Player Spotlight: Sidney Rice & Percy Harvin (1 Viewer)

[Jason Wood]

2009 Player Spotlight Series

One of Footballguys best assets is our message board community. The Shark Pool is, in our view, the best place on the internet to discuss, debate and analyze all things fantasy football. In what's become an annual tradition, the Player Spotlight series is a key part of the preseason efforts. As many of you know, we consider the Player Spotlight threads the permanent record for analyzing the fantasy prospects of the player in question. Last year, we published more than 120 offensive spotlights covering the vast majority of expected skill position starters. This year will be no different.

Each week we will post a list of players to be discussed. Those threads will remain open for the entire preseason, and should be a central point to discussion expectations for the player in question. Importantly, analysis done in the first week of posting will be part of the permanent record in two ways. 1) At the end of the week, we will tally the projections into a consensus. 2) We will select a number of pull quotes from forum contributors who make a compelling statement or observation. Both the projections and pull quotes will be part of a published article on the main website.

Thread Topic: Sidney Rice & Percy Harvin, WRs, Minnesota Vikings

Player Page Link: Sidney Rice Player Page

Player Page Link: Percy Harvin Player Page

Each article will include:

Detailed viewpoint from a Footballguys staff member
Highlighted member commentary from the message board threads
FBG Projections
Consensus Member ProjectionsThe Rules

In order for this thread to provide maximum value, we ask that you follow a few simple guidelines:

Focus commentary on the player in question, and your expectations for said player
Back up your expectations in whatever manner you deem appropriate; avoid posts that simply say "I hate him" or "He's the best"
To be included in the final synopsis and consensus outlook, you MUST provide projections for the playerProjections should include (at a minimum):

For QBs: Attempts, Completions, Passing Yards, Passing TDs, Ints, Rush Yards, Rush TDs
For RBs: Rushes, Rushing Yards, Rush TDs, Receptions, Receiving Yards, Receiving TDs
For WRs & TEs: Receptions, Receiving Yards, Receiving TDsNow let's get on with the conversation! We look forward to your contributions and let me offer a personal thanks in anticipation of the great debate and analysis.

 

[kremenull]

There are very few guys in the league who can be considered "game-changers". I believe that a real game-changer is a player who regularly, not just every blue moon, makes the types of plays and/or enjoys the types of games that are just special.....these guys change the momentum and many times the outcome of games. Percy Harvin is such a guy. Not every team has one of these guys, and the teams that do are wise to utilize them. In understanding this dynamic, leads to a fair projection that many consider too optimistic.

But here's why: Harvin will take touches away from everyone on offense, excluding Peterson. I would not look for an increase in touches for Berrian, Shiancoe, or Taylor this year. This will be true because aside from Harvin being added to the mix, the expected return to health of Sidney Rice will also spread the wealth a bit more amongst these options on offense.

Look for 10-12 touches per game for Harvin. At least roughly 8 from scrimmage (on offense) with a few on special teams. With that I can see a healthy split between receptions and carries from scrimmage.

62 carries, 445 rush yds, 2 TDs

58 receptions, 730 rec yds, 6 TDs

I'm snapping this guy up at every opportunity, redraft and/or dynasty while most everyone else takes a "wait'-and-see" approach......You'll be 2 LATE if you're in my leagues.

 

[CravenM]

I'm as big a Gator as they come and certainly a fan of Percy - Oh Mercy!!!

But I have no idea how creative the offensive mind is going to be in Minnesota. If there's no respectable downfield receiver threat, the DBs are going to play within the 10 yard area and limit the effectiveness of Harvin and the passing game.

The offense that Urban Meyer runs takes a QB that can do anything and do it well - and the Vikings don't have the QB do it. That's how Harvin shined and I have no idea what's going to happen with the Vikings. I'd love to him play as a primary WR like Steve Smith - Percy has some guns and can get to full speed in 2 steps like SS.

 

[Weiner Dog]

Tyrell Johnson on Percy Harvin:

Safety Tyrell Johnson talked about Harvin’s speed and how much pressure it puts on the defense.

“He’s stretching our defense so I know he’s going to stretch everybody else’s defense when game time comes,” Johnson said. “He’s a blazer. He’s the fastest guy I’ve seen on the field yet.”

Even faster than Adrian Peterson? “It’s close. I would like to see that foot race between those two.”

Tyrell Johnson confirming that Sidney Rice is starting over Bobby Wade:

“It’s tough. You have Adrian and Percy back there. If they train him to throw the ball you have to worry about Bernard [berrian] and Sid [Rice] as the receivers. It’s like, how do you win against that.”

link:

http://blogs.startribune.com/vikingsblog/?p=3135

 

[deliverator]

Do you think Harvin will still be listed as a WR by fantasy leagues when the season starts? He could end up getting 5-8 rushes a game in addition to the receptions and be a steal at WR. Kind of like Colston as a TE in Yahoo.

 

[kremenull]

Do you think Harvin will still be listed as a WR by fantasy leagues when the season starts? He could end up getting 5-8 rushes a game in addition to the receptions and be a steal at WR. Kind of like Colston as a TE in Yahoo.

