Player Spotlight: Marion Barber (1 Viewer)

[Keg]

Oh really? Jones rookie year saw him average 4.2 YPC. Barber averaged a whopping 4.8 last year. Those are statistics right?

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MB3 runs draw plays against nickel defenses. I would assume his YPC would be high.

Why does no one "get" this.

I underlined your problem i will just cut and paste some of my replies from other threads on this:

IMO the "HE GOT THE EASY YARDS" just doesnt hold water....

just because he got more carries doesnt mean he was better with them, and if you look at his 1st down carries you will see he put the boys in what had to be plenty of 2 and longs...

JJ carried the ball 199 times for 877 yards between the 20s for a 4.4ypc

Barber carried the ball 77 times for 441 yards between the 20s for a 5.73ypc

on 1st down carries:

Barber: 63/296 7TDs 4.7ypc

JJ: 179/679 2TDs 3.8ypc

now of Barbers 63 carries 13 of them were 1st and goal carries for a total of 30 yards and 7TDs...if you remove those carries then Barber averaged 5.32ypc on 1st down vs JJs 3.8ypc and fwiw 54% of Barbers carries came on 1st down, only 25% of his carries came on 3rd down.

also when Barber carried the ball 10 times or more the cowboys won(9games) in the games he carried it less they lost...as an eagles fan I hope they give barber the ball TWICE a game!

I dont know what they will do down in Little D but the numbers sure make a strong case for Barber to get more carries vs JJ



that is somewhat of a misnomer when you look and see that 54% of barbers carries were on 1st down(21% of them were 1st and goal though)...and only 25% of his carries occurred on 3rd down

but i do agree that we wont see much of a change this yr...that is unless JJ gets INJURED AGAIN(he has missed 11 of 48 games)

but only 25% of Barbers carries and 27% of his yardage came on 3rd downs, 47% were on 1st down and 25% were on 2nd down and 3% were on 4th down.

i am not a cowboy homer in the least but all i tend to hear is that JJ got the raw end of the stick and barber had it easy but when you look at what BOTH runners did on 1st downs it has to make you scratch your head:

JJ on 1st downs: 179carries 679yards 3.8ypc 2TDs

Barber on 1st downs: 63carries 296yards 4.7ypc 7TDs

What I dont have at my disposal is how many short yardage 1st down goal to go carries barber had...but if that was significant than that really says volumes about the 4.7ypc...and if there werent many then it says volumes about the 4.7 vs JJs 3.8

Here are ALL of barbers 1st down carries in the 2 minute warning(he actually only had 8 carries for 40 yards and of those carries only 2 were for double digit yardage(10 & 11 yards))

1st-10=11yrds

1st-4=no gain

1st-10=5yrds

1st-10=6yards

1st-5=no gain

1st-10=10yrds

1st-10=7yrds

1st-10=1yrd

...21 of barbers 63 1st down carries were either in the 2min offense or as 1st and goals and on those 21 carries he only averaged 3.3ypc vs 5.38ypc on his other 42 1st down carries...so the EASY YARDS ARGUMENT doesnt really hold much weight...again for some reason that seems to be the perception but the stats dont show the same story....i guess in the end i am just

4th quarter:

JJ 43/138 3.2avg 1TD

Barber 50/285 5.7avg 8TDs

Carries by down(yards/tds) for Barber(if you back out his 1st and goal carries barber averaged 5.38ypc on 1st down...so all those "EASY" 3rd down draw plays netted him his worst YPC other then 4th down.)

1st 63/296 7 (4.7ypc)

2nd 34/177 4 (5.21ypc)

3rd 34/176 2 (5.18ypc)

4th 4/5 1 (1.25ypc)

also fwiw Barber had 13 carries that were 1st and goal for a total of 30 yards and 7TDs...if you back those out of the 1st down carries Barber averaged a whopping 5.32ypc on 1st down.

Wait I know, Bill called the unimaginative plays for JJ because he didnt like him and called better plays for Barber because he was his pet project.

