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QB Carson Wentz, MIN (2 Viewers)

Amazing fall. Says a lot if Reich's giving up after year one. Was game manager all year before falling flat on his face vs Jax.

Not sure the direction they go w/o a first if this Wentz news is true. I mean I'm sure one might be able to argue but I'm not sure I could name 32 better QBs.

It is unquestionably embarrassing Colts missed playoffs on the back of Taylor/D/Oline. 

 
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JohnnyU said:
ESPN's Chris Mortensen reports Carson Wentz will "'probably" be traded or released before the start of the new league year.

The new league year is when Wentz's $15 million base salary becomes fully guaranteed. Wentz's future in Indy looks "bleak," according to Mortensen, which doesn't come as a surprise given how the Colts' season ended and the lack of support Wentz has received this offseason. Wentz is unlikely to draw interest on the trade market and the Colts will be taking a $13.3 million dead money hit if they release him in March.
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Blurb writer seems to have the contract details incorrect unless Sportrac/Overthecap is wrong, $15M of his 2022 salary is already guaranteed. The remaining $7M becomes guaranteed a day or two after the start of the new league year along with a $6M roster bonus. The $13.3M figure is the cap savings if he is cut.

As you said, I can’t see anyone trading for a $28M guaranteed 1 year contract unless it involves the Colts sending a pick along with him ala Oswieler. Then again, maybe someone pulls a Bill O’Brien.  :lol:

 
Buckna said:
Blurb writer seems to have the contract details incorrect unless Sportrac/Overthecap is wrong, $15M of his 2022 salary is already guaranteed. The remaining $7M becomes guaranteed a day or two after the start of the new league year along with a $6M roster bonus. The $13.3M figure is the cap savings if he is cut.

As you said, I can’t see anyone trading for a $28M guaranteed 1 year contract unless it involves the Colts sending a pick along with him ala Oswieler. Then again, maybe someone pulls a Bill O’Brien.  :lol:
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I agree with your take.  Irsay came out and said its not about the money either, so this pressure to release him by mid March seems driven by the media. Not to say they decided he isn't the QB of the future, but Irsay doesn't seem to care about the money.

 
JohnnyU said:
:unsure:
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Wentz has more good play in his career than Jimmy G, is slightly younger, likely cheaper to acquire, and had a lot less to work with this season than Jimmy G did.

Despite Taylor's presence, the Colts OL was worse(health related) than SF's, the playcalling was worse, and the weapons were significantly worse(Pittman would be the #3 at best in SF)

The only point in Jimmy G's favor, is that he seems more well liked by teammates. 

 
JohnnyU said:
Colts sure as hell won’t be able to trade him.
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Normally I would say there could be some creative way to move a guy if the team was desperate enough, but in this case you're right. No team is going to be willing to take on Wentz' $28 million cap hit, as very few teams have enough cap space . . . and then they'd have Wentz. I would usually suggest an atypical trade where the Colts might pony up some of the money and add a sweetener to make it worthwhile for the acquiring team (say Wentz and a 2nd for a 4th). But I just don't see it.

 
I know this is a bit  :tinfoilhat: , but I wouldn’t be surprised to see them cut Wentz and roll with Ehlinger or a FA cast-off like Tyrod so they can have a shot at drafting one of Stroud or Young next year.

 
Buckna said:
I know this is a bit  :tinfoilhat: , but I wouldn’t be surprised to see them cut Wentz and roll with Ehlinger or a FA cast-off like Tyrod so they can have a shot at drafting one of Stroud or Young next year.
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Worked twice before for them - why be mediocre. 

As for Wentz - very concerning if Reich couldnt fix him - on its face the numbers werent terrible and as said here, its likely he gets a starting job somewhere for one more shot.  This was the best situation for him and he whiffed.  

 
Kiddnets said:
Worked twice before for them - why be mediocre. 

As for Wentz - very concerning if Reich couldnt fix him - on its face the numbers werent terrible and as said here, its likely he gets a starting job somewhere for one more shot.  This was the best situation for him and he whiffed.  
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Yep, that’s what’s most concerning. The guy who was the main architect of the offense from Wentz’s best season couldn’t turn him into anything close to the guy from 2017. 

