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possible expansion 10 team to 12 team (1 Viewer)

BroncoFreak_2K3

sucker for Orange
Looking for opinions from leagues that have expanded from 10 to 12 teams and have been in existence for a good time for some perspective. In our league right now, there is a big discussion and somewhat of a stalemate between teams, for and against.

We have been in existence for 11 years. We currently keep 2 players from the previous year that were drafted in the fourth round or later. Total 17 roster spots, no TEs (WRs and TEs combined). The two new teams will be able to select one keeper from the Keeper pool to begi the season. the will also draft at the end of the first round.

Arguments against expansion are mainly centered on the fact that the talent pool will be severally diminished and ther will be a greater disparity between the "haves" and "have nots". Also, guys in our league really like to use the Free Agent system throughout the year to build their team, and it appears that going 204 players deep would relegate available good free agents to almost nill. Trades would most certainly be bumped up in importance in acquiring solid players rather than the free agent system. Many guys just don't trade...

What are the benefits and costs of bumping up to 12 from 10 from those who have done it? Appreciate your replies...

TIA

 
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Sopranos

Footballguy
12 team leagues are fine. 10 teamers or too small IMO. talent does not thin untill you hit 14-16 team leagues...Im in a 32 team league and just having a 3rd WR is huge :confused:

 

BassNBrew

IBL Representative
FA depth won't be a problem going to 12 teams at only 17 deep. Actually your FA pool should almost remain unchanged as most teams should be drafting 2 QBs rather then just one in a ten team league.

Not trying to be an ###, but if you gave me the first waive pick each week, I could draft a 10th team all in the 18th round from the leftovers and be competitive in your league.

 

BroncoFreak_2K3

sucker for Orange
FA depth won't be a problem going to 12 teams at only 17 deep. Actually your FA pool should almost remain unchanged as most teams should be drafting 2 QBs rather then just one in a ten team league.

Not trying to be an ###, but if you gave me the first waive pick each week, I could draft a 10th team all in the 18th round from the leftovers and be competitive in your league.
Actually, most all teams draft 2 QBs in the league. but usually only 1 kicker and 1 Defense. The rest come in the form of RBs and RECs. You have to start 1 QB, 1-2 RB, 3-4 RECs (i.e., 1 RB and 4 RECs or 2 RBs and 3 RECs), 1 Kicker and 1 Def.
 

BassNBrew

IBL Representative
FA depth won't be a problem going to 12 teams at only 17 deep.  Actually your FA pool should almost remain unchanged as most teams should be drafting 2 QBs rather then just one in a ten team league.

Not trying to be an ###, but if you gave me the first waive pick each week, I could draft a 10th team all in the 18th round from the leftovers and be competitive in your league.
Actually, most all teams draft 2 QBs in the league. but usually only 1 kicker and 1 Defense. The rest come in the form of RBs and RECs. You have to start 1 QB, 1-2 RB, 3-4 RECs (i.e., 1 RB and 4 RECs or 2 RBs and 3 RECs), 1 Kicker and 1 Def.
Most team's shouldn't be drafting 2 QBs with only 10 tens drafting. There's not a significant difference between QB 15 and 25. About 2 pts on a ppg basis.
 

fsufan

Footballguy
I play in two 10 teams leagues, one 12-team league and two 14-team leagues. I do not think there are much of a difference in the 10 and 12 team leagues. But there is a difference in the talent level per team in the 14-team leagues. They all are different if there own why, that is why I like playing in each of them.

 

crimsonrebel

Footballguy
the larger the # of teams in a league, the more skill is involved. ine a 10 team league, everyone has a good solid team. When you have 12, 14, or 16 players, you have to make smarter drafting decisions, and value based drafting becomes more important. So what if the talent pool thins? Everyone is in the same boat.

 

Nemesis

Footballguy
Actually, most all teams draft 2 QBs in the league. but usually only 1 kicker and 1 Defense. The rest come in the form of RBs and RECs. You have to start 1 QB, 1-2 RB, 3-4 RECs (i.e., 1 RB and 4 RECs or 2 RBs and 3 RECs), 1 Kicker and 1 Def.
Seems pretty simple. Just drop the roster limit from 17 to 16. That will lessen the blow of adding another 2 teams.17 roster reqmt x 10 teams = 170 players selected

16 roster reqmt x 12 teams = 192 players selected

Difference of 22 players

Under the new system, teams will continue to only keep 1 k and 1 def on their roster, but that just means that teams can't load up on as many RBs and WRs as they have in the past. It will also make the draft more important/exciting as well as increase trades in your league.

