Peterson v Lacy - The Redraft Throwdown (1 Viewer)

[unckeyherb]

This isn't even a debate for me. I don't even think Lacy is a 1st rounder.

Jesus Christ.

 

[tjnc09]

This is not scientific, but the best I can do to illustrate my point:

Lacy's long runs each game (concussion game excluded)

7, 13, 37, 13, 17, 56 (Chicago, horrible rush D), 11, 5, 17, 4, 11, 60 (Dallas, horrible rush D), 14, 17.

Rodgers will move that offense along but Lacy has a cap on his explosive plays.

ADP 2013:

78, 36, 9, 60, 31, 8, 17, 52, 18, 13, 22, 23

ADP 2012:

20, 6, 20, 18, 34, 32, 27, 64, 74, 61, 23, 82, 21, 28

You can honestly say you want Lacy with a better QB who can only break long runs against bottom tier rush teams vs ADP with that POTENTIAL for long plays every time he runs the ball? Keep in mind, those are the game highs. He easily has other 30,40,50 yard runs when the max is 60+. Lacy just does not have that second gear.

Ughhh...a few things:

1) You are pointing out that Lacy's two games with 50 yard runs were against the poor Dallas and Bears defense and so shouldn't count, but then left out the fact that of Peterson's 3 games with 50 yard runs, 1 was against that same Dallas defense, another against the 21st ranked Steelers defense, and then the 36 yard game was against the same poor Bears defense you already referenced.

2) Then, for no apparent reason, while comparing both players 2013 statistics, you throw in Adrian Peterson's once in a lifetime 2000+ record breaking stats.

You keep picking out self serving statistics, or at the very least highlight those that help your point while for no apparent reason discounting all those against it. We'll just agree to disagree, as trying to debate this style of defense is incredibly aggravating.

LOL, I picked 2012 because it was the year before. Here, I will go find Lacy's 2012 stats to compare. Might take me a while though so don't hold your breath.

They have one comparable year, 2013. You only opted to throw in 2012 as it's self-serving evidence.

Here is some more self-serving evidence:

All Peterson's longest play vs Lacy's. You were saying?

0-9 6 5.6% 0 0.0%

10-19 27 25.2% 10 66.7%

20-29 34 31.8% 1 6.7%

30-39 12 11.2% 2 13.3%

40-49 7 6.5% 0 0.0%

50-59 7 6.5% 1 6.7%

60-69 8 7.5% 1 6.7%

70-79 3 2.8% 0 0.0%

80-89 3 2.8% 0 0.0%

90+ 0 0.0% 0 0.0%

 

[Soulfly3]

Here is some more self-serving evidence:


All Peterson's longest play vs Lacy's. You were saying?

0-9 6 5.6% 0 0.0%

10-19 27 25.2% 10 66.7%

20-29 34 31.8% 1 6.7%

30-39 12 11.2% 2 13.3%

40-49 7 6.5% 0 0.0%

50-59 7 6.5% 1 6.7%

60-69 8 7.5% 1 6.7%

70-79 3 2.8% 0 0.0%

80-89 3 2.8% 0 0.0%

90+ 0 0.0% 0 0.0%

yet still ended up with the EXACT same number of fantasy points.

that is why there is a debate here. and it isn't a debate of who is more talented

 

[tjnc09]

Here is some more self-serving evidence:


All Peterson's longest play vs Lacy's. You were saying?

0-9 6 5.6% 0 0.0%

10-19 27 25.2% 10 66.7%

20-29 34 31.8% 1 6.7%

30-39 12 11.2% 2 13.3%

40-49 7 6.5% 0 0.0%

50-59 7 6.5% 1 6.7%

60-69 8 7.5% 1 6.7%

70-79 3 2.8% 0 0.0%

80-89 3 2.8% 0 0.0%

90+ 0 0.0% 0 0.0%

yet still ended up with the EXACT same number of fantasy points.

that is why there is a debate here. and it isn't a debate of who is more talented

Lacy played one more regular season game than ADP (~13.5 v ~12.5). The games Peterson missed were again Detroit (111 yds and 3 TDs first game and Phil where something called Matt Asiata had 33 touches for only 66 yards and 3 TDs. Can you imagine the game Peterson would have had against that defense touching the ball 33 times? But yeah, they ended up with EXACT same fantasy points. That is the important thing to look at

 

[Soulfly3]

Lacy played one more regular season game than ADP (~13.5 v ~12.5). The games Peterson missed were again Detroit (111 yds and 3 TDs first game and Phil where something called Matt Asiata had 33 touches for only 66 yards and 3 TDs. Can you imagine the game Peterson would have had against that defense touching the ball 33 times? But yeah, they ended up with EXACT same fantasy points. That is the important thing to look at

Lacy only had 5 more carries.

What's your next reasoning?

 

[False Start]

This isn't even a debate for me. I don't even think Lacy is a 1st rounder.

 

[Portis Homer]

This is not scientific, but the best I can do to illustrate my point:

Lacy's long runs each game (concussion game excluded)

7, 13, 37, 13, 17, 56 (Chicago, horrible rush D), 11, 5, 17, 4, 11, 60 (Dallas, horrible rush D), 14, 17.

Rodgers will move that offense along but Lacy has a cap on his explosive plays.

ADP 2013:

78, 36, 9, 60, 31, 8, 17, 52, 18, 13, 22, 23

ADP 2012:

20, 6, 20, 18, 34, 32, 27, 64, 74, 61, 23, 82, 21, 28

You can honestly say you want Lacy with a better QB who can only break long runs against bottom tier rush teams vs ADP with that POTENTIAL for long plays every time he runs the ball? Keep in mind, those are the game highs. He easily has other 30,40,50 yard runs when the max is 60+. Lacy just does not have that second gear.

Ughhh...a few things:

1) You are pointing out that Lacy's two games with 50 yard runs were against the poor Dallas and Bears defense and so shouldn't count, but then left out the fact that of Peterson's 3 games with 50 yard runs, 1 was against that same Dallas defense, another against the 21st ranked Steelers defense, and then the 36 yard game was against the same poor Bears defense you already referenced.

2) Then, for no apparent reason, while comparing both players 2013 statistics, you throw in Adrian Peterson's once in a lifetime 2000+ record breaking stats.

You keep picking out self serving statistics, or at the very least highlight those that help your point while for no apparent reason discounting all those against it. We'll just agree to disagree, as trying to debate this style of defense is incredibly aggravating.

LOL, I picked 2012 because it was the year before. Here, I will go find Lacy's 2012 stats to compare. Might take me a while though so don't hold your breath.

