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QB Justin Fields, NYJ (2 Viewers)

One thing that needs to be noted is that Nagy only had 4 designed rollouts and was harshly criticized for not rolling him out more but he was countering how the Browns DC Woods was aligning his DEs.

Both Clowney and Garrett were not just lined up 9-wide.  They were so far out to keep Justin contained in the pocket that they were 11-wide.  ZERO CHANCE for designed roll outs.  Suicide.  

Hate to say it but they have to look at how Baltimore used an entire off-season to build an offense around Lamar Jackson's running ability because Fields is fantastic on designed runs.

Nagy is gone.  They should look at Baltimore's OC, QB coach/run-game coordinator and ask what they need and just step away and let them build an offense to not just give him a shot but to make him a feared weapon, he's got that sort of talent/potential IMHO.

 
Bracie Smathers said:
One thing that needs to be noted is that Nagy only had 4 designed rollouts and was harshly criticized for not rolling him out more but he was countering how the Browns DC Woods was aligning his DEs.

Both Clowney and Garrett were not just lined up 9-wide.  They were so far out to keep Justin contained in the pocket that they were 11-wide.  ZERO CHANCE for designed roll outs.  Suicide.  

Hate to say it but they have to look at how Baltimore used an entire off-season to build an offense around Lamar Jackson's running ability because Fields is fantastic on designed runs.

Nagy is gone.  They should look at Baltimore's OC, QB coach/run-game coordinator and ask what they need and just step away and let them build an offense to not just give him a shot but to make him a feared weapon, he's got that sort of talent/potential IMHO.
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Haven’t rewatched the  rewind of CLE/CHI but for Week 2 the QB School (JT O’Sullivan) broke down all his pass plays. The scheme is disturbing, they had plays that are designed to work against zone being run v man coverage. On a lot of plays, Fields needs his primary to win his route bc there’s no other progression - they were running their WR/TEs right into coverage.

Maybe that was just one bad game plan, but my first impression is Nagy doesn’t know how to unlock this guy. If you’ve given a young QB one good option or you’re ####ed, that’s just not going to work in today’s league.

Fields isn’t actually a great running QB like say Watson or Lamar. He’s really good at being a mobile QB, sliding around the pocket buying time, only taking off when the route doesn’t develop. I think he’s going to become a good QB for his next HC’

 
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Bracie Smathers said:
One thing that needs to be noted is that Nagy only had 4 designed rollouts and was harshly criticized for not rolling him out more but he was countering how the Browns DC Woods was aligning his DEs.

Both Clowney and Garrett were not just lined up 9-wide.  They were so far out to keep Justin contained in the pocket that they were 11-wide.  ZERO CHANCE for designed roll outs.  Suicide.  

Hate to say it but they have to look at how Baltimore used an entire off-season to build an offense around Lamar Jackson's running ability because Fields is fantastic on designed runs.

Nagy is gone.  They should look at Baltimore's OC, QB coach/run-game coordinator and ask what they need and just step away and let them build an offense to not just give him a shot but to make him a feared weapon, he's got that sort of talent/potential IMHO.
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So is the correct response to 11wide to pound the rock up the middle?

 
BobbyLayne said:
Fields isn’t actually a great running QB like say Watson or Lamar. He’s really good at being a mobile QB, sliding around the pocket buying time, only taking off when the route doesn’t develop. I think he’s going to become a good QB for his next HC’
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Those two don't belong in the same paragraph and Fields is the equal or superior to Watson.  He would have been OSU leading rusher by a mile had he run it like they did with Barrett but his far superior arm feeds this incorrect narrative.  He's a fantastic runner when he does it.

 
Hankmoody said:
Those two don't belong in the same paragraph and Fields is the equal or superior to Watson.  He would have been OSU leading rusher by a mile had he run it like they did with Barrett but his far superior arm feeds this incorrect narrative.  He's a fantastic runner when he does it.
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In college Watson had a 1K season and averaged over 50 per game, whereas Fields never topped 500 and averaged 30. Consistently was top 3 rushing amongst QB 2017-19, fell to 6th last year.

