gianmarco
Footballguy
I didn't give you any links. But you're welcome anyway
Perfect. Exactly what I was hoping for. And thanks to everyone else for the links. Much appreciated!
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Ran a 10k - Official Thread (8 Viewers)
- Thread starter Ned
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ChiefD
Footballguy
I got lazy with that last post.I didn't give you any links. But you're welcome anyway
But yes, thank you for your response.
gianmarco
Footballguy
I initially posted that all I got was a like and you just moved on... Typical.I got lazy with that last post.
But yes, thank you for your response.
SteelCurtain
Footballguy
good plan here.
For me -- one day a week, I do chest and tri's. So I do Bench press, incline with dumbells and decline bench. Then I finish with triceps (usually a couple different exercises).
The second day during the week (a few days later), I'll do back and bi's. So I'll do a pulldown with the overhead bar, lateral raises, wide gripped seated row, and then a couple bicep exercises.
I'm no body builder but this definitely helped me bulk up a little (5-10 lbs), I felt stronger and look way more defined.
I also would throw in planks a couple times a week.
Just a few ideas on this.
Also, the first few times, don't go all out. Your body will be in pain if you go full tilt the first few times and will likely take longer to get fully ramped up because you'll need a longer rest period to recover. After a couple sessions of each, you'll be able to go all out. Good luck!
SteelCurtain
Footballguy
I need some advice from the smart runners.
My training plan calls for speed work to be 1 minute/mile faster than MP. The hardest part of my training plan for Chicago was to run the speed (repeats start at 12x400 and eventually grow to 4x1 mile (i think) at 6:27 (MP is 7:27).
I'm starting to consider trying to go for 7:20/mile training pace for Boston. Therefore my speed is 6:20/mile pace which I don't think this old body will be able to do.
I start training my Boston training in mid December. My question is, how to do I get faster for my speed workouts between now and then?
This morning, I went out and did 400M repeats. I only did 6 and did them at 5:45/ish pace. Is that the best way to get faster? Should I sprinkle in a bunch of 100M sprints? Do I do those full blast? Should I try to be more controlled?
Any ideas or hints, would be appreciated, as I'm really lost.
Also, is it important to lift weights with my legs during this stretch?
My training plan calls for speed work to be 1 minute/mile faster than MP. The hardest part of my training plan for Chicago was to run the speed (repeats start at 12x400 and eventually grow to 4x1 mile (i think) at 6:27 (MP is 7:27).
I'm starting to consider trying to go for 7:20/mile training pace for Boston. Therefore my speed is 6:20/mile pace which I don't think this old body will be able to do.
I start training my Boston training in mid December. My question is, how to do I get faster for my speed workouts between now and then?
This morning, I went out and did 400M repeats. I only did 6 and did them at 5:45/ish pace. Is that the best way to get faster? Should I sprinkle in a bunch of 100M sprints? Do I do those full blast? Should I try to be more controlled?
Any ideas or hints, would be appreciated, as I'm really lost.
Also, is it important to lift weights with my legs during this stretch?
Brony
Footballguy
I'm a glutton for punishment. If I suggest that I'm going to see another healthcare provider for my calf, shoot me.
At the suggestion of my last MD visit, I met up with a PT last night who has spent many years treating runners and using many techniques to rehab (needling, gait & pose method, etc.) We discussed the history and he did an examination of my legs; flexibility, strength, soreness etc. He did identify a couple of bone / joint anomalies on my right side where there were asymmetries between right and left. One is on the right outer ankle which is riding a little high and my right fibula is protruding out just a smidge. This hadn't come up previously - it's definitely not obvious visually.
The plan is to have him mobilize these spots via manual adjustment at his office. In between visits, I've got the roller back out and working all big muscles in the legs post run and I'll also be working on hip flexor strength with the usual routine of exercises there. I used the roller post-run today and there's a lot of senstive areas as I expected. We'll see what happens over the next few weeks. I've strengthened my hip muscles previously and it did nothing for the injury, so I'm skeptical there. Running mileage to stay the same for now.
His office is (of course) an hour away each direction so this will likely suck. Next week's visit will be gait analysis and potentially working on improvements there.