They have one comparable year, 2013. You only opted to throw in 2012 as it's self-serving evidence.

Here is some more self-serving evidence:

All Peterson's longest play vs Lacy's. You were saying?

0-9 6 5.6% 0 0.0%

10-19 27 25.2% 10 66.7%

20-29 34 31.8% 1 6.7%

30-39 12 11.2% 2 13.3%

40-49 7 6.5% 0 0.0%

50-59 7 6.5% 1 6.7%

60-69 8 7.5% 1 6.7%

70-79 3 2.8% 0 0.0%

80-89 3 2.8% 0 0.0%

90+ 0 0.0% 0 0.0%

I swear to god, have you read anything I've wrote?! Of course it's self serving.

First of all, you're using Peterson's career stats. He's 29, his runs in his prime years is not realistic, not to mention they include the Favre year's in a top offense (whereas my argument that his poor offense is a factor vs Lacy's strong offense). Use his 2013 percentages vs. Lacy, that is more realistic.

Second, for the MILLIONTH TIME, I agree Peterson will have more long runs than Lacy, that's not my argument.

 

[tjnc09]

Lacy played one more regular season game than ADP (~13.5 v ~12.5). The games Peterson missed were again Detroit (111 yds and 3 TDs first game and Phil where something called Matt Asiata had 33 touches for only 66 yards and 3 TDs. Can you imagine the game Peterson would have had against that defense touching the ball 33 times? But yeah, they ended up with EXACT same fantasy points. That is the important thing to look at

Lacy only had 5 more carries.

What's your next reasoning?

 

[tjnc09]

This is not scientific, but the best I can do to illustrate my point:

Lacy's long runs each game (concussion game excluded)

7, 13, 37, 13, 17, 56 (Chicago, horrible rush D), 11, 5, 17, 4, 11, 60 (Dallas, horrible rush D), 14, 17.

Rodgers will move that offense along but Lacy has a cap on his explosive plays.

ADP 2013:

78, 36, 9, 60, 31, 8, 17, 52, 18, 13, 22, 23

ADP 2012:

20, 6, 20, 18, 34, 32, 27, 64, 74, 61, 23, 82, 21, 28

You can honestly say you want Lacy with a better QB who can only break long runs against bottom tier rush teams vs ADP with that POTENTIAL for long plays every time he runs the ball? Keep in mind, those are the game highs. He easily has other 30,40,50 yard runs when the max is 60+. Lacy just does not have that second gear.

Ughhh...a few things:

1) You are pointing out that Lacy's two games with 50 yard runs were against the poor Dallas and Bears defense and so shouldn't count, but then left out the fact that of Peterson's 3 games with 50 yard runs, 1 was against that same Dallas defense, another against the 21st ranked Steelers defense, and then the 36 yard game was against the same poor Bears defense you already referenced.

2) Then, for no apparent reason, while comparing both players 2013 statistics, you throw in Adrian Peterson's once in a lifetime 2000+ record breaking stats.

You keep picking out self serving statistics, or at the very least highlight those that help your point while for no apparent reason discounting all those against it. We'll just agree to disagree, as trying to debate this style of defense is incredibly aggravating.

LOL, I picked 2012 because it was the year before. Here, I will go find Lacy's 2012 stats to compare. Might take me a while though so don't hold your breath.

They have one comparable year, 2013. You only opted to throw in 2012 as it's self-serving evidence.

Here is some more self-serving evidence:

All Peterson's longest play vs Lacy's. You were saying?

0-9 6 5.6% 0 0.0%

10-19 27 25.2% 10 66.7%

20-29 34 31.8% 1 6.7%

30-39 12 11.2% 2 13.3%

40-49 7 6.5% 0 0.0%

50-59 7 6.5% 1 6.7%

60-69 8 7.5% 1 6.7%

70-79 3 2.8% 0 0.0%

80-89 3 2.8% 0 0.0%

90+ 0 0.0% 0 0.0%

I swear to god, have you read anything I've wrote?! Of course it's self serving.

First of all, you're using Peterson's career stats. He's 29, his runs in his prime years is not realistic, not to mention they include the Favre year's in a top offense (whereas my argument that his poor offense is a factor vs Lacy's strong offense). Use his 2013 percentages vs. Lacy, that is more realistic.

Second, for the MILLIONTH TIME, I agree Peterson will have more long runs than Lacy, that's not my argument.

You think one year of data for Peterson is more credible than seven?

If I do a search, can I find a post from you prior to 2012 that said "He's 27, he's coming off major knee surgery less than a year ago and we should NOT look at his career stats to try to predict his 2012 stats. Throw those out. They mean nothing people!" ???

If there is a single person in this league that I believe will defy the mass assumptions of age + wear/tear on a RB, it's a guy who looked bionic accumulating 2300 yards in 2012. All this worry about his age and miles is nonsense to me. He defied all medical logic in 2012 and did what honestly no one else on this planet probably could do.

 

[Soulfly3]

Lacy played one more regular season game than ADP (~13.5 v ~12.5). The games Peterson missed were again Detroit (111 yds and 3 TDs first game and Phil where something called Matt Asiata had 33 touches for only 66 yards and 3 TDs. Can you imagine the game Peterson would have had against that defense touching the ball 33 times? But yeah, they ended up with EXACT same fantasy points. That is the important thing to look at

Lacy only had 5 more carries.

What's your next reasoning?

why is it funny?

you compared # of games played, saying Lacy played an entire game more... but really, he only had 5 more carries.

and with all those HUGE runs you discussed, he had not even ONE more fantasy point than Lacy.

 

[Portis Homer]

This is not scientific, but the best I can do to illustrate my point:

Lacy's long runs each game (concussion game excluded)

7, 13, 37, 13, 17, 56 (Chicago, horrible rush D), 11, 5, 17, 4, 11, 60 (Dallas, horrible rush D), 14, 17.

Rodgers will move that offense along but Lacy has a cap on his explosive plays.

ADP 2013:

78, 36, 9, 60, 31, 8, 17, 52, 18, 13, 22, 23

ADP 2012:

20, 6, 20, 18, 34, 32, 27, 64, 74, 61, 23, 82, 21, 28

You can honestly say you want Lacy with a better QB who can only break long runs against bottom tier rush teams vs ADP with that POTENTIAL for long plays every time he runs the ball? Keep in mind, those are the game highs. He easily has other 30,40,50 yard runs when the max is 60+. Lacy just does not have that second gear.

