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QB Ryan Fitzpatrick, WAS (2 Viewers)
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FUBAR
Footballguy
. If $12 million were Fitz's base salary in 2016, that would be the 13th-highest figure for any quarterback in the NFL. It's higher than that of Aaron Rodgers,Andy Dalton, Tony Romo, and Carson Palmer
I was on fitz's side for a while here, he played well enough last year to warrant a decent contract. But it seems he's playing hardball without good reason. He's a smart guy but this seems weak.
TZMarkie
Footballguy
. If $12 million were Fitz's base salary in 2016, that would be the 13th-highest figure for any quarterback in the NFL. It's higher than that of Aaron Rodgers,Andy Dalton, Tony Romo, and Carson Palmer
I was on fitz's side for a while here, he played well enough last year to warrant a decent contract. But it seems he's playing hardball without good reason. He's a smart guy but this seems weak.
I think he knows this is likely his only and last chance to cash out.
He had a decent year, and was close to taking the Jets to the playoffs. I don't know the specifics of what the Jets were offering behind closed doors or the exact details like the specific guarantees for the first year/years or the breakdowns. But if you step back and say....(as Fitz's agent might) "They are offering you $12 million, but lets try and hold out and try and get $14 million and watch what happens". "Then we can just take the offer or an extremely close one as the season approaches if we feel we won't get any more money". The exact figures are irrelevant.
Lets face it, we all know he won't be getting that money from anyone else. But- What kind of predicament are the Jets in currently, think about this....
They have no real shot with Geno Smith, or at least not nearly as well as with what they had with Fitz last year. The Jets likely feel they at least have a chance with Fitz, or a possibly playoff run anyway. I'm sure they also figure they got a bit of an upgrade at RB with Forte. (even if we as fantasy players do or do not agree)
Plus we don't really know what goes on behind closed doors. His agent may well have a source that tells him that there is a "good chance" if they hold out until the preseason nears, they MAY* get a bit of a better deal or guarantee, or whatever it is they are looking for. OR, they may get a deal in the middle, giving them an extra million or two for waiting and playing hardball.
Regardless of whatever happens, I get the feeling that the Jets are definitely trying to stay in "win now mode", perhaps this is why Fitz is holding out. It only makes sense if they are pretty damn certain they know they can still get an attractive/close deal down the road in a few weeks.
I'm not saying this is the "right move" by Fitzpatrick and his agent, but in some ways I can understand it.
The fact that he seems to have Eric Decker and Brandon Marshall (and the majority of the team apparently????) on his side and pushing for his return, is all the more reason for him to try and negotiate for more.
Imagine how this would look if they were "close, but not enough to get him to resign" , then Geno Smith steps up and the Jets go 7-9. Then of course Decker and Marshall would be of the "I told you so" camp, the fans would hate it and it would look awful to the organization also.
His agent is probably in his ear telling him all this, and Fitz knows its his only chance to really cash out too.
So I do agree, it might seem off, but I really can't blame the guy.
TZM
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Hankmoody
Footballguy
Terrible examples. First many of those 12 are old deals, so he SHOULD get better money than many that's how newer contracts work. All three examples cited got significant bonuses (up front, even more valuable) when they signed their deals adding 4-8M per year in value. Rodgers got $57M the last three years, $33M on day one. Dalton got $30M in new money over two years, and that was with a crappy final year of the rookie deal bringing it down. Palmer got $50M in new money over three years. $12M would not net Fitzpatrick near what those guys are clearing.. If $12 million were Fitz's base salary in 2016, that would be the 13th-highest figure for any quarterback in the NFL. It's higher than that of Aaron Rodgers,Andy Dalton, Tony Romo, and Carson Palmer
I was on fitz's side for a while here, he played well enough last year to warrant a decent contract. But it seems he's playing hardball without good reason. He's a smart guy but this seems weak.
Also, no mention that the final two years are for $12M between them. Even if the $12M is fair (it probably is for him), those next two years are a terrible deal for him to be locked into. If they only think he's a 1 year starter offer him a 1 year deal at $12M. But that offer is garbage and I don't blame him at all.