Overall I'm skeptical and ready to be done with medical intervention, but I'll listen and try on gait adjustments as I haven't done anything on that to date.
At the suggestion of my last MD visit, I met up with a PT last night who has spent many years treating runners and using many techniques to rehab (needling, gait & pose method, etc.) We discussed the history and he did an examination of my legs; flexibility, strength, soreness etc. He did identify a couple of bone / joint anomalies on my right side where there were asymmetries between right and left. One is on the right outer ankle which is riding a little high and my right fibula is protruding out just a smidge. This hadn't come up previously - it's definitely not obvious visually.
The plan is to have him mobilize these spots via manual adjustment at his office. In between visits, I've got the roller back out and working all big muscles in the legs post run and I'll also be working on hip flexor strength with the usual routine of exercises there. I used the roller post-run today and there's a lot of senstive areas as I expected. We'll see what happens over the next few weeks. I've strengthened my hip muscles previously and it did nothing for the injury, so I'm skeptical there. Running mileage to stay the same for now.
His office is (of course) an hour away each direction so this will likely suck. Next week's visit will be gait analysis and potentially working on improvements there.
Overall I'm skeptical and ready to be done with medical intervention, but I'll listen and try on gait adjustments as I haven't done anything on that to date.
SteelCurtain
Footballguy
Here's another question. Thinking about giving blood at 1 p.m. and going out for an easy 6 miles at 4 p.m.
Bad idea?
Bad idea?
ChiefD
Footballguy
gianmarco
Footballguy
I've done this unintentionally (run later in the day after giving blood), and I was just dumbfounded why I felt so gassed. That is, until I recalled giving blood earlier in the day. So I'd say not a bad idea, just go easy and expect that you're not going to feel full of energy.
pbm107
Footballguy
It sounds like you lean towards the endurance monster runner type.
I don't really have any tips on getting faster ahead of your training, some plans like the one @SFBayDuck was following for Western States recommend starting with speed early in the cycle and more traditional plans focus on base building so that you're fit enough to start the training. From your post I am a little confused, if you're capable of running a 400 around 5:45 you should be able to run 1000s or 1200s at 6:20 pace. Be careful with the 400s, I know I have fallen into the trap of overrunning them and hurting myself.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Question for the wife:
She did her HM recently and has done 3-4 of them over the last few years. Despite that, she still seems to fade on longer runs. We did 9 miles together this week and last and by the 7th mile she starts tiring due to her legs and butt (not aerobic tiring). During her HM training she did 20-25 mile weeks.
What can help? That's twice now we've gone on longer runs and I'm feeling better at the end and she's going the opposite way and I'm curious how to help her fix that. I'm actually surprised because it seems she has a good base. FWIW, she does do some lunges to help with strength.
Thoughts?
She did her HM recently and has done 3-4 of them over the last few years. Despite that, she still seems to fade on longer runs. We did 9 miles together this week and last and by the 7th mile she starts tiring due to her legs and butt (not aerobic tiring). During her HM training she did 20-25 mile weeks.
What can help? That's twice now we've gone on longer runs and I'm feeling better at the end and she's going the opposite way and I'm curious how to help her fix that. I'm actually surprised because it seems she has a good base. FWIW, she does do some lunges to help with strength.
Thoughts?
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MAC_32
Footballguy
Thank you for posting that @pbm107. I've read it before, but the refresher is helpful. Remaining patient as I try to transition from speedster to more of a combo (because I'll never be an endurance monster) has been a constant battle over the last couplefew years - and greatly led to why I have done what I have this year.
Doing a tempo isn't a problem. Recovering from one definitely has been though. And everything related to marathon pace runs was a failure last year. I had other issues, but that was the biggest and most constant one. I never felt ready for them, failed to complete most of them, and took way too long to recover after unsuccessfully doing them. Part of it was certainly the (too?) aggressive goal relative to my fitness, but I just think my body requires a little more time both prepping for longer/harder workouts and getting right after they're done.
I still don't feel confident about my plan, but deep down I've known that would be the case for months. Knowing where my fitness is right now and evaluating various plans (pfitz/higdon/hanson), I just don't see the right fit. They're all either too easy (not enough quality a/o volume) or too much (too frequent quality). We'll see if all of my reading/trial & error will be able to navigate the next few months...
