PPR (1 Viewer)

[GSNVulture]

(PPR) is a fad that guppies think works

PPR for more serious FF players thats an elitist statement and a dumb one.

I was going to add something witty, but just quoting you is funny enough. For those who took him seriously enough to even reply, good posts. Some good explanations given.

Wow you sure have alot to add to the conversation besides treating me with disdain. Apparently elitist was the correct word because damn that is exacly what you look like now.I suppose I shoulda waived the sarcasm flag higher for the title of my thread its meant to be very very specific statement asking is PPR good or not because I dont see it but in no way is meant to be an insult to anyone. Shoot the guppy word was used kinda as a statement that as a first time poster maybe I m the stupid one. It was meant to be fun.

 

[Marek]

Wow you sure have alot to add to the conversation besides treating me with disdain. Apparently elitist was the correct word because damn that is exacly what you look like now.

While I understand your fury at anyone daring to criticise you while you lay out your own left and right, it might do you well to realize I wasn't the author of the post you replied to. Not that coherence matters to you, but FYI, anyhow. I somewhat agree with you in that PPR is sometimes questionable. Unfortunately, you come off looking like an idiot with half your replies.

 

[GSNVulture]

Wow you sure have alot to add to the conversation besides treating me with disdain. Apparently elitist was the correct word because damn that is exacly what you look like now.

While I understand your fury at anyone daring to criticise you while you lay out your own left and right, it might do you well to realize I wasn't the author of the post you replied to. Not that coherence matters to you, but FYI, anyhow. I somewhat agree with you in that PPR is sometimes questionable. Unfortunately, you come off looking like an idiot with half your replies.

I said in my first post what do I know and have been trying to have good discussion, shoot I even appologized to another poster on this thread for not making myself clear and putting out the wrong vibe. At least my only posts to the thread arent ones that is meant as a one line insults. So untill you have something to add to the conversation GO AWAY TROLL!

 

[Patoons]

GO back to my previous break down of numbers. Team A gives Johnson worth 18 a game his replacement is worth 15 a gameTeam A receives Tiki who is worth 20 a game replacing a rb worth 14 a gameTeam A gains on average 3 points a gameTeam B receives Johnson worth 18 a game replacing a wr worth 8 a gameTeam B gives Tike worth 20 a game his replacement is worth 12 a gameTeam B gains on average 2 points a gameBoth teams win for the same reason upgrade was worth more than what they gave up. Thats why their value could be similar. Is Tiki suppose to be worth more because he is a 20 point a game player. Not neccessarily. But this is the problem people have with trades Tiki is worth more total points than Chad so they scream up and down thinking Team A got a steal.

Not everyone does a trade purely based on the upgrade. If a player is worth more on the market, they will try and upgrade elsewhere. From a straight value standpoint/ppg standpoint:Based on statsPR/PPGTiki: 20 CJ: 19Non-PPR/PPGTiki: 19CJ: 13Quite the difference, which is why I don't think anyone would make that deal.1 ppg in PPR vs. 6 ppg in Non-PPR

 

[Marek]

At least my only posts to the thread arent ones that is meant as a one line insults. So untill you have something to add to the conversation GO AWAY TROLL!

Yes, you add so much when replying to insightful posts with comments like "put your rose colored glasses on and feel superiour in your belief that your right". Obviously they are the "elitists"! More than anything, your disrespect for those who bother to take the time to give you reasonable answers is what is annoying. Anyhow, sorry for illustrating how you are perceived by others. Peace.

 

[GSNVulture]

GO back to my previous break down of numbers. Team A gives Johnson worth 18 a game his replacement is worth 15 a gameTeam A receives Tiki who is worth 20 a game replacing a rb worth 14 a gameTeam A gains on average 3 points a gameTeam B receives Johnson worth 18 a game replacing a wr worth 8 a gameTeam B gives Tike worth 20 a game his replacement is worth 12 a gameTeam B gains on average 2 points a gameBoth teams win for the same reason upgrade was worth more than what they gave up. Thats why their value could be similar. Is Tiki suppose to be worth more because he is a 20 point a game player. Not neccessarily. But this is the problem people have with trades Tiki is worth more total points than Chad so they scream up and down thinking Team A got a steal.

Not everyone does a trade purely based on the upgrade. If a player is worth more on the market, they will try and upgrade elsewhere. From a straight value standpoint/ppg standpoint:Based on statsPR/PPGTiki: 20 CJ: 19Non-PPR/PPGTiki: 19CJ: 13Quite the difference, which is why I don't think anyone would make that deal.1 ppg in PPR vs. 6 ppg in Non-PPR

IF your not trading to upgrade your team I fail to see what the point in the trade is. Player A is expendible only if Player B helps my team more.Most of the time no one is going to make that trade is probably true. But your leaving out the information I put in Who are their replacements that matters alot.have to see the players involved but it still comes down to my example even if CJ is worth 13 points a game doesnt matter if PPR is used or notCJ + Replacement > Old player + TIki if this holds true why not trade TIKI its well worth it

 

[GSNVulture]

At least my only posts to the thread arent ones that is meant as a one line insults. So untill you have something to add to the conversation GO AWAY TROLL!

