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Pro Sports - How much do you care? (1 Viewer)

K

kface

Footballguy
I was reading this article in the Atlantic

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2017/06/will-years-of-losing-make-the-philadelphia-76ers-winners/531393/

Basically how the 76ers have been publically tanking for the last 5 years to build a great roster.  Two things struck me in this article

1. They sold more season tickets this year than ever.  After tanking for 5 straight years how can you even be a 76ers fan?  This seems like a disturbing thing to do to me.  It seems though, I see it more and more in here and elsewhere, that people have gotten to the point the sport doesn't matter anymore, it's all about their team and nothing else.

2. The comment that you can't win in the NBA without a superstar.  It's one of the reasons I won't watch baseball or the nba because it's true.  It's also one of the reason I watch the nfl because of the parity (which at some point will end I predict).  On the other hand the moment the NFL had britney spears as the half time show a decade ago I stopped caring so much.  You go into the NBA season or MLB season and 90% of teams know they have zero chance.  

So it got me thinking that everyone in here is sports fans more or less so it's a good group to ask.  What do you think of the evolution of pro sports?  Does it make you watch it more or less?

 
The NHL Penguins used a similar model several years back to get superstars Malkin and Crosby, right?  That seems to have worked out well for them, and as far as I can tell the fan base is as strong as ever. 

 
Jaysus said:
The NHL Penguins used a similar model several years back to get superstars Malkin and Crosby, right?  That seems to have worked out well for them, and as far as I can tell the fan base is as strong as ever. 
Click to expand...
So the question becomes are you fine with a league where 80% of the teams choose to suck for a decade on the hope that your team is the one that strikes it rich?  I look at the 76ers roster and i don't see a great team there.

 
I don't watch pro sports as much as I used to because I got older and several things come into play:

1) time - I have less of it

2) perspective, priorities - I just find other things more important 

3) whereas you might have had sort of a wish fulfillment/fantasy thing going on when you're younger about being able to do those things the guys are doing, you now absolutely, positively know you can't -- you can't even put on socks, as Louis CK would say

The tanking doesn't bother me as much as some, but sports and the way they are covered are a little different than they once were. It seems more salacious, more personal, more branded (not that it always wasn't, it just seems more so these days)

 
rockaction said:
I don't watch pro sports as much as I used to because I got older and several things come into play:

1) time - I have less of it

2) perspective, priorities - I just find other things more important 

3) whereas you might have had sort of a wish fulfillment/fantasy thing going on when you're younger about being able to do those things the guys are doing, you now absolutely, positively know you can't -- you can't even put on socks, as Louis CK would say

The tanking doesn't bother me as much as some, but sports and the way they are covered are a little different than they once were. It seems more salacious, more personal, more branded (not that it always wasn't, it just seems more so these days)
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I agree with your points (and nice Louis Ck reference!)

As I question Jaysus above though, if the majority of teams play the season intentionally sucking i would think it would turn most sports fans off.  It wouldn't turn off the people that are part of the cult of personality that is fandom but for people that like sports???

 
I care a lot more when they are good and winning. When they suck I'll still pay attention, listen in the car or have it on in the background, but there is a lot of other stuff to do with my time.

 
killface said:
I agree with your points (and nice Louis Ck reference!)

As I question Jaysus above though, if the majority of teams play the season intentionally sucking i would think it would turn most sports fans off.  It wouldn't turn off the people that are part of the cult of personality that is fandom but for people that like sports???
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I agree, but I don't think the majority try to suck because the middle of drafts is often a crapshoot in terms of finding a franchise guy. 

I'm a Jets fan and we're tanking the year. Do I like it? Nope. The question becomes: Is the system structured to where it needs to be done to be competitive?

I personally don't think so. I think it's a cop-out that bad organizations use to make excuses for their own ineptitude. 

But one or two teams sort of tanking bothers me less than some. I do not like what the 76ers did and will gleefully root against them in the years to come.  That sort of pushed it, as far as I'm concerned.  

 
if i ain't bettin' , i ain't sweatin'

coin gotta be on the line for me - if not - i honestly couldn't give one flyin' fiddler's ####  :shrug:

 
rockaction said:
I agree, but I don't think the majority try to suck because the middle of drafts is often a crapshoot in terms of finding a franchise guy. 

