. On the 1st down run by Eli, if you watch the TV clock, it was sitting, not running, at 1:28 while the play happens. After the play ends, as the refs are pulling the pile apart for the non-fumble, the clock starts to run, winds down to 1:20 and Coughlin comes on the field calling TO.So, the point being made is that from the time of the end of the 4th down play ( Jacobs for 2 yards ) until the TO called by Coughlin after the Eli run for 5, a total of 8 seconds of clock ran off, but 30-40 seconds of elapsed time where the clock ( according to the rules ) should have been running. The reason for the question, with all of the official timekeeper comments etc., is that from the 1:20 remaing until the end of the game, there were no further "adjustments" to the clock. The final 1:20 played out as you would expect.

 

[DBIsports]

...Maybe I am missing what you are trying to say,but here is what I saw on that drive you are talking about.......It's 4th and 1 with 1:22 left in the game and the time changes to 1:28,not because we hear Mike Carrey telling the timekeeper to " Please add 6 seconds to the gameclock",therefore prolly a FOX clock glitch,1st down is achieved,Eli then runs the ball for 5 yards bringing the FOX clock down to 1:15,Coughlin calls timeout,when we come back from timeout the clock comes back up to 1:20,once again not because Carrey orders to add more time to the gameclock.......imo,FOX was screwing up the timeclock you seen on your TV,and fixed it to coincide with actual gametime during the Coughlin timeout

The questionable part is that on the 1st down, the clock stopped. Since there never was a measurement, and no timeout was called, the clock should have been running. Even if the Ref calls for a stop, once the 1st down is called, the clock should have been wound and running. On the 1st down run by Eli, if you watch the TV clock, it was sitting, not running, at 1:28 while the play happens. After the play ends, as the refs are pulling the pile apart for the non-fumble, the clock starts to run, winds down to 1:20 and Coughlin comes on the field calling TO.So, the point being made is that from the time of the end of the 4th down play ( Jacobs for 2 yards ) until the TO called by Coughlin after the Eli run for 5, a total of 8 seconds of clock ran off, but 30-40 seconds of elapsed time where the clock ( according to the rules ) should have been running. The reason for the question, with all of the official timekeeper comments etc., is that from the 1:20 remaing until the end of the game, there were no further "adjustments" to the clock. The final 1:20 played out as you would expect.

Exactly my point the final 1:20 went without any timing issues,because the tv clock was put in synch with actual clock during the Coughlin timeout...... you are right about the tv clock not running at 1:28,but the actual clock was.

 

[mbuehner]

I think i see what happened and DBI is right- the referee never wound the clock after the first down. You can hear the whistle right before the snap- it took the officials almost 30 seconds to set 8 seconds back on the clock. The TV clock didnt run during the play but it was corrected at the timeout. The game clock was right because the officials hadnt wound the clock. Still rather poor officiating to give the Giants almost a timeouts worth of time after a first down that never even got measured.

 

[Redwes25]

We already have a thread for this. Please move your discussion there. TIA

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...amp;hl=official

 

[Road Warriors]

I think i see what happened and DBI is right- the referee never wound the clock after the first down. You can hear the whistle right before the snap- it took the officials almost 30 seconds to set 8 seconds back on the clock. The TV clock didnt run during the play but it was corrected at the timeout. The game clock was right because the officials hadnt wound the clock. Still rather poor officiating to give the Giants almost a timeouts worth of time after a first down that never even got measured.

I was looking for the restart after placing the ball on the spot after the Jacobs run, and never did see it. It did more or less act as an additional timeout, but if the clock had been running, the Giants would have been able to call the TO. It was a little strange, but certainly not a conspiracy. Those only happen FOR the patriots, doncha know!

 

[mbuehner]

We already have a thread for this. Please move your discussion there. TIA

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...amp;hl=official

What are you, the shoe police?

 

[Chop_Block]

Biggest bunch of idiots I've ever seen.... and now they're here too.

Guys -- here's a TV lesson for you from someone who works in it.....

FOX Clock /= Game Clock.

If you are basing your notions that one has to reflect the other.... well, you need your medication checked.