Doing a tempo isn't a problem. Recovering from one definitely has been though. And everything related to marathon pace runs was a failure last year. I had other issues, but that was the biggest and most constant one. I never felt ready for them, failed to complete most of them, and took way too long to recover after unsuccessfully doing them. Part of it was certainly the (too?) aggressive goal relative to my fitness, but I just think my body requires a little more time both prepping for longer/harder workouts and getting right after they're done.
I still don't feel confident about my plan, but deep down I've known that would be the case for months. Knowing where my fitness is right now and evaluating various plans (pfitz/higdon/hanson), I just don't see the right fit. They're all either too easy (not enough quality a/o volume) or too much (too frequent quality). We'll see if all of my reading/trial & error will be able to navigate the next few months...
ChiefD
Footballguy
What is her nutrition plan, especially before she goes on long runs, or the days before her longer runs?
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Hang 10
Footballguy
If you can't find a plan that fits, you should probably just think about getting a coach. You have tons of untapped potential. I'm not sure you'll ever get the most out of your training with some one size fits all plan.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Increase weekly mileage. My breakthrough happened after a few months consistently in the 30's and 12 straight weeks with no weeks under 28 miles.
pbm107
Footballguy
If you replace 30's with 60's and 28 with 58, with your talent you'd be a lock for sub 3:05 with proper pacing on race day.
gianmarco
Footballguy
She doesn't have a nutrition plan (nor do I) and can't say I think she'd ever start one related to running. She's lucky in that she's always been thin and can eat whatever she wants without gaining weight. I'd say overall a pretty balanced diet although not specifically a "healthy" diet and she certainly loves baked goods/sweets, especially at breakfast time. That said, she's big about moderation so none of it is ever overdone. In other words, we don't eat unhealthy food (no fast food or junk food) but we aren't counting calories or watching out for certain carbs, etc. Not vegetarian at all either. As for run, no changes in diet either before or after long runs.
I figured this might be the case. That'll be a challenge time-wise so trying to figure out a way to get the mileage closer to 30 will be hard as it's unlikely she can get out more than 4x/week to run. I'm going to try and work on it, though, with her as well as for myself. We'll see how it goes....
ChiefD
Footballguy
She may need to load up the day before a long run. Meaning, eat a large lunch consisting of pasta or something similar. Then for dinner the night before eat some protein and maybe a baked potato.
She may just need some fuel.
Edit to add: I have lived this one. I am known for under nourishing during my training cycles.
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ThreeThousand
Footballguy
Ironman Florida RR
Going into this one, I was hoping to just finish the race. It's my 3rd in 6 weeks, and my recovery/repeak from IM Louisville in October has been lacking. Drove down to Panama City from Atlanta on Thursday by myself. I had to be there by 1:00pm local time for a conference call where I needed a PC, so I got there about 12:00pm to check into the hotel. Took the call then walked over to the Expo to check-in. After checking in, hit the local Wal-Mart for some supplies, then Subway for dinner. Early evening as there was no family with me yet (bed by 9:30pm).
The next morning, met a couple of friends from Facebook for an early morning quick 15 mile ride, got all the gear together, bike checked in, etc. Met a friend from high school for lunch at Pineapple Willy's, then back to the hotel room to work for the rest of the afternoon. My wife/kids got into town about 9:00pm - they had to drive down separately as the kids couldn't miss 2 extra days of school (Thursday and Friday).
Race morning I was up about 5:00am, got everything lubed up and headed to transition. A quick bike check, potty break, and it was time to swim at 6:40am. The sun was just coming up, and there were very few breakers. This was quite possibly the best ocean swim I've ever been in - after the race moved to a wave start, the contact is much better, and the lack of waves = easier swimming. Was out of the first lap in 39:53, full swim time 1:20:07, so right at an even split.
Bike course goes out Front Beach road to Hwy 79, north for a lollipop, and then back into town. Flat and fast, although those that think it's perfectly flat are surprised at some of the small rollers on the way back into town. Nice ride today, felt pretty good until about mile 80. Bike time 5:47:46.