Ughhh...a few things:

1) You are pointing out that Lacy's two games with 50 yard runs were against the poor Dallas and Bears defense and so shouldn't count, but then left out the fact that of Peterson's 3 games with 50 yard runs, 1 was against that same Dallas defense, another against the 21st ranked Steelers defense, and then the 36 yard game was against the same poor Bears defense you already referenced.

2) Then, for no apparent reason, while comparing both players 2013 statistics, you throw in Adrian Peterson's once in a lifetime 2000+ record breaking stats.

You keep picking out self serving statistics, or at the very least highlight those that help your point while for no apparent reason discounting all those against it. We'll just agree to disagree, as trying to debate this style of defense is incredibly aggravating.

LOL, I picked 2012 because it was the year before. Here, I will go find Lacy's 2012 stats to compare. Might take me a while though so don't hold your breath.

They have one comparable year, 2013. You only opted to throw in 2012 as it's self-serving evidence.

Here is some more self-serving evidence:

All Peterson's longest play vs Lacy's. You were saying?

0-9 6 5.6% 0 0.0%

10-19 27 25.2% 10 66.7%

20-29 34 31.8% 1 6.7%

30-39 12 11.2% 2 13.3%

40-49 7 6.5% 0 0.0%

50-59 7 6.5% 1 6.7%

60-69 8 7.5% 1 6.7%

70-79 3 2.8% 0 0.0%

80-89 3 2.8% 0 0.0%

90+ 0 0.0% 0 0.0%

I swear to god, have you read anything I've wrote?! Of course it's self serving.

First of all, you're using Peterson's career stats. He's 29, his runs in his prime years is not realistic, not to mention they include the Favre year's in a top offense (whereas my argument that his poor offense is a factor vs Lacy's strong offense). Use his 2013 percentages vs. Lacy, that is more realistic.

Second, for the MILLIONTH TIME, I agree Peterson will have more long runs than Lacy, that's not my argument.

You think one year of data for Peterson is more credible than seven?

If I do a search, can I find a post from you prior to 2012 that said "He's 27, he's coming off major knee surgery less than a year ago and we should NOT look at his career stats to try to predict his 2012 stats. Throw those out. They mean nothing people!" ???

If there is a single person in this league that I believe will defy the mass assumptions of age + wear/tear on a RB, it's a guy who looked bionic accumulating 2300 yards in 2012. All this worry about his age and miles is nonsense to me. He defied all medical logic in 2012 and did what honestly no one else on this planet probably could do.

Yes I do. When discussing a 29 year old running back, I think your previous year of performance is a better indicator of your next year performance than your career statistics accumulated when you were in your prime or with a different supporting cast. I'm not sure why that is so laughable and deserving of one of your emoticon replies.

Correct, I did not think Peterson would rival or surpass his career averages coming off a serious knee injury. I was wrong. I still think it was sound logic, and in the future I again won't expect running backs coming off torn ACL's to match their previous year's statistics or have their best season.

If your entire argument is Adrian Peterson is a freak and is unstoppable and no statistical analysis or rational thought process is applicable so I win....then you win.

 

[tjnc09]

Lacy played one more regular season game than ADP (~13.5 v ~12.5). The games Peterson missed were again Detroit (111 yds and 3 TDs first game and Phil where something called Matt Asiata had 33 touches for only 66 yards and 3 TDs. Can you imagine the game Peterson would have had against that defense touching the ball 33 times? But yeah, they ended up with EXACT same fantasy points. That is the important thing to look at

Lacy only had 5 more carries.

What's your next reasoning?

why is it funny?

you compared # of games played, saying Lacy played an entire game more... but really, he only had 5 more carries.

and with all those HUGE runs you discussed, he had not even ONE more fantasy point than Lacy.

If Lacy played in essentially one more game than Peterson, wouldn't you expect Lacy to have MORE fantasy points? That seems reasonable, no?

 

[tjnc09]

This is not scientific, but the best I can do to illustrate my point:

Lacy's long runs each game (concussion game excluded)

7, 13, 37, 13, 17, 56 (Chicago, horrible rush D), 11, 5, 17, 4, 11, 60 (Dallas, horrible rush D), 14, 17.

Rodgers will move that offense along but Lacy has a cap on his explosive plays.

ADP 2013:

78, 36, 9, 60, 31, 8, 17, 52, 18, 13, 22, 23

ADP 2012:

20, 6, 20, 18, 34, 32, 27, 64, 74, 61, 23, 82, 21, 28

You can honestly say you want Lacy with a better QB who can only break long runs against bottom tier rush teams vs ADP with that POTENTIAL for long plays every time he runs the ball? Keep in mind, those are the game highs. He easily has other 30,40,50 yard runs when the max is 60+. Lacy just does not have that second gear.

Ughhh...a few things:

1) You are pointing out that Lacy's two games with 50 yard runs were against the poor Dallas and Bears defense and so shouldn't count, but then left out the fact that of Peterson's 3 games with 50 yard runs, 1 was against that same Dallas defense, another against the 21st ranked Steelers defense, and then the 36 yard game was against the same poor Bears defense you already referenced.

2) Then, for no apparent reason, while comparing both players 2013 statistics, you throw in Adrian Peterson's once in a lifetime 2000+ record breaking stats.

You keep picking out self serving statistics, or at the very least highlight those that help your point while for no apparent reason discounting all those against it. We'll just agree to disagree, as trying to debate this style of defense is incredibly aggravating.

LOL, I picked 2012 because it was the year before. Here, I will go find Lacy's 2012 stats to compare. Might take me a while though so don't hold your breath.

They have one comparable year, 2013. You only opted to throw in 2012 as it's self-serving evidence.

Here is some more self-serving evidence:

All Peterson's longest play vs Lacy's. You were saying?

0-9 6 5.6% 0 0.0%

10-19 27 25.2% 10 66.7%

20-29 34 31.8% 1 6.7%

30-39 12 11.2% 2 13.3%

40-49 7 6.5% 0 0.0%

50-59 7 6.5% 1 6.7%

60-69 8 7.5% 1 6.7%

70-79 3 2.8% 0 0.0%

80-89 3 2.8% 0 0.0%

90+ 0 0.0% 0 0.0%

I swear to god, have you read anything I've wrote?! Of course it's self serving.

First of all, you're using Peterson's career stats. He's 29, his runs in his prime years is not realistic, not to mention they include the Favre year's in a top offense (whereas my argument that his poor offense is a factor vs Lacy's strong offense). Use his 2013 percentages vs. Lacy, that is more realistic.

Second, for the MILLIONTH TIME, I agree Peterson will have more long runs than Lacy, that's not my argument.

You think one year of data for Peterson is more credible than seven?

