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Random NFL Draft Hypothetical... (1 Viewer)

pgreenfan

Footballguy
I know this is probably going to be blasted as impossible but is it? First assumption is that the Houston Texans do indeed end up with the #1 pick.Second assumption the University of Texas wins the National Championship.Third assumption Vince Young wins the Heisman Trophy.If those three things happen is it enough to change Vince Young's mind about entering the draft? If he were to enter the draft how high would he go and would the Texans trade down to take him or perhaps consider him at #1?

 

dgreen

Footballguy
Carr is no Manning, but QB is not Houston's main problem. If I were Houston in a situation like that, I'd trade down and take OL.

 
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TheFanatic

Footballguy
Sorry, I started laughing at assumption #2 and never finished the post!
It's not out of the realm of possibility. ND took USC to the final seconds and Texas is a better team than ND. This comes from a huge ND fan. I was at the Syracuse game a couple of weeks ago and am looking into a plane ticket to the Fiesta Bowl....Texas is a better team and if Vince plays lights out he could carry the Texans past USC. If I had to bet the game straight up I'd take USC but it's not a laughable assumption that USC will beat Texas....
 
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pgreenfan

Footballguy
Sorry, I started laughing at assumption #2 and never finished the post!
I don't understand how anyone could think that it would be a walkover game for USC. I feel that Texas has a legit shot at beating the Trojans this year. Edit to add do you care to offer a response to the hypothetical?
 
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Perry Van Hook

Footballguy
I have more problems with #3 than #2, but more importantly, Young has pretty much said that he is not coming out for this year's draft.BTW he also said he would love to play for Houston.

 

brewer

Footballguy
Carr is no Manning, but QB is not Houston's main problem. If I were Houston in a situation like that, I'd trade down and take OL.
:goodposting: Here is your answer. QB is far from the biggest need of the Texans, and even if it was, you are thinking Young is their #1 rated QB??? That's quite an assumption. Heisman does not equal pro success in many cases.

 

pgreenfan

Footballguy
Carr is no Manning, but QB is not Houston's main problem.  If I were Houston in a situation like that, I'd trade down and take OL.
:goodposting: Here is your answer. QB is far from the biggest need of the Texans, and even if it was, you are thinking Young is their #1 rated QB??? That's quite an assumption. Heisman does not equal pro success in many cases.
I am not saying take him at #1, I also asked would the Texans try to trade down and take him later? Such as trade the #1 for 2 first round picks and take him with the first and a lineman with the second first rounder they get?
 

B-Deep

Footballguy
I have more problems with #3 than #2, but more importantly, Young has pretty much said that he is not coming out for this year's draft.

BTW he also said he would love to play for Houston.
Geez lighten up! I never underestimate the Longhorns ability to blow a game. Here's my answer, those are a lot of things that have to fall in line for this to happen, so it's a bit premature. That being said I am not sure given all the above that it makes Young a more attractive QB then Leinart. I am not sure that the Texans have any desire to dump Carr, and I am not sure that Reggie Bush won't go #1. So given that there are so many other options, I'd guess that while young would get some consideration, one of the Tojans goes #1 and the other goes #2. If Houston is smart they trade down.
 

B-Deep

Footballguy
Carr is no Manning, but QB is not Houston's main problem. If I were Houston in a situation like that, I'd trade down and take OL.
:goodposting: Here is your answer. QB is far from the biggest need of the Texans, and even if it was, you are thinking Young is their #1 rated QB??? That's quite an assumption. Heisman does not equal pro success in many cases.
I am not saying take him at #1, I also asked would the Texans try to trade down and take him later? Such as trade the #1 for 2 first round picks and take him with the first and a lineman with the second first rounder they get?
who has 2 first round picks to give?
 

brewer

Footballguy
Carr is no Manning, but QB is not Houston's main problem. If I were Houston in a situation like that, I'd trade down and take OL.
:goodposting: Here is your answer. QB is far from the biggest need of the Texans, and even if it was, you are thinking Young is their #1 rated QB??? That's quite an assumption. Heisman does not equal pro success in many cases.
I am not saying take him at #1, I also asked would the Texans try to trade down and take him later? Such as trade the #1 for 2 first round picks and take him with the first and a lineman with the second first rounder they get?
Ok, let me ask you a question, where do you see Vince Young being taken IF he were to come out this year? In my opinion, you would need to trade down quite a bit from #1 to where he should be taken.... and trades of that sort very rarely happen.
 

Bloom

Moderator
Sorry, I started laughing at assumption #2 and never finished the post!
As long as Vince plays a solid game, UT will win. The weakest unit among the two teams by far is the USC defense. I dont think USC can stop UT unless Vince makes mistakes. UT, on the other hand, has one of the best defenses in the country, and should get at least 3 or 4 stops on USC, which should be the difference unless Vince craps the bed. something like 42-31.
 

dgreen

Footballguy
Carr is no Manning, but QB is not Houston's main problem. If I were Houston in a situation like that, I'd trade down and take OL.
:goodposting: Here is your answer. QB is far from the biggest need of the Texans, and even if it was, you are thinking Young is their #1 rated QB??? That's quite an assumption. Heisman does not equal pro success in many cases.
I am not saying take him at #1, I also asked would the Texans try to trade down and take him later? Such as trade the #1 for 2 first round picks and take him with the first and a lineman with the second first rounder they get?
Then what would they do with Carr? Does his cap figure allow him to be traded? If so, who would trade for him and what would his trade value be?
 

Andy Dufresne

Footballguy
If the Texans CAN trade out of the first spot and DON'T, it would be the height of stupidity.O-Line is their biggest need, obviously, but it's not their ONLY need. Even if they miss out on Ferguson, there are plenty of other outstanding O-Linemen available this year (Winston, McNeill, Joe Thomas, Johnathon Scott) that would do them well with the added benefit of more picks.From what I can tell, the Texans have two scenarios, neither of them involving them keeping the #1 pick:1) They pick Leinart and trade him for players/picks.2) They trade the #1 outright for players/picks.Anything else would be foolish.Edit: And to answer the question of this thread (which I apparently didn't comprehend when I first read it), even if Young comes out this year, no way is he a Texan.

 
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azgroover

Footballguy
Sorry, I started laughing at assumption #2 and never finished the post!
As long as Vince plays a solid game, UT will win. The weakest unit among the two teams by far is the USC defense. I dont think USC can stop UT unless Vince makes mistakes. UT, on the other hand, has one of the best defenses in the country, and should get at least 3 or 4 stops on USC, which should be the difference unless Vince craps the bed. something like 42-31.
is the UT defense even better than OU's "best defense ever" last year?
 

pgreenfan

Footballguy
Carr is no Manning, but QB is not Houston's main problem.  If I were Houston in a situation like that, I'd trade down and take OL.
:goodposting: Here is your answer. QB is far from the biggest need of the Texans, and even if it was, you are thinking Young is their #1 rated QB??? That's quite an assumption. Heisman does not equal pro success in many cases.
I am not saying take him at #1, I also asked would the Texans try to trade down and take him later? Such as trade the #1 for 2 first round picks and take him with the first and a lineman with the second first rounder they get?
Ok, let me ask you a question, where do you see Vince Young being taken IF he were to come out this year? In my opinion, you would need to trade down quite a bit from #1 to where he should be taken.... and trades of that sort very rarely happen.
I think that if Young were to come out he would be the #2 or #3 QB on most teams draft boards. I would be shocked to see him drop out of the top 10. Edit to add if Vince Young were to come out and their are not trades at the top of the board, I wouldn't be completely surprised to see him go as high as #4 to the Cardnials.
 
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brewer

Footballguy
Carr is no Manning, but QB is not Houston's main problem. If I were Houston in a situation like that, I'd trade down and take OL.
:goodposting: Here is your answer. QB is far from the biggest need of the Texans, and even if it was, you are thinking Young is their #1 rated QB??? That's quite an assumption. Heisman does not equal pro success in many cases.
I am not saying take him at #1, I also asked would the Texans try to trade down and take him later? Such as trade the #1 for 2 first round picks and take him with the first and a lineman with the second first rounder they get?
Ok, let me ask you a question, where do you see Vince Young being taken IF he were to come out this year? In my opinion, you would need to trade down quite a bit from #1 to where he should be taken.... and trades of that sort very rarely happen.
I think that if Young were to come out he would be the #2 or #3 QB on most teams draft boards. I would be shocked to see him drop out of the top 10.
It's WAY too early for mock drafts, but I have seen him at absolute highest #7. That would still be a long way to fall from the #1 pick. I just don't see any scenario where the Texans would trade down, draft Young and get good value in return.Like someone else pointed out, they would be better served by drafting Leinart at #1 and trading him ala Eli.

 

Andy Dufresne

Footballguy
It's WAY too early for mock drafts,
It's never too early for mock drafts.Here's the current draft order after week 12 and who I believe would be looking for a QB:

1. Houston

2. New York Jets

3. San Francisco

4. Green Bay

5. Tennessee

6. Arizona

7. New Orleans

8. Baltimore

9. Miami

10. Buffalo

11. Cleveland

12. Detroit

13. Oakland

14. St. Louis

15. Philadelphia

16. Denver (f/WAS)

17. Minnesota (depending on Culpepper's rehab)

18. New England

19. Tampa Bay

20. Atlanta

21. Pittsburgh

22. Kansas City

23. New York Giants

24. Dallas

25. San Diego

26. Chicago

27. Carolina

28. Jacksonville

29. Cincinnati

30. Seattle

31. Denver

32. Indianapolis

Here's a list of free agent quarterbacks (I'll emphasize my picks of who's actually worth something):

Anthony Wright UFA Ravens

Charlie Batch UFA Steelers

Chris Simms RFA Buccaneers

Chris Weinke UFA Panthers

Craig Nall UFA Packers

Damon Huard UFA Chiefs

Dave Ragone RFA Texans

Doug Flutie UFA Patriots

Drew Brees UFA Chargers - He'll be re-signed by the Chargers

Jamie Martin UFA Rams

Jeff Blake UFA Bears

Jeff Garcia UFA Lions

Jesse Palmer UFA 49ers

Jon Kitna UFA Bengals - Should be highly sought after.

Josh McCown UFA Cardinals

Ken Dorsey RFA 49ers

Kliff Kingsbury RFA Jets

Kurt Warner UFA Cardinals - Has shown there's gas left in the tank.

Sage Rosenfels UFA Dolphins

Seneca Wallace RFA Seahawks

Shane Matthews UFA Bills

Shaun Hill UFA Vikings

Tim Hasselbeck UFA Giants

Todd Collins UFA Chiefs

Ty Detmer UFA Falcons

Vinny Testaverde UFA Jet

There are two QBs that have the potential to be traded this offseason - Volek and Rivers.

So that gives me 4 QBs that teams would consider handing the reins over to.

If Young were to come out, where would he rank with these four in terms of desireability? I would guess somewhere in the middle. If I were a GM, I'd take experience over potential and my wishlist would be, in order, Kitna, Rivers, Young, Volek, Warner.

Any team currently in the 6-13 position would obviously have serious interest in drafting Young should he come out.

The difference in money between a top 5 pick and one outside that would be big. If Young comes out this year, I think he'd be outside. Next year, most likely top 5. I highly doubt he comes out this year.

Wow. Proof reading that shows that I only got 4 hours of sleep last night. Was my point coherent to anyone?

 
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Nucular George

Footballguy
Andy,Interesting that you don't think the Ravens are looking at QB. Granted, they have a few more issues, but I would think QB would be right up there with any other issue. What's the rationale there? Just curious.Edit to add: Same question goes for Miami actually.

 
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Andy Dufresne

Footballguy
Andy,

Interesting that you don't think the Ravens are looking at QB. Granted, they have a few more issues, but I would think QB would be right up there with any other issue. What's the rationale there? Just curious.
Whoops. My "bold" code didn't work. See edit.Anyone 6-9 is looking to upgrade their QB position.

It looks like Buffalo is going to give it a go with Losman and Cleveland has to see what they have in Frye.

 
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TheFanatic

Footballguy
If the Texans CAN trade out of the first spot and DON'T, it would be the height of stupidity.
Andy Dufresne: Well it's a chance isn't it? How can you be so obtuse?Texans GM: What? What did you call me?

Andy Dufresne: Obtuse! Is it deliberate? Did you blow the game to get a better pick? Would you be stupid enough to use that pick on a QB when it's obvious you need O-Line help?

Texans GM: Dufresne, if you want to indulge this fantasy, that's your business. Don't make it mine. This meeting's over.

Andy Dufresne: Look, if it's the squeeze, don't worry. I'd never say what goes on in here. I'd be just as big an idiot as you if we took a QB or heaven forbid Bush first overall.

Texans GM: Don't you ever mention Bush to me again, you sorry son of a #####! Not in this office, not anywhere!

Andy Dufresne: I was just trying to rest your mind at ease, that's all.

Texans GM: Banned from the FBG Board! A Month!!

<Andy gets dragged away, kicking and screaming>

Andy Dufresne: What's the matter with you? Don't you see? It's my life! Don't you understand it's my life?

 

Nucular George

Footballguy
If the Texans CAN trade out of the first spot and DON'T, it would be the height of stupidity.
Andy Dufresne: Well it's a chance isn't it? How can you be so obtuse?Texans GM: What? What did you call me?

Andy Dufresne: Obtuse! Is it deliberate? Did you blow the game to get a better pick? Would you be stupid enough to use that pick on a QB when it's obvious you need O-Line help?

Texans GM: Dufresne, if you want to indulge this fantasy, that's your business. Don't make it mine. This meeting's over.

Andy Dufresne: Look, if it's the squeeze, don't worry. I'd never say what goes on in here. I'd be just as big an idiot as you if we took a QB or heaven forbid Bush first overall.

Texans GM: Don't you ever mention Bush to me again, you sorry son of a #####! Not in this office, not anywhere!

Andy Dufresne: I was just trying to rest your mind at ease, that's all.

Texans GM: Banned from the FBG Board! A Month!!

<Andy gets dragged away, kicking and screaming>

Andy Dufresne: What's the matter with you? Don't you see? It's my life! Don't you understand it's my life?
Wow."That's gold, Jerry. GOLD!"

 
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Andy Dufresne

Footballguy
If the Texans CAN trade out of the first spot and DON'T, it would be the height of stupidity.
Andy Dufresne: Well it's a chance isn't it? How can you be so obtuse?Texans GM: What? What did you call me?

Andy Dufresne: Obtuse! Is it deliberate? Did you blow the game to get a better pick? Would you be stupid enough to use that pick on a QB when it's obvious you need O-Line help?

Texans GM: Dufresne, if you want to indulge this fantasy, that's your business. Don't make it mine. This meeting's over.

Andy Dufresne: Look, if it's the squeeze, don't worry. I'd never say what goes on in here. I'd be just as big an idiot as you if we took a QB or heaven forbid Bush first overall.

Texans GM: Don't you ever mention Bush to me again, you sorry son of a #####! Not in this office, not anywhere!

Andy Dufresne: I was just trying to rest your mind at ease, that's all.

Texans GM: Banned from the FBG Board! A Month!!

<Andy gets dragged away, kicking and screaming>

Andy Dufresne: What's the matter with you? Don't you see? It's my life! Don't you understand it's my life?
Wow."That's gold, Jerry. GOLD!"
:thumbup: If you substituted in "David Carr" or "Random Texan's Fan" for Andy Dufresne, it might even be funnier.

 

Marvelous

Footballguy
It's WAY too early for mock drafts,
It's never too early for mock drafts.Here's the current draft order after week 12 and who I believe would be looking for a QB:

1. Houston

2. New York Jets

3. San Francisco

4. Green Bay

5. Tennessee

6. Arizona

7. New Orleans

8. Baltimore

9. Miami

10. Buffalo

11. Cleveland

12. Detroit

13. Oakland

14. St. Louis

15. Philadelphia

16. Denver (f/WAS)

17. Minnesota (depending on Culpepper's rehab)

18. New England

19. Tampa Bay

20. Atlanta

21. Pittsburgh

22. Kansas City

23. New York Giants

24. Dallas

25. San Diego

26. Chicago

27. Carolina

28. Jacksonville

29. Cincinnati

30. Seattle

31. Denver

32. Indianapolis

Here's a list of free agent quarterbacks (I'll emphasize my picks of who's actually worth something):

Anthony Wright UFA Ravens

Charlie Batch UFA Steelers

Chris Simms RFA Buccaneers

Chris Weinke UFA Panthers

Craig Nall UFA Packers

Damon Huard UFA Chiefs

Dave Ragone RFA Texans

Doug Flutie UFA Patriots

Drew Brees UFA Chargers - He'll be re-signed by the Chargers

Jamie Martin UFA Rams

Jeff Blake UFA Bears

Jeff Garcia UFA Lions

Jesse Palmer UFA 49ers

Jon Kitna UFA Bengals - Should be highly sought after.

Josh McCown UFA Cardinals

Ken Dorsey RFA 49ers

Kliff Kingsbury RFA Jets

Kurt Warner UFA Cardinals - Has shown there's gas left in the tank.

Sage Rosenfels UFA Dolphins

Seneca Wallace RFA Seahawks

Shane Matthews UFA Bills

Shaun Hill UFA Vikings

Tim Hasselbeck UFA Giants

Todd Collins UFA Chiefs

Ty Detmer UFA Falcons

Vinny Testaverde UFA Jet

There are two QBs that have the potential to be traded this offseason - Volek and Rivers.

So that gives me 4 QBs that teams would consider handing the reins over to.

If Young were to come out, where would he rank with these four in terms of desireability? I would guess somewhere in the middle. If I were a GM, I'd take experience over potential and my wishlist would be, in order, Kitna, Rivers, Young, Volek, Warner.

Any team currently in the 6-13 position would obviously have serious interest in drafting Young should he come out.

The difference in money between a top 5 pick and one outside that would be big. If Young comes out this year, I think he'd be outside. Next year, most likely top 5. I highly doubt he comes out this year.

Wow. Proof reading that shows that I only got 4 hours of sleep last night. Was my point coherent to anyone?
I think Patrick Ramsey and Aaron Brook may be available.
 

Andy Dufresne

Footballguy
I think Patrick Ramsey and Aaron Brook may be available.
True. And I would rank them Kitna, Rivers, Young, Brooks, Ramsey, Volek, Warner.I'm sure I'm ranking Volek and Warner lower than most, but Volek didn't look all that good in pre-season this year and Warner will be another year older next year.

 

Bloom

Moderator
It's WAY too early for mock drafts,
It's never too early for mock drafts.Here's the current draft order after week 12 and who I believe would be looking for a QB:

1. Houston

2. New York Jets

3. San Francisco

4. Green Bay

5. Tennessee

6. Arizona

7. New Orleans

8. Baltimore

9. Miami

10. Buffalo

11. Cleveland

12. Detroit

13. Oakland

14. St. Louis

15. Philadelphia

16. Denver (f/WAS)

17. Minnesota (depending on Culpepper's rehab)

18. New England

19. Tampa Bay

20. Atlanta

21. Pittsburgh

22. Kansas City

23. New York Giants

24. Dallas

25. San Diego

26. Chicago

27. Carolina

28. Jacksonville

29. Cincinnati

30. Seattle

31. Denver

32. Indianapolis

Here's a list of free agent quarterbacks (I'll emphasize my picks of who's actually worth something):

Anthony Wright UFA Ravens

Charlie Batch UFA Steelers

Chris Simms RFA Buccaneers

Chris Weinke UFA Panthers

Craig Nall UFA Packers

Damon Huard UFA Chiefs

Dave Ragone RFA Texans

Doug Flutie UFA Patriots

Drew Brees UFA Chargers - He'll be re-signed by the Chargers

Jamie Martin UFA Rams

Jeff Blake UFA Bears

Jeff Garcia UFA Lions

Jesse Palmer UFA 49ers

Jon Kitna UFA Bengals - Should be highly sought after.

Josh McCown UFA Cardinals

Ken Dorsey RFA 49ers

Kliff Kingsbury RFA Jets

Kurt Warner UFA Cardinals - Has shown there's gas left in the tank.

Sage Rosenfels UFA Dolphins

Seneca Wallace RFA Seahawks

Shane Matthews UFA Bills

Shaun Hill UFA Vikings

Tim Hasselbeck UFA Giants

Todd Collins UFA Chiefs

Ty Detmer UFA Falcons

Vinny Testaverde UFA Jet

There are two QBs that have the potential to be traded this offseason - Volek and Rivers.

So that gives me 4 QBs that teams would consider handing the reins over to.

If Young were to come out, where would he rank with these four in terms of desireability? I would guess somewhere in the middle. If I were a GM, I'd take experience over potential and my wishlist would be, in order, Kitna, Rivers, Young, Volek, Warner.

Any team currently in the 6-13 position would obviously have serious interest in drafting Young should he come out.

The difference in money between a top 5 pick and one outside that would be big. If Young comes out this year, I think he'd be outside. Next year, most likely top 5. I highly doubt he comes out this year.

Wow. Proof reading that shows that I only got 4 hours of sleep last night. Was my point coherent to anyone?
:goodposting: Im not sure Oakland would be looking for a QB - I think they're happy with Walter's development so far.

I also think Schaub and Garrard should be included in the trade target QBs, and as mentioned a few posts up, Brooks would be a target if the Saints want to part ways with him, as would Ramsey. Otherwise your assessment of the offseason QB market is spot on.

I agree that Young could greatly improve his draft status if he stays - he definitely has room to improve his draft position.

 

Andy Dufresne

Footballguy
I also think Schaub and Garrard should be included in the trade target QBs, and as mentioned a few posts up, Brooks would be a target if the Saints want to part ways with him, as would Ramsey. Otherwise your assessment of the offseason QB market is spot on.

I agree that Young could greatly improve his draft status if he stays - he definitely has room to improve his draft position.
Holy smokes, I can't believe I keep forgetting about Schaub. I would think the Jaguars would re-sign Garrard as he's more valuable to them as a backup than what I think he'd be worth in a trade involving picks, unless someone overpaid.With his play this year and Vick's injury history, I think it would cost another team dearly to acquire Schaub. Almost definitely a first rounder, maybe more. He looks like he may be worth it though. :shrug:

Of the QBs that could potentially be playing for another team next year, I think he's is the best.

I've watched Young play twice this year, once against Ohio State and the other against A & M and was underwhelmed.

 
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wannabee

Footballguy
It's WAY too early for mock drafts,
It's never too early for mock drafts.Here's the current draft order after week 12 and who I believe would be looking for a QB:

1. Houston

2. New York Jets

3. San Francisco

4. Green Bay

5. Tennessee

6. Arizona

7. New Orleans

8. Baltimore

9. Miami

10. Buffalo

11. Cleveland

12. Detroit

13. Oakland

14. St. Louis

15. Philadelphia

16. Denver (f/WAS)

17. Minnesota (depending on Culpepper's rehab)

18. New England

19. Tampa Bay

20. Atlanta

21. Pittsburgh

22. Kansas City

23. New York Giants

24. Dallas

25. San Diego

26. Chicago

27. Carolina

28. Jacksonville

29. Cincinnati

30. Seattle

31. Denver

32. Indianapolis

Here's a list of free agent quarterbacks (I'll emphasize my picks of who's actually worth something):

Anthony Wright UFA Ravens

Charlie Batch UFA Steelers

Chris Simms RFA Buccaneers

Chris Weinke UFA Panthers

Craig Nall UFA Packers

Damon Huard UFA Chiefs

Dave Ragone RFA Texans

Doug Flutie UFA Patriots

Drew Brees UFA Chargers - He'll be re-signed by the Chargers

Jamie Martin UFA Rams

Jeff Blake UFA Bears

Jeff Garcia UFA Lions

Jesse Palmer UFA 49ers

Jon Kitna UFA Bengals - Should be highly sought after.

Josh McCown UFA Cardinals

Ken Dorsey RFA 49ers

Kliff Kingsbury RFA Jets

Kurt Warner UFA Cardinals - Has shown there's gas left in the tank.

Sage Rosenfels UFA Dolphins

Seneca Wallace RFA Seahawks

Shane Matthews UFA Bills

Shaun Hill UFA Vikings

Tim Hasselbeck UFA Giants

Todd Collins UFA Chiefs

Ty Detmer UFA Falcons

Vinny Testaverde UFA Jet

There are two QBs that have the potential to be traded this offseason - Volek and Rivers.

So that gives me 4 QBs that teams would consider handing the reins over to.

If Young were to come out, where would he rank with these four in terms of desireability? I would guess somewhere in the middle. If I were a GM, I'd take experience over potential and my wishlist would be, in order, Kitna, Rivers, Young, Volek, Warner.

Any team currently in the 6-13 position would obviously have serious interest in drafting Young should he come out.

The difference in money between a top 5 pick and one outside that would be big. If Young comes out this year, I think he'd be outside. Next year, most likely top 5. I highly doubt he comes out this year.

Wow. Proof reading that shows that I only got 4 hours of sleep last night. Was my point coherent to anyone?
:goodposting: Im not sure Oakland would be looking for a QB - I think they're happy with Walter's development so far.

I also think Schaub and Garrard should be included in the trade target QBs, and as mentioned a few posts up, Brooks would be a target if the Saints want to part ways with him, as would Ramsey. Otherwise your assessment of the offseason QB market is spot on.

I agree that Young could greatly improve his draft status if he stays - he definitely has room to improve his draft position.
Also, many Buc fans think Griese will be released, thus adding him to the QB pool. He might not be a star, but still has more value than most on the list.
 

Andy Dufresne

Footballguy
Also, many Buc fans think Griese will be released, thus adding him to the QB pool. He might not be a star, but still has more value than most on the list.
Only because the list is crappy. Griese appeared to regress again this year, throwing 7 picks in 6 games. I think his days as a starter are done.
 

Jason Wood

Zoo York
Andy, nice analysis...Personally, I believe the Texans (or whoever has the 1st overall pick) have to take the player with the highest grade on their draft board. We get so caught up in need but great teams draft great players. If Leinart [or Young in your example] has a higher grade than Reggie Bush, Brick Ferguson, etc...then they should take him.

 

B-Deep

Footballguy
Andy, nice analysis...

Personally, I believe the Texans (or whoever has the 1st overall pick) have to take the player with the highest grade on their draft board. We get so caught up in need but great teams draft great players. If Leinart [or Young in your example] has a higher grade than Reggie Bush, Brick Ferguson, etc...then they should take him.
But I don't see any way that young leapfrogs clear to #1 talent on the board.
 

Andy Dufresne

Footballguy
Andy, nice analysis...

Personally, I believe the Texans (or whoever has the 1st overall pick) have to take the player with the highest grade on their draft board. We get so caught up in need but great teams draft great players. If Leinart [or Young in your example] has a higher grade than Reggie Bush, Brick Ferguson, etc...then they should take him.
But then it's a question of whether or not they KEEP that player, isn't it?I think the likeliest scenario is a repeat of the Eli Manning situation. Texans take Leinart and trade him for a kings ransom to a team willing to pay, as the Giants were to get Manning.

 

B-Deep

Footballguy
Andy, nice analysis...

Personally, I believe the Texans (or whoever has the 1st overall pick) have to take the player with the highest grade on their draft board. We get so caught up in need but great teams draft great players. If Leinart [or Young in your example] has a higher grade than Reggie Bush, Brick Ferguson, etc...then they should take him.
But then it's a question of whether or not they KEEP that player, isn't it?I think the likeliest scenario is a repeat of the Eli Manning situation. Texans take Leinart and trade him for a kings ransom to a team willing to pay, as the Giants were to get Manning.
Which could very well end up being a win win situation.
 

Andy Dufresne

Footballguy
Andy, nice analysis...

Personally, I believe the Texans (or whoever has the 1st overall pick) have to take the player with the highest grade on their draft board. We get so caught up in need but great teams draft great players. If Leinart [or Young in your example] has a higher grade than Reggie Bush, Brick Ferguson, etc...then they should take him.
But then it's a question of whether or not they KEEP that player, isn't it?I think the likeliest scenario is a repeat of the Eli Manning situation. Texans take Leinart and trade him for a kings ransom to a team willing to pay, as the Giants were to get Manning.
Which could very well end up being a win win situation.
Agreed, which it looks like it was for the Chargers/Giants.I thought the Giants gave up too much, but Eli is starting to look like the real deal and I guy you can really build around.

 
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Wadsworth

Footballguy
I also think Schaub and Garrard should be included in the trade target QBs, and as mentioned a few posts up, Brooks would be a target if the Saints want to part ways with him, as would Ramsey. Otherwise your assessment of the offseason QB market is spot on.

I agree that Young could greatly improve his draft status if he stays - he definitely has room to improve his draft position.
Holy smokes, I can't believe I keep forgetting about Schaub. I would think the Jaguars would re-sign Garrard as he's more valuable to them as a backup than what I think he'd be worth in a trade involving picks, unless someone overpaid.With his play this year and Vick's injury history, I think it would cost another team dearly to acquire Schaub. Almost definitely a first rounder, maybe more. He looks like he may be worth it though. :shrug:

Of the QBs that could potentially be playing for another team next year, I think he's is the best.

I've watched Young play twice this year, once against Ohio State and the other against A & M and was underwhelmed.
Garrard is already signed. He signed a multi-million $ multi-year deal before the season with a big signing bonus. But, the contract has an out whereby the Jags cap next year take no hit at all if he's traded after this season. The Jags will try and shop him. The third string(now second with Leftwich hurt) QB is Quinn Gray who the Jags believe is ready to be the back-up. There are already whispers around Jacksonville that the Jags want Reggie Bush in a bad way. But they also would like to get one of the better o-linemen in the draft. However it works out, there will very likely be some huge offers made by people wanting to move up in next years draft. It's hard to imagine the texans turning down a Vick/Eli type offer with so many needs.

 

Jason Wood

Zoo York
Andy, nice analysis...

Personally, I believe the Texans (or whoever has the 1st overall pick) have to take the player with the highest grade on their draft board. We get so caught up in need but great teams draft great players. If Leinart [or Young in your example] has a higher grade than Reggie Bush, Brick Ferguson, etc...then they should take him.
But then it's a question of whether or not they KEEP that player, isn't it?I think the likeliest scenario is a repeat of the Eli Manning situation. Texans take Leinart and trade him for a kings ransom to a team willing to pay, as the Giants were to get Manning.
Sure, but that's a dangerous game as you know. If Houston takes Leinart (who will be the top rated guy barring a big surprise), with the intention of offloading him, the have to be prepared to keep him if an offer doesn't bowl them over. It seems like every single year fans of the teams with the top picks all sing in unison [trade down for a bunch of picks], yet that's far far easier said than done.

 

Andy Dufresne

Footballguy
Garrard is already signed. He signed a multi-million $ multi-year deal before the season with a big signing bonus. But, the contract has an out whereby the Jags cap next year take no hit at all if he's traded after this season. The Jags will try and shop him. The third string(now second with Leftwich hurt) QB is Quinn Gray who the Jags believe is ready to be the back-up.

There are already whispers around Jacksonville that the Jags want Reggie Bush in a bad way. But they also would like to get one of the better o-linemen in the draft. However it works out, there will very likely be some huge offers made by people wanting to move up in next years draft. It's hard to imagine the texans turning down a Vick/Eli type offer with so many needs.
Interesting about Gerrard. Factor that in with this snippet from the "News" section today:
Jets Eye Stockpiling Picks

Dave Hutchinson, Newark Star-Ledger

Many NFL observers already have the Jets' draft plans figured out. If the team lands a top-three pick, the club will select USC RB Reggie Bush, if the junior comes out as expected, or Trojans QB Matt Leinart. But the Jets are seriously considering trading down to acquire additional picks because they have so many holes to fill, a team official told The Star-Ledger yesterday. The Jets plan to totally revamp their offense next season. Quarterback, running back, tackle, guard or center, fullback and perhaps tight end are the positions where they need help.
Jacksonville may end up in the 20's for the draft. Would packaging that pick with Gerrard to move up to #2 (the Jets' pick) be enough?
 

Andy Dufresne

Footballguy
It seems like every single year fans of the teams with the top picks all sing in unison [trade down for a bunch of picks], yet that's far far easier said than done.
It's easier this year than the last couple since this year's potential #1 overall picks are actually worth trading up for for the teams that would do so.
 

Andy Dufresne

Footballguy
This is fun. A great timewaster on a boring workday.If I'm the Dolphins GM, and Leinart is still there at the Jets' #2 pick, I offer my #9 and Ricky Williams for their #2 to pick Leinart. This assumes Ricky continues to play well as he has of late.Chambers, Booker, and McMichael finally have a real QB to throw to them. I still have Ronnie Brown. Things are looking up. :thumbup:

 
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B-Deep

Footballguy
This is fun. A great timewaster on a boring workday.

If I'm the Dolphins GM, and Leinart is still there at the Jets' #2 pick, I offer my #9 and Ricky Williams for their #2 to pick Leinart.

This assumes Ricky continues to play well as he has of late.

Chambers and Booker finally have a real QB to throw to him. I still have Ronnie Brown. Things are looking up. :thumbup:
now THAT is a trade that makes a lot of senseI like this scenario!

 

TheFanatic

Footballguy
It seems like every single year fans of the teams with the top picks all sing in unison [trade down for a bunch of picks], yet that's far far easier said than done.
It's easier this year than the last couple since this year's potential #1 overall picks are actually worth trading up for for the teams that would do so.
With last year fresh in out minds it's hard to realize that fact. San Fran wanted picks rather than Alex Smith. They didn't want to pay the huge bonus and had way too many holes to fill. This year people will be scrambling for Leinert and Bush and make it easier to move back....
 

Wadsworth

Footballguy
Garrard is already signed. He signed a multi-million $ multi-year deal before the season with a big signing bonus. But, the contract has an out whereby the Jags cap next year take no hit at all if he's traded after this season. The Jags will try and shop him. The third string(now second with Leftwich hurt) QB is Quinn Gray who the Jags believe is ready to be the back-up.

There are already whispers around Jacksonville that the Jags want Reggie Bush in a bad way. But they also would like to get one of the better o-linemen in the draft. However it works out, there will very likely be some huge offers made by people wanting to move up in next years draft. It's hard to imagine the texans turning down a Vick/Eli type offer with so many needs.
Interesting about Gerrard. Factor that in with this snippet from the "News" section today:
Jets Eye Stockpiling Picks

Dave Hutchinson, Newark Star-Ledger

Many NFL observers already have the Jets' draft plans figured out. If the team lands a top-three pick, the club will select USC RB Reggie Bush, if the junior comes out as expected, or Trojans QB Matt Leinart. But the Jets are seriously considering trading down to acquire additional picks because they have so many holes to fill, a team official told The Star-Ledger yesterday. The Jets plan to totally revamp their offense next season. Quarterback, running back, tackle, guard or center, fullback and perhaps tight end are the positions where they need help.
Jacksonville may end up in the 20's for the draft. Would packaging that pick with Gerrard to move up to #2 (the Jets' pick) be enough?
Unless Garrard looks really good in his time starting I doubt it would be enough because I think there will be more people looking to move up this year than people looking to trade down. If Garrard does play well then I'd think it would create a lot of interesting options. The Jags believe they are 1 or 2 playmakers away from as good as anyone. I expect at least one very bold move by them this off season.
 

Andy Dufresne

Footballguy
Unless Garrard looks really good in his time starting I doubt it would be enough because I think there will be more people looking to move up this year than people looking to trade down. If Garrard does play well then I'd think it would create a lot of interesting options. The Jags believe they are 1 or 2 playmakers away from as good as anyone. I expect at least one very bold move by them this off season.
So offer Gerrard and your #1 for Denny Green's #6 pick and take DeAngelo Williams. Add picks as necessary.
 

Andy Dufresne

Footballguy
With last year fresh in out minds it's hard to realize that fact. San Fran wanted picks rather than Alex Smith. They didn't want to pay the huge bonus and had way too many holes to fill. This year people will be scrambling for Leinert and Bush and make it easier to move back....
If I were the 49ers GM, I'd have tried something unprecedented. Rather than have to pay Alex Smith money he can't possibly earn (he's just not good enough), I'd have tried a couple of things.

1) I'd have offered an even swap for anyone in positions 2-15.

2) For 15+, offer the #1 for their #1 and either a #2 this year OR next.

Anything to free up the money I'd have to pay an average QB that I could use on free agents to improve other positions.

Some team needs to hire me. I'm a Theo Epstein in waiting.

 

Andy Dufresne

Footballguy
This is fun.  A great timewaster on a boring workday.

If I'm the Dolphins GM, and Leinart is still there at the Jets' #2 pick, I offer my #9 and Ricky Williams for their #2 to pick Leinart. 

This assumes Ricky continues to play well as he has of late.

Chambers and Booker finally have a real QB to throw to him.  I still have Ronnie Brown.  Things are looking up.  :thumbup:
now THAT is a trade that makes a lot of senseI like this scenario!
What's Jamal Lewis'/Chester Taylor's situation? You could see this same scenario involving the Ravens. Hey Jets. I'll give you Lewis and my #8 for your #2 so I can take Leinart.
 
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B-Deep

Footballguy
This is fun. A great timewaster on a boring workday.

If I'm the Dolphins GM, and Leinart is still there at the Jets' #2 pick, I offer my #9 and Ricky Williams for their #2 to pick Leinart.

This assumes Ricky continues to play well as he has of late.

Chambers and Booker finally have a real QB to throw to him. I still have Ronnie Brown. Things are looking up. :thumbup:
now THAT is a trade that makes a lot of senseI like this scenario!
What's Jamal Lewis'/Chester Taylor's situation? You could see this same scenario involving the Ravens. Hey Jets. I'll give you Lewis and my #8 for your #2 so I can take Leinart.
I don't like this as much. I know this sounds odd given ricky's dopiness (pun intended) but I am not nearly as comfortable with Jamal's future.But that's just me.

 

Bloom

Moderator
This is fun.  A great timewaster on a boring workday.

If I'm the Dolphins GM, and Leinart is still there at the Jets' #2 pick, I offer my #9 and Ricky Williams for their #2 to pick Leinart. 

This assumes Ricky continues to play well as he has of late.

Chambers and Booker finally have a real QB to throw to him.  I still have Ronnie Brown.  Things are looking up.  :thumbup:
now THAT is a trade that makes a lot of senseI like this scenario!
What's Jamal Lewis'/Chester Taylor's situation? You could see this same scenario involving the Ravens. Hey Jets. I'll give you Lewis and my #8 for your #2 so I can take Leinart.
Theyre both FAs.
 

Andy Dufresne

Footballguy
This is fun.  A great timewaster on a boring workday.

If I'm the Dolphins GM, and Leinart is still there at the Jets' #2 pick, I offer my #9 and Ricky Williams for their #2 to pick Leinart. 

This assumes Ricky continues to play well as he has of late.

Chambers and Booker finally have a real QB to throw to him.  I still have Ronnie Brown.  Things are looking up.  :thumbup:
now THAT is a trade that makes a lot of senseI like this scenario!
What's Jamal Lewis'/Chester Taylor's situation? You could see this same scenario involving the Ravens. Hey Jets. I'll give you Lewis and my #8 for your #2 so I can take Leinart.
Theyre both FAs.
Scratch that then.
 

Wadsworth

Footballguy
Unless Garrard looks really good in his time starting I doubt it would be enough because I think there will be more people looking to move up this year than people looking to trade down. If Garrard does play well then I'd think it would create a lot of interesting options. The Jags believe they are 1 or 2 playmakers away from as good as anyone. I expect at least one very bold move by them this off season.
So offer Gerrard and your #1 for Denny Green's #6 pick and take DeAngelo Williams. Add picks as necessary.
That's an option for sure. But I don't think it's that the Jags want a RB as much as they want Reggie Bush. At the 6 spot there might be a O-lineman or linebacker around they'd covet more than Williams. If they can't get Bush I'm not sure they want to pay to move up that high in the draft unless maybe to get Brick or Hawk(just a guess). TE(unless Reggie Williams converts), linebacker, and O-line are the biggest needs with RB and corner tagging along. If they can't get Bush they might just look to trade Garrard for as good a pick as they can get and fill a need. Also teams don't usually like to trade with divison mates, so the texans being in the mix doesn't help the Jags chances.

 

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