Thats it right?

and did you know that Barber had 73 carries when the boys were not leading as in behind or like LOSING oh and those 73 carries accounted for 54% of his overall carries...so Barber actually had fewer carries when the boys had a lead then when they were losing

 

[ImTheScientist]

 

[Bankerguy]

Hardly.So I guess 2 pretty good coaches (one a future hall of famer) don't know what they are doing then? However, a few guys pull out some compelling #'s (Nice effort there) and have who have watched SportsCenter highlights a couple of times are all right. Oh...did you all stay at a Holiday Inn last night too. Both backs excel at their current role, plain and simple.Nothing changes all that much this year.Just imo......JJ closes the TD gap and has the higher upside this year.

 

[Keg]

:(

Hardly.So I guess 2 pretty good coaches (one a future hall of famer) don't know what they are doing then? However, a few :( guys pull out some compelling #'s (Nice effort there) and have who have watched SportsCenter highlights a couple of times are all right. Oh...did you all stay at a Holiday Inn last night too. Both backs excel at their current role, plain and simple.Nothing changes all that much this year.Just imo......JJ closes the TD gap and has the higher upside this year.

what i have been trying to illustrate is that people have a misconceived perception of how barber gets his yards/stats...even you yourself said it was because of 3rd down draws and that just isnt the case

 

[Bankerguy]

:(

Hardly.So I guess 2 pretty good coaches (one a future hall of famer) don't know what they are doing then? However, a few :( guys pull out some compelling #'s (Nice effort there) and have who have watched SportsCenter highlights a couple of times are all right. Oh...did you all stay at a Holiday Inn last night too. Both backs excel at their current role, plain and simple.Nothing changes all that much this year.Just imo......JJ closes the TD gap and has the higher upside this year.

what i have been trying to illustrate is that people have a misconceived perception of how barber gets his yards/stats...even you yourself said it was because of 3rd down draws and that just isnt the case

I'm not going to debate the stats with you. I would submit that further analysis would need to be done those numbers to ensure they are statistically relavant. Down and distance would be a key one.It really doesn't matter to me. I watch everydown and stay on top the Cowboys everything. There are 3 seperate themes going on here. 1) Who is the better NFL back?2) Who will have the better FF stats?3) Who holds more value from a FF perspective. For me it's1)Jones2)Barber3)JonesFor the recored.....I am a Barber owner. I do not own JJ.

 

[Keg]

Hardly.So I guess 2 pretty good coaches (one a future hall of famer) don't know what they are doing then? However, a few guys pull out some compelling #'s (Nice effort there) and have who have watched SportsCenter highlights a couple of times are all right. Oh...did you all stay at a Holiday Inn last night too. Both backs excel at their current role, plain and simple.Nothing changes all that much this year.Just imo......JJ closes the TD gap and has the higher upside this year.

what i have been trying to illustrate is that people have a misconceived perception of how barber gets his yards/stats...even you yourself said it was because of 3rd down draws and that just isnt the case

I'm not going to debate the stats with you. I would submit that further analysis would need to be done those numbers to ensure they are statistically relavant. Down and distance would be a key one.It really doesn't matter to me. I watch everydown and stay on top the Cowboys everything. There are 3 seperate themes going on here. 1) Who is the better NFL back?2) Who will have the better FF stats?3) Who holds more value from a FF perspective. For me it's1)Jones2)Barber3)JonesFor the recored.....I am a Barber owner. I do not own JJ.

i agree that down and distance could change the stats but i guess then you could look at 1st down stats since 99.9999% of the time that would be a 1st and 10 situation:JJ on 1st downs: 179carries 679yards 3.8ypc 2TDsBarber on 1st downs: 63carries 296yards 4.7ypc 7TDsWell I didnt ck but my guess is that JJ had ZERO 1st and Goal carries....while I do know that Barber had 13 carries that were 1st and goal for a total of 30 yards and 7TDs...if you back those out of the 1st down carries Barber averaged a whopping 5.32ypc on 1st down...but hey I am a cowgirl hater so I hope they use 'em both wrong all year long

 

[ImTheScientist]

There are 3 seperate themes going on here. 1) Who is the better NFL back?2) Who will have the better FF stats?3) Who holds more value from a FF perspective.

1) Barber2) Barber3) BarberI think most the FBG's Staff would agree with this.....We all watch the games....some just have blinders on (Bankerguy). The only thing that Jones is faster, and more elusive, however he is not the better NFL RB. Barber's stat line does not lie, and when watching him its ovbious he is more well suited to be a NFL RB.

 

[BigJim®]

[seriously, whatever you said. It's all the same thing, post after post after post.]