. If $12 million were Fitz's base salary in 2016, that would be the 13th-highest figure for any quarterback in the NFL. It's higher than that of Aaron Rodgers,Andy Dalton, Tony Romo, and Carson Palmer
I was on fitz's side for a while here, he played well enough last year to warrant a decent contract. But it seems he's playing hardball without good reason. He's a smart guy but this seems weak.
Both Fitz and the Jets gambled on this. The Jets won. At least from a monetary standpoint. No other team has interest at the moment. Now Fitz can either sign for what they are offering or wait until somebody needs him more. Plain and simple. The Jets aren't being unfair, they are being savvy. It may not be the wisest move for the franchise, but they feel it's the right one. Fitz will cave soon
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FUBAR
Footballguy
The writer chose those examples on purpose, but you're right that they don't prove anything.
Still, the guy isn't a desired commodity. He's gambling on the team giving in and it's entirely possible he loses big time in the process. I still like the guy, seems like a good dude and maybe everything works out for him. But that's a risk I'm not taking at the end of my career especially if most (perhaps all) of the league sees me as easily replaceable.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I don't think they really wasted that much money on Forte, but they are poised to waste the last productive years of both Forte and Marshall..... and it can easily take several drafts to find players playing at the level they were playing last year. The eventual drop off is coming for both.
I think this entire situation kind of stems from their decision to franchise tag Wilkerson. They really needed to make a decision whether they were willing to commit to him and give him the long-term deal that would have allowed them to pay Fitz the $ he earned last year in a short term deal. Or, they needed to let him walk and take the compensatory pick for him. Wilkerson is a great player and great players are going to get paid. You have to decide if you are willing to pay your great players.
FUBAR
Footballguy
Not really, he's still better than what that have. If it were my call I'd contact the Bucs about Glennon. But we're almost certainly too late for that.
Maybe Peyton will follow Favre's ending and try to come back.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
Then isn't he a desired commodity?
I completely agree with you in terms of Glennon, btw. When NY drafted Hackenberg I assumed they were waving the white flag to give Fitz what he wanted because they put themselves in a situation where they are desperate for his services if they are hoping to make the playoffs this year. The way they have handled this situation is pretty weird unless they think they are dealing with a guy that HAS TO play football. I just don't think Fitz is one of those guys. This isn't exactly a guy from the Cromartie school of finance.
I still don't understand why they can't make it an incentive based deal where Fitz gets paid like he deserves to get paid if he performs like he did last season. Seems like an obvious solution to me and if he plays great and the Jets make the playoffs they should be happy to pay him a Bradford/Osweiler level contract. Based on the way those three guys played last year I don't know why anyone would expect him to play for any less, let alone significantly less.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
I can't believe there's no market for this guy. Why haven't the Broncos signed him? Seems like they'd be the Super Bowl favorite with him onboard. Just no cap room over there?
Everyone is acting like Fitz is some old one year stop-gap. He's 33, not 39. He's younger than Ben Roethlisberger and Philip Rivers, one year older than Aaron Rodgers.
Shouldn't 4000 yards and 30 TDs with a ~90 QB Rating for the next 4 years be worth quite a bit to most teams? Sure there's no guarantee he can keep that up (although his 2014 was actually quite good as well, just with fewer attempts) but it seems like he has a much better shot at it than a handful of other QBs that have signed big deals recently.
Everyone is acting like Fitz is some old one year stop-gap. He's 33, not 39. He's younger than Ben Roethlisberger and Philip Rivers, one year older than Aaron Rodgers.
Shouldn't 4000 yards and 30 TDs with a ~90 QB Rating for the next 4 years be worth quite a bit to most teams? Sure there's no guarantee he can keep that up (although his 2014 was actually quite good as well, just with fewer attempts) but it seems like he has a much better shot at it than a handful of other QBs that have signed big deals recently.