 

nygiants56

Footballguy
Looking for opinions from leagues that have expanded from 10 to 12 teams and have been in existence for a good time for some perspective.  In our league right now, there is a big discussion and somewhat of a stalemate between teams, for and against.

We have been in existence for 11 years.  We currently keep 2 players from the previous year that were drafted in the fourth round or later.  Total 17 roster spots, no TEs (WRs and TEs combined).  The two new teams will be able to select one keeper from the Keeper pool to begi the season.  the will also draft at the end of the first round.

Arguments against expansion are mainly centered on the fact that the talent pool will be severally diminished and ther will be a greater disparity between the "haves" and "have nots".  Also, guys in our league really like to use the Free Agent system throughout the year to build their team, and it appears that going 204 players deep would relegate available good free agents to almost nill.  Trades would most certainly be bumped up in importance in acquiring solid players rather than the free agent system.  Many guys just don't trade...

What are the benefits and costs of bumping up to 12 from 10 from those who have done it?  Appreciate your replies...

TIA
been in a 12 team league for 15 years now..its tough finding #4 RB's...its a keeper league, we keep up to 9 players..what we do is to say you can't keep more than 3 rbs/wr ( draft total of 4 of each) and can't keep more than 2 QB's ( draft 3 each)..

this prevents people from stockpiling posistions..wr's are dime a dozen though..

a 12 team league puts a premium on RB's no doubt...if it's $$ you're worried ( trying to increase prizes) , stay at ten and charge people $50 per player over a certain set limit..in another keeper league, we allow you to keep 5 players for free..you can then add on another 3, at $50 each...

so , if all ten teams keep 8 players, thats $1,500 to the pot, just from the keepers, and not including the entrance fee, waivers,trades, etc....

so you could do something like that and stay at ten and still have a rich , deep talent pool AND a much bigger pot..

if the main reason to expand is to build the pot, i'd go with this route instead :thumbup:

 
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GregR_2

Footballguy
The biggest place that adding more teams hits you is at backup running back. Since your league allows 1 RB starting lineups, it shouldn't really be an issue.

As others have said, the smaller the league is the less that you need skill to be able to be competitive in it. I have 2 leagues that started as 10 team redraft for a few years, then went to 12 team keep 4. The owners who complained the most about going to 12 teams were the ones who chose to do the least preparation for the draft. There are still significant impact players on waivers each season as there are always a few breakout guys you didn't expect, but there aren't enough of them you can rely on that instead of being prepared for your draft.

 

AhrnCityPahnder

Yinz-o-riffic
the larger the # of teams in a league, the more skill is involved. ine a 10 team league, everyone has a good solid team. When you have 12, 14, or 16 players, you have to make smarter drafting decisions, and value based drafting becomes more important. So what if the talent pool thins? Everyone is in the same boat.
No, only if you stick with the same lineup requirements across the board. You can make smaller league just as competitive, so that they require as much skill as a 12 or 16 team league by requiring more staters than you would for a larger league.
 
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notoriousbob

Footballguy
We just bumped up from 10 to 12 last year and split into 2 divisions. Talent pool thins a little, but not all that much. Draft becomes much more important. As far as the haves and have-nots comment, coming into the last week of the season we had one team locked for the playoffs, and 6-7 other teams fighting for the last 3 spots. A very competitive league.

I would think about how you want to start the new teams out. If I read you right, they get to take someone's keeper?? So they could come and take LJ from someone?? That would suck. They shouldn't be able to take someone's franchise player.

 

BroncoFreak_2K3

sucker for Orange
We just bumped up from 10 to 12 last year and split into 2 divisions.  Talent pool thins a little, but not all that much.  Draft becomes much more important.  As far as the haves and have-nots comment, coming into the last week of the season we had one team locked for the playoffs, and 6-7 other teams fighting for the last 3 spots.  A very competitive league.

