Pete Carroll is a better HC than Mike Tomlin (1 Viewer)

[mad sweeney]

Tomlin took over a winning team with rock solid organization and a franchise QB. What did he really do other than drive the bus and keep it on the road?Take over Detroit, Cleveland or KC or what Carroll has done in Seattle..

While I agree that Tomlin inherited about as good a situation as you can possible imagine, talking like Carroll has set the world on fire in Seattle is a major overstatement. 22-23 in nearly three seasons, after taking over a 5-11 team, is an improvement, yes, but not worth gushing over.

Seahawks point differential those three seasons2010: -972011: +62012: +98 (so far)I bet you didn't know that, did you?

This is a great stat to look at, I'd like to go look at his time with the Pats and Jets and see how the numbers worked. One of the main complaints is that he took a great NE team and drove them downhill (he's done the opposite in Sesttle). I'd expect the numbers from that time to be reversed. Certainly not a smoking gun but its something people should be taking into account when trying to dismiss Carroll as a coach based on what he did 10+ years ago.

 

[Godsbrother]

Blue and Silver are way better colors than Black and Yellow. There's really no point to disputing this.

Are you really saying you like this uniform better than this uniform?

 

[doowain]

Love these moment in time/knee-jerk threads...Pete Carroll has been the epitome of average at every stop in the NFL. His career record is 55-54, 2-3 in the playoffs. At 61, he is what he is. Typical college coach who wins with superior talent but when the playing field is equal he's right at the line.

Pretty ignorant argument. This is the first time Pete has had total control. To say you can't learn anything from "college" is ridiculous. Sounds like you are upset someone suggested the steelers coach isn't good so as a defense you slam Carroll. Its cool, I understand you love your team...but you should really educate yourself on what other teams in the league are doing. It makes for a better overall experience.

 

[doowain]

Blue and Silver are way better colors than Black and Yellow. There's really no point to disputing this.

Are you really saying you like this uniform better than this uniform?

I do

 

[Hooper31]

Blue and Silver are way better colors than Black and Yellow. There's really no point to disputing this.

Are you really saying you like this uniform better than this uniform?

I said nothing about uniforms. I just said that one set of colors is better than another. I figured that if we're going to waste time on a topic like this we might as well waste time debating colors. Another worth while discussion: Which number is better? 5 or 6?

 

[mad sweeney]

Blue and Silver are way better colors than Black and Yellow. There's really no point to disputing this.

Are you really saying you like this uniform better than this uniform?

I said nothing about uniforms. I just said that one set of colors is better than another. I figured that if we're going to waste time on a topic like this we might as well waste time debating colors. Another worth while discussion: Which number is better? 5 or 6?

6 has a rounder, more relaxed shape more suited to summer months while 5 is definitely a mid-spring number by combining sharp edges and flat planes then shifting to an overlong curve. Probably popular in areas with a short spring and quickly arriving summer (like the SW). As for blue and silver, that's fine, but the silver should be another accent color. I don't like the symbol color change this year.

 

[Godsbrother]

Blue and Silver are way better colors than Black and Yellow. There's really no point to disputing this.

Are you really saying you like this uniform better than this uniform?

I said nothing about uniforms. I just said that one set of colors is better than another. I figured that if we're going to waste time on a topic like this we might as well waste time debating colors. Another worth while discussion: Which number is better? 5 or 6?

Me --> :whoosh:

 

[Bayhawks]

Tomlin took over a winning team with rock solid organization and a franchise QB. What did he really do other than drive the bus and keep it on the road?Take over Detroit, Cleveland or KC or what Carroll has done in Seattle..

If we're being technical, the team Tomlin took over was not a winning team. They were 8-8 in Cowher's last year.

 

[Bayhawks]

Tomlin inherited a superbowl caliber team, the ring was essentially handed to him on a silver platter.

The Steelers were 8-8 the year before Tomlin became HC. If that's a Super-Bowl caliber team, then the Cardinals, Eagles, Jets, Chargers, etc are Super Bowl caliber teams this year, because they were all .500 teams last year, too.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Steelers playing at HOME against a lame duck Charger team is not quite the same as a Seattle team flying cross country to play on the road in Miami, a tough place to play. And they lost by a FG. Looking at the results, tell me again which games Carroll didn't have his team ready to play hard? No losses by more than a touchdown, several tough close road losses, undefeated at home...Teams they have beaten include the Packers, Patriots and Bears. And if Russell Wilson played earlier in the season like he has now they those tough losses on the road (Arizona, St. Louis, etc) wouldn't have happened. They are a much better team now. I say Carroll has gotten his team ready every week.