He is listed as WR in mfl, don't see how he'd be listed as anything else in other databases. But you are exactly right, kinda like Colston as TE in yahho, with Harvin listed as WR should be beneficial once the rushing yardage starts to pile up. While I still see Berrian getting selected well ahead of Harvin in redrafts, this makes zero sense. All of the guys who keep believing that Berrian and Chester are relevant still, time to rethink that. When I first made this projection back in June, the cynics were out in full force attempting to discredit my thinking on how Percy would, and no doubt should, be utilized. Well, normally I wouldn't feel the need to toot my own horn, so to speak, but since I got so much flak from quite a few people in here of how my projection was so far out of line, I'm not going to resist this one time.



Yeah, I know it hasn't happened yet. But yeah, it has.....

 

[brakeyawself]

Lastest Blips:

Aug 8

Sidney Rice has reportedly made a "significant jump" since last summer.

A promising young prospect at this time a year ago, Rice's 2008 season was sabotaged by a lingering knee injury. Now healthy and noticeably stronger, he's out-muscling defensive backs for position. While he's an intriguing red-zone weapon, Rice's 2009 touches will be limited by the presence of Percy Harvin.

Source: ESPN.com

Aug 11

Sidney Rice is listed as the starting flanker on the Vikings' first training camp depth chart.

The Vikings have big plans for Percy Harvin but he's on the third team, behind Rice and Bobby Wade. That goes to show how useful this depth chart is. Harvin is listed as the starting kick returner, with Jaymar Johnson on punts.

Source: St. Paul Pioneer Press

So does Harvin limit Rice or Harvin limit Berrian? Id have to go with Berrian. Rice has a different skillset and Id believe the vikes would take advantage of that. In actuality Harvin may not have that big an impact on the other two in his Rookie year, but if he does, I definitley think its Berrian.

Gotta like these blips about Rice though. He's always had the talent.

 

[Gr00vus]

Lastest Blips:Aug 8Sidney Rice has reportedly made a "significant jump" since last summer.A promising young prospect at this time a year ago, Rice's 2008 season was sabotaged by a lingering knee injury. Now healthy and noticeably stronger, he's out-muscling defensive backs for position. While he's an intriguing red-zone weapon, Rice's 2009 touches will be limited by the presence of Percy Harvin.Source: ESPN.com Aug 11Sidney Rice is listed as the starting flanker on the Vikings' first training camp depth chart.The Vikings have big plans for Percy Harvin but he's on the third team, behind Rice and Bobby Wade. That goes to show how useful this depth chart is. Harvin is listed as the starting kick returner, with Jaymar Johnson on punts.Source: St. Paul Pioneer Press So does Harvin limit Rice or Harvin limit Berrian? Id have to go with Berrian. Rice has a different skillset and Id believe the vikes would take advantage of that. In actuality Harvin may not have that big an impact on the other two in his Rookie year, but if he does, I definitley think its Berrian. Gotta like these blips about Rice though. He's always had the talent.

Rice is a compelling option in TD heavy leagues as he's a great end zone target.

 

[kremenull]

Lastest Blips:Aug 8Sidney Rice has reportedly made a "significant jump" since last summer.A promising young prospect at this time a year ago, Rice's 2008 season was sabotaged by a lingering knee injury. Now healthy and noticeably stronger, he's out-muscling defensive backs for position. While he's an intriguing red-zone weapon, Rice's 2009 touches will be limited by the presence of Percy Harvin.Source: ESPN.com Aug 11Sidney Rice is listed as the starting flanker on the Vikings' first training camp depth chart.The Vikings have big plans for Percy Harvin but he's on the third team, behind Rice and Bobby Wade. That goes to show how useful this depth chart is. Harvin is listed as the starting kick returner, with Jaymar Johnson on punts.Source: St. Paul Pioneer Press So does Harvin limit Rice or Harvin limit Berrian? Id have to go with Berrian. Rice has a different skillset and Id believe the vikes would take advantage of that. In actuality Harvin may not have that big an impact on the other two in his Rookie year, but if he does, I definitley think its Berrian. Gotta like these blips about Rice though. He's always had the talent.

I've always liked Rice's talent and he has been good in the red zone even though he hasn't put up huge numbers, yet. I actually have him rated ahead of Berrian in my dynasty rankings, for which many have also disagreed with. Even this year, I still expect Harvin to limit all of these guys' touches (Berrian, Shiancoe, Taylor, and Rice) as he is just too dynamic to not utilize. These depth charts are pretty meaningless, IMO, and often used as a smoke-screen since Childress already gushed too much about Harvin this could be his attempt to try to mask their intent on his usage and importance. Clearly, he will not be 3rd team, he will get the most snaps, and touches, outside of Peterson. If this doesn't happen, and the Vikes are anything less than 5-3, Childress will be fired by midseason.

 

[brakeyawself]

Lastest Blips:

Aug 8

Sidney Rice has reportedly made a "significant jump" since last summer.

A promising young prospect at this time a year ago, Rice's 2008 season was sabotaged by a lingering knee injury. Now healthy and noticeably stronger, he's out-muscling defensive backs for position. While he's an intriguing red-zone weapon, Rice's 2009 touches will be limited by the presence of Percy Harvin.