Yes, you add so much when replying to insightful posts with comments like "put your rose colored glasses on and feel superiour in your belief that your right". Obviously they are the "elitists"! More than anything, your disrespect for those who bother to take the time to give you reasonable answers is what is annoying. Anyhow, sorry for illustrating how you are perceived by others. Peace.

Rose colored glasses was just another way of saying look at it from all angles while saying half my posts are idiotic is insulting flat out. And specifically inisulting when you dont back up your opinion with any substance.difference is I m actually adding to this or trying to while your being insulting and completely avoiding the topic to try and smear me. I have no problems with you saying what I say is dumb as long as you back it up because then its not an insult but actual conversation. Disagreement is fine. What you are doing is being a troll

 

[Demons]

The simple reply here is that this is a game. Making the game reflect reality to an extent enhances the experience for many. But the game aspect of it is that it is more fun with PPR than without for many folks. Do you like Monopoly with all the fines and assessments going on Free Parking, or not? Do you like to play with the Stock Market option? The marketplace dictates the evolution of the game. There is no right or wrong here. There is simply more or less fun for folks.

Personally, I would never play in a TD only league. It was used when the internet was minimal/non-existent and there was no online stats reporting. I only became heavily involved in fantasy football when online management sites became prevalent. I will also never play again in bewildering bonus point systems, since I caught a Commish manipulating the bonuses on a weekly basis to enhance his scores. Straightforward and understandable scoring is the only way I like to proceed. That is just my preference.

I like PPR for a multitude of reasons. First, it does tend to balance the value of players between the RB's and WR's. Second, it expands the pool of decent players by adding value to possession receivers and third-down backs. I'm not arguing that it is a perfect system, but it seems to me to have worked better than other options. It is straightforward and understandable. I can calculate in my head the points my players are getting. This is somewhat like democracy, it isn't perfect but it seems to work better than other options.

 

[GSNVulture]

The simple reply here is that this is a game. Making the game reflect reality to an extent enhances the experience for many. But the game aspect of it is that it is more fun with PPR than without for many folks. Do you like Monopoly with all the fines and assessments going on Free Parking, or not? Do you like to play with the Stock Market option? The marketplace dictates the evolution of the game. There is no right or wrong here. There is simply more or less fun for folks. Personally, I would never play in a TD only league. It was used when the internet was minimal/non-existent and there was no online stats reporting. I only became heavily involved in fantasy football when online management sites became prevalent. I will also never play again in bewildering bonus point systems, since I caught a Commish manipulating the bonuses on a weekly basis to enhance his scores. Straightforward and understandable scoring is the only way I like to proceed. That is just my preference.I like PPR for a multitude of reasons. First, it does tend to balance the value of players between the RB's and WR's. Second, it expands the pool of decent players by adding value to possession receivers and third-down backs. I'm not arguing that it is a perfect system, but it seems to me to have worked better than other options. It is straightforward and understandable. I can calculate in my head the points my players are getting. This is somewhat like democracy, it isn't perfect but it seems to work better than other options.

That I can agree with do what you like and I guess I shoulda got this point accross in the first place. I just question why its becoming increasingly popular I wonder if people actually understand how it affects scoring or positional value. Or if they just assume. I dont know.

 

[Sigfawn]

I normally don't post on forums but this topic has been bugging me alot lately. Why is PPR becoming popular?I dont understand how people believe PPR increases the value of WR over RB. Isnt value determined by positional relation. Gates is more valuable than alot of players not because he scores more than runningbacks but because he seperates himself at his position. PPR doesnt create that big of a seperation positionally I m sure it sets the bar slightly higher in mid tiers but isnt that still not solving the problem.Why should a reception dump off pass for 0 or let along negative yards be worth around a point? How the heck do you justify this play as a positive in any way shape or form and give credit/points to it? Shoot the thrown away pass to avoid sack and interception for 0 yards that almost no scoring system gives credit for is worth a heck of alot more than 0 yard or -2 yard dumpoff pass. which is worth .8 to 1 point?!?! HOW IS A WORTHLESS PLAY WORTH ANYTHING?It over values specialty players. Players like Bush in PPR are extremely overvalued. This is not a knock on him but shouldn't yards gained and touchdowns be more important than giving credit for receptions. When we look at players isnt yards per recep/carry a better way to determine worth over number of carries/receptions? I dont care if E George ran 400 times at 2.8 yards a carry for 1120 the guy (lets say (R Bush) who had 200 carries at 5.6 yards a carry for 1120 is a much better back!!! this holds true upto apoint players still need opportunity and we need a large enough data size to determine if enough variables have been overcome and met. 1 carry for 89 yards doesnt make you the best back. So why do receptions hold this value of the more the better. I DONT CARE ABOUT QUANTITY OVER QUALITY. Why are scoring systems trying to reward it?Explain to me why PPR isnt a fad that in 10 years will be looked upon like Distance Scoring? how are they any different? I hope I m wrong but I have a feeling its just a popularity contest right now and people are thinking its cool over effective scoring.But what the heck do I know. I m not saying its not fun and I m not saying dont use it but rather I dont understand why.

