Pearl Harbor--Never Forget (1 Viewer)

[identikit]

84th anniversary today

I think, in many ways, from that moment on and what unfolded immediately after reminded the world of how great this country is

Even today, in this seemingly siloed environment, that magic that Ben Franklin warned us about our free country and that it would take great effort to keep it.

Most every day I worry (at least a little bit) about that 'keeping part'

We still have it. Our differences can't ever be more than that belief in us, America

Let us not forsake it. Cherish it. Live it

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Visited last year. Glad I did.

Never forget!

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Only 12 survivors left - none can attend the ceremony.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/12/07/us/pearl-harbour-bombing-anniversary-hnk

 

[Ilov80s]

It does feel like it's being forgotten. I think when I was growing up in the 80s, this and the assassination of JFK still held this massive place in the culture. There was still a lot "I remember where I was when it happened" with parents and grandparentss. Now as those generations age and pass on, it seems to be getting lost. I wonder if you asked a bunch of middle school kids about it, what % would be familiar with it.

 

[AAABatteries]

Only 12 survivors left - non can attend the ceremony.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/12/07/us/pearl-harbour-bombing-anniversary-hnk

My great-uncle DeWitt was a survivor but he passed many years ago. Greatest man I’ve ever known. RIP Uncle D.

 

[northern exposure]

As a Canadian, I'll keep my thoughts to myself and avoid a ban.

 

[fatness]

Only 12 survivors left - none can attend the ceremony.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/12/07/us/pearl-harbour-bombing-anniversary-hnk

Thanks for that. From the article:

Retired National Park Service Pearl Harbor historian Daniel Martinez said the circumstances resemble the early 20th century when Civil War veterans were dying in increasing numbers. Awareness grew that soon they wouldn’t be able to share their stories of Gettysburg and other battles, he said. Martinez knew something similar could happen with Pearl Harbor survivors and recorded their oral histories. During a 1998 convention, he conducted interviews 12 hours a day for three days. The Park Service today has nearly 800 interviews, most on video.

“They remain as a part of the national memory of a day that changed America and changed the world,” Martinez said. The Park Service shows some in its Pearl Harbor museum and aims to include more after renovations, said David Kilton, the agency’s Pearl Harbor interpretation, education and visitor services lead.

The Library of Congress has collections from 535 Pearl Harbor survivors, including interviews, letters, photos and diaries. Over 80% are online. They are part of the library’s Veterans History Project of firsthand recollections of veterans who served in World War I onward. Many were recorded by relatives, Eagle Scouts and other amateurs interested in documenting history.

Veterans History Project

 

[FarFromHome]

Thanks for posting. I spent all day asking my co workers what the significance is on December 7th. I followed it with an education. They loved it. Ha ha FDR did not want to jump into that war. This attack forced our hand and was arguably the biggest mistake Germany and Japan made in that war. Why not keep America on the sidelines until you obliterate everyone else? If you haven't been to the Pearl Harbor rememberance I strongly recommend it as a bucket list task. Just an amazing and overwhelming experience. All have some, some gave all. Always an emotional topic for me.

 

[Kanil]

Pearl Harbor is an incredible visit for those that haven't been. We spent 10 hours there seeing as much as we possibly could and could have done more but my wife's 80-year-old grandfather couldn't physically do it.

 

[nirad3]

I don't know if I really believe in past lives, but I swear every time I watch Pearl Harbor I get some very, very strong feelings. Almost like it is bringing up memories from another life. I have never been to Oahu but I would like to go see it before my time is up with THIS life. I bet I would have the same feelings.

 

[BLOCKED_PUNT]

FDR did not want to jump into that war. This attack forced our hand and was arguably the biggest mistake Germany and Japan made in that war.

there's a theory that FDR DID want to fight Hitler so we provoked Japan by stopping oil trade and thus Japan would never had preemptively attacked us if they had the oil they needed. Maybe war with Japan was inevitable though since the oil they needed was in British colonies in Asia. OTOH, we already were supplying the allies through the lend lease act and we were likely seen as a threat but I agree with you that it was probably a mistake. I know we didn't join until Pearl Harbor but would we have stayed out unless we were attacked? I'm not so sure but maybe? So I think you are correct to say that Japan badly miscalculated.