Source: ESPN.com

Aug 11

Sidney Rice is listed as the starting flanker on the Vikings' first training camp depth chart.

The Vikings have big plans for Percy Harvin but he's on the third team, behind Rice and Bobby Wade. That goes to show how useful this depth chart is. Harvin is listed as the starting kick returner, with Jaymar Johnson on punts.

Source: St. Paul Pioneer Press

So does Harvin limit Rice or Harvin limit Berrian? Id have to go with Berrian. Rice has a different skillset and Id believe the vikes would take advantage of that. In actuality Harvin may not have that big an impact on the other two in his Rookie year, but if he does, I definitley think its Berrian.

Gotta like these blips about Rice though. He's always had the talent.

I've always liked Rice's talent and he has been good in the red zone even though he hasn't put up huge numbers, yet. I actually have him rated ahead of Berrian in my dynasty rankings, for which many have also disagreed with. Even this year, I still expect Harvin to limit all of these guys' touches (Berrian, Shiancoe, Taylor, and Rice) as he is just too dynamic to not utilize. These depth charts are pretty meaningless, IMO, and often used as a smoke-screen since Childress already gushed too much about Harvin this could be his attempt to try to mask their intent on his usage and importance. Clearly, he will not be 3rd team, he will get the most snaps, and touches, outside of Peterson. If this doesn't happen, and the Vikes are anything less than 5-3, Childress will be fired by midseason.

I dont think it is a given that he gets the most snaps and touches outside of Peterson. Preseason coach gushing is in my opinion as meaningless as preseason depth charts. We have yet to see how Harvins talent really translates to the NFL game. He wouldnt be the first Dynamo to fail or take longer than expected to progress. Ive liked everything comeing out about Harvin allready, but I definitley think a lot of the estimates on his touches are on the high side. They will certainly try to get him involved, that I believe. But honestly, I think Rice's skillset translates to a be top WR moreso than Harvin. Harvins position is what is dynamic, and dont know how consistant he could be.

 

[jsharlan]

I dunno if Im ready to jump on the bandwagon of a guy who hasnt played a professional snap yet and has injury concerns. Like we've seen many times success in college doesnt mean success in the pros. Being productive in a spread offense with a QB the size of a linebacker doesnt always translate into the standard offenses of the NFL. Im not saying hes not going to make some plays in his rookie year, but hailing him as the second coming seems a bit premature.

 

[kremenull]

I dunno if Im ready to jump on the bandwagon of a guy who hasnt played a professional snap yet and has injury concerns. Like we've seen many times success in college doesnt mean success in the pros. Being productive in a spread offense with a QB the size of a linebacker doesnt always translate into the standard offenses of the NFL. Im not saying hes not going to make some plays in his rookie year, but hailing him as the second coming seems a bit premature.

Yep, I know it's hard to believe. But sometimes, the signals are a bit too obvious and the talent a bit too good, to NOT see it. In this game of fantasy football, the guys that see it ahead of it actually happening, tend to be quite successful. There are a significant number of guys who make a huge imprint in fantasy, and the NFL, for the first time, each and every year. If we "wait and see", then how do you think you will acquire them. Trade an incredibly high price, that's your only avenue. Again, the guy who saw it ahead of time, wins as he has the treasured asset. But when you can simply draft the V-Jaxes, Pierres, Rodgers', DeSeans, Slatons, and Chris Johnsons of the world in '08, why not do it? Try getting them now from their owners. Guys as talented as Percy are in no way tied to any system, like the spread offense, as mentioned. Playmakers of his ilk simply get on the field and make it happen. The skill-set is just too great, he'll easily learn the finer points of route-running as he already has the tools to excel at it.....super quick in and out of his breaks/cuts, excellent quickness off the snap and splendid change of direction. These cannot be taught, he is blessed. And when you have these, they translate. For those still on the fence, seems to me that you either missed the boat and failed to land him, or you have some other vested interest on the Vikes. My only advice at this point is to stop fighting it, and get on board......

 

[jsharlan]

I have him on one of my teams, its not like Im avoiding him. Im just not foaming at the mouth either. I live a few miles from where he grew up and alot of the locals tell me they will be surprised if he manages to stay out of trouble. I have no doubt he'll make some plays, but enough to make him fantasy starting worthy? I dont know just yet. For now he will remain on my taxi squad.

 

[brakeyawself]

I dunno if Im ready to jump on the bandwagon of a guy who hasnt played a professional snap yet and has injury concerns. Like we've seen many times success in college doesnt mean success in the pros. Being productive in a spread offense with a QB the size of a linebacker doesnt always translate into the standard offenses of the NFL. Im not saying hes not going to make some plays in his rookie year, but hailing him as the second coming seems a bit premature.

