sho nuff
Footballguy
Looks like we will be following a similar path...though, with yours obviously ramping up a bit more with the 18/70 and your paces.Nice run.
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Ran a 10k in June
- Thread starter GStrot
- Start date
beer 302
Footballguy
Had an awesome workout this morning. For everyone complaining about the weather I feel you, SC has been a bear lately and today was looking to be no exception. I always look at the weather before I head just to see how much fun I'm in for and after a good hard rain yesterday I was surprised to see for the first time in two weeks that the temp WASN'T 73° & 93% humidity. 70° and 99% humidity! So I thought it's going to be a bear, man I was off. that 3° drop was HUGE! Sweated like a pig but it was cool out so it was fantastic weather to be out there.
Rode the bike 4 miles down to work, ran 4 good hard miles around the stadium and 4 miles back on the bike. The last time I did this circuit was early May (when it was still bearable to run) and I bested that time by by almost 3 minutes and felt fantastic when i was done. The hills on this run used to wear me out, today I was sprinting up them angry. Was thinking of going longer but had to get back and I'm doing intervals tomorrow in the same place so I shut it down.
Rode the bike 4 miles down to work, ran 4 good hard miles around the stadium and 4 miles back on the bike. The last time I did this circuit was early May (when it was still bearable to run) and I bested that time by by almost 3 minutes and felt fantastic when i was done. The hills on this run used to wear me out, today I was sprinting up them angry. Was thinking of going longer but had to get back and I'm doing intervals tomorrow in the same place so I shut it down.
gruecd
Footballguy
Honestly, that's a fair question. I know I don't want it enough to drag my ### out of bed at 4:00 every morning to beat this ridiculous heat. And I'm not sure if I want it enough to suffer through a sweaty slog later in the day.Just hoping that eventually Mother Nature will give us a break...
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
This is one those things that's been on my mind recently. It's weird how 6 or 7 tempo miles can be really hard, despite the fact that we run half marathons at just a slightly slower pace. I agree with Ned that the shorter ones are kind of fun, in part because they're a nice break from all the relaxed running you do most other days (at least until the VO2 sessions start popping up). But they're a lot harder than what you'd expect from just reading the description on paper.Oh, and awesome workouts, guys, especially those of you starting up the new Pfitz cycles!!!!!!
Ned - The shorter tempo runs are fine, but I think the 12/7T is the single hardest workout in 18/70.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
Great workouts, guys! 
Dewpoint in the mid-60s this a.m. in Chi-town (I figure ...it's 69 now, two hours later). I decided to hit the track since that gives me the most walking time (between reps) 
.
3 sets of 2 x 400m, 2 x 200m with one minute breaks after each of the four reps and a five minute walk-around between sets. Pacing was really strong: 400s @ :85, 200s @ :39.
Dewpoint in the mid-60s this a.m. in Chi-town (I figure ...it's 69 now, two hours later). I decided to hit the track since that gives me the most walking time (between reps) .3 sets of 2 x 400m, 2 x 200m with one minute breaks after each of the four reps and a five minute walk-around between sets. Pacing was really strong: 400s @ :85, 200s @ :39.
gruecd
Footballguy
My friends and I add the temperature and the dew point to get the "misery index." Temp + dew point of 90-100 is probably ideal, but anything below 130 is pretty much OK to go for the fast time (maybe 120 for longer distances, say 1/2 marathon or above.) Between 130-150 will see a gradual slowdown in pace, and if it’s above 150, forget pace and just focus on finishing.Nice! Relative Humidity can be misleading. Dew point is going to be a more accurate measure of how humid it feels out there.Right now we have 52% humidity with a dew point of 67. There's no way in hell that 52% is 'nice'. 67 is down right gross.
My link
Ned
Footballguy
You are flyin', my friend!Great workouts, guys!
Ned
Footballguy
That's funny. I was contemplating this on Sunday when I was sweating buckets. The misery index at 5am Sunday was 151. Sounds pretty accurate!My friends and I add the temperature and the dew point to get the "misery index." Temp + dew point of 90-100 is probably ideal, but anything below 130 is pretty much OK to go for the fast time (maybe 120 for longer distances, say 1/2 marathon or above.) Between 130-150 will see a gradual slowdown in pace, and if it’s above 150, forget pace and just focus on finishing.Nice! Relative Humidity can be misleading. Dew point is going to be a more accurate measure of how humid it feels out there.