 

[BLOCKED_PUNT]

I know its a little cheesy in a way but thanks for your sevice and all. @FarFromHome

I know I've mentioned it before but my grandaddy was an engineer in the navy so ww2 holds some significance to me and gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling that he helped to defend our nation.

 

[FarFromHome]

FDR did not want to jump into that war. This attack forced our hand and was arguably the biggest mistake Germany and Japan made in that war.

there's a theory that FDR DID want to fight Hitler so we provoked Japan by stopping oil trade and thus Japan would never had preemptively attacked us if they had the oil they needed. Maybe war with Japan was enviable though since the oil they needed was in British colonies in Asia. OTOH, we already were supplying the allies through the lend lease act and we were likely seen as a threat but I agree with you that it was probably a mistake. I know we didn't join until Pearl Harbor but would we have stayed out unless we were attacked? I'm not so sure but maybe? So I think you are correct to say that Japan badly miscalculated.

I'm a big big history guy. Cant get enough. I've seen stuff saying that. I personally disagree. We were in the perfect spot. Supplying the good guys which increased our economy and risking no soldiers life. It was perfect. I guess only perfect if the end was victory for the allies. Like you said, who knows. Hitler needed to be stopped and my gut says it wouldn't have happened without us. All my opinion of course.

 

[Navin Johnson]

FDR did not want to jump into that war. This attack forced our hand and was arguably the biggest mistake Germany and Japan made in that war.

there's a theory that FDR DID want to fight Hitler so we provoked Japan by stopping oil trade and thus Japan would never had preemptively attacked us if they had the oil they needed. Maybe war with Japan was enviable though since the oil they needed was in British colonies in Asia. OTOH, we already were supplying the allies through the lend lease act and we were likely seen as a threat but I agree with you that it was probably a mistake. I know we didn't join until Pearl Harbor but would we have stayed out unless we were attacked? I'm not so sure but maybe? So I think you are correct to say that Japan badly miscalculated.

I'm a big big history guy. Cant get enough. I've seen stuff saying that. I personally disagree. We were in the perfect spot. Supplying the good guys which increased our economy and risking no soldiers life. It was perfect. I guess only perfect if the end was victory for the allies. Like you said, who knows. Hitler needed to be stopped and my gut says it wouldn't have happened without us. All my opinion of course.

The US was fine assisting both sides until Hitler broke the non aggression pact with the Soviets in June 1941. That was a big red flag for the US as it presented a scenario of the USSR expanding their sphere of influence. The embargo in Japan a month later is no coincidence. It was a passive aggressive act of war that we knew would draw us in one way or the other. The Allies probaby don't win without US entering, but they definitely don't win if Hitler doesn't break the pact with the Soviets.

 

[BLOCKED_PUNT]

As a Canadian, I'll keep my thoughts to myself and avoid a ban.

we can annex this, yes?

 

[northern exposure]

As a Canadian, I'll keep my thoughts to myself and avoid a ban.

we can annex this, yes?

Oh, hilarious.

 

[BLOCKED_PUNT]

As a Canadian, I'll keep my thoughts to myself and avoid a ban.

we can annex this, yes?

Oh, hilarious.

thanks. I'll be here all month.

 

[northern exposure]

As a Canadian, I'll keep my thoughts to myself and avoid a ban.

we can annex this, yes?

Oh, hilarious.

thanks. I'll be here all month.

Thanks for the warning....I'll stay away.

 

[Joe Bryant]

As a Canadian, I'll keep my thoughts to myself and avoid a ban.

Good idea.