You keep saying this like it's some big accomplishment. Carroll has his team ready to play every week. Does he get a cookie for that?

Yes he does. Compare that to Tomlin, or Jason Garrett. Teams can look great one week, then come out so flat in others that it's mind boggling. So in your analogy - Carroll gets a cookie, but no cookie for Tomlin.

If you think Seattle has never came out flat under Carroll, then you are mistaken. And Jason Garrett? I doubt anyone would rank him as anything more than a below average head coach, so at least half of the coaches in the league are gonna look good compared to him.

 

[Judge Smails]

Steelers playing at HOME against a lame duck Charger team is not quite the same as a Seattle team flying cross country to play on the road in Miami, a tough place to play. And they lost by a FG. Looking at the results, tell me again which games Carroll didn't have his team ready to play hard? No losses by more than a touchdown, several tough close road losses, undefeated at home...Teams they have beaten include the Packers, Patriots and Bears. And if Russell Wilson played earlier in the season like he has now they those tough losses on the road (Arizona, St. Louis, etc) wouldn't have happened. They are a much better team now. I say Carroll has gotten his team ready every week.

You keep saying this like it's some big accomplishment. Carroll has his team ready to play every week. Does he get a cookie for that?

Yes he does. Compare that to Tomlin, or Jason Garrett. Teams can look great one week, then come out so flat in others that it's mind boggling. So in your analogy - Carroll gets a cookie, but no cookie for Tomlin.

If you think Seattle has never came out flat under Carroll, then you are mistaken. And Jason Garrett? I doubt anyone would rank him as anything more than a below average head coach, so at least half of the coaches in the league are gonna look good compared to him.

Look game by game of Seattle's season to date. Obviously you understand most teams, including Seattle, play better at home. Show me one game where they came out flat and were bushwhacked. I'll wait.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Oh, so previous seasons where his teams came out flat for games don't count now?

 

[mad sweeney]

Oh, so previous seasons where his teams came out flat for games don't count now?

They count but you have to look at them as early steps in an overall picture. The team rubuilt and it took tie for the whole team to buy into the system. Progress, not perfection.

 

[Bayhawks]

Oh, so previous seasons where his teams came out flat for games don't count now?

They count but you have to look at them as early steps in an overall picture. The team rubuilt and it took tie for the whole team to buy into the system. Progress, not perfection.

So you're taking other factors into account when you consider Seattle, but not Pittsburgh? Otherwise, why wouldn't the amount of injuries they've dealt with (QB, RB, WR, O-line, Defense) this year be a factor in why they've been "flat" in some games?it seems like you are willing to look at Seattle's flaws and excuse Carroll for them, but Pittsburgh's flaws are Tomlin's fault.

 

[mad sweeney]

Oh, so previous seasons where his teams came out flat for games don't count now?

They count but you have to look at them as early steps in an overall picture. The team rubuilt and it took tie for the whole team to buy into the system. Progress, not perfection.

So you're taking other factors into account when you consider Seattle, but not Pittsburgh? Otherwise, why wouldn't the amount of injuries they've dealt with (QB, RB, WR, O-line, Defense) this year be a factor in why they've been "flat" in some games?it seems like you are willing to look at Seattle's flaws and excuse Carroll for them, but Pittsburgh's flaws are Tomlin's fault.

Can you provide me any examples of anything I wrote that actually backs up what you've just said about me? I haven't taken a position on who's the better coach, hell I don't think I've even said anything whatsoever about Tomlin. All I've done is counter claims of Pete being only an average coach mostly based on his time in the NFL over ten years ago without taking into account the progress and growth (and greater responsibilities) he's made as a coach on this go-around. Perhaps you've gotten me confused with other posters in this thread.eta: and no, I'm not taking any seasonal factors like injuries into account, other than quality of players inherited and subsequently released and replaced. However, having people in place to step up and replace injured starters and/or adjust plans to compensate is most certainly on the coach to some degree, varying on situation. I don't know what Tomlin's personnel responsibilities are so I don't know how responsible he is for having quality backups on the team and ready to play.

 

[ImTheScientist]

Blue and Silver are way better colors than Black and Yellow. There's really no point to disputing this.

Are you really saying you like this uniform better than this uniform?

For sure.

 

[Godsbrother]

Blue and Silver are way better colors than Black and Yellow. There's really no point to disputing this.

Are you really saying you like this uniform better than this uniform?