About 10 minutes into the run I could tell it was going to be a long slog. There was just nothing in my legs, I was having trouble just picking them up and putting them down. Told myself that I'd run to the 13.1 mark (Special Needs) to see the family, and then reassess. The miles ticked by slowly, the run course winds through a local neighborhood for about 3.5-4 miles before heading into a state park out-and-back, then back through the neighborhood to start a second lap. Told my wife at Special Needs that I'd likely be a bit slower for the second half as I was just dead, and as I was coming back in on the second lap I realized I had a chance to break 12 hrs. That led to a negative split that was super painful. Run time 4:29:44, for a total race time of 11:53:39.
After times of 11:30:33 in Chattanooga and 11:31:33 in Louisville the previous 5 weeks, I'll take it. I might be more proud of that 11:53 than I am of any other IM time to date, given the load.
We're going to change it up next year - the wife and I are going to drive out to Boulder for IM Boulder on June 10th, do Chattanooga again the end of September, and finish up the season (and my 12th IM!) in Florida next year for the 20th anniversary of IM Florida. Should be good to spread the races out a little more, and gives me a little motivation to train throughout the winter.
Going into this one, I was hoping to just finish the race. It's my 3rd in 6 weeks, and my recovery/repeak from IM Louisville in October has been lacking. Drove down to Panama City from Atlanta on Thursday by myself. I had to be there by 1:00pm local time for a conference call where I needed a PC, so I got there about 12:00pm to check into the hotel. Took the call then walked over to the Expo to check-in. After checking in, hit the local Wal-Mart for some supplies, then Subway for dinner. Early evening as there was no family with me yet (bed by 9:30pm).
The next morning, met a couple of friends from Facebook for an early morning quick 15 mile ride, got all the gear together, bike checked in, etc. Met a friend from high school for lunch at Pineapple Willy's, then back to the hotel room to work for the rest of the afternoon. My wife/kids got into town about 9:00pm - they had to drive down separately as the kids couldn't miss 2 extra days of school (Thursday and Friday).
Race morning I was up about 5:00am, got everything lubed up and headed to transition. A quick bike check, potty break, and it was time to swim at 6:40am. The sun was just coming up, and there were very few breakers. This was quite possibly the best ocean swim I've ever been in - after the race moved to a wave start, the contact is much better, and the lack of waves = easier swimming. Was out of the first lap in 39:53, full swim time 1:20:07, so right at an even split.
Bike course goes out Front Beach road to Hwy 79, north for a lollipop, and then back into town. Flat and fast, although those that think it's perfectly flat are surprised at some of the small rollers on the way back into town. Nice ride today, felt pretty good until about mile 80. Bike time 5:47:46.
About 10 minutes into the run I could tell it was going to be a long slog. There was just nothing in my legs, I was having trouble just picking them up and putting them down. Told myself that I'd run to the 13.1 mark (Special Needs) to see the family, and then reassess. The miles ticked by slowly, the run course winds through a local neighborhood for about 3.5-4 miles before heading into a state park out-and-back, then back through the neighborhood to start a second lap. Told my wife at Special Needs that I'd likely be a bit slower for the second half as I was just dead, and as I was coming back in on the second lap I realized I had a chance to break 12 hrs. That led to a negative split that was super painful. Run time 4:29:44, for a total race time of 11:53:39.
After times of 11:30:33 in Chattanooga and 11:31:33 in Louisville the previous 5 weeks, I'll take it. I might be more proud of that 11:53 than I am of any other IM time to date, given the load.
We're going to change it up next year - the wife and I are going to drive out to Boulder for IM Boulder on June 10th, do Chattanooga again the end of September, and finish up the season (and my 12th IM!) in Florida next year for the 20th anniversary of IM Florida. Should be good to spread the races out a little more, and gives me a little motivation to train throughout the winter.
JShare87
Footballguy
Brony
Footballguy
ChiefD
Footballguy
Congrats. You ran a faster marathon than me AFTER swimming AND biking.
