Player Spotlight: Michael Vick (1 Viewer)

[The Man with the Plan]

Michael Vick can't get suspended if he isn't convicted

That's wrong information. See, Adam Jones.

Pac Man Jones was on probation. You can't be on probation if you weren't convicted of a crime. The media keeps saying that he wasn't convicted of a crime but that's not true. Add to the fact that he failed to report a couple of arrest to the Titans organization which was a clear violation of his contract and that was all the ammo that the commisioner needed to suspend him. Chris Henry and Tank Williams were also convicted of their criminal behavior and that's why they were suspended.Michael Vick on the other hand hasn't violated any team or league rules nor has he been convicted of a crime like Pacman Jones. So my point still stands that as long as Vick has not been convicted of a crime then he cannot be suspended.

 

[Mark Wimer]

Michael Vick can't get suspended if he isn't convicted

That's wrong information. See, Adam Jones.

Pac Man Jones was on probation. You can't be on probation if you weren't convicted of a crime. The media keeps saying that he wasn't convicted of a crime but that's not true. Add to the fact that he failed to report a couple of arrest to the Titans organization which was a clear violation of his contract and that was all the ammo that the commisioner needed to suspend him. Chris Henry and Tank Williams were also convicted of their criminal behavior and that's why they were suspended.Michael Vick on the other hand hasn't violated any team or league rules nor has he been convicted of a crime like Pacman Jones. So my point still stands that as long as Vick has not been convicted of a crime then he cannot be suspended.

Vick has assured Arthur Blank and Commissioner Goodell (in a private meeting arranged by Blank) that he is in no way involved in this dogfighting ring. If the Feds have compelling evidence to the contrary, I think it is highly likely that commissioner Goodell and/or his employer would be inclined to suspend Vick for misleading the Falcons/NFL/commissioners' office as to the extent of his involvement in this public-relations nightmare sort of illegal entertainment. Remember, the commissioner is working to clean up the image of the league - the league's image would take a huge hit in the case of one of their highest profile players being charged in a dogfighting/illegal gambling ring. Also, illegal gambling is not something pro sports organizations smile upon (just ask Pete Rose). To assert that Vick hasn't violated any team or league rules (or to assert that he has) is beyond my scope of knowledge. I remember Jax WR Jimmy Smith, who was perceived to be one of the league's good guys, was suddenly suspended due to substance violations (cocaine) that had been kept quiet up until his 3rd strike forced the suspension. Remember Vick's water bottle?...

Also, conduct unbecoming/conduct detrimental clauses do not require a team to have some sort of conviction in a court of law before acting against a player with a suspension. There are numerous examples of clubs using this clause to suspend a player, starting with another high-profile player named Terrell Owens (see his last year in Philadelphia for only one example of this clause in action). Here is a summary of the TO/Philly incident at Wikipedia for your reference.

MW

 

[The Man with the Plan]

Michael Vick can't get suspended if he isn't convicted

That's wrong information. See, Adam Jones.

Pac Man Jones was on probation. You can't be on probation if you weren't convicted of a crime. The media keeps saying that he wasn't convicted of a crime but that's not true. Add to the fact that he failed to report a couple of arrest to the Titans organization which was a clear violation of his contract and that was all the ammo that the commisioner needed to suspend him. Chris Henry and Tank Williams were also convicted of their criminal behavior and that's why they were suspended.Michael Vick on the other hand hasn't violated any team or league rules nor has he been convicted of a crime like Pacman Jones. So my point still stands that as long as Vick has not been convicted of a crime then he cannot be suspended.

Vick has assured Arthur Blank and Commissioner Goodell (in a private meeting arranged by Blank) that he is in no way involved in this dogfighting ring. If the Feds have compelling evidence to the contrary, I think it is highly likely that commissioner Goodell and/or his employer would be inclined to suspend Vick for misleading the Falcons/NFL/commissioners' office as to the extent of his involvement in this public-relations nightmare sort of illegal entertainment. Remember, the commissioner is working to clean up the image of the league - the league's image would take a huge hit in the case of one of their highest profile players being charged in a dogfighting/illegal gambling ring. Also, illegal gambling is not something pro sports organizations smile upon (just ask Pete Rose). To assert that Vick hasn't violated any team or league rules (or to assert that he has) is beyond my scope of knowledge. I remember Jax WR Jimmy Smith, who was perceived to be one of the league's good guys, was suddenly suspended due to substance violations (cocaine) that had been kept quiet up until his 3rd strike forced the suspension. Remember Vick's water bottle?...

Also, conduct unbecoming/conduct detrimental clauses do not require a team to have some sort of conviction in a court of law before acting against a player with a suspension. There are numerous examples of clubs using this clause to suspend a player, starting with another high-profile player named Terrell Owens (see his last year in Philadelphia for only one example of this clause in action). Here is a summary of the TO/Philly incident at Wikipedia for your reference.