 

[Joe Bryant]

It does feel like it's being forgotten. I think when I was growing up in the 80s, this and the assassination of JFK still held this massive place in the culture. There was still a lot "I remember where I was when it happened" with parents and grandparentss. Now as those generations age and pass on, it seems to be getting lost. I wonder if you asked a bunch of middle school kids about it, what % would be familiar with it.

It absolutely feels like it's being forgotten.

 

[northern exposure]

As a Canadian, I'll keep my thoughts to myself and avoid a ban.

Good idea.

I guess I have to show restraint, but others can openly make the "annex" joke. Even though it is an incredibly sore point for Canadians.
Since I'm in the minority, suppose I have to grin and bear it.

 

[HellToupee]

Only 12 survivors left - none can attend the ceremony.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/12/07/us/pearl-harbour-bombing-anniversary-hnk

Had to look it up because of your post but was surprised to see there are still 45,000 world war 2 veterans still alive

 

[beer 30]

FDR did not want to jump into that war. This attack forced our hand and was arguably the biggest mistake Germany and Japan made in that war.

there's a theory that FDR DID want to fight Hitler so we provoked Japan by stopping oil trade and thus Japan would never had preemptively attacked us if they had the oil they needed. Maybe war with Japan was inevitable though since the oil they needed was in British colonies in Asia. OTOH, we already were supplying the allies through the lend lease act and we were likely seen as a threat but I agree with you that it was probably a mistake. I know we didn't join until Pearl Harbor but would we have stayed out unless we were attacked? I'm not so sure but maybe? So I think you are correct to say that Japan badly miscalculated.

I was always under the impression FDR wanted to get in the war but didn't have the support to do so. He needed something like a Pearl Harbor to push the populace over the fence. I'm not saying Pearl Harbor was orchestrated to facilitate that outcome but looking back with the hindsight of history, you could see where there were opportunities to make Pearl aware of what was heading their way.

Anyway, I defer to @timschochet on this.

 

[ChicoCat]

I'm 51, so I grew up around people who fought in the War. I have a healthy respect for history and the significance of Pearl Harbor in regards to the War. That being said, its understandable why its importance in societal lexicon is waning.

 

[Fat Nick]

It does feel like it's being forgotten. I think when I was growing up in the 80s, this and the assassination of JFK still held this massive place in the culture. There was still a lot "I remember where I was when it happened" with parents and grandparentss. Now as those generations age and pass on, it seems to be getting lost. I wonder if you asked a bunch of middle school kids about it, what % would be familiar with it.

It absolutely feels like it's being forgotten.

Generally speaking, I agree - but...being a history buff and one who has the utmost respect for the greatest generation, I made for damn sure my son, 11, knows about the history of our country - especially WWII. I nearly teared up a few weeks ago when he asked me if I wanted to watch some WWII documentaries on Netflix.

I honestly don't know if our country as it is today could stomach some of the sacrifices we had to make to win that war.

 

[FarFromHome]

I was always under the impression FDR wanted to get in the war but didn't have the support to do so.

Depends on when specifically your asking I think. He was against it very early. Then the fear of Hitlers end game pushed him to plot with Mr. Churchill. Public opinion was against it so he remained neutral. I think in his perfect world we stay out, we supply the allies, the allies win. Pearl Habor forced his hand a bit. So much good reading material on different theories of this.

 

[Navin Johnson]

I was always under the impression FDR wanted to get in the war but didn't have the support to do so.

Depends on when specifically your asking I think. He was against it very early. Then the fear of Hitlers end game pushed him to plot with Mr. Churchill. Public opinion was against it so he remained neutral. I think in his perfect world we stay out, we supply the allies, the allies win. Pearl Habor forced his hand a bit. So much good reading material on different theories of this.

He feared the Soviets' end game far more than he feared Hitler's

 

[FarFromHome]

He feared the Soviets' end game far more than he feared Hitler's

Short answer I'll agree. Longer history with the Soviets then with Hitler. I do wonder if the Soviet end game has ever been a Holocaust though. The irony being we were alllied for at least a brief time with the Soviets in BOTH world wars.