Riffraff
Footballguy
Because, he's yet to do that in his career? Fitz' last 4 years:
2015 = 31 TDs, 3905 yards, team = Jets
2014 = 17 TDs, 2483 yards, team = Texans
2013 = 14 TDs, 2454 yards, team = Titans
2012 = 24 TDs, 3400 yards. team = Bills
7 other years of mediocrity. 11 years in the league. You can't compare him to 3 franchise QBs with Hall of Fame consideration.
Pretty much the definition of a journeyman, non-franchise, can't put it all together for 2 straight years, type of guy.
Looks like a one-year wonder to me.
Just a note that Fitzpatrick has been rock solid in the Chan Gailey offense. Gailey had him in Buffalo from 2010-2012 where he averaged close to 3600 yards & 24 TDs a season. Fitz then floundered around until reunited with Gailey last year, where he again looked very good with 3900 yards & 31 TDs. Fitz has been a journey man at every stop except when he is paired with Gaileys offense, which he has mastered. No reason to doubt that he would not be successful in it for the next 3-4 years also.
FUBAR
Footballguy
Do you remember Pearl Jam's song better man? That's kind of what might happen here. The jets don't really want fitz but they can't find a better qb so they might go back to him.
He was so good the Texans traded him for a conditional 7th round pick so they could start Ryan Mallett and Brian Hoyer.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Yeah well my whole point is that NFL teams seem to be undervaluing him.
It's a QB driven league and he's had two pretty nice years in a row now, has plenty of career left, and is available in a league where multiple teams seem content to #### away their season with truly dreadful starting QBs. Seems like NFL teams treat QBs the same way that dynasty fantasy owners treat WRs/RBs. If they don't have 10 years left in their career, then they're not interested.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
NY has no hope of finding anyone at this point to perform at the level Fitz did last year, and Fitz can only perform that well in that offense with those great weapons..... and that seems obvious to everyone except Fitz and the Jets.
It's like watching a couple headed for divorce when in the back of your mind you don't think anyone will ever date either of these turds when they are single and they will both end up dying alone...... at least for this season. The Jets really need to pony up to pay for a second television to save the marriage, they don't have to buy a second house but they have to do more than they seem willing to do right now. Fitz is living in the house with custody of the kids and will never have to work another day in his life while the Jets need to decide just how much they want to lose in legal fees to the lawyers to cut off their nose to spite their face. They may be "right" and are offering more than what Fitz is worth to any other NFL team but being right and ending up happy are two entirely different things.
The funny thing is most of us are only worried about the welfare of the kids anyway, don't ruin the entire season of Marshall/Decker/Forte/Powell with your petty(pun intended) bickering!@#! I am a Gailey believer but any of the current QB's on the Jets would probably start a dumpster fire in that offense at worst, or simply ####### the progress of a promising playoff contender at best.
rockaction
Footballguy
Huh.
Anything we should know about?
12 million is an awful lot, if the reports are true. Sounds like Fitz is being a bit obdurate here.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
$12M is dirt cheap for a non rookie contract starting QB in the NFL. And the team is being careful not to release the full details of the 3 year offer. It could be the equivalent of a front loaded make-good contract, which would be a serious slap in the face to him.Tool said:
Our QB scoring system is far from a perfect evaluator of QBs, but we do reward completions as well as yds gained and TDs, and we penalize all turnovers, incompletions, sacks, and sack yardage and Fitz was the #11 overall and #13 ppg QB in the league last year in his first year with the Jets. Seems like he earned some credibility - more than what he is being offered.
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BoltBacker
Footballguy
Is it? Do you really feel like Fitz value to the Jets is 2/3rds of what Bradfords value is to the Eagles? How about 2/3rds of Osweilers value to HOU?rockaction said:
To me the obvious solution is escalator incentives that pay him at least as much as those guys if he thoroughly outplays both of them. Again.
Now you could argue that's not fair because neither of those guys have ever played as well as Fitz played last year. I think Fitz and his agent would counter-argue, "No ****, that's what we've been telling you for months now in these negotiations."
BoltBacker
Footballguy
Matt Millen certainly did. I feel sorry for the fool that ever questioned one of his decisions.Tool said:
rockaction
Footballguy
Those are fair points. But markets take into account not only the supply of labor, but the demand for labor by the entities that determine the payment of labor.
