Presidential Debate Thread - Obama vs. Romney (1 Viewer)

[DoubleG]

Another set of comments from Steve Landsburg. He gives the edge to Obama this time.

He sounds, I think, very good as long as you don’t compare his rhetoric to his policies.

He buried the lead. His final point was exactly what I came away thinking.

 

[Sarnoff]

Wolf presented the poll as 46 - 39 Obama and said there was 8 point increase in sampling Republicans over their normal polls. Then he said that meant it was a tie. Isn't that backwards?

Wolf is still trying to figure out if little Falcon was in that balloon.

"Oh dear, they're hitting the balloon with a shovel now, I hope that little boy is OK"

 

[md8]

These arguments on the internet are just as interesting as the actual debate. Basically each side saying "you're wrong"-"no you're wrong"-"no you're wrong!".

I think most, if not all, politicians are dirty. So I don't really take sides. Basically my options this Nov are to elect either a probable bad president, or a proven bad one. Awesome! This is why our country is going down the drain and many people have stopped voting.

As for the debate I don't think either side "won". Obama did a good job of not directly answering questions. Romney should have won easily but fumbled a few times, like with his Libya answer. Liberals and uneducated people will think Romney looked stupid. Republicans will point out what Romney meant. And everyone else won't give a ####. If Obama denied extra security then he messed up, but who cares if we didn't know it was a terrorist attack until much later.

And am I stupid, or is the obvious way to stop business from outsourcing to other countries is to tax them so much that it's not worth doing it?????

 

[Jim11]

No bigger fairy tale than "hope and change".....ever

Everytime you pay your taxes now, you can think of me and how you are helping to pay for my health care now. Hope AND change.

At least you admit that you're a leech...but in the end you're still a leech.

So are you.

That's weak, even by your standards. Your desperation is evident.

 

[drummer]

These arguments on the internet are just as interesting as the actual debate. Basically each side saying "you're wrong"-"no you're wrong"-"no you're wrong!".

I think most, if not all, politicians are dirty. So I don't really take sides. Basically my options this Nov are to elect either a probable bad president, or a proven bad one. Awesome! This is why our country is going down the drain and many people have stopped voting.

As for the debate I don't think either side "won". Obama did a good job of not directly answering questions. Romney should have won easily but fumbled a few times, like with his Libya answer. Liberals and uneducated people will think Romney looked stupid. Republicans will point out what Romney meant. And everyone else won't give a ####. If Obama denied extra security then he messed up, but who cares if we didn't know it was a terrorist attack until much later.

And am I stupid, or is the obvious way to stop business from outsourcing to other countries is to tax them so much that it's not worth doing it?????

Really poor setup and finish there.

 

[Jim11]

No bigger fairy tale than "hope and change".....ever

Everytime you pay your taxes now, you can think of me and how you are helping to pay for my health care now. Hope AND change.

At least you admit that you're a leech...but in the end you're still a leech.

What state are you from Jim?

Why would you like to know?

 

[drummer]

No bigger fairy tale than "hope and change".....ever

Everytime you pay your taxes now, you can think of me and how you are helping to pay for my health care now. Hope AND change.

At least you admit that you're a leech...but in the end you're still a leech.

So are you.

That's weak, even by your standards. Your desperation is evident.

No it's on point. We can compile you entire output here, and see that you add zero. Thus, not adding, but leeching.

 

[Willie Neslon]

@mrsneslon wait Joseph a bank isn't a bank?

 

[badmojo1006]

These arguments on the internet are just as interesting as the actual debate. Basically each side saying "you're wrong"-"no you're wrong"-"no you're wrong!".

I think most, if not all, politicians are dirty. So I don't really take sides. Basically my options this Nov are to elect either a probable bad president, or a proven bad one. Awesome! This is why our country is going down the drain and many people have stopped voting.

As for the debate I don't think either side "won". Obama did a good job of not directly answering questions. Romney should have won easily but fumbled a few times, like with his Libya answer. Liberals and uneducated people will think Romney looked stupid. Republicans will point out what Romney meant. And everyone else won't give a ####. If Obama denied extra security then he messed up, but who cares if we didn't know it was a terrorist attack until much later.

And am I stupid, or is the obvious way to stop business from outsourcing to other countries is to tax them so much that it's not worth doing it?????

 

[geoff8695]

@mrsneslon did you eat all the gingersnaps #doghouse

My 2nd favorite post in this thread

 

[Jewell]

50. Now Obama takes the same softball. Says he believes in free enterprise. Then why is he trying to run the auto industry? Or dictate women’s wages? Or run the insurance industry? Or favor the manufacturing sector? (Yes, I know I’m repeating myself.) But a lot of viewers will look right past this. He sounds, I think, very good as long as you don’t compare his rhetoric to his policies.

