Philly Turning On McNabb? (1 Viewer)

[maddawg2020]

I have to start by saying I LOVE McNABB!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have always supported him and rooted for him and although I love to boo like any other Philadelphian, I actually have never booed him (probably the only guy I haven't ever booed). and I would say that most of philly shares my feelings and love for McNabb but the tide is starting to turn, and it's McNabb fault not ours.

I know there's been a lot of talk of McNabb's racial comments and it has turned into this "philly is a hard place to play nonsense". I am born and raised in Philly and I'm a 4-for-4 guy (meaning I love all 4 Philly sports teams). I have loved McNabb! Supoorted McNabb but this is too much. And the reality is that the OVERWHELMING majority of the city has loved McNabb but he has a major problem... he's too damn sensitive.

he talked about how black QB's are critized more than whites but Vince Young and Jason Campbell have both come out and said they disagree. By the way, probably the most popular athlete in Philly history is Randall Cunningham, who is black. Randall was ripped when he deserved it but he seemd to love the city and played hard for the fans and has been adored for it. But McNabb has a chip on his shoulder. Almost like he wants to keep everyone at arms-length. And then he makes dumb comments.

McNabb doesn't get ripped because he's black, he gets ripped because in 2001, 2002, 2003, and 2004 the Eagles seasons ended interceptions. bad throws.. by... mcnabb! And to be honest McNabb has gotten much better treatment than other stars in our city. And as far as McNabb saying that he gets criticized more because he’s black, that’s STUPID. I was too young but my dad tells me of the criticism that guys like Mike Schimdt and Ron Jaworski got and those too are white. Schimdty led to Phillies to their only World Series title ever and he still was ripped things he's done. Jaws was ripped tremendously but he stuck with it and embraced the fans and today Jaws is one of the most loved sports figures in this town. He stayed here even after he was traded away. He lives in the area and is a vital aspect of local, college, and pro sports in Philly. We love JAWS! I know he's originally from Buff but now he's one of ours. McNabbhasn't gotten nearly to hatred that jaws got... and jaws was white. If McNabb had just been not so sensitive and embraced the Philly fans then I think he'd gone down as even a greater legend then Jaws.

And most recently we’ve had whipping boys like Pat Burrell, Bob Clarke, Larry Bowa, and Charlie Manual. And should I even mention the Eric Lindros debackel. McNabb has also gotten better treatment than our other recent stars like Allen Iverson, Scott Rolen, and Charles Barkley. McNabb is pampered in this town compared to what they’ve all gotten.

Since about age 5 I have been taught to love and support our teams no matter what. And I would guess that over 95% of Philly fans are that way. But we seem to get a bad rep with the national media. We are a blue-collared town but every week we still sell out that stadium. What else does the country want from us? Why are we so bad? Because we expect our teams to win championships? Is that bad? Why, because we boo them when they stink? What bothers us is that is seams that the fans want it more than the players do? Shouldn't the teams want it more?

I remember during the 1998 season when the Atlanta Falcons went 14-2 and were making an improbable run to the Super Bowl but yet still could not sell out their games. At the same time the Eagles were on their way to being 3-13, the worse record in football but yet the Vet was sold out every week. I look at the Marlins who have been in existence for only 15 years but have 2 World Championships and still cannot draw crowds. But the Phillies, despite how they break our hearts every year, get 36,000-plus every night. By the way, did you know that the Phillies lost their 10,000th game this summer (most ever)? But yet we still show up and pay $40-50 a ticket to see Adam Eaton stink it up or Tom Gordon blow saves? Not to mention we buy hot dogs for $4.50 and pay $12 for parking and beers for $8. And on Sundays we spend even more being that Eagles tickets are $90 each or more. I lived in San Diego for a year and I tell you that the average fan was not very knowledgeable and not incredibly passionate. There were some rabid-fans but for the most part if their teams won they were happy but if their teams lost they didn’t care. That’s not loyalty. I’ve lived in other cities as well and I’ve traveled extensively and I would have to say that Philly fans are amongst the most knowledgeable sports fans in the country. Add to that when you consider the hard-earned money this blue-collared town pumps into sports entertainment (did I start to mention jerseys?) then I would say we are amongst the most loyal. Some say we’re not loyal because we boo but I would argue the opposite. If I broke my girlfriend’s heart and she said nothing I would assume she didn’t care but if she was upset about it and voiced her displeasure then I would know how she feels which would show me she cared. It’s the same with us and our sports teams… especially our beloved Eagles. When you win we love you and when you lose we still love you, but and that’s why we get angry and must voice our displeasure. By the way, do you remember the Rush Limbaugh incident and the entire Terrell Owens feud? During both situations the vast majority of the city backed McNabb. Even if Owens did help out us over the hump and had one of the greatest performances in Super Bowl history, we still backed out man, #5. What else does he want from us?

Yesterday, Jayson Stark was on Mike & Mike (he should be sticking up for Philly being that he is philadelphian) but he says Philly is a hard place to play. Why, because you have 65,000 fans cheering you for you? Or is it because every where you look in Philly there’s some kid wearing number 5? People talk about how we booed McNabb at the draft. Ok, we did. We were wrong. But that was EIGHT years ago. It’s time to get over it. I can assure you that Philly has given him more cheers than boos in his career.

There is a loud minority in Philly that hates McNabb. Maybe because he’s black, I don’t know but it’s a MINORITY! McNabb and the national media seem to run with that and say, "Oh Philly doesn’t appreciate McNabb." But that’s not true! Listen to sports talk radio and you’ll hear a few knuckle-heads but 95% of the callers and all of the radio hosts want McNabb to succeed.

I want to Eagles to win the Super Bowl with McNabb as QB. He’s been great. I remember the hurt and pain and misery of being 3-13. I remember going to games full of anguish. And I thank McNabb and Reid for what they have done in Philly. However, is it good enough to just be good during the regular season? Isn’t the goal of sports to win League titles, not just division titles? My frustration with McNabb is that he wants us just to praise him. Well sorry D-Mac, we don’t roll like that! In my opinion Jayson Stark is wrong. We do appreciate McNabb and what he’s done. McNabb doesn’t seem to appreciate us. Go play in NY and see how the fans and media treat you. Or go play in Arizona or San Diego where the fans don’t care if you win or lose.

The bottom line in Philly is if you win we cheer you and love. If you try your best and lose then we love you and cheer you and cry with you. If you lose but we feel like you could have done more and that you’re making stupid, unacceptable mistakes then we still love you but you’ve broken our hearts and we must therefore voice our displeasure. If McNabb wants us to buy tickets, buy jersey’s, and watch on TV (which all supports his $112 million contract) then he’s got to take the good with the bad AND realize that we’ve given him better treatment then any other recent stars. What else does McNabb want from us?

