Raiders are on the Clock (1 Viewer)

[One]

That arm....oh my....that arm....:sigh:

That must be exactly what AD is thinking and will be thinking the next 4 months LOL.

With that arm and good mobility, imagine if they could find an imaginitive OC to join the team. Seems like the latter is the hardest part though.

 

[-OZ-]

Look at the Jets blueprint - Brick at #4 and Mangold at the end of the 1st rd did wonders for their terrible OL. I can see other teams going that route as well.

Raiders did the same in '04 with Gallery in the first and Grove in the 2nd. Didn't quite work out well.

It helps if your scouting department has a clue and your coaching staff can develop players.Sincerely, disgruntled Lions fan.

 

[jurb26]

Look at the Jets blueprint - Brick at #4 and Mangold at the end of the 1st rd did wonders for their terrible OL. I can see other teams going that route as well.

Raiders did the same in '04 with Gallery in the first and Grove in the 2nd. Didn't quite work out well.

It helps if your scouting department has a clue and your coaching staff can develop players, design an updated playbook and muster anything other than a blocking scheme outdated by 30 years.Sincerely,

disgruntled Lions fan.

Fixed

 

[CalBear]

It was meant more for everyone. And I was referring to the "Trade down" part. Nobody is going to want to pay the price to move up to that #1 spot this year. Especially after seeing what doing so did to the Giants.

The Giants were 4-12 the year they made that deal. Since then, they're 25-23 with two playoff appearances.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

It was meant more for everyone. And I was referring to the "Trade down" part. Nobody is going to want to pay the price to move up to that #1 spot this year. Especially after seeing what doing so did to the Giants.

The Giants were 4-12 the year they made that deal. Since then, they're 25-23 with two playoff appearances.

Fair point, but who is better positioned to win the Super Bowl this year, the Giants or the Chargers?

 

[aposulli]

By the time draft day comes around, I think most of us can agree there will be a consensous #1 QB (Quinn Russell), RB (Peterson), WR (Johnson), OL (Thomas), DT (Branch), DE (Adams)....

Fixed.

 

[aposulli]

Updated:

What I would guess are the chances:

20% Joe Thomas, OT, Wisconsin

20% Calvin Johnson, WR, Georgia Tech

20% JaMarcus Russell, QB, LSU

15% Gaines Adams, DE, Clemson

10% Brady Quinn, QB, Notre Dame

10% Alan Branch, DT, Michigan

5% someone else

 

[Raider Nation]

For those of you now jocking Russell since you saw him play in the Sugar Bowl:

If he and Quinn had switched uniforms, would Russell have led the Domers to a victory?

 

[Andy Dufresne]

For those of you now jocking Russell since you saw him play in the Sugar Bowl:

If he and Quinn had switched uniforms, would Russell have led the Domers to a victory?

No. And Quinn would have looked much better than he did were he playing for LSUIt's hard to get a read on that game as LSU was clearly superior to ND in every phase of the game.

And Brady Quinn should kick Jeff Smardkizizclkkkliciibiiaiaahjjja in the nuts for all the money he cost him the other night.

 

[jurb26]

For those of you now jocking Russell since you saw him play in the Sugar Bowl:

If he and Quinn had switched uniforms, would Russell have led the Domers to a victory?

No. And Quinn would have looked much better than he did were he playing for LSUIt's hard to get a read on that game as LSU was clearly superior to ND in every phase of the game.

And Brady Quinn should kick Jeff Smardkizizclkkkliciibiiaiaahjjja in the nuts for all the money he cost him the other night.

Quinn is still way up. He can thank the ND hype machine and Weis for putting him in the 1st round.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

For those of you now jocking Russell since you saw him play in the Sugar Bowl:

If he and Quinn had switched uniforms, would Russell have led the Domers to a victory?

No. And Quinn would have looked much better than he did were he playing for LSUIt's hard to get a read on that game as LSU was clearly superior to ND in every phase of the game.

And Brady Quinn should kick Jeff Smardkizizclkkkliciibiiaiaahjjja in the nuts for all the money he cost him the other night.

Quinn is still way up. He can thank the ND hype machine and Weis for putting him in the 1st round.

Should he thank Charlie for abandoning the run in the 2nd half and costing him the #1 overall spot too?Man that game made me mad.

 

[Couch Potato]

Amazing how fickle people are, and it's why I don't pay much attention to message board opinions. People were pimping Quinn left and right until the Sugar Bowl, then Russell had a great game and suddenly people are all over his jock instead.