Comparing takes time, knowledge, and reason. It's easier to just accept the rhetoric.

 

[Jim11]

No bigger fairy tale than "hope and change".....ever

Everytime you pay your taxes now, you can think of me and how you are helping to pay for my health care now. Hope AND change.

At least you admit that you're a leech...but in the end you're still a leech.

So are you.

That's weak, even by your standards. Your desperation is evident.

No it's on point. We can compile you entire output here, and see that you add zero. Thus, not adding, but leeching.

And you prove my point.

 

[md8]

These arguments on the internet are just as interesting as the actual debate. Basically each side saying "you're wrong"-"no you're wrong"-"no you're wrong!".

I think most, if not all, politicians are dirty. So I don't really take sides. Basically my options this Nov are to elect either a probable bad president, or a proven bad one. Awesome! This is why our country is going down the drain and many people have stopped voting.

As for the debate I don't think either side "won". Obama did a good job of not directly answering questions. Romney should have won easily but fumbled a few times, like with his Libya answer. Liberals and uneducated people will think Romney looked stupid. Republicans will point out what Romney meant. And everyone else won't give a ####. If Obama denied extra security then he messed up, but who cares if we didn't know it was a terrorist attack until much later.

And am I stupid, or is the obvious way to stop business from outsourcing to other countries is to tax them so much that it's not worth doing it?????

Really poor setup and finish there.

"no you're wrong!".

 

[DoubleG]

@mrsneslon did you eat all the gingersnaps #doghouse

My 2nd favorite post in this thread

What was your favorite?

 

[Jim11]

Crowley was a great choice for Barack. And he still couldn't hit a home run.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/oct/17/curl-crowley-skews-hard-obama-disastrous-debate/

She even chose this question, directed to both men: "I do attribute much of America's economic and international problems to the failings and missteps of the Bush administration. Since both of you are Republicans, I fear the return to the policies of those years should you win this election. What is the biggest difference between you and George W. Bush, and how do you differentiate yourself from George W. Bush?"

Ms. Crowley, who called Mr. Romney's selection of Rep. Paul Ryan as running mate a "ticket death wish," asserted her unilateral power at the outset, telling the audience before the cameras went on that she planned to "give the debate direction and ensure the candidates give answers to the questions."

 

[DoubleG]

No it's on point. We can compile you entire output here, and see that you add zero. Thus, not adding, but leeching.

And you prove my point.

Could the two of you start a new thread - title: Slap Fight. TIA. And stop quoting the last 17 posts - thanks again

 

[drummer]

No it's on point. We can compile you entire output here, and see that you add zero. Thus, not adding, but leeching.

And you prove my point.

Could the two of you start a new thread - title: Slap Fight. TIA. And stop quoting the last 17 posts - thanks again

Stop playing the "I'm above it all" here. TIA.

 

[cstu]

I challenge you guys to find an independent, a progressive, or even a moderate, centrist Republican who thinks that the Libya issue is a big deal. If you believe it is a big deal, you are a right-wing Republican who is already planning on voting for Romney. Nothing wrong with that, but you ARE wrong if you think this story will have any legs whatsoever with the American public. Only partisans care.

And if conservative talk show hosts spend the next several days arguing over what Obama said in the Rose Garden, no one will pay attention to that either. Romney tried, he got slapped down, it's over. Chalk it up as a loss and let's keep discussing the economy because it's the only way that Romney can win. Any foreign policy discussion is a victory for Obama..

Challenge accepted! I care about the issue and think it's a big deal. What do I win?

I agree completely. Tim, I think you are wrong on this one.Let's just break it on down to the simplest form here. Obama's foreign policy has not gone the way he wanted. When he was elected, he was viewed very favorably around the world--including the middle-east. Now they are burning him in effigy in many parts of this same area. Obama wants no part of a foreign policy debate with Romney because all he has is I got Bin-Laden, but the rest is a big mess. Romney has no foreign policy track record for the President to go after, so there is nothing Obama can point to other than generalities. Romney has specific events he can blame (again whether right or wrong) on the President. Romney can frankly armchair QB the whole thing and say, "I would have done this and that and look what the President did," and it makes Obama look bad.

The world is still more favorable to the U.S. than under Bush.The main reason for his drop in popularity are the drone attacks, which only 28% of Americans disapprove of.

 

[LHUCKS]

Fascinating debate.