In other words, if there are no teams, and the other teams valued these guys enough to sign them over Fitz, what does that say about both the availability of the suppliers of labor and Fitz's relative worth?
That was way too heady of a market analysis.
- other teams need quarterbacks, sign or draft the best available at the market price
- Fitz is left without employment
- What does that say about his market demand and his desirability?
Why, if he is so good, is nobody signing him?
FUBAR
Footballguy
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I guess I would say the market has established what a starting QB(not even an especially good QB) is worth under the current salary cap.
The Jets have decided they don't need to pay for a starting QB. That decision is fine with me. They should just start Petty, or Hackenberg, or Geno if they are right and they don't need to pay for a starting QB. I have heard Petty is making great strides...... in understanding how to play Madden football. Few more years he may be on the path to playing franchise mode.
If they didn't want to pay a QB I thought they simply should have paid the draft pick for Glennon, or used a draft pick on a QB that is closer to being game-ready like Connor Cook imo. I am completely baffled that they came out of that draft having spent a high pick on a project QB and put themselves in this position.
rockaction
Footballguy
BoltBacker
Footballguy
True. The way he handled the CJ Anderson contract certainly proves NFL folks know a great deal more than we do about market conditions.
John Elway didn't sign fitz either. Pretty sure he knows the business.
I never thought Fitz made any sense for what Denver wants out of the QB position.
He may be going into the season with Sanchez as his starter, so that's debatable.
John Elway didn't sign fitz either. Pretty sure he knows the business.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
I beg to to differ, if your plan is to have one of 3 or 4 rookies step into the starting spot sooner rather then later ... a Sanchez type is a near perfect choice.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
...and strangely enough Fitzpatrick was readily available to those teams and they chose other options.
I loved what Forz brought to the team last season from a moxy and leadership standpoint - but he wasnt as good as his raw numbers. marshall frequently bailed him out and he got lucky on potential interceptions a number of times.
Bottom line is the Jets have limited cap space and the deal must work for both sides. I hope they find away to bring him back, but the funny thing is most fans are siding with the Jets approach here instead of scraming "Pay the man!", which beleive me is very rare in this market.
DallasDMac
Footballguy
Likely already been discussed but, wasn't Geno the starter last year before he got his jaw broke? Maybe the team still has confidence in his ability and don't feel the need to pay more than what they have offered to Fitz? Dunno, not in the NY area and not a fan. But would seem at least somewhat logical?
Hankmoody
Footballguy
Faust
MVP
The Jets' three-year offer to free agent Ryan Fitzpatrick is reportedly worth up to $36 million.
The base value of the deal is $24 million with $12 million coming in the first year and over $15 million guaranteed. While the $12 million in available incentives makes the deal look more reasonable, the New York Daily News' Manish Mehta called them "fugazi incentives," indicating there is little chance they would ever be reached. A one-year deal with an option for 2017 could be the compromise both sides are waiting for, but this saga looks destined to drag out well into the summer.
Related: Jets
Source: Ian Rapoport on Twitter
May 31 - 10:38 AM
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Mookie
Footballguy
I'm OK with Fitz moving on. If last year was as good as it gets with Fitz playing his heart out for that last contract (including three INTs in three 4th quarter drives with the playoffs on the line), then I'd rather save the cap space and see a year of Geno. Let Petty and Hackenberg learn for a year - just like Denver is doing with Sanchez/Lynch. A fat and happy, unmotivated Fitz will only bring mediocrity.
He doesn't strike me as a guy who would mail it in. Seems like a stand up guy - the type of guy who would still give it his all for his teammates.
That being said, he's asking for too much. He should take that guaranteed $15M. If he thinks he's worth more, consider it a week 17 collapse discount, but in reality nobody else is going to pay more.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
What a terrible post. What makes you think it's his last contract? He's 33 years old - younger than Eli, Rivers, Roethlisberger. What makes you think he'll end up fat and happy? Asking for Geno might be the worst call I have seen all year. Sorry to be rude, but this was just awful.