If I do a search, can I find a post from you prior to 2012 that said "He's 27, he's coming off major knee surgery less than a year ago and we should NOT look at his career stats to try to predict his 2012 stats. Throw those out. They mean nothing people!" ???

If there is a single person in this league that I believe will defy the mass assumptions of age + wear/tear on a RB, it's a guy who looked bionic accumulating 2300 yards in 2012. All this worry about his age and miles is nonsense to me. He defied all medical logic in 2012 and did what honestly no one else on this planet probably could do.

Yes I do. When discussing a 29 year old running back, I think your previous year of performance is a better indicator of your next year performance than your career statistics accumulated when you were in your prime or with a different supporting cast. I'm not sure why that is so laughable and deserving of one of your emoticon replies.

Correct, I did not think Peterson would rival or surpass his career averages coming off a serious knee injury. I was wrong. I still think it was sound logic, and in the future I again won't expect running backs coming off torn ACL's to match their previous year's statistics or have their best season.

If your entire argument is Adrian Peterson is a freak and is unstoppable and no statistical analysis or rational thought process is applicable so I win....then you win.

lol, so you think Lacy playing only 8 games with Rodgers will be the same as playing 16 games?

And do you think Turner joining Minnesota is better or worse for ADP? What if Bridgewater starts?

Sure, 2013 and 2014 are identical situations for those two.

 

[Soulfly3]

Lacy played one more regular season game than ADP (~13.5 v ~12.5). The games Peterson missed were again Detroit (111 yds and 3 TDs first game and Phil where something called Matt Asiata had 33 touches for only 66 yards and 3 TDs. Can you imagine the game Peterson would have had against that defense touching the ball 33 times? But yeah, they ended up with EXACT same fantasy points. That is the important thing to look at

Lacy only had 5 more carries.

What's your next reasoning?

why is it funny?

you compared # of games played, saying Lacy played an entire game more... but really, he only had 5 more carries.

and with all those HUGE runs you discussed, he had not even ONE more fantasy point than Lacy.

If Lacy played in essentially one more game than Peterson, wouldn't you expect Lacy to have MORE fantasy points? That seems reasonable, no?

wouldn't it have MORE to do with carries than games? they were identical last season

 

[tjnc09]

Lacy played one more regular season game than ADP (~13.5 v ~12.5). The games Peterson missed were again Detroit (111 yds and 3 TDs first game and Phil where something called Matt Asiata had 33 touches for only 66 yards and 3 TDs. Can you imagine the game Peterson would have had against that defense touching the ball 33 times? But yeah, they ended up with EXACT same fantasy points. That is the important thing to look at

Lacy only had 5 more carries.

What's your next reasoning?

why is it funny?

you compared # of games played, saying Lacy played an entire game more... but really, he only had 5 more carries.

and with all those HUGE runs you discussed, he had not even ONE more fantasy point than Lacy.

If Lacy played in essentially one more game than Peterson, wouldn't you expect Lacy to have MORE fantasy points? That seems reasonable, no?

wouldn't it have MORE to do with carries than games? they were identical last season

No.

and Peterson would have cleaned up against Det and Phi if he were healthy.

 

[Chaka]

So the way I am reading this thread is that age is the only potential knock against Peterson, correct?

 

[Chaka]

Of the 26 RBs ahead of Peterson on the all time rushing almost all of them put up 1,000+ rushing yard seasons at 29 years old. And a whole bunch had monster years at that age, and beyond.

He's on that list for a reason.

 

[Biabreakable]

He's passing it off as a who do I draft at 1.03 when Charles and McCoy are gone question in a shark pool thread. Not sure how anyone would expect that he get serious answers.

Actually SHOCKED it took this long.

Because ya, this isnt a legit question and debate as you can see by the monotony of this thread. totally one sided.

move along.

lol, the Shark Pool police was trying to let us know how people should respond to a thread that shouldn't even be in the Shark Pool.And I answered your question. If you look at Tomlinson's production w Turner at similar stages in career as ADP, I think you are a fool to pass up that combination.

The Shark Pool, since I came here in 2004, is filled with comparisons between two players with similar ADPs during draft time. I don't feel like this is a WDIS thread.You're ignoring the fact Turner had Philip Rivers in the prime of his career alongside Vincent Jackson, rather than Matt Cassel. It is not the same situation. No one who slightly prefers Lacy in GB vs Peterson in Minny is a fool.

That's a strange argument considering Lacy didn't play with his elite QB half of last season and still fared okay. Why is it that can be ignored but ADP can't be successful without a household QB name even with his proven track record? He ran for over 2000 yards in 2012 after a serious knee injury with Christian Ponder as QB and added another 4.5 average in their lone Wild Card game with Joe Webb behind center. If it is anyone who has proven he can be the workhorse on a team with or without surrounding offensive talent, it's ADP.

1) You specifically referenced using LT's production with Norv as a baseline for AP this year, I'm pointing out that baseline included an Elite QB, great WR, and one of the greatest pass catching TEs of all time. He's getting Norv, but not elite pieces around him so TD breaking seasons in my opinion are not a good baseline.

I've never said he won't have a good year despite the poor offense. I have said I have him neck and neck as my RB3 and am breaking a tie. I clearly think he'll have a good year.

2) You lose me on the know Rodgers point. I'm not giving Lacy credit for his time without Rodgers. My whole argument is like him BECAUSE of the Rodgers led offense. Without Rodgers, I wouldn't even have Lacy in the discussion for RB3.

I would suggest you take a closer look at the supporting cast around Peterson now. I do not think calling the Vikings offense poor is an accurate description.

In the NFL, its starts and ends with a franchise QB. The Packers have one, Minnesota doesn't. That is it...period. Yeah, we can say one team has Patterson and a nice TE and all that but c/mon. Rodgers, Cobb, Nelson, Finley (maybe). There is no comparison.

You forgot the offensive line which is better than what the Packers have. Greg Jennings is very good as well.

The Vikings did get Teddy Bridgewater and everything is set up very well for any QB to be able to thrive in this offense.

To say there is no comparison solely because of the QB is short sighted at best.

Ask any NFL GM. It starts with QB/left tackle/DE. That is where you build a team. In the NFL today, understand this if you understand nothing else: YOU CANNNOT WIN IN THIS LEAGUE WITHOUT A TOP QB. You can say all you want about an o-line and Greg Jennings, there is NOBODY on the Vikings at QB that makes an opponent limited in what they can do to stop Patterson in the same way as ANY wr out there Rodgers is throwing to.