PPR does increase the value of WRs compared to RBs. As someone already pointed out. 4 WRs in top 30, vs 9 WRs with PPR. That means instead of being forced to draft rb/rb, you can get away with rb/wr because a top 5 WR will match a top RB2. Of course WR value goes up, we're adding 60-70-80-90 points to the top 25 WRs. Value isn't just Gates vs the rest of the TEs. That's part of it. But you win based on how many points you get each week. In PPR, depending on draft slot, you're better off taking a WR then a 2nd RB. In non-PPR, you almost always have to go rb/rb. Lets say we added 50 points per catch to FBG scoring. Still don't think WRs value goes up? Hey it's RB vs RB, TE vs TE right? Nah. RBs generally put up more FF points at the top. If WRs did, we'd draft WRs earlier. Why get all worked up over a 0 yard catch? It rarely happens. If you're talking PERFORMANCE scoring. Which is moving away from TD heavy scoring. TDs go up and down each year. In non-ppr, Mason was pretty worthless last year. 86 catches, 1000 yards, 3 tds. Those TD numbers pretty much killed his value. You have RBs getting 3 tds in a game. Like TD heavy leagues, non-ppr adds far more luck into FF. Whoever gets the most TDs wins. Yardage/catches are devalued. In PPR, catches (which also means yardage) get a boost, and the value of TDs drop again. Because guys like Mason are great to have. Solid, lots of catches, TDs come and go.You think Mason didn't mean a lot to the Ravens? Sure he had a few catches of 0 yards, but more often then not his catches are huge. But this gets away from the main point. FF is fun. PPR boosts WRs/middle of the road WRs, weakens RBs, weakens QBs a lot, boosts TEs. That makes it more interesting. More strategies. More players putting up solid productions. Guys like Mason/Coles, instantly become far more valuable. The easiest way to explain it, is go draft in a PPR league. Rounds 4-8 are far different. Instead of looking for RB fliers, people are grabbing WRs. And in flex leagues, with PPR far more people start WRs then non-ppr. A non-ppr flex league is the worst. I've seen people draft 5 straight rbs. Don't get hung up on the 1 catch 0 yards stuff. FF is about fun. Honestly the scoring system doesn't even matter. Get a group of friends, get some beer, layout the rules, draft a team. PPR, no PPR. Flex, no flex. Who really cares. It's about dominating your friends, and making football a little more interesting on sundays. I've never understood how rules/scoring tweaks ruin anything. So only texas hold'em is fun? Omaha? That's not real poker! Hi low? How unrealistic! In the end, its just gambling, enjoy it.

 

[JuniorNB]

I didn't read the entire thread, because I'm short on time. I'm sure this has been touched upon already.

If your league gives ppr to running backs, it should also give points per carry.

If a guy is a great receiver out of the backfield, he'll get plenty of points for the yardage he gains receiving. It takes zero skill to catch a flair pass behind the line of scrimmage.

PPR leagues make heroes out of guys like Dominick Davis. Hell, in a PPR league, Reggie Bush is actually making an impact instead of being considered a disapointment.

 

[Marek]

difference is I m actually adding to this

And I'm just congratulating those who truly did contribute in light of your ######ation. They're the ones who make this a worthwhile board while tolerating people like you (and me). Anyhow, I realize the criticism falls on painfully deaf ears, so carry on, Mr. Kettle. Feel free to continue your outrage at being corrected for another few pages.

 

[GSNVulture]

difference is I m actually adding to this

And I'm just congratulating those who truly did contribute in light of your ######ation. They're the ones who make this a worthwhile board while tolerating people like you (and me). Anyhow, I realize the criticism falls on painfully deaf ears, so carry on, Mr. Kettle. Feel free to continue your outrage at being corrected for another few pages.

