People who deliberately lie and spread hate (1 Viewer)

[Philo Beddoe]

But I believe in that. It’s a debatable issue, but I am on the side of bailing out these loans. I don’t think that makes me a liar or a hater. 

I’m assuming and knowing your posting history, that the only reason you are for this is because you most likely have college age children. What would that make you? 

 

[Chaz McNulty]

I think people are confusing 'lie and spread hate' with 'they're vocal people on the other team'.  Just because AOC is way to the left of where you are politically comfortable, does not mean she is spreading hate.

And is Biden on the list because Trump is on the list?

 

[BladeRunner]

I think people are confusing 'lie and spread hate' with 'they're vocal people on the other team'.  Just because AOC is way to the left of where you are politically comfortable, does not mean she is spreading hate.

And is Biden on the list because Trump is on the list?

No.  It's the other way around.

And I'm pretty sure AOC is on the list because not only is she anti-sematic, she actively spreads lies (Crying at the border to an empty parking lot, for one) to push forth her brand of "left" - which is basically a smokescreen for far-left Socialism/Marxism/Communism.

Your sugar-coated "to the left of where you are" is just a smoke-screen for how far-left she actually is.

 

[Chaz McNulty]

No.  It's the other way around.

And I'm pretty sure AOC is on the list because not only is she anti-sematic, she actively spreads lies (Crying at the border to an empty parking lot, for one) to push forth her brand of "left" - which is basically a smokescreen for far-left Socialism/Marxism/Communism.

Your sugar-coated "to the left of where you are" is just a smoke-screen for how far-left she actually is.

So she is on the list because she is extreme left and you find people that are extreme left to be liars and hateful?

 

[BladeRunner]

So she is on the list because she is extreme left?

Although it's clear you didn't read my entire post, "extreme left" doesn't have a good track record.  See the entirety of the 20th century for details.

That and, of course, being an anti-Semite will get you on "the list".

And other lies, I don't know, like this. 

 

[Chaz McNulty]

Although it's clear you didn't read my entire post, "extreme left" doesn't have a good track record.  See the entirety of the 20th century for details.

That and, of course, being an anti-Semite will get you on "the list".

And other lies, I don't know, like this. 

Really?!?  Is that all you got.  

 

[BladeRunner]

Really?!?  Is that all you got.  

Well, that and the entire 20th century. 

 

[Philo Beddoe]

Deliberate lies from the left beloved corporate media hacks?

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1476949045629308934?s=20

 

[timschochet]

I’m assuming and knowing your posting history, that the only reason you are for this is because you most likely have college age children. What would that make you? 

I do have college age children but they have no student loans. So you’re wrong. 

I’m for paying off these loans for a variety of reasons, most of them economic. A primary one is that we’re seeing a significant gap in home buying in this generation because they can’t afford the down payments due to the heavy burden of student loans. Home buying is the main key to our economic stability as a nation. 

 

[Philo Beddoe]

I do have college age children but they have no student loans. So you’re wrong. 

I’m for paying off these loans for a variety of reasons, most of them economic. A primary one is that we’re seeing a significant gap in home buying in this generation because they can’t afford the down payments due to the heavy burden of student loans. Home buying is the main key to our economic stability as a nation. 

That’s economic illiteracy. You increase the pool of home buyers and the price of homes go up. Build more is the only solution but local and state governments make that difficult. I think you know this.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I do have college age children but they have no student loans. So you’re wrong. 

I’m for paying off these loans for a variety of reasons, most of them economic. A primary one is that we’re seeing a significant gap in home buying in this generation because they can’t afford the down payments due to the heavy burden of student loans. Home buying is the main key to our economic stability as a nation. 

Those of us who aren't interested in paying for some kid's college degree certainly aren't going to be persuaded by the argument that what we're really paying for is the kid's house.

Buy your own stuff.

 

[timschochet]

Those of us who aren't interested in paying for some kid's college degree certainly aren't going to be persuaded by the argument that what we're really paying for is the kid's house.

Buy your own stuff.

There’s a lot of stuff you’re paying for right now that you’re not interested in. That’s true of all of us. I’m trying to redirect money towards stabilizing and growing the economy. 