My link
tri-man 47
Footballguy
You too ...we're MACing our pacing.You are flyin', my friend!Great workouts, guys!
beer 302
Footballguy
Funny, there is a very experienced marathoner here that I talk to all the time and he tipped me to this little nugget a few weeks ago, since then its been above 150 every single mother####ing day.Dewpoint was 70° this morning. Ned is the resident nerd of stats & data in this thread isn't he?That's funny. I was contemplating this on Sunday when I was sweating buckets. The misery index at 5am Sunday was 151. Sounds pretty accurate!My friends and I add the temperature and the dew point to get the "misery index." Temp + dew point of 90-100 is probably ideal, but anything below 130 is pretty much OK to go for the fast time (maybe 120 for longer distances, say 1/2 marathon or above.) Between 130-150 will see a gradual slowdown in pace, and if it’s above 150, forget pace and just focus on finishing.Nice! Relative Humidity can be misleading. Dew point is going to be a more accurate measure of how humid it feels out there.
My link
gruecd
Footballguy
I think 2Young would take offense to that....
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Droppin' science like Galileo dropped the orange.
MAC_32
Footballguy
You too ...we're MACing our pacing.You are flyin', my friend!Great workouts, guys!
MAC_32
Footballguy
I can get behind this. 91/72 when sprinting yesterday, feeling better about struggles. 88/70 now, expecting 93/73, maybe I won't be stroller running today!My friends and I add the temperature and the dew point to get the "misery index." Temp + dew point of 90-100 is probably ideal, but anything below 130 is pretty much OK to go for the fast time (maybe 120 for longer distances, say 1/2 marathon or above.) Between 130-150 will see a gradual slowdown in pace, and if it’s above 150, forget pace and just focus on finishing.Nice! Relative Humidity can be misleading. Dew point is going to be a more accurate measure of how humid it feels out there.
My link
2Young2BBald
Footbaldguy
I think 2Young would take offense to that....
Ned's the latest in a line of s, taking it to a whole new and different level. I consider myself equal parts nerd, neurotic and OCD. Seems to work for me. 
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
135 miles through 100+ degree heat, beginning in the lowest spot in the US, up and over three mountain ranges, and then finishing at 8300' on Mt. Whitney - and Mike Morton misses the Badwater course record by 1 minute!
Badwater Live Results
Equally amazing is that there are runners out there that won't finish for another 24+ hours!
Badwater Live Results
Equally amazing is that there are runners out there that won't finish for another 24+ hours!
pmbrown_22
Footballguy
Hey all. Good hot training going on in here.
Went out and noon today and did 6 miles. Me and a couple of other guys here went out and did a tribute run for the Badwater race going on. Not sure how they do 135 in this stuff, but it is definitely something to be amazed at.
Have a great day all.
Went out and noon today and did 6 miles. Me and a couple of other guys here went out and did a tribute run for the Badwater race going on. Not sure how they do 135 in this stuff, but it is definitely something to be amazed at.
Have a great day all.
Ned
Footballguy
I don't have the vocabulary to express how insane this is.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
beer 302
Footballguy
Notebook updated for future'2Young2BBald said:'gruecd said:I think 2Young would take offense to that....'beer 302 said:
What ubernerd said
I thought the one that you ran in was nuts Duck. This is nuts x 135
comfortably numb
Footballguy
So which one of you freaks is the dude running barefoot?
I have seen 1 or 2 guys do the barefoot thing at each race.
What is up with that? Is this training for a marathon in Kenya or something?
I have seen 1 or 2 guys do the barefoot thing at each race.
What is up with that? Is this training for a marathon in Kenya or something?
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
How about 70 year old Arthur Webb, who is currently in 12th, 122 miles in 29:49. This is his 15th, and final (so he says), Badwater.
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Ned
Footballguy
'2Young2BBald said:'gruecd said:I think 2Young would take offense to that....'beer 302 said:
You just described me to a T. 