Thanks you proved to me once again why I wont come back to this site to participate. Since I dont contribute in any meaningful way and am not wanted is painfully clear. In the infamous words of Cartman SCREW YOU GUYS I M GOING HOME. Football guys will never see my money ever because of people like you

 

[dawgtrails]

I think PPR came as a result of people having Marvin Harrison and seeing 10 Rec/100 yds/0 TD being worth less than Stacy Macks 1 rush/1 yard/1 TD line.I like PPR because it benefits my style of drafting preparation. I do a ton of research before my draft and I love having an advantage over some guy that shows up with the April Issue of some Fantasy Football mag. I check who gets "targeted" and who doesn't. It gives me an advantage over those that don't.I play in a non-ppr league, and it's fun because it's an IDP league. Again, the IDP (as well as auction) format gives me an extra dimension to exploit research-wise.PPR is probably for more serious FF players. The traditional non-PPR league where it's just a matter of hoping your top 3 RB's stay healthy is going to be popular forever due to the "bring a case of beer and an outdated football magazine to the draft" crowd. Let's face it, when you don't have to worry about receptions, coming up with a top 20 ranking of runningbacks to draft is pretty easy.PPR is here to stay because it benefits those that do research. That is also why it will never be more popular than non-ppr. There are far more casual players than there are serious players.The more complex the scoring system is, the more it benefits those that look beyond the boxscore.

Harrision 10 points Mack 6 in most performance leagues. I think your logic is somehow wrong.

Most leagues are 1pt per 20 yards, so his 5 points was less than Mack's 6

I think this is incorrect.Most leagues are 1 pt per 10 yards.And some even give a bonus for 100 yds.So, Harrison would outscore Mack.However, your larger point stands...Harrison should outscore Mack by a larger margin than 4 pts.Reminds me of the good ole Mike Alstott days!!

 

[Christo]

I dont understand how people believe PPR increases the value of WR over RB.

I think this is the biggest misconception about PPR. The biggest impact with PPR is that lower tier RBs and WRs become viable starters, especially in flex leagues. I also think that PPR allows teams that lose a star player to keep competing because it gives 3rd down RBs and lower level WRs more value.

 

[Patoons]

I dont understand how people believe PPR increases the value of WR over RB.

I think this is the biggest misconception about PPR. The biggest impact with PPR is that lower tier RBs and WRs become viable starters, especially in flex leagues. I also think that PPR allows teams that lose a star player to keep competing because it gives 3rd down RBs and lower level WRs more value.

I don't believe that it makes WR's MORE valuable, but that it shrinks the gap between RB's and WR's. Taking a quick look at a season's FF rankings shows that clearly.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

What I don't understand is why people don't understand PPR. It's a normal extension of performance-based scoring. It provides a reward for a guy being targeted and, presumably, a bigger part of the offense.you ask how is a worthless play worth anything? We reward garbage-time stats, don't we? A 17-yard carry on 3rd-and-29 is worthless-- the defense will gladly give it up. But we count it, and can thrive on it. The only plays that are "worth anything" are scoring plays, and few leagues are TD-only. Why should a guy who went "Jerricho Cotchery" on a pass play (and had just that one catch) get as many points as a receiver who was targeted all day long and was a huge part of the gameplan? Well, there's no reason why...or why not. Arguments can be made on both sides, so I don't see the big deal. If you have performance-based scoring, it doesn't really matter what performances you choose to reward. Just enjoy it.

Garbage time stats at least are a positive in one form or another. That is not even remotely the same thing but put your rose colored glasses on and feel superiour in your belief that your right. A play that produces negative yards has absolutely no positives but you still feel justified in it. By the way how many Prevention Defences in garbage time actually lost games so I guess those 17 yards that you percieved worthless might actually mean something. Especially if they get 12 on 4th down but your to narrow minded to think that.

Sorry, I don't see any logic in your rebuttal. Seventeen yards on 3rd-and-29 is worthless to everyone except fantasy players. Defenses in garbage time don't lose games...because it's garbage time. Unless it's the Bills and Oilters in the playoffs-- the game is over. I'm not talking about a prevent defense; garbage time is different. Stats are being complied just to get stats; the game is out of hand. If we reward that, why not reward receptions? Neither of them actually affect the game, but we enjoy it.

 

[Routilla]

I believe ppr was created for the larger leagues, 12-16 teamers to balance the value away from RBs. In a 10 teamer like mine it is not needed and hence we don't nor have we ever used it. If I were in a larger league I would want ppr as most people do. FWIW.