We've loved McNabb but his attitude this summer, the chip in his shoulder, his distain for Philly fans and now these stupid comments will turn the Philly faithful against him. I think this is the beginning of the end for McNabb in Philly!

 

[kevinray]

Philly fans are loyal? I've always had the impression they liked to turn on players when they start to show age. Not that that’s a bad thing, in fact I find a lack of loyalty to be a better then keeping players around past prime.

Also I didn't read your whole post since its long so I might be missing your point.

 

[Bender]

I live in the area too, and I couldn't disagree more. What McNabb said was dead on accurate.

It's not that he gets criticized more or less than the white QBs, it's the way they criticize him, and the way he's talked to on both sides.

On the black side, you have people like Bernard Hopkins and the head of Philadelphia's NAACP chapter basically call Donovan out for not being black enough. Terrell Owens did the same thing, too, where he basically said the guy was too tied into management, which is a definite code word for 'not black enough.'

On the flip side, there's definite racism towards the guy. First, there's the vocal, VERY small minority that does not pull any punches about it and basically will tell you that you can't win a Super Bowl with a black QB (not exactly in those words...I think you can paint an accurate picture, though).

But more importantly, the kind of de-facto, subconscious stereotyping exists in a lot of people's mind. Since 2001, Donovan McNabb has arguably been the third best QB in football (Manning and Brady withstanding). Yet, during that stretch, I have heard every pre-season, a very vocal call on the radio for A.J. Feeley, Jeff Garcia, and now Kevin Kolb to be the starter. (Hell, even a Koy Detmer used to be thrown in there). There's no explanation for it. No sports fan could be THAT stupid.

To take it further, when Manning loses a game, Manning gets criticized for performing badly. When McNabb loses a game, he gets criticized for performing badly and people automatically begin calling for his head.

So what you're dealing with is either ridiculously RIDICULOUSLY stupid fans who understand nothing about any sport, or there's some truth to the subconscious racism argument.

On a side note, I always found it funny, that, even though they hated him at the end of his career, you would see Mike Mamula jersey's almost 5-to-1 at any Eagles event. Same with Andy Harmon. Even now a days, Chase Utley jerseys probably outnumber both Ryan Howard and Jimmy Rollins jerseys COMBINED at Phillies games.

 

[DawgPoundNJ]

Great players make great plays, not excuses. And although the piece was taped in August, it always seems like Donovan has a laundry list of excuses ready to go.

For every one instance where his comments are valid, there are 50 that go against it. Sports fans are a tough, unforgiving breed. Did my Browns fans cut Tim Couch any slack when they cheered when he was injured? Did the Cleveland media cut him any slack ever? It's not a black-white thing, it's got everything to do with the status of the QB position, the position where said QB was drafted, and the contract versus the results.

 

[DawgPoundNJ]

Hey Bender, Peyton Manning is one of the best ever, McNabb is nowhere near it.

 

[Lehigh98]

Philly fans are loyal?

Yes, to our teams. Don't get the teams and the players on them confused.In some cases we'll be loyal to players, say you win a championship or run full speed face first into a wall to make a play.Unfortunately, for that first case, we don't currently have anyone that's accomplished that for us.

I've always had the impression they liked to turn on players when they start to show age.

We turn on players when they don't (or cease to) give max effort or underperform expectations.If you're alligator-arming passes across the middle, we will not be happy.If you're supposed to suck and are actually mediocre to pretty good, hell we'll embrace you.If you have a huge contract and aren't living up to it, you may have some problems with us.Dawkins is showing his age, we still love him.

Not that that’s a bad thing, in fact I find a lack of loyalty to be a better then keeping players around past prime.

Don't confuse the fans and management.

 

[fatness]

he talked about how black QB's are critized more than whites but Vince Young and Jason Campbell have both come out and said they disagree.

Who makes up this stuff, anyway? It's getting copy/pasted routinely now as though it's true. That's not what Campbell said. Here's what he said.

Quarterback Jason Campbell said he could sympathize with Eagles quarterback Donovan McNabb, who expressed concerns in an HBO interview over the way black quarterbacks are sometimes treated. Campbell said race has seemed to affect the way people reacted to him as a quarterback, but not for quite some time.

"Probably early on in my career, early on in college, my first year in college, people look at you differently because of that," Campbell said. "They expect a lot more. You have to do a little bit extra. You feel sometimes that you have to do a little bit extra. At one point in my career I did feel that way, but I don't feel that way now that I have been in the NFL. I have before in my career feel that I have been graded differently."

Link

 

[Lehigh98]

So what you're dealing with is either ridiculously RIDICULOUSLY stupid fans who understand nothing about any sport, or there's some truth to the subconscious racism argument.

You're forgetting the key factor... FRUSTRATION.Its been around 100 seasons since we've won a championship and its killing us.

Fans are frustrated and impatient.

Even if someone's very good, if the fans don't think they can win that Championship, they're ready to move on.

In McNabb's case, that became glaringly evident vs the Pats.

On a side note, I always found it funny, that, even though they hated him at the end of his career, you would see Mike Mamula jersey's almost 5-to-1 at any Eagles event. Same with Andy Harmon.

Don't remember that, maybe I just missed it though.

Even now a days, Chase Utley jerseys probably outnumber both Ryan Howard and Jimmy Rollins jerseys COMBINED at Phillies games.

We haven't had a clutch player in so long the last one doesn't even immediately come to mind.Chase was the first one on the scene as the clutch guy we've been missing and I, and most fans, love him for that.

Maybe race has some effect for some part of the population but I don't think its the main reason or as big as you're making it out to be.

 

[LILB811]

To take it further, when Manning loses a game, Manning gets criticized for performing badly. When McNabb loses a game, he gets criticized for performing badly and people automatically begin calling for his head. On a side note, I always found it funny, that, even though they hated him at the end of his career, you would see Mike Mamula jersey's almost 5-to-1 at any Eagles event. Same with Andy Harmon. Even now a days, Chase Utley jerseys probably outnumber both Ryan Howard and Jimmy Rollins jerseys COMBINED at Phillies games.