While the aggregate numbers for Wentz were better in 2021 vs 2020, many of his worst blunders came at the worst times, suggesting he crumbles in the most crucial situations. That more than anything is what is going to keep the price for him down.

 
15 mill? isnt that cheap for a starting QB?

I know he isnt that great, but what are they going to do? 

The owner isnt above tanking for a pick, but that team is too good to tank and get a QB the following year.

 
Unless they've got something in the bag, I guess i'll believe it when I see it. And I'm firmly on the side of he deserves every bit of criticism not getting the team to playoffs with Taylor/Oline/D and not great Reich's already wanting to cut bait (if true). The 2021 was the absolute worst possible result (lost 1st rounder / didn't make playoffs)

The one thing I can only think of is: attitude / likeability as a teammate/to work with that they've completely soured on him this fast in a span of less than a year. (Yes he fell on face vs. Jacksonville & was game manager most of year). But I'm looking around and wondering if they're really contenders for Wilson/Rodgers and I suppose Watson. I just question them having any shot of that w/o a 1st.  I just see lateral move otherwise.

 
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bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
15 mill? isnt that cheap for a starting QB?

I know he isnt that great, but what are they going to do? 

The owner isnt above tanking for a pick, but that team is too good to tank and get a QB the following year.
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It was explained in a post by @Buckna above but $15 million is his guaranteed salary regardless. If he is on the roster in the new league year his cap number is $28 million.

 
JohnnyU said:
I like Ballard as a GM and he has made some really good draft picks, but he messed up with Wentz.
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I know Ballard is the GM and the buck stops with him - but you know Reich lobbied hard for Wentz and assured Ballard that he could fix him and get the MVP contender Wentz for cheap.  

Wentz started the year hurt and should have missed a few games - never really got in synch.  As said above - the numbers werent bad at all.....but he made some really bad plays/decisions -in big spots.  

I still think hes a solid bridge QB and will get one more shot but Indy will either need to cut him or take a much worse comp package.  Sunk cost - if Reich thinks he's toast then move on.  

 
The Indianapolis Star's Nate Atkins said the Colts would likely have to restructure Carson Wentz's contract if they trade him this offseason. 

Without a restructure, a team acquiring Wentz would have to absorb a gut-wrenching $28 million cap hit for 2022 -- quite the chunk of change for a quarterback who might not be starting-caliber. The Colts, in other words, will have to eat at least some of Wentz's bloated contract if they want to part ways. ESPN's Chris Mortensen reported last week that Wentz will "probably" be traded or released at the start of the league's new year in mid-March. Dealing Wentz will be a complicated needle to thread for the Colts. "Of course, [a trade] would require Wentz to be on board, which might require him signing off on the new destination," Atkins said. 

SOURCE: IndyStar.com

Feb 15, 2022, 10:17 AM ET
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The Athletic's Bob Kravitz said it would be "virtually impossible" for the Colts to bring back Carson Wentz in 2022. 

Kravitz, a columnist who has covered the Colts for many years, said Wentz is "as good as gone" before his $15 million base salary becomes full guaranteed in March. The refusal to commit to Wentz by head coach Frank Reich, general manager Chris Ballard, and team owner Jim Irsay have made it "impossible" for the team to hang on to Wentz for the 2022 season, Kravitz said. Wentz's refusal to be vaccinated against COVID-19 may have played a factor in the team souring on the QB, Kravitz said. His COVID-related absence during preparations for a critical late-season game against the Raiders didn't sit well with the team. "The Colts can’t afford to run it back with Wentz, who never inspired all that much confidence of his teammates and his bosses during his time in Indy. Bring him back and you’re courting full-scale disaster," Kravitz said. The Colts won't have an easy time finding a team desperate enough to absorb Wentz's contract this offseason. 

SOURCE: The Athletic 

Feb 18, 2022, 9:42 AM ET
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That team has so much talent on both sides of the ball - they are truly a QB away from contending.

I have no idea who that QB is going to be, but the Colts would be wise to figure it out.

I was sightly optimistic that they could turn Wentz around, but man - that guy just isn’t the same. 