I'm a Jets fan and we're tanking the year. Do I like it? Nope. The question becomes: Is the system structured to where it needs to be done to be competitive?

I personally don't think so. I think it's a cop-out that bad organizations use to make excuses for their own ineptitude. 

But one or two teams sort of tanking bothers me less than some. I do not like what the 76ers did and will gleefully root against them in the years to come.  That sort of pushed it, as far as I'm concerned.  
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The concern would be that the more it works, the more you will see it happen.  There is no doubt, when you look at the nba, there are only two routes to power.  Pay the salary cap tax for being over and build a team of superstars or draft lebron james.  Everyone else is middle ground and stands no chance

There has been chatter that the NFL may consider going to a lottery draft which i think would be helpful.  I think every league should a have a very tight salary cap as well with no exceptions.  

I used to enjoy the NBA a lot, saw a ton of games up until my 30s.  I can't stand it anymore though.  

 
killface said:
The concern would be that the more it works, the more you will see it happen.  There is no doubt, when you look at the nba, there are only two routes to power.  Pay the salary cap tax for being over and build a team of superstars or draft lebron james.  Everyone else is middle ground and stands no chance

There has been chatter that the NFL may consider going to a lottery draft which i think would be helpful.  I think every league should a have a very tight salary cap as well with no exceptions.  

I used to enjoy the NBA a lot, saw a ton of games up until my 30s.  I can't stand it anymore though.  
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I stopped caring about the NBA long ago because it's purely a superstar-dominated league and what you said seems exactly correct. I think baseball is a little different, as are football and hockey. Really the two I even have scant knowledge of (and I mean scant) are hockey and football. 

I think right now that hockey is my favorite because of the playoffs and just the flow of the game.  

 
killface said:
I was reading this article in the Atlantic

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2017/06/will-years-of-losing-make-the-philadelphia-76ers-winners/531393/

Basically how the 76ers have been publically tanking for the last 5 years to build a great roster.  Two things struck me in this article

1. They sold more season tickets this year than ever.  After tanking for 5 straight years how can you even be a 76ers fan?  This seems like a disturbing thing to do to me.  It seems though, I see it more and more in here and elsewhere, that people have gotten to the point the sport doesn't matter anymore, it's all about their team and nothing else.

2. The comment that you can't win in the NBA without a superstar.  It's one of the reasons I won't watch baseball or the nba because it's true.  It's also one of the reason I watch the nfl because of the parity (which at some point will end I predict).  On the other hand the moment the NFL had britney spears as the half time show a decade ago I stopped caring so much.  You go into the NBA season or MLB season and 90% of teams know they have zero chance.  

So it got me thinking that everyone in here is sports fans more or less so it's a good group to ask.  What do you think of the evolution of pro sports?  Does it make you watch it more or less?
Click to expand...
There's much more parity in baseball than football

 
rockaction said:
I stopped caring about the NBA long ago because it's purely a superstar-dominated league and what you said seems exactly correct. I think baseball is a little different, as are football and hockey. Really the two I even have scant knowledge of (and I mean scant) are hockey and football. 

I think right now that hockey is my favorite because of the playoffs and just the flow of the game.  
Click to expand...
I always watch the NHL playoffs because it's really about who makes the spectacular saves and anyone has a chance really.  

 
Capella said:
That was the first halftime show? 
Click to expand...
It wasn't the first half time show obviously.  I feel like your being intentionally difficult here.

It was the moment the nfl decided that it wasn't about the sport, that they had to draw in everyone to watch it as entertainment.  

 
killface said:
It wasn't the first half time show obviously.  I feel like your being intentionally difficult here.

It was the moment the nfl decided that it wasn't about the sport, that they had to draw in everyone to watch it as entertainment.  
Click to expand...
It was just a halftime show man. No different than any other one they did 15 years before it, other than you don't like the performer (I assume). 

 
Capella said:
It was just a halftime show man. No different than any other one they did 15 years before it, other than you don't like the performer (I assume). 
Click to expand...
Give me a break, you are either young or you're being difficult.  If you can't see the difference between the halftime shows 20 years ago and the halftime shows now you either weren't watching or you are just being dumb for the sake of it.  