Look at teams like the Chiefs and Texans. Why can't they be top teams and truly contend? Because they have no QB, despite great players, great defense, great lines (at times). NO QB. Look at teams like the Patriots, Steelers, Chargers? Why are they always in the discussion even when their lines look terrible or they are decimated by injuries? Great QBs.

Winning games is not the issue here.

The issue is who will be the better player in FF points in 2014.

Your argument that Lacy has a better supporting cast than Peterson for scoring fantasy points because of having a better QB is not true. Many of the best fantasy seasons for a RB did not require good QB play to support it. See the Vikings in 2012 for example.

If TB does start at some point this season the Vikings are more likely to lean on the run, as most teams do when they are starting a rookie QB.

I know you already know these things.

 

[TwinTurbo]

So the way I am reading this thread is that age is the only potential knock against Peterson, correct?

Yes. There is no other legitimate argument to make against AD other than age and it's probably 1 or 2 seasons too early to make that argument. The guy still looks and plays like Superman.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

This seems pretty easy. In redraft it is Peterson. In dynasty it is Lacy.

Lacy has a Shaun Alexander type of feel to him. A very good RB in a great situation. It would not surprise me if Lacy has a year with the Packers at some point where he scores a combined 20 plus td's and puts up combined 2000 plus yards. He like Alexander are rare in terms of being big backs that are capable of playing all 3 downs and were used as such.

An argument could be made that Lacy could be the number 1 ranked dynasty RB, but in redraft take Peterson as he is still playing at an elite level and is a beast and you can't really lose doing so.

 

[Chaka]

This seems pretty easy. In redraft it is Peterson. In dynasty it is Lacy.

Lacy has a Shaun Alexander type of feel to him. A very good RB in a great situation. It would not surprise me if Lacy has a year with the Packers at some point where he scores a combined 20 plus td's and puts up combined 2000 plus yards. He like Alexander are rare in terms of being big backs that are capable of playing all 3 downs and were used as such.

An argument could be made that Lacy could be the number 1 ranked dynasty RB, but in redraft take Peterson as he is still playing at an elite level and is a beast and you can't really lose doing so.

In 14 years as an offensive coordinator and head coach Mike McCarthy had only Deuce McCallister reach 16 total TDs (2002) and only Deuce broke 2000 yards (2003). The next best is 11 TDs for Ryan Grant (2009) and Eddie Lacy (2013) and for yardage it's Ricky Williams with 1,756 (2001). And he's coached some pretty good RBs.

Just saying.

 

[John 14:6]

So the way I am reading this thread is that age is the only potential knock against Peterson, correct?

Yes. There is no other legitimate argument to make against AD other than age and it's probably 1 or 2 seasons too early to make that argument. The guy still looks and plays like Superman.

Yeah, people make the point that RBs fall off a cliff when they hit a certain age. They focus on the fall after, but forget that part of falling off a cliff means they were falling from extremely high up. though Peterson is getting up there in age, I think he'll keep producing monster seasons, batting injury, until he finally falls off that cliff.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

This seems pretty easy. In redraft it is Peterson. In dynasty it is Lacy.

Lacy has a Shaun Alexander type of feel to him. A very good RB in a great situation. It would not surprise me if Lacy has a year with the Packers at some point where he scores a combined 20 plus td's and puts up combined 2000 plus yards. He like Alexander are rare in terms of being big backs that are capable of playing all 3 downs and were used as such.

An argument could be made that Lacy could be the number 1 ranked dynasty RB, but in redraft take Peterson as he is still playing at an elite level and is a beast and you can't really lose doing so.

In 14 years as an offensive coordinator and head coach Mike McCarthy had only Deuce McCallister reach 16 total TDs (2002) and only Deuce broke 2000 yards (2003). The next best is 11 TDs for Ryan Grant (2009) and Eddie Lacy (2013) and for yardage it's Ricky Williams with 1,756 (2001). And he's coached some pretty good RBs.

Just saying.

Fair point, however how many times did he have a QB as good as Rogers and a RB as good as Lacy working together at the same time?

And in no way would I say that is a certainty for Lacy to do so, but I don't think it would surprise many people if it happened.

 

[Chaka]

This seems pretty easy. In redraft it is Peterson. In dynasty it is Lacy.

Lacy has a Shaun Alexander type of feel to him. A very good RB in a great situation. It would not surprise me if Lacy has a year with the Packers at some point where he scores a combined 20 plus td's and puts up combined 2000 plus yards. He like Alexander are rare in terms of being big backs that are capable of playing all 3 downs and were used as such.

An argument could be made that Lacy could be the number 1 ranked dynasty RB, but in redraft take Peterson as he is still playing at an elite level and is a beast and you can't really lose doing so.

In 14 years as an offensive coordinator and head coach Mike McCarthy had only Deuce McCallister reach 16 total TDs (2002) and only Deuce broke 2000 yards (2003). The next best is 11 TDs for Ryan Grant (2009) and Eddie Lacy (2013) and for yardage it's Ricky Williams with 1,756 (2001). And he's coached some pretty good RBs.

Just saying.

Fair point, however how many times did he have a QB as good as Rogers and a RB as good as Lacy working together at the same time?

And in no way would I say that is a certainty for Lacy to do so, but I don't think it would surprise many people if it happened.

I think that argument is hanging on a false hope. You could also ask how many times has a 2,000 yard 20 TD RB had a QB of Rodgers ability? Marshall Faulk and Kurt Warner immediately come to mind but I am not willing to call Eddie Lacy the next Marshall Faulk yet, are you? It looks like there have been 65 times where a RB has gone over 2,000 yards from scrimmage. I will look into the numbers to find other comps in another post.

But back to McCarthy he has had RBs who were easily as productive as Lacy multiple times. 2008 & 2009 with full seasons from both Rodgers and Grant and they never even sniffed 20 TDs or 2,000 yards. Grant's best season was 2009 with 1,450 & 11 and Rodgers putting up 4,400 yards and 30 TDs. To be fair Grant was never the receiver Lacy appears to be.

From 2001-2004 Aaron Brooks averaged 3,700 yards & 25 TDs and had Ricky Williams & Deuce McCallister at RB and 2002 & 2003 were the most productive years ever for a McCarthy RB 1,440 yards and 16 TDs for Deuce in 2002 & 2,157 yards & 8 for Deuce in 2003. Deuce and Ricky were easily as good and probably better than Lacy in the passing game.

The 20 TD and 2,000 number feels unrealistic particularly when we still don't know if Lacy is a truly special RB or just an above average guy. His overall metrics of 4.1 YPC and 7.3 YPR are, strictly speaking, middle of the road.

 

[Abraham]

This reminds me of the time we debated Willie Parker and Tomlinson because Parker had a good year one time.