 

[timschochet]

That’s economic illiteracy. You increase the pool of home buyers and the price of homes go up. Build more is the only solution but local and state governments make that difficult. I think you know this.

I agree with you about state and local governments and I’m for lifting regulations- within reason. I am pretty much for the free marketplace- within reason. But I am also for relieving student loans. 
 

Using phrases like “economic illiteracy” is, IMO, unhelpful to an otherwise interesting discussion. It’s an insult. 

 

[Philo Beddoe]

I agree with you about state and local governments and I’m for lifting regulations- within reason. I am pretty much for the free marketplace- within reason. But I am also for relieving student loans. 
 

Using phrases like “economic illiteracy” is, IMO, unhelpful to an otherwise interesting discussion. It’s an insult. 

It was meant to be. I find it insulting you want people who didn’t have the opportunity to go to college to pay for those that did. 

 

[timschochet]

It was meant to be. I find it insulting you want people who didn’t have the opportunity to go to college to pay for those that did. 

I want you to pay for a lot of things you will never have the opportunity to do. I want you to pay for astronauts, and fighter pilots on carriers, and Navy Seals. 
I obviously had no intent to insult you personally; please don’t insult me. Thanks. 

 

[supermike80]

I want you to pay for a lot of things you will never have the opportunity to do. I want you to pay for astronauts, and fighter pilots on carriers, and Navy Seals. 
I obviously had no intent to insult you personally; please don’t insult me. Thanks. 

When did everyone get so sensitive all of a sudden?   Is this the new thing for 2022?  Did CNN just come out with an oped on this topic and its the new left rallying cry?

Note to everyone here.  You can insult me till you exhaust yourselves of it.  I dont care.  I'm a big boy and words on a message board are just that....words......

Tim you used to take the insults in stride....the whole "i know I am but what are you " thing.   That was alright.  What happened?

If we all just stop being so offended all the time.   Ugh.     

 

[timschochet]

When did everyone get so sensitive all of a sudden?   Is this the new thing for 2022?  Did CNN just come out with an oped on this topic and its the new left rallying cry?

Note to everyone here.  You can insult me till you exhaust yourselves of it.  I dont care.  I'm a big boy and words on a message board are just that....words......

Tim you used to take the insults in stride....the whole "i know I am but what are you " thing.   That was alright.  What happened?

If we all just stop being so offended all the time.   Ugh.     

I really don’t care. My point was that it doesn’t lead to great discussion. @Philo Beddoeis a smart guy and he has good points to make, some of which I agree with, some I don’t. The insults are unnecessary. 

 

[Boston]

I do have college age children but they have no student loans. So you’re wrong. 

I’m for paying off these loans for a variety of reasons, most of them economic. A primary one is that we’re seeing a significant gap in home buying in this generation because they can’t afford the down payments due to the heavy burden of student loans. Home buying is the main key to our economic stability as a nation. 

This topic infuriates me…it is complete BS…a few questions:

*If you do not change the cost of college how are you not right back in the same spot in the near future?

*Do you not see why those who worked their butts off to do the right thing and pay off their loans in a responsible manner would not be totally resentful?

*What is the lesson you are teaching those who don’t have to pay off those loans?  Every single one of these people had a choice and was not coerced into the decision they made…sorry, if you  did not think thru the fact that your $100,000 loan to study Feminist Poetry did not result in a job that pays $200,000 but you and your family made that choice so live with it…if someone decides to buy a Mercedes but has a Toyota Corolla budget can they get the Government to take care of that loan as well if they promise to buy a house?  By the way do we really want to give someone a loan to buy a house that is bigger then their college loan if they could not pay off that one?

The bottom line is that if you want to correct this issue focus on the cost of college not subsidizing it…too many of these schools are concerned with building luxury dorms, feeding the kids like they are dining out every night, adding 7 Assistant VP positions that are worthless and making sure that many of those positions are given to people with political connections so they can inflate their pensions…it is a complete racket and until that is addressed giving a generation a free pass is just foolish because nothing is accomplished other getting another trophy for doing nothing.