The best in my adult life.

Slight edge to Obama....still voting for Rya...err, I mean Romney.

 

[DoubleG]

Crowley was a great choice for Barack. And he still couldn't hit a home run.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/oct/17/curl-crowley-skews-hard-obama-disastrous-debate/

She even chose this question, directed to both men: "I do attribute much of America's economic and international problems to the failings and missteps of the Bush administration. Since both of you are Republicans, I fear the return to the policies of those years should you win this election. What is the biggest difference between you and George W. Bush, and how do you differentiate yourself from George W. Bush?"

Ms. Crowley, who called Mr. Romney's selection of Rep. Paul Ryan as running mate a "ticket death wish," asserted her unilateral power at the outset, telling the audience before the cameras went on that she planned to "give the debate direction and ensure the candidates give answers to the questions."

The best line is in the comments:Obama's running game greatly benefited from his 350 pound blocker.

 

[tommyboy]

Obama needed more than a draw tonight and he didn't get it. But I don't think it was a draw - Romney took this debate too.

You should be voting for someone else because you need a third party candidate to legalize the drugs you must be taking to conclude that.

How do you say Obama won this one? Clearly at the VERY LEAST it was a draw, but I still think Romney nailed it on the economy and jobs and that was the dagger.

The defining moment of the debate is the Libya question.Romney could have made some points on that, but he looked weak and petty on it and Obama was Presidential.Very few people will disagree on that

I really don't give two ####s about the Rose Garden gotcha, but the scolding that Obama gave Romney on politicizing the issue as the crisis was unfolding was something to behold.

Is that because the administration's conduct for two weeks following might be seen as politicizing the issue, or because you think Romney and his supporters are politicizing the reaction to the administration's handling?Not sure where you stand personally, but I'm really curious as to how people sitting on the fence are interpreting this. I think this issue, and which side is seen as playing politics with it the most, has a chance to make a real impact in the final weeks leading up to the election.

Pretty fascinating to me, anyways...

My comment was about the verbal spanking, not the issue itself. On the substantive issue, I'm reserving judgment until I know more, but I would categorize my current stance as concerned about the administration's handling of the security issue. I'm less concerned about the post-event communication.

i would say you're not trying very hard to understand what happened or how the administration handled it. I knew within 48 hrs that it was a terrorist attack and posted links allowing you or anyone to learn about what was happening real time. I guarantee you Dr Detroit knew this as well. Its not like he and I are on the same page politically..the fact the administration stuck to the spontaneous eruption story, allegedly due to an obscure youtube video, put a man in jail, trotted out susan rice to hit all the sunday talk shows doubling down on this bs cover story is striking and flat out dishonest. If little old me, with an internet connection, can figure out what happened within 2 days, i guarantee you Obama and Biden knew within hours

 

[drummer]

Obama needed more than a draw tonight and he didn't get it. But I don't think it was a draw - Romney took this debate too.

You should be voting for someone else because you need a third party candidate to legalize the drugs you must be taking to conclude that.

How do you say Obama won this one? Clearly at the VERY LEAST it was a draw, but I still think Romney nailed it on the economy and jobs and that was the dagger.

The defining moment of the debate is the Libya question.Romney could have made some points on that, but he looked weak and petty on it and Obama was Presidential.Very few people will disagree on that

I really don't give two ####s about the Rose Garden gotcha, but the scolding that Obama gave Romney on politicizing the issue as the crisis was unfolding was something to behold.

Is that because the administration's conduct for two weeks following might be seen as politicizing the issue, or because you think Romney and his supporters are politicizing the reaction to the administration's handling?Not sure where you stand personally, but I'm really curious as to how people sitting on the fence are interpreting this. I think this issue, and which side is seen as playing politics with it the most, has a chance to make a real impact in the final weeks leading up to the election.

Pretty fascinating to me, anyways...

My comment was about the verbal spanking, not the issue itself. On the substantive issue, I'm reserving judgment until I know more, but I would categorize my current stance as concerned about the administration's handling of the security issue. I'm less concerned about the post-event communication.

i would say you're not trying very hard to understand what happened or how the administration handled it. I knew within 48 hrs that it was a terrorist attack and posted links allowing you or anyone to learn about what was happening real time. I guarantee you Dr Detroit knew this as well. Its not like he and I are on the same page politically..the fact the administration stuck to the spontaneous eruption story, allegedly due to an obscure youtube video, put a man in jail, trotted out susan rice to hit all the sunday talk shows doubling down on this bs cover story is striking and flat out dishonest. If little old me, with an internet connection, can figure out what happened within 2 days, i guarantee you Obama and Biden knew within hours

Jeebus tommy, we all can read a freakin newspaper.