 

[cstu]

It's as simple as this to me:

Both end up top 5 if they stay healthy, but AP has a higher ceiling. AP is more talented and has less competition in the offense.

 

[Chaka]

Player Year Yds TDs QB Yds TDsJ.Brown 1963 2131 15 Ryan 2193 26OJ 1975 2243 23 Ferguso 2426 25William Andrews 1981 2036 12 Bartkow 3829 30William Andrews 1983 2176 11 Bartkow 3741 24J.Wilder 1984 2229 13 DeBerg 3891 21Marcus 1985 2314 14 Wilson 3411 19Craig 1985 2066 15 Montana 3653 27Craig 1988 2036 10 Montana 3661 21T.Thomas 1991 2038 12 Kelly 4010 35T.Thomas 1992 2113 12 Kelly 3457 23Emmitt 1992 2048 19 Aikman 3445 23Emmitt 1995 2148 25 Aikman 3304 16T.Davis 1997 2037 15 Elway 3635 27Barry 1997 2358 14 Mitchel 3484 19T.Davis 1998 2225 23 Elway 3792 32Marshall 1998 2227 10 Manning 3739 26J.Anderson 1998 2165 16 Chandle 3722 28Garrison 1998 2105 9 Young 4170 36Marshall 1999 2429 12 Warner 4353 41Edge 1999 2139 17 Manning 4135 26Marshall 2000 2189 26 Warner 5377 37Edge 2000 2303 18 Manning 4413 33Priest 2001 2169 10 T.Green 3783 17Marshall 2001 2147 21 Warner 4830 36Priest 2002 2287 24 T.Green 3690 26LT 2002 2172 15 Brees 3284 17Priest 2003 2110 27 T.Green 4039 24LT 2003 2370 17 Brees 3205 20Deuce 2003 2157 8 Brooks 3546 24Ahman 2003 2250 20 Favre 3361 32Edge 2004 2031 9 Manning 4557 49Tiki 2005 2390 11 Eli 3762 24L.Johnson 2005 2093 21 T.Green 4014 17Tiki 2006 2127 5 Eli 3244 24S.Jackson 2006 2334 16 Bulger 4301 24LT 2006 2323 31 Rivers 3388 22L.Johnson 2006 2199 19 T.Green 3220 18A.Foster 2010 2220 18 Schaub 4370 24McCoy 2013 2146 11 Foles 4106 32AVERAGE 2187 16 Rodgers 4389 34So here are 39 seasons where a RB had 2000+ total yards with their QB passing yards and TDs. At the bottom is Rodgers average yards and TDs in his 5.5 seasons as a starter. There were 65 total seasons where a RB broke 2,000 yards but these are the 39 that had even a remotely comparable QB comp to Rodgers (making allowances for different eras).

This is totally unscientific but I'm gonna riff on this a bit. Feel free to play with the data yourselves and make other conclusions.

Rodgers career range in yardage is 3,922-4,643 and his range for TDs is 28-45. If you use those numbers as bookend for QB comps you find 13 QBs who put up 3,922 or more yards and had a RB put up over 2,000 yards

Those 13 RBs are Larry Johnson(2005, 21 TDs), Priest Holmes (2003, 27), Steven Jackson (2006, 16), Arian Foster (2010, 18), Edge (1999 17, 2000 18, 2004 9), McCoy (2013, 11), Thurman Thomas (1991, 12), Garrison Hearst (1998, 9), Marshall (1999 12, 2000 26, 2001 21).

If then take from those 13 seasons the QBs who put up 28 or more TDs you narrow it down to 8 seasons where QBs met or exceeded Rodgers AND had a RB who put up 2,000 or more yards (2 of those RBs put up 20 or more TDs, both were Marshall Faulk in 2000 & 2001).

Those 8 RBs are McCoy (2013), Edge (2000 & 2004), Thurman Thomas (1991), Garrison Hearst (1998), Marshall (1999, 2000, 2001).

Personally I am not ready to put Lacy in the category of any of those 9 RBs just yet but that could change over time.

Seems to me that as long as Rodgers is the QB, Lacy isn't going to sniff 2,000 or 20 TDs.

 

[Chaka]

Here are the numbers for RBs who have scored 20 or more TDs in a season.

Player Year Total TDs Total Yds QB Pass Yds Pass TDsLenny Moore 1964 20 1056 Unitas 2824 19Gale Sayers 1965 22 1374 Bukich 2845 11Jim Brown 1965 21 1872 F.Ryan 2300 22Leroy Kelly 1968 20 1536 Nelsen 2864 22Chuck Foreman 1975 22 1761 Tarkent 2994 25O.J. Simpson 1975 23 2243 Ferguso 2426 25John Riggins 1983 24 1376 Theisma 3714 29Eric Dickerson 1983 20 2212 Ferraga 3276 22Joe Morris 1985 21 1548 Simms 3829 22Emmitt Smith 1994 22 1825 Aikman 3461 19Emmitt Smith 1995 25 2148 Aikman 3304 16Terry Allen 1996 21 1547 Frerott 3453 12Terrell Davis 1998 23 2225 Elway 3792 32Marshall Faulk 2000 26 2189 Warner 5377 37Marshall Faulk 2001 21 2147 Warner 4830 36Priest Holmes 2002 24 2287 T.Green 3690 26Priest Holmes 2003 27 2110 T.Green 4039 24Ahman Green 2003 20 2250 Favre 3361 32Shaun Alexander 2004 20 1866 Hasselb 3715 23Larry Johnson 2005 21 2093 T.Green 4014 17Tomlinson 2005 20 1832 Brees 3576 24Shaun Alexander 2005 28 1958 Hasselb 3459 24Tomlinson 2006 31 2326 Rivers 3388 22D.Williams 2008 20 1636 Delhomm 3288 15LeSean McCoy 2011 20 1624 Vick/Yo 4169 23AVERAGE 22 1882 A.Rodgers 4339 34Again using the logic from my post above for seasons where a QB has put up a minimum of 3,922 yards and 28 TDs (Rodgers career lows) there are only five instances of that QB also having a RB that put 20 or more TDs.

Priest Holmes 2003, 2110 yards, 27 TDs

Larry Johnson 2005, 2093 yards, 21 TDs

LeSean McCoy 2011, 1624 yards, 20 TDs

Marshall Faulk 2000, 2189 yards, 26 TDs

Marshall Faulk 2001, 2147, 21 TDs

I am not hopeful that Eddie Lacy will ever reach 2,000 total yards OR 20 TDs in any given season.

I think he caps out around 1,700 yards & 17 TDs, worthy of #1 overall RB numbers in a given year, no doubt.