 

[Joe Bryant]

It does feel like it's being forgotten. I think when I was growing up in the 80s, this and the assassination of JFK still held this massive place in the culture. There was still a lot "I remember where I was when it happened" with parents and grandparentss. Now as those generations age and pass on, it seems to be getting lost. I wonder if you asked a bunch of middle school kids about it, what % would be familiar with it.

It absolutely feels like it's being forgotten.

I honestly don't know if our country as it is today could stomach some of the sacrifices we had to make to win that war.

That's my worry too.

 

[beer 30]

I was always under the impression FDR wanted to get in the war but didn't have the support to do so.

Depends on when specifically your asking I think. He was against it very early. Then the fear of Hitlers end game pushed him to plot with Mr. Churchill. Public opinion was against it so he remained neutral. I think in his perfect world we stay out, we supply the allies, the allies win. Pearl Habor forced his hand a bit. So much good reading material on different theories of this.

He feared the Soviets' end game far more than he feared Hitler's

Shoulda listened to Patton

 

[glvsav37]

It always hits me when a PH survivor passes and he wants his remains to be placed there in the water with his brothers at arms. After all the years, and life that a survivor lived—family, children, grand and great grand children, careers, local impact—that that instance stayed with them so strongly that it was the only place they wanted to be resting forever.

 

[Ilov80s]

He feared the Soviets' end game far more than he feared Hitler's

Short answer I'll agree. Longer history with the Soviets then with Hitler. I do wonder if the Soviet end game has ever been a Holocaust though. The irony being we were alllied for at least a brief time with the Soviets in BOTH world wars.

Well the first war was a totally different thing since they were still under the Czar who's family was tied by marriage into the British royal family so it made sense there. WW2 was barely an alliance. More a case of Soviets getting stabbed in the back by Germany and coming for revenge. They held on to their neutrality with Japan for awhlile and Japan was planning to use the Soviets as a 3rd party to negotiate a conditional surrender but the Soviets, maybe spurred on by bad blood from The Russo-Japanese War ended up invading Japanese territory anyway and was coming for the main land leaving Japan with no choice. I know technically the US was allied with the Soviets during WW2 but only in the loosest sense and quite begrudgingly.

 

[Ilov80s]

I honestly don't know if our country as it is today could stomach some of the sacrifices we had to make to win that war.

There are a lot of people who talk a good game and harken back to the good old days and talk about how alpha they are but yeah, I don't tend to think most of them would be so enthusiastic about turning their webcams off and getting on the front line or getting a ration card or even buying government bonds to support the war. One suspects it would play out a lot like COVID with tons of infighting, complaining, conspiracy theories and scammers.

 

[FarFromHome]

I know technically the US was allied with the Soviets during WW2 but only in the loosest sense and quite begrudgingly.

Good post. I will say when you say "loosest" that loose relationship literally saved thousands of American soldiers from dying in overtaking Berlin. Soviets lost roughly 80000 soldiers in Berlin. Revenge? For sure. Hitler starting Operation Barbarossa waaaaaay to soon was a bigger mistake then Pearl Harbor. Imo. Really enjoy the conversation. Guilty about swaying from thread topic.

 

[Ilov80s]

I know technically the US was allied with the Soviets during WW2 but only in the loosest sense and quite begrudgingly.

Good post. I will say when you say "loosest" that loose relationship literally saved thousands of American soldiers from dying in overtaking Berlin. Soviets lost roughly 80000 soldiers in Berlin. Revenge? For sure. Hitler starting Operation Barbarossa waaaaaay to soon was a bigger mistake then Pearl Harbor. Imo. Really enjoy the conversation. Guilty about swaying from thread topic.

Oh yeah, the Soviets getting involved was huge. Even with the war with Japan. Bombs aside, Japan was likely done for anyway as the Sovets were coming for them from the opposite direction and a 2 front invasion of the mainland was going to happen. All in all what a disgusting waste of human life, time and production though. I hope we never see anything like it again.

