Presidential Debate Thread - Obama vs. Romney (2 Viewers)

[Politician Spock]

Would be great if we could get Gary Johnson in the next debate, so America could actually see some NEW ideas about how to fix all of the problems the Dems and Repubs have caused.

Wasn't Gary Johnson recently a Con himself? Just because you change the letter behind your name...

A Con? He was never a convict, and never a conservative. Not sure what else that might mean.

Conartist.

 

[Sarnoff]

Obama thought he won.

Obama 'believed he had BEATEN Romney' in Denver debate - after ignoring advice of top aides on preparation

Obama believes he'd got the better of Romney as he walked off stage to the dismay of his aides, according to a Democrat close to the campaign

The President failed to prepare properly, opting instead to visit the Hoover Dam the day before the showdown

Democrat claims he was so disdainful of Romney that he didn't think he needed to even engage with him

Had one-liners on 47% prepared but chose not to use them

Spoiler

When President Barack Obama stepped off the stage in Denver last week the 60 million Americans watching the debate against Mitt Romney already knew it had been a disaster for him.

But what nobody knew, until now, was that Obama believed he had actually won.

In an extraordinary insight into the events leading up to the 90 minute showdown which changed the face of the election, a Democrat close to the Obama campaign today reveals that the President also did not take his debate preparation seriously, ignored the advice of senior aides and ignored one-liners that had been prepared to wound Romney.

The Democrat said that Obama's inner circle was dismayed at the 'disaster' and that he believed the central problem was that the President was so disdainful of Romney that he didn't believe he needed to engage with him.

'President Obama made it clear he wanted to be doing anything else - anything - but debate prep,' the Democrat said. 'He kept breaking off whenever he got the opportunity and never really focused on the event.

'He went into the debate armed with a number of one-liners to throw at Romney, including at least two about Romney not caring about 47 per cent of the country. But he decided not to use them.'

The Democrat, who is aligned with the Obama campaign and has been an unofficial adviser on occasions, said that David Axelrod, Obama's chief strategist, was stunned that the President left the stage feeling that he had won the debate.

'To his credit, the President believes that debates are about substance rather than performance. He felt that his argument about the direction this country should take was much stronger than Romney's. Unfortunately, that's not the way modern debates work.'

During his debate preparation in Henderson, Nevada, Obama broke off to visit a campaign field office. There, he joked with a volunteer about how his advisers were 'keeping me indoors all the time' to practice. 'It's a drag. They're making me do my homework.'

Obama also decided to take a break to visit the Hoover Dam. 'Its spectacular, and I've never seen it before,' he told reporters during the visit, which came about because an aide had mentioned the dam was nearby. I said, 'Well, we've got to go check it out".'

Even before the debate, some advisers were worried that Obama, who had been distracted and detached during some of the sessions in which Senator John Kerry had played Romney, would have an off night.

But in his closing statement in Denver, Obama said that it had been 'a terrific debate and I very much appreciate it' - an upbeat comment that reflected his view that he had at the very least held his own against Romney.

But he then delivered a line that bemused his advisers: 'You know, four years ago, I said that I'm not a perfect man and I wouldn't be a perfect president. And that's probably a promise that Governor Romney thinks I've kept.'

The Democrat said: 'It was as bad as "likeable enough". The President thought he was being bitingly sarcastic about what he saw as Romney's overly-aggressive performance. But to your swing voter it was as if he was waving the white flag of surrender.'

His 'likeable enough' allusion was a reference to a Democratic primary debate in 2008 when Obama had said to his rival Hillary Clinton: 'You're likeable enough, Hillary'. At the time, Obama felt he was being light-hearted and casual but viewers saw it as Obama being arrogant and condescending.

The Democrat would not reveal what the attack lines were that Obama failed to deliver 'because we may well see the Vice President using them against Ryan'.

Vice President Joe Biden faces Representative Paul Ryan, the Republican vice-presidential nominee, in a debate in Danville, Kentucky on Thursday. It will be the only time the two men - one of who was born in 1942, the other in 1970 - will debate.