I would think about how you want to start the new teams out.  If I read you right, they get to take someone's keeper??  So they could come and take LJ from someone??  That would suck.  They shouldn't be able to take someone's franchise player.
No...Actually, LJ will be kept this year for a fifth round pick by an owner, not bad value eh? Once all returnng teams select their keeper players (2 players, 1 per position, anyone drafted last year beginning in the fourth round (a fourth round keeper will cost you a third round pick this year), the two new guy will be able to pick up 1 guy from the remaining eligible list of keepers. Gives them a little help coming in.Were looking at dropping the roster sizes now to 14 spots total and keeping the existing starting requirements. We're essentially adding two teams but keeping about the same number of roster spots league-wide. This should keep the FA pool stocked with good prospects, will mean trading becomes more active and means, you better be on your A-game come draft day. We also have no IR, so it'll also mean that teams will have to really beging to make those hard decisions to keep someone on their rosters for the entire year (like a Darryl Jackson last year).

 
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BroncoFreak_2K3

sucker for Orange
Actually, most all teams draft 2 QBs in the league. but usually only 1 kicker and 1 Defense.  The rest come in the form of RBs and RECs. You have to start 1 QB, 1-2 RB, 3-4 RECs (i.e., 1 RB and 4 RECs or 2 RBs and 3 RECs), 1 Kicker and 1 Def.
Seems pretty simple. Just drop the roster limit from 17 to 16. That will lessen the blow of adding another 2 teams.17 roster reqmt x 10 teams = 170 players selected

16 roster reqmt x 12 teams = 192 players selected

Difference of 22 players

Under the new system, teams will continue to only keep 1 k and 1 def on their roster, but that just means that teams can't load up on as many RBs and WRs as they have in the past. It will also make the draft more important/exciting as well as increase trades in your league.
Yes..We're thinking of going in the direction of 14 roster reqmt x 12 teams = 168 players. Subjecting out potentially 2 keepers for the 10 returning franchises and 1 keeper for the 2 new teams from the remaining free agent pool will make a nice tight, competitve league I think.
 

GregR_2

Footballguy
Were looking at dropping the roster sizes now to 14 spots total and keeping the existing starting requirements. We're essentially adding two teams but keeping about the same number of roster spots league-wide. This should keep the FA pool stocked with good prospects, will mean trading becomes more active and means, you better be on your A-game come draft day. We also have no IR, so it'll also mean that teams will have to really beging to make those hard decisions to keep someone on their rosters for the entire year (like a Darryl Jackson last year).
Let me preface this by saying do what will make your league the happiest. But since you asked for feedback, I would despise a league that had such tiny rosters. I wouldn't even bother playing in it. 6 bench spots, to cover an 8 player starting lineup made up of 5 different positions?Just having a single backup for QB, RB and WR takes up half of your bench. You've made it virtually impossible to do valid strategies like QBBC or Defense-by-committee. You've removed from the game the skill of trying to predict sleepers, since no one has room to carry anything other than actual backups.

I'd recommend not cutting your roster size at all. Or at least if you're going to, just reduce it by one player. I really think your league is over-reacting as to how different it is going to feel with 12 teams and keeping the original set up.

 

BroncoFreak_2K3

sucker for Orange
Were looking at dropping the roster sizes now to 14 spots total and keeping the existing starting requirements.  We're essentially adding two teams but keeping about the same number of roster spots league-wide.  This should keep the FA pool stocked with good prospects, will mean trading becomes more active and means, you better be on your A-game come draft day.  We also have no IR, so it'll also mean that teams will have to really beging to make those hard decisions to keep someone on their rosters for the entire year (like a Darryl Jackson last year).
Let me preface this by saying do what will make your league the happiest. But since you asked for feedback, I would despise a league that had such tiny rosters. I wouldn't even bother playing in it. 6 bench spots, to cover an 8 player starting lineup made up of 5 different positions?Just having a single backup for QB, RB and WR takes up half of your bench. You've made it virtually impossible to do valid strategies like QBBC or Defense-by-committee. You've removed from the game the skill of trying to predict sleepers, since no one has room to carry anything other than actual backups.

I'd recommend not cutting your roster size at all. Or at least if you're going to, just reduce it by one player. I really think your league is over-reacting as to how different it is going to feel with 12 teams and keeping the original set up.
Yea...in thinking through your take, it does appear that going to 14 would hamper teams quite a bit. We're still going through discussions so I'll throw the suggestion back out there to reconsider either leaving rosters at 17 or only going down to 16 or 15. I think everyone is afraid of not having a well-stocked free agent pool, it's not my concern personally though. Thanks for the feedback
 
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