 

[beer 30]

I will say when you say "loosest" that loose relationship literally saved thousands of American soldiers from dying in overtaking Berlin. Soviets lost roughly 80000 soldiers in Berlin. Revenge? For sure. Hitler starting Operation Barbarossa waaaaaay to soon was a bigger mistake then Pearl Harbor.

So since we're here, what happens if the Russians take their ball and go home ala WWI. Boot the German horde from Mother Russia but stop at the border because somehow Stalin grows a heart and feels bad for the losses already incurred and doesn't want to put the populace through any more hardship. How do you think it would play out from there?

 

[FarFromHome]

So since we're here, what happens if the Russians take their ball and go home ala WWI. Boot the German horde from Mother Russia but stop at the border because somehow Stalin grows a heart and feels bad for the losses already incurred and doesn't want to put the populace through any more hardship. How do you think it would play out from there?

If your asking honestly and I'm reading it correctly your asking what would WWII look like if Russia hadnt taken Berlin? First off, ZERO percent chance Stalin doesn't jump at the plunder he got from Berlin. In fact, dangling Berlin is the reason Russia was so involved. If they weren't promised Berlin who knows how this plays out. If they did leave before taking it the Allied forces would have still taken it. If I were to guess it would have been done way later though. We would have lost a lot of young men, but the end result would still be the same. I'm not an educated historian and my posts are my opinions based on what I've read or watched. One of the biggest reasons I love this site is that I learn alot from other posters. Never thought I'd comfortably gather info from internet posters, but here we are. Ha ha

 

[Fat Nick]

I honestly don't know if our country as it is today could stomach some of the sacrifices we had to make to win that war.

There are a lot of people who talk a good game and harken back to the good old days and talk about how alpha they are but yeah, I don't tend to think most of them would be so enthusiastic about turning their webcames off and getting on the front line or getting a ration card or even buying government bonds to support the war. One suspects it would play out a lot like COVID with tons of infighting, complaining, conspiracy theories and scammers.

Yep. Dan Carlin's podcast Hard Core History has a great episode on Nineveh, the largest city of the Assyrian empire. Long story short, the Assyrian empire was the dominant player in the world for a very very long time - far longer than the U.S. has been in that position. The basic premise is that cultures have a cycle of aggression/grit - where they have to fight for their land, their freedom, and their right to prosper. Then they move to an expansion of culture, civil liberties, etc. where they begin to value life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Over time, these values wash out the grit that made them great, and make their perceived "over-valuation" of life and happiness a weakness, which makes them ripe for conquest by other civilizations in the "grit" phase.

His point was that we have been the predominant world power for a fraction of the time of the Assyrians - but in some ways, our grit has already faded.

 

[Ilov80s]

I honestly don't know if our country as it is today could stomach some of the sacrifices we had to make to win that war.

There are a lot of people who talk a good game and harken back to the good old days and talk about how alpha they are but yeah, I don't tend to think most of them would be so enthusiastic about turning their webcames off and getting on the front line or getting a ration card or even buying government bonds to support the war. One suspects it would play out a lot like COVID with tons of infighting, complaining, conspiracy theories and scammers.

Yep. Dan Carlin's podcast Hard Core History has a great episode on Nineveh, the largest city of the Assyrian empire. Long story short, the Assyrian empire was the dominant player in the world for a very very long time - far longer than the U.S. has been in that position. The basic premise is that cultures have a cycle of aggression/grit - where they have to fight for their land, their freedom, and their right to prosper. Then they move to an expansion of culture, civil liberties, etc. where they begin to value life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Over time, these values wash out the grit that made them great, and make their perceived "over-valuation" of life and happiness a weakness, which makes them ripe for conquest by other civilizations in the "grit" phase.

His point was that we have been the predominant world power for a fraction of the time of the Assyrians - but in some ways, our grit has already faded.

Time moves faster than it did the, things change faster.

 

[BLOCKED_PUNT]

What about the movie? We can forget that Pearl Harbor, right?