 
JohnnyU said:
I like Ballard as a GM and he has made some really good draft picks, but he messed up with Wentz.
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I dont think he did. Easy to judge after the fact...but a 1st rounder at a chance for a QB with Wentz's potential was a good risk. Yea, it didn't work out - but you had Reich, the guy that was the OC for Wentz's MVP caliber year. You hoped last year was a fluke (which it was, he wasnt as bad as 2020 this past season). I'd say the risk/reward was absolutely there to take. You even had an out if he really sucked or got hurt that the 1st only became a 2nd.

 
I wouldnt be shocked to see a team trade for Wentz, but it wont be a high pick.  Maybe a 5th rounder or something...  But again if there's not a huge demand, they might wait it out and try to get Wentz on a cheap prove it deal.

 
Amazing the difference in perception (and standing in franchises) between Wentz and Ryan Tannehill.

Wentz was the best QB in that division in 2021. He just must be really really disliked as a person/teammate. I'd take Wentz over Tannehill w/o hesitation in terms of skill.

 
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Craig_MiamiFL said:
Amazing the difference in perception (and standing in franchises) between Wentz and Ryan Tannehill.

Wentz was the best QB in that division in 2021. He just must be really really disliked as a person/teammate. I'd take Wentz over Tannehill w/o hesitation in terms of skill.
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Wentz is/was certainly worse than Tannehill both in 2021 and overall. Wentz threw fewer INT's this year, and that is about all he did better. They both had 28 TDs, and Tannehill had more yards and a higher completion % and YPA. Tannehill also did that without having his best players around him for half the season. How would Wentz had fared if Taylor and Pittman had both been out half the year?

I think Wentz is a low end starting QB. He's good enough to win with, but not good enough to win because of. Tannehill is much better than that, and while his stats may not have been impressive this season(they were among the best in 19-20), he led his team to the #1 seed with little around him for half the year.

Unless somebody falls in the draft, its tough to see where Indy could upgrade however. They don't seem to have the ammo to get Rodgers/Wilson, and I doubt Houston would trade them Watson. 

 
Craig_MiamiFL said:
Amazing the difference in perception (and standing in franchises) between Wentz and Ryan Tannehill.

Wentz was the best QB in that division in 2021. He just must be really really disliked as a person/teammate. I'd take Wentz over Tannehill w/o hesitation in terms of skill.
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It is indeed. And agree would take Wentz over Tannehill.

Colts have decided to parts ways apparently. Unfortunately the Titans can not this offseason. Little doubt they would if it were possible. The time is getting closer as they're not going anywhere with Tannehill behind center and like Wentz in their season deciding games, he was the reason they lost.

 
travdogg said:
Wentz is/was certainly worse than Tannehill both in 2021 and overall. Wentz threw fewer INT's this year, and that is about all he did better. They both had 28 TDs, and Tannehill had more yards and a higher completion % and YPA. Tannehill also did that without having his best players around him for half the season. How would Wentz had fared if Taylor and Pittman had both been out half the year?

I think Wentz is a low end starting QB. He's good enough to win with, but not good enough to win because of. Tannehill is much better than that, and while his stats may not have been impressive this season(they were among the best in 19-20), he led his team to the #1 seed with little around him for half the year.

Unless somebody falls in the draft, its tough to see where Indy could upgrade however. They don't seem to have the ammo to get Rodgers/Wilson, and I doubt Houston would trade them Watson. 
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I like Tannehill better as well...you get the vibe his teammates are all in on him and while there is not a stat on that it is a priority to be a good QB in the NFL...the fact that Indy appears willing to move on from Wentz after 1 year, without any clear path to an upgrade and while he is playing for a Coach who knows him better than anyone is very telling...something is really off when him and I get the feeling the rest of his career will become that of a journeyman QB who no team will commit to as I can't see him ever being in a better spot than he is at Indy and that apparently has not worked out.

 
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Bears_Man2 said:
It is indeed. And agree would take Wentz over Tannehill.

Colts have decided to parts ways apparently. Unfortunately the Titans can not this offseason. Little doubt they would if it were possible. The time is getting closer as they're not going anywhere with Tannehill behind center and like Wentz in their season deciding games, he was the reason they lost.
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I'm not the biggest Tannehill supporter, but at least he lost to the eventual AFC champions in a close game after leading his team to the #1 seed in the AFC. Wentz couldn't beat the Raiders and then got stomped by the lowly Jags to shockingly miss the playoffs entirely.