 

[LHUCKS]

Isn't Jindal's window of relevance closed.

 

[bigbottom]

Obama needed more than a draw tonight and he didn't get it. But I don't think it was a draw - Romney took this debate too.

You should be voting for someone else because you need a third party candidate to legalize the drugs you must be taking to conclude that.

How do you say Obama won this one? Clearly at the VERY LEAST it was a draw, but I still think Romney nailed it on the economy and jobs and that was the dagger.

The defining moment of the debate is the Libya question.Romney could have made some points on that, but he looked weak and petty on it and Obama was Presidential.Very few people will disagree on that

I really don't give two ####s about the Rose Garden gotcha, but the scolding that Obama gave Romney on politicizing the issue as the crisis was unfolding was something to behold.

Is that because the administration's conduct for two weeks following might be seen as politicizing the issue, or because you think Romney and his supporters are politicizing the reaction to the administration's handling?Not sure where you stand personally, but I'm really curious as to how people sitting on the fence are interpreting this. I think this issue, and which side is seen as playing politics with it the most, has a chance to make a real impact in the final weeks leading up to the election.

Pretty fascinating to me, anyways...

My comment was about the verbal spanking, not the issue itself. On the substantive issue, I'm reserving judgment until I know more, but I would categorize my current stance as concerned about the administration's handling of the security issue. I'm less concerned about the post-event communication.

i would say you're not trying very hard to understand what happened or how the administration handled it. I knew within 48 hrs that it was a terrorist attack and posted links allowing you or anyone to learn about what was happening real time. I guarantee you Dr Detroit knew this as well. Its not like he and I are on the same page politically..the fact the administration stuck to the spontaneous eruption story, allegedly due to an obscure youtube video, put a man in jail, trotted out susan rice to hit all the sunday talk shows doubling down on this bs cover story is striking and flat out dishonest. If little old me, with an internet connection, can figure out what happened within 2 days, i guarantee you Obama and Biden knew within hours

I thought my post was clear that I'm not all that concerned about the post-event communication. What concerns me is the security issue. What could have been or should have been done to prevent the tragedy.

 

[sublimeone]

Crowley was a great choice for Barack. And he still couldn't hit a home run.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/oct/17/curl-crowley-skews-hard-obama-disastrous-debate/

She even chose this question, directed to both men: "I do attribute much of America's economic and international problems to the failings and missteps of the Bush administration. Since both of you are Republicans, I fear the return to the policies of those years should you win this election. What is the biggest difference between you and George W. Bush, and how do you differentiate yourself from George W. Bush?"

Ms. Crowley, who called Mr. Romney's selection of Rep. Paul Ryan as running mate a "ticket death wish," asserted her unilateral power at the outset, telling the audience before the cameras went on that she planned to "give the debate direction and ensure the candidates give answers to the questions."

The best line is in the comments:Obama's running game greatly benefited from his 350 pound blocker.

HFS!

 

[tommyboy]

Obama needed more than a draw tonight and he didn't get it. But I don't think it was a draw - Romney took this debate too.

You should be voting for someone else because you need a third party candidate to legalize the drugs you must be taking to conclude that.

How do you say Obama won this one? Clearly at the VERY LEAST it was a draw, but I still think Romney nailed it on the economy and jobs and that was the dagger.

The defining moment of the debate is the Libya question.Romney could have made some points on that, but he looked weak and petty on it and Obama was Presidential.Very few people will disagree on that

I really don't give two ####s about the Rose Garden gotcha, but the scolding that Obama gave Romney on politicizing the issue as the crisis was unfolding was something to behold.

Is that because the administration's conduct for two weeks following might be seen as politicizing the issue, or because you think Romney and his supporters are politicizing the reaction to the administration's handling?Not sure where you stand personally, but I'm really curious as to how people sitting on the fence are interpreting this. I think this issue, and which side is seen as playing politics with it the most, has a chance to make a real impact in the final weeks leading up to the election.

Pretty fascinating to me, anyways...

