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Ran a 10k in June (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter GStrot
- Start date
Ned
Footballguy
Doubles can be tough if you're not used to them. I'd probably ease myself into them doing say 1 a week for a couple of weeks. That's a lot of doubles to jump right into....
When you do a double, I think you should run the hard workout first with the recovery (easy) run second. Running easy first wont really buy you much and is just going to hamper your hard workout since your legs won't be as fresh as possible. I'd recommend using the AM run as your hard workout (6.2 hill workout) and then run the PM run as a recovery run (3.44).
Unless you're doing so many doubles because of time restraints, I'd probably roll the Thursday run into a straight 10 miler. You'll get a better training stimulus from that vs. the 6/4 split.
What's with the 3.44, btw?
I agree with you on building leg strength first and have a thought on that for ya.... I think one of the biggest things you can do for your endurance/leg strength is to double up (back to back days) on medium long and long runs. Running say 10mi on Monday and follow it up with 13-15mi on Tuesday (just an example).
When you do a double, I think you should run the hard workout first with the recovery (easy) run second. Running easy first wont really buy you much and is just going to hamper your hard workout since your legs won't be as fresh as possible. I'd recommend using the AM run as your hard workout (6.2 hill workout) and then run the PM run as a recovery run (3.44).
Unless you're doing so many doubles because of time restraints, I'd probably roll the Thursday run into a straight 10 miler. You'll get a better training stimulus from that vs. the 6/4 split.
What's with the 3.44, btw?
I agree with you on building leg strength first and have a thought on that for ya.... I think one of the biggest things you can do for your endurance/leg strength is to double up (back to back days) on medium long and long runs. Running say 10mi on Monday and follow it up with 13-15mi on Tuesday (just an example).
Hang 10
Footballguy
For the past several months, I've done 2 workouts a day on MWF. 3.44 miles in the morning (it's a 30 minute loop around my neighborhood...I guess I could have just said 3 1/2 but I was being exact
) and then do a fitness class or strength training at lunch time. So adding in doubles to running on Tuesdays and Thursdays doesn't seem overly difficult...now anyways.I hear what you're saying about flipping the doubles but I guess for me, I like getting loosened up with an easy run and stretch in the morning and then pushing harder in the afternoon. I'm also probably less of a morning person than you are and time wise it's just easier to run out my front door in the morning than to drive to the gym or the park (which are both close to my office making lunch break workouts optimal.)
I do like the idea of fitting in some long back to backs in the though. Just need to figure out how that would work into my schedule and where to rest and recover.
worrierking
Footballguy
I agree with this. I usually pair my second longest run of the week with my long run on back-to-back days. For example last year I ran three 20-milers prior to my marathon on Saturdays and ran 13, 13 and 14 milers on the Sundays following them. I can't really get in runs that long during the week without getting up at 3am.
That being said, I have no doubt Hang will do extremely well with the plan he showed. I like doubles, but hate the extra laundry.
Hang 10
Footballguy
My plan is conserve energy by doing the same amount of laundry and just smelling worse.
spreagle
Footballguy
Brought my 14 almost 15 year old boy to the gym over Christmas and suggested we have a 1 mile race on the treadmill before hitting the weights. I hadn't run a mile for a while and suspected the best I could do was around a 6:40, because that is what I normally do when I run a mile. I seem to hit a wall around that time. He can probably beat me now so I was prepared for a loss and to admit I am no longer faster than him. Well when it came to to start he didnt feel like racing so I said lets just each run a mile at whatever pace we want. So I started running at a pretty decent clip but not trying to break 6 minutes clip then realized at about the half mile point I was feeling pretty good so I finished up like I was racing him, ended with a 6:10 with still gas in the tank. One of my goals is to break 6 one last time before I get too old (47). I usually run alone, I never run races it was suprising what a race can do to my times. That must have been the competitive part of me coming out or something.
Ned
Footballguy
My wife hates when I do this.Recovery runs are your friend. A Mon 10, Tue 13, Wed 3.44 recovery is a staple for marathon training, IMO.