1. So you're saying that McNabb gets "his head called for" because he's black? Maybe it has something to do with the fact that for many years he has not corrected his accuracy problems and misses wide open receivers. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that fans are frustrated that we haven't won a championship under the guy. I love McNabb. I'm not calling for anyone to replace him yet, and if I was it has nothing to do with his race.2. When the Eagles came out with their new jerseys 10 or so years ago, the only ones produced were Mamula and Harmon. They were the only ones you could get in regular stores. Great point there.3. You're gonna tell me that the number of supposed Utley jerseys compared to Howard and Rollins is due to the fact that he's white?I'm not saying that racism doesn't exist, even in sports. But as far as criticism of Philadelphia athletes goes, skin color is not at the top of the list of reasons. Play your heart out and the town will embrace you.

 

[GroveDiesel]

I live in the area too, and I couldn't disagree more. What McNabb said was dead on accurate. It's not that he gets criticized more or less than the white QBs, it's the way they criticize him, and the way he's talked to on both sides. On the black side, you have people like Bernard Hopkins and the head of Philadelphia's NAACP chapter basically call Donovan out for not being black enough. Terrell Owens did the same thing, too, where he basically said the guy was too tied into management, which is a definite code word for 'not black enough.'On the flip side, there's definite racism towards the guy. First, there's the vocal, VERY small minority that does not pull any punches about it and basically will tell you that you can't win a Super Bowl with a black QB (not exactly in those words...I think you can paint an accurate picture, though). But more importantly, the kind of de-facto, subconscious stereotyping exists in a lot of people's mind. Since 2001, Donovan McNabb has arguably been the third best QB in football (Manning and Brady withstanding). Yet, during that stretch, I have heard every pre-season, a very vocal call on the radio for A.J. Feeley, Jeff Garcia, and now Kevin Kolb to be the starter. (Hell, even a Koy Detmer used to be thrown in there). There's no explanation for it. No sports fan could be THAT stupid. To take it further, when Manning loses a game, Manning gets criticized for performing badly. When McNabb loses a game, he gets criticized for performing badly and people automatically begin calling for his head. So what you're dealing with is either ridiculously RIDICULOUSLY stupid fans who understand nothing about any sport, or there's some truth to the subconscious racism argument. On a side note, I always found it funny, that, even though they hated him at the end of his career, you would see Mike Mamula jersey's almost 5-to-1 at any Eagles event. Same with Andy Harmon. Even now a days, Chase Utley jerseys probably outnumber both Ryan Howard and Jimmy Rollins jerseys COMBINED at Phillies games.

Come on now, it's a pretty popular saying that "The backup QB is always the most popular guy in town" throughout the entire league. You have some cases where the QB is insanely popular and few fans are going to criticize him, but this isn't something that happens just to McNabb. I mean, the fans actually CHEERED in NY when Pennington got hurt and Clemmons came in. And give me a break about the Utley thing. Utley's jerseys are popular because a) the women love him and b) he plays with grit and heart. Even with that being said, I doubt that Utley's jersey outsells Howard's jersey.

 

[Koya]

PHILLY FANS ARE LOYAL??????????????

x infinity

Seriously, these are the same fans that turned on Santa Claus. These are the fans that probably kept Mike Schmidt from feeling comfortable enough to hit 600 HRs, not just 500 (Mike Schmidts sentiments, not mine). They chased out Barkley. They will boo at the drop of the hat, and worse.

Loyal? Crazy maybe. Passionate, sure. But Loyal? Hardly.

 

[Lehigh98]

PHILLY FANS ARE LOYAL?????????????? x infinitySeriously, these are the same fans that turned on Santa Claus. These are the fans that probably kept Mike Schmidt from feeling comfortable enough to hit 600 HRs, not just 500 (Mike Schmidts sentiments, not mine). They chased out Barkley. They will boo at the drop of the hat, and worse.Loyal? Crazy maybe. Passionate, sure. But Loyal? Hardly.

I started typing up a response like I normally do in the anti-Philly threads but f--- it.You don't know what you're talking about, but you don't care anyway so why bother.

 

[maddawg2020]

Philly fans are loyal? I've always had the impression they liked to turn on players when they start to show age. Not that that’s a bad thing, in fact I find a lack of loyalty to be a better then keeping players around past prime. Also I didn't read your whole post since its long so I might be missing your point.

the Eagles management turns on players when they show age but not the fans. we are loyal in the sense that we sell out games, we buy jerseys, we watch every game and we love our teams more passionately than most cities (I said MOST not all). if you perform we love you, if you dont perform we still care and show up but we voice our displeasure. that's loyalty and passion. just like when red sox nation stuck with their team for 86 year without a title. when they booed and yelled no one called them disloyal fans.what I tell you is NOT loyalty is when teams do bad and don't draw or even worse when teams play well and still dont draw, examples: The marlins with 2 world series titles cant draw or the 98 falcons going 14-2 and not selling out games or the padres leading the wildcard race this year and average 12,000 less per game the Phillies (by the way ticket prices in Philly are higher than the SD Padres and the Phils still draw more-- I know, I lived in both cities)phillies fans are loyal. if you embrace us we'll embrace you.

 

[dotman]

PHILLY FANS ARE LOYAL?????????????? x infinitySeriously, these are the same fans that turned on Santa Claus. These are the fans that probably kept Mike Schmidt from feeling comfortable enough to hit 600 HRs, not just 500 (Mike Schmidts sentiments, not mine). They chased out Barkley. They will boo at the drop of the hat, and worse.Loyal? Crazy maybe. Passionate, sure. But Loyal? Hardly.

I honestly can't respect anyone's opinion of Philly fans if they bring up Santa Claus.

 

[mad sweeney]

I live in the area too, and I couldn't disagree more. What McNabb said was dead on accurate. It's not that he gets criticized more or less than the white QBs, it's the way they criticize him, and the way he's talked to on both sides. On the black side, you have people like Bernard Hopkins and the head of Philadelphia's NAACP chapter basically call Donovan out for not being black enough. Terrell Owens did the same thing, too, where he basically said the guy was too tied into management, which is a definite code word for 'not black enough.'On the flip side, there's definite racism towards the guy. First, there's the vocal, VERY small minority that does not pull any punches about it and basically will tell you that you can't win a Super Bowl with a black QB (not exactly in those words...I think you can paint an accurate picture, though). But more importantly, the kind of de-facto, subconscious stereotyping exists in a lot of people's mind. Since 2001, Donovan McNabb has arguably been the third best QB in football (Manning and Brady withstanding). Yet, during that stretch, I have heard every pre-season, a very vocal call on the radio for A.J. Feeley, Jeff Garcia, and now Kevin Kolb to be the starter. (Hell, even a Koy Detmer used to be thrown in there). There's no explanation for it. No sports fan could be THAT stupid. To take it further, when Manning loses a game, Manning gets criticized for performing badly. When McNabb loses a game, he gets criticized for performing badly and people automatically begin calling for his head. So what you're dealing with is either ridiculously RIDICULOUSLY stupid fans who understand nothing about any sport, or there's some truth to the subconscious racism argument. On a side note, I always found it funny, that, even though they hated him at the end of his career, you would see Mike Mamula jersey's almost 5-to-1 at any Eagles event. Same with Andy Harmon. Even now a days, Chase Utley jerseys probably outnumber both Ryan Howard and Jimmy Rollins jerseys COMBINED at Phillies games.