My comment was about the verbal spanking, not the issue itself. On the substantive issue, I'm reserving judgment until I know more, but I would categorize my current stance as concerned about the administration's handling of the security issue. I'm less concerned about the post-event communication.

i would say you're not trying very hard to understand what happened or how the administration handled it. I knew within 48 hrs that it was a terrorist attack and posted links allowing you or anyone to learn about what was happening real time. I guarantee you Dr Detroit knew this as well. Its not like he and I are on the same page politically..the fact the administration stuck to the spontaneous eruption story, allegedly due to an obscure youtube video, put a man in jail, trotted out susan rice to hit all the sunday talk shows doubling down on this bs cover story is striking and flat out dishonest. If little old me, with an internet connection, can figure out what happened within 2 days, i guarantee you Obama and Biden knew within hours

I thought my post was clear that I'm not all that concerned about the post-event communication. What concerns me is the security issue. What could have been or should have been done to prevent the tragedy.

do you realize the consulate was attacked previously and had requested additional security several times?

 

[cstu]

Another set of comments from Steve Landsburg. He gives the edge to Obama this time.

My wife, who really ought to have her own blog, heard only the few minutes dealing with immigration and then China and summed up the candidates’ shared position as “We sure love immigrants, but we sure hate foreigners”.

I, by contrast, slogged through the entire thing. Here are my own less brilliant comments, typed in real time while watching the debate; not edited and perhaps in some cases not sufficiently thought through:

1. Romney in a blue tie; Obama in red. Opposite of last time. Do they coordinate this?

2. Romney: “I know what it takes to create good jobs again, blah blah blah”. Okay. Are you going to tell us what “it” is?

3. Obama looking much more alive than last time.

4. Obama: “I want to build manufacturing jobs.” [Gosh darn] it, I hope Romney jumps all over this. It is not the president’s job to decide which sectors should thrive. It is, in fact, the essence of corruption.

5. Romney claims his 5-point plan creates 12 million jobs. To suggest that it is possible to make forecasts with this sort of precision is what we technically call a lie.

6. Obama going heavy on the class warfare.

7. Does Obama agree that it’s not the energy dept’s job to lower gas prices? This should be an easy “of course it’s not”.

8. Obama boasting about top-down planning of the car industry, govt setting fuel standards etc. I hope Romney jumps all over the “top-down govt” issue. Not optimistic.

9. Obama: Romney’s “got the oil and gas part but not the clean energy part”. Dammit, again, it’s not the president’s job to to “get” any of these parts. Will Romney mention this? Guess not.

10. Romney pushing energy independence. Obama unlikely to make a good case against it.

11. Crowley asks the right question: “Is it within the purview of the govt to bring gas prices down?”. Obama ignores the question.

12. Obama: “Natural gas isn’t just appearing; we’re encouraging it”. This is like Al Gore inventing the Internet. The govt does not produce natural gas.

13. Obama again with “We’re going to produce such and such a sort of cars….”. Dammit, if you want to run a car company, get a job at a car company. If you want to be president of the US, stop trying to be an auto executive.

14. Romney: If gas prices are up, then energy policy isn’t working. This is appalling. He can’t think of any legitimate reasons prices might be up?

15. Obama: “We’ve” built enough pipeline to wrap around the earth once. No, Mr. President, you didn’t build that.

16. Romney trying to walk all over the moderator, demanding time to respond to Obama; I doubt this looks good.

17. Romney reiterating that he wants a more progressive tax code (“I want middle income taxpayers to pay lower taxes”). Nobody around to make the contrary case.

18. Romney to eliminate all taxes on interest, dividends and capgains (yay!)…..but only for “middle income” taxpayers (boo!).

19. Obama says reducing govt debt is a moral obligation to the next generation. Fine. But he has also told us, in other contexts, that govt has no business enforcing morality. So how is this an argument for reducing debt?

20. Obama, who wants to run the car industry, favor manufacturing, etc etc, has the audacity to slam “top down economics”.

21. Romney wants to cut tax rates to spur small business. So—-favoring small business over big business? Is this any better than Obama favoring manufacturing?

22. More from Romney with the small business fetish. Bleh.

23. Obama calling a $5 trillion tax cut a $5 trillion “cost”. Sigh.

24. Obama descending into sheer demagoguery here: Saying Romney pays at a lower rate than laborers do, ignoring that Romeny’s income is almost all from capital, so what he’s paying are *surtaxes*.

25. I’ve lost count of the lies and illogic on both sides, but I think Obama’s a better liar; his demeanor makes him seem more believable (provided you don’t listen too hard to what he’s saying).

26. Romney once again trying to walk all over the moderator. Once again, I doubt this plays well.

27. Lily Ledbetter bill has come up; will Romney attempt to explain how horrible this legislation is? I bet not. Is this ignorance or cynicism?

28. Romney admitting that as governor he prioritized gender over qualifications when staffing his cabinet. This does not bode well for his appointments as president.