The FOX clock was a mess for portions of the game. And that was it. You lost because you got beat. Please get over it soon.

 

[Redwes25]

We already have a thread for this. Please move your discussion there. TIA

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...amp;hl=official

What are you, the shoe police?

 

[GregR_2]

I think i see what happened and DBI is right- the referee never wound the clock after the first down. You can hear the whistle right before the snap- it took the officials almost 30 seconds to set 8 seconds back on the clock. The TV clock didnt run during the play but it was corrected at the timeout. The game clock was right because the officials hadnt wound the clock. Still rather poor officiating to give the Giants almost a timeouts worth of time after a first down that never even got measured.

From the rulebook:

The following situations are automatic Referee's time outs:

...

(2) Any possibility of a measurement for first down or in consulting a captain about one.

It doesn't matter that they didn't actually make the measurement. What matters is that in Carey's view it was close enough a measurement might be needed. I don't think anyone can honestly say that wasn't the case. If you watch the replay you can see that Carey lines up to where he can see the ball in relation to the marker on the sideline. That the ball was far enough he didn't then need to call over the chains doesn't change that he saw the possibility he would have to. The clock was correctly stopped.

If Jacobs had been, say, a yard or two past the line, then you'd be correct it shouldn't be stopped. But as close as it was, if Carey hadn't taken the time to do this, if he'd just peremptorily signaled a first down without at least checking it when it was that close, people would be screaming louder that he didn't measure it or at least line it up as he actually did do.

I think one could argue the clock didn't start soon enough afterwards, and that even when Carey signaled for the clock, at least 4-6 seconds more should have run off on that next play. But I don't think you can correctly argue that the clock shouldn't have been stopped for the first down determination.

 

[switz]

And to think people were griping when Bill Polian asked the Competition Committee to have the referees enforce rules already on the books...

Petition to have final 1:40 reviewed

Giantscheated.com LOL

I know this is not a representation of all Pats fans, but come on!

Slide 2 - possible holdingSlide 3 - no facemask, you see the face mask "over" the hand... maybe illegal hands to the face.

Slide 4 - Even more clear that the glove is "behind" the face mask, not grabbing it. Looks like hand is trying to grab collar.

Slide 5 - how is that in view of the official? How do you know where the official is even standing?

Slide 6 - yep maybe holding, but he doesn't have anything held...

Slide 7, so that is holding, still no facemask...

Slide 8 - no infraction at all, that's a pathetic shot

Slide 9 - at this angle it doesn't even look like a hold

Basically after my review, I think whoever created this is a pretty pathetic and desperate person, who doesn't know a lot about football. But then again, it's a Pats fan... LOL

 

[Road Warriors]

I think i see what happened and DBI is right- the referee never wound the clock after the first down. You can hear the whistle right before the snap- it took the officials almost 30 seconds to set 8 seconds back on the clock. The TV clock didnt run during the play but it was corrected at the timeout. The game clock was right because the officials hadnt wound the clock. Still rather poor officiating to give the Giants almost a timeouts worth of time after a first down that never even got measured.

From the rulebook:

The following situations are automatic Referee's time outs:

...

(2) Any possibility of a measurement for first down or in consulting a captain about one.

It doesn't matter that they didn't actually make the measurement. What matters is that in Carey's view it was close enough a measurement might be needed. I don't think anyone can honestly say that wasn't the case. If you watch the replay you can see that Carey lines up to where he can see the ball in relation to the marker on the sideline. That the ball was far enough he didn't then need to call over the chains doesn't change that he saw the possibility he would have to. The clock was correctly stopped.

If Jacobs had been, say, a yard or two past the line, then you'd be correct it shouldn't be stopped. But as close as it was, if Carey hadn't taken the time to do this, if he'd just peremptorily signaled a first down without at least checking it when it was that close, people would be screaming louder that he didn't measure it or at least line it up as he actually did do.

I think one could argue the clock didn't start soon enough afterwards, and that even when Carey signaled for the clock, at least 4-6 seconds more should have run off on that next play. But I don't think you can correctly argue that the clock shouldn't have been stopped for the first down determination.

Agreed. The stoppage to spot the ball on a 4th down play & make the call was correct. After the call was made, the clock should have been restarted after the 1st down call & the ball spotted.