Come on now, it's a pretty popular saying that "The backup QB is always the most popular guy in town" throughout the entire league. You have some cases where the QB is insanely popular and few fans are going to criticize him, but this isn't something that happens just to McNabb. I mean, the fans actually CHEERED in NY when Pennington got hurt and Clemmons came in. And give me a break about the Utley thing. Utley's jerseys are popular because a) the women love him and b) he plays with grit and heart. Even with that being said, I doubt that Utley's jersey outsells Howard's jersey.

In addition, unless there was ever a black QB to back up McNabb, pointing to the fact that fans were clamoring for a white guy to replace McNabb is flaWed. The only way to use this as a point is if there were a black backup and fans were clamoring for the white 3rd stringer.And anything TO has to say about anybody should be almost immediately discounted. The team is paying him over 100 million dollars, whose side should he be on?!Manning is so far and away better than McNabb you can't even compare the situations. And Manning was a choker on teams with no defense, wheras McNabb INTed his way through 4 seasons with top Ds.

 

[TheLastDispatch]

Philly fans are loyal? I've always had the impression they liked to turn on players when they start to show age. Not that that’s a bad thing, in fact I find a lack of loyalty to be a better then keeping players around past prime. Also I didn't read your whole post since its long so I might be missing your point.

I wouldn't consider Philly fans loyal either. I grew up and still live in Philly, and from my personal experiences with the people around me, loyal is the last word I would use to describe them. People will be all for someone when they have a great game, then one bad game and people will be shouting they should be traded, they're no good, they've never been good, etc. Then another good game and those same people are tripping over themselves saying they were behind them the whole way. IMO, Philly fans (at least the ones I'm surrounded by) are very fickle. I know a lot of people on here would disagree with this though. I think they're surrounded by more intelligent people than I am. FWIW, I think the only current Eagle the fans have true loyalty to is Dawkins.

 

[maddawg2020]

Seriously, these are the same fans that turned on Santa Claus.

I'm going to set the record straight on this santa booing thing for ignorant people like you. this is the whoe story:santa made regular visits to Eagles' games every year around christmas and he was loved and often cheered (when I say the "real" santa I mean the guy the eagles hired to come out as santa). in 1968 the real santa couldn't make it to the game because of a snow storm. so at half-time so drunk guy from the stand who happened to show up to the game in a ratty-looking santa outfit ran onto the field and the Eagles security guys let him on thinking he was the "real" santa. many of the fans knew he wasn't the real one and yelled and chanted give us the real santa. the fake santa got up on the parade float and was taken around the field and the fans began to chant, "he's a fake, he's a fake." that chant then erupted into an array of boos. as he went of the field he threw snowballs into the section he had been sitting watching the first half of the game and the fans in the section threw snowballs back at him. this is a true story. it's documented and confirmed by Ray Didinger & Steve Sabol of NFL Films.

those the reputation grew that Philly fans booed santa. and that my friends is, as Paul Harvey would say, They rest of the story.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

By the way, probably the most popular athlete in Philly history is Julius Erving, who is black.

Fixed.

 

[crudefan1]

Im a philly fan too, the fact is all qb's are under alot of pressure. Its sad how mcnabb is using this racist crap cause he can't handle pressure and never could on or off the field.

 

[az_prof]

I believe McNabb has a point and it is hard for me to believe that Philly fans are loyal. No one wants to hear about racism and it is a natural defense to turn around and accuse the victim. I believe that the poster of this thread is not racist and that he is a loyal fan: but I don't see that being true of Philly fans in general--my opinion.

 

[Snotbubbles]

I live in the area too, and I couldn't disagree more. What McNabb said was dead on accurate. It's not that he gets criticized more or less than the white QBs, it's the way they criticize him, and the way he's talked to on both sides. On the black side, you have people like Bernard Hopkins and the head of Philadelphia's NAACP chapter basically call Donovan out for not being black enough. Terrell Owens did the same thing, too, where he basically said the guy was too tied into management, which is a definite code word for 'not black enough.'On the flip side, there's definite racism towards the guy. First, there's the vocal, VERY small minority that does not pull any punches about it and basically will tell you that you can't win a Super Bowl with a black QB (not exactly in those words...I think you can paint an accurate picture, though). But more importantly, the kind of de-facto, subconscious stereotyping exists in a lot of people's mind. Since 2001, Donovan McNabb has arguably been the third best QB in football (Manning and Brady withstanding). Yet, during that stretch, I have heard every pre-season, a very vocal call on the radio for A.J. Feeley, Jeff Garcia, and now Kevin Kolb to be the starter. (Hell, even a Koy Detmer used to be thrown in there). There's no explanation for it. No sports fan could be THAT stupid. To take it further, when Manning loses a game, Manning gets criticized for performing badly. When McNabb loses a game, he gets criticized for performing badly and people automatically begin calling for his head. So what you're dealing with is either ridiculously RIDICULOUSLY stupid fans who understand nothing about any sport, or there's some truth to the subconscious racism argument. On a side note, I always found it funny, that, even though they hated him at the end of his career, you would see Mike Mamula jersey's almost 5-to-1 at any Eagles event. Same with Andy Harmon. Even now a days, Chase Utley jerseys probably outnumber both Ryan Howard and Jimmy Rollins jerseys COMBINED at Phillies games.

I'd be willing to bet that the #5 jersey is probably the top selling Eagles jersey.Plus, out of Utley, Rollins and Howard, I'd say Utley is the best player of the three and has the best chance of being a HOFer.I do agree with the other points though.