This 'base my opinion on the last game' mentality completely ignores a full college career before that (for both players), and anyone who jumped off one bandwagon and onto the other one just because they happened to see this single game ought to just quit pretending they have any idea who is going to be a better NFL player.

Do I know who will be a better pro? Nope. But at least I don't pretend to. I'd rather admit that than be a lemming.

 

[Colin Dowling]

Amazing how fickle people are, and it's why I don't pay much attention to message board opinions. People were pimping Quinn left and right until the Sugar Bowl, then Russell had a great game and suddenly people are all over his jock instead.This 'base my opinion on the last game' mentality completely ignores a full college career before that (for both players), and anyone who jumped off one bandwagon and onto the other one just because they happened to see this single game ought to just quit pretending they have any idea who is going to be a better NFL player.Do I know who will be a better pro? Nope. But at least I don't pretend to. I'd rather admit that than be a lemming.

Disagree - I haven't heard ANYONE outside of Charlie Weiss and Mel Kiper pimping QUinn. MOst of the talk I've heard is that people don't see what the big deal is with him.

 

[Couch Potato]

Amazing how fickle people are, and it's why I don't pay much attention to message board opinions. People were pimping Quinn left and right until the Sugar Bowl, then Russell had a great game and suddenly people are all over his jock instead.

This 'base my opinion on the last game' mentality completely ignores a full college career before that (for both players), and anyone who jumped off one bandwagon and onto the other one just because they happened to see this single game ought to just quit pretending they have any idea who is going to be a better NFL player.

Do I know who will be a better pro? Nope. But at least I don't pretend to. I'd rather admit that than be a lemming.

Disagree - I haven't heard ANYONE outside of Charlie Weiss and Mel Kiper pimping QUinn. MOst of the talk I've heard is that people don't see what the big deal is with him.

Really? Well, since my comment regards message board posters (not Weiss or Kiper), let's just look at this thread concerning the Raiders taking Quinn #1 overall. All quoted posts suggesting Quinn were pre-Jan 3, before the Sugar Bowl. Russell got hardly a mention before then, and barely a peep about Quinn after the game.Post #13:

I actually want to see Quinn in the Silver & Black. Go Raiders!

Post #19:

If no trade down, which isn't likely, the pick will be Brady Quinn.

Post #22:

Quinn needs to be looking for a place in Oakland. I just can not see the Raiders doing anything else.

Post #33:

Brady Quinn (pre-combine) is looking like teh #1 overall pick for some quite obvious reasons. He has the measurables. Has a great arm that can make all the throws. Makes good decisions. Ran a pro style offense. Had a Pro caliber head coach.

Post #:35

By the time draft day comes around, I think most of us can agree there will be a consensous #1 QB (Quinn), RB (Peterson), WR (Johnson), OL (Thomas), DT (Branch), DE (Adams)....

Post #36:

You can get a franchise RB in free agency a lot easier than a franchise QB. Take your chances on Quinn and do as Silver & Black said with the idea of rebuilding from the inside out.

Post #43:

Now that we have the #1 pick, Quinn is in play. And if he's rated a franchise QB, then that's who I want to take.

Post #46:

Quinn or Joe Thomas would be fine picks. As a Lions fan, I'm hoping the Raiders take the franchise QB and we get the OL help needed.

 

[Couch Potato]

More (a message board post only allows so many quotes apparently, so I'm finishing my post here):

Post #55:

I think Johnson and Thomas have to be the front-runners, with Quinn trailing somewhat behind in third. This team has the foundation of a pretty good defense. What they really need are leaders on offense.

Post #64:

Just Quinn Baby.

Post #68:

Here's my recipe for the Raiders:

- Draft Quinn with the first overall pick. Get rid of Brooks, he's garbage. Quinn and Walter will be good competition for the starting job.

Post #74:

The Raider's passed on Big Ben, Rivers, Leinart and Cutler. Any of these would have provided stability at the QB position for years to come. Taking Brad Quinn here is the right call.

Now, to your credit, Colin, in post #104 (before the Sugar Bowl) you said:

Russell could throw 4 picks tomorrow and still end up as the #1 player drafted. Scouts love arm strenght because coaches and OCs start thinking of all the unbelievable passes they can work in to the offense.

...but that clearly was NOT what others were saying until the game was played. Everyone wanting a QB for OAK wanted Quinn before the game, and not a single positive comment about him in this thread after the game. Instead, all the talk now is about Russell. Hence my comment that message board posters are fickle. To emphasize my point, one poster even "fixed" his own previous post, in post #157, where he lined through Quinn's name and replaced it with Russell and then said "Fixed."