 

[Chaka]

And finally, in 17 seasons as a head coach or offensive coordinator WHILE ALSO having a primary lead back (as in not a committee of Amos Zeroue, Tyrone Wheatley & Zack Crockett, or Ricky Ervins, James Brooks and Brian Mitchell or Matthews, Tolbert & Sproles), Norv has had a single running back either crack 2,000 total yards OR 20 TDs five times.

Emmitt Smith 1992, 2,048 yds, 19 TDs - Aikman 63.8%, 3,445 yds, 7.3 y/a, 23 TD 14 int

Terry Allen 1996, 1,547 yds, 21 TDs - Gus Frerotte 57.4%, 3,453 yds, 7.3 y/a, 12 TD 11 int

Stephen Davis (14 games) Skip Hicks (2 games) 1999 1,845 yards, 20 TDs - Brad Johnson 60.9%, 4,005 yds, 7.7 y/a, 24 TD13 int

Ricky Williams 2002, 2,216 yds, 17 TDs - Jay Fiedler/Ray Lucas, 59.6%. 3,069 yds, 6.7 y/a, 18 TD 15 int

Frank Gore 2006, 2,180 yds, 9 TDs - Alex Smith, 58.1%, 2,890 yds, 6.5 y/a, 16 TD 16 int

ETA: QB info

 

[Chaka]

Okay, okay, okay...I took my Norv analysis a little bit deeper. I am in the camp that believes that a QBs Y/A is one of the primary indicators of their overall success. The guys who can push the ball down field consistently are more successful and I believe that, more than QB yards or TDs is a better indicator of the success of a QB. FTR Aaron Rodgers has a career 8.2 Y/A.

Right now Matt Cassel, Christian Ponder and Teddy Bridgewater are Minn's QBs and Cassel is the starter and he has a career 6.7 Y/A. If you remove his years in New England (where he had a 7.1 Y/A) it drops down to 6.5 Y/A. Ponder's career Y/A is 6.4. It is tough to gauge what Bridgewater's Y/A will be but I think he will definitely see a significant dip in his college Y/A of 8.6. Since I don't want to get into the Magic 8-Ball field I am sticking with Ponder and Cassel as the benchmark because their Y/As are decidedly below average. Serviceable would be the kindest think I could say about Cassel and Ponder. Not Joey Harrington bad (5.8 Y/A) but nothing to hang their hat on.

So I broke down all of Norv's QBs by their Y/A in the season Norv coached them and then checked the stats of the RBs in that offense. The goal was to try and gain a realistic guess as to what we could expect from a Norv RB depending on the QBs Y/A.

So when Norv's QBs have a 6.7 Y/A or worse the RB, on average, produces 1,719 total yards and 10 TDs (10 seasons in data set)

When his QB has a 6.6 Y/A or worse the RB produces 1,686 yards and 9 TDs (6 seasons)

When his QB has a 6.5 or worse the RB 1,808 yards* and 8 TDs (4 seasons)

And just for ####s and giggles if you think Bridgewater will start a large portion of games and give the team an overall average of 6.9 Y/A. In that circumstance Norv's RBs average 1,711 yards and 13 TDs (3 seasons).

*The impact of Frank Gore's 2006 season with Alex Smith 2,180 yards (6.5 Y/A) and 9 TDs clearly has a significant impact on this small data set. The plus side is that this demonstrates that Norv can get 2,000+ yards out of a RB even with a mediocre QB.

 

[Chaka]

Ultimately analyses like this don't mean a hill of beans but my personal feeling is that Peterson's floor is maybe 1,700 yards & 10 TDs (both well below his career average of 1,834 & 14). I am not comfortable saying that Lacy's floor is anywhere near 1,700 yards. If I am being generous I think Lacy's floor is 1,430 yards & 9 TDs but as he only has one year of data it is very difficult to say that with a ton of confidence. Either way I firmly believe that Peterson is a superior running back at this point in their careers*.

*Peterson put up 1,609 yards & 13 TDs as a rookie with Tarvaris Jackson, Kelly Holcomb and Brooks Bollinger as his QBs.

ETA: Just to throw a little fuel on the fire; if you prorate Lacy's numbers without Rodgers it would work out to 1,554 yards and 14 TDs over a full season, which is much more in line with Peterson's numbers as a rookie. Then again Peterson put up a 5.6 YPC and 14.1 YPC while Lacy was at 4 YPC & 7.3 YPR.

 

[tjnc09]

Solid start by Lacy tonight.

12/34 2.8 ypc (Starks had 7/37 for comparison)

3/11 rec (Starks 2/11)

Kuhn vultured a TD

Concussed

 

[sn0mm1s]

This isn't even a debate for me. I don't even think Lacy is a 1st rounder.

woah woah woah...

what?

This isn't even a debate for me. I don't even think Lacy is a 1st rounder.

Jesus Christ.

This isn't even a debate for me. I don't even think Lacy is a 1st rounder.

 

[Reegus]

This isn't even a debate for me. I don't even think Lacy is a 1st rounder.

woah woah woah...

what?

This isn't even a debate for me. I don't even think Lacy is a 1st rounder.

Jesus Christ.

This isn't even a debate for me. I don't even think Lacy is a 1st rounder.

So you claim victory after week one versus the top defense in the league? Do you have down syndrome?

 

[ponchsox]

He's officially a bust. 1 bad game against the best D in the league.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

This isn't even a debate for me. I don't even think Lacy is a 1st rounder.

Jesus Christ.

Omg how did i miss this thread?

 

[Chaka]

I think it's hilarious when people prance around like they are the ####-of-the-walk after one game.

 

[unckeyherb]

This isn't even a debate for me. I don't even think Lacy is a 1st rounder.

Jesus Christ.

Omg how did i miss this thread?

Don't know but wish you'd continue to miss it. The self stroking after a bad week one game against the best defense in the league is ridiculous. If he continues to get vultured by Kuhn and performs badly against an average defense, I'll eat crow. When he goes 100+/TD next week you'll be on the side of a milk carton. so lame.

 

[tjnc09]

This isn't even a debate for me. I don't even think Lacy is a 1st rounder.

woah woah woah...

what?

This isn't even a debate for me. I don't even think Lacy is a 1st rounder.

Jesus Christ.

This isn't even a debate for me. I don't even think Lacy is a 1st rounder.

So you claim victory after week one versus the top defense in the league? Do you have down syndrome?