 

[kevinray]

Philly fans are loyal? I've always had the impression they liked to turn on players when they start to show age. Not that that’s a bad thing, in fact I find a lack of loyalty to be a better then keeping players around past prime. Also I didn't read your whole post since its long so I might be missing your point.

the Eagles management turns on players when they show age but not the fans. we are loyal in the sense that we sell out games, we buy jerseys, we watch every game and we love our teams more passionately than most cities (I said MOST not all). if you perform we love you, if you dont perform we still care and show up but we voice our displeasure. that's loyalty and passion. just like when red sox nation stuck with their team for 86 year without a title. when they booed and yelled no one called them disloyal fans.what I tell you is NOT loyalty is when teams do bad and don't draw or even worse when teams play well and still dont draw, examples: The marlins with 2 world series titles cant draw or the 98 falcons going 14-2 and not selling out games or the padres leading the wildcard race this year and average 12,000 less per game the Phillies (by the way ticket prices in Philly are higher than the SD Padres and the Phils still draw more-- I know, I lived in both cities)phillies fans are loyal. if you embrace us we'll embrace you.

I think this kind of loyalty is a lot different then the kind the OP was talking about. He made reference to Philly fans being loyal as a reference to McNabb. Being loyal to players is very different form being loyal to a team. A lot of fan bases embrace their stars to the end and suffer through there ups and downs. I never have had this impression of Philly fans, and I don't think the term loyal is very representative of their attitudes towards players. They're very critical on a New York media level and its more common to hear booing from their fans during games then the avg. That just doesn’t scream player loyalty to me, no matter how much they like their team. Like I said earlier this attitude has allowed the team to prosper because management doesn't get pressured to keep "fan favorites, and is good for the team in the long run but it isn’t the act of loyalty.

 

[maddawg2020]

I wouldn't consider Philly fans loyal either. I grew up and still live in Philly, and from my personal experiences with the people around me, loyal is the last word I would use to describe them. People will be all for someone when they have a great game, then one bad game and people will be shouting they should be traded, they're no good, they've never been good, etc. Then another good game and those same people are tripping over themselves saying they were behind them the whole way. IMO, Philly fans (at least the ones I'm surrounded by) are very fickle. I know a lot of people on here would disagree with this though. I think they're surrounded by more intelligent people than I am.

FWIW, I think the only current Eagle the fans have true loyalty to is Dawkins.

I would agree there is a loud minority of fans that are fickle but the majority of fans are VERY LOYAL.... um, we haven't had a championship in this city in 24 years and we still sell-out games and buy jerseys and spend hard-earned money. i'm happy that red sox nation got a title and many people call them loyal for sticking with the redsox but remember they've had several other championships from the Pats, Celtics, and bruins over the last few decades. they've never gone 24 years without a major championship so i hardly see perserverance being shown as well as from any other city than Philly.we love our players and we boo and yell but we still buy tickets. what the hell does the world want from us? you want us to just be okay with mediocrity and just take it up the @^^ when our teams dont give everything??????

and as far as people saying they want people to be traded that's bull-crap. there's a few but that's with any fanbase... the majority of the Philly fans love McNabb and want to continue to support us but he continually does and says things to make us angry and keep us at arms-length. it's almost like he wants us to dislike him. he doesn't fullt embrace the Philly attitude. garcia totally did that last year and that's why the fans loved him but we all know that McNabb's talent is way beyond Garcia.

we love McNabb but is it okay to simply be good in the regular season? at what point are we allowed to say, "Ok mcNabb, it's time to win it all!" it's not because he's black it's because he throws INT's at the end of big games. I love him and hate for it. I want him to win. I want to love him... but he won't let me!

 

[Snotbubbles]

PHILLY FANS ARE LOYAL?????????????? x infinitySeriously, these are the same fans that turned on Santa Claus. These are the fans that probably kept Mike Schmidt from feeling comfortable enough to hit 600 HRs, not just 500 (Mike Schmidts sentiments, not mine). They chased out Barkley. They will boo at the drop of the hat, and worse.Loyal? Crazy maybe. Passionate, sure. But Loyal? Hardly.

The Santa Clause was a guy from the stands, half shot in the ###, that the Eagles got because the original guy was a no show. Picture, Billy Bob Thornton in Bad Santa. He deserved to be boo'd.The fans chased Schmidt out of town or the media? Get your stories straight.Barkley? No don't think so. Barkley wanted to leave because ownership couldn't/wouldn't put a championship team around him. We chased him out of town so bad that he still lives here.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

Schmidt retired because he couldn't play third base anymore. If the Phillies had been in the AL, he woulda played another year or two.

ETA: He could have been asked to be traded to an AL team in order to prolong his career, but he didn't. He didn't want to play for anyone else but the Phillies. Hardly the sentiment of someone being "chased out of town."

 

[dickey moe]

Hey guys, I know there's been a lot of talk of McNabb's racial comments and it has turned into this "philly is a hard place to play nonsense". I am born and raised in Philly and I'm a 4-for-4 guy (meaning I love all 4 Philly sports teams). I have loved McNabb! Supoorted McNabb but this is too much. And the reality is that the OVERWHELMING majority of the city has loved McNabb but he has a major problem... he's too damn sensitive.

he talked about how black QB's are critized more than whites but Vince Young and Jason Campbell have both come out and said they disagree. By the way, probably the most popular athlete in Philly history is Randall Cunningham, who is black.

Really? Even more so than Dr. J?

 

[maddawg2020]

I never have had this impression of Philly fans, and I don't think the term loyal is very representative of their attitudes towards players. They're very critical on a New York media level and its more common to hear booing from their fans during games then the avg. That just doesn’t scream player loyalty to me, no matter how much they like their team. Like I said earlier this attitude has allowed the team to prosper because management doesn't get pressured to keep "fan favorites, and is good for the team in the long run but it isn’t the act of loyalty.

Loyalty=> the state of being loyal; conduct that exhibits one's love for a cause, party, or person; willingness to sacrifice one's own needs to serve another; willingness to show faithfulness to commitments; faithful to one's oath or vow; exemplifying fidelity (The Standard American College Dictionary, 2006 edition)if we use this definition we are LOYAL... Philly sells-out no matter what the record of the eagles. also, according to stub-hub and Reliant Packages, more EAGLES's road-game packages were sold than ANY other team. that means we travel to see our team away more than any other football fan-base.

the phillies draw very well, the flyers had their worse season in franchise history last year but yet were still amongst the highest tickets sales in the NHL, and dont even get me started on the Sixers. not to mention many Philadelphians make the 4 hour trek to Happy Valley every Saturday to see the Nittany Lions. by the way, did I mention that Temple Football won 2 games over three seasons and even they get people to spend $30-$40 on tix sales. the same cannot be said about other citits. we show we love our teams, we sacrifice, we show up to games, we watch them on TV (Philly teams are amongst the largest in TV rations per capita).

we are loyal and if you cant see that then your opinion isn't valid... PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Bizkiteer]

I think Charles Barkey made a very good point, what did the Eagles do before McNabb and Andy Reid got there...not much! He also pointed out that McNabb basically did the same stuff Peyton did, but has never received the same notoriety (this is comparing the two before Peyton won the SB).