Agreed Justin has a terrific arm, I’m just saying his rushing production once he matures as a QB will be more along the lines of day Dak/Wilson, and not Murray or Hurts.

I thank everyone expects Fields to be a good runner, but he won’t have elite rushing stats like prime Cam or Lamar.

 
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BobbyLayne said:
In college Watson had a 1K season and averaged over 50 per game, whereas Fields never topped 500 and averaged 30. Consistently was top 3 rushing amongst QB 2017-19, fell to 6th last year.

Agreed Justin has a terrific arm, I’m just saying his rushing production once he matures as a QB will be more along the lines of day Dak/Wilson, and not Murray or Hurts.

I thank everyone expects Fields to be a good runner, but he won’t have elite rushing stats like prime Cam or Lamar.
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Totally different systems though.  Watson ran 373 times in his last two years, Fields 218 and only 81 last year.  Day doesn't want his QB running, I don't think they have run a single designed QB run or read option yet this year.  It all depends on what CHI wants him to do, if they run him like Hurts he can easily match those numbers.

Again you have two guys in the same sentence that don't belong together (my first post meant Watson and Lamar, not Fields and Watson).  Kyler and Lamar are a tier of their own in terms of running skill set.  Hurts, Fields, Watson, they are all the same guy in the next tier and it's all about how those systems let them loose.

To stay mostly on point yes, Nagy has to get his head out of his tailpipe or get moved along fast.  Look at Darnold and Tannehill once they got away from Gase, Nagy is trending the exact same way.

 
So that was brutal. If I were to type up a narrative of my worst nightmare in terms of how bad Nagy could mess this up, what happened Sunday would have been worse than my worst fear. At least he is mostly in one piece. I didn't know it was possible to be stupider than what my wildest imagination came up with. Yikes. Nothing but 5 and 7 step drops with *that* OL v DL? Textbook of what not to do. No designed runs and totally predictable formations like usual.

That said, the kid needs to develop a better clock and GTFO. Tough week but he will get better. 

 
barackdhouse said:
So that was brutal. If I were to type up a narrative of my worst nightmare in terms of how bad Nagy could mess this up, what happened Sunday would have been worse than my worst fear. At least he is mostly in one piece. I didn't know it was possible to be stupider than what my wildest imagination came up with. Yikes. Nothing but 5 and 7 step drops with *that* OL v DL? Textbook of what not to do. No designed runs and totally predictable formations like usual.

That said, the kid needs to develop a better clock and GTFO. Tough week but he will get better. 
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This is better IMO.  Nagy is now clearly out of his league and they will only waste this one year of Fields on him.  If he goes 9-8 he'll get the chance to Gase this up.

 
This isn't just on Nagy, it's on the front office that hired him. The same front office that drafted Fields who is in NO WAY NFL ready. This kid doesn't have what it takes to play at this level. I know it's early in his career and all, but this is another Cardale Jones, D. Haskins, Terrell Pryor, Troy Smith they're all equally talented in saturday football games, not so much on sundays, I see Fields as another of these EPIC busts, probably another Akili Smith type overhyped flop.why can't people just wrap their heads around the fact that Ohio State QBs suck in the NFL. why must we always go down this road?? 

The Red Rocket needs to get back to earth, they need him in the worst way here

 
The Bears offensive line was a huge issue in the preseason and continues to be during the season. Do we think Nagy adjusts? Do we think Fields starts to get it and his mobility and ability to throw on the run will eventually open up the offense? I am holding onto Mooney at the moment. Had some belief that with his speed, target share and Fields ability to get out of the pocket that it might translate to deep shots down the field for Mooney. Not sure if that will ever materialize this season. Don't want to quit on a player that may come on, but also don't want to keep "possibility" while others are performing and available.

 
jurrassic said:
Do we think Nagy adjusts?
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Bears fan here so I'm as jaded as they come.