 
You claim you need a superstar to win in the NBA (which is true). How many AFC Super Bowl teams in the last 10 years have their been without Tom Brady or Peyton Manning?

 
shadyridr said:
You claim you need a superstar to win in the NBA (which is true). How many AFC Super Bowl teams in the last 10 years have their been without Tom Brady or Peyton Manning?
Click to expand...
4

but you did one of those things where you intentionally left off the nfc which has won the superbowl a number of times in the last 10 years without a superstar qb and had a good amount of parity in who the representative has been.  

 
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rockaction said:
Sport. There's a difference. People want to make them the same, but pure sport is just that -- sport.  
Click to expand...
I guess I always viewed it as entertaiment, which is why I never cared much about tanking, cheating, halftime shows, or players not being role models. 

 
Yeah, I'm not sure that four QBs in ten years is that bad, actually. From one conference.  

And what about the NFC? 

 
shadyridr said:
exactly. You need a superstar to win in the NBA and you need a superstar QB to win in the NFL
Click to expand...
What?  From the nfc it was ryan, wilson, kaepernick, newton, manning jr etc...

You need a good qb to win in the nfl, not a superstar.

 
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KarmaPolice said:
I guess I always viewed it as entertaiment, which is why I never cared much about tanking, cheating, halftime shows, or players not being role models. 
Click to expand...
Yeah, that's fair, especially pro sports, which have to entertain to keep the money flowing in.  

FTR, I see Capella's point and don't really care about the halftime shows or pro sports trying to entertain the crowd. 

But pure sport exists.  It's leisure time or training for war, but pure sport has been there for a long time in the form of amateur games.  

 
killface said:
Give me a break, you are either young or you're being difficult.  If you can't see the difference between the halftime shows 20 years ago and the halftime shows now you either weren't watching or you are just being dumb for the sake of it.  
Click to expand...
Michael Jackson basically shot out of the top of the stadium. You're just remembering what you want to remember. 

 
shadyridr said:
exactly. You need a superstar to win in the NBA and you need a superstar QB to win in the NFL
Click to expand...
Maybe I'm being obtuse, shady, but it seems like four quarterbacks in ten years isn't so bad, especially when three of them are dominant HOFers.  I could just be wrong this and forgiving the NFL for things I wouldn't forgive the NBA for. 

 
rockaction said:
Maybe I'm being obtuse, shady, but it seems like four quarterbacks in ten years isn't so bad, especially when three of them are dominant HOFers.  I could just be wrong this and forgiving the NFL for things I wouldn't forgive the NBA for. 
Click to expand...
its 4 guys in 14 years or put another way 3 guys in 13 years plus Joe Flacco lol

 
Capella said:
Michael Jackson basically shot out of the top of the stadium. You're just remembering what you want to remember. 
Click to expand...
Certainly, MJ was probably the first time it really changed...I point at Spears because it was the decision to target to a specific crowd that has nothing to do with the nfl as a sport.  

And too each their own.  I am just stating my case for why i have lost interest and was interested in other people's thoughts.

THere is no doubt with the current mentality it is very profitable to tank for half a decade and hope you build a winner.  There is no doubt having the guy with the gold teeth, dating a super model is good for your merchandise sales.

 
I agree with the NBA sentiment. I was just disagreeing that:
 

A) NFL has more parity than MLB. This is simply not true anymore. Maybe it was before 2000.

B) You need to build a complete roster in the NFL. Which is not untrue but I was just pointing out that having a superstar QB is really rule #1 for winning in the NFL.

 
shadyridr said:
its 4 guys in 14 years or put another way 3 guys in 13 years plus Joe Flacco lol
Click to expand...
But those 4 guys didn't win it always in those 14 years.  Leaving out the NFC component seems a little obtuse

And i think everyone agrees, that while brady is great, so is Rodgers (I would argue he is better than Brady) but he hasn't made that many appearances because his coaching and his team don't compete with the Patriots.  So while a qb certainly gives you a leg up you need a strong team and gameplan to win.  

 
I don't have the time anymore to devote hours upon hours having the entire Yankee organization memorized down to A ball, know every college the guys on the Giants went to, watch every Rangers game like the ice is all important and have never cared for the NBA.  My fourth sport is NASCAR or golf, and both while I love to watch I just don't have the time on Sunday's to devote to them.