Like it or not, it's only been a few years that we are starting to see more black QB's play in the NFL. If you were loyal before, you should stick with him because it's not like he's lying or making it up...he just using poor judgement on when to talk about it.

 

[Buddy Ball 2K3]

I love when people talk about Philly and their fans when they clearly have no idea what they are talking about and only go by what guys like Tony Cornhole say.

Philly fans are absolutely loyal to their teams

Philly fans are tired of always having season after season with 0 championships in any sport.

Philly fans do not stand by athletes who (in their minds) arent doing their best simply because they wear the team colors

People say we run our best players out of town. Who Barkley ? He started talking about wanting out and then the fans turned on him. Randal Cunningham? Loved the guy but c'mon he had his time here and it just wasnt working. Even Joe Montana left San Fran. I guess its Iverson, this guy was LOVED in this City, he is the only reason the Sixers sold a ticket, he wanted out because there wasnt going to be a winner here, not because of the fans.

I dare you to find a city that has as loyal of a fan base as the Philadelphia teams do with as few championship seasons. I am a 4-4 guy and I always will be, but when it comes down to it, I could careless about McNabb, Barkley, Lindros, Scott Roland and you know why that is ? I route for the colors and not the man.

 

[mbuehner]

ts been around 100 seasons since we've won a championship and its killing us.

Hmphh. Im from Chicago, you want to talk about frustration? We still dont boo Derrick Lee every time he pops out. Philly fans are by and large bratty punks that take pride in being jerks. Only one team out of 32 wins a SB, but you dont hear other cities booing the best player on their team very often. Any time you wanna trade for Grossman the offer is on the table.And PS: did it ever occur to you so called Philly fans to boo your BAD players? Start booing your WRs and do something productive, mayber theyll bring in a decent one.

 

[Buddy Ball 2K3]

ts been around 100 seasons since we've won a championship and its killing us.

Hmphh. Im from Chicago, you want to talk about frustration? We still dont boo Derrick Lee every time he pops out. Philly fans are by and large bratty punks that take pride in being jerks. Only one team out of 32 wins a SB, but you dont hear other cities booing the best player on their team very often. Any time you wanna trade for Grossman the offer is on the table.And PS: did it ever occur to you so called Philly fans to boo your BAD players? Start booing your WRs and do something productive, mayber theyll bring in a decent one.

Chicago ? What would you understand about being a fan from philly? You guys just won a World Series, you have how many championships in basketball ? You won a Super Bowl... Just go back and kiss all the feet of the champions you have had in the past 20 years while the fans here and Philly can thank all the GM's for getting us close

 

[Buddy Ball 2K3]

ts been around 100 seasons since we've won a championship and its killing us.

Hmphh. Im from Chicago, you want to talk about frustration? We still dont boo Derrick Lee every time he pops out. Philly fans are by and large bratty punks that take pride in being jerks. Only one team out of 32 wins a SB, but you dont hear other cities booing the best player on their team very often. Any time you wanna trade for Grossman the offer is on the table.

And PS: did it ever occur to you so called Philly fans to boo your BAD players? Start booing your WRs and do something productive, mayber theyll bring in a decent one.

We did that and he couldn't get along with our QBJust ask Stinky Pinky, James Thrash, Freddie Mitchell etc etc if they ever got booed. You guys really have no idea what you are talking about

 

[mbuehner]

We did that and he couldn't get along with our QB

You picked a headcase that hasnt been able to win anywhere and the results were predictable- particularly after he refused to play for a team that he demanded to be traded to. And low and behold you got to the superbowl. This team has Marvin Harrison and its got 3 SB rings.

 

[maddawg2020]

So what you're dealing with is either ridiculously RIDICULOUSLY stupid fans who understand nothing about any sport, or there's some truth to the subconscious racism argument.

I travel for work quite a bit (I'm in a different American city twice a month or so. I have also lived in Chicago, New Mexico, San Diego, and Miami besides being borned and raised in Philly and I have just recently moved back to Philly. Philly sports fan are amongst the most knowledgeable sports fans in the country. they truly are. there is certainly a very loud minority of idiots that call into WIP a lot but it truly is a minority. the things you must remember:1- we haven't won a title in 24 YEARS... there is a lot of frustation and that causes even the most knowledgeable fans to overreact at times which it often directed at whoever is in the spotlight at the time. I admit this isn't fair to the players but McNabb isn't the only guy to deal with this in Philly. it even happened in Boston. after the 2003 AL championship lost Grady Little was killed by RedSox nation. he's a decent manager but the fans overreacted as did the media.

2- that McNabb is the leader of our favorite team. there's pressure

3- philly has always had this us versus the management mentality (especially with the Phillies). that's why pat croce was loved when he was president of the sixers. he was "one of us" that made it into management.

4- mcnabb has been very close with the eagles' front office has been kinda a "company man". and therefore our frustration towards manangement sometimes unfairly gets directed towards mcNabb.

5- mcnabb has, MANY times, said things to keep us at arms length or alienate the Philly faithful.

6- Mcnabb gets criticized because of his flaws and mistakes and loved and cheered for his good efforts. not because he's black

 

[maddawg2020]

ts been around 100 seasons since we've won a championship and its killing us.

Hmphh. Im from Chicago, you want to talk about frustration? We still dont boo Derrick Lee every time he pops out. Philly fans are by and large bratty punks that take pride in being jerks. Only one team out of 32 wins a SB, but you dont hear other cities booing the best player on their team very often. Any time you wanna trade for Grossman the offer is on the table.And PS: did it ever occur to you so called Philly fans to boo your BAD players? Start booing your WRs and do something productive, mayber theyll bring in a decent one.

I lived in Chi-town and I like the city and I have no complaints about the fan-base there. true fans, very passionate, very loyal, very knowledgeable. however you have no room to talkwith multiple championships in your city over the past 20 years.by the way, we boo are bad players too... do you remember the 2003 NFC Championship game (Philly vs. Carolina).

 

[Lehigh98]

ts been around 100 seasons since we've won a championship and its killing us.

Hmphh. Im from Chicago, you want to talk about frustration?

Chicago has won 8 championships since Philly won its last one.

Philly fans are by and large bratty punks that take pride in being jerks.

Wow, thats dead on, so how long have you lived in Philly?

Any time you wanna trade for Grossman the offer is on the table.

Nobody wants Grossman, enjoy him.

And PS: did it ever occur to you so called Philly fans to boo your BAD players? Start booing your WRs and do something productive, mayber theyll bring in a decent one.