 

[GSNVulture]

What I don't understand is why people don't understand PPR. It's a normal extension of performance-based scoring. It provides a reward for a guy being targeted and, presumably, a bigger part of the offense.you ask how is a worthless play worth anything? We reward garbage-time stats, don't we? A 17-yard carry on 3rd-and-29 is worthless-- the defense will gladly give it up. But we count it, and can thrive on it. The only plays that are "worth anything" are scoring plays, and few leagues are TD-only. Why should a guy who went "Jerricho Cotchery" on a pass play (and had just that one catch) get as many points as a receiver who was targeted all day long and was a huge part of the gameplan? Well, there's no reason why...or why not. Arguments can be made on both sides, so I don't see the big deal. If you have performance-based scoring, it doesn't really matter what performances you choose to reward. Just enjoy it.

Garbage time stats at least are a positive in one form or another. That is not even remotely the same thing but put your rose colored glasses on and feel superiour in your belief that your right. A play that produces negative yards has absolutely no positives but you still feel justified in it. By the way how many Prevention Defences in garbage time actually lost games so I guess those 17 yards that you percieved worthless might actually mean something. Especially if they get 12 on 4th down but your to narrow minded to think that.

Sorry, I don't see any logic in your rebuttal. Seventeen yards on 3rd-and-29 is worthless to everyone except fantasy players. Defenses in garbage time don't lose games...because it's garbage time. Unless it's the Bills and Oilters in the playoffs-- the game is over. I'm not talking about a prevent defense; garbage time is different. Stats are being complied just to get stats; the game is out of hand. If we reward that, why not reward receptions? Neither of them actually affect the game, but we enjoy it.

I know I said I wasnt going to swim anymore and I was going to take my toys and leave earlier in this thread but I figured I would jump in for this one.As a Vikings fan I ve watched a few wins under Denny become loses in those situations due to our garbage time mentality. So maybe I give to much credit for those situations because I have seen those 17 yards matter all the way down the field.I also wanted to respond to you because my previous post lacked tact and was very aggressive and borderline insulting for which I apologize.

 

[Zowned]

When we look at players isnt yards per recep/carry a better way to determine worth over number of carries/receptions? I dont care if E George ran 400 times at 2.8 yards a carry for 1120 the guy (lets say (R Bush) who had 200 carries at 5.6 yards a carry for 1120 is a much better back!!! this holds true upto apoint players still need opportunity and we need a large enough data size to determine if enough variables have been overcome and met. 1 carry for 89 yards doesnt make you the best back. So why do receptions hold this value of the more the better. I DONT CARE ABOUT QUANTITY OVER QUALITY. Why are scoring systems trying to reward it?

Maybe, but how would you reward points based on an average?

I'm in a league that does this:YDS/Rush Bonus

4.0000-4.5999=1 PT

4.6000-5.0999=2 PTS

5.1000-5.5999=3 PTS

5.6000-6.0999=4 PTS

6.1000-6.5999=5 PTS

6.6000-7.0999=6 PTS

7.1000-7.5999=7 PTS

7.6000-8.0999=8 PTS

8.1000-8.5999=9 PTS

8.6000-9.0999=10 PTS

1 pt for every 0.5 Yds over

9 YDS/Rush

Must have a minimum of

10 Rushing attempts for bonus

 

[ookook]

I realize I am in a minority, but I really hate PPR leagues and flex positions too for that matter. Sure, I play in leagues with them and deal with it, but I do not like them much because of it.

My biggest beef is that is disrupts the rank order within the position far too much in an effort to equate them on value.

(1) I think that by far the best way to equate position value is through increasing the number of roster spots and therefore supply and demand. Put start 4 WRs into DD, switch baseline to worst starter and see what it does.

(2) A better way to alter scoring is to have receiving yards worth more relative to rushing. So instead of .10 per receiving yard, give .135. It still values actual performance rather than targets. This can be done for only WRs and TEs if desired.

(3) I like the suggestion I have seen for giving an extra point only for receptions that result in first downs, although I am not sure whether sites like MFL support it.

I really think as PPR has become the norm it is warping actual values and our discussions of them.

 

[Daywalker]

1 pt is too much. My main league did 1ppr for wr's only one year and the whole league just felt like a crapshoot. I know luck plays a major factor but this was ridiculous. It basically came down to whose WR's came through that year.

Wr's are harder to predict RB's. By making wr's as valuable as rb's you make luck a greater factor.

We finally settled at .25/reception for wr's only. It gives WR's a needed boost without making it a crapshoot.

 

[Kleck]

I dont understand how people believe PPR increases the value of WR over RB.

I think this is the biggest misconception about PPR. The biggest impact with PPR is that lower tier RBs and WRs become viable starters, especially in flex leagues. I also think that PPR allows teams that lose a star player to keep competing because it gives 3rd down RBs and lower level WRs more value.