Sand
Footballguy
Another humdrum day. 29 mile ride in New Orleans type weather (90/60). Defended my KOM status from last year by blasting everyone off the big hill on our route (340ft. in 1.3 miles). Started off with 6 folks in front and we started shelling people off the back. I waited until about 2/3 of the way up and pulled out and went (only 2 of us by that time). Was in front by a good 150yds at the top. 
Set another power record for 4 minutes at 342 watts. (For those not in the know, that's about 600 less than BnB and PSL, but pretty good for me.)
Set another power record for 4 minutes at 342 watts. (For those not in the know, that's about 600 less than BnB and PSL, but pretty good for me.)
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Ned
Footballguy
Day 2, week 1 of Pfitz 18/70 - 11mi MLR
Out the door at 5AM again today. 81/71 (152 misery index
) was down right miserable. Slogged through it with the sole focus on keeping the HR in the low 140s. I lost that battle around mile 8 when it steadily crept towards 150. At that point I just did my best to finish the miles without pushing the pace. Ended up at 9:38/145.
Out the door at 5AM again today. 81/71 (152 misery index
) was down right miserable. Slogged through it with the sole focus on keeping the HR in the low 140s. I lost that battle around mile 8 when it steadily crept towards 150. At that point I just did my best to finish the miles without pushing the pace. Ended up at 9:38/145.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Any particular time goal for Philly, or are you waiting to see how training goes?Day 2, week 1 of Pfitz 18/70 - 11mi MLROut the door at 5AM again today. 81/71 (152 misery index
sho nuff
Footballguy
9mi MLR for me at some point today.Likely after the sun goes down when its still about 85/70...I expect it to be miserable.The downside of the stay at home dad thing...is when the wife needs to get out the door early, I would have had to have been up at 4 to run...it would not have been pretty.Will be happy when the kids get back to school...but that means not running til 9am and it will be nice and hot by then too.Day 2, week 1 of Pfitz 18/70 - 11mi MLROut the door at 5AM again today. 81/71 (152 misery index
Ned
Footballguy
I'd be lying if I said I haven't thought about this, but I'm not going to cement a goal time until after my HM tune-up in September. Since I had to put a seed time in when I registered, I put 3:50, which was last year's goal time. We'll see.I've learned some hard lessons with this distance and know anything can happen, so I'm very guarded (mentally) about picking a time.Any particular time goal for Philly, or are you waiting to see how training goes?Day 2, week 1 of Pfitz 18/70 - 11mi MLROut the door at 5AM again today. 81/71 (152 misery index
gruecd
Footballguy
Decent 10-mile run yesterday afternoon. While it was still humid, a storm came through and dropped the temp by 15-20 degrees into the mid-70s, so that was nice. Ran the first 5 in 41:52, then picked it up a little bit and ran the last 5 in 40:36. Overall average was 8:15/mile. No walk breaks (for a change), and I only had to stop once to re-fill my handheld.
I forget what it's like to run in cold weather, but I'm thinking it's going to be GLORIOUS.
I forget what it's like to run in cold weather, but I'm thinking it's going to be GLORIOUS.