Read my post about performance vs expectations again, maybe you'll understand it this time.Edit to add: But yeah, we boo the guys that just flat out suck too.

 

[Polish Hammer]

ts been around 100 seasons since we've won a championship and its killing us.

Hmphh. Im from Chicago, you want to talk about frustration? We still dont boo Derrick Lee every time he pops out. Philly fans are by and large bratty punks that take pride in being jerks. Only one team out of 32 wins a SB, but you dont hear other cities booing the best player on their team very often. Any time you wanna trade for Grossman the offer is on the table.And PS: did it ever occur to you so called Philly fans to boo your BAD players? Start booing your WRs and do something productive, mayber theyll bring in a decent one.

Most of the time there is booing in Philly it is directed at a performance rather than a player (I'm speaking of hometown players....someone like JD Drew or Michael Irvin always got booed). Strike out looking two times in the same game and you'll be booed. Stike out swinging and play hard in the field and things go easier. Cut a route short to avoid being hit by the safety and you'll be booed. Sacrifice yourself going over the middle to make the hard catch yet you don't get the first down, you won't be booed. The fans of Philadelphia are many things, but uninformed on sports and bad judges of performance aren't labels fairly applied.

 

[Buddy Ball 2K3]

We did that and he couldn't get along with our QB

You picked a headcase that hasnt been able to win anywhere and the results were predictable- particularly after he refused to play for a team that he demanded to be traded to. And low and behold you got to the superbowl. This team has Marvin Harrison and its got 3 SB rings.

Sorry he was the only top flight WR available. Who should we have gotten, Harrison ?? Steve Smith... oh I know Chad Johnson or Torry HoltWhen will people start to understand that you just cant go pick a stud WR off a tree? The Eagles got the best they could, unless you can name someone better then TO that they should have gone after.

 

[mbuehner]

Sorry he was the only top flight WR available. Who should we have gotten, Harrison ?? Steve Smith... oh I know Chad Johnson or Torry Holt

In the last 10 years? There is this thing they have, pretty much every year, called the draft. You will recognize it because your fellow fans will be booing your selection.

 

[mbuehner]

And ok, forget the Chicago example- even though the Cubs havent won since the automobile was a novelty. You dont see Bengals fans or Cardinal fans or Saints fans acting like total jack asses.

 

[kensat30]

It's not McNabb's fault that Philly fans can't respect talent.

And it's not Philly fans' fault that they recognize McNabb for the punk that he is.

They really are made for each other actually. It's like your stereotypical bad marriage.

 

[maddawg2020]

And ok, forget the Chicago example- even though the Cubs havent won since the automobile was a novelty. You dont see Bengals fans or Cardinal fans or Saints fans acting like total jack asses.

because they truly dont care!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that's my point. those aren't strong football towns like Philly, Boston, NY, Chicago. Cleveland is but Cinncy isn't. I dated a girl from the dayton area once and met a bunch of her family who were from Cinncy. For them it was all about The Reds and Ohio State Football.also, in arizons, new orleans, and other towns like Seattle, San Diego, and other cities they really dont care when their teams lose but jump back on when their teams win.... hhhmmmmm.... yeah, that's not what I call loyalty that's what I call "fair-weather-fans"... dont break ur ankles as you jump on and off the band-wagon

 

[maddawg2020]

It's not McNabb's fault that Philly fans can't respect talent.And it's not Philly fans' fault that they recognize McNabb for the punk that he is.They really are made for each other actually. It's like your stereotypical bad marriage.

I take personal offense to your "cant respect talent" comment. if you actually believe this you're an idiot but I'll assume you just had a brain fart for a moment. we respect players with talent and that give their all. chase utley, ryan howard, aaron rowand are recent examples of players that have quickly won over the love of this town. for the eagles brian dawkins and jeremiah trotter are two guys that haven't been more loved in their lives (their words). and the minute we got takeo spikes this off-season people respected his talent. the same for TO, despite how much we hate him for what he did we still respected his talent level.your assessment of philly fans is just flat-out wrong!

 

[Tanner9919]

I live in the area too, and I couldn't disagree more. What McNabb said was dead on accurate.

It's not that he gets criticized more or less than the white QBs, it's the way they criticize him, and the way he's talked to on both sides.

On the black side, you have people like Bernard Hopkins and the head of Philadelphia's NAACP chapter basically call Donovan out for not being black enough. Terrell Owens did the same thing, too, where he basically said the guy was too tied into management, which is a definite code word for 'not black enough.'

On the flip side, there's definite racism towards the guy. First, there's the vocal, VERY small minority that does not pull any punches about it and basically will tell you that you can't win a Super Bowl with a black QB (not exactly in those words...I think you can paint an accurate picture, though).

But more importantly, the kind of de-facto, subconscious stereotyping exists in a lot of people's mind. Since 2001, Donovan McNabb has arguably been the third best QB in football (Manning and Brady withstanding). Yet, during that stretch, I have heard every pre-season, a very vocal call on the radio for A.J. Feeley, Jeff Garcia, and now Kevin Kolb to be the starter. (Hell, even a Koy Detmer used to be thrown in there). There's no explanation for it. No sports fan could be THAT stupid.

To take it further, when Manning loses a game, Manning gets criticized for performing badly. When McNabb loses a game, he gets criticized for performing badly and people automatically begin calling for his head.

So what you're dealing with is either ridiculously RIDICULOUSLY stupid fans who understand nothing about any sport, or there's some truth to the subconscious racism argument.

On a side note, I always found it funny, that, even though they hated him at the end of his career, you would see Mike Mamula jersey's almost 5-to-1 at any Eagles event. Same with Andy Harmon. Even now a days, Chase Utley jerseys probably outnumber both Ryan Howard and Jimmy Rollins jerseys COMBINED at Phillies games.

I'm throwing the `BS` flag on McNabb:

I don't live in Philly, so I can't speak for the fans down there, but I have two words for McNabb:

Rex Grossman.

not one single QB in the NFL is more scrutinized , than Rex Grossman.period. He's the poster child for fan-bashing..

I still haven't heard him complain, not once, about his situation, and he's routinely booed! so where does McNabb get off?

the problem is, McNabb thinks he's much better than he really is..he thinks he's on par with Manning, Favre, Palmer, as one of the game's elite QB's,but when you take a closer look at his numbers, they're not that much different that guys like Jake Delhomme,etc..He's not as good as Favre or Manning, both are hall of fame QB's, but McNabb thinks he is

I think guys like McNabb should stop using cop-outs to 'explain' his situation..the more you use the 'I get no respect because I'm black' angle, the less people actually will respect you..you never heard Hank Aaron use a cop-out like that, he just went out and did his thing, and people love him because of it. He faced a lot of adversity back then, and saw much more racism than what McNabb will ever know..