29. In the midst of a pathetic answer, Romney slips in the key point: The way to get women’s wages up is to increase the demand for labor. He got something right! (But still hasn’t explained why Obama’s approach is so wrong.)

30. Obama has the AUDACITY to accuse ROMNEY of letting politicians decide the content of insurance policies, and then segues IMMEDIATELY into advertising that HIS health care bill dictates contraceptive coverage!!!! Are there voters dumb enough to nod their heads and agree with this? Do people that dumb actually turn out to vote?

31. Asked how he differs from George Bush, Romney reiterates a bunch of stuff he said before; seems to think it’s more important to repeat the few things he practiced than to say anything new.

32. Obama says he “saved jobs” by keeping cheap Chinese tires out of US. Hope Romney mentions that we’re all paying more for tires now.

33. I don’t think Romney’s doing anything to fire up his base, and I don’t think he’s doing anything to win over independents — so I don’t think he’s doing himself any good tonight.

34. Romney giving long soliloquy on how nothing has worked; not a whole lot of content but in terms of presentation I think it’s his best moment so far.

35. Romney talks about all the advantages of legal immigration, then opposes illegal immigration despite the fact that it has all the same advantages.

36. I believe Obama has been more ruthless than Bush re deportations. Not sure this is true, but if it is, I hope Romney points it out.

37. And now Obama talks about all the advantages of legal immigration — which cries out for Romney to ask why, then, he’s been sending his jackbooted thugs all over the country to deport productively employed people. Sadly, we’re already on to different topics.

38. Obama looking very good taking offense at Romney’s intimations of his having played politics over Libya.

39. Big slip on Romney’s part saying Obama had not called the Libya attack an “act of terror” the day after the attack. Obama responds brilliantly by not contradicting Romney directly but instead saying “Please proceed, governor”, allowing Romney to dig himself deeper.

40. To repeat: Romney not, as far as I can tell, giving anyone a reason to vote for him who wasn’t going to already.

41. They’re on to gun control; my attention is flagging.

42. Obama claiming that reducing class size is an efficient way to increase economic growth. Romney should ask “Where’s the evidence?”.

43. Romney fetishizing the manufacturing sector when he ought to be bashing Obama for this fetish.

44. He used the phrase “trickle down govt” again; I like this.

45. Romney: “On day one, I will label China a currency manipulator”. I wish Obama would jump all over this. Bet he won’t.

46. Moderator: “How do you convince companies to bring manufacturing back to the US from China?” — seemingly TAKING IT AS GIVEN that this is desirable. This is really extraordinary bias on the moderator’s part.

47. Obama: “some jobs won't come back because they are low-wage, low-skilled jobs”. Yes. Applause for this.

48. Romeny gets a major softball for his final question: “What is the biggest misconception about you?”. Gets to talk about what a great guy he is.

49. Romney mentions he believes in God. Fails to mention that he also believes Joseph Smith told the truth about those tablets. Or does he?

50. Now Obama takes the same softball. Says he believes in free enterprise. Then why is he trying to run the auto industry? Or dictate women’s wages? Or run the insurance industry? Or favor the manufacturing sector? (Yes, I know I’m repeating myself.) But a lot of viewers will look right past this. He sounds, I think, very good as long as you don’t compare his rhetoric to his policies.

Generally good points, but he's obsessed with free enterprise. There are limits to what the government should be doing but there are also things the government can do that free enterprise can't.

 

[sublimeone]

I'm just glad Obama managed to work a Big Bird comment into the debate

 

[cstu]

do you realize the consulate was attacked previously and had requested additional security several times?

Do you realize no one cares?

 

[chet]

Crowley was a great choice for Barack. And he still couldn't hit a home run.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/oct/17/curl-crowley-skews-hard-obama-disastrous-debate/

She even chose this question, directed to both men: "I do attribute much of America's economic and international problems to the failings and missteps of the Bush administration. Since both of you are Republicans, I fear the return to the policies of those years should you win this election. What is the biggest difference between you and George W. Bush, and how do you differentiate yourself from George W. Bush?"

Ms. Crowley, who called Mr. Romney's selection of Rep. Paul Ryan as running mate a "ticket death wish," asserted her unilateral power at the outset, telling the audience before the cameras went on that she planned to "give the debate direction and ensure the candidates give answers to the questions."

The best line is in the comments:Obama's running game greatly benefited from his 350 pound blocker.

HFS!

 

[drummer]

do you realize the consulate was attacked previously and had requested additional security several times?

Do you realize no one cares?

tommy is doing his best to Romneyize the issue. He thinks onions don't peel.