Biden, 69, is vastly more experienced that the 42-year-old Ryan. The Obama campaign is counting on him to vigorously attack the Romney-Ryan ticket in a way that the President did not.

Although it took Obama more than 24 hours, the Democrat said, to concede that Romney had soundly beaten him, the President's aides realised immediately they had a major problem.

Almost immediately, the campaign's central message that Romney was a captive of the hard-Right wing of his party was shifted to portraying him as a flip-flopper.

At the same time, the campaign decided to accuse Romney of lying in the debate and also sought to highlight his comments about cutting public funding of the PBS network by making hay with the republican's quip that 'I love Big Bird'.

The Romney campaign believes that the result has been disjointed and reeks of panic.

On a press conference call the day after the debate, Axelrod said the campaign would take 'a hard look' at what had happened and would 'make some judgements about where to draw the lines in these debates and how to use our time'.

He is understood to have taken charge of debate preparation and be planning on longer, more streamlined sessions with fewer people present.

Obama failed to learn a crucial lesson from The West Wing:

C.J.

Toby, I'm absolutely terrified we're going to lose the expectations game. I can't believe how many times I get asked what would be a win in the debates. At this point I feel like if -- and only if -- Ritchie accidentally lights his podium on fire does the President have a fighting chance.

TOBY

I disagree.

C.J.

Disagree all you want, but I'm right.

TOBY

These two men are going to be side by side on the stage, answering questions. That's the ball game.

C.J.

If the whole thing is, he can't tie his shoelaces and it turns out he can, then that is the ball game.

 

[Phil Elliott]

I believe that in the next debate president Obama will be a bit more aggressive. Some that I know also believe this.

Yes, and many that I know believe this too.

I have read this also.

 

[Phil Elliott]

Mitt is a stud, you don't accomplish what he's accomplished professionally by acting like Herman Cain.

Perhaps it takes people with financial services background to understand how accomplished he is?

His professional background is certainly stronger than "community organizer."

Shocking he doesn't get more props for his professional experience from the media....oh wai, I forgot. The Left doesn't like successful people, they are all greedy and only looking out form themselves. :heartless:

Acutally they like successul people quite a bit. They need them to fund their programs.

 

[GeauxTigers]

Romney owned Obama in the debates.

 

[Politician Spock]

Obama 'believed he had BEATEN Romney' in Denver debate

Shake it up is all that we know

Using the bodies up as we go

I'm waking up to fantasy

The shades all around

Aren't the colors we used to see

Broken ice still melts in the sun

And times that are broken

Can often be one again

We're soul alone

And soul really matters to me

Take a look around

You're out of touch

I'm out of time

But I'm out of my head

When you're not around

You're out of touch

I'm out of time

But I'm out of my head

When you're not around

Reaching out for something to hold

Looking for a love where the climate is cold

Manic moves and drowsy dreams

Or living in the middle between the two extremes

Smoking guns hot to the touch

Would cool down if we didn't

Use them so much, yeah

We're soul alone

And soul really matters to me

Too much

You're out of touch

I'm out of time

But I'm out of my head

When you're not around

You're out of touch

I'm out of time

But I'm out of my head

When you're not around

Out of touch

Out of touch

You're out of touch

I'm out of time

But I'm out of my head

When you're not around

You're out of touch

I'm out of time

But I'm out of my head

When you're not around

You're out of touch

I'm out of time

But I'm out of my head

When you're not around

 

[ElGatoLoco]

The candidates made about as much sense.

 

[cstu]

Romney owned Obama in the debates.

He won primarily because Romney was a better debater (i.e. looking at his opponent rather than his shoes) not on the substance. I can see why Obama thought he did fine - until he actually watched tape of himself in the debate.

 

[CrossEyed]

I believe that in the next debate president Obama will be a bit more aggressive. Some that I know also believe this.

Yes, and many that I know believe this too.

I have read this also.

You can only be so aggressive in a town hall. I can't see either guy connecting any major punches in that format.

 

[Black Sunshine]

Would be great if we could get Gary Johnson in the next debate, so America could actually see some NEW ideas about how to fix all of the problems the Dems and Repubs have caused.