 

[Gr00vus]

And ok, forget the Chicago example- even though the Cubs havent won since the automobile was a novelty. You dont see Bengals fans or Cardinal fans or Saints fans acting like total jack asses.

It's because they all expect their team to lose. When you've got no expectations, you don't get upset when your team continues to suck.And before the Bengal fans jump me, I was at the Charger/Bengal game last year. Even with the Bengals up 21 points I had fans coming up to me (I was wearing a Charger jersey) and telling me how the Bengals were still going to lose the game - these are Bengal fans. The guy in the seat in front of me was literally counting down their lead as it shrunk, explaining to me that the Bengals needed to stop the Chargers X number of times to win and why they wouldn't. He was right of course.

 

[scratcher]

I have to start by saying I LOVE McNABB!!!!!!!!!!!!!! etc, etc...

very

 

[kevinray]

I never have had this impression of Philly fans, and I don't think the term loyal is very representative of their attitudes towards players. They're very critical on a New York media level and its more common to hear booing from their fans during games then the avg. That just doesn’t scream player loyalty to me, no matter how much they like their team. Like I said earlier this attitude has allowed the team to prosper because management doesn't get pressured to keep "fan favorites, and is good for the team in the long run but it isn’t the act of loyalty.

Loyalty=> the state of being loyal; conduct that exhibits one's love for a cause, party, or person; willingness to sacrifice one's own needs to serve another; willingness to show faithfulness to commitments; faithful to one's oath or vow; exemplifying fidelity (The Standard American College Dictionary, 2006 edition)if we use this definition we are LOYAL... Philly sells-out no matter what the record of the eagles. also, according to stub-hub and Reliant Packages, more EAGLES's road-game packages were sold than ANY other team. that means we travel to see our team away more than any other football fan-base.

the phillies draw very well, the flyers had their worse season in franchise history last year but yet were still amongst the highest tickets sales in the NHL, and dont even get me started on the Sixers. not to mention many Philadelphians make the 4 hour trek to Happy Valley every Saturday to see the Nittany Lions. by the way, did I mention that Temple Football won 2 games over three seasons and even they get people to spend $30-$40 on tix sales. the same cannot be said about other citits. we show we love our teams, we sacrifice, we show up to games, we watch them on TV (Philly teams are amongst the largest in TV rations per capita).

we are loyal and if you cant see that then your opinion isn't valid... PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You’re missing the point. Yeah Philly fans are loyal to their teams. Very loyal. But in reference to McNabb and players in general they sure aren't any more loyal then any other area of the country. They base their opinion on players strictly on current performance. They don't give long leashes to players simply because of past performances and they're loud and negative when things go badly. It all comes down to this - Fans who are loyal to players aren't nearly as constantly negative as Philly fans are when things go badly. The kind of loyalty your thinking of is strictly team related.Ohhh and the mass exclamation points you added really support your argument

 

[dotman]

And ok, forget the Chicago example- even though the Cubs havent won since the automobile was a novelty. You dont see Bengals fans or Cardinal fans or Saints fans acting like total jack asses.

Maybe that's because they only show up when the team is doing well

 

[mbuehner]

It's because they all expect their team to lose. When you've got no expectations, you don't get upset when your team continues to suck.

Well maybe you guys need to revise your expectations. If the success the Eagles have displayed since McNabb joined amounts to sucking, please explain how great football towns like Cleveland or Detroit or KC manage not to riot in the streets. If you ask me its just a conceit to imagine Eagles fans bleed their colors any more than some of these other towns just because they dont throw batteries at their players. At least the lunk head Raider fans are smart enough to assault and harrass the other team. Perhaps a redefining of what it means to be a fan is in order.

 

[dotman]

I never have had this impression of Philly fans, and I don't think the term loyal is very representative of their attitudes towards players. They're very critical on a New York media level and its more common to hear booing from their fans during games then the avg. That just doesn’t scream player loyalty to me, no matter how much they like their team. Like I said earlier this attitude has allowed the team to prosper because management doesn't get pressured to keep "fan favorites, and is good for the team in the long run but it isn’t the act of loyalty.

Loyalty=> the state of being loyal; conduct that exhibits one's love for a cause, party, or person; willingness to sacrifice one's own needs to serve another; willingness to show faithfulness to commitments; faithful to one's oath or vow; exemplifying fidelity (The Standard American College Dictionary, 2006 edition)if we use this definition we are LOYAL... Philly sells-out no matter what the record of the eagles. also, according to stub-hub and Reliant Packages, more EAGLES's road-game packages were sold than ANY other team. that means we travel to see our team away more than any other football fan-base.

the phillies draw very well, the flyers had their worse season in franchise history last year but yet were still amongst the highest tickets sales in the NHL, and dont even get me started on the Sixers. not to mention many Philadelphians make the 4 hour trek to Happy Valley every Saturday to see the Nittany Lions. by the way, did I mention that Temple Football won 2 games over three seasons and even they get people to spend $30-$40 on tix sales. the same cannot be said about other citits. we show we love our teams, we sacrifice, we show up to games, we watch them on TV (Philly teams are amongst the largest in TV rations per capita).

we are loyal and if you cant see that then your opinion isn't valid... PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You’re missing the point. Yeah Philly fans are loyal to their teams. Very loyal. But in reference to McNabb and players in general they sure aren't any more loyal then any other team in the league. They base their opinion on players strictly on current performance. They don't give long leashes to players simply because of past performances and they're loud and negative when things go badly. It all comes down to this - Fans who are loyal to players aren't nearly as constantly negative as Philly fans are when things go badly. The kind of loyalty your thinking of is strictly team related.Ohhh and the mass exclamation points you added really support your argument

What about the way Trotter was embraced after he came back from the Redskins? At the time, his "current performance" was a couple injury plagued seasons for a division rival. Yet Philly fans rolled out the welcome mat. You must have missed Trotter's press conference after he was cut, when he spent a lot of time talking about how great the fans are, numerous times he said "The best fans in the league", and how he was so appreciative and amazed to see so many people present for the 2nd half of the preseason game against the Panthers, after a massive thunderstorm came through during halftime. I was there, and after the game, guess who got the loudest applause walking into the tunnel? McNabb. At the press conference, Takeo talked and said how Trot had told him you feel like a modern day gladiator coming out of the tunnel. Guess who gets the loudest roar on Sundays? McNabb.