 

[Philo Beddoe]

I really don’t care. My point was that it doesn’t lead to great discussion. @Philo Beddoeis a smart guy and he has good points to make, some of which I agree with, some I don’t. The insults are unnecessary. 

It’s difficult to have a discussion with you because it is mostly conjecture.

The average monthly student loan payment is $393 per month. Credible

The average starting salary for a college graduate is $55,260 Think Impact

That’s over $4600 per month pre-tax.

I made less and paid more when I graduated.

Jo Jorgensen -

“Alexandra Ocasia Cortez recently said “I have over $17,000 in student loan debt, and I didn’t go to graduate school because I knew that getting another degree would drown me in debt that I would never be able to surpass. This is unacceptable.”

Rashida Tlaib similarly complained “I worked full time, Monday through Friday, and took weekend classes to get my law degree. And still, close to $200,000 in debt. And I still owe over $70,000, and most of it was interest.”

They both are calling for their debts (and other student debt) to be forgiven. They both get paid $174,000 a year. I'm very concerned that with that sort of salary, neither can figure out how to pay off their debts?

And yet they get to vote on the US budget.

One last important questions. There are plenty of people who scrimped and saved to put themselves or family members through college. Are they being punished for not taking out massive loans?

Could we solve this problem simply by the government not guaranteeing loans any more? Why can you default on any loan except for student loans?”

 

[The Big Donkey]

It’s difficult to have a discussion with you because it is mostly conjecture.

The average monthly student loan payment is $393 per month. Credible

The average starting salary for a college graduate is $55,260 Think Impact

That’s over $4600 per month pre-tax.

I made less and paid more when I graduated.

Jo Jorgensen -

“Alexandra Ocasia Cortez recently said “I have over $17,000 in student loan debt, and I didn’t go to graduate school because I knew that getting another degree would drown me in debt that I would never be able to surpass. This is unacceptable.”

Rashida Tlaib similarly complained “I worked full time, Monday through Friday, and took weekend classes to get my law degree. And still, close to $200,000 in debt. And I still owe over $70,000, and most of it was interest.”

They both are calling for their debts (and other student debt) to be forgiven. They both get paid $174,000 a year. I'm very concerned that with that sort of salary, neither can figure out how to pay off their debts?

And yet they get to vote on the US budget.

One last important questions. There are plenty of people who scrimped and saved to put themselves or family members through college. Are they being punished for not taking out massive loans?

Could we solve this problem simply by the government not guaranteeing loans any more? Why can you default on any loan except for student loans?”

 

[The Dude]

It’s difficult to have a discussion with you because it is mostly conjecture.

The average monthly student loan payment is $393 per month. Credible

The average starting salary for a college graduate is $55,260 Think Impact

That’s over $4600 per month pre-tax.

I made less and paid more when I graduated.

Jo Jorgensen -

“Alexandra Ocasia Cortez recently said “I have over $17,000 in student loan debt, and I didn’t go to graduate school because I knew that getting another degree would drown me in debt that I would never be able to surpass. This is unacceptable.”

Rashida Tlaib similarly complained “I worked full time, Monday through Friday, and took weekend classes to get my law degree. And still, close to $200,000 in debt. And I still owe over $70,000, and most of it was interest.”

They both are calling for their debts (and other student debt) to be forgiven. They both get paid $174,000 a year. I'm very concerned that with that sort of salary, neither can figure out how to pay off their debts?

And yet they get to vote on the US budget.

One last important questions. There are plenty of people who scrimped and saved to put themselves or family members through college. Are they being punished for not taking out massive loans?

Could we solve this problem simply by the government not guaranteeing loans any more? Why can you default on any loan except for student loans?”

I know you think that some type of jaw dropper - but there's minimal connection.

 

[Philo Beddoe]

I know you think that some type of jaw dropper - but there's minimal connection.

I don’t I didn’t write it. Curious that’s what you pulled from the entire post? Care to refute anything else?

 

[timschochet]

This topic infuriates me…it is complete BS…a few questions:

*If you do not change the cost of college how are you not right back in the same spot in the near future?