I won't challenge your opinion on what the Super Bowl halftime show means because you are entitled to it.  I disagree with it though...Michael Jackson did a halftime show in 1993.  It's always been an entertainment aspect of the big show of the final game, and the show will get bigger and staged more and more and more.  That doesn't define the game so much as the specific event that the Super Bowl itself has become.

 
I mostly just a homer fan for the most part.

Football - I remain naively hopeful that the Browns will be good again one day.  I still go to the games regularly.  Watch all others on TV.  Still follow other teams for fantasy purposes and will watch other games when the Browns aren't on including Mon,Thu...

Baseball - Indians fan...only go to a handful of games each year but watch several on TV. ..also go to one or two Akron (AA) games each season

Basketball - Peripheral Cavs fan.  Mostly get interested at playoff time...Don't go to games  (2 in last 5 years) and watch only a handful on TV.

Hockey - Don't watch at all. (no local team...couple hours from Columbus and Pittsburgh, I guess, but never grabbed my interest

Soccer - Don't watch at all

 
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Here's mine:

MLB- I love it. My favorite sport. Try and catch every Yankee game possible

NFL- I love it for fantasy football reasons only and watch religiously every Sunday. If it wasnt for fantasy football I wouldnt bother with it as much (just watch the big games)

NBA- maybe Ill watch the finals and thats it

NHL- was never a fan

 
I follow my teams fairly closely during the regular seasons and of course during the playoffs but I don't get affected as much as I used to when they are eliminated. Just doesn't seem like a big deal like it was when I was younger. The only sport I follow even after my team is eliminated if football. I watch all the playoffs and SB every year. I never watch playoffs once the Mets and NY Rangers are out and only watch the series they are involved in.

 
I guess I'll play 

MLB: watch probably 15% of the Rays when cooking dinner, working out etc but follow them pretty closely on twitter, online etc. If they are getting blown out I switch it off. Can't even remember the last time I watched a non-Rays MLB game. Just horrible to sit through. 

NBA: hardly watch the Magic at all but again, follow closely online. Don't watch much regular season NBA but enjoy the playoffs a lot. Best off the court league - constant comedy. 

NFL: watch the Bucs and the rest of the league the most. Love it. 

NHL: Lightning season ticket holders and it's a good way to bond with wife. Both big fans. Don't watch any other NHL till the playoffs but watch almost every Bolts game. 

Not pro but I obsessively watch FSU football and college football. My favorite sport. Watch as much as I can stuff in. 

 
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rockaction said:
Yeah, that's fair, especially pro sports, which have to entertain to keep the money flowing in.  

FTR, I see Capella's point and don't really care about the halftime shows or pro sports trying to entertain the crowd. 

But pure sport exists.  It's leisure time or training for war, but pure sport has been there for a long time in the form of amateur games.  
Click to expand...
Oh for sure. 

IMO it moves away from that as soon as it's on TV, popular, and/or requires advertising revenue.  Then it turns into the realm of a TV or movie for me.  At that time it's going to be all about getting eyeballs on the screen, and a lot less about the purity of the sport.  Then we see halftime shows to get younger people interested, rule changes to unnaturally pump up the scores, rules to protect one position more than others, etc.. 

 
Yeah, I'll go, but mine are all time-dependent. 

NBA: Will watch the late-night playoff games and finals, other than that, haven't been a fan since the Bulls. Used to love the Lakers-Celtics as a kid. Loved Jordan. Also had friends that were into it in the early nineties, so it was natural to watch. Least favorite of the big four. 

NHL: Will watch the playoffs fairly religiously, used to watch everything fairly religiously. Right now, favorite sport.  

MLB: in the late '90s and the aughts up until around 2012, this was my go-to. I adored this sport. Now I find it interminable. Third favorite. 

NFL: Watch every Sunday, up until this past year or two, where it seems like I can't get up the interest. Watched the playoffs and SB, though. For sure.  Second favorite. 

 
I see a couple people saying they care less or have less time as they get older. I've had the opposite experience. I used to go out 4-5 nights a week to bars or on dates and travel all the time on weekends and whatnot. Now that I have a wife and kids and I'm in my 40s, I'm home all the time. Watching pro sports in the evenings and going to a game every couple weeks is my primary down time activity.  And when the kids get a little order and they're staying up past the second inning/end of the first quarter it'll hopefully be something we can do together.

 
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