 
Moving on from Wentz is just a soundbite without the context of who they are moving on to. They should have been play-off team last year so unless they can get a clear upgrade, they're probably just disrupting the offence by shuffling QBs around.

 
habsfan said:
Moving on from Wentz is just a soundbite without the context of who they are moving on to. They should have been play-off team last year so unless they can get a clear upgrade, they're probably just disrupting the offence by shuffling QBs around.
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Imagine how good they’d be with Russel Wilson. Scary good. 

 
Craig_MiamiFL said:
Wentz was the best QB in that division in 2021. He just must be really really disliked as a person/teammate. I'd take Wentz over Tannehill w/o hesitation in terms of skill.
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🤔

Wentz: 62.4% comp, 3563 yards, 27:7 TD:INT. He rushed 3x for 17 yards & 0 TD. He fumbled 8x, losing 5 of them.

Total TD:Turnover 27:12

Tannehill: 67.23% comp, 3734 yards, 21:14 TD:Int.He rushed 55x for 270 yards and 7 TDs. He fumbled 10x, losing 4.
total TD:Turnover = 28:18

Tannehill’s Ints are also a little bit deceptive, as he had a 4 interception game against Houston. Not saying that game didn’t count, but that a large number of them came in 1 game. Otherwise he had 6 games with 1 Int, and 2 games with 2 Ints. Wentz’s prolific fumbles seem to offset Tannehill’s extra Turnovers, and Tannehill’s rushing yards & TDs were an element completely lacking in Wentz’s game. 

Tennehill won 12 games, made the playoffs. Wentz won 9, missed the playoffs in a brutal loss to Jacksonville where he managed a putrid 17 completions for 185 yards, 1:1 with the playoffs on the line. The worst team in the division (that you say Wentz was the best QB in) knocked them out of the playoffs. 

Neither had a great season, but I’d take Tannehill over Wentz by a lot. He was the best QB in that division. Higher completion %, fewer fumbles, more rushing yards, more total TDs, and a better winning %. Easy call. 

 
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JetMaxx said:
Insights on Wentz from the best Eagles’ beat writer
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Good article.

IMO Wentz’s issues are between his ears.

Looking back at pre-injury Eagles Wentz, he looked like the next Favruh, but in a good way. The escapability & ability to improvise under duress was Mahomsian before Mahomes was Mahomes.

What changed? 

Is he shell shocked? Is he not processing what he sees? 

I also believe there’s a good QB in there somewhere, but man it’s gonna be hard to excavate him from the trash pile that’s been wearing a number 2 jersey on Sundays. 

 
Craig_MiamiFL said:
Amazing the difference in perception (and standing in franchises) between Wentz and Ryan Tannehill.

Wentz was the best QB in that division in 2021. He just must be really really disliked as a person/teammate. I'd take Wentz over Tannehill w/o hesitation in terms of skill.
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That's it.

 
How much is “vaccine” related?  
It sounds like he is abrasive re: vaccine status and that “me” and not team focused is a big part. 

 
Birdie048 said:
How much is “vaccine” related?  
It sounds like he is abrasive re: vaccine status and that “me” and not team focused is a big part. 
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I read that due to his vaccine status he wasn't part of some end of season meetings and that was really what rubbed the team the wrong way to decide to move on.  

I don't think the vaccine status is what they cared about, but how that related to team preparation. 

 
smbkrypt24 said:
I read that due to his vaccine status he wasn't part of some end of season meetings and that was really what rubbed the team the wrong way to decide to move on.  

I don't think the vaccine status is what they cared about, but how that related to team preparation. 
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Yeah, he reportedly missed most of the week of practice the last week before the Jags game.

Teammates weren’t too keen on that. It’s a very me-first attitude in a team sport.  These guys put everything on the line & he wasn’t there. And they lost because of it.

hard to imagine Wentz winning over that locker room as a leader. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Good article.

IMO Wentz’s issues are between his ears.

Looking back at pre-injury Eagles Wentz, he looked like the next Favruh, but in a good way. The escapability & ability to improvise under duress was Mahomsian before Mahomes was Mahomes.

What changed? 

Is he shell shocked? Is he not processing what he sees? 