Sheesh, your acknowledgment from last year was so profound, and so short lived. Here we go again, and again, and again...Next time I think about opening up a Barber thread thinking somehow, someway, new info/thoughts might be there, I'm just going to punch myself in the nose instead. There's just no point wading through all of your "I'm slobbering all over JJ's jock" hijack posts for actual info in a thread on MBIII. You don't believe in the value of better FF opportunity and better stats; we get it. Perhaps start up a "I JJ" thread for folks like you to write poems about JJ and his accomplishments between the 20's.

 

[Bankerguy]

[seriously, whatever you said. It's all the same thing, post after post after post.]

Sheesh, your acknowledgment from last year was so profound, and so short lived. Here we go again, and again, and again...Next time I think about opening up a Barber thread thinking somehow, someway, new info/thoughts might be there, I'm just going to punch myself in the nose instead. There's just no point wading through all of your "I'm slobbering all over JJ's jock" hijack posts for actual info in a thread on MBIII. You don't believe in the value of better FF opportunity and better stats; we get it. Perhaps start up a "I JJ" thread for folks like you to write poems about JJ and his accomplishments between the 20's.

I am trying to tell you that Jones will get some of the goal line carries this year. Go find some of articles written by the Dallas beat writers. Read the transcripts of all of Wade Phillips PC's. For now though, I'll digress on this debate.

When I am wrong I'll gladly admit it. Such as I did last year.

 

[Keg]

Oh really? Jones rookie year saw him average 4.2 YPC. Barber averaged a whopping 4.8 last year. Those are statistics right?

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MB3 runs draw plays against nickel defenses. I would assume his YPC would be high.

Why does no one "get" this.

I am trying to tell you that Jones will get some of the goal line carries this year. Go find some of articles written by the Dallas beat writers. Read the transcripts of all of Wade Phillips PC's.

For now though, I'll digress on this debate.

When I am wrong I'll gladly admit it. Such as I did last year.

 

[Lash]

I'm not going to debate the stats with you.

yeah if i was arguing in favor of JJ, i'd get as far away from the stats as possible too

 

[HerbieT]

Don't forget Julius Jones, in the final year of his contract, is potentially playing and auditioning for a payday with another team if his future isn't in Dallas when it's all said and done. The lure of money sure has a funny way of motivating folks, professional athletes or the regular joe.

As to this argument and in future drafts, I'm satisfied letting someone take Marion Barber off the board early. FYI, his current ADP on MockDraftCentral.com is 34.14 while Julius Jones' is 62.48. I'll take the latter at that ADP as my No. 3 or No. 4 running back should the opportunity present itself, and let someone else chase last season's numbers with Barber based on his ADP.

 

[BigJim®]

Don't forget Julius Jones, in the final year of his contract, is potentially playing and auditioning for a payday with another team if his future isn't in Dallas when it's all said and done. The lure of money sure has a funny way of motivating folks, professional athletes or the regular joe.

Isn't MBIII a RFA after this season? I wouldn't draw too big a distinction between UFA and RFA. Obviously there will be interest in Barber if he isn't tagged safely, and no doubt MBIII will want to succeed to drive up interest from other teams to help his own cause.

As to this argument and in future drafts, I'm satisfied letting someone take Marion Barber off the board early. FYI, his current ADP on MockDraftCentral.com is 34.14 while Julius Jones' is 62.48. I'll take the latter at that ADP as my No. 3 or No. 4 running back should the opportunity present itself, and let someone else chase last season's numbers with Barber based on his ADP.

That's a pretty significant discrepancy with Antsports ADP, which has 26 (12-team) mocks since August 10; MBIII is ADP 5.12, JJ 6.6. I'm curious which of the two you prefer at that ADP? Personally I would say MBIII is better value as a RB3 there than JJ. Given the uncertainty with new coaching and the articles on JJ getting a new audition, I do not get the impression guys are going out of their way to target MBIII as a RB2. I think MBIII will fall well below 34 in my local redraft, and I play with a bunch of Gopher alums.

 

[texasbirdfan]

every clown and yehew with a voice or microphone here in North Texas says MB3 is superior.

2 conclusions:

1) Tuna was a ### to JJ or

2) JJ continues to be trade bait and touting him as the starter helps with the compensation

2 starting above average backs are nice but there are 21+ other starting slots in the line-up to fill with studs or near studs.