My *attempt* at an objective take is that Nagy is absolute garbage and is more likely to ruin him (and soon) than to help him progress. It is possible for both things to be true at the same time, that Nagy is horrible and that Fields might not be as good as people like me would like to think. There are multiple questions about the supporting cast as well. OL is hot garbage for sure.

But fundamentally, your question, will he adjust? No, he will not. I will be shocked if Nagy adjusts. He *has* shown the ability to occasionally be clever and to scheme people open and call a good looking play. The other 95% of the time he looks obstinate and stubborn in his approach and game plans. IMO making smart in-game adjustments is one of the main keys to success in almost any sport or game. Nagy is the embodiment of the opposite of this.

Unfortunately I do not share the MSM take that he is on the hot seat. I really, really want to believe that he is on the hot seat but I just don't believe it for a second. 

I hope I am wrong. I think Fields is the real deal but obviously needs a chance to succeed and develop. I am holding for sure. I am even targeting him in a redraft league where I have Lamar Jackson because I still believe that much. That he is better on my bench than in my opponent's starting lineup. He still has that kind of upside, so if Nagy does get a clue then it could be on like Donkey Kong.

TLDR not holding my breath on Nagy getting fired but can't give up on Fields yet.

 
barackdhouse said:
Bears fan here so I'm as jaded as they come.

My *attempt* at an objective take is that Nagy is absolute garbage and is more likely to ruin him (and soon) than to help him progress. It is possible for both things to be true at the same time, that Nagy is horrible and that Fields might not be as good as people like me would like to think. There are multiple questions about the supporting cast as well. OL is hot garbage for sure.

But fundamentally, your question, will he adjust? No, he will not. I will be shocked if Nagy adjusts. He *has* shown the ability to occasionally be clever and to scheme people open and call a good looking play. The other 95% of the time he looks obstinate and stubborn in his approach and game plans. IMO making smart in-game adjustments is one of the main keys to success in almost any sport or game. Nagy is the embodiment of the opposite of this.

Unfortunately I do not share the MSM take that he is on the hot seat. I really, really want to believe that he is on the hot seat but I just don't believe it for a second. 

I hope I am wrong. I think Fields is the real deal but obviously needs a chance to succeed and develop. I am holding for sure. I am even targeting him in a redraft league where I have Lamar Jackson because I still believe that much. That he is better on my bench than in my opponent's starting lineup. He still has that kind of upside, so if Nagy does get a clue then it could be on like Donkey Kong.

TLDR not holding my breath on Nagy getting fired but can't give up on Fields yet.
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What's your opinion on the value of the wr's for the rest of year? Obviously the draft cost was pretty high for Robinson, so that's a hold and hope situation. Do you think Mooney has any consistent value for the rest of year, or will it be a situation where you will never have the confidence to start him?  So when he does have a productive week, it will be on your bench. 

 
All of his plays from CLE game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9cExOBNjO4

Plenty of good: ability to move / avoid; some good reads / throws / throw-aways. Clearly some bad: waiting for receiver to be open, rather than throwing to the spot based on coverage; not seeing pressure / blitz; missing a few open players.

100% terrible game plan that looks like it featured 2 RPO plays, 1 designed run, and a whopping ZERO roll-out / waggle type plays that would pressure the D with his running ability. Aside from 3ish plays, Nagy called a game I'd expect to see for a pure pocket passer. That would have been ok last week when they built a game plan for Dalton and Fields came in due to injury. With a full week to prepare for the start, that's terrible coaching.

Even in redraft, I'd hold assets from this offense for another week to see if Nagy really is that stupid/stubborn/bad. Not really expecting much, though. 

 
Flying Elvis said:
All of his plays from CLE game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9cExOBNjO4

Plenty of good: ability to move / avoid; some good reads / throws / throw-aways. Clearly some bad: waiting for receiver to be open, rather than throwing to the spot based on coverage; not seeing pressure / blitz; missing a few open players.

100% terrible game plan that looks like it featured 2 RPO plays, 1 designed run, and a whopping ZERO roll-out / waggle type plays that would pressure the D with his running ability. Aside from 3ish plays, Nagy called a game I'd expect to see for a pure pocket passer. That would have been ok last week when they built a game plan for Dalton and Fields came in due to injury. With a full week to prepare for the start, that's terrible coaching.

Even in redraft, I'd hold assets from this offense for another week to see if Nagy really is that stupid/stubborn/bad. Not really expecting much, though. 
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My take on Fields after watching almost every Ohio State game last year was that he was very much a 1-read then run QB. It's why I didn't want my team (WFT) to get anywhere near this guy even with a draft pick in the late-teens.

Watching those plays, and while it was one game against a good defense, those very same tendencies are still there. A lot of forcing the ball to his 1st read while staring down his receiver. He's lucky he didn't throw 4+ interceptions. Half of his sacks, he ran himself into as he would panic once his first read was covered. I think I only saw him work down to his 2nd read twice in all of his passes.

As is, if he is going to have any kind of success this season, the offense needs to change fast. RGIII had success his rookie season despite the very same limitations as Fields with RPOs, play action, and bootlegs.

Side note: David Montgomery looks like one of the best RBs in football right now based on what he did after the catch in that video

 
jurrassic said:
What's your opinion on the value of the wr's for the rest of year? Obviously the draft cost was pretty high for Robinson, so that's a hold and hope situation. Do you think Mooney has any consistent value for the rest of year, or will it be a situation where you will never have the confidence to start him?  So when he does have a productive week, it will be on your bench. 
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I need to see Nagy call a competent game, or to delegate playcalling duties to someone who will, before I can feel good about Mooney. I may end up starting him *without* confidence in a couple spots because that's just how it goes sometimes.

Even Myles Garrett was quoted as saying they were surprised how the Bears called the game. 

 
Flying Elvis said:
All of his plays from CLE game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9cExOBNjO4

Plenty of good: ability to move / avoid; some good reads / throws / throw-aways. Clearly some bad: waiting for receiver to be open, rather than throwing to the spot based on coverage; not seeing pressure / blitz; missing a few open players.

100% terrible game plan that looks like it featured 2 RPO plays, 1 designed run, and a whopping ZERO roll-out / waggle type plays that would pressure the D with his running ability. Aside from 3ish plays, Nagy called a game I'd expect to see for a pure pocket passer. That would have been ok last week when they built a game plan for Dalton and Fields came in due to injury. With a full week to prepare for the start, that's terrible coaching.

Even in redraft, I'd hold assets from this offense for another week to see if Nagy really is that stupid/stubborn/bad. Not really expecting much, though. 
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Basically

 
On the Rich Eisen show on Monday they said it came out they were running WR and TE routes designed for man to man defense schemes, but they were up against obvious zone situations. I will admit I can't say if that is true. But running one WR and one TE into coverage areas and wondering why Fields couldn't do anything. 

And one read and then run would be an improvement if it were a fast passing game. 3 step drops. Fast hitches and screens. RPO. Misdirection. Ugh. 7 step drop against that D? Then 2nd and 20 after a sack they get in the I formation and run Monty into a predictable wall. Rinse repeat. Suck.

 
barackdhouse said:
And one read and then run would be an improvement if it were a fast passing game. 3 step drops. Fast hitches and screens. RPO. Misdirection. Ugh. 7 step drop against that D? Then 2nd and 20 after a sack they get in the I formation and run Monty into a predictable wall. Rinse repeat. Suck.
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I #### you not....Nagy did the same exact thing a week ago.

How Did Justin Fields Do Against the Bengals?

When teams are in Cover 4 or quarters, it’s effective to run simple curls and digs in between the zone defenders. But if you’re lined up against me and playing off coverage, back peddling while facing me, digs and curls are right where I am getting close to you. Nagy had them running into coverage. That’s why so often Justin appears to be locked onto one guy. He’s got no progression to go to. Either that guy wins his route or he’s screwed.    

OK, fine... the base offense for the Cincinnati game was designed for Dalton.

Wai wait wait holdup....you made NO adjustment for having Fields run the offense A WEEK LATER. You’re gonna call that old man dinosaur offense when you have a dynamic running QB? Are you trying to get fired?

(btw - same with Tribusky, did not adjust his offense to him for half a season.)

 
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barackdhouse said:
On the Rich Eisen show on Monday they said it came out they were running WR and TE routes designed for man to man defense schemes, but they were up against obvious zone situations. I will admit I can't say if that is true. But running one WR and one TE into coverage areas and wondering why Fields couldn't do anything. 

And one read and then run would be an improvement if it were a fast passing game. 3 step drops. Fast hitches and screens. RPO. Misdirection. Ugh. 7 step drop against that D? Then 2nd and 20 after a sack they get in the I formation and run Monty into a predictable wall. Rinse repeat. Suck.
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So is Fields allowed to audible to different routes?  Even if he can't switch from pass to run (or vice versa), they need to be able to adjust routes at least based on the coverage look.

You also have to wonder if the blocking scheme is his responsibility - if he's calling that wrong, then of course he's going to be sacked.

 
The Justin Fields Disaster Cake

Lot of ingredients in the Week 3 debacle that produced 47 yards of total offense.

That was not a typo.

  • Unimaginative, antiquated play calling
  • teammates not doing their job
  • some of the worst chop blocking I’ve ever seen.
  • Justin not GETTING THE BALL OUT
  • 7 step drops when you’re teammates are blocking for a 5 step
  • 7 man fronts v 5 man protection have predictable results
  • running receivers INTO coverage...I mean, I ya e to give it up here. I’ve seen the things Sean Payton and Sean McVay will do to scheme their guys open. To do the exact opposite....so meta.
  • bootleg...for a running QB. That’s a play you run for a Matt Stafford or Tom Brady.
Fields doesn’t get a free pass, he played poorly. But that was just bad football, man. That was a head coach not doing his job - not putting his players in a position to succeed.

Brett Kollmann called it criminal negligence. You don’t have to be a film guru to see that what they were trying was so poorly designed (+ the lousy execution was icing on the cake.)

They need to get Nagy away from Fields as soon as possible. Unfortunately I don’t think the Bears will move on from him this year. They should.

This week should be a good litmus test. Although Dan Campbell has Detroit playing hard and some of those guys are performing better than expected, this is not a defense that should shut you down. They’ll sack you (a lot), they do some things well, but their LBs are almost as bad as their WR room.

I’m holding Fields in redraft but I’m not hopeful. If Nagy doesn’t adjust his scheme I don’t think Justin has a chance, When bye weeks come I’ll flush this guy if it hasn’t gotten any better.

 
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Justin Fields’ WRs were open on 29% of plays (worst in NFL) his OL allowed a 50% pressure rate (worst in NFL) and his play caller got him outside the pocket 6% of drop backs.

 
I'm not usually one to pile on HC's, but Nagy is among the worst....so he is deserving. I'll go as far as to say that he's Gase-like. Putrid.

If he's not careful, he's gonna David Carr this young QB, with an otherwise bright future. It's a wonder that Fields walked away intact last week. A horrible game plan combined with an inability/refusal to alter it after the mauling began. Inexcusable.

 
I said this in the Bears thread:

Ive never understood the rush to get rookie qbs out there playing.  Talent or not it takes time to figure out everything.  How to practice, how to review film, how to lead a locker room etc.  How many qbs have the jets killed by trotting them out too early.  Letting Fields sit and watch instead of getting sacked 10 times seems to be like the better option.

 
I hope Nagy knows who is going to start and have a plan for that QB to work on all week. If he is flip flopping on who to start and no definitive plan, we are bound to see the same results this week. The NFL is an up and down league for many teams and players, I'm thinking/hoping this is one of those one week turnarounds that surprises. 

 
Nick up next?

GTD on who his QB is? Nagy is a genius.

Heard they might give the play calling back to the OC. Are they installing a new scheme and getting rid of dinosaur football? Last weekend wasn't just play calling, it was the whole game plan. Why would you run Andy Dalton plays for a mobile QB?

Then again, why would you run your receivers into coverage bc the Browns stopped running Cover 4 bc they saw Nagy was using the same lame offense that failed against Cincinnati. 

Fields could havre been a dynamic force this year. IDK why Pace drafted him if the HC has no clue of how to utilize his talent.

 
 Fields confirmed the starter tomorrow, via several apps.

 Not a big inspiration of confidence in AROB in the one spot I have him.

  :wall:

 
themeistersinger said:
The genius move would be to send both Foles and Fields out for the first possession and they do rock-paper-scissors to see who stays on the field.
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They would #### it up. They would keep choosing paper and there would be a delay of game. 1st and 15

 
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As a life long Lion fan and a heavy investor in Bears FF players I can see a total 180 reversal from last week. Historically the Lions have always given up huge games to QB's that nobody expected. Whether it is through the air, ground, or combo of both, I see Fields going off compared to expectations after last week.

Bold prediction- ARob to rebound and Monty to go off vs the Lion D, Fields off life support after one of the worst offensive displays ever in the NFL. With that said, pending Lazor taking over play calling duties from clueless Nagy.  

 
Justin Fields completed 12-of-18 passes for 215 yards, zero touchdowns and one interception in the Bears' 24-14 Week 4 win over the Lions. He rushed three times for an additional nine yards.

Fields hit Darnell Mooney for a 64-yarder and connected with Allen Robinson for a 28-yarder. As expected, he looked much more comfortable against the Lions defense than the Bears. The Bears were very run heavy in this game, however. That was partly do to the Bears leading for the entire game, and partly due to a conservative game plan. If Fields remains the starter in Week 5, he will be a risky fantasy play against the Raiders, because Bears are not yet designing an offense around Fields that takes advantage of his rushing ability.
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Coach Matt Nagy announced that Justin Fields will start for the Bears moving forward.

Nagy was painfully slow to commit to Fields as his starter, but he finally made the right call, handing the offense over to his promising rookie quarterback. Fields has just four designed rush attempts over the last two weeks, so there's plenty of meat on the bone in his deployment as a runner. In spot duty Weeks 1-2 Fields carried the ball seven times on designed runs, so there's some reason for optimism that the Bears will better utilize their mobile starter. Fields will be a QB2 in Week 5 against a Raiders defense with Pro Football Focus' top graded pass rush. To start him, fantasy managers will need to take a leap of faith that Matt Nagy will provide Fields with the ability to generate rushing value in a difficult matchup. Bears' wide receivers are likely to be inconsistent with a rookie under center. Considering that Andy Dalton has the lowest aDOT in the NFL, inconsistent value is an upgrade.

SOURCE: Brad Biggs on Twitter

Oct 6, 2021, 1:00 PM ET
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Faust said:
Coach Matt Nagy announced that Justin Fields will start for the Bears moving forward.
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Look, the decision belongs to the head coach, ok?  There's input from people, ok?  But the head coach makes all the decisions, ok?  The head coach is the decision maker, ok?

 
Justin Fields completed 12-of-20 passes for 111 yards and one score in Chicago's 20-9 Week 5 win over the Raiders.

Although it was an efficient afternoon for Fields, who found TE Jesper Horstead in the first quarter for the rookie's first career touchdown pass, he discouragingly totaled three carries for four yards from the ground, compiling a miserable 25 rushing yards over his last three starts. With 24 pass attempts or less in four consecutive outings (and 21 passes to 34 backfield carries on Sunday), OC Bill Lazor clearly has Fields' safety in the pocket and under center in mind as his highest priority. Unfortunately, it's not an environment Fields can provide value in for fantasy until he's allowed to let loose.

Oct 10, 2021, 9:18 PM ET
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