Wasn't Gary Johnson recently a Con himself? Just because you change the letter behind your name...

A Con? He was never a convict, and never a conservative. Not sure what else that might mean.

Republicon

 

[adonis]

I believe that in the next debate president Obama will be a bit more aggressive. Some that I know also believe this.

Yes, and many that I know believe this too.

I have read this also.

You can only be so aggressive in a town hall. I can't see either guy connecting any major punches in that format.

It's actually pretty easy, both for a person to be aggressive in a town hall format, and especially for Obama to be more aggressive.

 

[jamny]

Round 2!

Just got booked to setup and run an event to show it tonight. Getting paid to watch the debate.

 

[GoBirds]

So this is a town hall atmosphere and are topics selected or wide open?

 

[Wrighteous Ray]

So this is a town hall atmosphere and are topics selected or wide open?

Yup, town hall. Candidates don't know the topics, but the moderator will know the questions in advance so we shouldn't get anything too nutty.

 

[Joe T]

My question:

"Without wasting the majority of your two minutes talking about what a big hole we are in, what are you going to do to improve the economy and unemployment?"

 

[Sarnoff]

My question(s):

"Mr. President, by all accounts you've squandered many of your opportunities, and failed to deliver on many of your promises. Instead of unifying people, you became combative. Instead of leading a new era of government, you relied on Pelosi and Reid to craft your agenda for you. You didn't close Guantanamo, you didn't get us out of Iraq, our foreign policy is in shambles and the financial recovery has been anemic at best. You were given the trust of the American people four years ago, and you blew it. Honestly, what happened???"

And, "Governor Romney, why the hell should we think you could do any better?"

With the follow up, "And why are the both of you afraid to let Gary Johnson participate in this?"

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

My Question: Governor Romney, how can you stand against outsourcing american jobs when you are continuing to profit through your investments in Bain, a company that many have called a China "outsourcing pioneer " ?

Follow up: With all the income you by outsourcing those American jobs, how much of it did you hide in off shore tax havens?

 

[Tuco]

My Question: Governor Romney, how can you stand against outsourcing american jobs when you are continuing to profit through your investments in Bain, a company that many have called a China "outsourcing pioneer " ?Follow up: With all the income you by outsourcing those American jobs, how much of it did you hide in off shore tax havens?

And your question for Obama?

 

[Parrothead]

Giving full credit to the OP in the FFA thread, I would ask "Which Harry Potter book title would you say best describes your last bowel movement"

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

My Question: Governor Romney, how can you stand against outsourcing american jobs when you are continuing to profit through your investments in Bain, a company that many have called a China "outsourcing pioneer " ?Follow up: With all the income you by outsourcing those American jobs, how much of it did you hide in off shore tax havens?

And your question for Obama?

Mr. President: Why don't you fight for the people who elected you instead of trying to negotiate with people who will never do anything but try to destroy every thing the people that elected you stand for? In short to use a sports term, why do you always play to the opposition?

 

[17seconds]

"Mr. President, by all accounts you've squandered many of your opportunities, and failed to deliver on many of your promises. Instead of unifying people, you became combative. Instead of leading a new era of government, you relied on Pelosi and Reid to craft your agenda for you. You didn't close Guantanamo, you didn't get us out of Iraq, our foreign policy is in shambles and the financial recovery has been anemic at best. You were given the trust of the American people four years ago, and you blew it. Honestly, what happened???"

I hate reporters who do this. ("is there a question in there somewhere?")

 

[17seconds]

So this is a town hall atmosphere and are topics selected or wide open?

slam poetry and then they wrap it up with dueling pianos

 

[Colin Dowling]

My question: "mitt, what loopholes will you close SPeCIFICalLY?"

 

[timschochet]

Governor Romney, no one's listening: those Tea Partiers are some crazy ####s, aren't they?

 

[Psychopav]

President Obama, what will you do with all of your free time come January?

 

[DoubleG]

Mr. President, I understand why Governor Romney is afraid to let the Candy Crowley ask follow up questions, as she is seen as a liberal, but what the #### are you so afraid of?