.

 

[BigJim®]

:(

 

[Kiddnets]

Looked great last night - just dont see how they dont feed him the ball more - would have truly scary numbrs if Wade woke up and rode him.

 

[BigJim®]

Week 1 is just that. However, looks like a lot of <crickets> from prior MBIII naysayers from this forum. At one point, certain resident posters referred us to Cowboys messageboards for 'the insider view' on the MBIII/JJ situation. I did that today, and here's what I read part way into a few threads, taking no liberties with what was written:

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Also up till now I have not got into the whole Barber and JJ thing as far as who's better or who should start. But let me just say that I'm really starting to believe MB3 is the better back!!! After last night, you can clearly see MB3 runs with purpose, passion and umph and some speed mind you!!! He make splays (4th down and 1 TD run), the same line is blocking for JJ and all I'm seeing is getting hit in the back field going down or 1-2 yard runs. I'm no longer sold on JJ being the better back!!I'm not gonna say MB3 should start but I will say I wouldnt mind, nor would I mind if MB3 got the majority of the carries because it just seems to me he makes more plays period!!! And for anyone that says well MB is going against a tired worn down def because of JJ, well last not they got their own series' to play and show what they could do!!! I'm not say JJ is a bad back or that he didnt do anything for us he went 16att for 66 yards but MB had 65 yards on only 11 att's and a TD!! I love the fact that we have both but I really do believe now that MB might be a better back period!!!

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I agree on both fronts. I have been a JJ fan since he was drafted, and gave him the benefit of the doubt, but he looked very ROBOTIC. He runs into the pile and gets nailed. I don't care who starts, but it is obvious that MBIII gets the job done
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I also agree on MBIII. He seems to run with more passion than Jones. Jones, seems too worried about what people think, how he looks and he doesn't seem to have as much passion as the other runners. I also seem him try to Juke a lot, but he is not good at it and he does it way to early and he doesn't seem to have the quick feet that barber does. I am not talking about speed, but feet quickness. I think by mid season we may see barber starting.
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MBIII - just brings a spark that JuJo can't seem to consistenly bring. I'm not against JuJo at all but he blamed his lackluster running last year on Parcells making him run like a robot but so far throught he pre-season and the first game he still runs way too much like c-3po for my liking.
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Your best point you made was the fact that MB runs with passion. The only time Jones got mad and ran with a "chip on his shoulder" was bringing us down the field to go for the game winner in Seattle when he got mad a Babineaux for cutting out his knees on the first run of that series. I swear to you once he became mad he hit the holes so much harder and ran with passion for once! Yes, Barber is the better back. Jones gives up WAY TOO many downs. It seems as though it is always second and 8 after he lunges forward into a pile everytime he touches the ball. Defenses are much more scared of him as well it seems!
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Man does this kid run with fire in his eyes. MBIII should get WAY more carries in future games. everytime i watch him run it seems like hes gonna bust out a TD.IM a fan of JJ as well but MBIII is where its at!!!

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MBIII was awesome last night. That TD run was a thing of power and beauty. Wouldn't hurt my feelings if he started.

Jones should get his touches too though. Together they rushed for 131 yards and a 4.8 average. I'll take that all day long.

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I venture to say that MBIII plays the type of football that would even get a "thumbs up" from Vince Lombardi (well, if he weren't dead). I swear, everytime Barber runs it's like his first goal is to deliver punishment to the defense, and his second goal is to get enough yards so that the coaches will put him back on the field so that he can deliver punishment to the defense.

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Marion Barber is officially the best back on this team. Sorry Julius. That being said I don't want Barber to start. Let Julius get in there and run side to side and let the defense get worn down a little because when Barber comes in everything just picks up.

Hes like a shot of adrenaline and I love the roll we use him in and would like to keep it that way.

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I agree, on Juluis and MBIII. Marion just seems to have so much more passion running. JJ looks worried about what people think and how he looks. he also doesn't have very quick feet compared to marion. I am not talking about speed, but feet quickness, there is something about MBIII.
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Observations from Last Night --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Barber is much better than JJ.

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Sorry this is a bit late but long story. Here are my observations about that game.1.) MBIII is the better of the two RB as of this last game. Now will that change I dont know but JJ couldnt sniff his jock last night. O and that wasnt against a tired defense after JJ wore them down like all the JJ people claim happened allot last year.