*Do you not see why those who worked their butts off to do the right thing and pay off their loans in a responsible manner would not be totally resentful?

*What is the lesson you are teaching those who don’t have to pay off those loans?  Every single one of these people had a choice and was not coerced into the decision they made…sorry, if you  did not think thru the fact that your $100,000 loan to study Feminist Poetry did not result in a job that pays $200,000 but you and your family made that choice so live with it…if someone decides to buy a Mercedes but has a Toyota Corolla budget can they get the Government to take care of that loan as well if they promise to buy a house?  By the way do we really want to give someone a loan to buy a house that is bigger then their college loan if they could not pay off that one?

The bottom line is that if you want to correct this issue focus on the cost of college not subsidizing it…too many of these schools are concerned with building luxury dorms, feeding the kids like they are dining out every night, adding 7 Assistant VP positions that are worthless and making sure that many of those positions are given to people with political connections so they can inflate their pensions…it is a complete racket and until that is addressed giving a generation a free pass is just foolish because nothing is accomplished other getting another trophy for doing nothing.

Thanks Boston. I will do my best to answer you.

1. I agree. It’s a separate topic however. But I’m open to discussing whatever options there are. 
 

2. Yes, absolutely. I get it. In fact I’m actually one of those people. But I think policy should be formulated based on what is in the best interests of the USA. If we consider justice, and what people really deserve, we will accomplish very little. For example, I think a very good case has been made by many people that blacks in this country deserve reparations for all the years of slavery and Jim Crow. But I’m opposed to that, even though justice demands it. Because it would be bad for the country. 
 

3. I’m not interested in passing laws in order to teach people lessons. That’s leftism, and I’m not for that. Again I’m interested in how we as a nation can benefit. 

 

[timschochet]

It’s difficult to have a discussion with you because it is mostly conjecture.

The average monthly student loan payment is $393 per month. Credible

The average starting salary for a college graduate is $55,260 Think Impact

That’s over $4600 per month pre-tax.

I made less and paid more when I graduated.

Jo Jorgensen -

“Alexandra Ocasia Cortez recently said “I have over $17,000 in student loan debt, and I didn’t go to graduate school because I knew that getting another degree would drown me in debt that I would never be able to surpass. This is unacceptable.”

Rashida Tlaib similarly complained “I worked full time, Monday through Friday, and took weekend classes to get my law degree. And still, close to $200,000 in debt. And I still owe over $70,000, and most of it was interest.”

They both are calling for their debts (and other student debt) to be forgiven. They both get paid $174,000 a year. I'm very concerned that with that sort of salary, neither can figure out how to pay off their debts?

And yet they get to vote on the US budget.

One last important questions. There are plenty of people who scrimped and saved to put themselves or family members through college. Are they being punished for not taking out massive loans?

Could we solve this problem simply by the government not guaranteeing loans any more? Why can you default on any loan except for student loans?”

I think that, to alleviate your concerns, we could place some reasonable limits on the relief, so that if you earned a large salary you wouldn’t be eligible. 
Im never opposed to compromise. 

 

[Philo Beddoe]

I think that, to alleviate your concerns, we could place some reasonable limits on the relief, so that if you earned a large salary you wouldn’t be eligible. 
Im never opposed to compromise. 

I don’t believe that trying to solve an issue created by the government with more government will ever solve the issue. 

How Unlimited Student Loans Drive Up Tuition

“Several recent studies have found evidence that other federal student aid programs drive of tuition increases. A 2015 study found that a dollar of subsidized (non-PLUS) student loans increases published tuition by 58 cents at a typical college, with larger effects once reductions in institutional financial aid are taken into account. An NBER paper issued last year concluded that changes to federal student loans are more than sufficient to explain tuition increases at private nonprofit colleges. And a 2014 analysis found that for-profit colleges eligible for federal student aid charged tuition 78% higher than that of similar but aid-ineligible institutions.”

 

[timschochet]

I don’t believe that trying to solve an issue created by the government with more government will ever solve the issue. 