Hang 10
Footballguy
Wait, so you're saying to do my long run Saturday...OFF...10 miles Monday and then 13 Tuesday?
Recovery runs are your friend. A Mon 10, Tue 13, Wed 3.44 recovery is a staple for marathon training, IMO.
Ned
Footballguy
Yep, that was what I always do... I'm a firm believer in piling up those longish runs. All of them at the same effort as you'd run your Sunday long run.Wait, so you're saying to do my long run Saturday...OFF...10 miles Monday and then 13 Tuesday?
Recovery runs are your friend. A Mon 10, Tue 13, Wed 3.44 recovery is a staple for marathon training, IMO.
This is the foundation of my training weeks. I'll mix in more tempo and sprinkle in some VO2 work once I get 6-8 weeks out from the marathon.
Day 1: 5mi recovery or OFF
Day 2: Tuesday 10mi
Day 3: Wednesday 13mi
Day4: 5mi Recovery
Day 5: tempo or another 10ish miles run
Day 6: 5mi recovery
Day 7: long run (16-22)
ChiefD
Footballguy
Ned, do you start this on week 1 of your training cycle for a marathon?Yep, that was what I always do... I'm a firm believer in piling up those longish runs. All of them at the same effort as you'd run your Sunday long run.Wait, so you're saying to do my long run Saturday...OFF...10 miles Monday and then 13 Tuesday?
Recovery runs are your friend. A Mon 10, Tue 13, Wed 3.44 recovery is a staple for marathon training, IMO.
This is the foundation of my training weeks. I'll mix in more tempo and sprinkle in some VO2 work once I get 6-8 weeks out from the marathon.
Day 1: 5mi recovery or OFF
Day 2: Tuesday 10mi
Day 3: Wednesday 13mi
Day4: 5mi Recovery
Day 5: tempo or another 10ish miles run
Day 6: 5mi recovery
Day 7: long run (16-22)
I'm assuming for my first in the fall I won't be anywhere near this, especially as I look at the Higdon Intermediate 1 Plan for my training. But your numbers are so different than his - I'm guessing because of your base and just where you are vs. where I will be at that time.
Or do I need to add more mileage to the Higdon plan?
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Hang 10
Footballguy
Yep, that was what I always do... I'm a firm believer in piling up those longish runs. All of them at the same effort as you'd run your Sunday long run.Wait, so you're saying to do my long run Saturday...OFF...10 miles Monday and then 13 Tuesday?
Recovery runs are your friend. A Mon 10, Tue 13, Wed 3.44 recovery is a staple for marathon training, IMO.
This is the foundation of my training weeks. I'll mix in more tempo and sprinkle in some VO2 work once I get 6-8 weeks out from the marathon.
Day 1: 5mi recovery or OFF
Day 2: Tuesday 10mi
Day 3: Wednesday 13mi
Day4: 5mi Recovery
Day 5: tempo or another 10ish miles run
Day 6: 5mi recovery
Day 7: long run (16-22)
I could maybe manage that next month but I think the mileage is a bit high for me right now.
Ned
Footballguy
It's just a template to give you an idea of how I've liked to train (based on Pfitz). You could scale all of that back to whatever fits your personal needs. Knowing you for some time now, you'll probably be able to pull this off doing 2/3 the mileage that I need since my endurance generally sucks.Yep, that was what I always do... I'm a firm believer in piling up those longish runs. All of them at the same effort as you'd run your Sunday long run.Wait, so you're saying to do my long run Saturday...OFF...10 miles Monday and then 13 Tuesday?
Recovery runs are your friend. A Mon 10, Tue 13, Wed 3.44 recovery is a staple for marathon training, IMO.
This is the foundation of my training weeks. I'll mix in more tempo and sprinkle in some VO2 work once I get 6-8 weeks out from the marathon.
Day 1: 5mi recovery or OFF
Day 2: Tuesday 10mi
Day 3: Wednesday 13mi
Day4: 5mi Recovery
Day 5: tempo or another 10ish miles run
Day 6: 5mi recovery
Day 7: long run (16-22)
I could maybe manage that next month but I think the mileage is a bit high for me right now.