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jb1020
Footballguy
I think you'll surprise yourself this year. Just avoid the pre race rocket poop.I'd be lying if I said I haven't thought about this, but I'm not going to cement a goal time until after my HM tune-up in September. Since I had to put a seed time in when I registered, I put 3:50, which was last year's goal time. We'll see.I've learned some hard lessons with this distance and know anything can happen, so I'm very guarded (mentally) about picking a time.Any particular time goal for Philly, or are you waiting to see how training goes?Day 2, week 1 of Pfitz 18/70 - 11mi MLROut the door at 5AM again today. 81/71 (152 misery index
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I thought that might be the case, but I wanted to ask anyway in case I just missed it somewhere. The fact that marathons require such a large time committment in terms of preparation, with so little prospect for a do-over if race day doesn't go well, kind of sours me on the event a bit. I know a lot of people thrive on the risk-reward ratio of this distance, but I wonder sometimes if I wouldn't be happier just focusing on HMs, where if you have a bad race you can try again next month. But then you wouldn't have the excuse to pack on the miles and really push yourself.I'd be lying if I said I haven't thought about this, but I'm not going to cement a goal time until after my HM tune-up in September. Since I had to put a seed time in when I registered, I put 3:50, which was last year's goal time. We'll see.I've learned some hard lessons with this distance and know anything can happen, so I'm very guarded (mentally) about picking a time.Any particular time goal for Philly, or are you waiting to see how training goes?Day 2, week 1 of Pfitz 18/70 - 11mi MLROut the door at 5AM again today. 81/71 (152 misery index
Ned
Footballguy
I definitely hear ya on that. Those thoughts crossed my mind after last years rocket-poop race. All that prep only to #### the bed? But ultimately I'm not going to stop until I master this distance. I've never seen myself as an endurance guy (more of a speed guy), so it's become a big challenge. I have come to 'hate' the gap from my 5K to marathon times and am obsessed with it.What's stopping you from doing Pfitz type work for a HM? If I decided to specialize in the HM, I'd end up doing something very similar to the 18/55 with the only tweak being a bit more speed work sprinkled in.I thought that might be the case, but I wanted to ask anyway in case I just missed it somewhere. The fact that marathons require such a large time committment in terms of preparation, with so little prospect for a do-over if race day doesn't go well, kind of sours me on the event a bit. I know a lot of people thrive on the risk-reward ratio of this distance, but I wonder sometimes if I wouldn't be happier just focusing on HMs, where if you have a bad race you can try again next month. But then you wouldn't have the excuse to pack on the miles and really push yourself.I'd be lying if I said I haven't thought about this, but I'm not going to cement a goal time until after my HM tune-up in September. Since I had to put a seed time in when I registered, I put 3:50, which was last year's goal time. We'll see.I've learned some hard lessons with this distance and know anything can happen, so I'm very guarded (mentally) about picking a time.Any particular time goal for Philly, or are you waiting to see how training goes?Day 2, week 1 of Pfitz 18/70 - 11mi MLROut the door at 5AM again today. 81/71 (152 misery index
tri-man 47
Footballguy
Very good points.--I stayed indoors this a.m., but still worked up a good sweat. 250 lunges, 100 squats, 50 squat jumps, 100 kettlebell swings. I probably won't be able to walk down the stairs tomorrow.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
This is basically what I did for my last half. Every week for a couple of months looked something like this:Sun: 10 w/ 6 @ LT or 5 x 800 (alternated each week)
Mon: 5 recovery
Tue: 10 GA
Wed: SDO
Thu: 13-15
Fri: 5 recovery
Sat: SDO
Not exactly 18/55, but you can see the Pfitz influences there. This could easily be adjusted a little to build the long run a tad. I could also handle a few weeks with both a VO2 session and a tempo session (never done this before, but I will be about a month from now).
beer 302
Footballguy
Interval day this morning. Suck factor back to normal, 145 @ 4:07 am 
Went better than last time but I still tailed off miserably at the end. I think I just need to adjust my mindset when doing this workout. run hard (but not too hard) for essentially a sprint rather than pacing yourself over a few mile distance. I don't do these enough to have gotten comfortably with the adjustments in pacing necessary. Time cures all I guess. Hopped in the truck and lifted for about a 1/2 half hour before heading home. Nothing like slipping into a sweat soaked seat in the work garb SteelCurtain
Footballguy
I agree. I'm running Philly and would love to break 3:30. I think Ned will be closer to me than he thinks. I'm hoping he considers running with me.I think you'll surprise yourself this year. Just avoid the pre race rocket poop.I'd be lying if I said I haven't thought about this, but I'm not going to cement a goal time until after my HM tune-up in September. Since I had to put a seed time in when I registered, I put 3:50, which was last year's goal time. We'll see.I've learned some hard lessons with this distance and know anything can happen, so I'm very guarded (mentally) about picking a time.Any particular time goal for Philly, or are you waiting to see how training goes?Day 2, week 1 of Pfitz 18/70 - 11mi MLROut the door at 5AM again today. 81/71 (152 misery index
Well I've been a slug lately and am paying the price.
mile 1 - 8:48, 127 hr
mile 2 - 8:55, 144 hr
mile 3 - 9:10, 143 hr
mile 4 - 9:35, 149 hr
mile 5 - 9:04, 157 hr
mile 6 - 8:51, 165 hr
Threshold hr is 165-167 for me. Ran the last 1/2 mi slowly in the VO2max zone.