Yep, I know it's hard to believe. But sometimes, the signals are a bit too obvious and the talent a bit too good, to NOT see it. In this game of fantasy football, the guys that see it ahead of it actually happening, tend to be quite successful. There are a significant number of guys who make a huge imprint in fantasy, and the NFL, for the first time, each and every year. If we "wait and see", then how do you think you will acquire them. Trade an incredibly high price, that's your only avenue. Again, the guy who saw it ahead of time, wins as he has the treasured asset. But when you can simply draft the V-Jaxes, Pierres, Rodgers', DeSeans, Slatons, and Chris Johnsons of the world in '08, why not do it? Try getting them now from their owners. Guys as talented as Percy are in no way tied to any system, like the spread offense, as mentioned. Playmakers of his ilk simply get on the field and make it happen. The skill-set is just too great, he'll easily learn the finer points of route-running as he already has the tools to excel at it.....super quick in and out of his breaks/cuts, excellent quickness off the snap and splendid change of direction. These cannot be taught, he is blessed. And when you have these, they translate. For those still on the fence, seems to me that you either missed the boat and failed to land him, or you have some other vested interest on the Vikes. My only advice at this point is to stop fighting it, and get on board......

I think you guys are smoking out that bus...........But seriously, what other "playmakers of his ilk" have just got on the field right away to make it happen? Is there any good comparison to assume he is automatic for fantasy success?

 

[kremenull]

I dunno if Im ready to jump on the bandwagon of a guy who hasnt played a professional snap yet and has injury concerns. Like we've seen many times success in college doesnt mean success in the pros. Being productive in a spread offense with a QB the size of a linebacker doesnt always translate into the standard offenses of the NFL. Im not saying hes not going to make some plays in his rookie year, but hailing him as the second coming seems a bit premature.

Yep, I know it's hard to believe. But sometimes, the signals are a bit too obvious and the talent a bit too good, to NOT see it. In this game of fantasy football, the guys that see it ahead of it actually happening, tend to be quite successful. There are a significant number of guys who make a huge imprint in fantasy, and the NFL, for the first time, each and every year. If we "wait and see", then how do you think you will acquire them. Trade an incredibly high price, that's your only avenue. Again, the guy who saw it ahead of time, wins as he has the treasured asset. But when you can simply draft the V-Jaxes, Pierres, Rodgers', DeSeans, Slatons, and Chris Johnsons of the world in '08, why not do it? Try getting them now from their owners.

Guys as talented as Percy are in no way tied to any system, like the spread offense, as mentioned. Playmakers of his ilk simply get on the field and make it happen. The skill-set is just too great, he'll easily learn the finer points of route-running as he already has the tools to excel at it.....super quick in and out of his breaks/cuts, excellent quickness off the snap and splendid change of direction. These cannot be taught, he is blessed. And when you have these, they translate. For those still on the fence, seems to me that you either missed the boat and failed to land him, or you have some other vested interest on the Vikes. My only advice at this point is to stop fighting it, and get on board......

I think you guys are smoking out that bus...........But seriously, what other "playmakers of his ilk" have just got on the field right away to make it happen? Is there any good comparison to assume he is automatic for fantasy success?

Other playmakers of his ilk? I dunno, some guys named.....

1. Reggie Bush (rookie year '06)

2. Eric Metcalf (rookie year '89)

3. DeSean Jackson (rookie year '08)

Just a few guys with similar skill-set and dynamic playmaking ability who came in and lit it up, number 1 and 2 with very good all-purpose yardage ability probably the better comparisons than DeSean, who was pretty much strictly receiving. But DeSean is mentioned as he and Percy have similar game-breaking abilities whenever they touch the ball.

Under current scoring rules for PPR, Metcalf would have scored about 215 fantasy points his rookie year with 1030 total yds, 54 receptions, and 10 TDs....

If I'm smoking anything, it will be my victory "stogie" ala Red Auerbach after Percy (hopefully) provides me with that needed edge over my opponents to win me several titles this year. And I feel pretty good about that hope right about now based on my projections listed in the first response to this thread.......

 

[Lab]

Other playmakers of his ilk? I dunno, some guys named.....1. Reggie Bush (rookie year '06)2. Eric Metcalf (rookie year '89)3. DeSean Jackson (rookie year '08)

Devin Hester too perhaps.

 

[Buffaloes]

Other playmakers of his ilk? I dunno, some guys named.....1. Reggie Bush (rookie year '06)2. Eric Metcalf (rookie year '89)3. DeSean Jackson (rookie year '08)

Devin Hester too perhaps.

Maybe even Peter Warrick....

 

[brakeyawself]

I dunno if Im ready to jump on the bandwagon of a guy who hasnt played a professional snap yet and has injury concerns. Like we've seen many times success in college doesnt mean success in the pros. Being productive in a spread offense with a QB the size of a linebacker doesnt always translate into the standard offenses of the NFL. Im not saying hes not going to make some plays in his rookie year, but hailing him as the second coming seems a bit premature.

Yep, I know it's hard to believe. But sometimes, the signals are a bit too obvious and the talent a bit too good, to NOT see it. In this game of fantasy football, the guys that see it ahead of it actually happening, tend to be quite successful. There are a significant number of guys who make a huge imprint in fantasy, and the NFL, for the first time, each and every year. If we "wait and see", then how do you think you will acquire them. Trade an incredibly high price, that's your only avenue. Again, the guy who saw it ahead of time, wins as he has the treasured asset. But when you can simply draft the V-Jaxes, Pierres, Rodgers', DeSeans, Slatons, and Chris Johnsons of the world in '08, why not do it? Try getting them now from their owners.