I don't believe that it makes WR's MORE valuable, but that it shrinks the gap between RB's and WR's. Taking a quick look at a season's FF rankings shows that clearly.

Pointes? Yes. Value? No.

 

[bentley]

I dont understand how people believe PPR increases the value of WR over RB.

I think this is the biggest misconception about PPR. The biggest impact with PPR is that lower tier RBs and WRs become viable starters, especially in flex leagues. I also think that PPR allows teams that lose a star player to keep competing because it gives 3rd down RBs and lower level WRs more value.

I don't believe that it makes WR's MORE valuable, but that it shrinks the gap between RB's and WR's. Taking a quick look at a season's FF rankings shows that clearly.

Pointes? Yes. Value? No.

Even PPR for WR/TE and not for RBs? I'd read the article, but cosjobs didn't buy me a subscription this year.

 

[oso diablo]

1 pt is too much. My main league did 1ppr for wr's only one year and the whole league just felt like a crapshoot. I know luck plays a major factor but this was ridiculous. It basically came down to whose WR's came through that year.Wr's are harder to predict RB's. By making wr's as valuable as rb's you make luck a greater factor.We finally settled at .25/reception for wr's only. It gives WR's a needed boost without making it a crapshoot.

that's a good argument. I think you'll see the "market" correct to 0.5 ppr soon. And ultimately, at least i hope, the hobby moves to PPFirst Down.

 

[GSNVulture]

1 pt is too much. My main league did 1ppr for wr's only one year and the whole league just felt like a crapshoot. I know luck plays a major factor but this was ridiculous. It basically came down to whose WR's came through that year.Wr's are harder to predict RB's. By making wr's as valuable as rb's you make luck a greater factor.We finally settled at .25/reception for wr's only. It gives WR's a needed boost without making it a crapshoot.

that's a good argument. I think you'll see the "market" correct to 0.5 ppr soon. And ultimately, at least i hope, the hobby moves to PPFirst Down.

I think PPFirst downs would be an interesting addition to all positions. I wonder how much that would help wrs total points since 70% or so of receptions are first downs while running plays are not close to that percentage.I still have to believe that total points would be the only thing that would go up while relative value would remain the same since its an issue of supply and demand with a top end in RB that is flat out dominent in its position due to opportunities

 

[Darcimer]

Alot of the PPR migration, at least in my observations, came after this article was published a few years ago.. I think it made alot of sense at the time, as evidenced by the growing popularity of PPR.

The Huddle Perfect Scoring System

I couldn't come to terms with the way they scored the Def, and I felt that the TE scoring was way out of whack ever since premier TE's, ala Gonzo, emerged. The TE position as a whole has gone through alot of changes. Conversely, the fullback position is headed the opposite direction, which is too bad, because I really liked my fulback mandatory league. But the bulk of the article makes a good case for PPR, and offers statistical backup and well thought out explanations.

TWA

 

[turnit643]

Just to chip in ... many similar posts to this point I'm sure:

We have a long-standing 16 team performance league where depth is especially stretched.

To combat that, we incorporate PPR for WR/TE and PP2R for RB and use 2 FLEX (along with 1 QB,RB,WR,TE,K).

It has done a few things that we, as a league, like:

1. DRAFT - WR/TE's are now drafted higher - no more exclusively RB, RB, RB, RB, RB ... for the first rounds and in the later rounds there is more viable talent available.

2. WEEKLY - The FLEX positions provide the option to go with 3 WR's if you don't have that solid RB2 that others may have. This has generally led to more decision-making week in and week out and makes it less of a "who drafted the best RBs" league.

3. TRADING - It has increased trading activity as it no longer requires a top RB be involved for a significant deal to get done.

The bottom line: It works for us, no complaints among our owners.

(We also award points for return yardage and returns - I'm sure the staunch non-PPR people would really cringe at that one, but it has also added a couple valuable players to the pool that would otherwise be basically worthless.)

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

What I don't understand is why people don't understand PPR. It's a normal extension of performance-based scoring. It provides a reward for a guy being targeted and, presumably, a bigger part of the offense.you ask how is a worthless play worth anything? We reward garbage-time stats, don't we? A 17-yard carry on 3rd-and-29 is worthless-- the defense will gladly give it up. But we count it, and can thrive on it. The only plays that are "worth anything" are scoring plays, and few leagues are TD-only. Why should a guy who went "Jerricho Cotchery" on a pass play (and had just that one catch) get as many points as a receiver who was targeted all day long and was a huge part of the gameplan? Well, there's no reason why...or why not. Arguments can be made on both sides, so I don't see the big deal. If you have performance-based scoring, it doesn't really matter what performances you choose to reward. Just enjoy it.

What I don't get is people who think PPR is abnormal. Fact is, about 70% of leagues use it, I believe. I can't remember the exact numbers...