 

[Jewell]

Fascinating debate.

The best in my adult life

 

[tommyboy]

do you realize the consulate was attacked previously and had requested additional security several times?

Do you realize no one cares?

pretty flippant comment when 4 guys are dead. I'm sure you're more concerned with Paul Ryan's dishwashing skills.

 

[drummer]

do you realize the consulate was attacked previously and had requested additional security several times?

Do you realize no one cares?

pretty flippant comment when 4 guys are dead. I'm sure you're more concerned with Paul Ryan's dishwashing skills.

I doubt you really care about them either.

 

[DoubleG]

do you realize the consulate was attacked previously and had requested additional security several times?

Do you realize no one cares?

Why do you keep saying that despite the fact that there are literally millions over voters who care. That's why it's in the news, that's why there was a question on it at the debate, that's why it was arguably the "high point" of the evening - either for the verbal spanking or the dishonesty of the comment by the President and the correction by the moderator.

 

[bigbottom]

Obama needed more than a draw tonight and he didn't get it. But I don't think it was a draw - Romney took this debate too.

You should be voting for someone else because you need a third party candidate to legalize the drugs you must be taking to conclude that.

How do you say Obama won this one? Clearly at the VERY LEAST it was a draw, but I still think Romney nailed it on the economy and jobs and that was the dagger.

The defining moment of the debate is the Libya question.Romney could have made some points on that, but he looked weak and petty on it and Obama was Presidential.Very few people will disagree on that

I really don't give two ####s about the Rose Garden gotcha, but the scolding that Obama gave Romney on politicizing the issue as the crisis was unfolding was something to behold.

Is that because the administration's conduct for two weeks following might be seen as politicizing the issue, or because you think Romney and his supporters are politicizing the reaction to the administration's handling?Not sure where you stand personally, but I'm really curious as to how people sitting on the fence are interpreting this. I think this issue, and which side is seen as playing politics with it the most, has a chance to make a real impact in the final weeks leading up to the election.

Pretty fascinating to me, anyways...

My comment was about the verbal spanking, not the issue itself. On the substantive issue, I'm reserving judgment until I know more, but I would categorize my current stance as concerned about the administration's handling of the security issue. I'm less concerned about the post-event communication.

i would say you're not trying very hard to understand what happened or how the administration handled it. I knew within 48 hrs that it was a terrorist attack and posted links allowing you or anyone to learn about what was happening real time. I guarantee you Dr Detroit knew this as well. Its not like he and I are on the same page politically..the fact the administration stuck to the spontaneous eruption story, allegedly due to an obscure youtube video, put a man in jail, trotted out susan rice to hit all the sunday talk shows doubling down on this bs cover story is striking and flat out dishonest. If little old me, with an internet connection, can figure out what happened within 2 days, i guarantee you Obama and Biden knew within hours

I thought my post was clear that I'm not all that concerned about the post-event communication. What concerns me is the security issue. What could have been or should have been done to prevent the tragedy.

do you realize the consulate was attacked previously and had requested additional security several times?

Yes. Which is why I'm concerned about the administration's handling of the issue and, despite Tim's claims to the contary, consider it a "big issue." I think we're mostly aligned on this topic, though I would like to see the results of an investigation into the incident (and there should be one) before passing judgment. Not sure why you're getting argumentative about it with me when it appears that I'm the lone liberal who thinks this is a big issue.

 

[DoubleG]

do you realize the consulate was attacked previously and had requested additional security several times?

Do you realize no one cares?

pretty flippant comment when 4 guys are dead. I'm sure you're more concerned with Paul Ryan's dishwashing skills.

I doubt you really care about them either.

You're right - he probably doesn't care about Ryan's dishwashing skills.

 

[DoubleG]

do you realize the consulate was attacked previously and had requested additional security several times?

Yes. Which is why I'm concerned about the administration's handling of the issue and, despite Tim's claims to the contary, consider it a "big issue." I think we're mostly aligned on this topic, though I would like to see the results of an investigation into the incident (and there should be one) before passing judgment. Not sure why you're getting argumentative about it with me when it appears that I'm the lone liberal who thinks this is a big issue.

It's late, he's tired, it's been a long day. I think tommyboy is confused on who is actually arguing against his point.

 

[tommyboy]

do you realize the consulate was attacked previously and had requested additional security several times?

Do you realize no one cares?

tommy is doing his best to Romneyize the issue. He thinks onions don't peel.

says that guy that got all worked up over a fake story. you're like a birther

 

[DoubleG]

Fascinating debate.