Jerkface.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
I don't like the 100M sprint idea. Three considerations:
1) Try mixing in some x by 2 mile repeats. I've had good success with those as a rather extreme mix of endurance and relative speed. So instead of shorter and harder, try longer and let that translate down to the 1000s and 1200s.
2) Something else I like is what I call 'block striders' - running a quarter mile urban stretch of sidewalk with one stride per sidewalk square. The striding is a little longer than my regular stride, especially by the end of the interval, and I think it helps to build a looser, longer stride. Extend from the hip/upper leg, not by throwing the foot out in front.
3) Do some fast-but-not-too-fast repeats (maybe 200m, or just track straightaways) where you consciously focus on the kickback of your stride.
All in all, a slightly longer, fuller stride could support improvement in the speed.
--
And I want to be like @ThreeThousand when I grow up.
SteelCurtain
Footballguy
Good advice.
Question about #1. So if I need to work on 6:20 speed workouts. Since you are suggesting 2 mile repeats.....you thinking around 6:45ish? So a bit slower than my speed workouts but hopefully this will build my endurance? Just making sure I understand fully.
gruecd
Footballguy
Under Armour tights and long-sleeve top, some wool socks, a windbreaker, and a hat. The key, however, is a good pair of gloves. Once the hands get cold, it's all over.
Oh, and wind briefs to wear under the tights (boxer briefs with a reinforced front panel). You do NOT want the johnson getting cold...
SteelCurtain
Footballguy
So I did this.SteelCurtain said:
I gave blood around 1:45 and by 4:30 I was out running.
Legs felt ok but I definitely felt more winded. I was able to run my easy pace but it was a bit harder than I would have liked. I ran about 9 min miles for 5 miles. I don't think 8 minute miles would have been feasible. I didn't feel light headed but my head had a little headache, likely from lack of fluids (since they took my blood out) along with less oxygen being pumped through my bloodstream.
So, moral of the story is if you are in good shape and want to do an easy run after giving blood, I think its no big deal.
SteelCurtain
Footballguy
I wear shorts (sometimes cotton ones on cold days) over the tights to give more protection to the johnson. Also, no one wants to see my junk in tights.
gruecd
Footballguy
ChiefD
Footballguy
Also, dress as if the temp is 20 degrees warmer. At least I do. The coldest point will be when you walk out the door. After a mile you are warmed up and usually shedding gloves and maybe a hat.
I would also get a hat with a facemask as well for those really cold days to protect your nose and cheeks when you start. I have a couple of different hats - one of those band things that just covers my ears, a regular hat, and then one with the face mask for really cold days.
I would also get a hat with a facemask as well for those really cold days to protect your nose and cheeks when you start. I have a couple of different hats - one of those band things that just covers my ears, a regular hat, and then one with the face mask for really cold days.
-OZ-
Footballguy
mr. furley
Footballguy
print this off and bring it with you to the store so you don't forget
hands
****
it's unreal how cold those two areas get without proper protection.
i've found a thin pair of gloves with mittens over top have served me well all the way down to minus anything. maybe takes a few minutes to get the blood moving and the hands to warm up but once you're running the combo keeps wind off your hands and you're good to go.
mr. furley
Footballguy
hit the road this morning with a "feels like" temperature hovering around zero
long socks, tights, windreaker pants over the top. two long sleeve shirts. gloves. mittens over top. headband.
only thing that got cold was my stomach. forgot to tuck the shirts and didn't really notice the cold until the last few minutes before wrapping up.
Brony
Footballguy
19 here in Chicago this morning. I was under prepared on hands and peens. I have a good pair of mittens that I need to bust out and I'm still searching for a good crotch warmer.
Add: legs and torso don't need much. As long as I have long sleeves anything and a wind breaker type top, I'm good to 0. I do have a bakalava which gets necessary in Jan
Add: legs and torso don't need much. As long as I have long sleeves anything and a wind breaker type top, I'm good to 0. I do have a bakalava which gets necessary in Jan
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-OZ-
Footballguy
-OZ-
Footballguy
Ah, winter - the payback for you northerners not dying all summer.
It's 40 here. Cold when not running but nice for running.
