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Ran a 10k - Official Thread (7 Viewers)

I honestly don't know, especially during a race. When I first started, I tried to be conscious of it, but haven't thought about it for a while.

I'll say after reading a good bit about it, it seemed that heel striking is actually ok as long as you aren't overstriding and braking with each step. If the knee is bent and contact is below you, I thought I read that it didn't matter which part of your foot touches first.
I think that things have swung back towards this view - in terms of efficiency it's more about cadence and where your foot strikes relative to your body, and not what part of the foot hits first.  That being said, I'd agree with Tri that where you strike probably has an impact on muscle recruitment, damage, etc, so could impact where you get sore.  

 
Serious question.  Why wake up for the Apple Watch release?  Is this the only way to get it by ordering it at that time?  Or you like to watch it live somehow? 

I'm confused.
I’ve always been under the assumption that’s the only way to guarantee delivery the following Friday. They usually sell out within minutes. I’d prefer to not wake up at 2:45.

 
So I'm supposed to do a 5/5 recovery double tomorrow.  My wife might be doing her 5-miler tonight around 8pm, which will probably be a couple hours after I finish my 10.  Would it be the worst idea in the world for me to tag along for her 5-miler at ~9:30 pace and get one of those two recovery runs out of the way tonight?
That’s an excellent question. Before I give you the answer to that one, have you ever asked yourself “Maybe I run too much?”

ill hangup and listen

 
Going to wake up at 2:55 am for the Apple Watch release. I plan to do my long run tomorrow morning since I’ll already be awake and have plenty of time before I have to be to work. Or maybe I can just do 2 14+ milers Friday and Saturday.
See the incredible insight I just provided to gru

 
Seeking some advice here.  

Just started the 12 week Higdon Intermediate 2 HM plan.   First plan I've done in 5 years, but its the first plan I've ever done that involves a day of speed work.  

The HM goal is to break 2 hours.  My best in the half is 1:53 (2013). Sub 2 seems reasonable, my overall fitness is close to what it was.   

So the speed work in this program is all 400m at 5K pace.  Kind of stumped on what to do.  My last 5k was pretty fugly.  Wasn't anything I trained for, just signed up cause my company sponsored it.  My pace was 8:38.  

Had my first speed workout Tuesday and basically went by feel.  All 5 400's were in the 7:30-7:45 range.  HR was 165-170 during the 400s.

I'm not being dumb by disregarding my latest 5k and going by what feels right am I?  It felt comfortably hard.  

I'm a speed work noob.  :nerd:
I haven’t done specific running plans, but I love 400k speed work. 

I definitely agree to go by feel. I would also recommend to try and negative split your 400’s. I think the value in that is simply learning how to pace and learning how your body reacts. It took a while for me. 

My best speed work outs to date are 400k on and 400k off after a 10 min warmup and before the 10 min cool down. I could get that up to about a 7mi workout and it felt awesome the next day. 

My last speed work session before sporadic injuries was trying to acclimate to 800’s with the same format except 800 on 400 off. It was harder to acclimate for me and i didn’t end up getting there. With fall coming up and hoping to be injury free it will start back up. 

 
Alright, let's get back on track.

I've now noticed after every race I've done, my quads are sore for a couple days.  They aren't ever sore otherwise, even after harder workouts (speed, tempo, whatever).  And the race I just did was completely flat so it's not about elevation.

Does that happen to you guys?  Is it about effort or form or something else?
Yes, you are working harder. 

Our workouts are at deficits. We never train and full strength. When you race you go at full strength. 

 
Seeking some advice here.  

Just started the 12 week Higdon Intermediate 2 HM plan.   First plan I've done in 5 years, but its the first plan I've ever done that involves a day of speed work.  

The HM goal is to break 2 hours.  My best in the half is 1:53 (2013). Sub 2 seems reasonable, my overall fitness is close to what it was.   

So the speed work in this program is all 400m at 5K pace.  Kind of stumped on what to do.  My last 5k was pretty fugly.  Wasn't anything I trained for, just signed up cause my company sponsored it.  My pace was 8:38.  

Had my first speed workout Tuesday and basically went by feel.  All 5 400's were in the 7:30-7:45 range.  HR was 165-170 during the 400s.

I'm not being dumb by disregarding my latest 5k and going by what feels right am I?  It felt comfortably hard.  

I'm a speed work noob.  :nerd:
Some good tempo info on this pod - pretty short and ads at the end ?

http://strengthrunning.libsyn.com/a-step-by-step-guide-to-tempo-runs

 
Good luck to @pbm107 and @Steel Curtain on your half marathons on Sunday!
Thanks I am feeling pretty good about my fitness just not sure how I am going to holdup with the humidity.  This will be the 6th time I have run this race, but the first time since 2013. 

2004       2:24:41

2005       2:15:09

2010       1:55:53

2012       1:30:49

2013       1:29:22

The plan for Sunday is to run the first 3 mile at 6:20 (PR pace) and if I feel good with that settle in at 6:15.  That profile would get me 1:22:08, I figure if I am that close to 1:22 I can make up those 8 seconds in the last 2 miles to go under 1:22 and promptly puke. 

Who knows, I haven’t raced this distance in 2.5 years and haven’t had much success with it compared to shorter races.

 
Thanks I am feeling pretty good about my fitness just not sure how I am going to holdup with the humidity.  This will be the 6th time I have run this race, but the first time since 2013. 

2004       2:24:41

2005       2:15:09

2010       1:55:53

2012       1:30:49

2013       1:29:22

The plan for Sunday is to run the first 3 mile at 6:20 (PR pace) and if I feel good with that settle in at 6:15.  That profile would get me 1:22:08, I figure if I am that close to 1:22 I can make up those 8 seconds in the last 2 miles to go under 1:22 and promptly puke. 

Who knows, I haven’t raced this distance in 2.5 years and haven’t had much success with it compared to shorter races.
You've had some excellent long tempos.  I like your chances particularly since you've "rested" quite a bit.

 
That’s an excellent question. Before I give you the answer to that one, have you ever asked yourself “Maybe I run too much?”

ill hangup and listen
I'd like this unpacked.  My son's 3-8 cross country team practices 3 nights per week, 3rd grade parents are required to help with practice, and my wife is in peak marathon training.  So I decided to start treating (most of) those practices as same day recovery's and see how things go.  Despite work continuing to be hell I think doing so is the primary reason I haven't regressed again.  I think it also aided in my running for 32 straight days.  I'm not one to run just to keep a streak like that going either.  I kept waiting for needing an off day, but it never came.  Eventually I took one off but only because it was > 90 degrees out for the 6th straight day and I'd had enough.

But my point is really that I've done same day recovery's before and they've gone well.  This is the first time I've intentionally scheduled several of them in succession and I think my body has been happy I did.  My non-running stress has been unusually high for weeks and it usually impacts my higher performance workouts.  That's not happened lately - if anything I've performed better on those workouts.  Despite also not being successful maintaining high weekly mileage nor doing many long runs of substance.

We're all different, but given my experience I am highly skeptical of same day recovery's being a bad thing.  If you've got some info detailing otherwise I'd love to read it though.

 
My history at my race is:

2010 - 1:50:00

2011 - 1:42:20

2016 - 1:33:12

My HM PR is 1:31:48 in NYC in the spring.

I would love to PR, but I'm honestly not confident.  Its been a long few weeks at work and home, so I don't feel fully rested.  In addition, its going to be a muggy morning.  I am going to try to PR, but I'll see how this goes.

Thanks for all your support. 

 
My history at my race is:

2010 - 1:50:00

2011 - 1:42:20

2016 - 1:33:12

My HM PR is 1:31:48 in NYC in the spring.

I would love to PR, but I'm honestly not confident.  Its been a long few weeks at work and home, so I don't feel fully rested.  In addition, its going to be a muggy morning.  I am going to try to PR, but I'll see how this goes.

Thanks for all your support. 
Yep, the Sub 90 train is on its way.

 
Pull up his Athlinks page.  
So I just did.  I don't understand how he was already running 5Ks in the 6's and then such a "slow" HM that year.  Those times don't seem to correlate unless something happened.  That said, the increase from 2012 onward is impressive.

 
My history at my race is:

2010 - 1:50:00

2011 - 1:42:20

2016 - 1:33:12

My HM PR is 1:31:48 in NYC in the spring.

I would love to PR, but I'm honestly not confident.  Its been a long few weeks at work and home, so I don't feel fully rested.  In addition, its going to be a muggy morning.  I am going to try to PR, but I'll see how this goes.

Thanks for all your support. 
Just fly to California and then fly right back on the red eye and head to the start line and you'll be fine.

 
So I just did.  I don't understand how he was already running 5Ks in the 6's and then such a "slow" HM that year.  Those times don't seem to correlate unless something happened.  That said, the increase from 2012 onward is impressive.
It's all about quantity of miles. 

I ran an 18:18 5K in 2013, but my first attempt at a half a year later was a 1:43, which doesn't line up at all.  The following year with a few more miles under my belt I got down to 1:37 then 1:34, which still doesn't line up.  But I still wasn't consistent nor completely healthy.  I tried to be the former, but due to the latter I wasn't.  Then I got healthy and consistency without experiencing any setbacks followed.  And got down to 1:25 in just 6 months.

IIRC @pbm107's distance gains came when his quantity of miles increased too.

 
Wife gone for the weekend and tomorrow is going to be a busy day (plus working tonight), so I doubt I'm going to be able to get out.  I wanted to do a speed run tomorrow with an extra day rest and right before my Sunday long run but it's just not happening.  So, I just went out now and figured trying to do 4 pace miles would be a decent compromise.  Unfortunately, I didn't get out until a little later than I hoped so it's already pretty sunny and my legs are still a little fatigued from the race.  After 3 miles at pace, I could feel them getting tired and decided it wasn't worth trying to push it one more. 

The first mile was frustrating as I was having a hard time locking down the pace (I kept going to 10K pace and then slowing down too much to compensate), but for the 2nd mile I got it locked in.  The 8 min pace felt pretty comfortable and I think I'll be able to hold that.  My only worry is the unknown once I get to the last 3-4 miles but I'll deal with that on race day.  At this point, that's what I'm shooting for, calculators be damned  :)

 
Just got my first drink going for a boys tailgate weekend. I don't expect to stop until Saturday night. It was good knowing you all. 

 
So I just did.  I don't understand how he was already running 5Ks in the 6's and then such a "slow" HM that year.  Those times don't seem to correlate unless something happened.  That said, the increase from 2012 onward is impressive.
Yeah I ran the first 10 miles at something like a 7:30 pace and crashed and burned for the last 5K.  I didn't have the endurance at that point, having some talent and very little endurance is a dangerous combination for a half marathon. I almost gave up running after that race and only ran a handful of miles between September and December of that year.

 
Yeah I ran the first 10 miles at something like a 7:30 pace and crashed and burned for the last 5K.  I didn't have the endurance at that point, having some talent and very little endurance is a dangerous combination for a half marathon. I almost gave up running after that race and only ran a handful of miles between September and December of that year.
That makes more sense.  I'm going to try and do the same thing so I can then set a 20 minute PR when I try again.

 
Just looked and my improvement from 1st HM to 2nd was 17 minutes.  Primarily bc how bad the first one suckt. 
Uh, I'm sensing a theme. While I was joking, it seems very possible this is going to happen whether I like it or not  :oldunsure:

And I remember you #######s trying to get me to run the HM as my very first race a year ago instead of the 5K. JFC.

 
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Uh, I'm sensing a theme. While I was joking, it seems very possible this is going to happen whether I like it or not  :oldunsure:

And I remember you #######s trying to get me to run the HM as my very first race a year ago instead of the 5K. JFC.
Yep to get it over with  :D

 
Uh, I'm sensing a theme. While I was joking, it seems very possible this is going to happen whether I like it or not  :oldunsure:

And I remember you #######s trying to get me to run the HM as my very first race a year ago instead of the 5K. JFC.
My first race was a marathon. HTFU.   ;)

 
Yep, the Sub 90 train is on its way.
I'm going to try to go out at a 6:52 pace (1:30 HM) and see how it goes. 

The nice thing is you can't completely blow up a HM race unlike a marathon.  Well....thats assuming you have enough experience and endurance for an HM, of which I have both.  :D

 
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I'd like this unpacked.  My son's 3-8 cross country team practices 3 nights per week, 3rd grade parents are required to help with practice, and my wife is in peak marathon training.  So I decided to start treating (most of) those practices as same day recovery's and see how things go.  Despite work continuing to be hell I think doing so is the primary reason I haven't regressed again.  I think it also aided in my running for 32 straight days.  I'm not one to run just to keep a streak like that going either.  I kept waiting for needing an off day, but it never came.  Eventually I took one off but only because it was > 90 degrees out for the 6th straight day and I'd had enough.

But my point is really that I've done same day recovery's before and they've gone well.  This is the first time I've intentionally scheduled several of them in succession and I think my body has been happy I did.  My non-running stress has been unusually high for weeks and it usually impacts my higher performance workouts.  That's not happened lately - if anything I've performed better on those workouts.  Despite also not being successful maintaining high weekly mileage nor doing many long runs of substance.

We're all different, but given my experience I am highly skeptical of same day recovery's being a bad thing.  If you've got some info detailing otherwise I'd love to read it though.
Sorry - my comment was tongue and cheek.

i have not read anything on running twice a day. I will say I love 2 workouts a day using different disciplines though. 

What I worry about is too much running on my knees. I’m not sure how much anyone of us have before arthritis, etc. Running is so high impact on the body my  preference since starting tris is to reduce my running to 2-3 times a week. 

 
gianmarco said:
So I just did.  I don't understand how he was already running 5Ks in the 6's and then such a "slow" HM that year.  Those times don't seem to correlate unless something happened.  That said, the increase from 2012 onward is impressive.
Volume is king. 

 
MAC_32 said:
It's all about quantity of miles. 

I ran an 18:18 5K in 2013, but my first attempt at a half a year later was a 1:43, which doesn't line up at all.  The following year with a few more miles under my belt I got down to 1:37 then 1:34, which still doesn't line up.  But I still wasn't consistent nor completely healthy.  I tried to be the former, but due to the latter I wasn't.  Then I got healthy and consistency without experiencing any setbacks followed.  And got down to 1:25 in just 6 months.

IIRC @pbm107's distance gains came when his quantity of miles increased too.
This is what gets me. Where is this de facto line poeople should be following?

i think I personally would have a better chance of running “well” in marathons over 5k’s. I think my strength would be at the endurance distances and weaknesses at the shorter sprints. I would guess my times wouldn’t “line up”. So what would that say about me?

I guess if we want to have generalities that makes sense, but for individual assessment I think it doesn’t apply all that well. 

 
SteelCurtain said:
I'm going to try to go out at a 6:52 pace (1:30 HM) and see how it goes. 

The nice thing is you can't completely blow up a HM race unlike a marathon.  Well....thats assuming you have enough experience and endurance for an HM, of which I have both.  :D
:lol:   I’ve got plenty on record in here. :bag:  

The only other person I know that can grind like you is @gruecd

 
Brony said:
Just got my first drink going for a boys tailgate weekend. I don't expect to stop until Saturday night. It was good knowing you all. 
I just finished a day of sailing and drinking yesterday, I’m am not enjoying today. Time for a fatty breakfast. 

 
Omg I suck on my phone. I have accidentally reported posts trying to reply. Sorry if any of you get perma bans thanks to me. 

 
This is what gets me. Where is this de facto line poeople should be following?

i think I personally would have a better chance of running “well” in marathons over 5k’s. I think my strength would be at the endurance distances and weaknesses at the shorter sprints. I would guess my times wouldn’t “line up”. So what would that say about me?

I guess if we want to have generalities that makes sense, but for individual assessment I think it doesn’t apply all that well. 
Comparing 5K to 26.2 is iffy stuff for most people. I’d take it with a grain of salt. 

