QB Patrick Mahomes II, KC (2 Viewers)

[King of the Jungle]

Just wait until Mahomes to unleash his full self with his entire receiving team in full strength. Clearly, half of it went *POOF* last night after losing Worthy early in the game.

Yeah but even then will Mahomes be able to vault back into a Top 3 type QB (for fantasy purposes)? It seems entirely likely his new ceiling is mid-career Big Ben or Rivers where he's a no-doubt QB1 at a reasonable draft cost with big spike weeks, but unlikely to finish Top 3 for the season. No shame in that.

He had 26 points in 4 pt passing TD leagues last night, against a team that shut KC down last year, and without Worthy or Rice. He looks like he's moving better this year with a chip on his shoulder. Mid-tier Big Ben or PR? I don't know. Lamar averaged just under 26 in 4pt passing TD leagues last season. KC still has Royals and Smith to work into gameplans, and Thornton seems to be a guy they can rely on as a deep threat. He was highly rated going into NE, let's not forget that.. I suspect Mahomes is in for a great season.

I have no doubt he *could* be top 3 again, but given his weapons and offensive line I don't think he will. I'm not calling him a bum, just that his current situation does not seem conducive to reliably producing Top 3 seasons. If Rice comes back and turns into a consistent WR1 instead of a Jaylen Reed high variance type, that would help considerably.

Most Qb’s will be greatly impacted with their number 1 & 2 receivers on the sideline. Not sure if any other QB in the league could have performed better in those circumstances than Mahomes did last night.

 

[TampaMike19]

he will need to be more Jalen hurts than ever and 6-59-1 is quite an excellent start in the rushing department. Not sure he will get his passing yards up this year with this allotment of weapons

 

[King of the Jungle]

he will need to be more Jalen hurts than ever and 6-59-1 is quite an excellent start in the rushing department. Not sure he will get his passing yards up this year with this allotment of weapons

Hope he struggles for a few weeks and buy low is my suggestion.

 

[rockaction]

I roster him and it gets worse every year. I don't think his output last night is a harbinger of good things to come. He has no weapons and was exposing himself on his runs all night. He isn't even as fast or as elusive as he once was. And there isn't just that there isn't anything deep when he throws, but that there's nothing of even intermediate depth. Last night was ugly and was actually terrible news for him going forward, in my opinion. The tweet below confirms what we've been watching the past few years. Nice record, Pat. Be a shame if something were to happen to it.

https://x.com/ESPNInsights/status/1964090668160074193

https://x.com/ESPNInsights
ESPN Insights

@ESPNInsights
·
19h

Patrick Mahomes is 39-10 as a starter in the 3 seasons since losing Tyreek Hill. In that time, only Daniel Jones (6.4) has averaged fewer air yards per attempt than Mahomes (6.5)

I was actually in awe of Mahomes in the second half. He looked like he could have had me out there running routes and he still would have given his team a chance to win at the end. I also was impressed with his speed and thought he looked quicker than in the past. As far as FF, this guy is seemingly screwed with injuries every year which is unfortunate. I think the plan this year was to get back to throwing downfield, but you can only work with what you have. I will be looking to buy low if Worthy’s injury is not too long term, once he has Rice/Worthy I think he will be very Ff productive.

I agree with you (and Jacob's Ladder and FarFromHome) about him being in shape. That's an awesome sign. His circumstances and what's around him as far as talent goes makes my jaw drop a bit. Two out of his three top receivers got cut by, of all teams, the Patriots just last year. And I don't know if he's missing throws like he did last year or whether his receivers can't run the right route or get open, but I saw two throws seven-twelve yards off. We saw that last year.

Really, I am completely out on KC. Their three running backs are Pacheco (never really good and now cooked), Hunt (about thirty and looking weirdly swollen and like he's retired), and Brashard Smith (a recent convert from WR?). Worthy and Rice are out and they've never been downfield threats or guys who run effective patterns ever.

You give Veach a lot of leeway because of their success, but his team is cobbled together and ineffective in the face of the cap and contracts and picking nearly dead last every year (and some of those picks being more than just head-scratchers). I think it's a bad, bad situation.