Chief - Being this is your first marathon, I wouldn't go this heavy of mileage. Your goal is to cover 26.2, so there's no need to go nuts. There's certainly nothing wrong with the Higdon plans. I used a number of his plans when I first started out.
I'd still recommend any of you to get the Pfitz book and read the first 4 chapters. No need to follow his plans, but the first 4 chapters are an awesome read on what goes behind each of these workouts.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
I'm a fan of the back-to-back long runs. Using Higdon, I'll typically do 10-14 on Saturday with most of that at a brisk tempo pace and then the long 20-22 miler on Sunday when the legs are tired.
I can't do anything right now, though, until I shake the nasty bug I've picked up.
I can't do anything right now, though, until I shake the nasty bug I've picked up.
Ned
Footballguy
FUBAR
Footballguy
Still on "vacation" taking care of the kids while the wife recovers from her ACL surgery (word to the wise - DON'T TEAR YOUR ACL, recovery sucks)
just under 3 hours on trails this morning while our 4 year old was in pre-school. We have a pretty cool system of bike trails (labeled as difficult, not overly technical) I have never run on before near a trail system I have; did both today, reminded me why I love running. sandy hills, at times it was like running on a beach uphill, but enjoyable. Beautiful day - 40-45 degrees and partly sunny. All was good until 2 hours in when I crossed a creek, roughly 5' wide with the side of the trail somewhat higher so not covered in water; I slow down to cross, using small trees for balance, started to slip and felt like slow motion, reached for another branch, didn't get it, and wound up on my back practically covered in water. Got up, ran the next hour. Wasn't too bad as my shirt and shorts dried out but the gloves didn't so I had to take them off to warm up.
still good day overall, 19 miles @ 9:11 pace, 151 bpm.
just under 3 hours on trails this morning while our 4 year old was in pre-school. We have a pretty cool system of bike trails (labeled as difficult, not overly technical) I have never run on before near a trail system I have; did both today, reminded me why I love running. sandy hills, at times it was like running on a beach uphill, but enjoyable. Beautiful day - 40-45 degrees and partly sunny. All was good until 2 hours in when I crossed a creek, roughly 5' wide with the side of the trail somewhat higher so not covered in water; I slow down to cross, using small trees for balance, started to slip and felt like slow motion, reached for another branch, didn't get it, and wound up on my back practically covered in water. Got up, ran the next hour. Wasn't too bad as my shirt and shorts dried out but the gloves didn't so I had to take them off to warm up.
still good day overall, 19 miles @ 9:11 pace, 151 bpm.
FUBAR
Footballguy
you could just turn on the treadmill and go get a beer.Welp, time to let the fun begin. Currently 8 degrees, feels like -12 with a north wind of 20+, and there's about 4" of snow and an inch of ice on the ground. These 5 miles won't run themsleves though
ChiefD
Footballguy
Yeah, I have one of those coming up tonight. No snow and ice, but all the other good stuff.Welp, time to let the fun begin. Currently 8 degrees, feels like -12 with a north wind of 20+, and there's about 4" of snow and an inch of ice on the ground. These 5 miles won't run themsleves though
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
ooooofYeah, I have one of those coming up tonight. No snow and ice, but all the other good stuff.Welp, time to let the fun begin. Currently 8 degrees, feels like -12 with a north wind of 20+, and there's about 4" of snow and an inch of ice on the ground. These 5 miles won't run themsleves though
61 degrees and sunny for my run today. Yesterday I ran early and it was only high 40s, so I went with long sleeves.
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
CGRdrJoe
Footballguy
I've been running against dr's orders, I've realized that even with the knee pain that I'm a much happier person with running in my life. My pace has gone to #### but I can live with running 4 miles at a 9:30 clip vice not running at all. I'm hoping to hit 5 to 6 miles twice next week and then just stick to that. In order to run I've had to shorten my stride, I almost feel like a duck waddling down the road, which has brought on some inner crotch chaffing 
I've been going heavy on the glide but I'm still getting rubbed raw 
In 2 weeks I start my shots of ortho visc, hopefully that helps with the bone spurs in the kneee but either way I've got to keep getting my runners high in.