 

[JohnW1970]

Our 14 team keeper league has .5 PPR for all postions. Plus .25 PPCary and 1 PPCompletion. Makes it easier to compete in a game if your players dont get TD's. The players who touch the ball often and dont happen to score are still worth starting.

 

[Josh the FunkDOC]

I disagree with PPCarry because there isn't a whole lot of skill in getting a carry. Pure volume stat.

It still takes some degree of talent to catch the ball, on the other hand.

Here's an idea...a friend of mine runs a free Yahoo flex league. He hates PPR for RBs, and Yahoo does not allow you to give PPR for only WRs/TEs. Thus he came up with a different method to balance the positions: Changing the TD scoring. Here's how he has it:

Passing TD = 3 pts

Rushing TD = 4 pts

Receiving TD = 6 pts

The main problem with this that I see is that the good possession WRs still get kinda screwed, but otherwise it seems fine and has played out fine thus far.

However, PP First Down looks like a great idea, and .5 PPR looks fine as well. Basically, in my view, anything that reduces the value of TDs is a good thing as that is the most random part of the game.

Actually that same friend of mine, in that same league, has another idea I absolutely love and wish would catch on: Rewarding completion % for QBs. Specifically, he does PPCompletion and -PPIncompletion, and it's worked out great. Combine this with the mere 3 pts/TD and you have a system that better reflects actual QB skill.

I know a good chunk of this is off-topic, but I figured somebody would find it interesting.

 

[AcerFC]

The following was an analysis that I did for my league at the start of this year because I (commish) wanted to move more in the PPR direction. Like many have said, it is based on preference. Not all positions need to be equal but it helps all positions in the draft in case you want that WR in RD 2 or too many RBs are taken by the time it comes back to you in RD 3. Do you want to settle for a lower calibur RB or take the WR who may put up similar numbers to a 2nd tier RB.

Anyway, heres the study I did

Ok guys, I have been crunching numbers for the past 3 hours and here is what I came up with:

I took the top 25 Running backs, the top 25 Wide Receivers and the top 15 Tight Ends and calculated their total points that they would have had last year. These rankings were based on the players production last year, not rankings in a book or even more importantly my own depth charts. I evaluated what these players would have done with no ppr, and then I added .5 and 1 ppr for Running backs, 1 ppr for Wide Receivers and 1 and 1.5 ppr for Tight Ends. There was no adding in performance points (ie- 100 yard games, 40+ yard TDS, etc).

Here is what I found:

In a no ppr league there were 4 Rbs over 300+ points, 5 over 200+ points and 12 over 150+ points. That makes a total of 21/25 RBs over 150+ points with no ppr. Then I added .5 ppr for RBs and this was the result: 4 Rbs over 300+ points, 8 over 200+ points and 10 over 150+ points. Not a big difference pushing 22/25 backs over the 150+ point total. Now I added the 1 ppr equation and this was the result: 5 Rbs over 300+ points, 9 over 200+ points and 11 over 150+ points making all 25/25 backs 150+ points and over with 1 ppr.

Onto Wide Receivers: (which did not include any rushing stats but most receivers don’t have huge rushing numbers that would affect this experiment.)

In an no ppr league there were 0 Wrs over 300+ points, 3 over 200+ points and 9 over 150+ points making it 12/25 WRs that were over 150+ points with no ppr. That is less then half for those of you who have not worked with Math lately. Then I added the 1 ppr that WRs would get in our new rules and here was the conclusion: 2 WRs were over the 300+ point mark (with 2 more in the 290s), 16 WRs over 200+ points and 5 WRs over 150+ points giving us 23/25 Receivers who would have been 150+ point producers last year given the 1 ppr.

Now if you look at the numbers with the ppr added in the way we would have it this year it gives us 22/25 backs that are 150+ point producers and 23/25 WRs who are 150+ point producers. This seems a lot more equitable then with out ppr where you get this: 21/25 backs were 150+ point producers and only 12/25 WRs were 150+ point producers.

Last but not least, the Tight Ends, who benefit the most with a 1.5 ppr if the motion passes. I calculated Tight Ends with no ppr, 1 ppr and 1.5 ppr. Here was the result: With no ppr there were no TEs with 300+ or 200+ points and there was only 1 who was over 150+ points (guess who that was). Then I added 1 ppr and here is what happened: There were still 0 over the 300+ point barrier but there were 2 TEs over the 200+ point mark and 5 who were over 150+ points making it 7/15 over 150+ points. Then I added the 1.5 ppr that we would instill this year and here were the results. 1 TE over 300+ points, 6 over 200+ points and 4 TEs over 150+ points making it 11/15 TEs over 150+ points.