Guys as talented as Percy are in no way tied to any system, like the spread offense, as mentioned. Playmakers of his ilk simply get on the field and make it happen. The skill-set is just too great, he'll easily learn the finer points of route-running as he already has the tools to excel at it.....super quick in and out of his breaks/cuts, excellent quickness off the snap and splendid change of direction. These cannot be taught, he is blessed. And when you have these, they translate. For those still on the fence, seems to me that you either missed the boat and failed to land him, or you have some other vested interest on the Vikes. My only advice at this point is to stop fighting it, and get on board......

I think you guys are smoking out that bus...........But seriously, what other "playmakers of his ilk" have just got on the field right away to make it happen? Is there any good comparison to assume he is automatic for fantasy success?

Other playmakers of his ilk? I dunno, some guys named.....

1. Reggie Bush (rookie year '06)

2. Eric Metcalf (rookie year '89)

3. DeSean Jackson (rookie year '08)

Just a few guys with similar skill-set and dynamic playmaking ability who came in and lit it up, number 1 and 2 with very good all-purpose yardage ability probably the better comparisons than DeSean, who was pretty much strictly receiving. But DeSean is mentioned as he and Percy have similar game-breaking abilities whenever they touch the ball.

Under current scoring rules for PPR, Metcalf would have scored about 215 fantasy points his rookie year with 1030 total yds, 54 receptions, and 10 TDs....

If I'm smoking anything, it will be my victory "stogie" ala Red Auerbach after Percy (hopefully) provides me with that needed edge over my opponents to win me several titles this year. And I feel pretty good about that hope right about now based on my projections listed in the first response to this thread.......

I just believe there are more of these guys that fail than succeed, in general. Metcalf was a nice player. Hester hasnt really done anything yet, but you didnt mention him , someone else did. I guess Bush's injuries get in his way. And Jackson is a nice player, but I dont think even after his good rookie year that he's got "Best WR from His Class" written all over him. Id rather have the upside of a Crabtree, Fitz, CJ, AJ.....something Harvin will never be IMO. Not saying he doesnt have the ability to be Steve Smith of course, but guys like Harvin and Jackson are far more risky than the real stud WR prospects.

 

[mdog1967]

I dunno if Im ready to jump on the bandwagon of a guy who hasnt played a professional snap yet and has injury concerns. Like we've seen many times success in college doesnt mean success in the pros. Being productive in a spread offense with a QB the size of a linebacker doesnt always translate into the standard offenses of the NFL. Im not saying hes not going to make some plays in his rookie year, but hailing him as the second coming seems a bit premature.

Yep, I know it's hard to believe. But sometimes, the signals are a bit too obvious and the talent a bit too good, to NOT see it. In this game of fantasy football, the guys that see it ahead of it actually happening, tend to be quite successful.

There are a significant number of guys who make a huge imprint in fantasy, and the NFL, for the first time, each and every year. If we "wait and see", then how do you think you will acquire them. Trade an incredibly high price, that's your only avenue. Again, the guy who saw it ahead of time, wins as he has the treasured asset. But when you can simply draft the V-Jaxes, Pierres, Rodgers', DeSeans, Slatons, and Chris Johnsons of the world in '08, why not do it? Try getting them now from their owners.

Guys as talented as Percy are in no way tied to any system, like the spread offense, as mentioned. Playmakers of his ilk simply get on the field and make it happen. The skill-set is just too great, he'll easily learn the finer points of route-running as he already has the tools to excel at it.....super quick in and out of his breaks/cuts, excellent quickness off the snap and splendid change of direction. These cannot be taught, he is blessed. And when you have these, they translate. For those still on the fence, seems to me that you either missed the boat and failed to land him, or you have some other vested interest on the Vikes. My only advice at this point is to stop fighting it, and get on board......

I'll argue with the shark pool, I'll disagree with some folks some of the time and I'll take a lot of whats posted in here and use it to help me take a second look at my own evaluation of a player. I'll even post a"Take it to the bank prediction", knowing full well I am as Full of poop as the next guy. I'll take shots at folks and expect them to do the same to me. I never take it personal and I don't think they do either.With you on a number of threads have just come off plain arrogant.

What ever it is you think your insights are giving you that other people don't see is immature and a sorry example of ego boosting. Your not the only poster who thinks that Percy can be a versatile player, its been posted and its been posted and its been posted.

I'm sorry, but your a bit silly, entertaining as all heck but silly.

 

[The Man With No Name]

No idea or guess what Harvin will do this year. You Dynasty owners should just hope he stays off of mopeds unlike another 1st round Percy did in the training camp following a good rookie season. (Percy Snow)

Sidney Rice- 40/512/6

 

[kremenull]

I dunno if Im ready to jump on the bandwagon of a guy who hasnt played a professional snap yet and has injury concerns. Like we've seen many times success in college doesnt mean success in the pros. Being productive in a spread offense with a QB the size of a linebacker doesnt always translate into the standard offenses of the NFL. Im not saying hes not going to make some plays in his rookie year, but hailing him as the second coming seems a bit premature.