I've been going heavy on the glide but I'm still getting rubbed raw In 2 weeks I start my shots of ortho visc, hopefully that helps with the bone spurs in the kneee but either way I've got to keep getting my runners high in.
FUBAR
Footballguy
Would you be better off cycling or doing something else you enjoy? Is running aggravating anything long term?I've been running against dr's orders, I've realized that even with the knee pain that I'm a much happier person with running in my life. My pace has gone to #### but I can live with running 4 miles at a 9:30 clip vice not running at all. I'm hoping to hit 5 to 6 miles twice next week and then just stick to that. In order to run I've had to shorten my stride, I almost feel like a duck waddling down the road, which has brought on some inner crotch chaffing
CGRdrJoe
Footballguy
I talked to the orthopedic about this and he seems to think that the only real solution is a full knee replacement. Work wise that is not even an option right now, so he's told me to do things as tolerable as the damage is done. The hope is that this stuff will last a good 6 months and then I'll get another round of 3 shots. I'm doing 2 days of cycling a week but honestly I just don't get in the same zone I get in while running.Would you be better off cycling or doing something else you enjoy? Is running aggravating anything long term?I've been running against dr's orders, I've realized that even with the knee pain that I'm a much happier person with running in my life. My pace has gone to #### but I can live with running 4 miles at a 9:30 clip vice not running at all. I'm hoping to hit 5 to 6 miles twice next week and then just stick to that. In order to run I've had to shorten my stride, I almost feel like a duck waddling down the road, which has brought on some inner crotch chaffing
For me, it's about the day dreaming that hits me around the first mile right about the time my legs loosen up.
FUBAR
Footballguy
As long as you're not adding to the damage, cool.I talked to the orthopedic about this and he seems to think that the only real solution is a full knee replacement. Work wise that is not even an option right now, so he's told me to do things as tolerable as the damage is done. The hope is that this stuff will last a good 6 months and then I'll get another round of 3 shots. I'm doing 2 days of cycling a week but honestly I just don't get in the same zone I get in while running.For me, it's about the day dreaming that hits me around the first mile right about the time my legs loosen up.Would you be better off cycling or doing something else you enjoy? Is running aggravating anything long term?I've been running against dr's orders, I've realized that even with the knee pain that I'm a much happier person with running in my life. My pace has gone to #### but I can live with running 4 miles at a 9:30 clip vice not running at all. I'm hoping to hit 5 to 6 miles twice next week and then just stick to that. In order to run I've had to shorten my stride, I almost feel like a duck waddling down the road, which has brought on some inner crotch chaffing
Understand about the run zone deal, cycling takes twice the time to get into a similar zone and only really works for me on the road, not trainer. Though I suspect mountain biking would work well too.
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
Hey!I've been running against dr's orders, I've realized that even with the knee pain that I'm a much happier person with running in my life. My pace has gone to #### but I can live with running 4 miles at a 9:30 clip vice not running at all. I'm hoping to hit 5 to 6 miles twice next week and then just stick to that. In order to run I've had to shorten my stride, I almost feel like a duck waddling down the road, which has brought on some inner crotch chaffing
Seriously, get a few pairs of these. They keep your junk in place and chaffage to a minimum. I wore one pair for my entire 100M race and had minimal chaffing - and I'm a fat guy who's thighs rub together.
Sand
Footballguy
1. You're not doing it right.As long as you're not adding to the damage, cool.I talked to the orthopedic about this and he seems to think that the only real solution is a full knee replacement. Work wise that is not even an option right now, so he's told me to do things as tolerable as the damage is done. The hope is that this stuff will last a good 6 months and then I'll get another round of 3 shots. I'm doing 2 days of cycling a week but honestly I just don't get in the same zone I get in while running.For me, it's about the day dreaming that hits me around the first mile right about the time my legs loosen up.Would you be better off cycling or doing something else you enjoy? Is running aggravating anything long term?I've been running against dr's orders, I've realized that even with the knee pain that I'm a much happier person with running in my life. My pace has gone to #### but I can live with running 4 miles at a 9:30 clip vice not running at all. I'm hoping to hit 5 to 6 miles twice next week and then just stick to that. In order to run I've had to shorten my stride, I almost feel like a duck waddling down the road, which has brought on some inner crotch chaffing
Understand about the run zone deal, cycling takes twice the time to get into a similar zone and only really works for me on the road, not trainer. Though I suspect mountain biking would work well too.