Again the reason for adding different points for different positions is to balance out the positions. This new system will not solve all of the problems in a fantasy league but it does give a team more options when drafting, trading and managing because there is more equality in each position.

I know that I have way too much time on my hands but thank you for reading this as it is important each owner understands the rules of the league and why I would want to change the rules a certain way.

The league voted overwhelmingly to give PPR a try. It has been working well so far

 

[Irish]

I didn't read the entire thread, because I'm short on time. I'm sure this has been touched upon already.If your league gives ppr to running backs, it should also give points per carry.If a guy is a great receiver out of the backfield, he'll get plenty of points for the yardage he gains receiving. It takes zero skill to catch a flair pass behind the line of scrimmage.PPR leagues make heroes out of guys like Dominick Davis. Hell, in a PPR league, Reggie Bush is actually making an impact instead of being considered a disapointment.

I personally prefer to play in non PPR leagues for the very reason that it overinflates value for rbs such as Bush and Larry Centers type rbs in the attempt to improve wr value. They are already rewarded points for rec yds.

 

[corpcow]

What I don't understand is why people don't understand PPR. It's a normal extension of performance-based scoring. It provides a reward for a guy being targeted and, presumably, a bigger part of the offense.you ask how is a worthless play worth anything? We reward garbage-time stats, don't we? A 17-yard carry on 3rd-and-29 is worthless-- the defense will gladly give it up. But we count it, and can thrive on it. The only plays that are "worth anything" are scoring plays, and few leagues are TD-only. Why should a guy who went "Jerricho Cotchery" on a pass play (and had just that one catch) get as many points as a receiver who was targeted all day long and was a huge part of the gameplan? Well, there's no reason why...or why not. Arguments can be made on both sides, so I don't see the big deal. If you have performance-based scoring, it doesn't really matter what performances you choose to reward. Just enjoy it.

There's nothing wrong with PPR, but it still doesn't change the relative value of the positions. RBs are worth more because they're more scarce - and all PPR does it give even MORE value to players like LT, Tiki and Westbrook who catch a ton of passes.I saw a great post once about the relative distribution with graphs and everything, I'll see if I can dig that up.

 

[bentley]

What I don't understand is why people don't understand PPR. It's a normal extension of performance-based scoring. It provides a reward for a guy being targeted and, presumably, a bigger part of the offense.you ask how is a worthless play worth anything? We reward garbage-time stats, don't we? A 17-yard carry on 3rd-and-29 is worthless-- the defense will gladly give it up. But we count it, and can thrive on it. The only plays that are "worth anything" are scoring plays, and few leagues are TD-only. Why should a guy who went "Jerricho Cotchery" on a pass play (and had just that one catch) get as many points as a receiver who was targeted all day long and was a huge part of the gameplan? Well, there's no reason why...or why not. Arguments can be made on both sides, so I don't see the big deal. If you have performance-based scoring, it doesn't really matter what performances you choose to reward. Just enjoy it.

There's nothing wrong with PPR, but it still doesn't change the relative value of the positions. RBs are worth more because they're more scarce - and all PPR does it give even MORE value to players like LT, Tiki and Westbrook who catch a ton of passes.I saw a great post once about the relative distribution with graphs and everything, I'll see if I can dig that up.

It does if you award PPR to WR/TE and not RB. Not all PPR are created equal.

 

[Lott's Fingertip]

Positional scarcity determines value.

Change your starting lineup requirements to boost WRs, don't reward non-productive stats. Get rid of the flex spot. Start only one RB. Start 4-5 WRs. These will change WR value a heck of a lot more than 1 ppr.

10 yards = 10 yards, whether it is receiving or rushing.

The player who produces more should get more fantasy points. RBs get more opportunities, so they often accumulate more yards and TDs, so they should get more points.

1300 yards and 10 TDs (plus 95 receptions) does not equal 2000 yards and 10 TDs (plus 25 receptions). It cannot possibly be clearer.

I'm not saying it's stupid to use ppr or that people should not use it, but it waters down the fantasy value of actual production. I don't understand why one would want to devalue actual production. At the very least, do not use 1 ppr.... use .25 ppr or .5 ppr, or a tiered system, .5 ppr for RBs and 1 ppr for WRs. Straight 1 ppr is silly, imo.

So, again, change your starting lineup requirements to boost WR value. That is the BEST way.

**

(Out of the 5 leagues I care about, 4 use ppr in some fashion. Two are straight 1 ppr for all.... and it really only increases the pool of startable players. That makes it EASIER for the less sharkish players, imo. Two of my leagues use some sort of tiered ppr, i.e., .5 ppr for RBs, 1 ppr for WRs/TEs. This is moderately less bad than straight ppr.)