I also believe there’s a good QB in there somewhere, but man it’s gonna be hard to excavate him from the trash pile that’s been wearing a number 2 jersey on Sundays. 
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I would agree that Wentz's biggest issues are mental, but the bolded is really pushing it in my opinion. Wentz was never anywhere near as physically talented as Favre or especially Mahomes. I think its been said so often that its become almost a tall tale, that if Wentz doesn't get hurt in 2017 he's the MVP. I don't know where that idea got started but its 100% untrue. He was leading the league in TDs when he got hurt, but wasn't in the top-7 in any other category. 

Honestly, Wentz was never better than a good QB. Nothing wrong with being a good QB, its better than he's regarded now, but the pendulum has probably swung too far because of the memories of what he was in 2017, even if he really hasn't fallen as far as he has perceived to. Maybe I've just had a different opinion of him all along, but I thought he performed as expected in 2021, he was much better than he was in 2020, and pretty much the same as he was in 2019. 

I'm starting to think if the price is right, a return to Pennsylvania would make a lot of sense. I mean, the Colts should probably keep him, but if not, there should be suitors. Assuming Rodgers, Watson, and Wilson either stay put, or aren't available to a team looking to upgrade at QB, Wentz is arguably the next best option. Wentz is one of the 25 best QBs in the NFL, he should be a starter somewhere. 

 
travdogg said:
I would agree that Wentz's biggest issues are mental, but the bolded is really pushing it in my opinion. Wentz was never anywhere near as physically talented as Favre or especially Mahomes. 
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yes, sorry - I wasn’t saying he was as good as Mahomes, or Favre for that matter - I was just describing his ability to go off script.  He shook off sacks, and managed to evade defenders & throw his receivers open. The first part reminded me of Favre, the latter reminded me of Mahomes. 

I really wasn’t saying he was as good as either, but I do think he was better than “good” in 2017 - he was bordering on great. He was decisive in the pocket, but 

travdogg said:
I think its been said so often that its become almost a tall tale, that if Wentz doesn't get hurt in 2017 he's the MVP. I don't know where that idea got started but its 100% untrue. He was leading the league in TDs when he got hurt, but wasn't in the top-7 in any other category. 
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The eye test was impressive. 

I’m just saying - they were a fun team to watch, and Wentz was making a lot of sports center type plays. 

travdogg said:
Honestly, Wentz was never better than a good QB. Nothing wrong with being a good QB, its better than he's regarded now, but the pendulum has probably swung too far because of the memories of what he was in 2017, even if he really hasn't fallen as far as he has perceived to. Maybe I've just had a different opinion of him all along, but I thought he performed as expected in 2021, he was much better than he was in 2020, and pretty much the same as he was in 2019. 

I'm starting to think if the price is right, a return to Pennsylvania would make a lot of sense. I mean, the Colts should probably keep him, but if not, there should be suitors. Assuming Rodgers, Watson, and Wilson either stay put, or aren't available to a team looking to upgrade at QB, Wentz is arguably the next best option. Wentz is one of the 25 best QBs in the NFL, he should be a starter somewhere. 
 
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i agree with most of this. I just don’t know if he can be resurrected. 

 
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Hot Sauce Guy said:
Wentz: 62.4% comp, 3563 yards, 27:7 TD:INT. He rushed 3x for 17 yards & 0 TD. He fumbled 8x, losing 5 of them.

Total TD:Turnover 27:15

Tannehill: 67.23% comp, 3734 yards, 21:14 TD:Int.He rushed 55x for 270 yards and 7 TDs. He fumbled 10x, losing 4.
total TD:Turnover = 28:18
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Small correction: Math does not compute for one of the two.

 
Dont get the Tannehill hate, at all. Dude played well considering. 

Something about Wentz just isn't inspiring confidence

 
NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports the Colts are "actively looking" for a new quarterback. 

Every sign points to the Colts parting ways with Wentz after his late-season meltdown that left the team without a postseason berth and Colts owner Jim Irsay ranting and raving on social media for weeks. No one in the Colts organization has committed to sticking with Wentz after his disastrous 2021 campaign. The team should part ways with Wentz before his $15 million base salary becomes full guaranteed in March. It's unclear how Indianapolis will upgrade at the position without parting ways with massive draft capital to acquire another QB before the NFL Draft. 

SOURCE: Pat McAfee on Twitter 

Feb 25, 2022, 12:56 PM ET
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