This reminded me of @SteveC702 and his formula comparing 13.1:26.2.  I can’t find the OP, but here’s a quote with the gist of it.  

How has some of the old timer’s changed in here since that post?  I’m still at 1:27/3:09  

https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/724983-ran-a-10k-official-thread/?do=findComment&comment=18480384 

 
gianmarco said:
Uh, I'm sensing a theme. While I was joking, it seems very possible this is going to happen whether I like it or not  :oldunsure:

And I remember you #######s trying to get me to run the HM as my very first race a year ago instead of the 5K. JFC.
For the record, I think I had a 15min or so improvement from my first HIM to second. 

Just sayin ...

 
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The only other person I know that can grind like you is @gruecd
And naturally no sooner do you say that than I bail on a workout this morning.

Was supposed to do 12 miles with the first 6 at 7:45-8:00 and the second 6 at 7:15-7:30. Normally a fairly easy effort for me. First part was fine, but when I tried dropping down under 7:30, my legs wanted no part of it. Gutted through 3 of the faster miles and then reluctantly called it a day. 

I think my body was still kinda worn out from the 5 x 5 min fast in the sun and heat on Wednesday afternoon (and probably a little bit from just the cumulative load lately). It's also been a stressful week at home with my wife's grandpa dying and some other stuff. My "recovery" run yesterday morning was a struggle from start to finish, which definitely foreshadowed what happened today.

In any case, I *hate* quitting on a workout, and it's still eating at me 2+ hours later, but hopefully it's the right call.

Tentatively planning on shooting for a PR half next Sunday...

 
Tentatively planning on shooting for a PR half next Sunday...
What’s the schedule like for next week? I hope you’re taking it easy Friday and Saturday (at least).

Edit: Heartfelt condolences from me as well. I shouldn’t skim posts.

 
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And naturally no sooner do you say that than I bail on a workout this morning.

Was supposed to do 12 miles with the first 6 at 7:45-8:00 and the second 6 at 7:15-7:30. Normally a fairly easy effort for me. First part was fine, but when I tried dropping down under 7:30, my legs wanted no part of it. Gutted through 3 of the faster miles and then reluctantly called it a day. 

I think my body was still kinda worn out from the 5 x 5 min fast in the sun and heat on Wednesday afternoon (and probably a little bit from just the cumulative load lately). It's also been a stressful week at home with my wife's grandpa dying and some other stuff. My "recovery" run yesterday morning was a struggle from start to finish, which definitely foreshadowed what happened today.

In any case, I *hate* quitting on a workout, and it's still eating at me 2+ hours later, but hopefully it's the right call.

Tentatively planning on shooting for a PR half next Sunday...
First, my condolences @gruecd to you, your wife and all who knew her grandfather.

Second, I’m right there with @gruecd getting the @Ned jinx.  Awful shakeout run today.  Super slow and my heart was working way too hard (most of run in garmin zone 4!). Hopefully it’s just a blah day and i can feel better for tomorrow’s half.  

 
What’s the schedule like for next week? I hope you’re taking it easy Friday and Saturday (at least).
Sunday - 10 

Monday - 6 recovery

Tuesday - 7 with strides

Wednesday - 8 with hills & speedwork

Thursday - 6-7 recovery

Friday - rest

Saturday - 4 shakeout with strides

 
Comparing 5K to 26.2 is iffy stuff for most people. I’d take it with a grain of salt. 

This reminded me of @SteveC702 and his formula comparing 13.1:26.2.  I can’t find the OP, but here’s a quote with the gist of it.  

How has some of the old timer’s changed in here since that post?  I’m still at 1:27/3:09  

https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/724983-ran-a-10k-official-thread/?do=findComment&comment=18480384 
I’m at about 2.14. Hopefully I’ll PR my half next month and get into his 2.15-2.25 range.

 
Sunday - 10 

Monday - 6 recovery

Tuesday - 7 with strides

Wednesday - 8 with hills & speedwork

Thursday - 6-7 recovery

Friday - rest

Saturday - 4 shakeout with strides
That looks perfect to me! Weather is forecasted to be decent too. I certainly like your chances!

 

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