I really hope I'm overreacting and that I'm so completely wrong that this take gets dredged up. But for the past three years I can't remember any point at which I've thought, "This! This is the offense we signed up for! Way to go, fellas!" Now I'm watching not with pensiveness but with horror. Mahomes scrambling and getting hit repeatedly is a sign of things gone terribly awry. His line was supposed to be improved, and it may well be, but I read yet again that his time to release the ball was around 2.12 seconds or something like that, which is his fastest time ever even including last year, so I don't know whether that's designed, but you can't get downfield that way. Their offense doesn't threaten defenses deep or vertically. It's an extreme West Coast offense, one that is nearly completely horizontal. It doesn't seem good in its concept and it's ugly to watch.

I'll stop. All the negative thoughts I could have had were affirmed or reaffirmed and this ain't good.

 

[King of the Jungle]

I roster him and it gets worse every year. I don't think his output last night is a harbinger of good things to come. He has no weapons and was exposing himself on his runs all night. He isn't even as fast or as elusive as he once was. And there isn't just that there isn't anything deep when he throws, but that there's nothing of even intermediate depth. Last night was ugly and was actually terrible news for him going forward, in my opinion. The tweet below confirms what we've been watching the past few years. Nice record, Pat. Be a shame if something were to happen to it.

https://x.com/ESPNInsights/status/1964090668160074193

https://x.com/ESPNInsights
ESPN Insights

@ESPNInsights
·
19h

Patrick Mahomes is 39-10 as a starter in the 3 seasons since losing Tyreek Hill. In that time, only Daniel Jones (6.4) has averaged fewer air yards per attempt than Mahomes (6.5)

I was actually in awe of Mahomes in the second half. He looked like he could have had me out there running routes and he still would have given his team a chance to win at the end. I also was impressed with his speed and thought he looked quicker than in the past. As far as FF, this guy is seemingly screwed with injuries every year which is unfortunate. I think the plan this year was to get back to throwing downfield, but you can only work with what you have. I will be looking to buy low if Worthy’s injury is not too long term, once he has Rice/Worthy I think he will be very Ff productive.

I agree with you (and Jacob's Ladder and FarFromHome) about him being in shape. That's an awesome sign. His circumstances and what's around him as far as talent goes makes my jaw drop a bit. Two out of his three top receivers got cut by, of all teams, the Patriots just last year. And I don't know if he's missing throws like he did last year or whether his receivers can't run the right route or get open, but I saw two throws seven-twelve yards off. We saw that last year.

Really, I am completely out on KC. Their three running backs are Pacheco (never really good and now cooked), Hunt (about thirty and looking weirdly swollen and like he's retired), and Brashard Smith (a recent convert from WR?). Worthy and Rice are out and they've never been downfield threats or guys who run effective patterns ever.

You give Veach a lot of leeway because of their success, but his team is cobbled together and ineffective in the face of the cap and contracts and picking nearly dead last every year (and some of those picks being more than just head-scratchers). I think it's a bad, bad situation.

I really hope I'm overreacting and that I'm so completely wrong that this take gets dredged up. But for the past three years I can't remember any point at which I've thought, "This! This is the offense we signed up for! Way to go, fellas!" Now I'm watching not with pensiveness but with horror. Mahomes scrambling and getting hit repeatedly is a sign of things gone terribly awry. His line was supposed to be improved, and it may well be, but I read yet again that his time to release the ball was around 2.12 seconds or something like that, which is his fastest time ever even including last year, so I don't know whether that's designed, but you can't get downfield that way. Their offense doesn't threaten defenses deep or vertically. It's an extreme West Coast offense, one that is nearly completely horizontal. It doesn't seem good in its concept and it's ugly to watch.

I'll stop. All the negative thoughts I could have had were affirmed or reaffirmed and this ain't good.

I understand your concerns. I traded Mahomes away in my only dynasty league due to many of the same reasons. Watching him last night almost makes me regret it. He is able to do more with less at a greater ability than anyone imo. Once things settle (Rice back, Worthy back, Royals gets some seasoning, Brashard incorporates in the passing game more, etc), I think he has a chance to be near the top again. I think your concerns are warranted, but I think water with eventually find its level and he will make holders happy. Bum luck the last few years regarding skill players and I wish they would have dipped into a deep TE class to replace Kelce, but there is plenty of talent to make for a special run from an FF standpoint once everyone is on the field. The defense is not as strong as years past and the run game is mediocre, Pat is setup to produce…just needs his squad to be on the field.

 

[rockaction]

I roster him and it gets worse every year. I don't think his output last night is a harbinger of good things to come. He has no weapons and was exposing himself on his runs all night. He isn't even as fast or as elusive as he once was. And there isn't just that there isn't anything deep when he throws, but that there's nothing of even intermediate depth. Last night was ugly and was actually terrible news for him going forward, in my opinion. The tweet below confirms what we've been watching the past few years. Nice record, Pat. Be a shame if something were to happen to it.

https://x.com/ESPNInsights/status/1964090668160074193

https://x.com/ESPNInsights
ESPN Insights

@ESPNInsights
·
19h

Patrick Mahomes is 39-10 as a starter in the 3 seasons since losing Tyreek Hill. In that time, only Daniel Jones (6.4) has averaged fewer air yards per attempt than Mahomes (6.5)

I was actually in awe of Mahomes in the second half. He looked like he could have had me out there running routes and he still would have given his team a chance to win at the end. I also was impressed with his speed and thought he looked quicker than in the past. As far as FF, this guy is seemingly screwed with injuries every year which is unfortunate. I think the plan this year was to get back to throwing downfield, but you can only work with what you have. I will be looking to buy low if Worthy’s injury is not too long term, once he has Rice/Worthy I think he will be very Ff productive.

I agree with you (and Jacob's Ladder and FarFromHome) about him being in shape. That's an awesome sign. His circumstances and what's around him as far as talent goes makes my jaw drop a bit. Two out of his three top receivers got cut by, of all teams, the Patriots just last year. And I don't know if he's missing throws like he did last year or whether his receivers can't run the right route or get open, but I saw two throws seven-twelve yards off. We saw that last year.

Really, I am completely out on KC. Their three running backs are Pacheco (never really good and now cooked), Hunt (about thirty and looking weirdly swollen and like he's retired), and Brashard Smith (a recent convert from WR?). Worthy and Rice are out and they've never been downfield threats or guys who run effective patterns ever.

You give Veach a lot of leeway because of their success, but his team is cobbled together and ineffective in the face of the cap and contracts and picking nearly dead last every year (and some of those picks being more than just head-scratchers). I think it's a bad, bad situation.

I really hope I'm overreacting and that I'm so completely wrong that this take gets dredged up. But for the past three years I can't remember any point at which I've thought, "This! This is the offense we signed up for! Way to go, fellas!" Now I'm watching not with pensiveness but with horror. Mahomes scrambling and getting hit repeatedly is a sign of things gone terribly awry. His line was supposed to be improved, and it may well be, but I read yet again that his time to release the ball was around 2.12 seconds or something like that, which is his fastest time ever even including last year, so I don't know whether that's designed, but you can't get downfield that way. Their offense doesn't threaten defenses deep or vertically. It's an extreme West Coast offense, one that is nearly completely horizontal. It doesn't seem good in its concept and it's ugly to watch.

I'll stop. All the negative thoughts I could have had were affirmed or reaffirmed and this ain't good.

I understand your concerns. I traded Mahomes away in my only dynasty league due to many of the same reasons. Watching him last night almost makes me regret it. He is able to do more with less at a greater ability than anyone imo. Once things settle (Rice back, Worthy back, Royals gets some seasoning, Brashard incorporates in the passing game more, etc), I think he has a chance to be near the top again. I think your concerns are warranted, but I think water with eventually find its level and he will make holders happy. Bum luck the last few years regarding skill players and I wish they would have dipped into a deep TE class to replace Kelce, but there is plenty of talent to make for a special run from an FF standpoint once everyone is on the field. The defense is not as strong as years past and the run game is mediocre, Pat is setup to produce…just needs his squad to be on the field.

Yeah, I can see what you're saying also. I hope I'm wrong. I think Pat looked really fit last night, which is awesome. I think the foundation is there. Whether he has the pieces around him and whether he has his intermediate/deep ball back and useful remains to be seen.