 

[EBF]

You can't discount the impact that one huge game can have on a guy's draft stock. I suspect that Carson Palmer and Vince Young each made themselves some big time money by putting up big showings against Notre Dame and USC in their final years respectively.

Personally, I never liked Quinn, but I certainly saw him as the front-runner for the QB1 slot, which would automatically have made him a contender to go in the top few picks of the draft.

Now that Russell had a monster game on a big stage, I think there's a very real chance that he leapfrogged Quinn. Fair? I don't know, but that seems to be the way it works sometimes. Scouts aren't immune to hype.

 

[Couch Potato]

You can't discount the impact that one huge game can have on a guy's draft stock. I suspect that Carson Palmer and Vince Young each made themselves some big time money by putting up big showings against Notre Dame and USC in their final years respectively. Personally, I never liked Quinn, but I certainly saw him as the front-runner for the QB1 slot, which would automatically have made him a contender to go in the top few picks of the draft. Now that Russell had a monster game on a big stage, I think there's a very real chance that he leapfrogged Quinn. Fair? I don't know, but that seems to be the way it works sometimes. Scouts aren't immune to hype.

I said above that I don't know who will be better, and my point wasn't to support Quinn, only that I'm amused at how easily people are swayed by one game. Personally, I'm awaiting the broad jump, Wonderlic, and shuttle cone results before I decide. Important stuff, that. Nevermind 20-30 college games to evaluate, I want my shuttle cone results!

 

[EBF]

You can't discount the impact that one huge game can have on a guy's draft stock. I suspect that Carson Palmer and Vince Young each made themselves some big time money by putting up big showings against Notre Dame and USC in their final years respectively. Personally, I never liked Quinn, but I certainly saw him as the front-runner for the QB1 slot, which would automatically have made him a contender to go in the top few picks of the draft. Now that Russell had a monster game on a big stage, I think there's a very real chance that he leapfrogged Quinn. Fair? I don't know, but that seems to be the way it works sometimes. Scouts aren't immune to hype.

I said above that I don't know who will be better, and my point wasn't to support Quinn, only that I'm amused at how easily people are swayed by one game. Personally, I'm awaiting the broad jump, Wonderlic, and shuttle cone results before I decide. Important stuff, that. Nevermind 20-30 college games to evaluate, I want my shuttle cone results!

Don't knock it.

 

[Couch Potato]

Hey, I have a stat line for a QB who really sucked on a big stage:

23-47 (48.9%), 237 yards (5.0 YPA), 1 TD, 4 INT, his team lost 24-14.

Oh yeah, that was some guy named Peyton Manning in the 2003 playoffs against the Patriots.

See how misleading putting one game under a microscope can be?

 

[Colin Dowling]

Hey, I have a stat line for a QB who really sucked on a big stage:

23-47 (48.9%), 237 yards (5.0 YPA), 1 TD, 4 INT, his team lost 24-14.

Oh yeah, that was some guy named Peyton Manning in the 2003 playoffs against the Patriots.

See how misleading putting one game under a microscope can be?

Quinn has been fair-to-poor in his last 4 big games....Ohio State, Michigan, USC, and LSU.Comparing a guy who has looked bad against top-tier college D's to a guy who was bested by the eventual Super bowl champs is a stretch.

 

[Couch Potato]

I'm through in this thread, Colin. First you said no one is pimping Quinn, a totally off base statement if you'd even read this thread containing a bunch of quotes doing so. Then you suggest I'm somehow comparing Quinn and Manning. The Manning example was only to point out that one game shouldn't radically change one's idea about a player (Quinn, Russell, or anyone else). You're looking for an argument concerning Quinn whom I'm not even trying to support, and I'm just not interested.

My point is very simple, but apparently lost on you. Those who believed in Quinn before the Sugar Bowl should still do so and not bail after the Sugar Bowl, suddenly being in love with Russell because of that one game. That was the point. Don't make it more than it is.

Be well.

 

[Chaos Commish]

 

[One]

FWIW, This guy thinks Davis is between Peterson & Russell.

With the first choice in next April’s draft, Davis is looking at choosing between two juniors – LSU quarterback JaMarcus Russell and Oklahoma running back Adrian Peterson with the first overall choice. Davis was high last year on Texas quarterback Vince Young, who was named offensive rookie of the year earlier in the week after winning eight starts with the Tennesse Titans. Russell appears to have a better arm than Young and a better sense of the pro passing game, although he doesn’t possess Young’s running speed.