For sure.

Fair enough. To me, the lime green and snakeskin pattern going down the legs is but to each his own...

 

[CapnJB]

Blue and Silver are way better colors than Black and Yellow. There's really no point to disputing this.

Are you really saying you like this uniform better than this uniform?

Not every team makes great decisions all the time.

 

[ImTheScientist]

Blue and Silver are way better colors than Black and Yellow. There's really no point to disputing this.

Are you really saying you like this uniform better than this uniform?

Not every team makes great decisions all the time.

See.... I actually like those.... but I know Im in the minority. My wife hates them.

 

[Bayhawks]

Oh, so previous seasons where his teams came out flat for games don't count now?

They count but you have to look at them as early steps in an overall picture. The team rubuilt and it took tie for the whole team to buy into the system. Progress, not perfection.

So you're taking other factors into account when you consider Seattle, but not Pittsburgh? Otherwise, why wouldn't the amount of injuries they've dealt with (QB, RB, WR, O-line, Defense) this year be a factor in why they've been "flat" in some games?it seems like you are willing to look at Seattle's flaws and excuse Carroll for them, but Pittsburgh's flaws are Tomlin's fault.

Can you provide me any examples of anything I wrote that actually backs up what you've just said about me? I haven't taken a position on who's the better coach, hell I don't think I've even said anything whatsoever about Tomlin. All I've done is counter claims of Pete being only an average coach mostly based on his time in the NFL over ten years ago without taking into account the progress and growth (and greater responsibilities) he's made as a coach on this go-around. Perhaps you've gotten me confused with other posters in this thread.

My apologies. You are right; I combined some of your posts with those of other posters.

 

[asuterlowe]

Oh, so previous seasons where his teams came out flat for games don't count now?

They count but you have to look at them as early steps in an overall picture. The team rubuilt and it took tie for the whole team to buy into the system. Progress, not perfection.

So you're taking other factors into account when you consider Seattle, but not Pittsburgh? Otherwise, why wouldn't the amount of injuries they've dealt with (QB, RB, WR, O-line, Defense) this year be a factor in why they've been "flat" in some games?it seems like you are willing to look at Seattle's flaws and excuse Carroll for them, but Pittsburgh's flaws are Tomlin's fault.

Can you provide me any examples of anything I wrote that actually backs up what you've just said about me? I haven't taken a position on who's the better coach, hell I don't think I've even said anything whatsoever about Tomlin. All I've done is counter claims of Pete being only an average coach mostly based on his time in the NFL over ten years ago without taking into account the progress and growth (and greater responsibilities) he's made as a coach on this go-around. Perhaps you've gotten me confused with other posters in this thread.eta: and no, I'm not taking any seasonal factors like injuries into account, other than quality of players inherited and subsequently released and replaced. However, having people in place to step up and replace injured starters and/or adjust plans to compensate is most certainly on the coach to some degree, varying on situation. I don't know what Tomlin's personnel responsibilities are so I don't know how responsible he is for having quality backups on the team and ready to play.

Ugh I'm a Ravens fan and you're making me defend the Steeler's. This is ridiculous. You don't suffer the injuries that the Steelers have had on both sides of the ball and just insert backups and not have any drop off.I like Seattle, I think they are a great up and coming team and Carroll is a huge part of that. That said, without Marshawn this is not a playoff team. He commands the opposing defenses attention and is what is allowing Wilson to reach his potential. Now imagine losing Marshawn and parts of the Oline as well as major components of the defense.

I'm not even trying to say Carroll isn't the better coach, but to not take injuries into account is absurd

 

[Warrior]

I like both coaches, but have been extremely impressed with what Carroll has done in Seattle. Say what you want about his past, but some coaches, like players, do get better from experience.

Almost equal credit goes to GM Schneider who has helped identify and snatch talent out of the drafts and a little FA work. They've done this while nearly completely replacing the roster. Carroll as a coach still has a lot of learning to do, however. He at least has gotten better at challenges, but there are a ton of wtf moments every game.

Agreed, Schneider's drafting has been great and he's added some valuable pieces through FA as well. I assume that Carroll has some input on personell decisions as well, props to both of them for being able to identify talent.

Carroll has final say on personell.

So "ok, yeah I guess you can draft that player if you really want to" = great coach?

 

[mad sweeney]

Oh, so previous seasons where his teams came out flat for games don't count now?

They count but you have to look at them as early steps in an overall picture. The team rubuilt and it took tie for the whole team to buy into the system. Progress, not perfection.

So you're taking other factors into account when you consider Seattle, but not Pittsburgh? Otherwise, why wouldn't the amount of injuries they've dealt with (QB, RB, WR, O-line, Defense) this year be a factor in why they've been "flat" in some games?it seems like you are willing to look at Seattle's flaws and excuse Carroll for them, but Pittsburgh's flaws are Tomlin's fault.

Can you provide me any examples of anything I wrote that actually backs up what you've just said about me? I haven't taken a position on who's the better coach, hell I don't think I've even said anything whatsoever about Tomlin. All I've done is counter claims of Pete being only an average coach mostly based on his time in the NFL over ten years ago without taking into account the progress and growth (and greater responsibilities) he's made as a coach on this go-around. Perhaps you've gotten me confused with other posters in this thread.eta: and no, I'm not taking any seasonal factors like injuries into account, other than quality of players inherited and subsequently released and replaced. However, having people in place to step up and replace injured starters and/or adjust plans to compensate is most certainly on the coach to some degree, varying on situation. I don't know what Tomlin's personnel responsibilities are so I don't know how responsible he is for having quality backups on the team and ready to play.

Ugh I'm a Ravens fan and you're making me defend the Steeler's. This is ridiculous. You don't suffer the injuries that the Steelers have had on both sides of the ball and just insert backups and not have any drop off.I like Seattle, I think they are a great up and coming team and Carroll is a huge part of that. That said, without Marshawn this is not a playoff team. He commands the opposing defenses attention and is what is allowing Wilson to reach his potential. Now imagine losing Marshawn and parts of the Oline as well as major components of the defense.

I'm not even trying to say Carroll isn't the better coach, but to not take injuries into account is absurd

You're completely missing the point. I'm not judging a coach based on a season in which injuries paid a big part. The win/loss of a depleted team doesn't diminish the coach's ability to motivate his team to come out and play each week. I also didn't say anything whatsoever about not having dropoff.

 

[mad sweeney]

I like both coaches, but have been extremely impressed with what Carroll has done in Seattle. Say what you want about his past, but some coaches, like players, do get better from experience.

Almost equal credit goes to GM Schneider who has helped identify and snatch talent out of the drafts and a little FA work. They've done this while nearly completely replacing the roster. Carroll as a coach still has a lot of learning to do, however. He at least has gotten better at challenges, but there are a ton of wtf moments every game.

Agreed, Schneider's drafting has been great and he's added some valuable pieces through FA as well. I assume that Carroll has some input on personell decisions as well, props to both of them for being able to identify talent.

Carroll has final say on personell.

So "ok, yeah I guess you can draft that player if you really want to" = great coach?

Yeah, that's probably how it happens. Excellent point.

 

[pecorino]

more dumb football today for the steelers. do you blame antonio brown for his boneheadedness or blame the coaches? i think there is a lot of blame to go around and tomlin deserves at least some of it. meanwhile the seahawks post another 50.

 

[Judge Smails]

more dumb football today for the steelers. do you blame antonio brown for his boneheadedness or blame the coaches? i think there is a lot of blame to go around and tomlin deserves at least some of it. meanwhile the seahawks post another 50.

Team played hard - I don't fault Tomlin for this one.

 

[CapnJB]

For what it's worth, in regard to the injuries to the Steelers this year, the Seahawks ranked 27th last year and 24th in 2010 in the number of adjusted games lost to injuries (and 27th in 2009 as well). As a Seahawk fan I'm baffled how we can be this late in the season with team health as good as it is. *knocks on wood*

 

[Judge Smails]

 

[otb_lifer]

 

[proninja]

Tomlin took over a winning team with rock solid organization and a franchise QB. What did he really do other than drive the bus and keep it on the road?Take over Detroit, Cleveland or KC or what Carroll has done in Seattle..

While I agree that Tomlin inherited about as good a situation as you can possible imagine, talking like Carroll has set the world on fire in Seattle is a major overstatement. 22-23 in nearly three seasons, after taking over a 5-11 team, is an improvement, yes, but not worth gushing over.

Seahawks point differential those three seasons2010: -972011: +62012: +98 (so far)I bet you didn't know that, did you?

Nope. but I am pretty sure I don't care either.

Up to +160, which is #2 in the NFLJust throttled what was arguably the best team in the NFL before that gameOn a 3 game stretch that rivals anything any team has ever done in the regular season. #1 in DVOA#1 in scoring defenseThis team is young, its core is cheap, and it's going to grow together. It's got a huge chip on its shoulder. They very clearly respond to Pete's "always compete" mantra. You said a couple weeks ago that nothing Carroll has done is worth gushing over. Willing to admit you're wrong yet?