The best in my adult life

But that was so short - and I don't speak Arabic.

 

[drummer]

do you realize the consulate was attacked previously and had requested additional security several times?

Do you realize no one cares?

tommy is doing his best to Romneyize the issue. He thinks onions don't peel.

says that guy that got all worked up over a fake story. you're like a birther

I didn't get worked up over a fake story about fake Ryan. But I will call Ryan a fraud like I always have said just to get you even more worked up.

 

[dparker713]

There are very few times a bald faced lie is told in these debates. Typically the facts are open to interpretation and each side can spin the truth the way they want it spun. But with regard to the Benghazi issue, Obama made a statement that is categorically untrue. He did not call it an act of terror the day after the attack. He did not call it an act of terror a few days later when the president of Libya called it an act of terror. There is no way to spin this.

You might actually want to read the speech.

 

[tommyboy]

Yes. Which is why I'm concerned about the administration's handling of the issue and, despite Tim's claims to the contary, consider it a "big issue." I think we're mostly aligned on this topic, though I would like to see the results of an investigation into the incident (and there should be one) before passing judgment. Not sure why you're getting argumentative about it with me when it appears that I'm the lone liberal who thinks this is a big issue.

my apology, i didn't mean to be argumentative with you i misunderstood your statement previously when you referred to the security issue, i read that as an all encompassing big S, security., Your response made it more clear to me that you meant about the actual on ground security, so my follow up question was just to guage where you are at on the story, we are on the same page.

 

[sublimeone]

do you realize the consulate was attacked previously and had requested additional security several times?

Do you realize no one cares?

Why do you keep saying that despite the fact that there are literally millions over voters who care. That's why it's in the news, that's why there was a question on it at the debate, that's why it was arguably the "high point" of the evening - either for the verbal spanking or the dishonesty of the comment by the President and the correction by the moderator.

What do you say when you don't have a leg to stand on? As you correctly pointed out, of course people care, otherwise it wouldn't have been a question in the debate tonight. This could be bad for Obama. People were aware but I don't think the details of the Libya situation were mainstream... with all the attention tonights question is sure to get in the coming days it could become a much bigger issue to deal with.

 

[Mister CIA]

do you realize the consulate was attacked previously and had requested additional security several times?

Do you realize no one cares?

Why do you keep saying that despite the fact that there are literally millions over voters who care. That's why it's in the news, that's why there was a question on it at the debate, that's why it was arguably the "high point" of the evening - either for the verbal spanking or the dishonesty of the comment by the President and the correction by the moderator.

Pretty sure Obama can neutralize these voters with a promise to subsidize extra servings of Jell-o.

 

[md8]

We need 2 moderators for the debates. One Democrat and one Republican. I wish Gary Johnson would have been in this. Doubt his lawsuit will get him any where but still.

I've thought this for years. I think it's a little silly to have one mod, because chances are they will favor one of the candidates, even if they try not to.

 

[bigbottom]

So back to the beginning of the debate. Do the top 25% of high schoolgrads in Massachusetts really get four years of college tuition paid for? That's crazy awesome. Is Romney pitching that deal for the country?

 

[DoubleG]

There are very few times a bald faced lie is told in these debates. Typically the facts are open to interpretation and each side can spin the truth the way they want it spun. But with regard to the Benghazi issue, Obama made a statement that is categorically untrue. He did not call it an act of terror the day after the attack. He did not call it an act of terror a few days later when the president of Libya called it an act of terror. There is no way to spin this.

You might actually want to read the speech.

The Presisdent's comment did not claim in the 10th paragraph of the 13 paragraph speech on 9/12/12 that the attack was an act of terror. Candy Crowley has already conceded and verified that Romney was correct in the general point...but hey, you're entitled to keep implying that everyone else is wrong (even those that side with Obama most of the time).

 

[sublimeone]

There are very few times a bald faced lie is told in these debates. Typically the facts are open to interpretation and each side can spin the truth the way they want it spun. But with regard to the Benghazi issue, Obama made a statement that is categorically untrue. He did not call it an act of terror the day after the attack. He did not call it an act of terror a few days later when the president of Libya called it an act of terror. There is no way to spin this.

You might actually want to read the speech.

He did not call the attack an act of terror,

 

[DoubleG]

So back to the beginning of the debate. Do the top 25% of high schoolgrads in Massachusetts really get four years of college tuition paid for? That's crazy awesome. Is Romney pitching that deal for the country?

I also ran up the stairs to tell wy wife about the NO capital gains and interest income tax (yes, sadly, we are under the $200,000 threshold - so would qualify for the no tax).