MW

I can't really see the Atlanta Falcons organization suspending Michael Vick. For all of the suspicion about Vick he's never been convicted of doing anything wrong. Questionable as it may have seemed, Michael Vick was cleared of any wrongdoing in terms of the water bottle situation. I don't think that you can compare TO to Vick because Owens was just calling out management as well as his quarterback, Donovan McNabb as well as getting into a fistfight with Hugh Douglas. He was suspended at first for 4 weeks, and then later on for the season for continued behavior. Vick on the other hand has been a model teammate. His teammates love him to death. Atlanta loves him. So in that regard I can't see the organization suspending him. That'd be up to the commisioner Roger Goddell.

As I said before the commisioner had valid reasons to suspend the three players in Tank Williams, Chris Henry, and PacMan Jones. They were convicted criminals who violated NFL policies. That is not the case with Michael Vick. Even if he is indicted I don't think he'll suspend Michael Vick unless he's convicted.

He can try but what happens if Michael Vick is acquitted in a trial? He'll have suspended Vick for nothing essentially and he sets the league up for a possible lawsuit of Vick trying to recoup lost earnings. I don't think the NFLPA will go for this either. That would give the commisioner entirely too much power to be able to suspend players on suspicion alone.

At some point due process has to come into play. No matter what happens Michael Vick is innocent until proven guilty. It would be an awfully big risk for the NFL or the Atlanta Falcons to suspend someone when they've not done anything wrong and I don't think that's a risk they're willing to take.

 

[Perry Ice]

I think the real X factor (assuming he is playing the year) is the effect of the new system. I think its a general rule that a new system for a QB = an adjustment period, and a regression on stats. But, for a QB who has not had stellar success in the previous system, I think a new system presents oppurtuinty for growth, especially when success was not had in the previous system. It would be hard for Vick to regress from 2,400 yards passing in a Petrino offence scheme. Even if Vick doesn't grasp the whole scheme and playbook and in year 1... it is a scheme that in my opinion presents a better oppurtuinty to put up fantasy numbers then the previous Mora system.

I think many fantasy football players are wrapped in the theory that a new system automatically equals a regression in last years stats. But if your previous system was less prosperous then then one you enter, then even if you struggle in that system...you still can put up much better FF numbers then when in a previous weaker FF system. Perfect case in point to prove this last year is Jon Kitna. Kitna by all accounts struggled in the Martz system...but still saw career numbers in his 1st year in a Mike Martz system. So new system doesn't always = less fantasy numbers. If that system is better designed for FF success it could very well mean an increase in the previous stats. I think that is what Vick is in line for this year going from the FF crippling Mora offence...to a more prosporous Petrino offence.

Our only year of comparison with Vick in a non-Mora system yields Vick's best season as a FF player. we have to assume that Mora's system was weighing down Vick's value as a passer... if Petrino sticks to his preference of a power running game and spread offence...I think it gives the oppurtuinty for Vick to put up better pasing numbers.

For me this more then anything is our real X factor in prediciting Vick's value.

If Vick goes for even 75% of the numbers he put up in his full non-Mora system we are looking him to be in line with passing numbers he put up in Mora's system:

2,202 yards passing 12 PTD, 582 rushing yards 6TD = 246

Now I know you look at those numbers and want to puke...as they look ugly...but that puts him at QB10 last year. As many have said above...Vick does not score like a traditional QB, even when his stats look putride...he is still a very serviceable QB1. If he plays at least 14 games....no way do I see Vick falling below QB15. With Vick's legs...he is one of the safest QB to finish a season in the top 15 year in and year out.

If Petrino can add that little extra to his passing game, even if the rushing numbers regress....I think Vick becomes in line for a productive season. Lets predict the same passing numbers he put up in the non-mora season, with a 60% decress in his rushing stats from last year, and mean of his rushing TD in his career. That puts him at the following

2,900 16PTD, 623 rushing yards 4TD = 295.3 ....which equals QB#7 last year, for a guy that can be had in round 9-10 ...I believe the represents value.

 

[The Man with the Plan]

Michael Vick played in one of the best QB systems the last 3 seasons in the WCO (west coast offense). His completion percentages those 3 seasons were 56.4, 55.3, and 52.6%. If he wasn't accurate in that offense what in the world makes people think he's going to improve his passing in any other offense. What's so special about this new coach that's going to make Vick a better passer when he couldn't even reach 57% in the west coast offense?

Obviously his best asset is his running ability. Why are people always looking to take that away from him. Coaches need to stop trying to change Vick. He's never going to be Steve Young, Jeff Garcia, or Daunte Culpepper. It's just not going to happen.

If Petrino is smart he continues to let Vick be Vick. Michael Vick is an inaccurate passer who also happens to be one of the 5 fastest players in the league. Take away his running game and what has he got then?

 

[StrikeS2k]

For running a criminal gambling and dog-fighting ring out of his house, Michael Vick is going to going to get his head mounted on the wall of the new commissioner's office. I believe he won't play a down this year.0/0/0/0