 

[Ghost Rider]

You said a couple weeks ago that nothing Carroll has done is worth gushing over.

I didn't say that. I said, "22-23 in nearly three seasons, after taking over a 5-11 team, is an improvement, yes, but not worth gushing over," which was me saying that his cumulative record to date (at the time) in Seattle was nothing to gush over, which WAS true. Unless a .500 record is something you frequently gush over. Having said that, it is impossible to deny how great Seattle has looked lately. The previous two weeks, it was easy to say, "Eh, it was against Arizona/Buffalo," but dismantling the 49ers the way they did last night was extremely impressive. If Seattle ever figures out how to play well consistently on the road, they could be a top NFC contender for years.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Pete Carroll is a better coach than most coaches, no shame in being a little worse than him. Mike Tomin is no slouch, he's gotta a long future in the game IMO.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Tomlin's got a ring - I'll give him that. Maybe that trumps all. But Carroll gets his team to play HARD each and every week. You never know what you get from the Steelers. Tomlin's rinse and repeat post game "we don't like it but we accept it" comments are laughable. No half time adjustments. He's not an offensive genius, Labeau runs the D, so what's his stamp again on this team?What Carroll is doing with a rookie QB and getting his team fired up every time they come out of the tunnel is way more impressive than what Tomlin is getting out of his squad. And I don't want to hear about injuries. If any HC.could be overrated with a SB ring, it's Tomlin.

Amen. I haven't liked Tomlin despite the SB ring and a 2nd appearance, he won't lose his job yet but something has gotta give soon. Ben does not seem happy either.

 

[Ben Stiller]

Pete Carroll, wild card winner! Crown his ###.

 

[SacramentoBob]

Just imagine if the Patriots hadn't fired Pete Carroll.

 

[proninja]

You guys might want to consider the age of this Seahawks team and the amount of cap room available next year before you type too much stuff that can be quoted in the next couple years

 

[Yenrub]

You guys might want to consider the age of this Seahawks team and the amount of cap room available next year before you type too much stuff that can be quoted in the next couple years

What are your thoughts on Pete’s in game decision making yesterday?

 

[Frenchy Fuqua]

You guys might want to consider the age of this Seahawks team and the amount of cap room available next year before you type too much stuff that can be quoted in the next couple years

How about considering the original argument...Pete Carroll, age 61, 58-54 career NFL record. 3-4 playoff recordvs.Mike Tomlin, age 40, 63-33 career NFL record. 5-3 playoff record. 2 trips to the SB, 1 win.

 

[ImTheScientist]

Pete did an amazing job this year.

 

[Faust]

Pete Carroll out as Seahawks head coach after 14 seasons, will remain with organization in adviser role

Excerpt:

Carroll, 72, narrowly missed the playoffs this season with a 9-8 record. In the last three years, the Seahawks put up a 25-26 record with just one playoff appearance. It has been a far cry from the run between 2012 and 2020 when the team won 68 percent of its games and had the second-best record in all of football during that span.

The Seahawks hit the greatest of heights in the mid-2010s with the Legion of Boom on defense and Russell Wilson and Marshawn Lynch on offense. Seattle won Super Bowl XLVIII over the Broncos and narrowly lost the following season to the Patriots in a game that wound up collapsing the burgeoning dynasty.

Carroll, the oldest coach in the NFL, signed a five-year contract extension in 2020. He finishes his career in Seattle with a regular-season record of 137-89-1. His overall regular-season record is 170-120-1, including three years in New England and a year as the Jets head coach in 1994.

 

[Faust]

Steelers head coach Mike Tomlin clinches 17th straight non-losing season to begin career

 

[urbanhack]

I just want to have as much energy as Pete when I’m 72

 

[fred_1_15301]

I just want to have as much energy as Pete when I’m 72

I would take just being alive at 72.

 

[Bri]

Weird thread, I see it's long time running.
I think they're simply two different styles.

Tomlin hasn't had a good QB since Ben was on his last legs and he still finds a way. With the poor QB play in the NFL today, I'd give that some extra credit here. Maybe in another time I'd pick Carroll, probably so

 

[JohnnyU]

Blue and Silver are way better colors than Black and Yellow. There's really no point to disputing this.

Are you really saying you like this uniform better than this uniform?

IMO historically Seattle's uniforms have been ugly. The Steeler's uniforms have always been cool to me.