Mookie
Footballguy
If you have to apologize, why be so rude and insulting? There's no need to be a richard.Hankmoody said:
I don't think Fitz can get better than last year, when he played inspired, hurt, and put his body on the line. It was certainly more fun to watch than 4-12, when Geno was the starter and his supporting cast was garbage. At 10-5, Fitz fell apart when it mattered most and the Jets missed the playoffs - look up his stats - he was atrocious in a game they had to win. You mentioned Eli, Rivers, and Roethlisberger, who are all franchise QBs, but Fitz has never appeared in the playoffs, is playing for his sixth team, and has a history of injuries. I see him more as a Brian Griese, Kyle Orton, or Jason Campbell level of player. He can start and play decent, but he can't carry a team.
And where is this $12 million coming from to sign him? I don't want the team weakened just to settle for short term mediocrity at the QB position. Fitz wants a lot more money than his nonexistent market demands. Like many others before him, I think Fitz has a let down if he gets paid. His refusal to come to terms also tells me that football success and the team aren't his first priorities right now. I don't begrudge him that - he's a great guy and seems like a real family man who wants to provide, but why pay $12 million to a guy who's not busting his rear in the offseason to make the team better than it was the year before?
The Jets have drafted 3 QBs in 4 years (Geno, Petty, and Hackenberg) who on the roster today. Geno looked good in 2015 training camp before having his jaw broken. Geno played pretty well in his only appearance last season. Geno has looked good in OTAs and is way ahead of Hackenberg and Petty. Even Brandon Marshall commented about how much he has progressed this offseason. Geno is playing for his next contract. I think there's a good chance that he will give you the same or similar stats as Fitz for about 1/12th the cost. Sure, Geno makes bonehead plays and lacks Fitz's intangibles, but at that price (about $1 million), I can live with Geno for a season while Petty and Hackenberg learn.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
Lol, I love it. The Jets leak to the media what a greedy **** Fitz is being by not accepting their $12mill offer so Fitz goes to the media and accepts their offer. So I guess this thing is a done deal according to everyone that said in this thread that he was turning down $12mil right?......
Ryan Fitzpatrick - QB - Free Agent
ESPN New York's Rich Cimini reports the Jets will not re-sign free agent Ryan Fitzpatrick to a one-year, $12 million deal.
Fitzpatrick's camp informed the New York Daily News he's willing to return to Gang Green on a fully-guaranteed $12 million pact for one season, then bet on himself ahead of 2017 free agency. Cimini's report indicates the Jets are not interested in any such deal. The Jets are driving quite the tough bargain, but they're also well aware Fitzpatrick has no leverage beyond retirement. ESPN's Adam Schefter believes this saga could continue to drag on for "a while."
Related: Jets
These teams always want to take the high road and keep the negotiations out of the media, right up to the day they start leaking to the media what these spoiled players won't accept. Maybe this is the first lie the Jets have made with regard to how much they have been offering Fitz. Maybe. Didn't they already chase a LT that hadn't missed a game for a decade into retirement over $ and replace him with a cheap knock-off made out of paper mache? I thought the whole reason they were desperate not to live up to their deal with Brick was because they said they needed to give that $ to Fitz? The Jets appear to be bailing sea water onto the deck of the Titanic, and CLE gets labeled as "tanking" when they release... Brian Hartline?
Ryan Fitzpatrick - QB - Free Agent
ESPN New York's Rich Cimini reports the Jets will not re-sign free agent Ryan Fitzpatrick to a one-year, $12 million deal.
Fitzpatrick's camp informed the New York Daily News he's willing to return to Gang Green on a fully-guaranteed $12 million pact for one season, then bet on himself ahead of 2017 free agency. Cimini's report indicates the Jets are not interested in any such deal. The Jets are driving quite the tough bargain, but they're also well aware Fitzpatrick has no leverage beyond retirement. ESPN's Adam Schefter believes this saga could continue to drag on for "a while."