How Unlimited Student Loans Drive Up Tuition

“Several recent studies have found evidence that other federal student aid programs drive of tuition increases. A 2015 study found that a dollar of subsidized (non-PLUS) student loans increases published tuition by 58 cents at a typical college, with larger effects once reductions in institutional financial aid are taken into account. An NBER paper issued last year concluded that changes to federal student loans are more than sufficient to explain tuition increases at private nonprofit colleges. And a 2014 analysis found that for-profit colleges eligible for federal student aid charged tuition 78% higher than that of similar but aid-ineligible institutions.”

OK we respectfully disagree. 
 

let’s get back to the point: that those in favor of this idea don’t belong on the list of haters and dividers. 

 

[Shula-holic]

It’s difficult to have a discussion with you because it is mostly conjecture.

The average monthly student loan payment is $393 per month. Credible

The average starting salary for a college graduate is $55,260 Think Impact

That’s over $4600 per month pre-tax.

I made less and paid more when I graduated.

Jo Jorgensen -

“Alexandra Ocasia Cortez recently said “I have over $17,000 in student loan debt, and I didn’t go to graduate school because I knew that getting another degree would drown me in debt that I would never be able to surpass. This is unacceptable.”

Rashida Tlaib similarly complained “I worked full time, Monday through Friday, and took weekend classes to get my law degree. And still, close to $200,000 in debt. And I still owe over $70,000, and most of it was interest.”

They both are calling for their debts (and other student debt) to be forgiven. They both get paid $174,000 a year. I'm very concerned that with that sort of salary, neither can figure out how to pay off their debts?

And yet they get to vote on the US budget.

One last important questions. There are plenty of people who scrimped and saved to put themselves or family members through college. Are they being punished for not taking out massive loans?

Could we solve this problem simply by the government not guaranteeing loans any more? Why can you default on any loan except for student loans?”

Really well put.  To forgive these debts, we would be incentivizing bad financial decisions by those who went to too expensive of a school or didn't save to pay theirs back.  

 

[The Dude]

I don’t I didn’t write it. Curious that’s what you pulled from the entire post? Care to refute anything else?

I think the $393 average is probably a little deceptive.  I would be curious about the average for people graduating in last 5 years.  And the terms  
 

the debt on student loans is crippling for a lot of people but I am not saying it should be forgiven.    I don’t know the answer but I hope there’s one better than letting people default

 

[thriftyrocker]

I think the $393 average is probably a little deceptive.  I would be curious about the average for people graduating in last 5 years.  And the terms  
 

the debt on student loans is crippling for a lot of people but I am not saying it should be forgiven.    I don’t know the answer but I hope there’s one better than letting people default

Lowered interest rates have had a positive effect. Those are due to go higher, which could make the situation worse. But recent history only slightly higher than $393.

https://educationdata.org/average-student-loan-debt-by-year

 

[Summer Wheat]

I do have college age children but they have no student loans. So you’re wrong. 

I’m for paying off these loans for a variety of reasons, most of them economic. A primary one is that we’re seeing a significant gap in home buying in this generation because they can’t afford the down payments due to the heavy burden of student loans. Home buying is the main key to our economic stability as a nation. 

We have to be more progressive and change the way people and our kids view college.  Right now most kids feel they are missing out if they don`t go to a 4 year university. That causes many to go into uneeded debt.

Community colleges for the first 2 years while working part time and then transferring to a college of your choice would change much of that.  Most parents who help pay would also welcome that but there seems to be a stigma about not going away.

Taking on debt is a personal choice.  I mean I would love a new loaded F-150 for 60K but I can`t afford it. 

 

[Boston]

I think that, to alleviate your concerns, we could place some reasonable limits on the relief, so that if you earned a large salary you wouldn’t be eligible. 
Im never opposed to compromise. 

How about trading some of the debt for community service...you work 10 hours a week cleaning up poor neighborhoods or painting houses or something like that and it can go against your loan.

Another thing that I think would be great is for the Ivy league schools and the other major institutions who are usually pretty vocal about how to change the world to step up and use their endowment money towards this...kind of how they have cigarette companies use their $ for the damage they have caused...a school like Harvard could lead the way...here is a list of some endowments:

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/the-short-list-college/articles/10-universities-with-the-biggest-endowments

https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2021/10/15/endowment-returns-soar-2021/

 

[timschochet]

How about trading some of the debt for community service...you work 10 hours a week cleaning up poor neighborhoods or painting houses or something like that and it can go against your loan.