 

[DoubleG]

President Obama, what will you do with all of your free time come January?

Oh wow - right to the point.

 

[drummer]

President Obama, what will you do with all of your free time come January?

Oh wow

 

[meatwad1]

Mr. President, there currently are rumors swirling around the tabloids (Enquirer, Star, etc.) that you were a regular on the gay bathhouse circuit in Chicago and also that you specifically created a superfluous position on your cabinet for gay actor Kal Penn in order for you two to be 'closer'. Why have you not done more for gay rights in your tenure as president?

 

[Run It Up]

Mitt, can you explain literally any part of your platform in detail with specifics?

 

[drummer]

Mr. President, there currently are rumors swirling around the tabloids (Enquirer, Star, etc.) that you were a regular on the gay bathhouse circuit in Chicago and also that you specifically created a superfluous position on your cabinet for gay actor Kal Penn in order for you two to be 'closer'. Why have you not done more for gay rights in your tenure as president?

"Can you please put some clothes on Sir" - Candy Crowley to meatwad.

 

[DoubleG]

Mitt, can you explain literally any part of your platform in detail with specifics?

Can we stop using this drastically overused (and misused) word? TIA.

 

[Run It Up]

Mitt, can you explain literally any part of your platform in detail with specifics?

Can we stop using this drastically overused (and misused) word? TIA.

It is appropriately used in the context of my question, you can tell because you are crying about it - it's a dead give away.

 

[Psychopav]

Mitt, can you explain literally any part of your platform in detail with specifics?

Can we stop using this drastically overused (and misused) word? TIA.

It is appropriately used in the context of my question, you can tell because you are crying about it - it's a dead give away.

It's like rain on my wedding day.

 

[Neovivo]

Question to both candidates-

What do you guy have planned to move our country forward, and to end the bipartisan politics that is like an anchor around Americans neck?

 

[Underachievers]

Question to both candidates-

What do you guy have planned to move our country forward, and to end the bipartisan politics that is like an anchor around Americans neck?

Not sure that would be a problem if it actually existed.

 

[adonis]

What do I expect tonight?

I expect Mitt Romney to dominate this event.

 

[sublimeone]

What do you think Obama's strategy should be tonight? Romney's?

Obama is in a sort of unique situation. He wants to come out and reassert himself, be aggressive, show that he's engaged, energetic and that he has a plan. But it would be a big mistake if he comes out too aggressive. According to this USA Today/Gallup poll he has lost a lot of support from women in swing states. I think this is due to debate #1 but also to the way Biden conducted himself in the VP debate. He needs to be aggressive but needs to walk a fine line that is not going to be viewed as condescending or too combative.

The town hall style debate typically has very few fireworks. If Obama plays it cool, holds his head up, and engages with the audience he puts himself in the best overall position. Abortion will no doubt be a topic of discussion and this will provide him an opportunity to score some points.

It seems like many on the left want him to come out and win back everything he's lost over the last couple of weeks in one night. If he tries to be overly aggressive he will appease the base but it would be a huge mistake IMO and will not stem the tide of support that has been moving towards Romney. His best move would be to come out and engage and be the cool Obama from 2008. He's not going to erase the damage done in debate #1 but he can stop the bleeding.

Romney should take his foot off of the accelerator tonight. He gained some capital in the first debate and the polling has been really positive for him. He should assume the role of front runner. He makes a mistake if he spends too much time attacking Obama's record/plan's. The town hall style debate really doesn't lend itself well to attack anyway so he should use this time to connect and talk directly to the American people.

Conservatives tend to be more logic focused but if I was advising Romney I would have him looking to appeal emotionally. Have a lot of personal stories ready to go. Mitt does best if he has a "I feel your pain" moment.

 

[Sarnoff]

Mitt does best if he has a "I feel your pain" moment.

Mitt does worst if he tries this but it looks faked. If he comes across as disingenuous, like he's trying to "relate to the average person" in a way that he obviously by his position cannot, he blows it.

 

[sublimeone]

Mitt does best if he has a "I feel your pain" moment.