JShare87
Footballguy
Running a 10K tonight. i signed up for it before my hamstring/back issue. This will be my 2nd 10K ever. My hamstring/back is still not good but getting better. Going to try for sub 40 but not getting my hopes up since I’ve not ran much in the past 2 weeks. The run is in a nice area and where most of my daily runs take place. I’ll try and get a race report in tonight before Hang10’s big day tomorrow.
MAC_32
Footballguy
I think I came to this conclusion a while ago - and I also think it morphed into a preconceived bias. If I'm being honest I wasn't ever going to fully buy-in to any of the plans. I've learned a lot spending hours reading about them though.Hang 10 said:
Your first comment reminded me of something I used to say to my clients all of the time - everyone would benefit from having a personal trainer, even a personal trainer would benefit from having a personal trainer. I'm not going to do it though. And it's an admitted blind spot of mine. I just think if the long run I benefit more from trail & erroring on my own. I've found this method won't work for most because after a couplefew failures they'll quit, but it isn't how I'm wired. If I'm going to fail then it's going to be because I didn't prepare properly. But I'm going to learn from whatever mistakes I made then try again.
And that's basically what I've done this year. I made a pile of mistakes in 2016, but I knew that was going to happen before I even started. 2017 has been about slowly increasing volume and playing around with different workout cycles to see how my body would react. It's also been about better evaluating my workout structure to identify what leads to avoidable rough patches. Working out through the fatigue is just part of marathon training, but if it takes 3-5 days to feel right again after a workout (or a series of workouts) then that's not running through the fatigue - that's over training. Looking back on my year I can only identify one such period after about April and that centered around finding out I was racing a 5K 12 hours before it started - understandable.
So while I am not confident about my plan, I am also not confident about a canned one, nor would I from a coach either. I think it will work. But I'd be lying if I said I know it will work. It'll be very important as I'm navigating to listen to my body and not my plan if I am nearing a point of over training then adjust accordingly. Based on what I've done this year I think I'll do the right thing. But there's really no way of knowing until I get there.
Should be a fun ride...
ChiefD
Footballguy
MAC_32
Footballguy
If I would consider doing some dreadmill workouts then this would be the most important part of my plan. Mixing in quality has never really been a problem, just mixing in too much of it has. Volume though. Thing is, right or wrong (it's wrong), I refuse to use one. It's the risk of training for a Spring marathon in a place in which lake effect snow is a known problem. All I can do is hope it's like the last two winters and not the two before them.pbm107 said:
mr. furley
Footballguy
gruecd
Footballguy
MAC_32
Footballguy
Balaclava. You'll probably want 2 unless you intend to do laundry 3x per week. If it's real cold then I'll wear a winter hat on top too.
Gloves. Probably 3 pair, but I don't know what winter is like in St. Louis. Two thicker ones are a must (again, unless you intend to do laundry 3x per week), but I like a thin one too. On the real bitter clod days I'll wear them under the regular pair. Again, like @gruecd said - if the hands get cold then it's all over.
Cold gear - top and bottom. The bottoms are all basically the same, but the tops have a variety of different materials. I have more than 5 but less than 10 and what I wear depends on temps, wind, precipitation, and length of run.
What you wear on top of the cold gear is really just about comfort - just keep in mind what @ChiefD said, always dress as if it's 20 degrees warmer than it actually is. I'll do tights only on faster workouts, but on slower ones it's shorts or pants. I'll sometimes wear multiple layers up top, but things that are easy to take off mid-run.
I won't talk you off of wool socks because the guys in here aren't the only ones that swear by them. It seems everyone but me identify them as a must have. My feet getting cold just doesn't impact me in winter running. I usually wear compression socks under my tights to keep my calf muscles warm and will just put a pair of short socks on as well if it's real cold.
If snow is an issue you'll need multiple pairs of shoes. I just don't throw away my old ones and use them on especially snowy days. That way if it takes a few days for them to dry out after, no big deal.
And most importantly - shower immediately after you get home. It will take you hours for your body to feel normal again if you do not.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I've learned from this thread that different people have different sensitivities to cold weather. For me, it's my hands. If I run in the 20s or teens I need to triple-glove. However, I can run in the same light socks as summer running and don't need anything for my face and am fine with a light cap on my head.