Yep, I know it's hard to believe. But sometimes, the signals are a bit too obvious and the talent a bit too good, to NOT see it. In this game of fantasy football, the guys that see it ahead of it actually happening, tend to be quite successful.

There are a significant number of guys who make a huge imprint in fantasy, and the NFL, for the first time, each and every year. If we "wait and see", then how do you think you will acquire them. Trade an incredibly high price, that's your only avenue. Again, the guy who saw it ahead of time, wins as he has the treasured asset. But when you can simply draft the V-Jaxes, Pierres, Rodgers', DeSeans, Slatons, and Chris Johnsons of the world in '08, why not do it? Try getting them now from their owners.

Guys as talented as Percy are in no way tied to any system, like the spread offense, as mentioned. Playmakers of his ilk simply get on the field and make it happen. The skill-set is just too great, he'll easily learn the finer points of route-running as he already has the tools to excel at it.....super quick in and out of his breaks/cuts, excellent quickness off the snap and splendid change of direction. These cannot be taught, he is blessed. And when you have these, they translate. For those still on the fence, seems to me that you either missed the boat and failed to land him, or you have some other vested interest on the Vikes. My only advice at this point is to stop fighting it, and get on board......

I'll argue with the shark pool, I'll disagree with some folks some of the time and I'll take a lot of whats posted in here and use it to help me take a second look at my own evaluation of a player. I'll even post a"Take it to the bank prediction", knowing full well I am as Full of poop as the next guy. I'll take shots at folks and expect them to do the same to me. I never take it personal and I don't think they do either.With you on a number of threads have just come off plain arrogant.

What ever it is you think your insights are giving you that other people don't see is immature and a sorry example of ego boosting. Your not the only poster who thinks that Percy can be a versatile player, its been posted and its been posted and its been posted.

I'm sorry, but your a bit silly, entertaining as all heck but silly.

Everyone has their own style....and everyone has their own opinions. I voice mine as if I know exactly what I'm talking about, and I make no apologies for being as convicted as I come across. Some may not like it, nor agree. I have no problems with either, all that matters to me is getting some of my opinions out there. I believe that this is one of the better forums to discuss football insights, not just fantasy, and I always challenge others to step up their game. Yep, I'm competitive even in this forum. When posters are espousing their opinions on topics, if I have a stronger one that goes against it or if I start a topic that I have a strong opinion on, then I state it so. I don't claim to know more than anyone else, but I also truly believe that I do have some of the keener insights on certain things regarding talent evaluation as well as fantasy acumen. Just the way it is, and like I always say, there is always a track record when you post. Part of my goal is to entertain, thank you for the (back-handed) compliment... Some of you guys take this stuff too serious, although, I am serious when I stand by an analysis or projection. But for the most part, try not to focus on the messenger, just the message. I've found that when I look at what someone is saying and not necessarily who is saying it or how they are saying it, I get so much more out of it, whether I agree wholeheartedly, somewhat, or altogether disagree.

 

[mdog1967]

I dunno if Im ready to jump on the bandwagon of a guy who hasnt played a professional snap yet and has injury concerns. Like we've seen many times success in college doesnt mean success in the pros. Being productive in a spread offense with a QB the size of a linebacker doesnt always translate into the standard offenses of the NFL. Im not saying hes not going to make some plays in his rookie year, but hailing him as the second coming seems a bit premature.

Yep, I know it's hard to believe. But sometimes, the signals are a bit too obvious and the talent a bit too good, to NOT see it. In this game of fantasy football, the guys that see it ahead of it actually happening, tend to be quite successful.

There are a significant number of guys who make a huge imprint in fantasy, and the NFL, for the first time, each and every year. If we "wait and see", then how do you think you will acquire them. Trade an incredibly high price, that's your only avenue. Again, the guy who saw it ahead of time, wins as he has the treasured asset. But when you can simply draft the V-Jaxes, Pierres, Rodgers', DeSeans, Slatons, and Chris Johnsons of the world in '08, why not do it? Try getting them now from their owners.

Guys as talented as Percy are in no way tied to any system, like the spread offense, as mentioned. Playmakers of his ilk simply get on the field and make it happen. The skill-set is just too great, he'll easily learn the finer points of route-running as he already has the tools to excel at it.....super quick in and out of his breaks/cuts, excellent quickness off the snap and splendid change of direction. These cannot be taught, he is blessed. And when you have these, they translate. For those still on the fence, seems to me that you either missed the boat and failed to land him, or you have some other vested interest on the Vikes. My only advice at this point is to stop fighting it, and get on board......

I'll argue with the shark pool, I'll disagree with some folks some of the time and I'll take a lot of whats posted in here and use it to help me take a second look at my own evaluation of a player. I'll even post a"Take it to the bank prediction", knowing full well I am as Full of poop as the next guy. I'll take shots at folks and expect them to do the same to me. I never take it personal and I don't think they do either.With you on a number of threads have just come off plain arrogant.

What ever it is you think your insights are giving you that other people don't see is immature and a sorry example of ego boosting. Your not the only poster who thinks that Percy can be a versatile player, its been posted and its been posted and its been posted.

I'm sorry, but your a bit silly, entertaining as all heck but silly.

Everyone has their own style....and everyone has their own opinions. I voice mine as if I know exactly what I'm talking about, and I make no apologies for being as convicted as I come across. Some may not like it, nor agree. I have no problems with either, all that matters to me is getting some of my opinions out there. I believe that this is one of the better forums to discuss football insights, not just fantasy, and I always challenge others to step up their game. Yep, I'm competitive even in this forum. When posters are espousing their opinions on topics, if I have a stronger one that goes against it or if I start a topic that I have a strong opinion on, then I state it so. I don't claim to know more than anyone else, but I also truly believe that I do have some of the keener insights on certain things regarding talent evaluation as well as fantasy acumen. Just the way it is, and like I always say, there is always a track record when you post. Part of my goal is to entertain, thank you for the (back-handed) compliment... Some of you guys take this stuff too serious, although, I am serious when I stand by an analysis or projection. But for the most part, try not to focus on the messenger, just the message. I've found that when I look at what someone is saying and not necessarily who is saying it or how they are saying it, I get so much more out of it, whether I agree wholeheartedly, somewhat, or altogether disagree.

 

[smackdaddies]

Sidney Rice, not that good

Percy, rookie

40 recpt, 450 yards, 4TD's

Could Percy do better? Sure. But I see no reason to think that that he will be the anomoly rather than the typical good rookie WR. Too many other recieving options

I don't see Sidney exceeding the above numbers

 

[brakeyawself]

Sidney Rice, not that good

Percy, rookie

40 recpt, 450 yards, 4TD's

Could Percy do better? Sure. But I see no reason to think that that he will be the anomoly rather than the typical good rookie WR. Too many other recieving options

I don't see Sidney exceeding the above numbers

How so? You are saying he's not talented? Or are you saying he just doesnt get the NFL? If you want to argue there arnt enough plays to go around that is one thing, but I dont think there is any evidence to say that Rice is not that good....

 

[smackdaddies]

Sidney Rice, not that good

Percy, rookie

40 recpt, 450 yards, 4TD's

Could Percy do better? Sure. But I see no reason to think that that he will be the anomoly rather than the typical good rookie WR. Too many other recieving options

I don't see Sidney exceeding the above numbers

How so? You are saying he's not talented? Or are you saying he just doesnt get the NFL? If you want to argue there arnt enough plays to go around that is one thing, but I dont think there is any evidence to say that Rice is not that good....

Try reading it again - I called him a "typical good rookie WR" Good rookie WR don't do better than those above numbers their first year. It is the anomoly that do - the rare occurence. I see no reason to think he will do better than almost all good to great WR do in thier first year.Can he do better? Sure. Will he do better? Very unlikely. It has nothing to do with his long term career. It has everything to do with being a rookie on a team that has alot of other options.

 

[Rockchild]

As talented as Harvin and Rice are, I'm just not confident in Childress' coaching ablility and commitment to get the ball in his best players hands. Oh, he may say the right things but I'm not convinced that he will actually do it on a continuous basis. This is a coach with arguably the best RB in the league and he doesn't, IMO, get creative enough in getting the ball in his hands often enough.

 

[brakeyawself]

Sidney Rice, not that good

Percy, rookie

40 recpt, 450 yards, 4TD's

Could Percy do better? Sure. But I see no reason to think that that he will be the anomoly rather than the typical good rookie WR. Too many other recieving options

I don't see Sidney exceeding the above numbers

How so? You are saying he's not talented? Or are you saying he just doesnt get the NFL? If you want to argue there arnt enough plays to go around that is one thing, but I dont think there is any evidence to say that Rice is not that good....

Try reading it again - I called him a "typical good rookie WR" Good rookie WR don't do better than those above numbers their first year. It is the anomoly that do - the rare occurence. I see no reason to think he will do better than almost all good to great WR do in thier first year.Can he do better? Sure. Will he do better? Very unlikely. It has nothing to do with his long term career. It has everything to do with being a rookie on a team that has alot of other options.

Try reading it again....... I bolded your statement about Rice, not Harvin. All my comments were directed at Rice.....Unless hes a rookie again?

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

As talented as Harvin and Rice are, I'm just not confident in Childress' coaching ablility and commitment to get the ball in his best players hands. Oh, he may say the right things but I'm not convinced that he will actually do it on a continuous basis. This is a coach with arguably the best RB in the league and he doesn't, IMO, get creative enough in getting the ball in his hands often enough.

Peterson led the league in touches last year. How much more often should he be getting the ball in his hands?

 

[Rockchild]

As talented as Harvin and Rice are, I'm just not confident in Childress' coaching ablility and commitment to get the ball in his best players hands. Oh, he may say the right things but I'm not convinced that he will actually do it on a continuous basis. This is a coach with arguably the best RB in the league and he doesn't, IMO, get creative enough in getting the ball in his hands often enough.

Peterson led the league in touches last year. How much more often should he be getting the ball in his hands?

I'd like to see him used a lot more in the passing game especially on screens. You disagree that he should get the ball more because he already had the most touches?