 

[King of the Jungle]

I roster him and it gets worse every year. I don't think his output last night is a harbinger of good things to come. He has no weapons and was exposing himself on his runs all night. He isn't even as fast or as elusive as he once was. And there isn't just that there isn't anything deep when he throws, but that there's nothing of even intermediate depth. Last night was ugly and was actually terrible news for him going forward, in my opinion. The tweet below confirms what we've been watching the past few years. Nice record, Pat. Be a shame if something were to happen to it.

https://x.com/ESPNInsights/status/1964090668160074193

https://x.com/ESPNInsights
ESPN Insights

@ESPNInsights
·
19h

Patrick Mahomes is 39-10 as a starter in the 3 seasons since losing Tyreek Hill. In that time, only Daniel Jones (6.4) has averaged fewer air yards per attempt than Mahomes (6.5)

I was actually in awe of Mahomes in the second half. He looked like he could have had me out there running routes and he still would have given his team a chance to win at the end. I also was impressed with his speed and thought he looked quicker than in the past. As far as FF, this guy is seemingly screwed with injuries every year which is unfortunate. I think the plan this year was to get back to throwing downfield, but you can only work with what you have. I will be looking to buy low if Worthy’s injury is not too long term, once he has Rice/Worthy I think he will be very Ff productive.

I agree with you (and Jacob's Ladder and FarFromHome) about him being in shape. That's an awesome sign. His circumstances and what's around him as far as talent goes makes my jaw drop a bit. Two out of his three top receivers got cut by, of all teams, the Patriots just last year. And I don't know if he's missing throws like he did last year or whether his receivers can't run the right route or get open, but I saw two throws seven-twelve yards off. We saw that last year.

Really, I am completely out on KC. Their three running backs are Pacheco (never really good and now cooked), Hunt (about thirty and looking weirdly swollen and like he's retired), and Brashard Smith (a recent convert from WR?). Worthy and Rice are out and they've never been downfield threats or guys who run effective patterns ever.

You give Veach a lot of leeway because of their success, but his team is cobbled together and ineffective in the face of the cap and contracts and picking nearly dead last every year (and some of those picks being more than just head-scratchers). I think it's a bad, bad situation.

I really hope I'm overreacting and that I'm so completely wrong that this take gets dredged up. But for the past three years I can't remember any point at which I've thought, "This! This is the offense we signed up for! Way to go, fellas!" Now I'm watching not with pensiveness but with horror. Mahomes scrambling and getting hit repeatedly is a sign of things gone terribly awry. His line was supposed to be improved, and it may well be, but I read yet again that his time to release the ball was around 2.12 seconds or something like that, which is his fastest time ever even including last year, so I don't know whether that's designed, but you can't get downfield that way. Their offense doesn't threaten defenses deep or vertically. It's an extreme West Coast offense, one that is nearly completely horizontal. It doesn't seem good in its concept and it's ugly to watch.

I'll stop. All the negative thoughts I could have had were affirmed or reaffirmed and this ain't good.

I understand your concerns. I traded Mahomes away in my only dynasty league due to many of the same reasons. Watching him last night almost makes me regret it. He is able to do more with less at a greater ability than anyone imo. Once things settle (Rice back, Worthy back, Royals gets some seasoning, Brashard incorporates in the passing game more, etc), I think he has a chance to be near the top again. I think your concerns are warranted, but I think water with eventually find its level and he will make holders happy. Bum luck the last few years regarding skill players and I wish they would have dipped into a deep TE class to replace Kelce, but there is plenty of talent to make for a special run from an FF standpoint once everyone is on the field. The defense is not as strong as years past and the run game is mediocre, Pat is setup to produce…just needs his squad to be on the field.

Yeah, I can see what you're saying also. I hope I'm wrong. I think Pat looked really fit last night, which is awesome. I think the foundation is there. Whether he has the pieces around him and whether he has his intermediate/deep ball back and useful remains to be seen.

I can see your side as well. If the Worthy injury is longer than expected, Rice is rusty or not the same, Royals may not catch on quickly, Brown could very well get hurt, Kelce never returns to anywhere near form, etc. There is certainly risk, I just thought he was masterful the second half which gave promise if things fall in favor.