Another thing that I think would be great is for the Ivy league schools and the other major institutions who are usually pretty vocal about how to change the world to step up and use their endowment money towards this...kind of how they have cigarette companies use their $ for the damage they have caused...a school like Harvard could lead the way...here is a list of some endowments:

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/the-short-list-college/articles/10-universities-with-the-biggest-endowments

https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2021/10/15/endowment-returns-soar-2021/

I like both of these ideas. It doesn’t change my thoughts on what the government should do, but I appreciate the creativity. 

 

[djmich]

I think it would be helpful when we talk about "government" and government programs that rather than saying government should provide this, or government should pay for that...we should just say something like I think the working taxpayers of America should pay for this.

Obviously, government has a role, it seems though we make it very easy for ourselves to dissociate government and the people that work to pay for it.  Both current people and future generations.

Its hard for me to make the words "I think the working taxpayers of America should pay off loans that students decided to take" sound good.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

It's like watching a car wreck.  That's why.  As much as you want to not look, you can't help yourself.  It's human nature.

You ever have that family member, or member of your friend circle that always thought he was the smartest person in the room? Always had a story to one up yours, always spoke to all the stuff he's read as some sort of personal resume?    You know the guy.  The one you are forced to tolerate because he's an in law, or a friend of a friend, and who most people just don't like?  That's Tim here.   

You didn’t really answer my question, but that’s OK

 

[HellToupee]

We have to be more progressive and change the way people and our kids view college.  Right now most kids feel they are missing out if they don`t go to a 4 year university. That causes many to go into uneeded debt.

This fairytale is drilled into their head by the school systems. They are lesser than f they don’t go to a 4 year school or even go to the right school. Get them on the hamster wheel of student loan debt. What started as good intentions has in a way become evil

 

[HellToupee]

I do have college age children but they have no student loans. So you’re wrong. 

I’m for paying off these loans for a variety of reasons, most of them economic. A primary one is that we’re seeing a significant gap in home buying in this generation because they can’t afford the down payments due to the heavy burden of student loans. Home buying is the main key to our economic stability as a nation. 

We went the same route but our kids have a very small stafford loan to have skin in the game. Home ownership or the idea of possibly owning your own home is very important. Dreams need to be kept alive. I think some sort of relief program , at the very least eliminating interest rates on loans, would be beneficial to our country 

 

[djmich]

So why don't we pay peoples interest on home loans?

 

[Summer Wheat]

We went the same route but our kids have a very small stafford loan to have skin in the game. Home ownership or the idea of possibly owning your own home is very important. Dreams need to be kept alive. I think some sort of relief program , at the very least eliminating interest rates on loans, would be beneficial to our country 

Bottom line is people should pay their bills.  That being said I am all for eliminating the interest on debt occured.

So much is uneeded debt as well.  I have friend who took huge loans to attend the school of their dreams.   One lady friend got a degree in photography from an out of state university.  It about 100K in debt and works at Costco now.  Another buddy of mine is more in debt and has changed careers twice in fields that do not require his degree.  

 

[dickey moe]

King Solomon

Leatherface

Conjoined twins operations

 

[Shula-holic]

So why don't we pay peoples interest on home loans?

Demographics, college students tend to vote for Democrats.  I view all of these pandering attempts cynically.  Why pay off the house of the welder in Oklahoma who isn't going to be a likely voter for you?

 

[Hot Diggity Dog]

So why don't we pay peoples interest on home loans?

We will when they can't afford that too.

 

[LawFitz]

I don’t believe that trying to solve an issue created by the government with more government will ever solve the issue. 

 

[timschochet]

It’s sounds good as a slogan, for some, but in reality it’s almost always wrong. 

 

[LawFitz]

It’s sounds good as a slogan, for some, but in reality it’s almost always [often] wrong. 

Fine. I'll concede with my bracketed clarification.