 

[brakeyawself]

As talented as Harvin and Rice are, I'm just not confident in Childress' coaching ablility and commitment to get the ball in his best players hands. Oh, he may say the right things but I'm not convinced that he will actually do it on a continuous basis. This is a coach with arguably the best RB in the league and he doesn't, IMO, get creative enough in getting the ball in his hands often enough.

Peterson led the league in touches last year. How much more often should he be getting the ball in his hands?

I'd like to see him used a lot more in the passing game especially on screens. You disagree that he should get the ball more because he already had the most touches?

I dont know if it matters how good Peterson is. Its generally better for a team, and the longevity of a season, to spread the ball around. Provided of course you have good options to do so. Any MIN offensive player breaking out and getting more touches is probably in the long run, better for AP.

 

[smackdaddies]

Sidney Rice, not that good

Percy, rookie

40 recpt, 450 yards, 4TD's

Could Percy do better? Sure. But I see no reason to think that that he will be the anomoly rather than the typical good rookie WR. Too many other recieving options

I don't see Sidney exceeding the above numbers

How so? You are saying he's not talented? Or are you saying he just doesnt get the NFL? If you want to argue there arnt enough plays to go around that is one thing, but I dont think there is any evidence to say that Rice is not that good....

Try reading it again - I called him a "typical good rookie WR" Good rookie WR don't do better than those above numbers their first year. It is the anomoly that do - the rare occurence. I see no reason to think he will do better than almost all good to great WR do in thier first year.Can he do better? Sure. Will he do better? Very unlikely. It has nothing to do with his long term career. It has everything to do with being a rookie on a team that has alot of other options.

Try reading it again....... I bolded your statement about Rice, not Harvin. All my comments were directed at Rice.....Unless hes a rookie again?

My Bad - too many replies spent arguing with people about why there rookie WR is not going to be the second coming his first year. I assumed, didn't read. As to Rice, I just don't see him as a #1 or #2 wr. Barely a #3 WR. On Minn he is not even the 4th best - Berrian, Taylor, their TE, Wade, perhaps AP, then either rice or percy. Assuming he stays healthy.

Any team that has the duo of AP and Chester (who combo'd for over 60 recpts last year on top of their rushes) is going to have limited receptions available to at best average recievers.

 

[brakeyawself]

Sidney Rice, not that good

Percy, rookie

40 recpt, 450 yards, 4TD's

Could Percy do better? Sure. But I see no reason to think that that he will be the anomoly rather than the typical good rookie WR. Too many other recieving options

I don't see Sidney exceeding the above numbers

How so? You are saying he's not talented? Or are you saying he just doesnt get the NFL? If you want to argue there arnt enough plays to go around that is one thing, but I dont think there is any evidence to say that Rice is not that good....

Try reading it again - I called him a "typical good rookie WR" Good rookie WR don't do better than those above numbers their first year. It is the anomoly that do - the rare occurence. I see no reason to think he will do better than almost all good to great WR do in thier first year.Can he do better? Sure. Will he do better? Very unlikely. It has nothing to do with his long term career. It has everything to do with being a rookie on a team that has alot of other options.

Try reading it again....... I bolded your statement about Rice, not Harvin. All my comments were directed at Rice.....Unless hes a rookie again?

My Bad - too many replies spent arguing with people about why there rookie WR is not going to be the second coming his first year. I assumed, didn't read. As to Rice, I just don't see him as a #1 or #2 wr. Barely a #3 WR. On Minn he is not even the 4th best - Berrian, Taylor, their TE, Wade, perhaps AP, then either rice or percy. Assuming he stays healthy.

Any team that has the duo of AP and Chester (who combo'd for over 60 recpts last year on top of their rushes) is going to have limited receptions available to at best average recievers.

I dont disagree about the lack of touches going his way. And I can see your point about limited options. But honestly, Ive liked Rice's skills better than a guy like Berrian and Shiancoe, and have long liked his skills TO be a NFL WR more than guys like Bowe or Ginn. He's takeing long to mature, there is no doubt. But given his talent, he's really the only one holding himself back from being a top WR. If he could muster the fortitude. If he did, Im sure Minny would find him the ball. The closest comparison I can make situationally is VJax from his Rookie year up until last year, when he broke out. Except I think Rice is more talented than VJax. Just hopeing his head and maturity are in the right place.

 

[TheBradyBunch]

Have we come to any early conclusions about the Sidney Rice part of this equation? I need to add somebody this week and while I like Rice's upside, he's probably on the chopping block for me in order to make a pickup. I realize that none of you care about my team, but I was hoping to bring this old topic up for some fresh discussion. Anyone still see any fantasy promise with Rice or will this be just another bleh year production wise?

 

[-jb-]

Have we come to any early conclusions about the Sidney Rice part of this equation? I need to add somebody this week and while I like Rice's upside, he's probably on the chopping block for me in order to make a pickup. I realize that none of you care about my team, but I was hoping to bring this old topic up for some fresh discussion. Anyone still see any fantasy promise with Rice or will this be just another bleh year production wise?

A little soon to tell, I think. Peterson won't rush for 180 every week, so Favre will usually need to throw for more than 110. This week may be an anamole in the other direction with the Lions being so weak. Probably won't have a good feel for it until close to mid-season.