Related: Jets
These teams always want to take the high road and keep the negotiations out of the media, right up to the day they start leaking to the media what these spoiled players won't accept. Maybe this is the first lie the Jets have made with regard to how much they have been offering Fitz. Maybe. Didn't they already chase a LT that hadn't missed a game for a decade into retirement over $ and replace him with a cheap knock-off made out of paper mache? I thought the whole reason they were desperate not to live up to their deal with Brick was because they said they needed to give that $ to Fitz? The Jets appear to be bailing sea water onto the deck of the Titanic, and CLE gets labeled as "tanking" when they release... Brian Hartline?
Hankmoody
Footballguy
You didn't answer the questions. What makes you think this is Fitzpatrick's last contract? I didn't cite Eli/Rivers/Ben to compare skill sets, I cited them because most people believe they all have plenty of years left in them and yet Fitzpatrick is younger than all of them. Plenty of QB's are playing until their 40's.
What leads you to believe Fitzpatrick would get fat and happy with a new contract? He's never done so in the past, not even when he got a then monster deal from Buffalo. He's signed a multitude of backup deals and been ready and able each time when called on. There's zero history of him getting lazy.
What leads you to believe Fitzpatrick would get fat and happy with a new contract? He's never done so in the past, not even when he got a then monster deal from Buffalo. He's signed a multitude of backup deals and been ready and able each time when called on. There's zero history of him getting lazy.
I agree with you that asking for Geno is a bit crazy and that Fitz won't get fat and happy, but only the most elite players are playing close to 40 (how many have their been? 2-3? I'm not counting steady backup types who don't actually play). In reality, if Fitz gets a 3 year deal, it'll probably be his last contract. He might not be good enough for people to want to pay him several million a year to sit behind a starter. I'd think they would rather use that roster spot to develop someone with upside. Additionally, he's too error prone. When you sign a backup like Hasselbeck, if he gets in the game, you want him to just be a game manager. Fitz turns it over too much to play that role.
Again, I like Fitz and I mostly agree with you, but this is his last shot to cash in. He seems like a really good guy and might be able to sell himself as a player-coach to help develop a project QB3 while he's the QB2 so that a team would pay him to be a backup, but he doesn't have the skill set to be one of those guys still playing in the league at or near 40.
TLEF316
Footballguy
It's not a matter of lying. The jets physically can't sign a 1 year ,12 million dollar deal. They don't have the cap space. And as far as I know, they've already done all the obvious space saving moves they had this winter.
I honestly don't know how they're gonna fit him in at this point without signing wilkerson to a long term deal that lowers his 2016 can hit (or god forbid trade him)
I honestly don't know how they're gonna fit him in at this point without signing wilkerson to a long term deal that lowers his 2016 can hit (or god forbid trade him)
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
some of the responses here are so odd.
The "Texas sized contract" the Jets are offering is exceeded on a per year basis by 22 QBs in the NFL right now. Add say 8 rookie contracts for starters and this "huge" contract would make Fitz about the 2nd lowest paid vet starter in the league.
As to his stumble in week 17? Without him the other 15 games the Jets aren't sniffing the playoffs. They are in win-now mode (witness the Forte deal) and you want to move forward with Smith? That's astounding. Playing for a top 10 draft pick with a win-now roster.
The knock on Fitz? He'll make some mistakes taking some chances to challenge downfield. Well, with Marshall and Decker I sure want a QB who is going to do that instead of trying to "Alex Smith" his way through games.
.
The "Texas sized contract" the Jets are offering is exceeded on a per year basis by 22 QBs in the NFL right now. Add say 8 rookie contracts for starters and this "huge" contract would make Fitz about the 2nd lowest paid vet starter in the league.
As to his stumble in week 17? Without him the other 15 games the Jets aren't sniffing the playoffs. They are in win-now mode (witness the Forte deal) and you want to move forward with Smith? That's astounding. Playing for a top 10 draft pick with a win-now roster.
The knock on Fitz? He'll make some mistakes taking some chances to challenge downfield. Well, with Marshall and Decker I sure want a QB who is going to do that instead of trying to "Alex Smith" his way through games.
.
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