mile 1 - 8:48, 127 hr
mile 2 - 8:55, 144 hr
mile 3 - 9:10, 143 hr
mile 4 - 9:35, 149 hr
mile 5 - 9:04, 157 hr
mile 6 - 8:51, 165 hr
Threshold hr is 165-167 for me. Ran the last 1/2 mi slowly in the VO2max zone.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I'm a living example that a do-over is quite possible. If your marathon in early October doesn't go well (due to weather, cramps, illness, whatever) I think you could run another between mid to late October and early November without much additional training.
beer 302
Footballguy
Finished up a good 4.5 this morning. Weather cooperated and I felt great at the end. Day off tomorrow to go to Biltmore And then the weekly long run Saturday morning
Question for you guys, on these "just racking up some miles" runs I try to work on form or breathing or something to occupy my mind. I noticed today that my form is a lot better going up a hill then it is on flat surfaces. Do you find that to be the case as well or am I just over analyzing?
And then the weekly long run Saturday morning Question for you guys, on these "just racking up some miles" runs I try to work on form or breathing or something to occupy my mind. I noticed today that my form is a lot better going up a hill then it is on flat surfaces. Do you find that to be the case as well or am I just over analyzing?
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Yeah, I was actually thinking about your Green Bay experience and eventual BQ while I was typing this up. To be fair, though, it's more than just retaining fitness. Depending on where you live, job committments, etc., it can be tough-to-impossible to find a backup event without shelling out for a plane ticket. I'm assuming the marathon calendar gets pretty bare in the upper midwest once you get past Twin Cities and Chicago. _____________________'Juxtatarot said:
Another early rise for an 11 mile MLR. In honor of Ned, I checked the dew point before leaving the house -- 63 with 67 air temp. Nice, easy, comfortable run. Since I was feeling good, I decided to go ahead and mix in the strides I was supposed to do tomorrow. With those out of the way, I can sleep in and do tomorrow's GA run on the treadmill if it comes to that. (I just can't do strides on the TM).
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
An old running cliche is that "hills are speedwork in disguise." Speedwork generally improves form, so I guess it stands to reason that hills would as well.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Went out at 8:45 last night for my 9 mile GA run.82/71...153 misery factor and it was felt.Just a soupy run the whole way.10:20/153 AVG...HR just kept creeping the whole time in that.Day 2, week 1 of Pfitz 18/70 - 11mi MLROut the door at 5AM again today. 81/71 (152 misery index
Ned
Footballguy
That would be pretty damn cool. But unless some amazing things happen in this cycle, I don't think I'm ready for 3:30.'SteelCurtain said:I agree. I'm running Philly and would love to break 3:30. I think Ned will be closer to me than he thinks. I'm hoping he considers running with me.I think you'll surprise yourself this year. Just avoid the pre race rocket poop.I'd be lying if I said I haven't thought about this, but I'm not going to cement a goal time until after my HM tune-up in September. Since I had to put a seed time in when I registered, I put 3:50, which was last year's goal time. We'll see.I've learned some hard lessons with this distance and know anything can happen, so I'm very guarded (mentally) about picking a time.Any particular time goal for Philly, or are you waiting to see how training goes?Day 2, week 1 of Pfitz 18/70 - 11mi MLROut the door at 5AM again today. 81/71 (152 misery index
tri-man 47
Footballguy
Hills get you on the balls of your feet versus landing on your heels. So, yeah, good form!
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
You're from South Dakota, right? Obviously, that's going to be be tougher. I did a quick marathon search around Chicago and noticed the Indianpolis Marathon on October 20 and another in Libertyville, IL (suburban Chicago) on that same day. One of those could be a backup for me if I was shooting for a PR in Chicago (I'm not). You might want to spend a few minutes and search around. You might be surprised. It might also give you some peace of mind while training.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Huh. I didn't even know Indianapolis had a marathon -- they have an awesome HM in the spring, but this event is news to me. My wife and I both grew up in Indiana and lived in the central part of the state for 9 years (college and grad school), so this might be a fun one to do sometime.