2. "Hey, this mountain biking thing is awe... tree!"
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I'm pleased with my running the last several weeks. More recently I've done a lot on the treadmill due to the weather but I really enjoy running tempos and long intervals at the gym (long slow stuff certainly sucks though). Last week I ran 2 separate 6:00 miles (5K PR pace) on the treadmill (1/2 mile jog between) and tonight I did the same but added an additional 1.1 mile at 6:00 pace after the first two. I felt strong enough tonight that I think I'll try to put it all together without the jog breaks and go for a 5K PR* next week.
* On a treadmill so, of course, it wouldn't count.
* On a treadmill so, of course, it wouldn't count.
FUBAR
Footballguy
1. Remember, most of my training this past year was lsd, especially the bike. That's changing now and an hour of sufferfest kicks my ### but it's not as fun as hitting the road on bike or trail running.Eta: plus I've only rode for a couple years now, while I've ran most of my life.1. You're not doing it right.As long as you're not adding to the damage, cool.Understand about the run zone deal, cycling takes twice the time to get into a similar zone and only really works for me on the road, not trainer. Though I suspect mountain biking would work well too.I talked to the orthopedic about this and he seems to think that the only real solution is a full knee replacement. Work wise that is not even an option right now, so he's told me to do things as tolerable as the damage is done. The hope is that this stuff will last a good 6 months and then I'll get another round of 3 shots. I'm doing 2 days of cycling a week but honestly I just don't get in the same zone I get in while running.For me, it's about the day dreaming that hits me around the first mile right about the time my legs loosen up.Would you be better off cycling or doing something else you enjoy? Is running aggravating anything long term?I've been running against dr's orders, I've realized that even with the knee pain that I'm a much happier person with running in my life. My pace has gone to #### but I can live with running 4 miles at a 9:30 clip vice not running at all. I'm hoping to hit 5 to 6 miles twice next week and then just stick to that. In order to run I've had to shorten my stride, I almost feel like a duck waddling down the road, which has brought on some inner crotch chaffing
2. "Hey, this mountain biking thing is awe... tree!"
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MAC_32
Footballguy
Mine was fine last night until I turned west. It had been north all day and weather.com said north when I left, but it shifted sometime in those 30-40 minutes. That last mile was HORRENDOUS. Face was numb when I got done and it took me a good hour to get my breathing back in control afterwards.
Back it again today
Back it again today
ChiefD
Footballguy
Yeah, I got lucky in those regards. Wind died down, and was coming from the northwest a bit. Luckily my neighborhood is set up where I can run a east-west route, with some small turns north to get back on track. Those are the nights I really pay attention to my route planning.Mine was fine last night until I turned west. It had been north all day and weather.com said north when I left, but it shifted sometime in those 30-40 minutes. That last mile was HORRENDOUS. Face was numb when I got done and it took me a good hour to get my breathing back in control afterwards.
Back it again today
I did get about a 1/2 mile facial blast of a northwest wind gust, but I was wearing a mask so it wasn't too bad.And yep, back on track tonight.
Ned
Footballguy
10 days into January and I've ran 3 times. I got sick again - third time in four weeks. 
I feel so fat and out of shape. 
Been focusing on archery a lot. I'm way behind on training for that and rounding into form slowly. We will be at the first of the three big national shoots next weekend. Next to the Vegas shoot, this is becoming one of the best tournaments in the world. Full live online scoring and streaming multiple cameras. Tons of fun!
I feel so fat and out of shape. Been focusing on archery a lot. I'm way behind on training for that and rounding into form slowly. We will be at the first of the three big national shoots next weekend. Next to the Vegas shoot, this is becoming one of the best tournaments in the world. Full live online scoring and streaming multiple cameras. Tons of fun!