Starks looked better than Lacy and Kuhn vultured a TD. No, victory is not won after week 1 but these points were addressed before the season - who exactly is going to be taking carries away from Peterson especially around the goalline? Lacy is going to be competing with Kuhn and Rodgers at the goalline all season and Starks in other situations. Gerhardt, a capable backup, no longer plays in Minnesota.

 

[Chaka]

This isn't even a debate for me. I don't even think Lacy is a 1st rounder.

woah woah woah...

what?

This isn't even a debate for me. I don't even think Lacy is a 1st rounder.

Jesus Christ.

This isn't even a debate for me. I don't even think Lacy is a 1st rounder.

So you claim victory after week one versus the top defense in the league? Do you have down syndrome?

Starks looked better than Lacy and Kuhn vultured a TD. No, victory is not won after week 1 but these points were addressed before the season - who exactly is going to be taking carries away from Peterson especially around the goalline? Lacy is going to be competing with Kuhn and Rodgers at the goalline all season and Starks in other situations. Gerhardt, a capable backup, no longer plays in Minnesota.

Which team is going to be near the goal line more, Minnesota or Green Bay?

 

[chinawildman]

I took ADP. But cmon let's wait a few weeks before even considering any chest thumps ok?

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

This isn't even a debate for me. I don't even think Lacy is a 1st rounder.

Jesus Christ.

Omg how did i miss this thread?

Don't know but wish you'd continue to miss it. The self stroking after a bad week one game against the best defense in the league is ridiculous. If he continues to get vultured by Kuhn and performs badly against an average defense, I'll eat crow. When he goes 100+/TD next week you'll be on the side of a milk carton. so lame.

Yeah, i'll be lookin for that

 

[OU#1]

AD by a mile, but buy low on Lacy. Good luck finding a mindless owner who is that panic stricken though. Everybody knows SEA has the best D in the league....

Rodgers did pretty poor too...buy low if you can. Again, good luck with that.

 

[tjnc09]

Which team is going to be near the goal line more, Minnesota or Green Bay?

I definitely like Lacy a lot (my #4 RB) but there are some blemishes, first being his rather pedestrian YPC and YPR numbers from last season. Another is McCarthy's history of favoring the pass in the red zone.

You can't make either complaint about Peterson and while I agree that the wheels have to fall off at some point why do you believe this is that point?

Isn't your question offset by information you provided about McCarthy?

 

[Chaka]

Which team is going to be near the goal line more, Minnesota or Green Bay?

I definitely like Lacy a lot (my #4 RB) but there are some blemishes, first being his rather pedestrian YPC and YPR numbers from last season. Another is McCarthy's history of favoring the pass in the red zone.

You can't make either complaint about Peterson and while I agree that the wheels have to fall off at some point why do you believe this is that point?

Isn't your question offset by information you provided about McCarthy?

Not really. I understand the logic of people who like Lacy's chances to score double digit TDs because Green Bay is probably going to score a ton of points. I understand the logic of people who prefer ADP because he should get a bigger portion of a smaller pie.

Personally I liked ADP over Lacy then, and I still do, but I would not be shocked if Lacy had a better fantasy season.

 

[Soulfly3]

Well...

between this and the Gordon situation, I may be 2 for 2 on indirect correctness for the season.

 

[ponchsox]

Oof.

 

[dschuler]

This is not scientific, but the best I can do to illustrate my point:

Lacy's long runs each game (concussion game excluded)

7, 13, 37, 13, 17, 56 (Chicago, horrible rush D), 11, 5, 17, 4, 11, 60 (Dallas, horrible rush D), 14, 17.

Rodgers will move that offense along but Lacy has a cap on his explosive plays.

ADP 2013:

78, 36, 9, 60, 31, 8, 17, 52, 18, 13, 22, 23

ADP 2012:

20, 6, 20, 18, 34, 32, 27, 64, 74, 61, 23, 82, 21, 28

You can honestly say you want Lacy with a better QB who can only break long runs against bottom tier rush teams vs ADP with that POTENTIAL for long plays every time he runs the ball? Keep in mind, those are the game highs. He easily has other 30,40,50 yard runs when the max is 60+. Lacy just does not have that second gear.

Ughhh...a few things:

1) You are pointing out that Lacy's two games with 50 yard runs were against the poor Dallas and Bears defense and so shouldn't count, but then left out the fact that of Peterson's 3 games with 50 yard runs, 1 was against that same Dallas defense, another against the 21st ranked Steelers defense, and then the 36 yard game was against the same poor Bears defense you already referenced.

2) Then, for no apparent reason, while comparing both players 2013 statistics, you throw in Adrian Peterson's once in a lifetime 2000+ record breaking stats.

You keep picking out self serving statistics, or at the very least highlight those that help your point while for no apparent reason discounting all those against it. We'll just agree to disagree, as trying to debate this style of defense is incredibly aggravating.

LOL, I picked 2012 because it was the year before. Here, I will go find Lacy's 2012 stats to compare. Might take me a while though so don't hold your breath.

They have one comparable year, 2013. You only opted to throw in 2012 as it's self-serving evidence.

Here is some more self-serving evidence:

All Peterson's longest play vs Lacy's. You were saying?

0-9 6 5.6% 0 0.0%

10-19 27 25.2% 10 66.7%

20-29 34 31.8% 1 6.7%

30-39 12 11.2% 2 13.3%

40-49 7 6.5% 0 0.0%

50-59 7 6.5% 1 6.7%

60-69 8 7.5% 1 6.7%

70-79 3 2.8% 0 0.0%

80-89 3 2.8% 0 0.0%

90+ 0 0.0% 0 0.0%

I swear to god, have you read anything I've wrote?! Of course it's self serving.

First of all, you're using Peterson's career stats. He's 29, his runs in his prime years is not realistic, not to mention they include the Favre year's in a top offense (whereas my argument that his poor offense is a factor vs Lacy's strong offense). Use his 2013 percentages vs. Lacy, that is more realistic.

Second, for the MILLIONTH TIME, I agree Peterson will have more long runs than Lacy, that's not my argument.

Look like Peterson's longest run this season might be from the cops.

 

[Shutout]

Looks like it might be time for some of you guys to "switch" your answer to Lacy.

Too soon..?

 

[Reegus]

This isn't even a debate for me. I don't even think Lacy is a 1st rounder.

Jesus Christ.

Omg how did i miss this thread?

Don't know but wish you'd continue to miss it. The self stroking after a bad week one game against the best defense in the league is ridiculous. If he continues to get vultured by Kuhn and performs badly against an average defense, I'll eat crow. When he goes 100+/TD next week you'll be on the side of a milk carton. so lame.

Yeah, i'll be lookin for that

Ouch Larry you really missed on this one.