 

[switz]

Agreed. The stoppage to spot the ball on a 4th down play & make the call was correct. After the call was made, the clock should have been restarted after the 1st down call & the ball spotted.

And while that's debatable (if the ref was confirming the spotting which they can do), the pint is that even if it was started right away, it only would have given Brady less time for the last drive. Nothing else. It wouldn't have expired before the Giants scored.This is a really really really pathetic attempt by PAts fans to create an excuse for how badly they played in the SuperBowl...

 

[Road Warriors]

Agreed. The stoppage to spot the ball on a 4th down play & make the call was correct. After the call was made, the clock should have been restarted after the 1st down call & the ball spotted.

And while that's debatable (if the ref was confirming the spotting which they can do), the pint is that even if it was started right away, it only would have given Brady less time for the last drive. Nothing else. It wouldn't have expired before the Giants scored.This is a really really really pathetic attempt by PAts fans to create an excuse for how badly they played in the SuperBowl...

To be clear, I don't think this had an impact on the outcome. It was an anomoly in the flow of a critical drive. Discussing it doesn't mean making excuses. And its not at all debatable that, once the referee had confirmed the 1st, signaled the 1st, and spotted the ball, that the clock should have restarted.

 

[switz]

Agreed. The stoppage to spot the ball on a 4th down play & make the call was correct. After the call was made, the clock should have been restarted after the 1st down call & the ball spotted.

And while that's debatable (if the ref was confirming the spotting which they can do), the pint is that even if it was started right away, it only would have given Brady less time for the last drive. Nothing else. It wouldn't have expired before the Giants scored.This is a really really really pathetic attempt by PAts fans to create an excuse for how badly they played in the SuperBowl...

To be clear, I don't think this had an impact on the outcome. It was an anomoly in the flow of a critical drive. Discussing it doesn't mean making excuses. And its not at all debatable that, once the referee had confirmed the 1st, signaled the 1st, and spotted the ball, that the clock should have restarted.

I agree with that... I'm just not sure I agree with "when" that happened according to some of the other posters. I've seen refs spot the ball, signal the first, then go out and re-spot the ball... so I'm not so sure the clock starts as soon as they signal the first, if they are thinking of re-spotting the ball. Heck, none of us know what was going on in the refs head - but I don't question his integrity at all.Throughout the game, I heard no complaints about the officiating, even though I was one of only two people there rooting for NY. The day after, the vast majority was saying how excellent the officiating was.

Now a few days later, people are starting to blame the refs. Hey, to me that's just ridiculous... if there were flagrantly bad calls, people would have been shouting about it during the game. That's my take.

 

[fatness]

Petition to have final 1:40 reviewed

1838. Plaxico Burress: Hi Hobbs, remember me?

1893. Roger Goodell: Upon further review we have determined that we are unable to review the issue further because we have burned all video tapes of Super Bowl XLII

 

[Road Warriors]

I agree with that... I'm just not sure I agree with "when" that happened according to some of the other posters. I've seen refs spot the ball, signal the first, then go out and re-spot the ball... so I'm not so sure the clock starts as soon as they signal the first, if they are thinking of re-spotting the ball. Heck, none of us know what was going on in the refs head - but I don't question his integrity at all.

Throughout the game, I heard no complaints about the officiating, even though I was one of only two people there rooting for NY. The day after, the vast majority was saying how excellent the officiating was.

Now a few days later, people are starting to blame the refs. Hey, to me that's just ridiculous... if there were flagrantly bad calls, people would have been shouting about it during the game. That's my take.

The only thing we, as viewers, have to go on is the TV clock, which is not official. The real anomoly of this sequence, and you can see it on the earlier referenced video around the 4:20 mark, is that the TV clock doesn't restart until after the 5 yard Eli run. It may have been kept properly on the official time, but the TV clock stays at 1:28 until Eli is down after running the first down play.FWIW, for anyone to be claiming this is the reason the Pats lost ( or even a reason ) is way off base. I fully agree with the sentiment that this was a very well officiated game, probably one of the best of the year.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Pathetic.

Pat-thetic.