LINK

 

[Colin Dowling]

Missed all the quotes, Couch. I get tunnell vision, so my apologies. At the risk of sounding rude, let me put it another way: It is often wise to disregard message board postings from folks who don't comment often and informatively on subjects. In other words, I LIVE for the draft, and I've been all about Russell and all-against Quinn for some time. I am crummy with a number of things in football, but I feel like I know young talent. My comment was that of other minds that I feel that know young talent, only Weiss and Kiper were jocking Quinn.

ETA: You can't blame folks for seeing QUinn as the top QB all year. He has gotten a TON more press then anyone else (including Troy Smith, who won the Heisman) and was issued the de facto #1 pick status by a lazy college press corps last March. Fans want to see their teams succeed, and want to see them with a great QB. The reporting this year made is seem - incorrectly - that Quinn was that guy. Russell playing great with everyone's attention brought him to the forefront of discussion, which should make fans of teams who THOUGHT they wanted Quinn happy; now they have choices, which is a good thing.

Sorry you got so riled up.

 

[aDingoAteMyBaby]

Russell playing great with everyone's attention brought him to the forefront of discussion, which should make fans of teams who THOUGHT they wanted Quinn happy; now they have choices, which is a good thing.

Absolutely right. As a Raider fan I was not very happy when all we had was Quinn at the #1 spot. Having the option of Russell is great. I'm in the camp that believes the team needs a franchise player at that spot that will change the face of the team for the next decade. In my opinion, Russell is that guy. We'll have a new coaching scheme next year that hopefully addresses the o-line situation and keeps one or both of Moss and his sister Porter around next year. I suspect our draft might look like this:Rd 1: QBRd 2: TE or OTRd 3: OT or TERd 4: RBRd 5: OT or GRd 5b: DTRd 6: CRd 7: WR or TE (typical)They'll give Jordan the benefit of the doubt and re-sign Fargas to a cheap contract. Moss or Porter will still be here to pair up with Curry (who they'll re-sign), Morant, Gabriel, and maybe a FA WR. Andrew Walter will be our day 1 starter, allowing Russell to play backup until mid-season (assuming the Raiders aren't on a playoff run), and Brooks gets cut. They'll also bring in some vet QB like Brad Johnson or Bledsoe to (assuming either is willing to play on a 1 year backup contract). The key though is getting an young offensive minded coach and a zone blocking o-line coach. Unfortunately, we've set back our o-line a year with Art's antiquated "punch them in the mouth" philosophy, but it can be fixed. I'd love to see a guy like Gibbs take this on as a pet project.

 

[Couch Potato]

Missed all the quotes, Couch. I get tunnell vision, so my apologies. At the risk of sounding rude, let me put it another way: It is often wise to disregard message board postings from folks who don't comment often and informatively on subjects. In other words, I LIVE for the draft, and I've been all about Russell and all-against Quinn for some time. I am crummy with a number of things in football, but I feel like I know young talent. My comment was that of other minds that I feel that know young talent, only Weiss and Kiper were jocking Quinn.

ETA: You can't blame folks for seeing QUinn as the top QB all year. He has gotten a TON more press then anyone else (including Troy Smith, who won the Heisman) and was issued the de facto #1 pick status by a lazy college press corps last March. Fans want to see their teams succeed, and want to see them with a great QB. The reporting this year made is seem - incorrectly - that Quinn was that guy. Russell playing great with everyone's attention brought him to the forefront of discussion, which should make fans of teams who THOUGHT they wanted Quinn happy; now they have choices, which is a good thing.

Sorry you got so riled up.

We're good, Colin. A couple of Friday night beers and I did get a little frustrated with you last night. But that's just how I am, and it goes away quickly.You certainly were supporting Russell before the Sugar Bowl, ahead of Quinn. When I was quoting posts and commenting on the fickle nature of message board posters I was sure to separate you from the crowd.

And I agree 100% with your ETA.

 

[krsone21]

I was one who was pimping JaMarcus Russell before the sugar bowl as well. I have watched him all year and have been impressed. As a life long Raider fan I would love to have him over Brady Quinn on my team.

 

[Whiplash Inc.]

We need to draft the new face of the franchise with the first overall selection, whether it's Russell, Peterson, Thomas or Johnson. It has to be a difference maker.

At least all 4 are solid option IMO. Not a fan of Quinn personally, which is why I didn't list him.

 

[Whiplash Inc.]

I still like Whisenhunt to get the job. Haven't heard many people about Norm Chow though, which is kinda surprising.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

I still like Whisenhunt to get the job. Haven't heard many people about Norm Chow though, which is kinda surprising.

Whisenhunt turned down the Raiders job when it was offered to him last year.