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
Checking in to keep us off page 4 - I'm not quite getting in as much training as I'd like, but considering the holidays and work travel and bowl games, I'm happy to be getting in some work - at least staying above 30 miles each week. I did get in a good 20 miler with 3,600' of gain last weekend, and had to squeeze in a 15 miler with 1,900' this morning. This next week is going to be tough to do much running as I fly to Dallas tomorrow for Monday's game, then to Atlanta at 6:00 AM Tuesday for a week of training. I get back on Friday afternoon but have a mid-day basketball game on Saturday (coach) and then make up for all of this being gone by taking the lady wine tasting on Sunday. I'm hoping to at least get in a couple shorter runs in ATL (maybe even the dreadmill!), to which I'll add some intensity to make up for the lack of volume.
Then it's tie to ramp it up. I still have 17 weeks to my 100K, so plenty of time to get back to some 45-55 mile weeks with a series of hilly 20+ milers and at least one 50K mixed in there.
Then it's tie to ramp it up. I still have 17 weeks to my 100K, so plenty of time to get back to some 45-55 mile weeks with a series of hilly 20+ milers and at least one 50K mixed in there.
bentley
Footballguy
Hey guys. Checking in again even though I'm not much of a contributor. Half marathon in two weeks and feeling pretty good about training.
Went out for 7 miles in the drizzle and 30 degree weather, which is pretty much Arctic for Austin and felt like a million bucks. It's amazing what finally buying a pair of gloves will do for body heat.
Also really loving the Bluebuds wireless headphones and Fitbit Surge I got for Christmas.
Hope everyone is having a great start to their year.
Went out for 7 miles in the drizzle and 30 degree weather, which is pretty much Arctic for Austin and felt like a million bucks. It's amazing what finally buying a pair of gloves will do for body heat.
Also really loving the Bluebuds wireless headphones and Fitbit Surge I got for Christmas.
Hope everyone is having a great start to their year.
beer 30
Footballguy
Trying to ramp up but life is throwing me a few curves over the next 2 months. Some of you who are friends on FB may have seen but my sister passed away very unexpectedly on Friday so this week is going to blur of driving 1800 miles & emotions. I'll try to get in some work but I don't even know where I'm staying at this point. After that I leave for a trade show on Sunday and then 2 lengthy business trips in February back-to-back will really futz with any kind of training I can get in for this March marathon.
I'm dedicating my season to her and leaning heavy on her strength to get me through these rough miles ahead. I know my sis is looking down shaking her head saying "you're crazy" so it will be cool to have her along with me now on these runs. Went out yesterday on the trails for 6 with a friend and had a good run. Kept my mind off of everything. I'm heading up a couch-to-5k thing for our church so went to scope out a 1/2 mile course. While I was running that & listening to 'We Believe' by the Newsboys just lost it. I'm sure the dog walkers were getting a little nervous if they caught my act. Lotta ups & downs these last few days. Today will be hard at church with all the well wishers. It's tough having to retell the event s over & over, almost like ripping the scab off every time.
I'm dedicating my season to her and leaning heavy on her strength to get me through these rough miles ahead. I know my sis is looking down shaking her head saying "you're crazy" so it will be cool to have her along with me now on these runs. Went out yesterday on the trails for 6 with a friend and had a good run. Kept my mind off of everything. I'm heading up a couch-to-5k thing for our church so went to scope out a 1/2 mile course. While I was running that & listening to 'We Believe' by the Newsboys just lost it. I'm sure the dog walkers were getting a little nervous if they caught my act. Lotta ups & downs these last few days. Today will be hard at church with all the well wishers. It's tough having to retell the event s over & over, almost like ripping the scab off every time.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Sorry for your loss, Beer.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
beer 30
Footballguy
Thanks guys, I appreciate all the kind words. I feel like there is a real comradirie in this thread and it means a lot during these difficult moments. Will be heading up that way tomorrow, gonna be a tough couple of days and it looks like I'll be driving into a nice winter storm followed by some pretty frigid temps. Hoping there is a treadmill someplace ;-)
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