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Again, just first week, I know. However, as a U of M fan who has always believed in Barber, it's great to see that Cowboy fans may be coming around.

 

[DawnBTVS]

Watching the TD run last night, was I the only one that caught that Barber was a 50% short yardage back and would've been brought down on that 4th down run if he didn't power through the arm tackle?

I'll grant that it was a great TD run but at the same time, I was a little concerned that it could've just as easily swung the other way into a turnover on downs.

 

[Bankerguy]

By Rafael Vela

Zero — the number of times you had to endure the Giants “jump shot” team sack dance.

They got Romo once, but they were losing and didn’t exactly feel like strutting.

– I’m amazed that the Julius vs. Marion debate has reared its head, after a game when both backs averaged more than four yards a carry. And yet on the day after Dallas gets 131 rushing yards from its backs on just 25 carries we’re subjected to it for the umpteenth time.

Were you not the fan base that was flogging Julius Jones regularly last year? Yes you were.

And were you not the same fan base that went apoplectic when I suggested trading Jones before the draft, arguing that Barber isn’t ready to handle the load himself?

Yes you are.

Make up your minds. Or better yet, find something better to obsess over. It’s not like Dallas doesn’t have lots of other worthy candidates.

They’re both good backs. They’re both flawed backs. Barber tries running like Barry Sanders, trying to bust everything outside. Only he lacks Barry’s speed, though he’s got plenty of mean. Which means sometimes Barber will get the corner and make huge plays, as he did on his second quarter TD run. Other times, his outside bounces will drop him for no gain or a loss, when dropping his head and following his blocks would net him three yards.

It’s one reason why Barber has been so poor in 4th down runs, as an NBC graphic showed last night. It’s why Bill Parcells benched him his rookie year, when he tried to take a red zone 4th and inches in Oakland around the corner and was dropped for a two yard loss.

I love Barber’s heart. I love his power. I’m not always impressed with his decision making.

But in the grander scheme of things, neither he nor Julius Jones are problems.

 

[aggie_dave]

By Rafael Vela

Zero — the number of times you had to endure the Giants “jump shot” team sack dance.

They got Romo once, but they were losing and didn’t exactly feel like strutting.

– I’m amazed that the Julius vs. Marion debate has reared its head, after a game when both backs averaged more than four yards a carry. And yet on the day after Dallas gets 131 rushing yards from its backs on just 25 carries we’re subjected to it for the umpteenth time.

Were you not the fan base that was flogging Julius Jones regularly last year? Yes you were.

And were you not the same fan base that went apoplectic when I suggested trading Jones before the draft, arguing that Barber isn’t ready to handle the load himself?

Yes you are.

Make up your minds. Or better yet, find something better to obsess over. It’s not like Dallas doesn’t have lots of other worthy candidates.

They’re both good backs. They’re both flawed backs. Barber tries running like Barry Sanders, trying to bust everything outside. Only he lacks Barry’s speed, though he’s got plenty of mean. Which means sometimes Barber will get the corner and make huge plays, as he did on his second quarter TD run. Other times, his outside bounces will drop him for no gain or a loss, when dropping his head and following his blocks would net him three yards.

It’s one reason why Barber has been so poor in 4th down runs, as an NBC graphic showed last night. It’s why Bill Parcells benched him his rookie year, when he tried to take a red zone 4th and inches in Oakland around the corner and was dropped for a two yard loss.

I love Barber’s heart. I love his power. I’m not always impressed with his decision making.

But in the grander scheme of things, neither he nor Julius Jones are problems.

I think you have good points, but the fact that the coached went on in a press conference to say that there will be games when MBIII will get more carries than JJ is significant. We're talking about a guy that was thought to be relegated primarily to 3rd down duty and close yardage/TD carries. If given the lions share of carries, he could really be a great back (~7 ypc last night in "non-mop up duty"). He's better at the goal line (no vulture threat), he's better in 3rd down situations, and he's been better on 1st and 2nd down carries at the very least throughout preseason and game 1. I'm not trying to over react after just one game, but I those are just some of my thoughts.Oh, and for those who require links to everything: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7285/news

 

[BigJim®]

They’re both flawed backs.

Barber: Most productive 'flawed back' in the NFL hands down.

 

[Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll]