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Random Kendall Wright and Pierre Garcon Topic (1 Viewer)

Whoosah

Footballguy
Okay, so I am pretty confused.

I have no 1st round pick and tried to trade up by using Wright and Garcon as bargaining chips and no one wants either one for their first rounder. I initially said someone's mid to late 1st round pick plus another pick this year or next year and all the teams in my league don't want to have anything to do with it.

Am I missing something? Wright was a mid 1st rounder in most rookie drafts and Garcon is a legitimate WR2 in my opinion with low-end WR1 ceiling when 100%.

Is there a reason why these guys aren't valued highly in my league? Normal 0.5 PPR scoring with return yards.

 

Dr. Octopus

Footballguy
I like the schtick where people that are trying so desperately to be on one side of a trade, are so shocked when the other side doesn't take their deal.

With that said, your offers seem fair enough, but not all fair offers are accepted.

 

Whoosah

Footballguy
I like the schtick where people that are trying so desperately to be on one side of a trade, are so shocked when the other side doesn't take their deal.

With that said, your offers seem fair enough, but not all fair offers are accepted.
I would understand if guys in the league say, "Not a bad offer, but I am going to pass and draft". No harm, no foul..... but for them to say "He's not worth a 1st rounder" by multiple teams is why I bring this conversation up and if I am missing something about these guys.

 

zilladog

Footballguy
Am I getting anything by making a trade like that with you besides two giant question marks? If I'm giving up on a good draft prospect I'd better be assuring myself some solid points.

That would be my response to you if I were in your league.

 

MDSkinner

Footballguy
Austin and Patterson are the only two WR in this draft that I would have rated higher than Garcon or Wright, but obviously that is highly subjective and this is the time of year where people tend to value those draft picks more.

 

Sidewinder16

Footballguy
Am I missing something? Wright was a mid 1st rounder in most rookie drafts and Garcon is a legitimate WR2 in my opinion with low-end WR1 ceiling when 100%.
I think the bolded part may be the issue for other owners, re: Garcon. As a Redskins fan, his health is a concern of mine. He's self-admittedly not 100% now and is not confident he'll be 100% come the start of the season. It's somewhat concerning to me that he's talking about playing at less than 100% during the season, which he did pretty much all of last year.

I assume you're in some kind of dynasty/keeper format, so for me, I'd have to already have a good bit of youth on my roster and need WR help to accept an offer like yours. Even then I'd probably shop around to see if I could get a better WR for my 1st round pick.

 

Whoosah

Footballguy
Am I getting anything by making a trade like that with you besides two giant question marks? If I'm giving up on a good draft prospect I'd better be assuring myself some solid points.That would be my response to you if I were in your league.
I don't get what you are saying. If you are implying that Wright and Garcon are question marks, I think they showed what they can do: Wright was the most targeted receiver on the team and had a promising rookie campaign and Garcon, when healthy proved he can be at least a WR2. If anything, draft prospects are just as high in ??s as the two guys in question.

 

Whoosah

Footballguy
Am I missing something? Wright was a mid 1st rounder in most rookie drafts and Garcon is a legitimate WR2 in my opinion with low-end WR1 ceiling when 100%.
I think the bolded part may be the issue for other owners, re: Garcon. As a Redskins fan, his health is a concern of mine. He's self-admittedly not 100% now and is not confident he'll be 100% come the start of the season. It's somewhat concerning to me that he's talking about playing at less than 100% during the season, which he did pretty much all of last year.

I assume you're in some kind of dynasty/keeper format, so for me, I'd have to already have a good bit of youth on my roster and need WR help to accept an offer like yours. Even then I'd probably shop around to see if I could get a better WR for my 1st round pick.
Thanks for the insight and yeah I heard about his injury, but I guess my question is then: is Garcon too injured that he is not valued as a 1st rounder in the rookie draft?

The likes of Tavon Austin, Cordarelle Patterson, Deandre Hopkins, Keenan Allen all valued more than Garcon?

 

werdnoynek

Footballguy
Am I missing something? Wright was a mid 1st rounder in most rookie drafts and Garcon is a legitimate WR2 in my opinion with low-end WR1 ceiling when 100%.
I think the bolded part may be the issue for other owners, re: Garcon. As a Redskins fan, his health is a concern of mine. He's self-admittedly not 100% now and is not confident he'll be 100% come the start of the season. It's somewhat concerning to me that he's talking about playing at less than 100% during the season, which he did pretty much all of last year.

I assume you're in some kind of dynasty/keeper format, so for me, I'd have to already have a good bit of youth on my roster and need WR help to accept an offer like yours. Even then I'd probably shop around to see if I could get a better WR for my 1st round pick.
Thanks for the insight and yeah I heard about his injury, but I guess my question is then: is Garcon too injured that he is not valued as a 1st rounder in the rookie draft?

The likes of Tavon Austin, Cordarelle Patterson, Deandre Hopkins, Keenan Allen all valued more than Garcon?
It's all subjective. If you're in a league where every single trade offer you put out there is accepted, you may want to open your eyes, because you're asleep.

Some people value youth. Some people value established starters. Right now you'll have a hard time trading fringe starters for picks because people want to see what the rookies can do... I think it's probably best to move on or make another offer. Starting a tread about this isn't really going to go anywhere and you're definitely not going to get many of the answers you're looking for.

 

Sidewinder16

Footballguy
The likes of Tavon Austin, Cordarelle Patterson, Deandre Hopkins, Keenan Allen all valued more than Garcon?
As was mentioned above, at this point in the year, yes.

Dynasty leaguers doing their draft homework right now know all about the talent and potential of those rookies, and potential usually carries a lot of weight this time of year.

Dynasty leaguers doing their homework on Garcon right only know that he is currently (still) injured and may not be completely healthy when week 1 comes around.

So your asking people to essentially trade away years of production (one of the rookie WRs) for a WR (Garcon) who may not even be on the field in week 1, or at least seems likely to miss a large chunk of time like he did last year.

 

floods

Footballguy
people want to see what the rookies can do...
I think this is it, more than anything. Everyone has seen Garçon and Wright, but not the rookies, so their hopes have not yet been dashed upon the rocks of reality. :lol:

This is the time of the year when everyone is projected to trend upward and even fringe roster fodder is coveted with the glimmering hope that they've stashed the next Foster/Austin/Morris.

 

johnadams

Footballguy
I'm with Whoosah on this one, especially for Wright. I'd ship off a late first for Wright no problem and consider it a fleecing. I love WRs who put up good numbers as rookies and his stat line looks very strong.

As to Garcon, I get some of the reticence, but mostly because I think people are looking at him the wrong way. There's a sense that he's a known commodity (which I disagree with) and that he's capped as a WR2 with at best low WR1 upside (which I also disagree with). I think these misconceptions of Garcon lead to other roster questions in your potential trading partners. Most teams I see have plenty of WR2 types that can perform as low grade WR1 if the stars align right. Plus, if my rotation at WR/Flex has enough depth, I'm going to be looking for young upside rather than another WR2 type. (But, I see Garcon as more and would gladly part with a mid to late first for him).

 

bengalbuck

Footballguy
Whoosah said:
Sidewinder16 said:
Am I missing something? Wright was a mid 1st rounder in most rookie drafts and Garcon is a legitimate WR2 in my opinion with low-end WR1 ceiling when 100%.
I think the bolded part may be the issue for other owners, re: Garcon. As a Redskins fan, his health is a concern of mine. He's self-admittedly not 100% now and is not confident he'll be 100% come the start of the season. It's somewhat concerning to me that he's talking about playing at less than 100% during the season, which he did pretty much all of last year.I assume you're in some kind of dynasty/keeper format, so for me, I'd have to already have a good bit of youth on my roster and need WR help to accept an offer like yours. Even then I'd probably shop around to see if I could get a better WR for my 1st round pick.
Thanks for the insight and yeah I heard about his injury, but I guess my question is then: is Garcon too injured that he is not valued as a 1st rounder in the rookie draft?

The likes of Tavon Austin, Cordarelle Patterson, Deandre Hopkins, Keenan Allen all valued more than Garcon?
Just one league, but I am in a startup PPR dynasty right now and Austin went early. Hopkins and Patterson went round 7. Garçon went early round 8 and Wright went late round 8. Keenan Allen went in round 9. Hunter, Wheaton, Woods and company went 10 or later.Based on this small sample size, I think the top 3 WRs this year are worth more than either Garçon or Wright, but the next teir of WRs (Allen, Hunter, Woods, Wheaton, etc.) are worth a little bit less. Figure at least 4 or 5 RBs ahead of Garçon/Wright in addition to tge WRs and I think their value is probably in the 1.08 to 1.12 range.

 

suttree

Footballguy
I swapped the 1.06 yesterday for Garcon and I'm pleased as punch. I might've taken Patterson or Austin over that deal, but other than that? People love the unknown. Garcon is the no-doubt #1 receiving option on his team. Yes, that's true only if he's healthy, but that's a more manageable variable than all those that come with someone who's never taken a snap in the NFL.

 

EBF

Footballguy
One thing about rookie picks is that everyone has an ego and almost everyone thinks "their guys" are the right guys even though they know objectively that the bust rate is high. So while a rookie drafter might know that 65% of second round NFL draft picks bust, when he drives that new LeVeon Bell off the lot you can bet he's convinced that he picked a winner.

 

Kleck

Footballguy
I'd keep both Wright/Garcon over a late 1st rounder. I'd pay a late 1st for either for sure.
As would I. Better off keeping Wright and Garcon. I actually think Garcon is one of the most underarted WRs this year.

 

BuckeyeChaos

Footballguy
Am I getting anything by making a trade like that with you besides two giant question marks? If I'm giving up on a good draft prospect I'd better be assuring myself some solid points.That would be my response to you if I were in your league.
I don't get what you are saying. If you are implying that Wright and Garcon are question marks, I think they showed what they can do: Wright was the most targeted receiver on the team and had a promising rookie campaign and Garcon, when healthy proved he can be at least a WR2. If anything, draft prospects are just as high in ??s as the two guys in question.
If you feel this way, I have to ask why you are trying to move them in the first place?

 

Craig_MiamiFL

Footballguy
Am I getting anything by making a trade like that with you besides two giant question marks? If I'm giving up on a good draft prospect I'd better be assuring myself some solid points.That would be my response to you if I were in your league.
I don't get what you are saying. If you are implying that Wright and Garcon are question marks, I think they showed what they can do: Wright was the most targeted receiver on the team and had a promising rookie campaign and Garcon, when healthy proved he can be at least a WR2. If anything, draft prospects are just as high in ??s as the two guys in question.
If you feel this way, I have to ask why you are trying to move them in the first place?
:popcorn:

 

Steed

Footballguy
I'm with Whoosah on this one, especially for Wright. I'd ship off a late first for Wright no problem and consider it a fleecing. I love WRs who put up good numbers as rookies and his stat line looks very strong. As to Garcon, I get some of the reticence, but mostly because I think people are looking at him the wrong way. There's a sense that he's a known commodity (which I disagree with) and that he's capped as a WR2 with at best low WR1 upside (which I also disagree with). I think these misconceptions of Garcon lead to other roster questions in your potential trading partners. Most teams I see have plenty of WR2 types that can perform as low grade WR1 if the stars align right. Plus, if my rotation at WR/Flex has enough depth, I'm going to be looking for young upside rather than another WR2 type. (But, I see Garcon as more and would gladly part with a mid to late first for him).
What exactly is impressive about Wright's line of 64/626/4? He caught a lot of short passes.Garçon's numbers are only slight better. He's hovered around 65/800/5 the last 4 years. He's annually one of the most overrated wrs out there. Your post is a perfect example "wr2 with at best low wr1 upside".
 

Kitrick Taylor

Footballguy
One thing about rookie picks is that everyone has an ego and almost everyone thinks "their guys" are the right guys even though they know objectively that the bust rate is high. So while a rookie drafter might know that 65% of second round NFL draft picks bust, when he drives that new LeVeon Bell off the lot you can bet he's convinced that he picked a winner.
There is some truth in this. We all have some ego about "our guys." However, if you want a WR1, the draft is the cheapest place to get one by a long shot.
 

TheLurkerBelow

Footballguy
I'm with Whoosah on this one, especially for Wright. I'd ship off a late first for Wright no problem and consider it a fleecing. I love WRs who put up good numbers as rookies and his stat line looks very strong. As to Garcon, I get some of the reticence, but mostly because I think people are looking at him the wrong way. There's a sense that he's a known commodity (which I disagree with) and that he's capped as a WR2 with at best low WR1 upside (which I also disagree with). I think these misconceptions of Garcon lead to other roster questions in your potential trading partners. Most teams I see have plenty of WR2 types that can perform as low grade WR1 if the stars align right. Plus, if my rotation at WR/Flex has enough depth, I'm going to be looking for young upside rather than another WR2 type. (But, I see Garcon as more and would gladly part with a mid to late first for him).
What exactly is impressive about Wright's line of 64/626/4? He caught a lot of short passes.Garçon's numbers are only slight better. He's hovered around 65/800/5 the last 4 years. He's annually one of the most overrated wrs out there. Your post is a perfect example "wr2 with at best low wr1 upside".
You need to take into consideration that Garcon changed teams and role last year. Instead of being a WR2 or WR2a and sharing catches with other WRs on the Colts not named Reggie Wayne, he was singed by the Redskins to be their #1 target for their talented new QB. He looked phenomenal when he and RGIII were both healthy. If you gamble that both he and his QB will be healthy for most of their careers then it's very likely that Garcon puts up top 12 WR fantasy numbers for several years.

Not that it's possible to guarantee health, but theoretically if you could guarantee Garcon and RGIII's health I would put him at the top of the list of the WRs mentioned. Sure Austin and maybe Patterson have a higher ceilings, but I like the known over the unknown, especially when I don't think their ceilings are that much higher than Garcon's in his current situation.

 

Sabertooth

Footballguy
I'm with Whoosah on this one, especially for Wright. I'd ship off a late first for Wright no problem and consider it a fleecing. I love WRs who put up good numbers as rookies and his stat line looks very strong.

As to Garcon, I get some of the reticence, but mostly because I think people are looking at him the wrong way. There's a sense that he's a known commodity (which I disagree with) and that he's capped as a WR2 with at best low WR1 upside (which I also disagree with). I think these misconceptions of Garcon lead to other roster questions in your potential trading partners. Most teams I see have plenty of WR2 types that can perform as low grade WR1 if the stars align right. Plus, if my rotation at WR/Flex has enough depth, I'm going to be looking for young upside rather than another WR2 type. (But, I see Garcon as more and would gladly part with a mid to late first for him).
What exactly is impressive about Wright's line of 64/626/4? He caught a lot of short passes.Garçon's numbers are only slight better. He's hovered around 65/800/5 the last 4 years. He's annually one of the most overrated wrs out there. Your post is a perfect example "wr2 with at best low wr1 upside".
Watch this. He looks plenty fast and quick to me.

 

mr roboto

Footballguy
FWIW

I traded Garçon during our rookie draft last year. It was at 2.04 in a 10 team QB heavy league. At 2.03 Cobb was still on the board. I wanted him so I called the 2.04 owner and traded Pierre and drafted Cobb.

 

Dr. Octopus

Footballguy
Am I getting anything by making a trade like that with you besides two giant question marks? If I'm giving up on a good draft prospect I'd better be assuring myself some solid points.That would be my response to you if I were in your league.
I don't get what you are saying. If you are implying that Wright and Garcon are question marks, I think they showed what they can do: Wright was the most targeted receiver on the team and had a promising rookie campaign and Garcon, when healthy proved he can be at least a WR2. If anything, draft prospects are just as high in ??s as the two guys in question.
If you feel this way, I have to ask why you are trying to move them in the first place?
:popcorn:
Yep. As I alluded to earlier in the thread, it reminds me of the guy in my league that follows up every trade rejection with an e-mail stating "You're crazy to turn that one down. Shonn Greene is good for 1,600 yards and 14 TDs this season."

 

Whoosah

Footballguy
Am I getting anything by making a trade like that with you besides two giant question marks? If I'm giving up on a good draft prospect I'd better be assuring myself some solid points.That would be my response to you if I were in your league.
I don't get what you are saying. If you are implying that Wright and Garcon are question marks, I think they showed what they can do: Wright was the most targeted receiver on the team and had a promising rookie campaign and Garcon, when healthy proved he can be at least a WR2. If anything, draft prospects are just as high in ??s as the two guys in question.
If you feel this way, I have to ask why you are trying to move them in the first place?
:popcorn:
Yep. As I alluded to earlier in the thread, it reminds me of the guy in my league that follows up every trade rejection with an e-mail stating "You're crazy to turn that one down. Shonn Greene is good for 1,600 yards and 14 TDs this season."
I am deep at WR and Garcon/Wright are my WR4 and 5 so I would hope to get some depth support at other positions by trading them away, but still at a value I thought they were, at least mid to late 1st rounders. With such an underwhelming draft class, I figure that would be the area Garcon/Wright is viewed, but apparently that is not the case.

And for the record, I never said that guys in my league are crazy to not take the trade. If they don't want it, they don't want it, end of story. However, my thing is that all the teams I was talking to all said "they're not worth a 1st rounder". That is what I am raising the question to: are Wright and Garcon worth a mid/late first rounder in this year's rookie class when a lot of peoples rankings have Garcon and Wright in the same tier, if not higher ranked than the likes of Patterson, Hopkins, etc. who are first rounders in most drafts this year?

 

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