Mitt does worst if he tries this but it looks faked. If he comes across as disingenuous, like he's trying to "relate to the average person" in a way that he obviously by his position cannot, he blows it.

phoney is never good... and I meant that more as a joke. He just needs to be empathetic.

 

[timschochet]

I wrote before the first debate that roughly twice as many Americans would watch that one than the next two. That prediction followed the trends recent history, but I turned out to be wrong. Whether it's because it's on more channels, or because the public is more tuned in to politics this time around, the audience for tonight's debate will be as big as two weeks ago, perhaps bigger. (I still think less people will watch the 3rd debate, which is devoted to foreign policy.)

That means that tonight is much more crucial than I supposed. Romney can cement his momentum. Or Obama can reverse things. Specifically: recent polls demonstrate that Romney made gains among suburban women after the first debate. For Obama to win, he has to find a way to get them back.

 

[jonessed]

With any luck Obama will over-compensate for the first debate and come out acting like Biden.

 

[The Commish]

I'd ask Romney if he could be specific about anything in his platform emphasising I'd like to hear about the loopholes the most. I'd ask the President what he'd do differently his second four years than he's done his first four.

 

[DoubleG]

Abortion will no doubt be a topic of discussion and this will provide him an opportunity to score some points.

Most of your post makes a lot of sense - and I agree with virtually everything posted in terms of what each candidate needs to do. I do have to take issue with one thing you said - the above sentence. Based on recent gallup numbers (here) - If 50% of Americans are pro-life, with only 41% identifying themselves as pro-choice, wouldn't that lose him points? Especially with independent voters, of whom 47% are pro-life as compared to 41% pro-choice. That's a huge swing from where both groups were in 2008. My point is, that in 2008 he could have (and probably did) score points against the Republicans by making his pro-choice stance clear - in 2012, when more independents and more of the general population claim to be pro-life, I am not so sure that will work nearly as well as it did 4 years ago.

 

[Ursa M]

Abortion will no doubt be a topic of discussion and this will provide him an opportunity to score some points.

Most of your post makes a lot of sense - and I agree with virtually everything posted in terms of what each candidate needs to do. I do have to take issue with one thing you said - the above sentence. Based on recent gallup numbers (here) - If 50% of Americans are pro-life, with only 41% identifying themselves as pro-choice, wouldn't that lose him points? Especially with independent voters, of whom 47% are pro-life as compared to 41% pro-choice. That's a huge swing from where both groups were in 2008. My point is, that in 2008 he could have (and probably did) score points against the Republicans by making his pro-choice stance clear - in 2012, when more independents and more of the general population claim to be pro-life, I am not so sure that will work nearly as well as it did 4 years ago.

Why do you call it pro-life as opposed to anti-abortion?

 

[The Commish]

I'd ask Romney if he could be specific about anything in his platform emphasising I'd like to hear about the loopholes the most. I'd ask the President what he'd do differently his second four years than he's done his first four.

Actually...no I wouldn't. I'd ask them both if they had to battle through the courts to be part of the debate and if they were ok with the fact that others did and were denied.

 

[sublimeone]

Abortion will no doubt be a topic of discussion and this will provide him an opportunity to score some points.

Most of your post makes a lot of sense - and I agree with virtually everything posted in terms of what each candidate needs to do. I do have to take issue with one thing you said - the above sentence. Based on recent gallup numbers (here) - If 50% of Americans are pro-life, with only 41% identifying themselves as pro-choice, wouldn't that lose him points? Especially with independent voters, of whom 47% are pro-life as compared to 41% pro-choice. That's a huge swing from where both groups were in 2008. My point is, that in 2008 he could have (and probably did) score points against the Republicans by making his pro-choice stance clear - in 2012, when more independents and more of the general population claim to be pro-life, I am not so sure that will work nearly as well as it did 4 years ago.

You may very well be correct. I think the reason democrats raise the abortion debate more often is because they feel they can energize younger and single women to vote. In their view, a large enough voting bloc of women, who would otherwise stay home, get up and vote if they are convinced republicans are going to take away their "right" to an abortion. They must feel this outweighs the negatives. I guess I just assumed this was correct because you see democrats bringing up pro-choice a lot more often than you see republicans bringing up pro-life. I would be happy to be wrong about this.edited to add: I think Romney would be wise to bring up Obama's support of partial birth abortion.

 

[The Commish]

Abortion will no doubt be a topic of discussion and this will provide him an opportunity to score some points.

Most of your post makes a lot of sense - and I agree with virtually everything posted in terms of what each candidate needs to do. I do have to take issue with one thing you said - the above sentence. Based on recent gallup numbers (here) - If 50% of Americans are pro-life, with only 41% identifying themselves as pro-choice, wouldn't that lose him points? Especially with independent voters, of whom 47% are pro-life as compared to 41% pro-choice. That's a huge swing from where both groups were in 2008. My point is, that in 2008 he could have (and probably did) score points against the Republicans by making his pro-choice stance clear - in 2012, when more independents and more of the general population claim to be pro-life, I am not so sure that will work nearly as well as it did 4 years ago.

You may very well be correct. I think the reason democrats raise the abortion debate more often is because they feel they can energize younger and single women to vote. In their view, a large enough voting bloc of women, who would otherwise stay home, get up and vote if they are convinced republicans are going to take away their "right" to an abortion. They must feel this outweighs the negatives. I guess I just assumed this was correct because you see democrats bringing up pro-choice a lot more often than you see republicans bringing up pro-life. I would be happy to be wrong about this.

I'm not sure I am buying this. About 80% of the protest groups at the DNC were anti-abortion groups with those disgusting pictures plastered everywhere. They weren't talking about much else that I could see. But I could have missed them for all the aborted baby posters

 

[DoubleG]

Abortion will no doubt be a topic of discussion and this will provide him an opportunity to score some points.

Most of your post makes a lot of sense - and I agree with virtually everything posted in terms of what each candidate needs to do. I do have to take issue with one thing you said - the above sentence. Based on recent gallup numbers (here) - If 50% of Americans are pro-life, with only 41% identifying themselves as pro-choice, wouldn't that lose him points? Especially with independent voters, of whom 47% are pro-life as compared to 41% pro-choice. That's a huge swing from where both groups were in 2008. My point is, that in 2008 he could have (and probably did) score points against the Republicans by making his pro-choice stance clear - in 2012, when more independents and more of the general population claim to be pro-life, I am not so sure that will work nearly as well as it did 4 years ago.

Why do you call it pro-life as opposed to anti-abortion?

Because that's what the study I cited called it? Would you prefer I use "pro-life" and "pro-abortion"? Or "anti-abortion" and "anti-unborn child"?

"Pro-life" and "Pro-choice" are kind of the universally agreed to terms in this situation. Sorry if that bothers you.

 

[DoubleG]

Abortion will no doubt be a topic of discussion and this will provide him an opportunity to score some points.

Most of your post makes a lot of sense - and I agree with virtually everything posted in terms of what each candidate needs to do. I do have to take issue with one thing you said - the above sentence. Based on recent gallup numbers (here) - If 50% of Americans are pro-life, with only 41% identifying themselves as pro-choice, wouldn't that lose him points? Especially with independent voters, of whom 47% are pro-life as compared to 41% pro-choice. That's a huge swing from where both groups were in 2008. My point is, that in 2008 he could have (and probably did) score points against the Republicans by making his pro-choice stance clear - in 2012, when more independents and more of the general population claim to be pro-life, I am not so sure that will work nearly as well as it did 4 years ago.

You may very well be correct. I think the reason democrats raise the abortion debate more often is because they feel they can energize younger and single women to vote. In their view, a large enough voting bloc of women, who would otherwise stay home, get up and vote if they are convinced republicans are going to take away their "right" to an abortion. They must feel this outweighs the negatives. I guess I just assumed this was correct because you see democrats bringing up pro-choice a lot more often than you see republicans bringing up pro-life. I would be happy to be wrong about this.edited to add: I think Romney would be wise to bring up Obama's support of partial birth abortion.

Ummm...yes.