LMG (Less-is-More Govt) is a noble, strivable and broadly productive mindset in general - margins not always withstanding.

 

[timschochet]

Fine. I'll concede with my bracketed clarification.

LMG (Less-is-More Govt) is a noble, strivable and broadly productive mindset in general - margins not always withstanding.

I agree. As a Democrat I don’t always apply that rule to everything. But as a centrist who believes in capitalism and idolizes Ronald Reagan, I agree with you. 

 

[FBG Moderator]

It's like watching a car wreck.  That's why.  As much as you want to not look, you can't help yourself.  It's human nature.

You ever have that family member, or member of your friend circle that always thought he was the smartest person in the room? Always had a story to one up yours, always spoke to all the stuff he's read as some sort of personal resume?    You know the guy.  The one you are forced to tolerate because he's an in law, or a friend of a friend, and who most people just don't like?  That's Tim here.   

Disagree if you have a different opinion. And back it up. But be way more cool to other posters here if you come back.

 

[Stealthycat]

But I thought one way forward might be to realize that there are people out there, in the public arena, who deliberately seek to divide us, to spread anger and hatred around, and that they do this for their own selfish gain, either political or monetary or both.

the reasons behind it all is very important - power and money often lead the list

Democrats lied through their teeth everyday for 4 years of Trump trying to oust him .... Republican's will do similar before 2024 ... why? power - votes, control

Lies are incredible tools because the populace believe them

Of course, the solution is for everyone to have better morals/ethics .... but we've taken God out of so many things, how's that even possible anymore ?

 

[James Daulton]

the reasons behind it all is very important - power and money often lead the list

Democrats lied through their teeth everyday for 4 years of Trump trying to oust him .... Republican's will do similar before 2024 ... why? power - votes, control

Lies are incredible tools because the populace believe them

Of course, the solution is for everyone to have better morals/ethics .... but we've taken God out of so many things, how's that even possible anymore ?

The democrats lied about Trump?  So when Trump and his son said he didn't meet with Russians to get dirt on Hillary, that was the democrats lying?  When Trump denied Bannon shared polling info with the Russians, that was the democrats lying?

Complaining about the democrats lying about Trump when he actually sharpied up a weather map in an attempt to make himself look correct seems a weird take to me. 

 

[SoBeDad]

the reasons behind it all is very important - power and money often lead the list

Democrats lied through their teeth everyday for 4 years of Trump trying to oust him .... Republican's will do similar before 2024 ... why? power - votes, control

Lies are incredible tools because the populace believe them

Of course, the solution is for everyone to have better morals/ethics .... but we've taken God out of so many things, how's that even possible anymore ?

You're in a large minority of Americans (44%) who think a belief in God is necessary to be moral. Across countries,  that belief is strongly related to lower GDP, less strongly related to older age, lower education, and the ideological right. Is Sweden, in which only 9% say a belief in God is necessary in order to be moral and have good values that much worse morally than countries at 80%+ such as Indonesia, Nigeria, Tunisia, and Brazil? Where were evangelicals when Indians were being slaughtered (they weren't alone) and why were Southern Baptists supporters of Jim Crow until very late?

In my personal experiences, God has little to do with morality and lying. 

Evangelicals are especially prone to  disinformation:

>>A recent survey, conducted by the American Enterprise Institute, found that more than a quarter of white evangelicals believe that Donald Trump has been secretly battling “a group of child sex traffickers that include prominent Democrats and Hollywood elites,” a core tenet of the QAnon conspiracy theory.<<

https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2020/07/20/the-global-god-divide/

 

[BladeRunner]

The democrats lied about Trump?  So when Trump and his son said he didn't meet with Russians to get dirt on Hillary, that was the democrats lying?  When Trump denied Bannon shared polling info with the Russians, that was the democrats lying?

Complaining about the democrats lying about Trump when he actually sharpied up a weather map in an attempt to make himself look correct seems a weird take to me. 

Please take this to the revisionist history thread.

The Democrats actually commisdioned said Russians for The Dossier, which was discredited but yet was the basis of all of the lies said by the left over his entire term.

Your post indicates you still believe The Dossier.